HUGE Bans in Pioneer, Modern AND Legacy.

Pioneer, Modern, Legacy and Vintage got hit with some bans and restrictions yesterday. And it's bout time.
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#nadusummer #mtgbans #modern

[@atevalve]

My "favourite" part of Nadu being turned into what it is is that the changes made it more powerful in Commander than the "too powerful" flash ability would have been.

[@boredmagala5701]

What do you mean?

[@atevalve]

@@boredmagala5701 Nadu is a CEDH Commander and extremely overpowered at casual tables. The original only triggered if your opponents targeted your stuff and gave your permanent spells flash, but there were concerns that giving all your permanent spells flash would be too powerful for a Commander. So they made it a technically nondeterministic combo enabler instead, which is possibly the worst thing for fun and power in the command zone.

[@dgreenlonghorn1]

More powerful as a commander. Much much weaker in the 99. The OG printing of Nadu would’ve 100% been broken in the 99 of every simic+ cEDH deck.

[@nkling02]

Psychic frog with baleful strix is ridiculous! I'm glad frog is still around

[@atevalve]

@@dgreenlonghorn1 That was the point though, having that ability in a simic commander was deemed too strong. We have a good 25 permanents that passively grant Flash, multiple of which do it without restriction based on card type. The only Commanders that do it without it being restricted to a single card type, historic spells, or artifacts and Dragons are Liberator and flip Heliod, which are restricted by being colorless and needing to flip respectively

[@B_a_h]

Nadu is what Alfred Hitchcock originally envisioned when he made "The Birds".

[@NarutoGeek411]

It's the original vision of Birdemic

[@MorosSilverwing]

The joys of Magic lore & peoples in the case of Nadu really came home to roost for me. How the Avens of Amonkhet are humans w/ bird heads. Every calling to ban the bird and referring to Nadu as a bird due to it's creature type (and rightly so) when the art of the card depicts one fit ass mfer with a toucan face. Magic is funny and silly.

[@julienrodriguez4439]

They banned Smuggler's Copter from pioneer and Reckoner Bankbuster from standard, both for being colorless cards that pushed out other card-advantage options

[@Skelegoblin]

Let's be fair, they unbanned Smuggler's. T1R needs to at least eb restricted to 1 though - not many Legendary cards combo with themselves like it does.

[@Kakerate2]

@@Skelegoblin horrible, terribad idea. ban or unrestricted. we don't do restricted in modern, and for a good reason.

[@ZakanaHachihaCBC]

@@Skelegoblinif it’s good enough to restrict it’s good enough to ban

[@AbyssAstronaut]

It's still baffling to me how they didn't think of adding this little line of text to The One Ring to limit the amount of copies to one in deck. Would still be a strong card, but better balanced and a massive win from a fluff standpoint.

[@kowabonga1263]

The one ring is fine. Best card against the one ring if you don't play it imo is disruptor flute. Opponent can't use it, must pay 7 to cast another, keeps getting damage every turn from the one ring trigger if it has counters and the flute is very very flexible, great against so many cards, has flash, is an aritact. If you cast it on response to activating they pay 4 mana for 1 card and 1 turn protection, it's like a cantrip fog for 4 mana, super bad

[@mattcroft]

Flavorful, but I think that just making the activated ability give you an emblem that says "lose one life" would have worked

[@dustinfindsrocks]

Totally agree with this

[@kylegonewild]

​@@mattcroftThere's already the precedent of "you may have any number of cards named blah blah in your deck" so the inverse "you may only have 1 blah blah in your deck" is perfectly reasonable, flavorful in this case, and gets around an official restricted list outside of Vintage.

[@philbuttler3427]

Cause they didn't want it to be fair? What about Modern legal sets makes you think they want them to be fair? They want nerds to spend money, not keeping the competitive integrity of Modern alive

[@shoeme00]

This ban announcement is fantastic for standard. being banned is really going to help the format. was so oppressive after being released this year. Thank you wizards

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Dont thank them, those pricks printed it lol

[@stickmanphil12345]

I've been playing mtg for 11 years, but I just started playing standard for the first time since 2017 with the release of bloomburrow. What do you think should be banned?

[@altrivotzck6565]

@@stickmanphil12345 Nothing. Not anything that has been found, yet, anyways. Standard is honestly in the best state it's been in years, and there's no problem that needs to be dealt with.

[@greglane334]

WotC need to stop making everything for commander ffs

[@Snow_Fire_Flame]

It wasn't that the current Nadu was designed for Commander. It was that old, unprinted Nadu would have been terribly unfun in Commander... which was true. (Raff is already annoying, and he's way weaker than unprinted Nadu.) Old Nadu did indeed need a nerf hammer, they just somehow got out their buff bat accidentally instead and didn't test the new version.

[@CasualKing21]

Somewhere in the multiverse Nadu was the MH3 Simic EDH face card for the deck

[@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303]

In another universe he was released in standard

[@CasualKing21]

​@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 🤢

[@stanislav328]

Vexing Bauble was restricted for the same reason chalice is. When every(nonbazaar) deck is playing 3-5 moxen+lotus, being able to play your moxen on turn 1, then follow it up with a bauble to shut off your opponents, made the advantage of going first even more lopsided than it already was. Vexing Bauble was also arguably even better in combo decks, because it shut off all your opponents good interaction, with Force of Vigor, Force of Negation, and Force of Will no longer working, while you're free to go off.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Doomsday didn't play Bauble because it's better to cast the spells that win the game. It was most popular in Lurrus Saga and Shops. In legacy, I play 4 copies of Bauble because it's free wins against blue decks, but totally different environment.

[@jhinds4315]

the easiest fix for the one ring, is to make it restricted in every format. 1. it will stop repeated ring after ring turns. 2. it will bring the price down on the card, because ppl just wont need playsets of the card. 3. flavor! it is called THE ONE RING! you should only get 1.

[@kylegood412]

I definitely like this idea. It's so legendary it can be the only copy in the deck.

[@BarsnBeats808]

It sounds cool on paper but i think actually applying that would just create an environment of 59 card decks. Cuz the One Ring is good enough for every deck to automatically include 1 copy

[@maxxlanglois]

​@BarsnBeats808 right now we live in a 56 cards environment. So I don't know what your point is really (no offense)

[@subzero308]

​@@maxxlangloisnot every deck plays TOR but if u could only have 1 copy I'm sure a lot more people would run it in their decks just because...

[@jhinds4315]

@@subzero308 its already the 3rd most played card in the modern format, 39% of all decks in modern play TOR, the other 2 cards above it are both in 43% of all modern decks.

[@denshitenshi]

I think I agree that Sorin was the right ban target. Keeping it meant the same problem next time a big vampire/changeling is printed. Vein ripper on its own is pretty fair.

[@ThymeTwister]

Vein Ripper for 6 mana is absolutely fine, honestly it probably won't see much play after Sorin is gone cause it's above Rakdos Midrange's curve.

[@xaverniedl293]

I would love to see some Pioneer content on this chanel

[@gabbathehut3235]

There most definitely is a vintage community talking about this stuff, and saga has been suspect nr1 for a very long time. The timing is a little unexpected but the decision certainly isn't. It's just that Wotc gave no hints it would finally happen

[@rsm014]

They did not play test cards from a PREMIUM set and used contractors instead of staffed personnel. WTH hasbro. Do better.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

It won't, even though it has the money. After all, doing so would cut into the exorbitant money that its top execs pay themselves like every other greedy company.

[@EdgarClay]

Land spam is my favorite mechanic 😂. Blue green land vomit is great. I dont even have to win.

[@GamerWannaB]

I would love for you to play penny dreadful. Its one of my favorite formats and its what got me to play mtgo and started my collection and its how I teach deckbuilding to new players as its effectively free with the free rental programs.

[@lostmarble540]

Nadu being designed as a commander card is wild, like it's the poster child of deck full of bad cards that do nothing without the commander, and I've yet to play against a Nadu deck but I imagine it makes for slow, solitaire games like what we've seen in modern

[@michaelmarsh1723]

I imagine it's just 'play through my deck until I land Thassa's Oracle and win because no deck left' right?

[@AM-we1es]

It's a big cEDH deck right now, so not really "do nothing", more of a "combo off until you find a 2-card win"

[@M0NK3Y42]

@@AM-we1es I've played against it multiple times. It's 100% a do-nothing deck. I've seen turns take 15-20 minutes. Equip shuko, get lands, play dudes, equip more shuko, get more lands, play more dudes, equip more shuko, etc. cedh is fine as a format. But I'd like to see what the format looks like without Sakashima, Thassa's Oracle, and now Nadu.

[@AM-we1es]

@@M0NK3Y42 it's not "a deck" it's a range of decks, from "baby's first combo deck" to "cutthroat tournament tryhard deck". ~~Not my fault your playgroup can't build a good deck~~

[@M0NK3Y42]

@@AM-we1es it was a cedh deck. I'm sorry wotc can't come up with a 3 drop simic card that isn't broken.

[@PatJamma]

I'm just saying, a CoCo D&T deck is creeping up in Pioneer now that Sorin and Amalia are banned

[@richardsmith9615]

Phoenix will still rule the roost while Treasure Cruise still victimises every midrange deck in the format.

[@justavictim9432]

​@@richardsmith9615U/W control and Angels put Phoenix in a box.

[@kxht]

This just reminds me of something about the amount of bans before 2020 vs the amount since the start of 2020.

[@Velgrauder]

I'm glad to see that someone notorious on the community is unilaterally agreering that EDH design on 60 card product is egregious. And the way people try to downplay this like it's the first time it happens. Hogaak, Atraxa, Field of the Dead, 4C Omnath, Kenrith, Golos. All format terrorizers that were designed as Commander plants. Very excited for that video.

[@cherry9787]

I'm curious, which Atraxa is it

[@boredmagala5701]

@@cherry97874 cmc wasn’t playable in modern, the new one was able to be blinked to draw a ridiculous amount of cards

[@florinalinmarginean1135]

I don't think designing for commander is the issue, since all of these cards are batshit insane in commander as well. Wotc just likes to push cards for the sake of it with little to no regard for the health of the game. All they do to design for commander is slapping the Legendary tag on creatures

[@boredmagala5701]

@@florinalinmarginean1135 that’s a pretty good point

[@m1gr3nA]

​@@florinalinmarginean1135 you forgot they also have to add ward x to them.

[@jonlangthorne7924]

I would love to see more Standard content. I appreciate that the Arena ecosystem is such high cost that it may be prohibitive to be playing loads of different decks but it was so refreshing to see standard content again

[@chitzkoi]

We will know we are old when Rhystic Studies makes a video about the Summer of the Bird or whatever

[@sephyrias883]

03:40 You should absolutely try Pioneer, but bring a bunch of graveyard hate, Treasure Cruise will be everywhere after this banlist.

[@bishop9699]

I've been playing Pioneer with my family, and we've been really enjoying it! It's a cheaper non-rotating format where we can use the majority of our cards (we only got into Magic a few years ago). It would be great to see you cover Pioneer: maybe take a few decks for a spin?

[@smartkaboose3806]

Waiting for one ring to be banned because i cant afford to add 4 to my deck. I don't play RCQs anymore because of it. I cant justify spending 400 dollars to upgrade a deck ive owned for 10 years.

[@RedJadeArt]

They need to stop making MH products. Every time they drop an MH set there is always an evoke cycle, a Yawgmoth, a Hogaak, an Urza’s Saga, a Nadu, something that completely warps the format around itself and makes the game unplayable if you don’t buy into it - and then it gets banned anyway. MH breaks the promise that the format is eternal by making the creep go so fast that anything you buy into will either be banned or redundant in a year. MH3 was probably closest with stuff like that blue merfolk who is a blood moon - stuff that makes you play a particular archetype in order to play with it - but the same set also has Nadu in it, which made all the good design choices get overlooked in comparison.

[@boontish1104]

But that's the whole point...

[@RedJadeArt]

@@boontish1104I don’t want to play an “eternal” format where my deck is completely redundant once a year because they put out something new and pushed that flips the whole meta over. Like at that point I’d rather play standard, it rotates less lol.

[@boontish1104]

@@RedJadeArt as long as you are buying new product. Wouldn't want the share holders to make less profit.

[@alpha34098]

Modern (and also Pioneer) was never classified as Eternal Format to begin with (the only ones that were classified as that are Legacy, Vintage and Commander). It was branded a Non-Rotating (which means there would be no yearly rotation like in Standard back then)

[@RedJadeArt]

@@alpha34098 that is entirely nitpicking. The whole point of having non rotating formats is so a deck you buy one week isn’t worthless next week.

[@thealanwrencher]

Happy to see Nadu go, as is everyone. But losing grief in modern was bummer for my 8 rack deck.

[@joelreschke6200]

Make "The One Ring" the only card restricted to one in modern and legacy. It would just make sense thematically.

[@AKPhilly]

You should definitely play more pioneer. The only pure format left. No UB nonsense or horizons crap.

[@DerekScottBland]

The problem isn't Nadu being designed for Commander, the problem is that there's no goddamned playtesting at WotC any more. The goal is to print overpowered lottery tickets that sell packs. They scrapped their real playtesting for a "is it fun to play" playtesting and the game has suffered for it.

[@Greg501-]

You must not have read the article where they talked about the MH3 playtest process.

[@xylerianproductions7245]

Nadu was around $.50 for the last three weeks the lottery argument really doesn’t work here bud.

[@florinalinmarginean1135]

@@xylerianproductions7245 The reason Nadu became so cheap after the first tournament results is because no one wants to get caught holding the bag: it was obvious it would get banned soon, so everyone sold their copies and no one wanted to buy into them right before a banlist. Same thing happened with Hogaak. Wotc clearly wants packs to act like lottery tickets (look at The One Ring), which they functionally are. But, sometimes, they are so insane to the point they print something everyone knows will get banned, so people won't invest

[@ericyang8474]

How do you play test across ten formats when you have the next however many hundred cards lined up in 6 weeks? Fast product means no time to think for designs means no time to play test while also trying to sell packs. It's all of the above.

[@BlueGriffin20]

@@ericyang8474 it’s not play testing over multiple formats, it’s that MH3 (and MH2) development and testing is rush mess. So when they tweaked Nadu for Commander, they didn’t have time to re test it enough to catch the issue.

[@scottcampbell9515]

How do you feel Eldrazi will be in Modern? Should we be concerned that those decks will step into the power vacuum in Modern? Also play Pioneer. Thalia is legal. She's your girl.

[@ZeraLord]

Felt like before MH 3, TOR was strong but not as omni present. I feel like there isn't a pure blooded aggro deck or any clock anymore other than storm combo, and maybe through the breach. Boros Energy is probably the closest we got, and even those guys are now running ring because just straight aggro is too unreliable.

[@ElLoboUK]

'We were trying to push it for Commander' is such a terrible argument when they put it in boosters and not restricted to just the commander product for modern horizons...

[@Vyctor__]

It's really obvious why The One Ring isn't getting the hammer - Wizards understands that it's probably a good idea to remove cards like Grief that just ask "does your deck play [basic land type]?" whereas The One Ring is colorless.

[@Mil89GR]

I will say this - I was one of the people that was playing Vampires in pioneer heavily and I am happy that Sorin is gone. Why? Because while I had a very VERY good winning streak , I noticed that lot of people that were not able to find answers to Vein Ripper and they were scooping almost immediately. That was certainly not fun. Also, Vein Ripper litteraly killed the sacrifice decks like cat oven sacrifice . Now at least we will be able to see some new decks. I am currently building a Golgari ,Ygra cat oven deck . Let's see how that plays out

[@metalplaysgames]

Grief isn't in an imprint product not counting bonus sheets where the one ring is still in print. The one ring is also not as powerful as Nadu

[@RowanNagy97]

Not Dead After Alling (or similar) Grief is card even overall (not in the "cards in hand" sense, in the "count all your cards"), not card disadvantage, making it even worse/better (depending on which side of the board you're on) then you said it to be - the evoked Grief is a 2-1 (you lose 2, your opponent loses 1), but the Not Dead After All is a 2-1 in YOUR favor (you "gain a card" by saving the Grief on the field; your opponent loses another card; you only spent one additional card)

[@darkbreaker9767]

Now if only the Commander rules committee would do... *anything*.

[@boredmagala5701]

There’s so many problems ;-;

[@JasonOshinko]

Such as?

[@cherry9787]

If someone plays Nadu Commander then just 3v1. Automatic archenemy

[@Sicktoid]

​@@JasonOshinko The Commander RC has said that they want the banlist to reflect what kind of cards are deemed socially acceptable in the environment of a casual format. But IMO the current list doesn't really reflect that at all. Trying to figure the format out through the banlist would lead me to believe that Commander is all about 2-card combos, fast mana, broken tutors and mass LD, since some of the most infamous examples of those types of cards remain completely untouched. And I think that's basically the opposite of what vast majority of people want Commander to be. Not only is the presence or absence individual cards on the banlist questionable, the entire philosophy of the list is flawed. House bans aren't really an option for large chunk of the playerbase. Half the time I play Commander for example, there's at least one dude that I've never seen before present in the game. Even more difficult if you play at conventions etc.

[@cablefeed3738]

​@Sicktoid I don't care. If they ban more cards They're gonna ban stuff I like, which I am against. I enjoy commander, as is, in fact, they should unban some stuff that I like.

[@retrace3227]

I've said elsewhere, there's next to zero chance of TOR catching a ban. The whole 1/1 version has made it not just a poster card for a set, but arguably tied only with Black Lotus for Magic's own brand recognition. It's more likely that it'll see a universes within reprint (probably as the mirari), and *then* maybe catch a ban once they can ban "the mirari" as opposed to "banning the one ring".

[@nickgertler]

I really would like to see you try out some more Pioneer. I know the format gets a bad rap, but it’s become a powerful eternal format that truly doesn’t rotate and isn’t at the mercy of Horizons. Doesn’t hurt that it’s a lot of fun, too.

[@uruigi]

Let's talk about more cards that 1. People hate with a passion, and 2. Aren't played as much now Let's ban: Blood Moon, Teferi Time Raveler, Force of Negation, Karn the Great Creator, Any Tron land, Leyline of the Guildpact, Yawgmoth, Wrenn and Six... Banning for "the fun of the game" and no other reason is bullshit.

[@ajaxender12]

I think it's probably correct that there are external pressures to keep The One Ring around, but I also think their assessment is correct; the card extends games and props up fair strategies. Of course the exact problem with the card is that it doesn't require or influence you to be playing fair, it just lets you do more of whatever it is you're doing. I like to think they've recognized a need for cards that impact games like this, but future designs should be more niche (but less niche or game-warping than the Necros, say). (Though, the other idea of restricting The One Ring in Modern seems both effective and flavorful)

[@parasocialist]

Pioneer changes are weird because I think its a good start but phoenix is gonna dominate. I'm biased tho because I haven't gotten to play due to work and I was excited to play Amalia at this weeks fnm... hopefully i can get a backup deck built quickly lol

[@tcgdarren5865]

Waste Not is so back

[@parasocialist]

@@tcgdarren5865 true lol. I'm hoping to build a mardu sacrifice list that runs caretakers talent now that vein ripper doesn't need to be a part of it

[@beneej]

Phoenix might not dominate as much as you think. Players should expect it to be the best deck, leading to targeted hate. And it's a relatively easy deck to hate out. Plus it opens up room for lotus and waste not which like the matchup

[@nathanielb5659]

i think grief caught the ban because of legacy catching grief as a ban, i saw a short recently saying that players tend to fall back to things they know are good or have been good when times are uncertain. players seeing grief banned in legacy but legal in modern turns into ok well we should be playing a lot of grief since we can and it's banned in legacy. combine that with other factors like duskmourn upcoming that might push grief even harder and the portion of players with resentment to the horizon's sets gives a solid line for banning it

[@Prince_Smugarina]

The One Ring not being banned is likely cause there is clear ways around it, and Bloomburrow even printing a few answers.

[@MrZippidydoodahh]

Time for a return of mono red tron!

[@tcsmagicbox]

Maybe I'll finally make a Nadu deck for commander.

[@Mothringer]

You’ve got vexing bauble backwards. In practice it’s even better for protecting a combo than it is for preventing them.

[@PleasantKenobi]

That's very fair - I hadn't considered how good it was at shutting down moxen, or how it protects combo against FoW, Daze, FoN.

[@Mungnum]

Tbh, think The One Ring was a bigger problem for modern than Nadu but I don’t think they’ll ever ban that

[@vividwavers]

i have thoughts about Michael's article but i guess it will have to wait for the separate Nadu video

[@dashvash5440]

I'm getting back into constructed regardless but it's nice that the cards I see being the biggest issue (from creators) are out. Also I am aiming to play modern and Nadu seemed to be so strong I'd have to consider playing it. Will be fun to see how the shake up goes. I do love Psychic Frog style cards. Probably gonna play boros energy because I need to get a hang of time management on mtgo.

[@robnotwicz7002]

Psychic Frog is already oppressive in Legacy, it's going to be in almost every deck for the next few months until it hopefully gets banned.

[@Bumbleton]

I'm probably one of the few who put Nadu only in the 99 (Kraj deck), and it won the game on the spot. Ooops

[@jorritdriessen5728]

As a rogues player in Pioneer, I'm in danger against 40% Phoenix and 30% Mono Green

[@steffanreichenbach3124]

I don´t get it, why all people are going to dam the ´one ring´ ?? My experience comes mostly from Arena and there the ring could be a little nasty, if 3 or all 4 comes shortly after on another, but normaly i welcome it on the board, because on abuit 50% of it´s uses it kills outright it´s user or bring him nicely down to loose !

[@arandombard1197]

Everybody could see how busted Nadu was obviously going to be, I just don't understand how WOTC couldn't see this.

[@Sorran87]

I agree completely. WOTC needs to be more heavy-handed. I'd rather have them ban too many cards than too few

[@RazgrizAce67]

Good bans, generally they listened and course corrected. One Ring probably should have caught it too but double Grief turn 1 is so much worse than Ring.

[@Kratosauron0]

Paper Pioneer! Love pioneer, and it's lower + more affordable power level

[@Fierlyt]

Well, the thing that pushed me away from Modern was Grief specifically. I just didn't want to play a format where I could be force mulligan-ed to 5 on turn 1 and be facing a menace body. The One Ring doesn't phase me in the same way, I like when my opponents do something cool as long as it doesn't create a non-game on turn 1 before I can play a land and actually interact. I don't find it that odd that Grief got hit and The One Ring didn't... But I haven't played much other than commander since MH2, and Grief getting banned has me considering Modern again. Maybe if I do, I'll share your opinion on this.

[@2rare2die26]

One ring should have been restricted to 1 per deck. It would fix the unhealthy play pattern and it would be a flavor win.

[@eltonwebb5530]

Definitely try out Pioneer! Without Sorin and Amalia, there is a lot more room for diversity in the format

[@Rogue0DK]

I just started playing Arena. Id love to see more Alchemy on this channel. Especially a decent angels deck as I was told mono white suffered with Bloomsburrow. And I cant seem to find a good list of one. Also, while I enjoy your content I do wish you would slow down. You sound like KZbin charges uploads by the second. lol.

[@Lionbug]

Also, OBVIOUSLY The One Ring should be restricted to 1/deck

[@FreshPrinceOfBelA17]

Yes play pioneer and you should try my 2 list. One won an rcq this year and another won last year

[@RisottoNero-z1w]

Wizards is confident they can still monetize the one ring before banning.

[@brennanclement8582]

Been thinking about reentering modern since the bird is gone, curious to see how the meta shakes out

[@cherry9787]

Maybe ruby storm or boros energy

[@51gunner]

@@cherry9787 Ruby Storm is apparently vulnerable to some sideboard pieces. It is potentially impressive but I think it won't put up the winrates post-sideboard to be dominant. Boros Energy seems quite strong, I'd probably build that before I built Ruby Storm, it's probably a good choice. The coolest deck I see out there is Necrodominance/Soul Spike; it put up good results even through the Nadu Summer (2/8 of Top 8 alongside 5 bird decks).

[@cherry9787]

@@51gunner I wanted to try and build a necrodominance deck but after being basically a pauper player all my life, I'm not sure if I even like modern lmfao Fair point on Ruby Storm. Maybe side pieces to fight the side pieces? I'm sure we'll know by next protour

[@51gunner]

​@@cherry9787 Yeah, Modern isn't the format for me either. I try to keep up on what's going on in general, but I'm more of a Limited fan anyway. I guess we share an interest in Common cards! Haha.

[@Shrimp4Gura]

4 months isnt too bad, at least they will hit something if its too big a problem. While yugioh players have been waiting 5 months for a banlist update and konami only told us "by the end of August" and we're still waiting

[@_Ve_98]

I don't mind that they inject cool and powerful things. I'd rather they take risks than make interesting designs. The problem is that they need to understand that doing that comes at a cost. That you need to properly playtest things and be ready to ban cool cards in mass when you fuck up. You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want to push boundaries without constantly making old things obsolete you need to be banhammer happy.

[@piralos1329]

Tbh I think banning Amalia here is the right call because she has the potential to break if another explore or descend payoff is printed? Where as wildgrowth walker potentially means new explore cards still have the potential to create a density to make an explore deck potentially viable!! Exploring multiple times and gaining 3, 6, 9+ life is genuinely p impactful at times!!

[@thepieguyinthesky2363]

I am so happy I have never played against a nadu deck, and I never will. It was banned unspokenly by everyone there.

[@sathrielsatanson666]

Lol, it's crazy that they make 4 months pause before next bans. I empathize with MtG players.

[@dustinfindsrocks]

The One Ring needs to be restricted. Not banned. Having multiples seems to be the biggest issue with the card. That would be some on point flavor as well. I've been wanting them to make restricted a regular mechanic similar to relentless rats or that new Templar from AC since the 90s lol

[@alpha34098]

That would be the most logical. In fact many cards wouldn't be needed to be banned if we actually restricted them instead. There would be many that would still need to be banned (Like Nadu, Hogaak, KCI, Lurrus and Yorion) but many would be better restricted (like the One Ring, Treasure Cruise, Smuggler's Copter/Reckoner Bankbuster to say a few)

[@jfreezee3690]

O7 for grief. At least I'm not sitting on like 20 of them.... oh wait, I am.

[@dragade101]

I'm curious about the Nadu ban. It played very differently in play testing. Like late in testing was the card was changed (to how it was printed as). So late that they 'couldnt properly test new Nadu'. If you write a card to be powerful and pushing at boundaries vs writing a card to be safe and decent: I would think you kind of know if this card is pushed or not. (I’m talking about the differences between Orcish Bowmasters vs Ledger Shredder) The devs should work on two wordings for more complex / pushed cards. Give a comprehensive test group at least two (2) printings and they can make comments if they prefer printing A or printing B. Or they would rather make some change to a version (mainly because a card might too pushed if released as is). Its hard to believe WotC cannot have indie contractors who review cards through a Standard, EDH, Modern, Legacy and Vintage lens. They sign NDAs and even do this remotely so WotC is getting a greater variety of players testing cards. Cause it would seem possible to have R&D, 1 or 2 rounds worth to understand if a “whenever” clause is cracked or fair for all intended formats.

[@TripppAU]

One Ring should be restricted to one copy in all formats for both balance and flavour reasons.

[@Lionbug]

Gotta use the other Grief art, it's SO good

[@damien4197]

Got to say, given I can make it to like 1 big Modern tournament a year, love that this is two cards my Living End deck has caught strays on since the last one... even better to hear them touting Mono Black and then hitting grief? Anyway... less and less reason to play.

[@justavictim9432]

The One Ring is annoying in Modern but there is no real great way to cheat it in. With Grief, you could turn 1 it with an untapped white source and ephemerate and now you have 3 for 3'd them while leaving behind a 3/2 menace beater. There is no t0 interaction to stop the process. Grief kills mulligan decision making and effectively ends the game t1-2

[@amaplelog3101]

One ring should have gotten banned before grief imho. Maybe it's just my local LGS meta but I was one of 2 people running Grief for 4 months prior to this ban at my LGS, everyone else was izzet murktide or the pioneer explorer deck with the card that just got banned form it (legendary white+black), or boros burn and a few naya zoos. One or two merfolk decks as well.

[@fwmlp]

Restricting The One Ring would be awesome and also fit to the IP it comes from

[@EdBurke37]

I really believed that Nadu wasn't meant for Commander because it came across as too powerful for most casual formats while not really being strong enough for cEDH. Clearly I was wrong.

[@FrankPalombo]

Making artifact blast legal besides the one ring will help quite a bit.

[@marlowehansen]

I only play commander and I hate when wizards designs cards for commander in non-commander specific sets. If you want to have commander sets do it, that’s great. If you want to have commander decks along with standard and modern sets, that’s fine. But let the cards in modern or standard sets fall into their place within commander on their own.

[@mattcroft]

errata the Ring to give you a burden emblem? Balance errata works for Arena/YGO 😂 (not sure this would be enough of a nerf! Add "this damage can't be prevented"?)

[@duo317]

Modern horizons was a mistake, it's a shortcut for designing a standard environment where powerful cards aren't that good

[@MusicoftheDamned]

Let us be "thankful" that Nadu was only a rare instead of a mythic rare or I could easily see WotC having thrown Shuko under thus bus while excuses to keep Nadu around even longer like The One Ring.

[@timw9745]

FoW, daze and brainstorm are legacy staples that are overpowered but define the format. Legacy wouldn’t be legacy without it.

[@64lundyco]

I'd love to see some legacy and/or pioneer content

[@jensjohansen8050]

Modern card printings just convinces me further that Cube is the best format of magic. Play how you want😋

[@IAmebAdger]

I think the argument to ban Grief is that Grief results in a lot of tiny-hand games where neither player gets to play Magic for a while.

[@Danielmontalvo88]

Legacy was my main thing for many many years.. but I'm out and not coming back. I don't want to have to run 4 copies of Ronald McDonald, Spiderman and the Auryn from Neverending story in my deck to stay competitive.

[@SawedOffLaser]

Sorin getting the axe has done wonders for Pioneer. At one point Rakdos Vamps made up over 30% of the meta game on its own. It needed to go.

[@Duskraven377]

Can't ban the LOTR moneymaker. Rebell's video said it best I think.

[@SurlyDuff814]

Absolutely ridiculous they are using Commander as a lens when designing cards for Modern. The doomsayers were right, Commander is eating Constructed Magic alive.

[@cherry9787]

Commander players hate the "Built for Commander" cards too. Deflecting swat is a prime example

[@feritperliare2890]

​@@cherry9787 designed for commander is more like designed to terraform commander, no more cool slow combos just make broken cards, make 1 card combos. Its horrific

[@MusicoftheDamned]

As one such doomsayer, I don't like being right as with most doomsaying. The whole "desiging for Commander" aspect was always a red flag of sorts given Commander originally started as a format for cards that hardly saw play, making that design philosophy pretty much paradoxical by definition if they were planning to stick the modest power level anyway...which they unsurprisingly didn't, even as far back as stuff like Derevi and Kaliaa and Edgar Markov the Younger. It's basically just been an excuse for "power sprint" since the game has been past "power creep" for ages at this point.

[@jondorsey2043]

With some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

[@agary9094]

The ban philosophy in pioneer about axing Sorin, is the complete anthesis of how they approach legacy.

[@RisottoNero-z1w]

I find all this funny, because Nadu is also insufferable in commander.

[@05basTi]

Cards should hardly ever be designed with commander in mind. Commander interactions are already busted as it is because thousands of players are brewing with almost all cards that were ever printed. No design team has the capacity to keep all these interactions in mind. So once you make something specifically good in commander (or any eternal format really) it tends to run out of control.

[@huddleaw]

Im just sad about the state of Magic. I quit modern after MH2 because of the free spells and the skyrocketing price of the format. Now the Magic IP is just straight up trash and seeing the set previews for next year made it worse in my mind. Wizards made me apathetic and with the amount of time and money I spent on the game, I feel like I'm the exact type of person they wouldnt want to leave. Sadly though, I'm pretty much checked out. Edit: Also, I remember when Grief was spoiled and R&D came out and said "We know this is good with Ephemerate. We tested it." Damn, that aged like milk 😂.

[@blaaaarrrrgMTG]

I feel like the difference between Grief and One Ring justifying the ban is that Grief robs players of agency. It's irrelevant what pile of cards you even brought if they get the scam draw on the play, there is no bouncing back from that

[@kowabonga1263]

These guys release the set, celebrate, close the office, go on vacation, no fucks given until September 😂