HUGE SMASH BROS CHEATING SCANDAL EXPOSED

As new technologies are developed for Super Smash Bros., there is a chance that cheating could be on the rise too. All of our fears happened when a player was able to successfully enter multiple events using a character that they modified to take down the competition. Here is how it happened.
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[@The4gotNdeath]

Hbox - “I woulda figured it out in 1 tournament” I hereby issue a coinbox challenge where we have a coinbox with 1 player using mods/cheats and hbox has to figure out who

[@jebus4261]

i think it would be pretty easy if he knew someone was cheating, I feel like the main reason he got away with it for so long is because nobody expected for someone to cheat like that

[@swank8508]

if he knows to look it would be insanely easy to tell imo, this only happened because nobody even considered it

[@Michael-hc2hp]

This shit wasn't even subtle, though. Like those nairs hitting Fox when there's still space between them. And that stupid d tilt hitbox, and the absurdity of the percent the f smash would kill at. This was not subtle at all, and presumably people were watching because "Oh shit, there's a Pichu beating all of our players." That's something people wanna see, and then you see like that f smash kill on the ICs at like 13% or something

[@Padgriffin]

@@Michael-hc2hp I think part of the reason is that absolutely nobody had seen a decent Pichu in play so they just chalked it up to bad matchup knowledge over just cheating

[@Michael-hc2hp]

@Pad Griffin But even still, mainly that f smash. That is definitely the biggest giveaway. I mean, that kills at like a little above Rest percent

[@Crazybawrks]

Respect to 4% winning against a cheater in a fair game

[@pedropatricio2074]

You know you're good when you win against a cheater 🗿

[@jrodd13]

Mad respect indeed but most cheaters are so shit that top players in games are generally able to still beat them

[@EthanALS]

I wonder what tier that modded pichu would even be

[@jrodd13]

@Ethan Skufca the comical size of the nair and up-air and f-Smash killing all characters at 25% while also being bigger alone would make him a top tier, it's like rest without the falling asleep part basically, he's also no longer a lightweight which was one of his main downfalls

[@boryontotheleader2328]

Fair. Yeah.

[@MrDVNNY]

“Did you lose a tournament set or money match against Chaos’ Super Pichu? You may be entitled to compensation…”

[@tuff_lover]

Ah, Better Call Saul.

[@tacitteyo]

Should have named it Macho Pichu

[@homedepotindustrialfan936]

You win

[@thellewdude]

THAT'S WHAT I SAID!😂😂😂

[@freedomdst]

what about machu pichu?

[@trouncerrredits]

@@freedomdst that's the reference

[@RamadaArtist]

Bruh...

[@shinobiqueenv6583]

"How did NOBODY call him out" My theory is that Smash players legit trust each other to not cheat. Like, it's a community that truly loves the game, why would their first assumption be cheating and not "damn this kids good".

[@DiamonDust]

I like this wholesome answer Edit: Also keep in mind Pichu was a very uncommon character, and he wasn't playing against many top pros who would be more likely to immedietly notice. Second, several people DID notice but without any hard evidence someone would be very likely to question if they were just imagining things or not. I mean, who would have guessed that someone would ever do something like this? It's crazy.

[@hatsunemiku8007]

i think its more that you wouldnt expect someone to cheat IN PERSON

[@YOSSARIAN313]

It was also the first and only time someone did this. Keep in mind this was before modern slippi online play so very few people knew what pichu could do because no one plays him

[@kek-senpai243]

Look at the how Pichu plays. It's obvious he was cheating.

[@nachot6592]

I like how native you are. You seen like a nice person. But no; it is because this cheating method was SO over the top that no one even thought it was possible.

[@kaja3932]

If I ever end up cheating, I want to be the guy that goes all out It's not worth getting caught unless I'm getting caught inhaling the entire stage with Kirby in grand finals

[@brok3n_806]

nobody's gonna let you get that far unless you get to grand finals fairly lol

[@verde7595]

@@brok3n_806 be subtle about it and then turn it ALLLLL the way up

[@kaja3932]

@@verde7595 exactly they won't know that my Ness can absorb players if I use Captain Falcon every single match before grand finals game 5 I'd just have to be careful around Axe, his Pikachu could evolve before I want it to and ruin everything

[@lazypaladin]

All out, but subtle. _Everything normal till Down Tilt covers stage, does 70% and launches at a 57° Angle. Active Frame 5 and Invulnerable till Frame 75._ Opponent: *_... Huh?!_*

[@stepheneppinger2284]

Bowser flamethrower spawns rathalos for every second it’s active

[@msclarinet89]

Not sure what's more impressive in this scandal: that no one caught this real time or that chaos was able to play every tournament set on his setup as opposed to anyone else's

[@Delightfully_Bitchy]

*"impressive"*

[@Spoooob]

As an Ohioan. SurfsUpHailSatan is our traditional greeting.

[@capitaljames6480]

As an Ohioan, I can confirm, this is tradition

[@user-mk9lb3uh1y]

As an non Ohioan, I can confirm that I don't know about Ohio

[@Gamesmarts194]

As another Ohioan, I can confirm that's only true if you're not Christian. Because Ohio billboards will tell you that you need Jesus.

[@SmolAndAngyyy]

Wow that’s suhs

[@averagemiddleman1203]

Only in Ohio

[@pedropatricio2074]

Bro thinks we not gonna notice the f-smash killing at 18% 💀💀

[@Baggerz182]

repent to Christ God

[@cloverleaf5645]

Surprised you haven’t covered this yet. This story goes crazy. 💀

[@Baggerz182]

repent to Christ God

[@mezzosoup]

Nah man. He just had a good gaming chair. Idk what to tell you

[@pedropatricio2074]

He just had the better controler 💀💀

[@legoboy7107]

He was just from Ohio. They're built different there. 💀

[@pedropatricio2074]

@@legoboy7107 Yeah, built like a skinwalker 💀💀

[@GabrielHodge]

Probably had a good controller too no soreness from his melee pichu sessions

[@NEU_Mars]

I mean most people don't know what Pichus moves are. Plus like you said cheating was so unheard of back then. Its easy to spot looking back, but I can see why it wasnt immediately obvious at least at first.

[@YOSSARIAN313]

With slippi they do. Cheating this blatantly wont be possible today especially if there is a twitch audience.

[@gameboyn64]

What was truly amazing is that he was able use his own setup through out the whole tournament.

[@Delightfully_Bitchy]

Imagine if Chaos just randomly matched up with Mew2King. Dude would probably die a thousand deaths before he got to the chair: Game Starts. Chaos: * Maybe he won't notice. * Jason: *WHAT?!* Chaos: *Fuck.*

[@Lunchboxen]

Lmaoo😂😂 Jason would know right away

[@adamspeiser6449]

The master of frame data and hitboxes could look at one move and call him out for cheating. M2K would have made this a very short story for sure.

[@Oh-Ben]

Anyone with years of knowledge would know, this could only happen in a new scene.

[@Delightfully_Bitchy]

@@Oh-Ben True, but not every veteran would rat him out instantly: Mang0 would just laugh and keep playing.

[@lagg1e]

M2K immediately pauses at 3 seconds: Your Pichu fell too fast from the starting platform. Pichu doesn't fall that fast.

[@ExSuPiO1]

I wonder if this could be prevented by adding a simple rule that prohibits players to play their sets on their own consoles. Chaos playing ALL his matches on his own console and even debating with Misty about which console to play on were immediate red flags for me.

[@TrixyTrixter]

Its way better even tho it could lead to teams of cheaters who just play on each others consoles. But again, way beter than nothing.

[@laggardson5922]

Of course it happened in Ohio.

only in ohio

[@ScatLuigi]

@ infant

[@johnedwarddowney]

OI4C

@@ScatLuigi ok "User"

[@ShyKirby]

@@Gold_Gecko 😐

[@eeveewithcoffee9554]

Honestly Pichu not dying from that up smash in the first game, I would have called BS because I think jigglypuff would have died there. 79% lived from a Fox up smash

[@bi3lmobile2023]

I like the jigglypuff's "pow!" voice as the censor of bad word

[@sharkronical]

It's "puff!"

[@elnino8264]

I find it funny that the chat was saying that Hbox indirectly created super Pichu

[@Oh-Ben]

Almost everyone in my old scene had good low tiers so when we saw the footage we could tell, but that's the thing, during this era there was a lot of new players that hadn't explored Melee beyond their main.

[@MilkMan-pk2rc]

Guy was cheating and still lost to 4% that just shows how nice 4% really is

[@Dexwin09]

If you're gonna cheat. Lose a few matches. Just like at school, dont go from a C to a 90-100 out of the blue, keep it at 84-87%.

[@doq]

"pichu-puff is not even a real matchup" 💀💀💀

[@lysanderxx1664]

A couple things that truly amaze me: 1. No one thought this was wrong on-screen at all. 2. The guy was ALWAYS able to have HIS Wii U used for matches for so long. 3. surfs up. hail satan

[@ItsAZues]

At some point in their practice, they said "screw this, I'm cheating".

[@SuperHalo-rn4rr]

What makes the whole thing even funnier to me is that as a kid playing melee, the blue goggles Pichu costume was my favorite to use for him.🤣

[@kiraslight845]

What was even more crazy it wasn't just the outfit on pichu, you also had to be p4.

[@RedMooseJesus]

My favorite instance of cheating was that Phantom Thieves player in coinbox

[@YURTZYN42]

Honestly if pichu's weight was buffed I'm surprised the Fox players wouldn't notice like "isn't my shine supposed to knock him down? He can't possibly be CCing ALL of them.."

[@tlk777]

I'm trying to figure out how he got all these matches played on HIS setup lmao

[@harryf9885]

Imagine if instead of this guy taking one of the worst characters in the game and making him the best by far, he just made his fox like 20% heavier, 10% bigger hitboxes, 5% more knockback. I wonder how long it would have taken for him to get caught?

[@shaan__real]

Im happy this dudes getting more recognition. Backlog of videos is insane

[@Rev251]

The problem with the macro idea and it being on the same frame every time is that you can program in psuedo randoms to make it seem more like human input.

[@neondouble_]

Imagine being that much of a cheater and still losing

[@twistedvtuber9894]

I'm still hung up that a player was named "Surf's Up Hail Satan"

[@Heartache1470]

"Surf's Up Hail Satan" is an absolutely goated tag 😂

[@DanielCruz-tn5jg]

this was probably one of my favorite videos you have ever made! more of this!

[@hollisshaffer1261]

It might be that nobody noticed because nobody plays Pichu, so nobody knew that it wasn't normal Pichu.

[@sinned5504]

surfsuphailsatan had me dyin on the bus, could not hold in my laughter

[@MarkSoupial]

you just know the OH scene was playing on the fuzziest CRTs to not see those hitboxes

[@carlosMendoza-ct3wr]

Asumsaus mentioned this case in his Cheating in melee video right in the end, even showing pichu in jail

[@jamesmkay]

The controller situation is next I feel. They’re so easy to mod too

[@blaquephyrekendra1779]

5:59-6:00 There was no contact I don't play melee but I can't believe no one noticed that in the moment

[@grambottle033]

13:12 and that's when sheet hit the fan ... I'll see myself out now.

[@ryan_ford522]

Never seen the vid until now, but heard a lot of detail from the Ohio locals when they used to bring me out to their tourneys

[@ixekun]

This player had been known to cheat in many other games before even going to Melee, he was still caught cheating in other games well past Melee and made a drama about it being about himself and how "no one" accepts him anymore for having cheated. He was caught cheating once more in COD or Halo? some of his school buddies came forth on facebook at the time this happened and mentioned how he had cheated in Counter Strike 'for fun' against his own friends consistently.

[@YoutubeCommonman_Totas]

Axe with Super Pichu would be a sight to see

[@pedropatricio2074]

That pichu Nair is bigger than cloud Nair in smash 4 💀💀

[@Duskoi]

I'd cheat like this for trolling purposes.

[@sub-harmonik]

well now I know to randomize the frame inputs in my macros. thank you

[@SethRietdijk]

this makes me wanna make a hack so blatant, like a marth that can grab the opponenent no matter where they are, and have it have the max possible base kb. its so blatant that it would be a fun 1 and done

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

That is normal Marth though.

[@Pioxys]

The Pichu melee needed, but didn't deserve in tournaments.

[@zigaudrey]

An hacked Melee Pichu makes Brawl Meta Knight a fairer character in comparison (and that fits Meta Knight's honorable trait). 10:44 So, Jigglypuff is a better match-up to Hacked Pichu. 14:03 We find the truth! 18:06 All Hail Wayback Machine!

[@sir_ridley388]

Watch out for those Melee trap houses

[@checkmatenate]

yes I have seen the video you are referring to Hbox- he extended the rang of the pichu on the blue skin pichu of down tilt and neutral air

[@saxeladude]

well with a macro you could set it to a random delay between inputs and set a range for those delays

[@hollowowlyt]

The word Ohio makes me feel things these days when it never used to.

[@Enigma366]

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure you can mod any controller to do macro inputs, not just a smash box. Methinks there are 3rd party switch gc controllers that have macro buttons, so I doubt that is a box exclusive issue.

[@reddevn]

Imagine if Chaos ever took a set from one of the gods

[@Ecdemaniac]

He cant even beat the best person in his state

[@verde7595]

@@Ecdemaniac I think it's neat that a 13-year-old kid had the knowhow to even do what he did, though.

[@Tocinos]

11:23 I woulda quit lmfao

[@ToeKnee010]

Bro when I tell you I was tripping about the subtitles, didn’t notice until 5 minutes after that it was from the video he was watching😂

[@DraftyDaftyHubertOHare]

I love Hbox. So glad I found this channel.

[@susiehaltmann3342]

Gotta hand it to Chaos. He was smart with avoiding getting caught. It didn’t work obviously but to have to be plugged into the fourth slot, press a button combination, and use specifically the blue pichu skin was actually smart

[@jetblazethunder3596]

If you really want win a wise man once said this “pick a top tier"

[@DueBanana]

16:53 I heard Dan Salvato and had to do a double take I honestly forgot that the DDLC man made a mod for melee

[@JamesP7]

The funny thing is that there is actually a Smash easter egg in the game (it might’ve been removed in an update tho, can’t remember)

[@DueBanana]

@@JamesP7 I'm guessing it happens during act 3 And I missed it since I was too bored to keep listening to Monika and got the true ending instead

[@JamesP7]

@@DueBanana There was also a rare “PM died for this” upon booting up the game, which is a reference to Project M

[@cheyanne2001]

I love how i know the music in the background, White Bat Audio goes crazy (and this story too like zamn those hitboxes)

[@nkirmath8621]

I've also encountered players in apex who use a controller mod that helps make aim assist better, kinda cringe since I play with basic a ps4 controller and play just fine. I'm also pretty sure I've met a player in the fgc who has macros for command inputs. Mans pissed me off more times than not with such ridiculous reads to the point where I knew something was up but never had the proof

[@lights5651]

Pichu dies of steroids the hungrybox documentary

[@el-yerba-buena9678]

Damn, Asumsaus must feel betrayed

[@linkXness]

Can we make Super Pichu Legal to spice up the Meta?

[@ShaulaXNinja]

No

[@TheAMersOFFICIAL]

Ngl Surfs up Hail Satan might be the greatest tag I’ve ever heard

[@kylemsguy_]

Honestly, I don't think you'd even need a box controller in order to have a macro. You could probably fit a microcontroller into a stock gamecube controller that can MITM the inputs and execute macros as needed. Of course, it wouldn't be as easy as in a box controller, but it's still possible to do.

[@Balthazar228]

I can’t wait until someone hacks in a weaker version of a character in a tournament and still ends up winning. Also Inb4 Bowser vs Kirby grand finals of a major

[@GrandDee2135]

dude was playing pichu with a gnw's nine as a f-smash

[@Pr0ject_Dusk]

Had to go against a Bayo player in Ult who was lag switching/manipulating the connection in some manner. I was too late to inform anything to Cagt about my opponent since it was like my first online tourney at the time (spoke to him directly since we were familiar with eachother since we talked a while back at an offline tourney before COVID was a thing). Didn't take until that player's 4th match where that person complained about the same thing that I've said about the lag switching. I stopped keeping tabs afterwards once that player was officailly called out since I just wanted move on at that point, but I just wanted to let the TOs know and confirm that that one player was doing sus shit, and I was satisfied with him getting DQ'd least that. Maybe. Idk if he actually got DQ'd since I went and vibed somewhere. It's not modded cheating like in the video, but it's also not properly playing the game if a player has to do whatever fuckery outside of just..you know..just playing the game and not getting hit :/

[@JoshSaysStuff]

Didn’t Chaos say he cheated because he believed that if he lost his games, earthquakes would kill everyone? Or am I misremembering this? I just remember him saying that it was to prevent natural disasters.

[@ittylink]

Well it seems like he was following the serial killer that was doing the same thing then.

[@sebastianroberts-brown7036]

Hacker: Now I know you're looking for predictable patterns I can hopefully add some randomisation within certain boundaries to trade maybe a little performance for a large degree of detectability

[@Jestylor6]

As an Ohio native myself I'm not gonna lie the amount of times I said what the fuck is wrong with Ohio is fairly more than you'd expect. I mean I do live here so there is some degree of just accepting that it's weird but sometimes it gets so far away that I just don't understand...

[@cbd075]

“How did nobody know??” Imagine you lose to someone’s low tier in bracket and you start going “oh bro’s cheating” that’s not a great look, even if it’s true

[@sporkionsuz-beero4744]

Video should be named "Impossible Macchu Pichu"

[@neonredfox3579]

12:08 imagine having a forward smash that kills at 18% and a nair with the hitbox of the titanic and STILL lose. I would be so quiting at this point lol

[@gutscross9706]

i get that it's hard to run a tournament, but how is requesting neutral hardware that hard to accommodate? if so many there have their own hardware, asking a 3rd party should be ez, and in later rounds organizers must have a console or 2

[@Th1s230]

21:26 that's me using Falcon against Ganondorf

[@nachot6592]

Why would you increase the hit box by such a large distance? hahaha WTH? I LOVED the investigation.

[@ittylink]

Desperation.

[@DiamonDust]

Cause he was too garbage to win otherwise

[@e.m.2168]

Honestly I love the idea of someone cheating in a tournament just to see if they could get away with it. Like, one without any cash prizes or anything, just purely to see what they could get away with lmao

[@jakec3172]

Mom said it was my turn to cover this story

[@susiebaka3388]

hahahaha 5:14 "OH no no no no" lmao

[@noahfowler834]

Imagine cheating and then taunting

[@optimus_rhymes6955]

All these years I’ve thought it was harambe’s death, that messed up the timelines. Now I’m thinking it might have been this guy.

[@nkirmath8621]

Bit of a relief that link can be taken seriously, kinda goated tbh

[@whjk83921]

You can make macros that have Gaussian noise, so you really can't detect it with replays if you are being smart about it. You'd need footage of the controller.

[@SuperSonic-vs2jw]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this get uploaded recently before with a different thumbnail and title? Or maybe he changed the thumbnail and title after uploading, either way, the title is a bit misleading considering this is covering a story that we already have known about for years at this point. I like HBox 'n his content, but this felt a little... Idk, it didn't feel right. Sorry, man.

[@spicyeye10]

He was just tryna balance him

[@ninesalive]

$50 says this cheater is now a Steve main in ultimate

[@TheRealBDouble]

This guy was so arrogant that he snitched on himself asking about the filename on a public forum using his own name AND he blatantly modded the character to do crazy things, knowing he likely wouldn't be questioned. Gotta admit, that takes a lot of balls

[@ittylink]

How is that balls? He simply wasn't smart.

[@TheRealBDouble]

@ittylink Because he modified the character in such a way that it obvious that there was something off. Imagine if he'd been more subtle with the mods

[@Lulu_Lime]

​@@ittylink He went to tournaments with modded hardware. Like that's insane confidence.

[@Sadicasse_]

hungrybox new video title: superpichu

[@kamarapikachu4991]

HBox respected Sheetz. This makes me very happy. Much love from PGH

[@fuckinghugepablo]

they SCOOBY DOO'd the hell out of chaos to get his sd crd i fucking love it 😭

[@YURTZYN42]

😂😂😂 Hahaha they kinda did, didn't they? Like when the gang lures the monster to get like a sample of their hair or something lol I see the similarity

[@silverwolflee6978]

No offense but I'm guessing if these are players who aren't like really good or high level it may of been hard to notice. Like for HB it was easy and obvious to tell. Also may of been a bit fast or a lot in thier mind that it went unnoticed

[@Flip-a-dip-dip]

I feel like if they were more subtle with the mods, and didn’t give Pichu a buster sword for a tail, they probably could’ve gotten away with it.

[@kaja3932]

why stop at that if they nerfed pichu they definitely would've gotten away with it

[@WesleyFiles]

Chaos constantly insisting on using one setup (their own set up), would give it away no matter how subtle the changes were.