Huge Win for Homeowners Over HOA Fees

The judgment could exceed $34 million.
www.lehtoslaw.com

[@abrin5508]

Always warms my heart to see an HOA go down.

[@uendarkarplips7263]

Never again

[@jacqueslefave4296]

I think that these corporate fascists should be charged with Sedition for assuming governmental powers and authority without any constitutional authorization.

[@puppetsock]

Why would anybody ever buy a home under a HOA? I would not. City bylaws are bad enough.

[@jacqueslefave4296]

@@puppetsock I would live in a tree or a cave before I would live in one of those private fascist enclaves.😬

[@29VK05]

@@jacqueslefave4296 Get the Webster's out and look up those big words you are using here so freely, bud.

[@elrobo3568]

I used to get calls to "private" communities with HOA'S and they insisted that I, a sheriff enforce their rules. They said " they are parking on the street" I said "so what" they (they were two ladies with clipboards) I told them the streets were private and not subject to most traffic laws. They would also complain about someone not cutting a lawn or some other garbage. We had a situation here in Tucson where a family moved into their new home and within a few weeks received a letter demanding that they "remove the eyesore on their front door" the owner asked them what eyesore and they pointed out the 3 inch long and 3/8 wide tubular item with some writing on it. He told the HOA it was a Mezuzah and is a religious item containing the blessing on the home. They still insisted on him removing it. He refused and they fined him all sorts of fees and violations and even eventually put a lein on the home. they finally took him to court. The HOA had 5 people there all smug and the homeowner had himself and his lawyer, the sides presented their case and the judge addressed them and said he was dismissing the suit and was shocked at the boards actions and he was personally going to bring this case to the federal court to present it to the U.S. attorney to review for federal law violation on religious persecution.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

Something like a lien on the home, it's time to go full scorched earth. Not only completely destroy the house, but then contaminate the property to the extent that cleanup greatly exceeds the cost of the property, then just stick them with it.

[@CrippledEagle]

If one is Torah observant, we are commanded to put His Word on the doorposts of our house and upon our gates. The word used is Shall meaning that there is no option. Hopefully the courts will never try to over rules God’s Law.

[@TremereTT]

@@CrippledEagle I have no interests in the Thora, but can you say something about the following idea. 1. Everyone can create his own religious believe in the USA ? 2. Religious believe trumps HOA rules ? Is that true?

[@jackieann5494]

Thank you for sharing that, Sheriff ! I'm hungry for news of sane legal decisions .

[@drwisdom1]

The hoa where we used to live decided we could no longer park in front of our houses even though had been that way since neighborhood was built 20 years earlier! Was public road owned by city and taxpayers.

[@Eyes0penNoFear]

My buddy bought a home with an HOA. Apparently in Utah if you can prove the HOA doesn't doesn't provide services in the contract for 1 year, you can vote to disband it. Every day for a year he quietly documented the dead grass between the sidewalk and the road that the HOA was supposed to be taking care of. Then he rallied his neighbors and overthrew tyranny.

[@toriless]

I just have to mow the sidewalk grass.

[@angrydragonslayer]

​@@toriless i bet you could understand a conditional hypothetical

[@almoemason]

You don''t need to prove anything to vote to disband an HOA, you just have to have the votes. This is not going to be an easy thing to do, you will have a lot of legal hurdles to jump through and it will be quite a complex process. Of course,, the bigger the association the more difficult it will be.

[@eliseintheattic9697]

It's not that easy to disband an HOA. If there is commonly owned property, someone has to take care of it, and that someone is the City/County or whatever. That's why, in most places, the entity taking over ownership (and maintenance) has to agree to do it. Also in most places it takes a huge majority to do it, usually at least 75%.

[@almoemason]

@@eliseintheattic9697 I said that already, your post is redundant

[@angelachouinard4581]

When I was looking to buy several years ago, I saw a listing in which the realtor put in huge capital letters "NO HOA!!!". I guess she considered it a major selling point and I agree.

[@tuvelat7302]

I've seen that, too. HOAs are a deal breaker for me.

[@TheChoochooboy99]

We purposely chose all listings with no HOAs to look at when we purchased our house here in Florida. My neighborhood is amazing without one.

[@toriless]

@@tuvelat7302 My HOA document is 4 pages definitions, 3 pages phase 1 that does, and 2 page of rules, a half page of obligations, and 4 pages of legal crap like signatures, stamps, survey registration, etc.

[@toriless]

@@TheChoochooboy99 Mine is nice because we know each other. By name and personality, when I was in a condo I knew 2-5 people after 15 years and only 1 was a friend. One went insane, another has a stroke, one is still there and cooks some mean chicken, he is the only one I miss. I know more at my new location.

[@cgschow1971]

It is. That's the first criteria I asked of the realtor. No HOAs. It's definitely a selling point for some.

[@davefuelling7955]

The best HOA story I've heard is where a wealthy man who was retiring moved into an HOA neighborhood and was told not to long after moving in that he was in violation of some nit-picky rule and he would be fined if he didn't comply. He tried to fight it and lost so he complied and set about fixing the HOA. Over the next several years, he hired or set up a management company and every time a property went up for sale, he bought it under that management company and rented them out. Eventually he had acquired enough properties that he was the majority owner. Then he purposely violated some rule and waited for the HOA to send him notice. He scheduled to go before the board to discuss his violation at the next meeting. The night of the meeting, after the board threatened him with whatever action they were going to take, he informed them that he was the majority owner in the neighborhood and as such he had the voting rights under the HOA bylaws to replace the board, which he did and then told the community that he was disbanding the HOA and everyone was free to enjoy their homes in anyway they see fit.

[@rhymeswithorange6092]

Got links? Great "they got what was coming to them" story. But sounds very urban legendish. Would love for it to be true, but seems too good to be true.

[@lindatullos9430]

awesome lol

[@lindatullos9430]

of course there will be owners that become bad neighbors when they aren't restricted. hope no one ends up with a hole in their wall.

[@lindatullos9430]

and who will be responsible for the clubhouse/pool /laundry room fences , roof, foundation repairs etc. You know , those joint owned parts of a townhome

[@apersonontheinternet8006]

@@lindatullos9430 Karen, please don't ever leave your HOA. Stay there forever.

[@JH-ex6mb]

I lived in a HOA neighborhood once for 10 years and swore never again after we sold and left. Little people who like control over others end up on the board. I saw them use our funds to sue a neighbor whose high quality wood fence was an inch too high. I live on 38 acres now and need binoculars to see my neighbors.

[@Kitkat-986]

HOAs are just miniature govsrnments. They can levy taxes, and arrest you and sieze your property for failing to pay those taxes. Taxation is extortion, and anyone practicing taxation should be shot.

[@Reiikz]

that's what I want, no one's going to be able to tell you shit about your house if it's on the center of a huge property

[@VM-123]

Before I knew my husband, he lived in a retirement community in Florida where they tried to force people to have lights out by 10:00 p.m. and they weren't allowed to go out lol. The biggest mistake they made was going to my husband's place. They weren't met with any complying lol. There was nothing like that in the contract they just decided to make up their own rules as they went. After they met up with him, they never bothered anybody again. He had just moved in there.

[@2ProTecK]

@@VM-123 let's get you into a creative writing class ASAP.

[@madmaximilian5783]

@@VM-123sometimes it just takes a very confident individual to establish the personal boundaries with these HMO clowns. Great luck to you and your husband on your strong stance against those knot heads.

[@stevericard1546]

I have been living in a home with an HOA for 30 years. If I ever buy another home the last thing I would want is an HOA. The pretext is that they are there to maintain property values. What you actually get if a bunch of people with control issues who turn your neighborhood into their little fiefdom.

[@stevejette2329]

Yes. People who get a TINY bit of power over others can go crazy with it.

[@scottcooper4391]

Ditto - I'd rather live WAY outside a city than to ever deal with an HOA ever again. The last place we bought, we told the real estate agents "NO HOA" - turned out there supposedly was one (we didn't find out until closing and were more than a little pissed). After reading the rules, most of them were pretty reasonable (no pigs, for example) - and it turned out that the association was at least long dormant if not dead. All our neighbors felt the same way, so there was never any effort to get it re-started.

[@lindatullos9430]

@@scottcooper4391 just get everyone to vote it gone.

[@lindatullos9430]

you only need a majority vote. It becomes a problem when one person or group of people have a majority vote in the hoa. You can even vote the hoa gone if enough people are on this side. (but there is a problem with communal property maintenance if you do.

[@ColonelSandersLite]

@@scottcooper4391 IMHO, Linda is right. It may not be a problem now, but fast forward 10 years and it can become a big problem if it still exists. If it's dormant and nobody cares, it should be fairly easy to formally disband it now.

[@arthurneddysmith]

If you can join an HOA, but no-one can ever leave, HOAs will continually grow. As an Australian, it's stunning to think "the land of the free" would tolerate this.

[@jstraight1667]

People tend to think of freedom as just a right, but it's also a responsibility. You're free to enter into a contract that binds you to an HOA, but you're also responsible for upholding your end of that contract, including fees and rules that you agreed to be bound by. It's also your responsibility to research what you're getting into and unfortunately most people don't. Or crooked people take over and try to do stuff like what happened in this story.

[@jackmclane1826]

You are free to pick your mob outfit to rule over you. ;)

[@Manwith-thedabs]

We have the right to contract with whoever per our constitution but you need to carry our your end of the deal and be smart about entering into contracts that dont benefit you. I personally would never move into one of these sub-division that hoa controls. Thus is like dystopian type vibes lol why woukd I want anyone to impede on my private property

[@joecoolioness6399]

The reason you have an HOA is because the development is classified as a condominium which require HOA's. The reason they want to classify developments as condominiums is they have different rules around how close homes can be. The developer can put more homes in the same space. So that is the reason there are a lot of HOA neighborhoods. Call it greed or call it supplying much needed housing. But don't forget, no matter where you live there are rules set forth by the city, HOA rules just tend to be more specific and because there is a governing board, more people complain to them than would go to the city.

[@tw8464]

​@jetjanexactly

[@steen8156]

When I was young, I lived in a townhouse complex during my college years. One morning I discovered my car had a flat tire. While I was changing the spare, I had a middle aged lady and a very elderly man approach me demanding I stop since automotive repairs were against the rules. They advised I should have it towed to a shop. After telling them where to go wi their absurdity and how to get there, in great detail, I finished the tire change whilst they shuffled off muttering amongst themselves. Decades later, upon reflection, I have to admit they taught me a great life lesson: Never purchase property under an HOA.

[@scout360pyroz]

@@MM-pr1wf Woe is me! I might sell it for only $295,000 in a decade! Oh my profits have been slashed!

[@scout360pyroz]

@@MM-pr1wf not if you move into a house you intend to die in or your kids to inherit and live in. why is it you always have to plan to make money out of selling a house?

[@Jabberwockybird]

M M, you missed the joke. I think even if scout planned on selling the house in ten years, a neighbor's project car won't cause a loss. He was being sarcastic

[@therealbadbob2201]

@@MM-pr1wfso what? His or her property. None of your damn buissness.

[@1bkres]

@@scout360pyroz under Biden's new tax law if you try to leave your children they must pay 40% of the value of the home. Sickening. Facts!!!

[@kwood1192]

My little sister actually works full time picketing in front of an HOA in Bradenton, FL, sometimes there’s as many as 6 people! The HOA started fining her boss for parking his pick up outside the garage. After talking with others in the community it seems there’s a lot of petty policy enforcement going on. What the HOA didn’t know was how wealthy this guy is, he pays people $15/hr 7 days a week to harass board members. Additionally, he keeps filing lawsuits against the HOA for any thing he feels is unjust.

[@N20Joe]

Haha this man is putting people to work!

[@Bigbacon]

if he has that much money, move out where there isn't an HOA. Stupid to just sit there and throw money at garbage.

[@shayan7579]

Pay actor to look like homeless and just sit around the Hoa.

[@neohelios77]

@@Bigbacon - Very tempting, yes, but running away from the problem doesn't help his neighbors and friends who are still stuck under the tyranny. Of course it's not an obligation, but it is admirable when people in power or privilege stand up for those who cannot afford or are not organized enough to defend themselves.

[@SometimesImaPenguin]

@@Bigbacon Because sometimes it feels better to piss off some assholes than to have the money.

[@kwood1192]

ONE of the previous HOA’s I lived in made me replace the mailbox with their “specific” box that could only be bought through the management company. It cost about &350. Three years later they came around and demanded I replace it again. After some research I discovered the brother-in-law of the board president was making the mailboxes.

[@GeorgeMonet]

Pretty big conflict of interest. Pretty sure that is illegal.

[@DovidM]

Sweetheart deals between the HOA and contractors are par for the course. Our HOA told us to buy Behr paint from a specific store to repaint our garage doors. It is pretty clear why they tried to funnel all buyers to a specific store.

[@maxsdad538]

@@DovidM An HOA can require you to use a specific paint (i.e. Behr Red 2502), but they can not require you to purchase it from a specific vendor. That's a violation of FTC antitrust laws.

[@jfbeam]

That a RICO violation. Depending on their tax structure, it could be illegal self-dealing as well.

[@niq872]

@@maxsdad538 thats what i never understood often when they are formed theres some connection with the landscaping and maintenance companies that get contracts with the developers like it a family run business.

[@debrabrackemyre506]

I refuse to even look at a house that has an HOA. I never understood paying to have someone tell me what I could and could not do on my property.

[@danialhowe9814]

AMEN! Sister AMEN!.... doesnt the city already have that covered?

[@erikbrandsberg3196]

It isn't about you. It is your neighbors. You want THEM to be told they can't have their truck up on blocks for a month leaking oil. The main point is people are assholes and feel "if I'm allowed to do it, I will do it" and ruin the neighborhood resale value as a result. HOA neighborhoolds hold up value better than non.

[@curtcollett2893]

We have a neighbor with an RV in front and another neighbor with out of control weeds. What we don’t have are snoopy Karens and out of control HOA fees. I’m good with this.

[@erikbrandsberg3196]

@@curtcollett2893 Until you go to sell your home, and can't get a good price for it. You sound like the anti-vaxers "I may die, but you can't tell me what to do"

[@EngageYourFrontalLobe]

⁠@@erikbrandsberg3196😂 There are over 100 newer homes in multiple HOAs in our area and most are not even kept up to the standard at which our direct neighbors, w/o an HOA, do. For example, their matchbook sized lawns are full of dead grass, weeds and their flower beds filled w/ dead plants.

[@studuerson2548]

I was an HOA chairman in Mesquite, NV, and felt compelled to resign when the majority of the board voted to violate NV law to further their own authority. I'll never live in another one again. It's the most punitive level of "government" in our country.

[@jeremydale4548]

See, THIS is why HOAs should be outright BANNED worldwide

[@toriless]

Actually, municipalities can restrict more than most HOA's, for instance a city can REQUIRE you have garbage service but an HOA can not, it can only restrict it placement when being stored. A city can restrict street parking, an HOA can only restrict common areas from parking. However, you can restrict livestock when often allowed or RV's when often allowed by the city or county. Both are not allowed in my HOA and given the lot sizes I see no reason to change that. At almost 9000 SF I actually have the biggest lot.

[@gfy2979]

absolutely, the small local governments and organizations are not good. grassroots is not reflective of how pleasant the word can sound.

[@cesiba1]

They win that way. Your voice would've been the voice of reason on that panel

[@realstatistician]

@@gfy2979Imagine how insane the corruption gets in BIGGER government.

[@dennismccall9237]

A friend had a condo in a HOA that stopped doing any maintenance , drained the pool , locked the laundry ,and turned off the landscape maintenance . The HOA said they couldn't afford anything .The home oweners requested a aduit of the books and went to court .The court gave the HOA time to open the books . The day before the books were tobe opened the HOA managers moved .There were no books .

[@Inbal_Feuchtwanger]

In my state the HOA is required to disclose everything about their finances each year, and show where all of your money is going. Id be surprised if that isnt true for every state

[@ianadams827]

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

[@rom116kjv]

Yea, thats America in a nutshell...we hide it better than most though.

[@stevejette2329]

Power also REVEALS. It may have been dormant for years but the power allows the dark side to be exposed.

[@bruceaugustine6486]

I read a story where a house was in a H.O.A. and they were trying to fine the owner for walking in their house naked. The homeowner refused to pay the fee and the HOA tried to foreclose on the house, the homeowner filed a stay of execution with the court and a judge granted said Stay. The homeowner then filed a lawsuit against the HOA for invasion of privacy and being a peeping tom. The Judge sided with the homeowner stating that windows were to look out and not for looking into. With that judgement in hand the homeowner then went to the other court and said that they had a bogus lawsuit and moved for dismissal. The lower court granted the homeowners request for dismissal and ordered the fines were illegally obtained via the higher court ruling. The homeowner then charges the HOA for 2.5 Million dollars for invasion of privacy, trespassing, and embezzlement the homeowner won the suit and the judge doubled the award.

[@tonyprice2256]

CoOL sToRy BrO

[@donalddepew9605]

I love it when justice prevails.

[@tonyprice2256]

@@donalddepew9605 Yes. As rare as that may be.

[@spankynater4242]

If I’m understanding what you’re saying, the courts seem to have been an error. If this person is walking around naked with their windows open, then that’s a problem. Windows go both ways.

[@bruceaugustine6486]

@@spankynater4242 The court said if they are walking naked in their home then the rule uses the windows are to see out, not for looking in because it is an invasion of privacy. Nothing about if the windows are open or closed, or if it was only a bay window as long as they were in their home. This was The Supreme Court ruling.

[@JoseLopez-sb5zn]

I live in an HOA and these people are horrible. Thieves is even a kind word for them. They selectively enforce the by-laws.

[@melkiorwiseman5234]

Last I knew, there was a nice little legal principle known as "easement" and it's based on the idea that a rule or a law cannot be applied selectively. If it is, then it can't be applied at all. If you're taken to court over something that was applied selectively, you need evidence that it's not being applied to other people and that this is consistent over a long period of time. If you can show that evidence in court, you should have a good case to claim Easement and that unless and until the rule is rigorously applied to everyone, it can't be applied to you. You then argue that to do otherwise violates the very principle of justice and that therefore ruling against you would tend to bring the court into disrepute.

[@tw8464]

Exactly. The people who are behind this horrid rotten to the core "HOA" total corruption are absolutely NOT the kind of people who are good neighbors. I would NEVER want to live anywhere near such jerks.

[@rogerguinn4619]

When we bought in 2006, our #1 requirement was "No HOA"...

[@GilmerJohn]

Yep. We learned out lesson 34 years ago. No more HOAs.

[@1DwtEaUn]

@@McRod-1 I want to add CCR to my lots that rule out HOA membership/formation and the addition to or modification of the CCR.

[@jrquinn9377]

HOAs can be nightmares. My sister was going to buy a house in an HOA, and I told her, before you buy make sure you get a pen and paper and read ALL of the rules, at least 3 times. And any rule you're not sure of, write it down and ask the HOA to give you an example of that rule. Well after writing down 20 rules, she decided that this was insane and chose not to buy the house. Better to find out before you sign than after.

[@cward1954]

The problem with those "rules" is that they can change at any time. And you may/may not have any say so in the matter. All the more reason to steer clear of them.

[@cward1954]

@A H Depends on the HOA. They're not all the same.

[@thesmallwoodlot433]

I had an HOA lawsuit back in the mid 1990’s. I had sold my condo, and exited the association legally, so I thought! For24 months after moving, the HOA, continued to come after me for violations dealing with my car and truck, that one was present at the condo at any given time. The violation was that my vehicles were older then 2 years old! So the HOA insisted that my vehicles were an issue of safety due to age and neglect ( keep in mind the car was 1 year old, and the truck was an antique parked at m father’s house) I was 23 at the sale of the condo, but was hauled into court over unpaid and unsubstantiated claims of the prior 1 year, a lean against my father’s property, and impounding of all our cars ( on his land and inside the garage at the time) until violations were paid! Solution, call brother-in-law (cop), lawyered up, both with civilian and military attorneys, applied for search warrants of HOA board members and all bylaws regarding said HOA documents (costing us thousands of dollars) entered the court, and the HOA claimed that I was responsible to live under their rules and regulations for a period 9 years after I moved out and sold the condo! Court ruling abolished this HOA, jailed several board members found their attorneys in contempt, and most of the violations were communistic money grabs, and the board members were also found to have embezzled several hundred thousands of dollars! All vehicles were returned, lean was removed from my father’s property, and restraining orders extended against the HOA!

[@howardbonds5106]

communistic? maybe capitalistic too?

[@bmuseo]

​​@@howardbonds5106 Not quite...with capitalism, you still have the choice of if you want to consume it and buy it. Yes, capitalism is freedom to make profit, but that is only half of the story. With Communism, you get what you get...no choice.

[@howardbonds5106]

@@bmuseoThe HOA Its a capitalist dystopia. You get to charge people in exchange for nothing. just like the medical system. Our country is full of this nonsense...there is a shill around every corner. The HOA is the half of the story we are talking about, correct? So you get your choice of HOA predator...or sleep outside. We live in a capitalist society and HOA is the worst side of it. I doubt the communists worry about HOA fees on top of their own misery's. While I am sure they have many faults HOA is our own mistake.

[@nowyouknowrealestate5703]

Wow! This story tops all HOA stories I’ve heard to date! Awful! Glad you took charge and won.

[@tonyprice2256]

CoOL sToRy BrO

[@wildjiggaboo1]

I lived in a condo with a HOA. The thing I learned about their rules were that they would selectively enforce them. There was a mosaic glass decal on a tiny window near the front door of our condo from when we purchased the place. It's fair to assume it had been there for some time prior, but not long after we moved in, we got a violation notice for it. I read over the rules and could spot various violations throughout the neighborhood that never seemed to change. If you don't enforce the rules for everybody, then the rules are meaningless. The amenities provided by HOA governed communities have to really be worth it to you to deal with nitpicky rules that will be arbitrarily enforced on you and seemingly nobody else.

[@michaelwinter742]

The rules are there to enforce on those you don’t like. Originally, HOAs were designed to keep black people out of certain areas. That continues to be their main function, but with whatever people the HOA officers choose.

[@gypsymom0819]

@@michaelwinter742 Yep it was called "redlining" and it was to keep Blacks and Jews out. Rampant in post war America.

[@ramadaxl]

I am SOOOOO glad that HOA's are not a 'thing' in the UK !

[@mukimball78]

We had a mess with selective enforcement, playing favorites, etc... A team of 7 took over our HOA and ran it right with the best legal counsel by our side. Under my leadership as HOA president and regardless of the feedback, selective enforcement was NOT an option. In fact... I told the property manager to START by enforcing all the rules against the BOARD FIRST... She said NO and that she would treat everyone equally. Yes about 10% (those who used to benefit) hate me, but the other 90% loved me... When people complained at me, I ask them for a solution proposal instead of a problem ... I also asked them to volunteer to lead the solution... It is amazing how many people just like to complain and do not want to work. When people complained about Basketball goal rules and were willing to put forth the effort... I had the attorney draft a covenant change... My neighborhood needed 75% to pass it... Over 90% voted to pass it! This is probably the largest favorable vote that has ever happened in an HOA...

[@powerofk]

In general, condos are required to have HOAs (I'm on the HOA board for the condo I live in). For condos, it makes sense, as each condo is independently owned, but the exteriors of the buildings are shared. As such, it's the HOAs job to pay for things like roof repairs, because a single roof belongs to several condos. As for the by-laws, most of them are originally written by the builders of the community. Ours actually has many by-laws but little enforcement power - and so for the time being, the only thing we focus on is making sure everyone's dues are paid... and the only other rule that we insist on is no short-term leasing, primarily for safety reasons.

[@dashy9482]

I will never live in a place that has my neighbors impose rules on my property. Nor do I wanna impose rules on my neighbor

[@nameberry220]

Are you ok with your neighbours being intolerably loud?

[@dashy9482]

@@nameberry220 if its within legal limits because most towns have a sound ordanence sure. I'm rarely home

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@dashy9482 Yeah, most of the "issues" uninformed people think HOA's are formed to deal with are already covered by existing laws and town/city ordinance. Noise, garbage, failing/falling trees, fence regulations, etc. - And as to things like "distasteful house colors" I used to like being able to give directions like, "Turn left at the orange house with green shutters, and my house is the second on the left after the pink and purple mail box.

[@donnie1581]

Exactly, I could care less what my neighbors do with their land, and I expect the same.

[@CrippledEagle]

I remember reading an article years ago about a tussle that a HOA got in with a retired lawyer. He saw the power grab being foisted upon the residents of the HOA and decided to fight back. I believe that he filed so many lawsuits the HOA that it finally bankrupted it. I hate to see something go to this extent, but the board should have been removed years ago. I think that we all have seen those folks whose main aim in life is to control others. Give them a little power and ………

[@johnme7049]

@Marvin Evans My favorite came I think from Reader's Digest. It involved an older veteran who was installing a flagpole to fly a U. S. flag. He was forced to remove the flag pole, so, having read the HOA's regulations, hired a company to paint his house as a giant American flag that went around all four sides of the house. There were NO regulations stating what color the house had to be. HOA lost that one.

[@hamali8126]

HOAs = crazed power Nazis I had a woman just two days ago go onto my property, while we we not at home, and take pictures with her phone. I am livid and I am actively looking to move ASAP.

[@ffggddss]

An HOA is a magnet for tinpot dictator wannabes. Fred

[@verucasalt4535]

An old coworker of mine was harassed by the hoa for not having plants in her pots on her front porch. She was going through a really tough time because her mother was literally in the hospital dying and she did not have time to worry about it.

[@tonyprice2256]

CoOL sToRy BrO

[@blanca-borb]

​@@tonyprice2256 Hey Karen, shouldn't you be screeching at the unfortunate schmucks in *your* HOA, instead of copy pasting a response to every complaint about dealing with Homeowners association of assholes?

[@themadpizzler6081]

I live in Florida and I just found out at Thanksgiving that my mother is being sued by an HoA that is located next to where I live. The only problem: My 82 y/o mother lives eighty miles away. She had a cousin that owned a house in the HoA who died and have decided to sue family members for unpaid fees. I hate HoAs.

[@rhymeswithorange6092]

If there is any justice in the world, a counter suit would be very lucrative. Legal fees, punitive damages for harassment, sanctions against the lawyers suing not-participants in the contract, etc. I don't have a lot of confidence that there is justice, though.

[@DVankeuren]

Pretty sure you cannot sue family members for debts owed. You can sue the estate, but you cannot just pick family members and tell them they owe you money.

[@annetunstall967]

Here in the UK you cannot do this unless there is money in the estate. However if that has been passed to other family members it becomes their property and is no longer part of the deceased estate.

[@jamessimms415]

After my half brother passed away (unknowingly; we weren’t that close & he lived two states over), I received a letter abt his debts. I contacted a lawyer & he said I had nothing to worry abt.

[@dianebrady6784]

@@DVankeuren Which VanKeuren was your ancestor? We are somehow related. We have a rather uncommon name.

[@Unclejake]

I did that in Virginia, they sent out proxy sheets for people votes who will not be attending the annual meeting…I went door to door and gathered proxy’s from folks who basically gave up on the HOA. We (group of us) walked in and seated a complete new board, and changed the rules.

[@GilmerJohn]

I admire and respect you for your energy.

[@nigelbarker8726]

I'm surprised you were able to change the rules so easily. The board generally doesn't have that power, most CC&Rs require a pretty high quorum of owners to vote for rules changes.

[@SonsOfLorgar]

@@nigelbarker8726 that's what the cards were for, they were signed writs that appointed them as representatives voting in absentia for the other HOA members who didn't care to attend.

[@GilmerJohn]

@@nigelbarker8726 -- No two HOAs are the same but sometimes a relative small number of folks own several units each. They can provide a quorum for doing ordinary business and provide a bulwark again an overturn. To overwhelm the HOA and change or abolish it would take a lot of work.

[@nigelbarker8726]

@@MamaMOB Because HOAs have responsibilities that are crucial. In a condo building some entity has to maintain the shared roof. When a shared drain blocks, who else pays the plumber?

[@benjaminbrockway5998]

HOA's are the perfect way for petty tyrants to get their fix in making other people miserable.

[@copcuffs9973]

*as miserable as they are

[@phillee2814]

Coming from the UK, it never ceases to amaze me that any part of the US allows this extortion. Whatever happened to the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

[@carbonarrow7]

It all starts with the greedy engineering company making extra money by creating the legal HOA for their developments, then dragging out the building of the development to keep collection those outrageous HOA fees into their pockets and do nothing but harass the homeowners for the picky rules they created to fine them for even more money. Then in the future the KAREN'S AND KEN'S take over and create more picky rules to keep fining the homeowners for more money to eventually taking their homes to sell it to the next sucker for even more money. These HOA developments are just mini communists communities controlled by power hungry Ken's and Karen's who have nothing better to do than harass other people and homeowners.

[@CptJistuce]

Your guess is as good as mine, but people seem increasingly unwilling to live those words in many respects. I'm american, I've never lived under a homeowner's association. I was confused to learn they exist at all, more confused to learn that most states legally recognize them and grant them broad authority. I was sure what I heard about them MUST be illegal, but it is explicitly legal. I swore as soon as I learned of them that I would never live under one.

[@daleinaz1]

With freedom, comes the freedom to voluntarily enslave yourself. HOAs are a voluntary association (no one forces you to buy a home with an HOA). Unfortunately, most city governments require an HOA for any development over a certain size, as a condition of the development plan. The reason is that the city can then mandate features like parks, pools, and landscaping in common areas, which they city does not have to maintain. Without an HOA, the city would be required to maintain those features (and ownership would be deeded to the city). When I bought my house 20 years ago, NO HOA was one of my criteria.

[@abnormallynormal8823]

@@daleinaz1 if most of the homes in an area you’d like to live in have an HOA, you’re kinda forced into buying into an HOA if you’d like to live there

[@austinlance7206]

Isn't it worse on the UK??

[@raybrensike42]

I once drove through a 55+ trailer court and it was beautiful. Every place had it's own colors and personality. I really wished I could live there. It was amazing. When I got old enough to buy a trailer there, they were doing new sewer lines, roads, the whole thing, and then they got the new rules and all the colors of the paint had to be approved and you could no longer build on any sort of small addition. It was then that the whole place looked so different there was no reason to want to live there anymore, except for financial reasons. The lot rents were less than apartment living. Sad thing though, what happened to the community. Even the mailboxes had to all be a basic black. People used to paint them and decorate them, showing their personalities and unique artwork. What a wonderful place it used to be.

[@analogidc1394]

An HOA may start out being reasonable with rules, but as time goes on the rules almost always become more restrictive.

[@boataxe4605]

@@analogidc1394 Give ‘em an inch and they’ll take a mile.

[@woodchippers_WestWingDimeBag]

@@analogidc1394 thats what government does it takes the power you gave to it and uses it to take more power

[@rhymeswithorange6092]

@@analogidc1394 Yep. Human nature. Live and let live people don't want to run the HOA. People attracted to running it are those that love to tell their neighbors what to do, not "just don't scare the horses" types. Entitled Karens get power, and get busy straightening everybody out, making damn sure they toe the line or pay a heavy price.

[@soundhealer6043]

That's what happens when a psychopath is in charge.

[@pigpenpete]

Living in a country where HOA's arent a thing, HOA's just sound like a legalised protection racket. The land of the free sure seems to have a lot of rules telling citezens what they can't do with their own property.

[@boataxe4605]

The whole “Land of the free and the home of the brave” thing is over. We are now the land of the controlled and the home of the scared.

[@booksareamazing1]

Some of the first HOA’s were created to ensure only white people could live in certain areas. This way if a neighbor was less racist than everyone else and sold the house, the poor fool who bought the house could be sued and kicked out.

[@kevincmiles-cn6un]

America--the land of the fee and the home of the slave.

[@GilmerJohn]

Frankly, I'm surprised that no one has (so far as I know) gone nuts and killed the condo board. Heck, that's the American way, right?

[@Ka_Gg]

Its because people are naive and willing to sign up. I'll never join a HOA

[@dennismccall9237]

A woman I know said her neighbor painted their house an unapproved color.She asked " how did you get away with that color ? " The neighbor said that the HOA had been desolved a long time ago .Her finance company was still charging her HOA fees .

[@melkiorwiseman5234]

... and now that neighbour has grounds to charge her finance company with fraud.

[@butteryfriedwizard2219]

I turned down 3 homes that had HOA attached for my first home. The lady acted insulted. When I said HOA was not an option, she said she would have to find something for me later. Safe to guess I didn't do buisness with her. I was fortunate to have an ex realtor in my corner to keep me informed on what to look for.

[@cma9042]

I've only had to deal with an HOA twice, my condo association and later my townhouse. HOA rules apply to some but not others. Naturally the rules applied to me but not my neighbor. So glad to have left HOAs behind!!!!

[@cgi2002]

In cases like that, you can play "do you really want to sue me". As one of the few generally always effective legal defenses you can have against a HOA is discrimination. So if you can prove a rule they fined you for isn't been applied to everyone equally, the HOA will nearly always lose, as they are discriminating. If your an ethnic, religious or any other form of "minority" or just "different" to the HOA board, even better.

[@johnmcginnis5201]

We are finishing the interior of the last house I will ever live in. (I hope) When we went looking for a property I told the misses I had two requirements. 1) A small plot of acreage as I did not want to be able to shake my neighbors hand by opening a window. 2) No !#$^!@#$% HOA! I have lived in two HOAs with mixed experience. The first was very compliant and only enforced stylistic concerns and commons. You could do anything else as everyone's yard was an enclosed patio. The second, what a nightmare. The board meetings are a disaster. There is a small faction that goes around with a ruler looking for any infraction. I am glad we are moving out. In Texas there is a third form of HOA, PID Planned Infrastructure Development. Originally intended for industrial parks but now being applied to residences. The city wanted to place the townhomes in a PID. Essentially it would give the city the right to enforce improvements and charge the residents. I attended several meetings one of which I pointed out that once approved there is no exit in the future. The Mayor did not believe it nor did the city attorney. I read the appropriate passage to them. The city attorney looked it up and yep that is what it says. That pretty much killed the deal.

[@i-love-comountains3850]

@@johnmcginnis5201 Good on you. Watch your back, though, you just fucked someone out of millions of dollars. They're gonna want a head.

[@brandontyler1754]

Hoa's are insane. My uncle had a property that he had owned for 10 years before an HOA was finally established. They tried to tell him that because his house was there he was automatically subject to the HOA even though he did not vote to establish it did not approve the establishment he was the first house in the area. They tried to tell him that if he dug a well he would have to share it with like three other houses. And if he used his huge industrial size generator that could power a whole block they told him he would have to power the whole block with it. He told them to stick it where the sun don't shine because he's not actually part of the HOA

[@zpvnrt]

You're Uncle is lucky, in several states there are provisions that allow a New HOA to be formed if a super majority of landholders within a subdivision to hold open meetings and vote to create an HOA with mandatory inclusion. + So anyone that gets a notice of such an action being taken had better get a lawer that deals specfically with HOA/Realestate, ( I've found that HOA laws are often very difficult to consolidate within the state code - for example in the state I live in I've found HOA regulations in 8 different chapters of the Revised Statutes - and I'm sure there are others but the site is almost impossible to search ), and get involved to make sure their interests are protected - ! + www.hopb.co/hoa-state-laws + independentamericancommunities.com/2017/11/08/can-your-neighbors-force-you-to-join-a-new-hoa/ > to complicate matters more... some states allow adminstrativly dissolved HOAs to re-instate with a simple refiling and payment of back fees to the state... so one could buy a property in an subdivision where the HOA was disolved by the state for failing to file and pay the required fees; therefore the property wasn't subject to the HOA at the time of purchase, and then find yourself in a manditory HOA because a new group of people refiled and paid the fees - beacuse the property was part of that HOA - you may be stuck in the reformed HOA, again, you'll need a lawyer to get you out of that bind!

[@cdc3]

HOAs create petty fiefdoms. Petty tyrants love them and live by the moto "Why have power if you don't use it?" In some areas I agree that there should be minimal standards of appearances but when it winds up as a "Stepford" neighborhood it's time to move or disband the HOA before they choke you to death...

[@brantmacga]

Several years ago, i bought a lot that I was told belonged to an HOA. The deed didn’t mention it, and then we discovered the developers attorney died before filing the paperwork, and I was sold the lot before anyone realized it. The developer stopped by every week while we were building our house asking me to sign an agreement to join the HOA. Eventually it became threatening and i trespassed him from my lot.

[@charleshines2506]

As long as he doesn't sign any agreements and keeps in contact with a lawyer or attorney (they seem the same to me really) he would be fine. Just let the lawyers and attorneys do all the talking and give the HOA the silent treatment otherwise when they are at the door. At most just tell them to go away and call your lawyer, nothing else.

[@PatrickDKing]

@@zpvnrt what state do you live in? I want to make sure I never ever move there.

[@MsBeachLizard]

We lived in Florida for 30 years. HOAs in a lot of communities are like mini gestapos. Any house we purchased always made sure you understood the covenants. The "Disney" neighborhood told ppl what colors of curtains, etc to put in their windows. That really exists there. -- We almost couldn't sell our house when we left bc the HOA changed up their accepted paint schemes for homes right after we had an ARC approved color for the paint on our house. Our Realtor was in the board, so she helped us crawl out of that mess. There was also a guy on the board who physically walked the neighborhood every morning going thru ppl's backyards (without fences) looking for things outside of covenants and writing ppl up. Then there was the guy on the board with the drone for fenced yards.... I absolutely drew the line there. Told them I'd take them to court for that. He stopped. One of our neighbors was having his driveway re-done while in the process of selling his home. The HOA put a lien on his home and took the guy to court for re-doing his driveway. The pending offer he had fell thru bc of that. In our friend's neighborhood, they had tow trucks on standby IN the neighborhood hooking up to any car that parked in the street and towed them off. Our friend got hit on two separate occasions on his lunchtime stopping by his home to get something really quick and take off back to work. When he came back out once, his truck was gone. The second time, they had his truck hooked up. HOAs in Florida are no joke. The HOA we have here where we moved (different state) is like $180 a year. It keeps the street lights on, and maintains our entry. That's it. None of this other terrorist crap. What a breath of fresh air!

[@gotwalk]

Reading all real estate documents prior to buying is critical for future owners. However, some folks prefer uniform looking properties for aesthetic tastes.

[@PaulFE7]

8 years ago I lived under the rule of an hoa. I wanted to widen my driveway and was told no. I then asked if I could cut /trim the trees on either side of the driveway. Absolutely not. Those trees belong to the hoa. So, does their roots belong to the hoa since they are attached to the trees? Clearly, tenant's names, they are as the two cannot be separated. Ohhhhhhhh so the root belongs to the tree and the tree belongs to you. [setting this up] ** previous to this interaction I received a note from the hoa stating I was responsible for the conduct and actions of my guests due to the extension of the them being at my house and my house was subject to the rules of the hoa. I was responsible for any damages caused by my guests. So you are responsible the trees and by extension are responsible roots and any damage they may cause. My driveway is cracked due to the roots which creates a safety issue which by extension is now your responsibility. I was granted permission to widen the driveway.

[@toriless]

Townhouse

[@frankhoffman3566]

A few years back I was looking around for a buildable lot. I found one, 2.5 acres at a good price. Very nice. It had an HOA. I asked for a copy of the rules. They were emailed to me - all 112 pages of them. Unbelievable nazi-like restrictions on everything. I sent an email back to the seller saying that he would have to pay me to take the lot off his hands.

[@ckm-mkc]

Yup, had the sane thing with six acres I found for relatively cheap.

[@davidsawyer1599]

I am currently looking to purchase a property. I have come across a few that are ridiculously inexpensive. Fairly new and large homes. The price per sq.ft is ten times less the area is getting. The catch? HOA! 70k nonrefundable application fee. $3500.00 a month HOA fee. These people want out so much they are willing to take a huge loss.

[@no_peace]

@@davidsawyer1599 ?!?!!

[@evannibbe9375]

@@davidsawyer1599 They should try selling the property to the state or federal government, who can then just retroactively make the property no longer part of the HOA, then sell it for a profit.

[@frankhoffman3566]

@@davidsawyer1599 ... One glaring thing was how the rules covered areas already covered by state law. This just illustrated a mindset that, either the HOA board thought they were equivalent to the state government, or that after the state gets done with violators, the HOA steps in for its own cut. Either mindset would be miserable to live with.

[@riblets1968]

Ohio law, fortunately, provides a remedy for troublesome HOAs: the ability of residents to vote them out of existence. I and my fellow residents did precisely that to our development in Columbus a few years ago and there was much rejoicing.

[@johnp139]

Not if the other residents don’t care enough to vote for the board members or rule changes.

[@CptJistuce]

@@johnp139 They didn't vote for board members or rule changes. They voted to abolish the HOA.

[@danielkoontz6732]

Haha! "And there was much rejoicing" had me remembering that Monty Python and the Holy Grail bit with the same line and hilarious drawings

[@riblets1968]

@@danielkoontz6732 Oh yeah! When they ate the bard over the Winter! That was a great movie.

[@abrahamlincoln9758]

yaayy...🚩🏴🏳🏴🚩

[@alexpeters2361]

I bought my first house in 2007. The newly built neighborhood had rules I needed to sign along with my other mortgage documents. I noticed that the rules provided seemed to be just the last page of the neighborhood rules. After some back and forth between my realtor and the listing agency, I got all the rules. They weren’t too oppressive, so I agreed. After I moved in, I noticed nobody followed any of the rules. When I talked to my neighbors, I quickly found out, nobody had been given the full list either, and they didn’t ask. Luckily for me, because of the housing bubble bursting, the developer unloaded the properties as fast as he could and the HOA never got set up.

[@davidrush4908]

My neighbor recently had a problem getting a permit for a fence . Code Enforcement required her to get HOA approval. Our immediate area does not have an HOA. Code wouldn't talk to the tax office which was literally 10 feet away. She had to get the mayor involved, but she has her fence permit.

[@GilmerJohn]

Yep. Yet another example why Fascist governments like HOAs.

[@machintelligence]

Form an HOA with one member (yourself) and approve your own fence.

[@davidrush4908]

@@MamaMOBA lawsuit would have been overkill, and not worth pursuing. A secretary saw a space on a form and rhought it was always required, but didn't know how to determine when it wasn't. Granted most of the homes in the town were built by developers and fall under an HOA, but several streets including ours predate the town's incorporation. All of these houses were individually built. I know I have a utility easement in the front and another in the rear for drainage, but there is no ditch. I had some flooding issues at first but fixed it myself with a little grading, and no I did not ask permission.. .

[@machintelligence]

I wasn’t entirely serious.

[@grahvis]

I have never understood why in the supposed land of the free, so many are willing to live under the thumb of petty tyrants.

[@Beecher_Dikov]

Many don't know what they are getting into.

[@johnhughes1783]

Well petty tyrants need to find victims to sustain their thirst for injustice and subjugation. They don't actually care if the height of your mailbox is a few inches off, they just want to make you their be otch cause then the endorphins make their brains happy, in other words phony tough.

[@betochiwas]

I mean many Americans talking about taking guns if the goverment takes their freedom, but if is a private entity they just bend over.

[@marknewton6984]

Many are willing sheep.

[@Kerry70]

A friend of mine's favorite story about a HOA - he was installing satellite dish service and the HOA tried to prevent the homeowner from doing so. The owner contacted the FCC who showed up and told the HOA where to go.

[@AllCentaur]

You don’t fuck with the FCC. I watched someone learn that the hard way when they jammed my drone while I was working over a farm. They will get their way, whether you like it or not.

[@PineJay1308]

@@AllCentaur Drones are extra fun because you can get the FAA coming down on you too. They really aren't fond of people messing with aircraft manned or otherwise.

[@deusvult6920]

@@AllCentaur any federal agency is like that. It's easy to get away with stuff with state and local police. But the feds have a massive budget and all the time in the world. Someone is holding the case file and whenever they start digging their teeth in you're not getting out of it. They will eventually make their case. State / local cops are easy to fool because they don't spend so much time. Eventually they judt close out the case file

[@justinmiller5660]

Ham radio. Put up ham radio tower in your yard. The FCC states you can not remove ham radio towers at all because it is a national security device and protected. Plus it will piss off the old hoa fuckheads.

[@Jutilaje]

Lmao the feds - ESPECIALLY the more "obscure" agencies like the FCC (not that they're necessarily obscure, but they're not the FBI getting all kinds of "action") are usually CHOMPING at the bit to justify their budget. That little bullet point they send to congress saying "the FCC prosecuted 10,438 cases of illegally tampering with a protected communication frequency this year" works a treat to make congress think there's an epidemic of pirate radio stations and possible terrorists interfering with our communications infrastructure, when in reality it's just an HOA getting rekt for forcing a homeowner to remove their satellite because it's not the correct "Morning Fog Gray" color from their approved color swatch. And i'm perfectly fine with that being what the FCC spends their budget on 😂

[@Dstromb232]

I bought a house that was in a HOA. Then after being there for almost a year, I received a letter from the HOA and told me that my mailbox was 1 inch to close to the street. The company that I work for required to go out of town for a period of time so I received a $100 dollar find and I told them about the issue with my job and I would fix it when I get home but they still issue me to pay $100 dollars. I found out that the original owner was the brother of the head of the HOA, so I took them to court, I sued for $5000.00 because they did nothing to the previous owner and won. The Judge ordered the review the laws that HOA put in and will be hearing from the owners to see about change?

[@toriless]

All HOA's for the past two decades (or more) use community boxes. You must be in an ancient HOA.

[@saltpepper1894]

I remember how horrified my neighbors were when they got a notice... Their multiple hurricane damaged houses were going to be fined a few months past the last storm would be fined daily for houses being out of code. Ppl were lucky to get insurance claim in & someone to even look at let alone fixing it then, FL was completely overwhelmed from the storms but this HOA wanted to profit off the disaster! PLEASE dont live in an HOA!

[@perdedor3571]

I think that's just when you beat the piss out of the next board member you see.

[@teufeldritch]

Saw a meme the other day: "What do call a group of Karens? A Homeowners Association."

[@marknewton6984]

They never made cheerleader.😮

[@NQTOD]

You know how I handle HOA’s Don’t move into one…..worked out well for me so far

[@danielseelye6005]

But that's the problem: More and more land is being gobbled up by corporations and hedge funds who create HOAs, which means that land/homes that _aren't_ in those associations is becoming rarer, thus more expensive and potentially forcing people who want their first homes into HOA controlled places. It could be mitigated if the HOAs were able to be held to account but, as Steve said, many states have no rules in regards to them and they act like mini-fiefdoms with no legal recourse. Florida has some because of how prolific they are but still...

[@davidk8184]

Wow you have all the answers.

[@GilmerJohn]

@@danielseelye6005 -- Some states (Virginia is one) have laws on the books that make it easier to launch a development with an HOA than without. It's a form of Fascism: an HOA can impose the kind of controls that a government can't. Fascists love this kind of stuff.

[@NQTOD]

@@davidk8184 I do and thanks for noting All the answers are on a sign in my front yard…cause I can put it there

[@theonlybuster]

Easier said than done. In FL, nearly half of homes fall under an HOA. The ones that don't are often in lower end communities or in the sticks. It's a bit of a challenge to avoid HOAs in FL if you want a good neighborhood.

[@dudleydeplorable5307]

HOA's are just one of the plethora of reasons why I live at the top of a mountain in the rural Ozarks...!

[@moodiblues2]

When I was living in a small Florida community with a HOA, I convinced my neighbors to let me modify the HOA to get rid of picky rules such as the type of mailbox, the colors of the houses, how many cars you could have. Since at the time I was a County Judge, I had no trouble doing so and having the amended HOA recorded to each neighbor’s title.

[@darrennew8211]

This is the right answer. I know so many HOAs where almost nobody even returns the vote for who they want in charge, let alone actually runs for an HOA position, yet they're happy to bitch about how the money gets spent.

[@moodiblues2]

@@darrennew8211 👌🏻😎

[@geraldbennett7035]

so now those homeowners still pay HOA dues but live in an ugly neighborhood?

[@moodiblues2]

@@geraldbennett7035 that ugly neighborhood is a bunch of ugly houses built in the 1980s on the waterfront of the Loxahatchee River in Jupiter Florida. My ugly house had an ugly two boat dock that I had built. I had an ugly half a million dollar house with a screened in lake-sized pool and about an acre of beautiful grass and palm trees surrounded by a stone fence on one side and wood on the other sides. My ugly house was the crappiest in the ugly neighborhood. My ugly neighbors were thrilled to be free of the stupid HOA rules. It wasn’t imposed on them, we all voted for it. I only wish I had kept the house, now worth three times what it was sold for by me in around 1999. C’est la vie mon ami.😎

[@12345fowler]

@@moodiblues2 Hey I see what you did there mon ami. It was a memorable comeback !

[@goldenheartOh]

When we moved, I searched for houses online that met our minimum requirements. Got maybe 75 results. When I ticked off "no hoa", got only 1 result. I HATE HOA"s. I think it's absurd to be willing to agree to a force that can take your house away just because you want to feel you control your neighbors' houses.

[@jansonshrock2859]

join your neighborhood's HOA board or Karen will

[@B3Band]

@@jansonshrock2859 Except that she will join anyway, and so will every other Karen in the neighborhood. HOAs turn people into Karens.

[@drink15]

When your neighbor doesn't cut their grass and you can't use your patio because of all the Mosquitoes and Ticks, an HOA starts looking very nice.

[@goldenheartOh]

@@drink15 that's what city ordinances are for. No need to create a new entity with the authority to ruin your life.

[@williamwallace9826]

Almost 20 years ago my wife and I visited a cousin in Arizona. He and his wife drove us around to show us a bunch of new housing developments, and he proudly announced that they were all under HOAs. My wife was recently arrived from another country so she had no idea what an HOA was, but my cousin and his wife genuinely didn't understand why I told them to just stop the tour unless there were some developments that weren't HOAs. (There weren't any.)

[@MrGundawindy]

Steve, have you seen the HOA where you have to leave your garage door open during the day? It's a joke. People need to stop buying in areas controlled by a HOA. Make those properties worthless and drive the HOA into bankruptcy.

[@l.ls.8890]

I saw something like that on the news not too long ago.

[@Eternal_Tech]

What would be the purpose of leaving a garage door open during the day? I would think that a closed garage door would be more aesthetically pleasing than looking into a cluttered garage.

[@RightHereRightNow00100]

@@Eternal_Tech Oh! I saw the news report on this! Someone was using their garage for an extra bedroom, and they had a relative living in the garage, so the HOA requires everyone to leave their garage doors open so that they can see no one was living in there. It was a funny news report because they only interviewed a 9 year old kid and he really let people know how dumb he thought it was. (he was concerned his bike would be stolen from the garage with the door open) look up "HOA demands homeowners to keep garage doors open", its on the KPRC 2 News out of Houston

[@mikesimpson6757]

There are always going to be gullible people that will buy a home with an HOA without reading the by-laws

[@MrGundawindy]

@@Eternal_Tech Like LAex said, I think it was so they could check that no one was living in the garage. But you're right. I would want the garage doors closed for aesthetics as much as security.

[@paparoysworkshop]

I once bought a condominium many years ago and had no idea about these condominium contracts. A few days after moving in, some representatives came by and gave me a contract to sign. They wanted it to be signed right away but I told them I had to carefully read it first so they reluctantly left. Most of it was fine and I agreed with what it said, but there were a few things I didn't like that had to do with issues with your own back yard (which by the way had a 6 foot fence around it so seeing inside would not be easy). Anyway, I did not agree and never signed it. They complained but I just gave them the number to my lawyer. The more they complained, the more I went out of my way to break their rules. After about 3 years, they gave up and left me alone. It went to court only once but since I never signed the contract, I was not held liable to uphold it. 🙂

[@geraldbennett7035]

you didnt read the covenants prior to closing!

[@paparoysworkshop]

@@geraldbennett7035 Nope. That was given to me after the fact.

[@scotttaylor9133]

you are VERY lucky, there is generally no requirement to sign the covenants, they're a burden on the deed (they're a deed restriction that says the owner shall abide by current covenants). So when you buy the property you are agreeing to them (at least in georgia). Caveat emptor, and I'm very happy for you that it worked out like that.

[@paparoysworkshop]

@@scotttaylor9133 Perhaps I should have mentioned too that I'm in Canada. I'm sure such laws are different between the States and Canada. But I'm not an expert.

[@timothyschanuth3197]

That's because they knew they broke the law before you bought the property they must INFORM YOU OF A HOA and provide you with the bylaws , and you would have the right to back out of the sale without losing escrow , when you buy in a HOA you ARE NOT BUYING REAL PROPERTY your buying 1 share of stock in an HOA that pays no dividends and you are required to pay maintenance fees in hopes the stock you own is only worth what you can sell the HOA asset for , real estate now days is for suckers unless you own 10 plus homes

[@amicaaranearum]

I am an attorney practicing in real estate litigation. I have had enough cases involving unreasonable HOAs that I never want to buy a home in a neighborhood where HOA membership is mandatory. The problem is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to find nice property that is not subject to an HOA. The covenants run with the land, and nearly every new development is an HOA neighborhood.

[@daleinaz1]

New developments are required by the city to have an HOA, because then the city can require the developer to install pools, parks, landscaping, etc, which then the HOA (rather than the city) has to pay to maintain. As a Libertarian, I insist on keeping authority and responsibility together. You mandate it, you maintain it. Cities also like it because they don't have to do much code enforcement.

[@abrahamlincoln9758]

HOAs are a successful attempt to convert affluent neighborhoods into gulags.

[@perdedor3571]

this is precisely why we bought an older home that needed a bit of work in a good, well established neighborhood. We told our relators "it can be a perfect home for us but if it's in an HOA it's an automatic hard no." we looked for the better part of a year but finally found what we wanted.

[@VM-123]

@@perdedor3571 I have a real estate license in my state, and I would never ever live anywhere where there's an HOA lol. I also live in a very old home. The next time I move will be the same.

[@crand20033]

I have seven roommates and we don't have enough parking so we need to park on the street but we are not allowed. I am not the only one who parks in the street or doesn't have enough spaces in the driveway. There are many. Do you think they will fine me and foreclose on my house? I have hearing coming up soon.

[@wshauck9527]

Our township attempted to write and HOA type agreement. The residents protested and stopped this ordinance. Thanks for your work. People have rights that need to be defended.

[@amayasasaki2848]

My town will charge me $500 if my lawn isn't mowed to their satisfaction.

[@tombworld9012]

I wouldn't sue for money, I'd sue for permanent dissolution of the HOA.

[@Ryarios]

Difficult to do. If you managed it, then who would cover streetlights, road repair, maintenance of the common areas, etc? The cities won’t.

[@GilmerJohn]

​@@Ryarios -- Well, we don't have that problem. But we live in a semi-rural county where folks make specific agreements for these things. You might have 2 to 5 owners share responsibility for a well and water distributions system or for maintaining a common road or even for getting the snow off the road. Each agreement is functional but doesn't give your neighbors the collective right to tell you where you can park your truck or what color you can paint your home. Streetlights are often managed with an agreement with the local power company. Many folks have figured out that streetlights are a waste of money. Cars have headlights and folks can carry flashlights.

[@EPgeek]

@@Ryarios This is exactly correct. An HOA is responsible for maintaining any "common areas". Common areas are technically owned collectively by the members, so each member is responsible for a percentage of the area. Without the HOA, imagine in a small HOA getting a few dozen people simply to agree with a lawn mowing schedule for the grounds around the koi pond, let alone collecting money to pay for it. Scale that scenario up to include pools, gyms, parks....

[@Ryarios]

@@GilmerJohn I’m not saying there are not better ways of doing things. But in a subdivision situation, I can see people refusing to step up. And just dissolving the HOA seems like it would create other problem that may end up just as bad without something ready to be put in place at the time you dissolve it.

[@currentsitguy]

@@Ryarios Depends on the state/municipality. Here in PA, for example, you can't have private streets in a neighborhood, so HOA or not, the streets are always the responsibility of the muni.

[@rickkrough6167]

We have a townhouse in Pompano Beach FL for the past 18 years That we rent out 9 months of the year. Pretty restrictive HOA but we have never had any major issues with them and they keep our tenants in line. As a building contractor, oh boy! what a headache. Worst was a rebuild of a fire damaged home in a gated community. To approve the new home which other than adding a room over the garage was pretty much identical to the original. No big problem with design . they included numerous stipulations. such as work only between 8am and 5 pm Monday through Friday , deliveries only between 9:30 and 3:30. no parking on the street of heavy equipment and street parking of vehicles only between property boundaries. Pain in the ass but not a major inconvenience for me. The fun started when we got underway with framing there was two board members, that were there nearly everyday looking for something to complain about. It was coastal Georgia and hot as hell that summer, so to mess with them one day I set out 2 chairs and a umbrella with an electric fan for them to sit and bitch about us in comfort. They didn’t know what to do. My customer was in on it and some days would mix drinks in the job trailer and bring it out to them. We were so accommodating to them they just gave up and largely left us alone for the rest of the job.

[@slcRN1971]

Great way to handle such persnickety people!! 👍👍👏👏‼️

[@mjac8373]

We own a unit in a co-op here in Michigan, which comes complete with an HOA monthly fee. It doesn't appear there is any direct state oversight of these organizations. Found this out after some necessary research trying to oust a board member who depleted the treasury (she functioned as treasurer and president while her husband was secretary) with lawsuits and expenditures that no one was able to vote on or approve, including some personal use items. Apparently this was the second (or third) time they've done this, buying a "motivated seller" unit and then getting on the HOA board. It was very profitable for them when they sold their unit here, and we are still going through "special assessments" to cover legal fees from those lawsuits and expenses. Your advice to avoid HOA's is good advice.

[@frotoe9289]

Our HOA is fighting a couple lawsuits against giant banks. HOA foreclosed to get a few $$$ of unpaid fines and fees, sold the houses at auction for like $50K, which were instantly flipped by the buyer to someone else for $100K, who flipped it again for $150K. And gee... the buyer at auction was none other than (something like) DDR Realestate LLC. And DDR just happen to be the initials of the HOA board president (actual LLC ownership seems to be well hidden, so I'm left with just "golly, what a coincidence"). Only the big banks holding the mortgage didn't like that, since they hold the primary mortgage, and thought they should have had a say in this. And $300K of legal fees later, the HOA is begging the banks to pretty please settle and end this. So yeah, foreclose to get $100K. Spend $300K on legal fees, plus whatever more the banks are demanding. SURPRISE! Our HOA fees have quadrupled because of that (the letter explaining why basically said "paying legal fees and building a fund to settle two lawsuits"... they never spelled out all the above details but the story came out and I did some digging to find the court cases and yeah, that's what they did. But hey, I imagine the HOA president is sitting on $100K of profit from it.

[@jacqueslefave4296]

@@frotoe9289 Frequently these kinds of malefactors don't report the income for tax purposes, you can inform the IRS, either in your own name or anonymously, they will vigorously collect the taxes on it.

[@johnp139]

They have to file the paperwork with the county or state.

[@sinebar]

HOA's are non profit so if they were profiting they were breaking the law. Also it's my understanding that an HOA treasurer has to be an independent entity who doesn't live in the community.

[@jacqueslefave4296]

@@sinebar We may have beautiful laws, but in practice, District Attorneys, especially elected ones, want the headline grabbing prosecutions, and those that generate money for the government, such as traffic cases and tax cases. If you were to take such a complaint to them, if they didn't laugh in your face, they would explain to you that they have limited resources, and that your complaint is not a law enforcement priority. The civil courts would be a similar disappointment. It would be 10-12 months minimum before your case was heard. A cynical or time-pressed court clerk might see fit to delay yours further, and a judge might be annoyed with you for even bringing it. And don't even get me started about lawyer fees. The cost of an appeal may well exceed the equity that you have in your house. The typical mid-sized Municipal or county court system has time for about 250 or so trials per year. Yours won't be one of them.

[@johnshaw6702]

An HOA is the last place I'd want to live. Either you own the property or I don't, what I do with it is my business. I understand the concept, but that's how I always felt about it. A friend bought into one and was always working, so didn't pay much attention. The teenager he was paying to mow his lawn just stopped for some reason, so it grew to much for the HOA. One day he checked his mail and found a bill for lawn mowing by a neighbor he didn't know. I'm sure he went ahead and paid it, but I wouldn't have. I told him that I would have sent a thank you note, because he didn't hire them to do that. Of course I realize that the government does not actually believe you own your own property, but but that's another subject.

[@Reed-2big]

I had the association mow part of my yard and send me a bill. It wasn’t overgrown and them mowed over an azalea too! Their argument was that since they had to pay the company then I should pay the bill. I of course refused even after the HOA then tried to tell me I couldn’t throw them off that area when they were throwing weed killer all over my plants because it wasn’t mine! Make up your mind?

[@jeffharper410]

Full disclosure here, I am the vice president of an HOA board. The community we over see is pretty large 232 doors. They are older condos or 4 plexus. I would like to share with you why an HOA is important for some communities. We maintain the whole outside and common areas, new paint ,new roofs ,boilers on rotation. Sidewalk and drive way maintenance, laundry rooms ,outside lights. And keeping an emergency reserve. Half of us board members donate our time replacing lights, when we walk the neighborhood we pick up trash . We have cleaned all 58 laundry rooms. We are always shopping new contractors to keep operating costs down. I work a full time job and still find time to donate 10hours a week to community service in the condos we serve. It is all voluntary service,no one takes a dollar for our time. It should be an honor to serve on the board. And if you are out in the community you serve ,you develop a personal conection with the people you are serving . Dose that mean we have not served violation notices ? Of course not , but we also try to work with folks. 50 year old cheaply constructed condos are a challenge to keep up and try to keep the dues down. Underground plumbing is only good for around 40 to 50 years and is expensive to replace. A good HOA in a community of older people some on fixed incomes is very important, it is also an elected position, so if the board is bad it's up to the owners to vote in new members. That will serve them as they choose .At the end of the day , it's the board you choose.

[@fredcory2686]

If someone is is a condo or shared building I can understand the need to establish a means of dealing with shared things like roofs, but for single family homes, there is no excuse for an HOA.

[@dharmaslife]

I know a girl who lives in a community like that in orient and then one day out of the blue they realise the buildings needed major overhaul and because they had kept the HOA fees down over the years suddenly everyone got slapped with a $20,000 bill

[@steved0123]

I had my Harley parked near my window when I lived in a condo. A nice looking girl drove by, stopped and rolled down her window. I got all excited at the thought that wow she wants a ride! Then she started saying, "I'm on the board and you can't park your motorcycle on the lawn." That wrecked the day, needless to say.

[@ttww1590]

HOAs are a great example of the problems with USA in general.

[@TWX1138]

HOAs demonstrate both the problems with collective organization and the problems with selfish people. Lower-cost neighborhoods almost always need HOAs because without them, neighborhoods end up going into decline because enough residents don't take care of their properties, because cities are ineffective at enforcing CC&Rs or even municipal codes in many cases. Trouble is when HOAs take it too far, when they raise dues too high, when they enforce on things that don't need to be enforced. And it's very easy for an HOA set up with the best of intentions to prevent neighborhoods from becoming junked-up to take things too far.

[@andariegodelmundo2457]

I lived in an HOA community in NC. The house came with Tall Fescue grass that needed a lot of watering during summer. I went to the HOA and submitted a request to change the grass to Zoysia, a summer type of grass. They approved and I changed the whole yard ($$$). Zoysia goes dormant during winter, turns yellowish brown color. The HOA didn't liked it, even it was explained in my approved request for the change. We ended in court...

[@kendavis8046]

I've never lived under an HOA. But I've heard various horror stories from friends and family who have. Ticky-tack things like being forced to remove annual flowers from a flower bed, because the flowers that they chose were not allowed, per the HOA rules. Things like being unable to build a storage shed for law equipment. Things like being unable to build a wooden privacy fence, because only a steel rail fence was allowed. I buy rental properties now, but I will not even consider one if it is ruled by an HOA, just on the principle of property rights.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

I do security in Florida. 👮🏻‍♂️ About 4 years ago: 2017 🎃 I did a well paid shift for a nice lady in a swanky HOA 🏘. She told me how the HOA had a odd rule saying NO one can park any vehicle, SUV in their own driveway, home 🏡. Not a RV or contract van, truck as cars. You were mandated to park in a garage. 600pm to 600am Mon to Fri.

[@gatesmw50]

Ken Davis Our Florida HOA REQUIRES a 1 time only license to have potted plants outside our homes. BTW the license is non transferrable if you sell to a new owner.

[@douggodsoe]

Ditto.

[@CitEnthusiast]

A rental property we had in Texas was under an HOA. At one point they threatened to fine our tenant for the weeds along the fence. These "weeds" were in fact sunflowers. After going round and round with them the tenant finally informed them he was a city attorney and would be requesting all of their violation notices since he was in a protected class (i.e. not Whte) and would be studying their enforcement for discrimination violations. They dropped their complaint toot sweet! But in general HOAs are a scourge, abetted by the courts under color of contract law.

[@williammurray1341]

Walked away from a house deal when I learned that I had to get HOA approval for the type of roofing materials used. Nope. I enjoy living in a multicultural neighborhood. The vegetable gardens and chickens give it a wonderfully healthy feel.

[@Kevin-jb2pv]

Steve, one thing a lot of people don't realize about HOA's is that the reason they are becoming more common is because of laziness and corruption from city and county officials. Big developers will lobby city and county officials to DENY residential zoning permits to smaller plots of land, and one of the ways they do this is by getting laws and regulations passed that require new residential areas to be built with HOA's, and local governments LOVE to go along with this because then they don't have to enforce city ordnances regarding trash, weeds, etc... So they get to have their ordnances essentially enforced by HOA's that have almost zero accountability and run roughshod over people, and these local officials use HOA's to enforce their will regarding what people are allowed to do with their property in ways that would otherwise be wildly unconstitutional, such as selectively enforcing rules against signs and flags in people's yards that express views that they (local governments and the HOA boards, themselves) don't like. This is how you get these insane situations where people are sometimes faced with huge fines or even foreclosure and eviction because they put political signs on their own property. As a millennial, I won't be able to own a house until someone in my family _dies,_ but when I do I will sell that property and buy an empty plot on unincorporated land and plunk down a modular/ mobile home if the one I inherit is under the control of an HOA.

[@noremorse6898]

My subdivision has covenants, but for some unknown reason the developer failed to impose mandatory homeowners dues, so once the developer pulled out, the HOA died for lack of funding.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Dodged a bullet there.

[@vicnighthorse]

We bought a lot in a rural (4-10 acre lots) and found that the HOA there had died and we were told it could not be revived without a super majority of the home owners voting to resurrect it. We foolishly assumed that people in the area were the independent self reliant types and wouldn't do that. Two years after we bought a small number of homeowners claimed to have gotten the votes and the HOA was back and immediately started suing people. They lasted two years and cost people tens of thousands of dollars for ridiculous and petty things. After that two years they got voted out but because of that we never built and still may not even though we have very nice lot abutting a national forest and the current board is nice and reasonable. We just don't trust anyone with that sort of power anymore.

[@noremorse6898]

@@vicnighthorse Several years ago a group of people banded together and tried to resurrect our HOA, but they failed to generate enough interest from the homeowners, so that was the end of it. Many of the houses in our subdivision are now rentals, and a lot of the renters don't want to spend the money on water that it takes to keep their lawns alive. This is a Denver suburb, so we don't get enough rain or snow to do the job alone, and water is expensive, so we have a fair smattering of houses that have yards covered with dead grass and weeds. Sometimes a rundown house changes hands and the new owners go all out to refurbish the house and redo the landscaping, so that's always nice to see. Most of the homeowners on our street take pretty decent care of their property, with one or two exceptions.

[@roger16trekkie]

I have rarely seen anything as ludicrous as choosing to live under the thumb of an HOA.

[@Kitkat-986]

I wouldn't willingly choose to live under the rule of the government either. Both are rife with thievery and corruption and should be abolished. Every single corrupt act I've heard of an HOA committing is something that the government does against its citizens on a regular basis.

[@olddognewtricks9694]

I recently moved from Ohio to Florida. I never had a legit powerful HOA in Ohio. NOT the case in Florida. Down here EVERY development (90%) has an HOA. Especially ones with homes over 150k or a golf course. The HOAs are very powerful and very punitive over EVERYTHING! The worst thing is they keep changing management companies so every other month they go around the neighborhood writing down EVERY little violation of a rule written 20 years ago that was never enforced. You get notices to fix in 1 week or they will fix and charge you 10Xs the amount to fix. I live in the back of the neighborhood on a dead end street. I get a company truck. I parked it in my driveway for over 1 year then all the sudden a new management co takes over and I get a notice saying I can’t park a vehicle in my drive with ANY logos. They want to charge me $1500 a night! We just bought a new house. The first thing I looked for was NO HOA! When you look at houses for sale in Florida it is a big selling point in the listing that there is NO HOA! I have story after story.

[@OpenCarryUSMC]

I got on the board and immediately cancelled all their rules “passed” after the original HOA because they never filed them with the county as required by state law.

[@mikesimpson6757]

My wife and I moved away from the suburbs to a rural enviroment just because the HOA was operated by Fascists. They would wait until I was deployed with the military to harass my wife. They didnt have the balls to confront me about supposed infractions of the HOA By Laws while I was home. We would file an appeal and confront the HOA directers at meetings. A group of us seemed to put up a united front against the subjective policies they were trying to enforce. Best day in our lives was when we pulled away from the home for the last time giving them a single finger salute!

[@stevejette2329]

When my son bought a house in a HOA community, the neighbor came over and within minutes said, "Hi, welcome, we have rules here." He continued to be like that. The lady next door on the first day said, "The fence between our property needs to be replaced so I will need $4,500 from you." He and I fixed it with a new 4"x4" and some paint. She had been told it needed to all be replaced and being elderly, she believed the contractor. People.

[@stoopingfalcon891]

And that sums it up nicely. HOAs are all about the bucks, not the community.

[@tdrewman]

Where I live, the HOA is governed by a President who actually looks out for us. Back in 93 to HOA fees were $35, today they're $45. That woman is a pain in the neck sometimes, but she doesn't let anybody rip us off. She's always bargain hunting and she's not afraid to fire a landscaper in a heartbeat if they do a crap job. Then there's the other HOAs that just bleed you dry.

[@charlesdoyle3630]

Always one election from it becoming problematic

[@christian6911]

45% of Florida lives under HOA?! That's crazy!

[@jmmarshall5492]

Lesson learned here as well. No more HOA for me! We were in process of selling our house, and we received a letter from the HOA stating that unless we killed weeds in our yard, we would be fined $25 dollars a day until we remedied it or they would send their own company over to deal with it at our expense. Most of our yard was grass, but apparently the ratio of weeds to grass went over their limit. Another point of contention: when we bought in the subdivision, we were paying 600.00 in dues annually, but by the time we sold it had been raised to over 1200.00 a year. No end in sight.

[@andreasdesigns]

I would have been tempted to kill everything in the yard, weeds and grass.

[@njalsand133]

It's tempting to add the members to that as well

[@Harry-zz2oh]

I recently saw on Zillow a place in CA which has a monthly HOA fee of around $800. Considering the condo was priced at $1.2M I guess it was "reasonable".

[@misskai8158]

I pay $680 per month for my HOA. I would consider $1200 per year ($100 per month) very low!

[@maxsdad538]

I'm looking at homes (Encino, CA) with monthly HOA fees of $600+ per month. One house in the neighborhood (I looked at it, but only for curiosity) had HOA dues of $2800 per month.

[@mikeohandley6765]

I'm a retired home inspector (23 years). I once inspected a home where the seller - pissed off at the HOA - had repainted the home, inside and out, with every color found in a 24-count box of Crayola crayons. It was very vibrant to say the least but my customers actually kind of liked it. Their agent kept repeating to them the entire time I was there inspecting the home, "Now, please, don't forget, you're going to HAVE to repaint this entire home inside and out." They just nodded - I have no idea whether they actually did so or not. Now that your video has reminded me of that instance, I should probably drive by there one of these days and see if it has been repainted.

[@annezone6b494]

Retired Realtor giving advice. Read the HOA minutes for at least the past year. You can find out about legal action pending, big budget expenditures on the horizon, need to raise money by assessments, problems with residents, etc.. I have seen special assessments higher than $20,000 for termite repairs, sea wall repair etc.. If a resident cannot pay, they'll need to sell along with everyone else who can't or won't pay and they sell for less. Owners of multiple units may be hit the hardest. Find out how many units are owner occupied, less than 50% is a problem with many lenders and will negatively impact your sales price.

[@rickjones2303]

I worked for a cable company had a work order to turn off a person cable.. the HOA had me arrested. When I got out of jail the first thing I did was cut off all the cable to the hole place . My employer did not say anything to me and told HOA . Will fix the problem when are employe gets out of jail. F a HOA

[@tindoortailgator]

HOA's Need To Go The Way of Dodo's - Florida Needs To Abolish Them Statewide...

[@rockym2931]

Texas does, too. They tried to rein them in a few years back, but a developer from Houston beat them in the Legislature.

[@RayleighCriterion]

If you live in an HOA, you need to put a lien on your own property, so they can never collect on foreclosing on your property, because first in first out when it comes to liens.

[@workdaygourmet]

Most of my HOA board never actually read the bylaw & declaration. I found that out when I got myself on the board. Do not over estimate the literacy/work ethic of your HOA. Karens will actually make up BS rules that do not exist. Often times the people are more nuts than the documents - always ask them to cite the exact lines for the "rules" they're telling you to comply. Know that you have a right to see the finance. Hold the Karens to the governing documents. Selective enforcement is illegal. I would never buy another HOA property, but while you're in one (especially one that's mismanaged), you may as well put yourself in a position that best protects your rights.

[@thekerm8470]

Oh yeah, you are spot on. Anybody who chooses to live in an HOA BETTER read their covenants, and pay attention to the list of definitions in the first chapter. And watch out for board members or community members that try to have the HOA take steps (spend money) on things that are NOT authorized in the rules. Some of those Karens are real pieces of work - they like to pretend to speak with authority on HOA matters, but all they are doing is LYING to you (making up answers as they go).

[@workdaygourmet]

@@thekerm8470 They also have a habit of speaking forever until everyone loses attention span, so no matter how many times you call out their BS being patently false, and actually against the bylaws/state laws, they just repeat the same BS over and over pretending it's legit/relevant/true. It doesn't matter what wrongs they do if they can muddy the water enough so that no remedy is achieved. The upside is bullies are actually cowards at the same time, and do fold to attorney's letters. The kind of people that get their sense of self worth from power tripping on HOAs actually aren't used to real-life follow-through.

[@michaelwinter742]

My HOA has a policy that religious displays shall not exceed 12 inches of length on any side. They also have an annual Christmas decoration contest.

[@daleinaz1]

@@michaelwinter742 That's ripe for a religious discrimination lawsuit. If my neighbor can have a six-foot inflatable snowman or Santa, then I can have a six-foot inflatable nativity if I want. If they want to say that no display may exceed 12 inches, that's different. But you can't place a limit on religious exercise that you don't place on secular exercise. Just like SCOTUS has ruled that if a school allows their properties to be used by Scouts/AA/community groups/etc, they MUST allow religious groups to use the properties on a similar basis. They can say that no one can use the property except the actual school, but they CAN'T say that secular groups can use it but religious groups can't.

[@darrennew8211]

I had someone give me a ticket for parking sideways in my driveway. I just wrote back "cite the paragraph in the CCRs that says I can't park sideways, or educate your management company that no such paragraph exists." It's easy to get around problems of ignorance if you are *not* ignorant.

[@lelandunruh7896]

I moved from a very wealthy HOA neighborhood into a working-class/lower-middle-class neighborhood with no HOA. It's great! People actually talk to each other if they're unhappy with what a neighbor is doing. And while I do miss access to the pool and park the former neighborhood provided, I'm completely happy with the move and will avoid HOAs for the rest of my life.

[@larryhall7998]

I always laugh at people who move next to a airport and complain about the noise!!

[@jamessimms415]

Or close to a railroad crossing & complain abt the train horns. Well, DUH!

[@yadayada752]

Or next to the sewage treatment plant or a pig farm!

[@apersonontheinternet8006]

Or a gun range then they try and get it shut down. Wish we could burn their houses down and insurance deny payout, it would be justice.

[@currentsitguy]

@@apersonontheinternet8006 They'd go nuts here since most of us target shoot in our backyards.

[@kd7cwg]

There’s race tracks that have been around long before houses were built nearby shut down due to this 😠

[@jeffreyb.2817]

When I bought my house (my first), the first thing I told my realtor was, "No HOAs"

[@yadayada752]

I've looked at houses online that say they have an HOA with a monthly fee of only $2.00. I still would not live there.

[@mjordan812]

I've been in an HOA neighborhood since 1984. Luckily, it's pretty laid back and unless you're doing something really egregious there are no issues. That being said - if I ever move I will not live in another house that's in an HOA.

[@rottiek423]

I agree with you in principal and had the same thoughts after having a bad experience from a previous HOA I had lived in. When we began searching for our sceond home in southern California we looked at non-HOA homes for a couple of weeks and soon realized every neighborhood that was non-HOA looked like a character from Mad Max lived next door. The house you were going to look at was pristine but less than a foot on either side was horrible. I know the rules can seem overwhelming, but the best option is to ask the people currently living in the HOA how it is to live there. One of my red flags is when they restrict dog breeds. That is a big red flag, and I would not buy there.

[@simpletongeek]

Can HOA be bought? A development bought management of HOA, and it went to the dump real quick. I'm happy that I'm moving out, but feel sorry for the people who are still there.

[@angelachouinard4581]

Steve, I used to work for a developer and someone once told me that the reason Florida, Arizona and other states with large post WW!! developments were so HOA heavy was because cities and towns didn't want the burden of dealing with the added infrastructure, code enforcement and so forth. So the town's were actually the instigator's in developer's starting them in order to get their plans approved. It didn't take much arm twisting, the developers wanted a consistent, uniform look as a selling point and they wanted to include communal amenities like pools and community centers, so they started doing HOA's on most of these projects. If you or any viewers know I'd love to know whether this is true or false.

[@nowyouknowrealestate5703]

I used to live in Stafford County Virginia. All subdivisions built after 1988 were required to have an HOA in order to maintain the water runoff areas. Usually with that came HOA rules. I moved into a new subdivision in 1990. We were the fourth house. As soon as the developer turned the HOA over to the owners, I became President for four years. Each year we lowered our assessment the maximum amount until we got to $0. Then we quit meeting.

[@abemauricio7076]

I always hated HOA but only recently have I had to take a step back and ask “ don’t people have the right to live under crazy dictatorial control?” And as Steve said in America ironically enough they do. That said, something needs to be done about them that balances people’s right to live under an HOA and the public at larges interest in not having all of the available real estate bound up in HOAs.

[@Taskarnin]

I think the issue here is when HOAs take over large sections of neighborhoods and push other people out you’re effectively segregating people who disagree to live in less desirable areas. As a result they buy in because they don’t have a choice. That’s when it crosses the line. Most HOA exist because it’s a scam for the developer to continue to make money running the thing years after development is finished.

[@benjaminshropshire2900]

The most fundamental right is my right to make bad choices (a.k.a. the right to make choices other than the one "you" would, but most people see that as the same thing.) But two caveat emptors: 1) it needs to be an informed choice; if someone attempts to conceal relevant facts from the person making the choice, that is a problem. 2) if you make a choice and expected to enjoy the benefits, then you should be expected to suffer the consequences as well; don't expect me to bail you out for free when your choices sink yourself.

[@GeorgeMonet]

But most people don't live under a HOA by choice.

[@steveniemyer9288]

Here in Southwest Ohio in my parents subdivision, the HOA was developed so that the HOA was responsible for some infrastructure projects and not the developers. The developers ran the HOA and planned to give over control to the homeowners at some point. Once the members/homeowners of the HOA figured out what was going on thru voted the HOA out. The developers were back on the hook for the infrastructure projects.

[@Androctonus84]

I live in a state where HOAs make up a very large portion of properties, including virtually all new developments. Almost all my friends and coworkers live either in an HOA community or a condo. I never have and never will. A few people I've known were on their boards, and they were always the last people in the world you'd want governing any aspect of your private life. Virtually all the others have horror stories of one type or another. They often cite the "good" reasons for why they live in one, but none of them ever remotely come close to compensating for the idiocy you have to put up with. I'd rather deal with the problems of owning a 70 year-old home than ever have to live under HOA/Condo Nazis.

[@gorkyd7912]

All the farmlands turning into little HOA single family home prison communities is one of the saddest things happening around here. But the city and county governments have to "approve" each development, and they don't approve developments without HOAs because HOAs pay for upkeep so the city / county doesn't have to do its job or raise taxes.

[@jamesp7623]

How would you like it when your neighbor comes home with his new tractor trailer cab and parks it on the side of his house. (Your side) Thank God for HOA rules and regulations.

[@jamescouture775]

@@jamesp7623 I couldn't care less what my neighbor parks on the side of his house.

[@Iris_Collins]

@@jamesp7623 As long as its on his own property who cares what he parks there. My side of the house or not.

[@dennismccorkendaleii4685]

@@jamesp7623 screw you too buddy! Truck driver's have the same right as you do to bring thier company vehicle home. You wouldn't have a damn thing in life if it wasn't for a truck driver. An HOA is nothing but a controlling factor of people trying to tell you how to live your life. You also shouldn't have to pay extra just to liv in a certain neighborhood. I would welcome a truck driver to move in next to me with open arms. Of course my nearest neighbor is a 1/2 mile away

[@dennisd9554]

I am the president of my HOA, just 29 houses. I firmly believe that you should have control in the hands of the members. Never sub out management to a company because they'll just see it as a profit center to fine everyone. Also, if you feel like everyone on your board is a busybody sticking their nose into everyone's business ... then run for a spot on the board and change the culture. We had a guy in the past who liked to bully people with rules that didn't even exist. That stopped when I started challenging him to show me where the bylaws said that. He couldn't. But our HOA now has a culture of a light touch and talking to neighbors before trying to take any kind of legal action. If there are eyesores or problems, we talk to the homeowner, not run out and hire a lawyer. We had one member a few years ago that couldn't pay their dues and we all chipped in to pay them for him! He's doing ok now and paying and everything's fine and friendly. None of us want to live in an antagonistic neighborhood. My point is YOU are the HOA. Make it reflect the type of neighborhood you want.

[@nodak81]

Needs to be a law that a person can buy a home anywhere they like, including in the middle of an HOA neighborhood, and they are under zero obligation to join.

[@bespokearms]

Like right to work states, we can have right to live neighborhoods.

[@yunofun]

Sounds nice in theory but that would completely invalidate the authority of the HOA. It only works because you don't have a choice. While I personally would not live in one ever again there are a lot of people who choose to live in them because they want what the HOAs can offer.

[@GeorgeMonet]

@@yunofun Maybe HOA's shouldn't have authority.

[@yunofun]

@@GeorgeMonet HOA's get their authority from the people who live in them. You have two options, don't buy into an HOA, or try to convince enough members to vote to dissolve the HOA.

[@wickedguppy3715]

@@yunofun Then, when a public works project needs to be done, try to lobby individual owners for their cash to fix it. Good Luck! With no enforcement capability you will end up with a community of dead beat Karens. There are tradeoffs to dumping your HOA or its enforcement capability.

[@brianm6117]

One I still remember from years back was a HOA in Florida, and if I remember right they told a guy with a new F150 he wasn't allowed to park it on the street because it was a "work class" truck. It was the guys daily truck, and wasn't used for work, just to drive to work. The crazier thing was a Lincoln Blackwood, which was literally a dressed up F150, was allowed to park on the street. If I would have been that guy, just to spite the HOA I would have acquired a Blackwood, then put the F150 body parts on it that differentiated it. Something like that would have made the HOA's head explode because they would have been stuck in a conundrum. As you can tell I loathe HOA's. I'm already governed under my localities on what can and can't happen on the property, why would I want some busy-bodied Karens telling me that I can't work on my own car, or I whining about my grass because it's been raining and wet and its 1/4" too long?

[@rockym2931]

One pickup truck story like that comes from Illinois. A similar story comes from Frisco, Texas, which a few years before was a small town with cotton growing across the railroad.

[@johnp139]

Why would you need an F150 just to drive to work? Stupid.

[@1cbrigg]

Why do you worry about what someone drives to work? You're another candidate for HOA flower patrol!

[@DGardhouse]

Never again will I live in a place that has an HOA / Condo association. The idea of other people telling ME what I can do or not do in or on my own property is in my mind absolutely ludicrous!!!

[@GlennYoung-y8j]

I will NEVER purchase ANY property with an HOA.

[@elultimo102]

There was a house in Prescott, AZ on 8 acres, and had nice view. It unfortunately, had an HOA. The realtor said there usually is no way to escape them, once established. I was warned by out of state realtors to avoid HOAs like the plague. I listened

[@DarkPesco]

When shopping for a home my first requirement is NO HOA! Has been for over 2 decades. Never regretted it!

[@OSUCharger]

Old hoa I had cut a deal with an electric company that disallowed alternative power sources such as wind or solar. A-holes. Found out after buying.

[@pattilb1211]

My husband got on the board. Our lives have been a neverending living hell ever since. He didn't run this last time but the current board hates us. We just got a violation for having curtains and not drapes.

[@jbtoptc7327]

HOA's are made for people who enjoy sticking their nose into other people's business for a power trip.

[@jimwhitehead1532]

Years ago we lived in a small VA COA. We were told our nice door with glass did not conform and we had to get approval from a review committee. The problem was, the committee was defunct for years and the builder was bankrupt. They didn't want me to tell a judge it's impossible for a fictional committee to find me non-conforming, so gave approval.

[@ItsMrAssholeToYou]

There's a reason the highest praise you ever hear about an HOA is, "It's not one of the bad ones."