HVAC sizing follow-up (aux heat, shared walls, sizing for heating, "runs all the time," etc)

The original video this is in response to: • Old HVAC industry prac...
The condensed version:
• HVAC professionals are...

[@TechnologyConnextras]

I forgot about the anecdote! So here it is: I was helping a friend get quotes for a furnace and AC replacement. The sales rep claimed that a two-stage furnace "would cut your heating bills in half because unless it's really cold, it only needs to run at half-power!" which is _flat out wrong_ and incredibly misleading. The furnace would have to run twice as long to produce the same heat! You cannot imagine how livid I was at this rep - I nearly kicked him out of the house. You may imagine that this incident is a big part of why I get cranky about HVAC companies. At best, this sales rep was woefully misinformed, and at worst - he was lying to try and upsell my friend. I made it clear to this sleazeball in no uncertain terms that what he just said was incorrect and he had better not be using that line on any other person ever. Needless to say, that company did not get the bid. But the company who did? They're the ones who put in a three-tonner when that house needed, at most, a 1-ton. I had set up a little 5k BTU/hr window unit for that friend and it was holding its own when it was over 90° out. Now the new system cannot dehumidify effectively and a separate dehumidifier is needed to keep the home comfortable. I'm cranky for a reason, is all I'm saying.

[@Renegade605]

I *can* imagine, and I will!

[@cortburris9526]

Wouldn't running the furnace for twice as long (at half max output) use twice as much electricity to run the blower fan? Even though you're using the same amount of gas and getting the same amount of heat? It's not much, but that's still efficiency lost.

[@Sonic6293]

This type of sales tactic was one of the reasons why I got out of residential HVAC and went to the commercial side. I like helping people and doing right by them.

[@kurtzxcvb3481]

You can explain it like water you have a valve turn on halfway it runs twice as long or a valve that's turned on all the way runs for a short period time both fill up the same amount of water just different times elapses

[@kurtzxcvb3481]

Tech temp on space heaters when the season's over blow them out and then stick them in trash bags when you store them this keeps them nice and clean and efficient for next season and doesn't smell like dust burning off when you first turn them on

[@Mountain-Man-3000]

Did I really just sit and watch a 41 minute addendum to the 65 minute video you put out about something I already knew already? Yes I did.

[@youdontknowme5969]

No regrets. 🙂

[@Zyzzyx42]

And I will too.

[@tomalstar]

Same lol

[@k20nutz]

Yes, you could also watch the shorter one to see if it's better to send your friends and family like i did, but then everyone watched the longer one.

[@johnrauner2515]

Watching Alec patiently explaining the bleeding obvious to people he really shouldn't be wasting his time with, is like watching Road Runner. You know he's going over the cliff, but you watch and laugh anyway.

[@ststst981]

Just wanted to say my thermodynamics professor loves your original video on heat pumps and shares it with every thermo class he gives. So the message is spreading

[@StubbyPhillips]

A lot of people have zero concept of how much energy different kinds of things actually use. They'll worry about leaving a light on somewhere, but leave the oven preheating until "Wheel of Fortune" is over and not give it a second thought.

[@OrigamiMarie]

And then of course, if it's winter time and your home is reasonably well insulated, that extra preheating time doesn't really matter. That heat will just disperse into the rest of the home anyway.

[@SquintyGears]

​@@OrigamiMariewait until you hear that some stoves vent directly outside

[@KairuHakubi]

well, if it's a gas oven....

[@ClaytonDorris]

I see you've met my wife.

[@tim3172]

@@OrigamiMarie Spend about 8 seconds looking up the efficiency ratings for gas oven heating a room vs a gas furnace and heat pump vs resistive and get back to us.

[@TeknoMage13]

You have my sympathy. I'm a mechanical engineer and HVAC is in our competency. It isn't my focus, but knowing and having done the engineering behind it, I don't envy your position as general public educator.

[@mattsw104]

@@blitzwing1 I'm not trying to be snarkey when I ask this: help me understand why brits are against it because you don't have them I don't understand that logic. Get one and decide if you want it? Or, experience one? Are you all just used to being hot and sweaty? The last few heatwaves are examples of what's to come. The trade of a yet higher energy bill is not having heat stroke.

[@johnrauner2515]

"general public educator". There's your problem right there. Those 3 words should never be combined in the same sentence ANYWHERE!!!!! Frankly I wouldn't trust most of the general public to sit on a toilet the right way round.

[@BromideBride]

@@mattsw104 come to Britain in the height of summer. On *both* the hot stuffy days where ac might improve our homes we generally go outside or open a window. Offices, shops and businesses generally have air con as do many cars. But our homes really wouldn't benefit from the outlay. Unless from a heat pump air con combined unit. But even then it's going to be redundant for months at a time because we don't need heating nor cooling. Edit : by Britain, I mean everything West and North of London. The south east is its own anomaly. From my understanding of the US, you can buy an ac unit in a store and take it home, the cost is low and there's heaps of engineers who can fit one not excluding competent diyers. Here you would have to locate a specialist for everything and that's not going to be easy in most parts of the country.

[@CampGareth]

​@mattsw104 I think they meant against heat pumps for heating as they're not familiar with heat pumps for cooling. If I said "flurbledurb" can save you money and help the environment your first response if you're not familiar with the term could be that it's a scam. Personally, UK here and air con is excellent. I stop functioning in the summer without it. 35C and humid overnight for weeks at a time is awful.

[@halycon404]

​@@mattsw104 Brittian doesn't have the temperature swings the US does. It's not as big of a deal there. The US is geographically blessed and climate cursed. The same set of circumstances which lead the US to be home to 75% of all the world's tornadoes also messes up our temperature swing. Let me put it this way. The lowest recorded temperature in Helsinki is pretty close to the lowest recorded temperature in Chicago. Meanwhile the highest ever recorded temperature in Chicago is about 10c higher than Helsinki. Oh, and did I mention Helsinki is 20 degrees further north than Chicago. Chicago just should not be by conventional world wisdom. Our summers are hotter than they should be for our latitude and our winters are colder than they should be for our latitude. The US's climate is cursed. We don't get nice summer days. We get sweltering summer days that cause heat stroke while also getting freezing winter temperatures, in the exact same city. That is not normal for the rest of the world. They get one or the other, not both. Another example. Look at Houston. About once a decade Houston gets a snow storm that wrecks the city. Now go grab a globe put your finger on Houston and spin it, nowhere else on Earth at it's latitude has seen snow in recorded history unless it's caused by altitude, Houston is at sea level and gets snow. Nor have they seen it's record highs.

[@rifterzc]

Thank you for your patience, I am getting second hand frustration just from watching this. You are a main reason when our old water heater failed we went with a heat pump model, your efforts in this space are appreciated.

[@ellipticalsoul]

Just want to say I admire you continuing in Sisyphean fashion to explain things in an detailed and nuanced way in the face of overwhelming deliberate ignorance and people who will wade into arguments after only listening to a tiny part of the video. I have learned a lot from your channel over the years!

[@liryan]

He single handedly eliminated dishwashing pods for me. Heat pump is a bigger topic but we will get there.

[@christo930]

All while ignoring the elephant in the room. The costs. The lack of electric generation capacity. There are 10s of millions of homes in the US that have either gas or oil heat in places that get very cold. The US uses 350 million gallons of gasoline a day. There are hundreds of new planned data centers in the US, yet to be built. We simply do not have the spare capacity for all this stuff. On top of that, there are forces trying to retire nuclear and coal generation. Even over a 20 year time frame, this is simply not feasible.

[@Ultimaximus]

@@christo930 Does sound like a great reason to increase energy production from nuclear, and renewables, by a whole lot more, doesn't it

[@Kriss_L]

@@Ultimaximus I work on nuclear reactors, and the massive propaganda campaign against nuclear power is just mind blowing. So much wrong and fake info about nuclear power is taken as gospel.

[@christo930]

@@turtletrimmings But the capital cost of that heat is already paid. The capital cost of building hundreds of new power plants is not. Only certain types of gas fired plants even have the ability to get a minor efficiency gain. The thermal efficiency of even the best gas power plants isn't that great. Going by memory, it's in the low 60s. This is for the best ones. How long will it be before the energy consumed by running the power plant (it has all kinds of ongoing energy costs not related to the thermal losses of the generator), the energy consumed building the power plant and the energy losses of the power plant and transmission losses are offset by the increased efficiency of heat pumps? There are likely still millions of houses where you cannot have a heat pump. My house is one of them. I have no duct work. I have steam baseboard heat with only a single pipe going to each baseboard.

[@raphiseth6942]

21:30 always love when people find "problems" that an engineer also would find and solve, so it's no longer a problem. Like short cycling, "Yes, it was a problem that existed but is solved" is so often an answer.

[@HunterJE]

Similar to people trying to catch "methodological errors" in a scientific study they don't like the results of in the comments under a news article (more often than not things that if you look at the actual paper were of course controlled for one way or another but that fact was not appropriate to the level of abstraction of a 500 word newspaper article)...

[@noyb7920]

@@HunterJEOr the more common error of insisting that a study needs to control for some variable that isn't involved in anything the study was reporting on. I don't have any particular examples, though I did once get in an argument with someone who thought bitcoin was somehow a "store of energy" (like, say, a battery, but with a lot more hand-waving).

[@cherriberri8373]

@@noyb7920 this is definitely the more common version, people love to claim to see variables the scientists somehow missed... they're always indeed unrelated, as the study treated it lmao

[@davidcogdill300]

Alec, your outreach and dedication to public education in a way that utilizes the “bring up to speed and then introduce more info” method is both admirable and ACTIVELY improving the state of this country at minimum and the world at maximum. There are not enough people using their platform like you. Congratulations, and keep it up! Love ya.

[@NateMiner8]

Fan motor bearing wear is negligible compared to reducing compressor wear in regards to it always running, just slowing down. Also, as someone working in the manufacturing the compressors in the industry, this and the original vidso are amazing for spreading the correct knowledge and putting it in the hands of consumers to choose their heating. Dont let the internet get you down!

[@killingtimeitself]

plus maintenance is trivial

[@StephenByersJ]

Compressors are meant to run 100% duty cycle, yeah? Running multiple days straight isn’t a problem?

[@NateMiner8]

@@StephenByersJ yes, infact the commercial ones I am working in developing are variable and prefer to run at all times.

[@killingtimeitself]

@@StephenByersJ to my knowledge, the only thing between a compressor and 100% duty cycle is primarily lubrication, i.e. plastic compression piston (those just disintegrate immediately) vs an oil submersion compressor, which as long as you cool it appropriately, can basically run for ever.

[@lanesalbacka1821]

I would rather replace a blower sooner because it ran constantly than replace a compressor because it didn't

[@trimeta]

A good way to explain that a furnace with half the output, running twice as long, produces the same total output is to say "if you want to fill up a bucket, you can fill it quickly from a hose with a lot of water volume, or slowing from a hose with less water volume, but either way you're going to end up with the same amount of water in the bucket." Or to keep the analogy even closer, if we imagine that the bucket leaks a certain amount of water per hour, we can either top it off quickly with the high-volume hose (and then wait for it to leak down more), or take longer to top it off with the low-volume hose (and have shorter breaks between uses), but as long as the hose provides water faster than the leak, the same amount of water is going to be added to the bucket overall (namely, however much water is leaking from the bucket).

[@PeterFreese]

Or "the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long", and the energy in a candle is basically only determined by the amount of wax that it comprises.

[@jfbeam]

Indeed. I was just muttering something similar. (see my main post for the long version)

[@VADemon]

This is a poor analogy because when filling a bottle or bucket we want it done fast. EDIT: Ah I get it, it's about total capacity or energy spent. In this way it's okayish. In case of heating it's just to uphold a certain temperature. The only exception being if the furnace turns off overnight and has to reach a certain temperature by a set point in time in the morning. Also that's where I disagree with Alec who calculated for the worst-case scenario a 100% working cycle.

[@trimeta]

@@VADemon Why do we want to fill the bucket up fast? At no time was that stated to be a goal. If it's going to leak X liters per hour, filling it up "fast" doesn't help at all. And remember, in practice we're not trying to keep the bucket "full" at all times, we're trying to keep it within a certain margin (so we can go a little over the target level, and it's OK to be a little under that level too). The ideal state would be refilling the bucket at exactly the rate it leaks, so it stays at the precise level all the time. Filling it faster just means we wait longer between refills. In fact, if there's a minimum time for the hose to be "on" (that is, we want to avoid short cycles), then having the hose give too much water means that even the minimum time requires a large change in the bucket's level. So we're going to be farther away from the ideal level more of the time. A lower rate of fill would let us stay closer to the correct level: slower is *better*, not worse.

[@VADemon]

@@trimeta did you get to see the EDIT remark? When you want to fill a water bottle, you don't open the tap to fill 1 droplet at a time. If you want to provide an analogy, don't leave room for interpretation and escapes. Other than that, I am of the same opinion on the subject.

[@theinfernalcraftsman]

You did an excellent job on the first video. One small thing to add on furnaces running all the time. Having it run long cycle times also improves the overall comfort of the house by keeping air flowing and stabilizing the temp overall.

[@Sonny_McMacsson]

He did mention that.

[@AwesomeSheep48]

You can do this with your current systems as well even if they have shorter cycles, change the fan setting on your thermostats to be set to "on" instead of "auto".

[@JonSturm]

Running the fan longer is not free and at least with my system does make a noticeable difference to my power bill.

[@chublez]

​@JonSturm You must have exceptionally low power use compared to average for the fan to be making a big swing on the bill. Not that I personally would go for 24/7/365 as the previous commentor suggested with a dumb tstat set to "on" non stop. Edit: congrats on that low power use by the way. Not hating. Also to say a quick Google tells me you likely have an AC fan motor that uses much more power than my DC fan as well which could lead to the difference.

[@BobbyHill26]

@@chublezI could definitely see how having the fan always running could be much more expensive if you have leaky duct work, which lots of homes do. If your ducts are leaky, running the fan will be sucking your heated/cooled air out of your living space and into your crawlspace or attic, which would significantly increase your heating/cooling needs

[@Renegade605]

I have an inverter driven "portable" A/C unit in my home and can confirm, it never* stops running. When I leave home and the setpoint is raised, it turns off for a little bit but then back on at idle speeds as the outside warms up. When I come home and lower the setpoint again, it spikes to full power for a few minutes, then it's back to idle for the rest of the night. I also have a power monitor on the circuit. "Full power" is about 1600W, and idling to hold temperature varies from as low as 200W to as high as 600W when it's really hot outside and/or my gaming PC is running full tilt in the same room. (Which I have to say is pretty good, since the PC will also draw 600W or so at full load.) Also, I'd like to thank you Alec. It's a dual hose unit, solely due to your video on the subject. It's not something I ever would have known without you, and the unit is _remarkably_ efficient.

[@aspecreviews]

Inverter-drive compressors are awesome. I appreciate the efficiency, and I just think the sound of an inverter compressor gradually spooling up from off to max RPM is just cool. Pun intended!

[@LatitudeSky]

Can you share what brand it is? I need one of those things and for a room that also has a gaming PC.

[@Renegade605]

@@LatitudeSky it's a Midea 14k BTU/h unit. Model MP12SVKBA3RCM. Edit: for reference, the room is about 125 sq. ft. in a basement with 2 medium windows, neither of which receive direct sunlight. The door is always (except enter and exit) closed. And there is a constant heat load of 300-500W from my server rack, plus the ~600W from my gaming PC when it's in use. The unit is way, way, way more than sufficient for the space. There was a smaller model available from the same brand when I bought it, but it was only 10% or so cheaper so I didn't think it made sense. In the future, I may consider moving this unit to the main (large, kitchen + living + dining, room) and putting a smaller one in here. The exact model number might vary between countries. They actually make this exact unit as a reversible heat pump, according to the manual, but it isn't available in Canada. (Maybe its cold-weather performance is garbage, idk.) It didn't matter to me, because the room it's in never needs additional heating. Fair warning, I do have my gripes with it, but they're mostly minor and I'd still buy it (or other Midea units) again. There may or probably is better available, but having one with a wifi connection that could be controlled locally (it's on wifi but can't reach the internet) was a top priority for me. Canadian Tire had two dual-hose brands available and the other didn't have any network connectivity so I went with this one. Edit: Midea makes a cool window mount unit that they call U-shaped, so the inside and outside portions are normal sized, but the window only needs to be open a couple of inches for the refrigerant piping. If I didn't live in a basement where all the windows open on hinges instead of tracks, I'd give that one a shot too for sure. (The hinged window is an issue for the hose unit too. I had to fabricate a custom shroud that covers the entire window because the provided materials were designed for sliding windows only.)

[@Renegade605]

@@aspecreviews it is kind of a cool sound. Tbh, it's a bit annoying (during the ramp up only), but the Eco preset makes it ramp up so slowly that that noise goes away. If it were in a bedroom, I'd leave it on that preset or at least switch it to that at night.

[@echow2001]

been looking into an inverter AC just for the ability to soft start so i don't have to turn off other big loads on the inverter/generator whenever it kicks on to avoid overloading it.

[@johnadriance7792]

If you don’t understand that you need backup heat, electricity (generator), food you need to stop living day to day!! Things can go wrong it’s your responsibility to be prepared!! Your channel is awesome keep up the good work!!!

[@dualityk]

Continuing with the "compressor = car engine" metaphor, continuously operating compressors do exclusively highway miles.

[@shrededpudding5921]

Exactly. Inverter systems are kinda like downhill highway miles because they can run at 25% capacity (or lower if you have a light commercial model)

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@shrededpudding5921 Even my fridge are inverter based and regulate the speed. It slowly ramps up and mostly it runs at a very low speed, and sometimes even slower so you can actually hear the speed! (like an old ignition ball engine).

[@jamesplotkin4674]

Alec, you DO make the world a better place. Thank you for an excellent episode. Hugs from James and Derek in California.

[@bradlevantis913]

You are exactly right when you talked about people mentioning the “ya but what if” scenarios. I get that constantly when I speak to people about new things. Conduction cook tops, electric vehicles….. it is truly unfortunate that we have become a society afraid of progress. A relative was talking about how EV’s can’t work in Canada because it’s so cold. I said Norway seems to be doing fine and they a probably cold too (yes with a sarcastic tone). And the whole heating with gas is frustrating. Funniest one was someone telling me that they switched all their lights over to LED and they increased their power consumption. Absolutely ridiculous. But they completely believe it. I’m really glad you did this follow up. I understand what you mean about forgetting about other people’s knowledge levels. I have an EV and found your episodes about them extremely interesting but I have had friends, relatives talk to me about them and really need further information because it’s not their experience yet.

[@crashputer]

I'm not a HVAC expert, but I spent several years operating/maintaining some large refrigeration systems, so I have a pretty okay grasp of how the technology works and how sizing/etc is important. I'll be installing heat pumps in two locations this spring, and I found these videos great as a refresher and 3rd person PoV to help guide the actual purchase.

[@spazzman90]

Get a variable speed system and never worry about it....

[@fallenshallrise]

Interesting point near the end of the video. I can confirm that in my "dumb" apartment building when the sun is hitting the south side of the building, even in Feb, people in those south facing units are opening patio doors to cool off while on the other side of the building people have their baseboard heaters running at full blast because the only option is either on or off. A system that took the cool air from the shady side of the building and hot air from the sunny side of the building and switched them for free (or nearly free) would be absolutely amazing for everyone.

[@HenryLoenwind]

After reading your comment, I had to revise my opinion about our building codes, specifically the part that states that fully north-facing units are not permissible. It's so much easier to move heat around within one apartment by, um, leaving the doors open, for example.

[@jackhibbleriii]

I am so glad you made this follow up video. Short cycling is the death of most compressors. As an automotive repair shop owner, I see plenty of compressors that go bad due to either loaf refrigerant which causes short cycling, or a clog in the system that causes short cycling due to high head pressure. Some cars are even designed to this engage the compressor cycle altogether during a short cycle event to save the compressors life. Automotive systems that are newer, have continually running compressors that variate the level of refrigerant being pumped through the system so far I have not had to replace one at my shop, great job explaining as always!! People reading also need to realize that when the system calls for heat or cooling, that demand has to heat up, not only the air in the space, but also the items in that space, so the heat comes on, and it heats up the air, super fast because your system is over designed short cycles, preventing all the items, maybe your bed, to get warm efficiently.I think per your video, I’m going to install a reversing valve on my current HVAC system and see if I can step away from Gas myself (as I sit in front of my gas fireplace haha) keep making great videos!

[@Jon-hx7pe]

i can tell from the graphs you showed here and in original videos that your parent's ecobee isn't set up optimally for staging. it is upstaging when more heat is not needed and not downstaging. the out of the box settings suck - using time instead of temperature to stage, in the settings can go to manual manage staging, "enable reverse staging" and disable max time limit on a stage - so it will automatically only upgrade if the temp is x degrees below setting and then drop back down to first stage.

[@TechnologyConnextras]

It's definitely not how I want it (and go figure the techs didn't do anything beyond "auto," but the last time I dug into the staging settings I couldn't make heads or tails of some of the metrics. Sounds like "enable reverse staging" was what I missed - thanks! I'll play around with it more when I get a chance.

[@Jon-hx7pe]

you have to set it to manually manage staging or something. i haven't done it on a heatpump but only with a furnace. that contractor initially refused to connect w2 and just use the furnace board's timer and to add insult to injury jumpered w1 and w2 so it was locked on high heat thinking that is how to enable the board's timer. @@TechnologyConnextras

[@evilspoons]

@@Jon-hx7peoh for fuck's sake. it's so insulting that you pay for new technology and the people who are selling it to you can't even be arsed to read the instruction manual.

[@Jon-hx7pe]

that's the way it is. the people installing physically know how to install much better than you or i - but they know little about the equipment because they don't read manuals or attend training.@@evilspoons

[@jpbananaman]

This put a smile on my face. You're doin' great out there regardless of what people say and I'm learning so much.

[@Glokta4]

I'm that guy in Minnesota who will get a heat pump, but I'm convinced I won't have a bad experience due to your videos and the Undecided channel.

[@codedGiraffe]

Talking about HVAC is so tricky and too many uninformed people are too opinionated. Thank you through all these HVAC and heat pump videos for explaining it. Even though some still seem incapable of wrapping their head around heat pumps, I think you have still helped push the conversation forward online, thank you

[@VintageVash]

I'm glad you clarified that it's not damaging the motor because I always thought the longer it ran the faster it would wear out so that's definitely good to know. I've been waiting till my current setup goes out and planning on getting a Mrcool and installing it myself. I'm feeling more and more confident that I should be able to do it. And my wife loves your videos, so you actually helped convince her too.

[@varno]

One thing to know is that Variable flow compressor heatpumps, or as they are known here "inverter reverce cycle air conditioners" are more efficient when under loaded, and can run continuously with as little as 15% of their rated load. As such, for these, a slight 20% over rating so they can meet extreme events is potentially a worthwhile thing, if it puts your highest usage period into the more efficient center part of the AC power range. Separately, in most new installs a separate central dehumidifier is often more efficient, and cheaper than oversizing your heatpump for the load. It is almost always a better idea tonseparate concerns, this means: 1. having a heat pump for climate control (preferrably mini splits for greater efficiency) 2. Having a humidity regulation system with integrated humifldification and or dehumidification. 3. Having a system to remove and replace stale air, with new, filtered clean air in an efficient manner. This should probably include an energy recovery ventilation exchange membrane. These three together, when combined with air tightness and insulation will provide the best outcomes, and dont have to greatly increase costs. Also note that here, general VRF systems are used in many houses as a part of a "multi-split" system. These are not too much of a price adder, as the only additional cost is a few servo valves, and those are only a couple hundred dollars total in the whole system, not a hug price adder.

[@LanceThumping]

My dream setup is something like what you described. How beautiful it could be if builders and A/C companies moved forward instead of just getting the easiest thing.

[@known1443]

A heat pump already is a dehumidifier, so you don't really need the second one. A basic external exhaust fan will cover the third requirement...or just occasionally opening a window

[@varno]

@known1443 A heat pump can dehumidify, and some of the better dehumidifiers are heatpumps, however. The maximum dehumidification of a heat pump is the saturation point of the indoor radiator. This means that to reduce the humidity below the 100% humidity level indoors you must reduce the temperature of the indoor radiator substantially below the desired indoor set temperature and pump that heat against the indoor outdoor delta-t. If you have a heatpump in the air handler of a ducted hvac system, you often have to do this anyway, but with minisplits, you can have substantially larger indoor coils, with larger surface areas that don't need to go that far below the desired temperature, increasing efficiency. However, this does limit the capacity for air dehumidification somewhat. Further, to use a heat pump with coils inside and outside the building envelope as a dehumidifier you must cool the air to be dehumidified, and this is not always desirable. There is a workaround where you cool to dehumidify, and then heat the space to regain temperature, but doing so against the delta-t of the building envelope is less efficient. Finally, a heat pump is sized to work for the heat load of the building, not nessisarily for the enthalpy for humidity reduction in the worst case, and it can be that this does not match up. All of this means that it is more efficient, and gives better results to use separate mini-split cassettes in each room for heating/cooling, connected to either individual outdoor units or a shared multi-split outdoor unit and then use a separate dehumidifier on the fresh air system, treating them with a separation of concerns. This does increase the cost of the whole system somewhat over having a single centralised indoor coil in the air handling system, but generally gives better results, especially since you can use smaller ducting to each room for supply and return, as you now only have to supply fresh air, and the return balance, rather than air for the heat load of the building. It also reduces noise leakage between rooms and reduces noise from the hvac system when done well. So basically, you can do it with a single oversized heatpump and a fan return. You really do get a nicer space if you didn't though.

[@missamo80]

@@known1443 The advantage of an air exchanger system over a basic fan or open window is capturing energy during the air exchange. You can pre-heat or pre-cool incoming air using the outgoing air, reducing the overall energy required to maintain the desired house temperature.

[@varno]

@@missamo80 not to mention you get filtered indoor air, which is significant with the particles produced by internal combustion engines. Also you can get more air exchanges with the same power consumption. Finally there are ervs which also equalise the humidity of the outdoor and indoor air, reducing the requirements for humidity control.

[@mattfinleylive]

I bought my heat pump, (quite a bit on your exposition,) and I have been UTTERLY happy with it. Rated for 24k at -22F and after having done my calculations for heat loss, it performed EXACTLY as advertised... holding 68F at 6F ambient. (One loses more heat , of course as the temperature goes down...) Having said that.. In these recent two warm-winters.. my heating costs have been no more than $230/ month on an ancient 1100 sq ft house, With a propane fireplace for supplemental that helps to add moisture, (

[@20chocsaday]

I only heat the house in the cold months. Although I do wash in warm water. Electricity is 4X the price of gas 6:00 per kWh for me.

[@lukeearthcrawler896]

We keep our house at 69-70degF during the winter and 78-79 during summer. End of Jan and early Feb was very cold, but our nat gas bill was $144 (hot water is also gas). The house is a 2019 construction and has 2,800 sq ft. I don't know why so many people pay so much, to be honest. Maybe they have 80 deg F in winter and 70 deg in summer? I have a utility bill tracker where I record all our monthly bills (water/sewage, electricity, gas, internet and phone). Our COMBINED electricity+gas yearly bill was $2,195, split almost evenly between the two.

[@Etacovda63]

@@lukeearthcrawler896 insulation. Thats the reason, a new 2019 house will be well insulated.

[@20chocsaday]

@@lukeearthcrawler896 Good insulation in your house, I expect.

[@mattfinleylive]

@@lukeearthcrawler896 I don't have the luxury of having nat. gas. (Even though a line runs right through the township. Unbelievable, right? (- You'd think they'd force them to provide access, having provided the 100'+ right-of-way) Here in the Northeast, it's typically fuel oil, if you don't have nat gas.

[@adamalbee3433]

Just went back and rewatched your LED Stoplights video because of "But Sometimes!" and I gotta say, the jacket really does work for you! Glad you kept keeping it!

[@SocietyNeedsImprovement]

Your previous video was contentious only because heating is so important. Thanks for covering these topics anyway and doing such a great job explaining everything. Continue to be patient and explanatory. You're the king.

[@RandSoper]

Thank you! You are the reason that we purchased a heat pump to replace our old electric furnace about 9 months ago. Not only has it kept our house delightfully cool all summer, but also toasty warm all winter, but our electric bill has gone down by over $60/month since we installed it. That's the bottom line for me, my wife is always comfortable and and we spend less month in and month out. I have noticed that even though last summer was marginally hotter then the summer before and this last winter was a bit colder, we use about 40% less electricity month for month. Again thanks!

[@David_Hogue]

One annoyance with my oversized furnace that only runs infrequently is that when it turns on it gets warm quickly. Too warm depending where you are sitting. And then it waits for it to get cold before coming back on. A graph of the temperature is very spikey throughout the day.

[@aawillma]

This is a good point! My way oversized furnace does the same thing. I have to close the vents in the upstairs and active rooms, including the one with the thermostat. I've tried cycling the blower fan to move the air around in between heating cycles but it gets obliterated once that bad boy kicks on.

[@nunya___]

Depending of your particular furnace, you may be able to change the firing rate. Find a good tech in you area.

[@XxThePlaylistxX]

This is what I experience as well, my furnace will never run for more than 15 minutes at a time and it gets super hot, and then when the fan cuts out, it gets cold quickly, and the cycle continues. Id prefer a cooler furnace with longer fan run times to even it out.

[@mangamaster03]

Can your thermostat turn on just the fan? That will help balance the heat out.

[@SuperSpy00bob]

@@mangamaster03Some smart thermostats do this as a means of eeking out every bit of energy from the furnace, by manually commanding the fan to run after the call for heat has finished and only shutting it down after they see the temperature stop rising.

[@ScotBontrager]

I wish I had this video (and the previous one from the main channel) last summer when I replaced my AC/Furnace (TX). We went with an inverter system and the sales-person grossly oversized both the furnace and AC. I asked about doing a heat pump instead of a furnace and the price was insane which didn't make sense to me because I knew that an AC is a heat pump running backwards. It was 110+ºF and I didn't want to argue, I just wanted my AC to work. Moving from a single-stage to an infinitely variable (actually 1024 stage) system did reduce my electric consumption quite a bit. I understood your points in the original video. I'm sorry people didn't follow you, that's on them. Keep up the good work.

[@randomname4726]

It's so weird that American installers rip you off by charging so much more for a heat pump. Where I live nobody would ever buy an A/C only for their home.

[@shitpostbotmin]

I thought you were clear enough with long cycles not being damaging to the systems, but I appreciate the extra info here. you're absolutely right to be passionate about this stuff, there's not a negligible amount of energy that goes into heating homes, so it's super important to get this right

[@awo1fman]

I had a gas fireplace insert in Colorado. It was not the usual kind of fireplace insert -- it actually stuck out into the room. The way it was constructed, most of the heat actually stayed in the house instead of going up the flue. It was notably small, but I don't know its output rating. The house was "split level", basically a 2-storey house that was sunk into the ground about halfway of the lower floor. You came in the front door or garage, and went down a half flight of stairs to the lower level or up a half flight to the upper level. The fireplace was downstairs. There was at least one time in the 16 years I lived in that house that there was an extended power outage, more than a day, when it was 16°F outside. The insert had no thermostat, only a variable manual gas valve, and a piezo ignition. It kept us quite comfortable during the power outage.

[@GoldSabre]

I love experiencing how talented of a teacher you are; I get to learn cool new stuff and also watch you nerd out, it's the best

[@kenon6968]

I live in the tropics, I haven't seen an hvac system in close to 12 years now, and I find this the most interesting of your series...keep it up

[@gildedbear5355]

Solution! We rename "heat pumps" to "reversing air conditioners"

[@ClaytonDorris]

I always thought "heat pump" made more sense... At least in my brain. We are pumping heat from the outdoors to the indoors, indoors to the outdoors, inside this refrigerator to the outside of the refrigerator, from the air outside the water heater into the water inside the tank, etc....

[@BassRacerx]

Ac 2.0

[@ВалерийШадрин-л5г]

@@ClaytonDorrissome part of general public would understand "reverse air conditioners" easier and would be less prone to fearmongering rather than with shorter and more elegant "heat pump". It's simply because everyone knows what AC is and it doesn't need explaining, even a single teeny tiny sentence.

[@ptousig]

How about "bi-directional heat movers" ? :-)

[@elesjuan]

@@ВалерийШадрин-л5г Interesting opinion, given my summer electric bill is $480/month to run a heat pump and my winter electirc bill is $90/month to run a not-heatpump aka, forced gas furnace with a $90 gas bill.....

[@randalllewis4485]

Your videos certainly helped my family make the decision to install a heat pump just two weeks ago. We have a 6-year-old gas furnace but a 20-year-old AC unit. I couldn't convince my wife to move to a heat pump 6 years ago when our furnace failed and I'm kind of glad of that now because heat pump tech has changed a lot in those 6 years. And there are financial incentives now that didn't exist then. My wife agreed that we wanted to replace the AC before it failed and so moving to a heat pump system with our gas furnace to supplement on colder days made lots of sense. There is one more benefit that wasn't news to me but was to my wife. Here's how she put it: the furnace would push lots of heat into the house at once while the heat pump trickles the heat into the house regularly and that is an outcome she likes better.

[@Xanthopteryx]

As a Sweden i would say that, yes, things have come along in six years, but not that much. They were really really really good at six years ago too. 20 years ago you could get a heat pump that worked down to -20C. A side note: The first heat pump in Sweden for domestic home was installed in 1948. That is 76 years ago...

[@frogital]

Here's an amplification for not oversizing your AC: I had an air conditioner that was grossly oversized that often had its condensate lines freeze. So during hot days, it was entirely possible you wouldn't get any cooling. The Nest thermostat I had was extremely frustrating to work with too.

[@nunya___]

You had an air flow problem or metering device/ref charge issue. Over-sizing causes short cycles not icing of the indoor coil.

[@mirskym]

It's hard to explain physics and engineering principles to the general public. I commiserate ...

[@goosenotmaverick1156]

As an electrician, electricity is hard to explain to people at all. Sometimes. Actually most times lol

[@0106johnny]

@@goosenotmaverick1156It's sometimes hard to explain electricity even to electricians. I have heard so much bullshit over the years from professionals with years or decades of experience.

[@goosenotmaverick1156]

@@0106johnny i swear up and down to people that we just move magic with (mostly) copper 😂 I once you get deep in the weeds on it, I start to get lost, no lie. So I don't doubt that one bit

[@rp9674]

Proof: there are many perpetual motion vids (It's impossible)

[@tristfall1]

@@goosenotmaverick1156 So I should preface with: I'm certified in neither, but I've got a physics degree and a willingness to take things apart, and have taught myself / learned from friends who are certified over the years. And at least in my experience, despite electricity being the more interesting and more likely to kill you if you fuck up, HVAC (Or, I should say, Thermodynamics) is harder to explain to people than electricity unless you're getting really into the weeds of induced voltages and shit no one wants to deal with. Something about the idea that heat is energy is heat just confuses the shit out of people. What do you mean my outdoor air conditioner is hot? That makes no sense, my AC is supposed to be cold!... Well, you see it's transferring the heat energy from your house outdoo... WITCHCRAFT!

[@Grommish]

Townhomes that I've lived in typically have concrete walls in between the units to act as fire-breaks, which ups the insulative values anyway.

[@carsonevans6344]

As a physicist, I approve this message of heat pumps with ">100% efficiency". I think thermodynamics/statistically mechanics is not most physicists strength which might explain why some bristle when people say ">100% efficiency" but you are correct; they can move more energy to than they take to run.

[@davidg4288]

Right the temperature differential created by a heat pump cannot be exploited by a heat engine to run a perpetual motion machine. So no laws of physics (or thermodynamics) are being violated. There's still no free lunch. I realize you already know this, hopefully it will enlighten other readers (but probably just confuse them more)!

[@mctanuki]

i love what you do, and i love how you do it. please never stop.

[@ericjohnson2193]

The comments here are great! I was planning on installing a heat pump this year, and the support here (not that i needed it) is amazing.

[@dhawthorne1634]

Liquified gas is measured by weight or expanded cubic meters (if it was allowed to boil). Propane is almost always measured by lbs in the US. The standard tank for a grill is 20lbs, though 10 and 40 lbs aren't hard to find, either. There are also 1lb bottles for camp stoves, lanterns and heaters. (Flame King produces the only DOT certified, refillable 1lb bottles and you can actually get them 100% filled at home because of their vent system). I absolutely love that I can get away with being a cheapskate on my portable kitchen.

[@davidchsw]

Bulk propane delivered to homes is sold by the gallon.

[@Juniperrrrrr]

lol I was listening to this in the background, was about to pull into a Home Depot, right as you mentioned Home Depot (note, listening in the background like a podcast, and did not comment while driving.)

[@tayloralamb]

As an HVAC professional in the commercial space, I appreciate your videos! One thing I will add is that the most efficient heat pumps typically come as ductless splits. More conventional package unit heat pumps or split system heat pumps are not as efficient, and typically don’t work as well in the colder climates below freezing. I just upgraded an HVAC system in my house and I knew from the beginning that I was going to get a heat pump, but I will say that I am disappointed with its efficiency below 25°. I’m very happy I chose a dual fuel unit with natural gas (I’m in Nashville, TN - so not all that cold). I will also echo your comment about professionals not keeping up with technology. I had to really push the contractor I was using to get the dual fuel heat pump, and he did not believe the heat pump wood work below 40° or so. Most of these guys are good ole boys who do good work, but are not up to date with technology. That technology typically takes a couple decades to work into residential applications. Also, it is more complex to work on so be ready to look for a contractor a bit longer than you are used to, and get used to spending a little bit more on repairs. Overall, I think everyone upgrading their HVAC system should have a heat pump in some capacity. Even if it isn’t the fanciest unit that can heat at all times, most people will save money with a heat pump 90% of the year.

[@oglordblight]

I went all electric from oil. We have 2 heat pumps and are in the northeast US. We have 2 Bosch ids units, one with 15k one with 10k aux heat strips, 3 ton and 2 ton units. Our total heating cost is down, no more oil tank, spending close to the same money but our house is much more comfortable when heating and cooling. The pricing will go down now that these units are set correctly by Bosch. We keep wood for the fireplace, as we did with oil since it didn’t fire without electricity, and a couple space heaters but since this move, we haven’t used either. Good luck with anyone looking to convert. For us it was a huge benefit.

[@oglordblight]

Also, we used two installers, both had taken all the Bosch classes, both set them up wrong and Bosch needed to come out and set them up right. The Bosch rep said many installers still don’t understand how these new units work and anyone should be comfortable calling them for help. Glad we did.

[@eDoc2020]

In terms of cold climate heat pumps the Bosch IDS is a relatively poor performer. But on the other hand it's relatively cheap and backed by Bosch. The IDS is actually made by Midea (who makes tons of heat pumps for tons of brands). A no-name like ACiQ might perform slightly better but if something goes wrong you'll be glad you got the established brand.

[@Cowclops]

This topic is so interesting to me that even nearly 2 hours of content about it holds my attention for the whole time. I would watch an hour long video explaining to people why turning up the thermostat doesn't make it warm up faster, it just either makes it too hot, or your hvac system is broken.

[@oateater5044]

Not so with variable speed compressor heat pumps! They react to the temperature differential and can dial up the output, unlike most other heating and cooling units.

[@tomdibble8983]

Also should note that in a system with "aux" heat, often the thermostat will call for aux heat if the temperature differential is over a certain amount. But, at least in common systems, that is a binary: if the difference between the temp and the thermostat is > 2 degrees, aux and main are both running (and it heats up faster); if it is less, then only main is running (it heats up slower, but is much less expensive). It would be nice if thermostats had a "stat!" button or dial, meaning, "I want it this temperature as quickly as possible, no matter how much it costs", and then would only ever kick aux in if the temperature with main (or increase the rate if the temperature with current rate) was going in the wrong direction. Of course, then we'd need parental controls on the "stat!" button ...

[@tylerbalazic4592]

These videos explain it to such a depth that only us nerds in the industry know it so I don't blame laymen for not knowing things people I work with still don't understand fully. It's not simple, I've been in the trade for 10 years and I'm still learning as I run into new niche pieces of equipment from over decades

[@OuijTube]

People don't like the idea that the equipment will run all the time because it gives them the idea that power is being drawn all the time when the equipment is running. When it isn't running--no power draw. Even when you tell them that a smaller system that runs all the time can draw less power than a bigger system that runs a third of the time, because the bigger system draws so much more power WHEN IT RUNS, people still will resist. If you can hear a motor running, you can feel yourself spending money. I don't know how to break anyone out of that mindset, because it's pretty visceral.

[@TechnologyConnextras]

Damn, this is something that completely escaped me. And ya know what? I also don't know how to break anyone out of that mindset. At least, not yet.

[@OuijTube]

@@TechnologyConnextrasthe only thing I can think of is to remind people that it’s less like old equipment that only ran at full speed and more like water. The newer stuff might run all the time but it’s like a faucet that’s only open to a trickle instead of opening a fire hydrant every so often.

[@Kenkire]

Hey, thank you. I appreciate all the hard work you do for your videos. I am so grateful to have your insight into this and all the other things you do. My MIL was talked out of a heat pump by a salesman and instead sold her a huge and unnecessary HVAC system. I wish I had had this back then. You are awesome.

[@jajssblue]

The funny thing with the controversy is that if a person is concerned with being conservative, then they can easily take your sizing and increase it by 1.5 to 2x for a safety factor. That's still way smaller than the way they are being sized currently.

[@grandepatron]

One of the issues that comes in is how the HVAC contractor sets up the Manuel J to size the equipment. In a climate that needs more cooling than heating the design is for 95% of that cooling needs. So in Phoenix or Houston or Orlando the design temp is like 95F on max output. Regardless of variability. However that means that there are 5% of cooling degree hours that the unit won’t keep up. Manual J says that the definition of keeping up is a 30F delta. So at 115F if the temp inside the home is 85F then the unit is performing as per Manual J. However the owner is uncomfortable and calls the HVAC contractor for service. To combat this issue the Manual J preparer will upsize the equipment. In addition in construction of a new home or install of a new unit the technician may not know the efficiency of the windows by the builder at the time the quote so the Manual J preparer makes the program work for a worst case. HVAC professionals are not afraid they just have many different people they are trying to satisfy. Build Official, Home Builder, and Owner. Before you say they don’t want to do something maybe you should understand their perspective and the different entities telling them what to do. Everyone is an expert but only one gets the call in the middle of the night if something goes wrong.

[@noytelinu]

Hank Hill would be proud of your propane and propane accesories promotion.

[@eaglevision993]

Them fancy European heat pumps are bad for the propane sales community I tell you hwhat.

[@EricaCalman]

I don't object to strongly to saying "more than 100% efficient" but coefficient if performance is a much more precise and accurate term.

[@jimsutter2748]

Our power goes out pretty regularly (I live in NH) for 1-3 days. I partially heat with wood through the winter and when the power does go out it can heat the house solely, just a few of the rooms furthest from the wood stove get fairly cold.

[@mar4kl]

Haha, you finally said at the end what I was thinking from the beginning of this video: "But sometimes...!" FYI, unless your heating plant is an old steam boiler that lacks modern conservation and safety technology, your gas heating plant won't work during a power failure. I have a gas heating plant, and here's the order of events that takes place to make it turn on: First, a "demand for heat" is sent from the thermostat. What is a "demand for heat"? It's when the thermostat switches on the 24V circuit that operates the relays that turn the furnace on. And where does that 24V come from? Why, it comes from one of the circuit breakers in my house, via a transformer that steps it down from 120V to 24V. So, no electrical power means no demand for heat, which means the heating plant stays off. But assuming the electrical power is up and running, when the "demand for heat" is received, three more things happen: Since my heating plant is a hot water system, an electric circulator pump is switched on. At the same time, a small motor opens a chimney flue. Assuming the sensor in the flue sends back a signal to start the burner. This activates the safety valve for the gas, which, if the valve detects that the standing pilot is lit (it starts the gas flow, the pilot lights the gas and I start to get heat. My boiler isn't as sophisticated as it could be, so it the safety valve detects that the standing pilot is out, the action stops there, the flue remains open and the circulator pump continues pumping cold water through the system. 😝But the point is, no electricity, no heat, even with a gas heating plant. Modern forced air and steam heating plants make analogous use of electricity, with similar burner activation systems and, for forced air, electric blowers. What happens if your heat pump breaks? Same thing as if your forced air, hot water or steam heating system breaks down, and I have no reason to believe that this is less likely than a heat pump breaking down. I've lived with all three types of heating systems, powered by both heating oil and natural gas, and all have left me out in the cold, so to speak, on multiple occasions. Gas stoves: If you have a modern gas stove, chances are that your gas stove doesn't work if the electric power is out, either. Modern gas stoves, even basic models without whiz-bang features, use electric relays to turn the gas on. This is a safety feature that's supposed to eliminate asphyxiation and explosion risks if the electronic ignition can't work. The days of pilot-lit gas stoves are long gone.

[@eDoc2020]

One slight correction: gas _stoves_ in the US don't have safeties. While they won't automatically light in a power outage they can be lit with a match. Gas _ovens_ are as you describe. Almost all* have digital controls and electric gas valves. *Somehow I ended up with an exception. This oddball oven has an intermittent pilot. When you turn the knob it mechanically opens the first valve and the spark unit lights the pilot. From that point it works like a traditional standing pilot system (with a thermal safety valve). Once the oven knob is turned back to OFF the pilot is turned off. If the intermittent pilot it lit by hand it can be started and used 100% without an electrical connection.

[@FuncleChuck]

Technically true - but missing the reality and he addresses it at the very start 4:14 Backup power for a GAS system just needs to provide enough power to turn the fan. Which is 1/10 of the power to run a heat pump. Personally (and true for our Host) I can pull enough power from my BEV car to run a gas furnace, a few lights, and a fridge. Enough to get through a winter power outage.

[@hassnainvj]

your efforts to teach us Apes are admirable. i love your work please keep it up. Respect

[@smokingflowers]

The whole 'big government taking away your gas' thing isn't just a joke. I've lived in Spain and Argentina, both pretty progressive places, and in both, the local authorities decided to cut off the gas to my building for questionable reasons. Now I live in an old building where the fuses blow all the time because the system's overloaded. When that happens, I'm stuck either ordering takeout or eating cold food, which sucks. So yeah, holding onto your gas for as long as possible seems like a good idea to me.

[@craigiedema]

As someone who, among other things, sells Heat Pumps (or Reverse Cycle Air Conditioners as well call them here in Australia) this video series has been great. I'd add a few things: - Several Mini-Splits are generally more efficient than one larger ducted system. - Heat Pumps that are D/C inverters are better than a A/C one as they can spool up and down as needed. The ones in my house will ramp right down to 15W once the cooling/heating target has been met.

[@Razor2048]

For old fashion steam heating, if there is a power outage, you can often run them using battery power if you wire into the controller. Many will run on 24V and use around 5 to 10 watts. I have a very one that I have used on battery during a power outage.

[@Jonamission]

I really appreciate this content. Trying to bring rational thought to the internet is something I am whole heartedly in favor of. I have also not thought of dual source heaters and think the propane backup sounds like something that should be WIDELY adopted if people are worried about.

[@LaszloVisnyei]

Good explanation. ❤ Just to show another example, we have used this winter a mining PC for heating. It was running around 4-500W power all time, and even made some money over the heating.

[@TitanInvictusTube]

Mad respect for taking the time to clarify and own your errors while also owning others (clearing up misinformation). You continue to be amazing at what you do!

[@JimmyDorff]

The set of people who don’t want to learn about / install heat pumps and the set of people who think automotive progress stopped with their 1969 V8 muscle car are the same set.

[@shaunsaggers]

I think the fact that you have to make this clarification video highlights the need for HVAC installers to be better educated and do the sizing correctly. For those of us who have a reasonable level of technical competency in this or related fields, a lot of the answers to these concerns are obvious and intuitive. But if the greater public are confised by things as basic as the difference between power and energy, or how auxilliary heat would work... Then they need to be able to rely on honest, accurate, and appropriate advice from their HVAC installers. Having said that, it's good that these clarifications are here, so that anyone who DOES want to educate themself has an engaging and informative source of information.

[@SciruscL]

Any chance of doing a collaboration with Heat Geek?

[@jodyehlert]

I’m curious about heat pumps however, I’m in Saskatchewan Canada where we will regularly reach -35C and even-40C. I’m unconvinced that the technology is going to keep up with those sustained temperatures yet. I really enjoy your channel!

[@niceguy191]

I'm in a similar boat, and last I looked into it the switch isn't quite worth it yet. That said, the technology is getting better all the time so it's not far away. I suspect in the next 5 years we'll reach a tipping point (hopefully my super old gas furnace survives until then!)

[@ChaoticAphrodite]

Welp, um, CBC talked about this last year. You’re running off obsolete info. Ground source heat pumps work quite well at -30° and below. If you’re in a SFH, I would suggest a geothermal system because if the greater capacity at a lower energy cost since SK’s grid isn’t as green as Manitoba’s or BC’s and that efficiency boost will save you on your electric bill. But cold climate air source heat pumps can work at -30° and below as well. Supplemented with baseboard on the worst days and that should give you an electric solution.

[@DB-bw5fz]

Look at the studies that Manitoba Hydro has done. They have studied both cold climate air source heat pumps and ground source. In Manitoba, cold climate air source heat pumps with electric resistance auxiliary heat average roughly 1.5 CoP over the entire season. That’s based on overall energy consumption, which includes the defrost cycles, and auxiliary heat usage when the temps drop. Our climate is very similar to Saskatchewan….but our electricity is not. Our electricity is significantly cheaper, and is hydroelectric. A seasonal CoP of 1.5 in MB will still be more expensive than heating with natural gas in a high efficiency furnace based on current rates. If I recall correctly, you need to be running at a CoP of around 3 when your electricity is generated via Natural Gas just to match the efficiency of burning through gas yourself instead for heat. Based on the above…you’ll never hit that. Even ground source averages seasonal CoP of under 3 out here.

[@niceguy191]

@@DB-bw5fz Yeah, from what I've read you want to be in the 3-4 range with our climate (I'm in a similar zone). That said, I'm pretty sure the actual break-even point is lower than that because of the savings if you can completely disconnect from natural gas. There is a span of about 4 months when my gas usage is essentially 0 yet I'm still getting a bill for all the fees they tack on.

[@DB-bw5fz]

@@niceguy191 Depends what you’re referring to. Looking solely at running costs in MB, you need to average a seasonal CoP of around 2 to break even with the cost of heating with HE Natural Gas based on the current rates. MB also has the 2nd cheapest electricity in the country, behind only Quebec. SK and AB electricity rates are double, if not more…so a seasonal CoP of 3 or higher is likely required to match the cost of natural gas heating….which is all but impossible to hit out here with current technologies. SK and AB also generate a lot of electricity using Natural Gas. At that point, the more energy efficient and financially economical way to heat is to burn the gas yourself in your furnace, as the climate will not allow a high enough CoP to make up for the efficiency losses on the generation side. Don’t get me wrong…heat pumps have their place. The overall climate in the Prairies though isn’t really suited to them though, unless you’re already heating exclusively with electricity.

[@FuncleChuck]

Dual Fuel makes a ton of sense in a ton of regions. Had one in my last home, and I plan to put one in my new home too. All the efficiency of a heat pump for 300+ days of the year, and gas for the worst cold days and as an emergency fuel (if you know what you’re doing)

[@nickn815]

A childhood home of mine had a Carrier heat pump from 1978, I learned as a child it was an energy efficient way to heat a house, the bonus was having air conditioning for the first time ! On another note, 2-stage and variable stage heat pumps are more expensive than single stage. I’ve never lived in or rented a place that had anything other than single stage.

[@BalooUriza]

Hey, so, electricity does all of those four things in my home...and it's a new remodel. So I asked my landlord why he didn't get a heat pump and he said...like three of the misconceptions about heatpumps you said. And I was like, "Oh, none of that's really...a thing anymore...but what is a thing is that they're up to 5 times more efficient than the toaster coils we got!" So, when he converted an abandoned shop into a pair of apartments, I got a giggle when mini splits appeared on the building. Also we had a wicked cold winter this last winter and I had the highest electricity bill I've ever had that California's power deregulation and Enron had nothing to do with.... $177 for December and that was, admittedly, because my husband and his sister just completely forgot how to close doors and pick which side of the door you want to be on, at the same time we were running Christmas lights and experiencing the second coldest month we've had since living someplace that electric wasn't part of the rent, it's usually more like $90. House is a 2019 remodel of a 1923 Craftsman bought from a catalog (and the draft in the floor all winter says the floor is original and uninsulated).

[@MyPlayHouse]

Heat pumps are great! I have two of them 🙂Got a smaller one to just play around with it running of solar power. I love heating,, but I have really found that better insulation is a investment, that will make your life better year after year (especially if using wood for heating) Better insulation and your heating needs goes down.

[@capitalinventor4823]

The VSR HVAC systems sound wonderful and I’m glad that they are here. For at least a decade I’ve had the idea that sports complexes which include ice pads (hockey and curling) and pools could use such a system to transfer heat from the ice pads to a hot water reservoir that would be used to heat the pools, hot water for the building, and possibly even heat the building with underfloor heating (great for the change rooms and in the pool areas). Solar hot water heaters could be used to supplement heat to the reservoir. There would most likely need to be some form of additional heating, or at least a backup, so solar panels and batteries would allow the water to be heated with electricity. Of course the building will be connected to the grid but the batteries enable the complex to be open in the event of an emergency and the electricity is out for an extended period. Not for swimming and skating of course but to provide basic necessities.

[@JoelDDiaz]

FWIW, two years ago I purchased a dual-fuel heat pump for my house, and down here in North Carolina, it doesn't get cold enough for the backup heat to ever turn on (should've purchased the cheaper heat strips instead of a natural gas backup heat source ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ). It's one of those multi-stage units that can run at several dozen compressor/blower capacities. I would recommend these multi-stage system simply for the improved humidity levels in the house.

[@matthewsallman1700]

In reviewing HVAC products, it seems that a gas furnace is cheaper than an air handler and heat strips, so you may have come out ahead already. The air handler and heat strips was even more expensive than a 97% Efficient gas furnace by over $500.

[@JoelDDiaz]

@@matthewsallman1700 my understanding (not an HVAC expert here) is that the air handler is necessary for both the gas furnace piece and the heat strips. And a quick Google shows a price range of between $300 and $600 for the strips (Bosch EKH series) versus around $2500 for the furnace piece (Bosch BGH96).

[@matthewsallman1700]

@@JoelDDiazIn a dual-fuel setup the furnace replaces the air handler. It actually replaces both the air handler and the heat strips. Its advantage is that the gas furnace will almost certainly cost less to run than the heat strips when the heat pump can't keep up. The only real advantage of heat strips is that they can run along with the heat pump to put out the heat you need, thus allowing the heat pump to run at lower temperatures. With a furnace you can have the heat pump output or the furnace run, but not both at the same time.

[@chaughten]

Hi from Canada, I swich to oil auxiliary heat from 4 tonne heat pump at -9oC. I see a huge peak in energy demand at -12oC. Love your content!

[@electrodacus]

A two stage heat pump means that you have two compressors in series in order to be able to work at higher temperature delta. This is what allows heat pumps to "work" when ambient temperature is very low but the efficiency will still not be great. There is a reason is hard to find coefficient of performance vs temperature delta for most heat pumps.

[@joshg1244]

My friend once ran out of gas with his gas car. You should never buy a gas car because they might leave you stranded!

[@Jacklsovakia1]

This is why you should always keep an extra trash bag full of gas in the trunk!

[@razvanlex]

@@Jacklsovakia1 My friend used the extra gas and run out of it also!

[@austinpatrick2682]

You're a good man. I'm not well versed in HVAC, but I'm extremely well versed in Plumbing and Electrical and better than the average Joe in HVAC (Currently a plumber/ home water treatment technician). You've always been incredibly accurate and well communicated on this channel every time you've talked about something I can "vet" you on. This topic is no different. There is just one tiny thing I'll add kindly to this video, we DO need and have heat strips south of the Mason-Dixon line. Particularly here in the Appalachian mountains where it gets every bit as cold as where you live (albeit typically less snowy, due to the absence of lake effect). But I'm not holding that little oversight against you AT ALL as this isn't a geography video 😂. Keep up the good work! The country badly needs tradesmen, but we need them to be competent even worse. If ever you want to do a video on home water treatment equipment I'm your guy!

[@TedKidd]

Thank you for doing this. Also, conveying that homeowners cant count on contractors to do load calcs, well, for free, and if they do the bad outcome is their fault.

[@DakotahMiskus]

My parents live in the deep south where furnaces are almost nonexistent and they have a 500 pound propane tank outside that they used to run a small propane heater if needed and they also have it hooked up to their propane generator in case of a power outage they refill about once a year, but they’re also in the south so don’t need to very often and generally only back up during hurricane season but they love it

[@Zach0451]

I just wanna pump heat, man...

[@matthewjohnson3656]

It would be fun to have an episode on lawn tools. I recently got a mechanical push mower (the old timey kind you see in the 50s) and I love it. The speed at which I mow is not dependent on the power of the engine. I also have an electric mower and I have to charge the battery each week to mow, so it’s less environmental, and it’s slower. The only advantage it has is when dealing with much thicker plants and vines, and it corners where it’s hard to get a straight shot with the mechanical mower.

[@stevebutters306]

I work in a major hvac supplier. It is WILD what these contractors are okay with. Always check after an install, because these guys come back with insane stories. Dropping and then installing the now-damaged equipment, tricks to hide damage or mcgeyver a solution that'll die again by next season... once had a guy come in for a new board for his unit. We had it, 170 bucks wholesale price. Industry standard practice is 50% over wholesale is what consumer pays. This mofo calls this old lady, right in front of me, and says the part is 650 dollars, and stipulated that that is the pure price of the board and does not include his service, labor, or auxiliary materials bill. I almost didn't sell it to him, if it wouldn't have costed me MY livelihood. We get calls from people who do NOT know the difference between water or steam boilers, putting 60k systems into homes that would demand at LEAST a 95k. It's insane out there. For an allegorical example, I'm a long time firearms nerd. There is a TON of "boomer logic" or as we call it, "Fudd logic," about firearms. Very out of date ideas, or just straight uncorrected mistakes in doctrine, are pushed by old men who "did it this way since they were little" and will not see reason. You can point to a chart that shows a 17 round magazine of 9mm carries literally more kinetic total energy on target than 8 rounds of .45, but they don't care, because "the 45 won two world wars!" Lots of the same people in hvac. Guys who learned the trade in the 70s are acting high and mighty telling people how to do their job on fully modern systems that don't have the same problems or quirks. People are out here telling greenhorns to de-lethal capacitors with a screwdriver, while 10 feet away a customer is buying a new (very much not spark friendly) propane based heating system.

[@jamesnasium7036]

If you've ever browsed some of the forums intended for HVAC professionals, you would see many of the same attitudes and total lack of ethical standards on full display.

[@dagarnertn]

I love my Coleman camp stove. Comes in handy for a power outage!

[@cwaldrip]

It’s basically witchcraft, right? I knew it!😂

[@jamesnasium7036]

Science fiction writer Arthur C Clarke said it best over 60 years ago. “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”

[@Bombercules]

hey love all these videos, wanted to thank you in particular for the discussion about heat pumps' runtime. this should be obvious since everyone wants to avoid short cycling like the plague, but every year I see ac spokespeople in news pieces saying that turning off the system when you're away is bad for the system because it will run longer/continuously when you return. the jaded part of me believes it's to drum up business but i think there's some gap in understanding there, like running it too long is bad because it could be a sign of a struggling system (assuming you're not at the worst case design conditions like you pointed out). i've lived almost my whole life in phoenix, most of that time using time-of-use energy plans and while turning off the ac during peak hours is not comfortable, the units all hold up just fine and it obviously saves a lot on energy costs, not that everyone should do it but it's another option for people who might be concerned about monthly bills or have trouble replacing an entire ac system every five years or something.

[@rbdogwood]

Some good points. The sad bit is that you will have to explain everything to every person who either doesn't know or doesn't listen. Add on those that are just confused, forgetful or plain awkward.

[@Respectable_Username]

Speaking of extra heating issues when on a top floor apartment, I stayed at my friends' apartment about a month ago (utilities were being turned off in my area for maintenance reasons) and holy moly their apartment was so _cool_ . At outside temperatures where I, a top floor apartment liver would _have_ to turn on the air con, their middle floor apartment was still just right. It was mind blowing the difference it makes to have the sun directly beating down on your own roof! Unfortunately, I don't think there's any easy way for me to add additional insulation to my ceiling, but to be fair the heat is a price I'm willing to pay in return for not having to hear the clomping and banging from an apartment above

[@HEVTech1]

Hi Alex! I am sold on all aspects of your video(s) on this topic....but...if you have variable electric rates, that could be a reason to "oversize" the capacity so you don't have to use a bunch of electricity during peak hours :)

[@Richardj410]

Yep heat pumps work at lower temps but their efficiency drops. Thanks for helping people with this problem understanding this stuff.

[@Utubecridik35]

As someone who asked one of those questions out of genuine interest, thanks for covering it lol.

[@michaelimbesi2314]

The quote at the end about innovation and technology is so true it hurts.

[@Rocco4Jesus]

Hello, I’m an experienced licensed HVAC professional in NJ. I love your videos!! You do an amazing job on the production and content!! I just wanted to add that the resistive heat packs (toaster strips as we call them) are mostly used to temper the discharge air during defrost mode as the unit runs in “AC” during that time.

[@asmatec]

Hey! I'm in Long Island. Just moved into a home that has a very old central air heat system. And the heating portion has been giving me a headache. Do you work in the New York region or know any reliable HVAC people? I like my HVAC guy but he is very not much a fan of heat pumps because they might have proprietary hardware and be harder to repair etc.

[@Rocco4Jesus]

@@asmatec Sorry, that’s very far from me. I don’t know any heating professionals in your area. Make sure you find one that knows heat pumps though.

[@PhiloSage]

CO2 heat pumps and VRF would be a great combo for whole house heating/cooling systems. One system for refrigerator, freezer, hot water, HVAC, clothes dryer. Or any other heating/cooling needs. I really want a system like that!

[@mitchellfoltz6507]

I've been an HVAC tech in northern Indiana for over 25 years now and totally agree with both these videos. However, there is a caveat our current grid is ancient and we need more power generation.

[@owentheslug]

I swear this is on topic! Even though I was a little kid I used to read some of the random stuff in the newspaper all the way back in the 90s & someone wrote in to Dear Abby (there is a chance it was Hints from Heloise) about a fight she & her husband were having about setting the thermostat. When they would go out for an hour or two he wanted to turn it way down (like to 50 or 55?) to save money she wanted to leave it be. Abby had an expert help her reply. Most of us now know that it costs far more to get things back up to temp, but the expert also talked about how it's better for most any type of motor to run because the act of turning on causes a ton more wear & tear over any other act (in normal use). So having these "run all the time" isn't going to destroy them.

[@KarlWooster]

Another important point is that a properly sized unit, because it isn't BLASTING you with heat every time it turns on, will be more comfortable and the temperature will stay more even. This is one benefit to "variable"-output units. They may run nearly continuously, but the temperature will remain almost totally flat.

[@wes9731]

We bought our house back in '22. everything was propane but we had a NG line running down our road so we went to convert over to NG. Before the NG hookup it got too cold for our heat-pump to handle and woke up to the house in the 50's, hooked our grill bottle to the propane line to run our gas logs in the livingroom. Then borrowed a 100lb tank from a coworker until the furnace got hooked up the DAY the arctic blast came down before christmas that year. I was at work and heard nothing from the hookup folks until I got off work, was about to leave work early incase I had to light a fire under someone to ensure my heat was going to be functional.

[@jacuzzibusguy]

I’ve installed and used heat pumps in several different applications the last decade. In my opinion, they are amazing air conditioners and cost very little to cool a space, but are only marginal heaters and cost significantly more to heat a space than natural gas. I’m currently heating a 2,000 sq ft house with natural gas and a 1,000 sq foot workshop with an efficient mini-split heat pump. Both buildings have efficient spray foam insulation of the same thickness. Every month this winter was less than $100 for the natural gas and most months were over $200 in electricity for the heat pump. The heat pump building is half the size of the house and kept below 65° while the house is kept at 71° By my calculations, it is at least 4x more expensive to use the heat pump vs natural gas here in metro Detroit area.