Using 407C on An Old R-22 Evaporator Coil Swap

[@markjones7268]

I’ll tell you what. I love watching folks that I really respect showing real life experiences.

[@kawiracer236]

I start by brazing the underside of joints. Makes the joint easier to flow the solder. Anyways. That's a solid tip Monday! Enjoy.

[@rogertrump1026]

Piston size goes by the condenser outside always not by what comes in the coil. Good call on that and I would recommend always changing the TXV because the person before you could of installed the system wrong and that will lead to a gummed up txv or TXV failure eventually.

[@johnwalker890]

Good job Curtis.

[@gerarddasilva9535]

Looks like you still have a lot to learn. Guy.

[@jmead6121]

Nice just an uncased Coil Change out ..Slide out Slide back in ...yes sir ...works

[@mattbilodeau2433]

Got me a pair of them icons like you got and boy im loving em

[@ezekiellackey3439]

Thanks. These are really helpful for new guys

[@frankpirate6708]

Quick tip of the day cut behind the bell on coil and you will only have one joint. Saves tons of time

[@thesilentonevictor]

Great change over sir 😆

[@markbeiser]

Welp, glad to see I'm not the only one that uses a rosebud tip for all sizes of pipe!

[@rogertrump1026]

Put the filter drier on the inside to avoid it rusting out and manufacturers usually recommend the closer to the evaporator the better. Also always wrap your filter drier when brazing on it.

[@aosr07]

Lennox puts some outside in the condenser, exposed to the elements and sucker to get to!

[@rogertrump1026]

Agree with you on that. I put in Goodman a/c and they do it to with a five cubic inch filter drier. That's never enough. I put mine in the attic and use a 16 inch cubic sporlan filter drier. Also I recover the charge out the Goodman then cut off the five cubic inch, fill where the filter drier was with coupling and copper. More work but in the end prevents having a restriction in the line with a filter drier that wasn't big enough to begin with.

[@virtual_bomber5698]

Agreed. The only ones I don’t do inside are trailer units, I have before but it’s not worth the hassle in that case.

[@TheMax13542]

outside by the condenser is the way to go IMO, not gonna haul torches into an attic when doing a compressor, also wrapping a drier does literally nothing, and factory sizes their driers according to their specs ya if I change one ill oversize it too but its usually never a problem

[@clayevans3421]

Then why some manufacturers put the drier inside the condenser ? I think you have that configuration backwards. Closer to the compressor IMO

[@donaldpainter956]

We use 427a as a drop in for r22 I've used it three times since I started with them it seems to work alright the pressure stay the same

[@zack9912000]

We have been happy with 422b

[@jasontaylor9871]

What about the oil change for the compressor? Or is that compressor already using the correct oil?

[@carlosportillo8863]

Great video, Did you have to add POE oil?

[@tphvac87]

Good job, but where’s the trap? I may have saw it outside not sure…keep the content flowing!! Why did you dump into the suction side with the system empty, I was taught to dump into high side cause it’s liquid? Just curious

[@HVACGUY]

It was outside, it needed to be turned up.

[@billderby1527]

You need to learn that if you tee your drain into the emergency drain pan this supposed drain trap is useless as there is now a path for air from this connection.

[@virtual_bomber5698]

The only thing I don’t like about 407c is that it’s liquid saturation temps are about ten degrees lower than r-22. So a lot of the old condensers that lose efficiency over time struggle to make sub cooling and it’s harder to maintain the liquid state. You can hear the flashing of the refrigerant going in and out at the metering device. Seen MANY units make like 12 degrees sub cooling on r-22 and then make 1 on 407c. Still use it though.

[@markbeiser]

Not a problem with TXV systems, for fixed metered systems you could try a slightly smaller orifice.

[@virtual_bomber5698]

@@markbeiser seen it do it on TXV systems as well. It’s just where the condenser doesn’t remove as much heat as it should anymore, even after cleaning with coil cleaner. And the systems show no signs of restrictions For example, the system would do like on r22 210 liquid psi with 11 sub cooling and 60 psi suction with 11 degrees superheat. Change it out to 407 and the pressures would be extremely close, superheat would be about the same but the sub cooling would drop dramatically. The systems would still be cooling well (for their age) doing between 15-18 degree temperature differential. That’s why I still use it, it may struggle on sub cooling a little bit but it was still moving heat. It is a literal almost ten degree difference in liquid saturation, it’s just an efficiency thing. Changing the orifice could possibly work on some of them, especially on high suction pressures but some of them would be sitting around 60 psi suction so going to a smaller orifice wouldn’t be to good probably. I will try it next time though when the conditions are right.

[@jmead6121]

to me 407 C works great on an compressor chage out & or fix an leak on an Flat system ..add 20 % POE & or an product called super Change makes it missable ive done successfully over 100 retrofits most still running today & or finally upgraded to 410

[@michaelmckenna9022]

Did you change or add some POE to the compressor?

[@WhyUdothis95]

I'm surprised you when ahead and did a major repair on an R22 system. We're instructed to replace the equipment or fill it up with the caveat that we are only allowed to do a refill once. If they need to refill it once more, they need to reach out to another company.

[@Sctronic209]

Did that have Poe oil in the old compressor?

[@Sctronic209]

I used MO99 for the first time last week seems to work ok. We shall see how long it will last. R22 is way to expensive.

[@rogertrump1026]

Not all manufacturers use pistons. Nowadays it's going to all TXV. Call the company that makes that unit to see if it came with a TXV or if you can use a piston with it. Some units come with TXV and can not be used with pistons. Also, pistons can come in different sizes so be careful with that. I know for a fact Goodman pistons are always bigger than other brands and also on Goodman units they use a TXV kit depending on which size unit and refrigerant you need.

[@everythinghomerepair1747]

Nice job! Attic furnaces can be a pain.

[@llCoolBreeze23ll]

Nice work on this coil swap! I'm glad to see you extend the 3/4 copper at the AHU. I would recommend soldering the joint furthest from the system first. Less chance of burning up a TXV or insulation, as you'll need less heat to heat the copper

[@joerusso4645]

Wow Curtis, You’ve got all the assholes and trolls commenting today don’t you? Keep up the good work

[@briancarlisi2224]

Can you tell me the manufacturer of the adapter you utilize on the pressure probe? I needed this badly today with the Goodman I had to rejuice. Thanks!!

[@HVACGUY]

I think you’re talking about the low loss fitting. If I’m not mistaken they are made by IRP International Refrigeration Products

[@rogertrump1026]

One other thing look for the blue bottle called MO99 or R438a it drops right on top of R22 and in my opinion works way better than R407c

[@josejulian5116]

Nothing is made to drop on top,

[@realSamAndrew]

EPA 608 first thing you learn is no such thing as drop in replacement.

[@rogertrump1026]

There are drop in replacements r407c, r438a, r422d where all made when R22 became stupid high in price and they were made as loopholes in the Epa guidelines. If you don't believe try R438a and put it right in with a leaking R22 unit or when you replace a compressor and watch how close the temperature and pressures are. I do it all day in the South where it's balls hot literally 98 degree day today and 120 in the attic. As far as the EPA guidelines are total crap for people in the industry when homeowners can go online and buy refrigerant with no Epa license online all day and to make it worse on us in the industry they can buy equipment also and get away with registering it for a 10 year warranty. EPA regulations are a joke until they do something about that they can kiss my butt. Also with R410a refrigerant being stupid high now someone needs to make drop in replacements for that.

[@realSamAndrew]

@@rogertrump1026 if your argument is EPA is a joke, that's a different discussion. If you are trying to say there is a refrigerant MADE and INTENDED with full approval of the engineers to drop on top of R-22 already in the system without evacuating first, I think that's a stretch. If you say it works, fine. But don't say it's DESIGNED for that purpose. Official gospel in refrigeration is that you NEVER mix different types. I'd like to see what happens when you try to return the recovery tank with 3 different types and they get it to the lab.

[@Sctronic209]

Never put it on top of R-22

[@tedhicks5431]

Is that a r trap on drain and also your inspection mirror needs a crack im always cracking mine. Thinking of getting a stainless steel mirror .

[@dalekronk496]

Why did you not use nitrogen while nrazen

[@joshuaschilling4834]

why didnt u insulate the txv? they sweat really bad when that attic gets warm

[@aleshavaughn8417]

Have you used tdx 20 before

[@HVACGUY]

Nope

[@josejulian5116]

They don’t know what they don’t know

[@pedros.c6742]

hi u have the link to buy the access fitting i cant find it thk keep going learn a lot thk

[@HVACGUY]

I just looked all over. They were bought at United Refrigeration.

[@strayerhvac1416]

Did the outlet on the side of the house not work?

[@umminkug]

Should I use POE 32 or 68? I see people on KZbin using 32. I got local Johnstone telling me 68. Please let me know! Thank you!

[@drsinai]

hi, how much should a job like this cost?

[@biblebloopers946]

Have you ever tried Bluons tdx20?

[@blackericdenice]

What happen if I put 410 in a r22?

[@moonlightacmaintenance3232]

You forget to shut off power before discharging capacitor?

[@hinspect]

Sorry to sound like a dummy but could you have recharged the system back with R22? Thanks for the Video!

[@HVACGUY]

Could have. But it would’ve cost a fortune

[@sergiohernandez4163]

R22 freon is sky high. 1500$ for 20 lb jug.

[@kevinkrug466]

What does a jug of 407c cost you Curtis?

[@HVACGUY]

Just under $500

[@michaelhediger9088]

Do you like 422b or d

[@HVACGUY]

I’ve had some trouble with the 422B

[@TheFoxygrandpa69]

If that coil came with ⅞ and its a 3ton. I'd like to know how long the lines set it. Might call for a ⅞ depending on length

[@sergiohernandez4163]

For some reason on some brands if it's a gas furnace the condenser and coils are mismatch the coil will have 3/4 fitting and condenser has 7/8 fittings.

[@Paulie1232]

Hey Curtis, If I have my friend that works at a supply send you a nice hat would you wear it ?

[@HVACGUY]

I’d sure give it a try.

[@rolytech212]

👍

[@Bryan-Hensley]

How do you change the compressor oil? (I haven't watched all of your video yet, you may have shown an easy way) I haven't found an easy way. How much are you paying for a jug of poe? I can only find very expensive Poe oil. Changing the compressor oil is a pain. That's why I'm not changing too many over to 407c unless I'm pulling the compressor anyway. But I've replaced about 10 systems that someone changed to 407c without changing the oil which causes the oil to migrate to the evaporator killing the compressor. Oil pours out of the evaporator when I take them out in those system. We have several dead beat companies changing people to 407c without changing the oil. Heck we even have companies adding r410a to r22 systems around here. I think we are fixing to see a lawsuit about a company changing their system to 407c without changing the oil. It looks like I might be the expert witness in the case.

[@ICONBADGTA]

I wouldn't have re-used that TXV.. Nope no way! If your luck is like mine you would or will be back in a month to replace it... I would have put a .73 piston in it 3 ton R-22 size piston and be done with it. Those TXV's just go bad too easy!!

[@johnisraelhvac2019]

Good thing you didn’t use that piston. 410A uses smaller pistons than R22 you would’ve had trouble.

[@josejulian5116]

Tdx 20 works so good as a replacement that the prices are over $600 now

[@Jremi95]

I just did my first tdx 20 retrofit yesterday. Honestly not really impressed with it but it works

[@joep4143]

@@Jremi95 tdx 20 works but you’re not impressed? If it works to replace R22, it does the job without an oil change…that’s impressive. Did you want tdx 20 to cook you breakfast?

[@markbeiser]

@@Jremi95 If you did a conversion on a system where you had actual before and after energy consumption data, you might be more impressed. ;)

[@Jremi95]

@@markbeiser well I have an identical unit right next to it still running r22. R22 cycles are shorter. Tdx does make it less noisy though that is true

[@Jremi95]

@@joep4143 I e had better results with mo99, that's all I'm saying. They're both way better than 407c

[@mansourramzey7711]

So can you add 407C to r22

[@HVACGUY]

Some do. But, I’ll only use it if I know it already has 407C, or I’m replacing all of the freon.

[@scottclark2413]

That flex looks undersized for a 3 ton. High static? Yikes

[@redneckways1617]

I would had tied up the lineset by the air handler to keep the weight off of the evap to prevent future leaks

[@hughholt121]

Check out Ted Cook of South Carolina(KZbin) ...he made a dye jug to test 410 freon systems using a recovery jug. (Anti DIY HVAC)

[@drg424]

Noticed as usual,the secondary is not piped out.

[@tedhicks5431]

I can tell you have used a torch before

[@eablau]

In all your video's you are brazing with a dirty halfway clogged burner tip that must be hard when the flame goes in all directions. Why not buying a burner tip cleaning needle set. Having control over the flame makes brazing easier. At least you have flashback arrestors on your brazing torch (hopefully on the pressure regulators as well). I never braze with dirty burner tips on my torch. When the flame goes in other directions than straight I clean the tip with a cleaning needle.

[@markbeiser]

He is using a rosebud tip, it makes multiple flame cones, not necessarily all pointing in the exact same direction. Does look like it could use a cleaning, but those things are a bugger to clean because each of the holes is really small.

[@eablau]

@@markbeiser Take a close look at the video this is a regular single nozzle brazing tip that is dirty. It's not a rosebud! This one is easy to clean with nozzle cleaning needles.

[@markbeiser]

@@eablau Oops, looked closer and you are correct, yeah, he needs to clean that thing.

[@josejulian5116]

You can only use 407c on a R22 system if the compressor has POE oil, other wise you are a crook and turning an evaporator change out into a new unit change out, 407 is not missable with mineral oil.

[@realSamAndrew]

Did you hear him say the compressor had already been changed?

[@AJ-hx4my]

Txv and piston? What the hell?

[@babyking5763]

7 calls and an evap coil in one day? Nah.

[@clayevans3421]

2 of them weren’t home 😎

[@giga_chud89]

I work at ferguson enterprises and we are currently selling 22 for 2,000 a jug. Stuff is stupid high.

[@markbeiser]

Yeah, it's getting to the point where, even when it was only a partial charge loss, it is worth recovering the R-22 and converting the system to a replacement when doing a leak repair, instead of pumping the system down and reusing what was left of the R-22... I'm doing that on a 40 ton split system that lost maybe 25% of its charge due to a small leak in a refrigerant line. Customer is buying a couple of recovery cylinders to save the R-22 for use other systems on the property. Going back with Bluon tdx 20.

[@stephwaylonwells3218]

👍