Hydrogen Train NO MORE ! 4K

[@gb9727]

The 6xx numbers leave a massive gap in the uk train numbering scheme. We need a class 600 for real this time, some other class 6xx trains, and more class 5xx trains

[@axial1015]

Its quite incredible to see that a train so revolutionary in 1972 is now in bits, the class 31x's where the first to feature air suspension and powered doors. GTR is due to scrap theirs this summer in june-july time

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

Prototype proved its value. Glad this train was not send directly to the scrap heap and at least one coach will be preserved.

[@ic7481]

I know someone who worked in the rail industry, and according to them, the government constantly throws millions of £ on useless research projects. In one case, the government didn't even ask for a report or anything on one project that cost a few hundred grand! Money well spent indeed!

[@caramelldansen2204]

@@ic7481 Wait until you learn about oil and automotive industry subsidies...

[@hughroney6342]

Your videos are getting better, the shop work is a lot more interesting than the stuff you used to have all the time

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks for your comment Hugh.

[@davebarnett4262]

Cool that all the components were so modular and easily removed.

[@BONESS27001]

The components were easy to assemble to an existing vehicle. Thanks for commenting Dave.

[@mikehindson-evans159]

Really useful and informative; thank you for creating the documentary and posting.

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks for your comment Mike.

[@DavidPeacock1972]

Why not have a whole three car class 314 on displey? It would be a great asset to compliment the 303 and to demonstrate the evolution of the Argyle line, as the 314 would replace/supplement the 303 before the introduction of the class 320.

[@BONESS27001]

The Bo'ness site is short of space to display the 3 car unit. Thanks for commenting David.

[@DavidPeacock1972]

Thank you 😊

[@hoagy_ytfc]

It would take three times as much space and awards no significant value above displaying one vehicle. I'm surprised that's not obvious.

[@brushlessmotoring]

Very interesting, and so well shot! Any details on the kg of hydrogen on board, the pressure (looked like 5000 psi?) and the efficiency (kg/100km) compared to diesel or batteries per 100km (or miles per energy unit) - and from that, the range. Cost of filling infrastructure (huge issue for hydrogen cars is cost of infrastructure), lifespan of fuel cell - typically measured in thousands of hours, and crucially how the hydrogen was made, was it steam reformed from methane or somehow certified to only have been from renewables or from the grid during high renewable input periods? Maintenance, uptime, issues - AC Transit in Oakland CA has a pretty good study report from multiple Bus types, including hydrogen electric hybrids. Obviously, overhead electrification is best, but I'm struggling to see the win over batteries for hydrogen on trains - the wasted energy vs batteries is something like 60% lost, so the cost per mile, or CO2e per mile if the electricity is not 0g per kWh is much higher for hydrogen, and the fast fill probably isn't that important if it can charge at stations, and the complexity of handling must also be expensive.

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks for your comment. Due to contractural agreements with the company involved in this project I can't supply you with exact details of the hydrogen conversion.

[@edsutton115]

Great footage, thanks for sharing this!

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks for your comment Ed.

[@finlaylavery8408]

Shame the unit can't be partially preserved and kept next to it's old class 303 running mate.

[@MrJezza31]

It certainly isn't getting scrapped. All three of the carriages have a future, albeit not kept as a three-car unit.

[@BONESS27001]

I have not said this vehicle is being scrapped. Its being decommissioned and if the owners don't find any use for the coaches they will be scrapped. But that is very unlikely. Thanks for your comment.

[@hoagy_ytfc]

@@BONESS27001 Your description literally says "Scotland's first hydrogen train is being scrapped"

[@BONESS27001]

@@hoagy_ytfc That is correct David.

[@IAmEvilTree]

Interesting procedure involved in dismantling trains efficiently and safely. Sad to see the train go, but I'm glad to hear the project was a success; fingers crossed this prototype ushers in more hydrogen trains in the future. Seems like a very chill and informative channel you have here. Subscribed.

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks very much for your comment.

[@EQINOX187]

The project was not a success at all it was an unmitigated failure, but they will say it was good because they want funding money. Hydrogen takes a massive amount of electricity to produce and then that Hydrogen is then burned to produce electricity to run a train or car, only the electric generated is far far less than what was needed to create the hydrogen in the first place, ergo it would have been more efficient to simply charge the train of the grid or ran electricity to the train like we have for years

[@ledsalesoz]

@@EQINOX187 Yes, this, hydrogen is a con, only politicians, funding-seeking CEOs and the scientifically illiterate think it is a viable option.

[@thedave7760]

@@EQINOX187 Lithium batteries are more way more efficient but I concur just put the damn wires up, same for buses. If the tech is ready to do it then do it but buses trains and trucks cannot run on batteries efficiently yet. Great excuse to spend all the extra billions being green taxed from us with companies that pay our politicians to implement this nonsense, easy way to put public money into private accounts.

[@sithlordofoz]

Lithium gets mined from where for those batteries? What about the carbon footprint of the batteries?

[@SirHackaL0t.]

So what are they doing instead of burning oil to generate power? Electrify the lines? That would be the cleanest option.

[@owenchuarbx]

Final hurrah for the 314. 3 more classes of PEP left. Remaining 313s at Southern, Class 507s and 508s in Merseyrail.

[@aplane9625]

Now They’re All Gone

[@ScotSteam47]

Unless its green hydrogen, transport with H2 as a fuel is pointless. The other issue is we're talking 3kW of energy to create 1kW of Hydrogen fuel. Really not worth it at all.

[@michaelwoods2672]

The plan is to use green hydrogen for everything, but the question about energy efficiency is an important one. It all comes down whether you loose more energy using hydrogen or doing all the extra maintenance overhead lines need.

[@ic7481]

​@@michaelwoods2672Overhead lines don't actually need that much maintenance, and all the infrastructure and workforce are already in place. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[@666izzy]

​@IC45 But not every line is electrified. I thought hydrogen was seen as a way of filling the gap on low-use lines where the cost of electrification couldn't be justified.

[@ScotSteam47]

@@michaelwoods2672 H2 storage and use comes with its own maintenance too remember.

[@ic7481]

@@666izzy well, most of Europe's tracks are electrified

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

Hindenburg Mk II ?

[@petersmith4455]

hi there,this train could be made in to a catering vehicle for staff, working along the line like Manual stn or for P WAY staff working on the track

[@BONESS27001]

One of the coaches will be saved for the Museum Of Scottish Railways at Bo'ness. Thanks for commenting Peter.

[@Sammy1234568910]

wonder if we will see more hydro trains, guess we'll have to see what the test results say.

[@beeble2003]

I hope not. It takes six units of electricity to make one unit of hydrogen. That electricity should just be used to power six electric trains.

[@Mattpsb]

It looks like the class 314 so is it the class 314 but modified?

[@BONESS27001]

Very much modified into a hydrogen powered train but now decommissioned after testing and demonstrating. Thanks for commenting.

[@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire]

Why could they not send it to someone like GWR or LNWR you run a service with?

[@leonblittle226]

Because neither want this junk

[@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire]

@@leonblittle226 GWR would want it so they could replace some diesel trains.

[@henrybn14ar]

​@@leonblittle226 It was junk from the drawing board stage.

[@darylcheshire1618]

Sydney has double decker trains, Melbourne does not. In the ‘90s an experimental four car double decker set ran around Melbourne on trial. After a few years it was cut up for scrap which I thought was a shame.

[@BONESS27001]

In the 1960s the UK had many prototype diesels and most of these were scrapped. Its just the way of the world. Thanks for your comment Daryl.

[@nkt1]

The 4D? I like the look of the Tangara upon which it was based. So '80s, and quite unlike anything built in the UK.

[@Mustang00007]

Not enough traction from the motors..of course the ol Sydney Melbourne rivalry no chance.

[@darylcheshire1618]

@@Mustang00007 I think it was at least partially funded by the federal government. I thought the cost was $40M which may have included training and maintenance. Or my recollection might be wrong.

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@aussiepom Just askin... is there anything specific to australia about aussie porn, or is it generic? or do I need a better pair of glasses?

[@stephenpowell5912]

So what will happen to this ?614209 will it be retired or something else ?

[@BONESS27001]

The future of this vehicle is in the hands of its owners who I believe are St Andrews University. One of the coaches from this project will stay at Bo'ness for display in The Museum of Scottish Railways. Thanks for your comment Stephen.

[@SimonBransfieldGarth]

Interesting this is viewed as a "success". The losses in turning renewable energy into hydrogen and back to electricity again in the train are such that its hugely more efficient i.e cheaper (by a factor of 3-6x) to have overhead electric cables and just use electricity directly. Seems to be addressing a non-problem, given that just about all trains are electrified already.

[@BONESS27001]

Simon, I think your missing the point. This project was to prove the concept of underslung hydrogen propulsion using existing trains is possible. This was a success. Thanks for your comments.

[@petenikolic5244]

A Diesel engine is even better

[@beeble2003]

@@BONESS27001 But that's not a sensible point. A project to power a steam locomotive by burning bundles of £50 notes could be successful by that metric. The actual point is whether this is a good way to power trains, and it absolutely is not.

[@beeble2003]

"just about all trains are electrified already." That's not remotely true.

[@SimonBransfieldGarth]

@@beeble2003 fair point

[@thomasburke2683]

If storage space could be found, it would be lovely to have the set, or at least the two end cars, preserved. The paint looks fresh enough to last a good while. As a static exhibit, it wouldn't need to have electrical traction equipment restored. Perhaps Mr Yousef might be persuaded to augment the Boness funds. Wishful thinking, I know.

[@BONESS27001]

Storage space is a massive problem at the Bo'ness site. Thanks for commenting Thomas.

[@aplane9625]

@@BONESS27001why couldn’t they just be sold to another place

[@22whizzo56]

If it was successful, why on earth is it being scrapped????????

[@thorneisdrawn]

I think it was because it never really proved to be *that* effective, due to prices and how much effort it took for it to move

[@superted6960]

I think "successful" means it worked. Hydrogen is expensive to produce, awkward to store and may not (depending how it's made) be that green. Trials in Germany suggest that, in the longer term, electric trains powered with overhead is still the best way to go

[@neilburns8869]

I have no idea, maybe the UK government isn't really as committed to Hydrogen fuel cell technology as they like to make out. I think perhaps there's a lot of money to be made in the EV industry and the powers that be are much more interested in ££££, €€€€ and $$$$ and keeping people in jobs than doing anything that might actually risk that and given exactly how unpopular the UK Conservative government currently is then it's maybe some short-sighted, damage-limitation decision.🤑 It's a pity because not only was it looking to the future and helping to protect the environment but it was also creating much needed jobs and revenue for the City of Dundee as there was a company set up (or at least going to be) on the former Michelin tyre factory sight. Its not too different to the decision made by Toyota in Japan. Toyota have developed a car that is driven purely by hydrogen I.e. no EV whatsoever and this was part of the plan by the CEO at the time who was sick and tired of EVs and the number of issues motorists had with EVs but unfortunately his devotion to what the customer actually wanted was to be his downfall and the board of Toyota decided to relieve the poor guy of his duties and replace him with someone much more committed to EVs. I guess it's what they call market forces. Can't really say that I am impressed by it.👎☹😡

[@macflod]

@@superted6960 surely though electric trains for carbon reduction only effective if its clean produced electricity. I read they talking about making some hydrogen production plants off shore using power from the many offshore windfarms currently under construction

[@TheRip72]

Prototypes are usually supposed to prove concepts & theories only. Once they have done that, there are usually better ways to put the knowledge gained into practice.

[@johno4521]

All this incredibly complex kit; what did it all weigh??

[@BONESS27001]

The new kit weighed almost exactly the same as the removed components from the original EMU Class 314. All of coaches were weighed before and after installation of the hydrogen parts. A video of the vehicle weighing prior to stripping can be seen at: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGfQlZibjs5qY5I Thanks for your comment Johno.

[@cedarcam]

It's like 10000 a pioneer and should of been saved. The prototypes are an important part of history. Although there is not room there to keep it there is at other places.

[@BONESS27001]

Prototypes are only to prove out the technology. The companies involved then move on to other projects. Thanks for your comment.

[@grahamwalls9379]

what happened to the body & bogies of the carriage ? .

[@Seawiz21]

Just use overhead wires or 3rd rails. They are the most efficient fuel method. Never is storing fuel on board better than the shared energy of wires.

[@BONESS27001]

No 3rd rails in Scotland and some routes are not suited for overhead wires. Thanks for commenting DJ.

[@mrthunderbird1528]

Why can't it be renew like how the d stock got change because vivarail change it to battery or diesel train

[@edwinfitchett6033]

I'm surprised it wasn't kept longer to act as a technology demonstrator

[@BONESS27001]

The wheel sets on this vehicle were almost at scrapping size. The technology was proved on the Bo'ness branch line. Thanks for your comment Edwin.

[@supertrains156.66]

Rip the final class 314 209

[@kite7214]

Very interesting. Thanks.

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks for your comment.

[@angeley3756]

Very interesting thanks

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks for your comment Ange.

[@leonblittle226]

JCB have proved that a Hydrogen powered engine block can function in the same parameters as a diesel unit including matching the torque curves. The major changes are fuel storage and refilling. Therefore it's now practical to move onwards to trials with larger power units exceeding 500hp. What the UK should really be doing is designing a hydrogen power unit to rival the EMD 710 series and putting it in a demo locomotive, either using a redundant class 60 or the remains of 66048 which are stored at Longport.

[@5nowChain5]

its just a political fad for now. Hydrogen is reall expensive to make. Its cheaper to extract Methane from the atmosphere and compress into a liquid to burn, either in space rockets, carbon storage or vehicle fuel like LPG. fuelling systems are already developed, but no one makes a profit from new patents, so petrochem industry isnt interested.

[@edwardbyard6540]

@Aussie Pom Because the economics don't stack up. It is that simple. You take your input energy and in the process of making H2, you lose a good 70% or more. Even if the input energy was free (it will never be) then those losses result in a product that cannot compete with batteries. That's why H2 cars have failed - it is 3x the cost of electricity, and the disadvantages massively outweigh the one benefit (fuelling time). Save the "green" H2 for feedstocks, and electrify the rest. Be that OLE, 3rd rail or batteries.

[@chris8405]

To be honest there is no point. The Coradia I-Lint shows that hydrogen with added fuel cells and batteries can indeed power a train. However it such a deeply inefficient process that you might as well just set light to some banknotes and cut out the middleman. Hydrogen is a scam for ground transportation uses and is being hyped / pushed by the fossil fuel industry. Using either direct or stored electricity is the way forward, not hydrogen.

[@chris8405]

@Aussie Pom You realise that in your own country diesel trucks are now being converted to run on batteries, with a 300 - 500 km range? If that is feasible than a combine harvester will easily run for 8 hours with batteries. See the recent 'fully charged show' episode.

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@edwardbyard6540 sounds like a thoughtful brief position.... but I disagree with your assumptions. Perhaps where you live the sun don't shine much (either due to clouds or smog)... but many parts of the world have craploads of sun. In parts of the world solar power is curtailed at peak times, because it can't currently be used in existing grids. Who woulda thought that H2 could be produced by using surplus solar power, by electrolysis? Your logic fails when you say that: " in the process of making H2, you lose a good 70% or more. Even if the input energy was free (it will never be) then those losses result in a product that cannot compete with batteries"....... if something is free, then it cant compete with batteries? WTF? H2 cars haven't "failed". For such a clear thinker, you'd understand that there are two broad types of H2 derived power... ICE and fuel cell. In both cases the "one benefit (fuelling time)" overlooks the clear handicap of battery EVs- the range. H2 ICEs are not looking good at present because of the Nitrous oxides formed in the burn process.... but who knows about the future. If humanity had never sought to progress because of armchair or rocksitting critics, you'd be eating blackberries and running away from predators..... (you're not still eating blackberries and running away from vicious dogs are you?)

[@antonvann2576]

I presume the "green energy future" was a failure. Was it just the one train or were there more, were there to be grand plans for H-Trains across the country ?

[@BONESS27001]

This was just a test bed vehicle to prove the technology. It was a success. Thanks for your comment Anton.

[@smudgycat6750]

Why did they scrap the whole units, take the hydrogen bits away and preserve it somewhere, it was the first hydrogen powered train, why toss it to the curvem

[@BONESS27001]

This was a decision taken by the hydrogen train's owners Ballard Motive sytems. Most of the UK's prototype rail vehicles from the 1960s and 70s went the same way as the Class 614. Proove out the concept and systems and then dispose of them. Thanks for your comment.

[@Schmalfonzo]

"No micheal no no this is so not right!"

[@declangaming24]

So it will be a 314 again ?

[@BONESS27001]

It will NEVER be a 314 again. The pantograph and wiring has been removed. The original bogie traction motors have been removed and scrapped. Thanks for commenting Declan.

[@girlsundpanzerundrailwaysg8580]

Wait no they're not scraping it are they

[@colbyjames7205]

Is one of the carriages a DMSO being saved may I ask?

[@BONESS27001]

One of the DMSOs is being saved for the Museum Of Scottish railways at Bo'ness. Thanks for your comment.

[@aplane9625]

@@BONESS27001thank goodness I was worried the unit would be fully gone

[@thestaffordshirerailenthus5126]

How come it finished

[@BONESS27001]

This was a prototype and was a a complete success. The technology will be incorporated into new trains. Thanks for your comment.

[@jaketen2001]

@@BONESS27001 the entire point of this particular project was to retrofit, the existing fleet, though

[@jaketen2001]

So no, this project this particular project is a failure not a success

[@norbitonflyer5625]

@@jaketen2001 No it wasn't. they used an old redundant unit to test the technology, rather than go to the expense of building a whole new train before knowing tbe technology would work.

[@nkt1]

@@jaketen2001 Surely the Class 314 fleet is rather too old for that?

[@chakjhumrajunction]

Very Nice Video 😊

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks for your kind comment.

[@jimbob-jn6jz]

Why? Are they giving up?

[@BONESS27001]

They are not giving up. The technology has been proved to work and will be moved to other projects. Thanks for commenting Jim.

[@Peppercorn60163Tornado]

At least it done what it was put aside for, and was proven successful

[@BONESS27001]

The hydrogen project was a complete success. Thanks for your comment.

[@matty99]

@@BONESS27001I was just going to ask how the project went, I’m glad it proved successful.

[@True_NOON]

Its black on white, only electrified rail is the most cost and Eco efficient

[@BONESS27001]

Not everywhere can be electrified. Thanks for commenting.

[@annpeerkat2020]

which leaves the simple question of where does your electrickery come from....coal?

[@4693-v1m]

I keep reading how successful the experiment was, but it was scrapped... doesn't add up!

[@BONESS27001]

The project was to prove the concept and underslung technology. This all worked. Thanks for your comment.

[@henrybn14ar]

If it was anything like the similar Liverpool stock it will have been badly corroded. Aluminium panels and steel body framing caused electrolytic action and plastic foam trapped water.

[@AndreiTupolev]

Allegedly the project was stopped because the fire brigade said that if it went 🔥, they might not be able to get near enough to it everywhere along the line?! So why on earth just abandon the whole thing? That seems very very odd

[@BONESS27001]

Ive also heard this rumour and it's 100% wrong. The project was stopped after proving the concept. Thanks for commenting.

[@annpeerkat2020]

I trust you're not related to someone involved in developing flying machines, with that message you passed on.

[@bb-3653]

These parts look absolutely huge next to humans when removed from the train

[@BONESS27001]

All of the parts on the installation rafts were large and heavy. Thanks for your comment.

[@bb-3653]

@@BONESS27001 I agree

[@Nate0493]

Shame to just scrap it, I’d convert it back and have it a static display. All the 313/314/315/316/507/508 are fast disappearing!

[@thisis_mudchute]

And the 317. This video said that one of the carriages is going to a museum and some parts to a university. It might have more about where it is going to in the video, but I’ve only watched halfway so far.

[@caramelldansen2204]

Massive agreement here, Nate. The 503s suffered a fate I feel the entire 4PEP family might if action isn't taken; that is, none survived. Given the success of the Classes 484 and 230, it seems such a waste that they're so eager to send all of these adequate locomotives to scrap. Then again, Vivarail were rewarded for their good work with bankruptcy; good work isn't profitable, and profitable work isn't good. Money, what a wretched thing...

[@limwaik]

Class 315 856 is already preserved. Also Class 313 121 will retired to preserved (last unit with original dual voltage than all Southern units’ AC removed except keep DC only for running on 3rd rail only like 507/508).

[@jooster0081]

How sad the unit is not being preserved at Bo’ness

[@BONESS27001]

One of the coaches will be retained for display at the Bo'ness museum. Thanks for your comment.

[@colbyjames7205]

​@BONESS27001 hope it's the DMSO you need a lead EMU car to tell the history of the pre Class 314?

[@archstanton5603]

@@colbyjames7205 Understand blue /grey liveried 313 201 is being preserved by the NRM.

[@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire]

@@archstanton5603 The NRM is taking 313121 instead of 313201.

[@aplane9625]

@@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire but another company has taken 313201

[@bretty453]

Check out JCB's redesigned diesel engine which burns hydrogen. Fuel cells creating electricity aren't there yet. DMU conversion to hydrogen may've been a lot more successful.

[@bretty453]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmfConSqlph6oZo

[@ChilternRailPhotography]

nooo :(

[@christofsmanlib1385]

Interesting video 👍 But very disappointed to see the worker at 6m18s visibly perform the biggest NO NO in rail operations. NEVER GO BETWEEN BUFFER ENDS!!! Always duck under!! Anybody whatsoever who work at a railway knows of this!!!

[@BONESS27001]

The person in the video is a qualified shunter. The shunting loco has been fitted with an auto coupler/buckeye. The buffers of the loco could never be in contact with Hydrogen train. This is just the same as retracted buffers on Mark1 coaches when they are been buckeyed, but point taken and I will pass on. Thanks for your comment.

[@christofsmanlib1385]

@@BONESS27001 absolutely appreciate your explanation 👌🙂 Obviously without any detail just watching on a video, I simply made the comment. I work/volunteer at 2 different railways, so this kind of thing is drummed into us, so just wanted to point out. But thanks for taking it the way i intended, purely an observational comment 👍😊

[@buddmetroliner200gaming3]

is this a hybrid train

[@BONESS27001]

Not a hybrid. Hydrogen fuel cell producing power to electric traction motors. Thanks for commenting.

[@buddmetroliner200gaming3]

@@BONESS27001 oh now i get it what are they doing now

[@andybray9791]

I wanna see a diesel tank removed off a former 769

[@MelSabharwalFanTightPuthay]

why?

[@BONESS27001]

This was only a test bed to prove out the technology that was successful. Thanks for your comment Mel.

[@martinharper5112]

Scrapping a 'demonstration unit' is not quite obvious! If it works, OH, Err, the man at the top does not want it......

[@caramelldansen2204]

RIP to a real one. 😔

[@BONESS27001]

I agree. Thanks for commenting Caramell.

[@herbypumpkin1256]

Hydrogen seems a dangerous fuel on its own. The plan to put 10% Hydrogen into ordinary Gas seems more likely to

[@robertkeddie]

I'm confused. Doesn't anybody else remember that hydrogen was once pumped into our homes in the form of coal gas? And that was hydrogen mixed with carbon monoxide...

[@Xantec]

with correct handling, Hydrogen is safe. Did you know that turbo-alternators at powerstations use hydrogen to cool the alternators,

[@michaelwoods2672]

If hydrogen turns out to be to dangerous to use pure, and I do think it will, be no point mixing it with gas. At that point I think synthetic fuels are the main thing that's going to replace gas.

[@stuarthart3370]

please remember the train doesn't burn hydrogen like a Toyota Mitai, or other makes. It uses a fuel cell which is not new technology, but it's very effective, if you can derive the fuel from electrolysis, or whatever, and then processing to very high pressure. Fuel cells are safe as long as they're used correctly. The old town gas that could kill you by simply breathing it, was 49% hydrogen. So we've used it a lot with a low rate of mortality in the UK and other regions. it's all very confusing. Derivation is key and you can choose from 3 colours LOL I won't go on, I'll get me jacket. I think this 314 should be saved from the scrap yard. It's history in the making. Thanks for the great camera work.

[@daniellewis1789]

Hydrogen is less chemically complex and cleaner than fossil fuels. Hydrocarbons are literally hydrogen mixed with carbon. Hydrogen leaks and spills also clean themselves up without the long term hazards petroleum spills have. The issue is storing hydrogen and producing hydrogen in a safe and cheap way. We can do safe and clean, or we can do cheap, but both is as yet difficult to do.

[@jamescrawford2042]

so sad to see technology which should have made trains better for the planet scraped

[@BONESS27001]

This project has been scrapped but the technology gained from this will be used in future projects. Thanks for your comment James.

[@thesloaneranger1]

That is a real shame, as it was a successful project. I love steam and diesel power..... the hydrogen powered train was equally as exciting, so its sad to see it going.

[@annpeerkat2020]

I got very excited....until I came to the "and diesel" after steam. Oh well.....

[@69voxbeetle]

It's a shame they couldn't stick it out long enough to work out the bugs. "If it catches fire we won't be able to get to it to put it out...." to which I say Bullshit. It's just a dam shame.

[@BONESS27001]

I can't comment on the issues of fire. I agree that its a shame that Ballard pulled the plug on this project. Thanks for commenting.

[@andyash5675]

Given that it was a demonstrator and the test results were collected, maybe they should have set fire to it with some firefighters present? That way the firefighters would have been able decide for themselves.

[@BONESS27001]

@@andyash5675 Not a good idea Andy. Thanks for your comment.

[@caledonianrailway1233]

It should be in the museum not in bits

[@BONESS27001]

The SRPS site is short of space to house the 3 car unit.

[@caledonianrailway1233]

@@BONESS27001 what about just one bit

[@kevvynolan8753]

Hydrogen over battery power any day!

[@beeble2003]

Good! Hydrogen is an appalling fuel for trains. It takes six units of electricity to make one unit of hydrogen -- just use that electricity directly to power six trains instead of one!

[@jammiedodger7040]

Hydrogen and Biofuel is the future.

[@BONESS27001]

I agree. Thanks for your comments.

[@PhilMacVee]

The Museum Piece: The First .... built in Scotland, the pioneering engineering, world's first? Where the H2 experiment dies. Why do we seem to be at the forefront of everything and at the tail end of funding for those successes to be ecomomic and generate international sales and recognition of our engineering prowess?

[@PhilMacVee]

Oh, I just remembered: the Scots are too wee, too poor and too stupid!

[@BlackAndDeckerBoy]

It’s not a UK first let alone a World First. Two class 319s were converted to hydrogen and one ran on the mainline in Warwickshir before the 314 was converted. In Germany, there are production Hydrogen MUs in passenger service already. Lessons learned indicate hydrogen is not a suitable power source for U.K. passenger trains.

[@PhilMacVee]

@@BlackAndDeckerBoy The first hydrogen modified propulsion MU system built in Scotland? The first trialled in Scotland? The "world's first?" was a question indicated by the question mark. Please tell me why In Germany, there are production Hydrogen MUs in passenger service already. it works in Germany for MUs and "Lessons learned indicate hydrogen is not a suitable power source for U.K. passenger trains" Tell me more.

[@BlackAndDeckerBoy]

@@PhilMacVee storing hydrogen needs too much space, UK loading gauge too small for roof mounted (as they’ve done in Germany), current rules prohibit tanks underneath I believe. Range isn’t good. Question marks on allowing them to operate through tunnels (including in Germany) Hydrogen is also very expensive. So lots of downsides. Battery and OLE far better.

[@Shed87AProductions]

Literally pointless, should have kept it

[@iareid8255]

I presume this project is aimed at going 'green'? Unfortunately the first step in producing hydrogen that does not involve CO2 emissions is looking less than promising. Inefficient, expensive and far too small a volume given the lofty aims of using hydrogen for heavy transport, aviation, steel and cement manufacture and possibly home heating? There doesn't seem to be any real connected thinking by government.

[@BONESS27001]

The hydrogen used in this project wasn't green hydrogen (I think). This was a test bed to prove out the concept. Thanks for your comments.

[@iareid8255]

@@BONESS27001 that may well be so but there is no drive to use hydrogen made from methane as it still emits CO2.

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@iareid8255 dohhh doggsy! thanks for your wisdom! I never realised that electrolysis was a fantasy in my brain, and didn't actually exist! Now I know that doggsy has told the world that hydrogen can only be produced from methane! ahem....or from coal... or from electrolysis... or from.....

[@iareid8255]

Ann, you misunderstand me, it's a fantasy that hydrogen can be produced from renewable generation. It is inefficient to begin with then add intermittency of supply power and finally the quantity that is required makes green hydrogen a fantasy, not a practiacl reality.

[@hachwarwickshire292]

I have a pound £1. For a bet. 1. Batteries made of expensive stuff from the ground. Worth fighting wars over. 2. Hydrogen. The most abundant element in the known Universe. "I'll bet on 2." 😊 May be there is a God ?

[@mattval6293]

Soo sad all br stock being killed cor crappy new srock without any character. This why im walking away from my hobby. Rip dear unit

[@jasongoulden2938]

Same here I grew up with the 315s running past my house, managed to get a run from mount florida on a pair of 314s a few years back felt like I was back at home they’re identical except 3 car obviously, these units and many others would of soldiered on for many more years I reckon

[@TheosTrainsWalesOfficial]

Are you fucking serious?! Why can't we bring technology from the past into the future?!

[@BONESS27001]

Steady Theo. Im only reporting the facts.

[@stuarthart3370]

come on Theo's Trains Wales, the journalist is a kind of messenger. I think "don't shoot the messenger" not only applies, but I'm grateful somebody records an event like this. It's all out in the open. As I realised it's fate watching the video, I thought, pity Portillo can't influence the Minister for Transport, and organise it's removal to York Shildon, someone dry and safe to display, I bet he could find the funds. LOL They could defuel it and it would be there, safe for all to see.

[@annpeerkat2020]

Could I perhaps interest you in some shares in the Delorean 2 venture?

[@TheosTrainsWalesOfficial]

@@annpeerkat2020 I ain't got a Scoobies what you're talking about.

[@aplane9625]

Shame

[@BONESS27001]

Two of the coaches will be going to train heaven.

[@EQINOX187]

Hydrogen powered anything is utterly dumb.... The main application of Hydrogen is to use it to create Electricity to then power a motor.... but it takes twice as much electricity in the first place to generate the Hydrogen, so it is utterly stupid to use electricity to generate hydrogen to then burn the hydrogen to generate electricity.... accept at the end of the process you have less than a quarter the electricity you would have has had you simply charged batteries in the first place

[@BONESS27001]

This project didn't use green hydrogen but the project was test bed to prove out the technology. This was very successful. Green hydrogen will be produced using wind farms and other sources. Thanks for commenting.

[@cannadineboxill-harris2983]

I needed to know why don’t dig a tunnel and do an extension for the main line Train so that they can extend the unused abandoned underground stations. Why couldn’t they use the part D78 Stock train doors on the sides and also restructure the front face of the A60 and A62 stock and that includes the class 313, class 314 and class 315 remix and make them all together and also redesign them an overhead line and also make them into Five cars per units and also having three Disabled Toilets on those Five car per units A60 and A62 stock trains and also convert the A60 and A62 stock trains into a Scania N112, Volvo TD102KF, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Engines and also put the Loud 7-Speed Voith Gearboxes even Loud 8-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Gearboxes in the A60 and A62 stock, class 313, class 314, and class 315 and also modernise the A60 and A62 stock and make it into an 11 car per unit so it could have fewer doors, more tables, computers and mobile phone chargers. A Stock Trains and also having 8 Disabled Toilets on those A stock trains. why couldn’t we refurbish and modernise the waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel and make it bigger and extend it to the bank station, making it into a Triple-Track Railway Line so those 4 European countries such as Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden to convert the waterloo and city line Triple-Track Train tunnel into a High-Speed train? The Third Euro tunnel Triple-Track Train line to make it 11 times better for passengers so they could go from A to B. then put the modernised 11 car per unit A Stock and put them on a bigger modernised waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel so it could go to bank station to those 4 European countries such as Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. The modernised refurbished 11 cars per unit A stock could be a High Speed The Third Triple-Track Euro Tunnel Train So it is promising and 37 times a lot more possible to do this kind of project that is OK for London Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden? oh by the way, could they also tunnel the Triple-Track Railway Line so it will stop from Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex so that the Passengers will go to Germany, Italy, Poland and Sweden and also extend the Triple-Track Railway Line from Bank to Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex Stations so that more people from there could go to Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden Easily. Why couldn't they extend the Piccadilly line and also build brand-new underground train stations so it could go even further right up to Clapton, Wood Street and also make another brand new tunnel train station in Chingford could they extend the DLR to another new station in Chingford? All of the classes 150, 155, 154, 117, 114, 105, and 106, will be replaced by all of the Scania N112, Volvo TD102KF, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner 6LXC and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Five carriages three disabled toilets are air conditioning trains including Highams Park for extended roots which is the Piccadilly line and the DLR trains. Could you also convert all of the 1973 stock trains into an air-conditioned maximum speed 78 km/hours (48 MPH) re-refurbished and make it into a 8 cars per unit if that will be alright, and also extend all of the Piccadilly train stations to make more space for all of the extended 8 car per unit 1973 stock air condition trains and can you also build another Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive Companies and they can order Every 17 Octagon and Hexagon shape LNER diagram unique small no.13 and unique small no.11 Boilers from those Countries such as Greece, Italy, Poland, and Sweden, can they make Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive speeds by up to 117MPH so you can try and test it on the Original Mainline so it will be much more safer for the Passengers to enjoy the 117MPH speed Limit only for HS2 and Channel Tunnel mainline services, if they needed 16 Carriages Per units can they use those class 55’s, class 44’s, class 40’s and class 43HST Diesel Locomotive’s right at the Back of those 18 Carriages Per Units so they can take over at the Back to let those Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s have a rest for those interesting Journeys Please!!, oh can you make all of those Coal Boxes’s 16 Tonnes for all of the 117MPH Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s so the Companies will Understand us PASSENGER’S!! so please make sure that the Builders can do as they are Told!! And please do something about these very important Professional ideas Please Prime Minister of England, the Prime Minister of Sweden, the Prime Minister of Germany, the Prime Minister of Italy, the Prime Minister of Poland and that Includes the Mayor of London.

[@AndreiTupolev]

Oh shut up not you again

[@UKHeritageRailways]

I need to know why you keep posting this utter nonsense.

[@Interdimensional27]

I think you've been sniffing the hydrogen...

[@annpeerkat2020]

@@Interdimensional27 no.... it's nitrous

[@levelcrossing150]

Having great respect for the people of the Boness Railway and their enthusiasm for this project that they believed in, I can't say I will shed a tear for this train or any other highly funded net zero project. I was always taught that Co2 was the natural gas of life which plants and trees rely on to grow. I believe Net zero which none of us voted for is a terrible waste of public money and is crippling our lives and our country, why can't people see that?

[@BONESS27001]

The project had nothing to do with the railway at Bo'ness with the exception of it being based and converted there. This was a private venture. The Bo'ness and Kinneil railway charity benefited greatly with this over the covid period. Thanks for your comment.

[@levelcrossing150]

@@BONESS27001 Thanks for your response to my comments. I don't like criticising anyone's genuine efforts to do what they believe is the right thing and it's good to hear that at least the Bo'ness and Kinneil railway charity did benefit from the project during these difficult times that covid presented to many of our heritage railways. My sincere best wishes to a brighter future for yours and all our heritage railways.

[@annpeerkat2020]

Onya doggsy! your scientific wisdom is unsurpassed! And if you believe that net zero is crap, why the hell can't the world believe you?

[@MontyCantsin5]

@LevelCrossing: What a daft, ill-informed, comment.

[@rodkennedy9800]

👍🇺🇦👍🇺🇦

[@BONESS27001]

Thanks.

[@highvoltageswitcher6256]

Younger end of Boomers and older end of Gen X at work. Not spotted any Millennials or Zoomers at this workshop.

[@jeromesevrain6712]

Stop enjoying to be oppressed, it seems u like it or what!?

[@petenikolic5244]

Hydrogen the second biggest joke to Battery power neither viable you WILL be back to good old diesel soon quite simply Diesel is THE most important fuel in the world

[@BONESS27001]

All traction ideas need to be tested and proved out. Hydrogen propulsion might come to nothing but as engineers we need to prove out these ideas. Thanks for your comment Pete.

[@annpeerkat2020]

pure genius you fossil you!

[@jameshardy4354]

We dont build nice things anymore todays stuff is rubbish steam locomotives and the peps are far more attractive than todays rubbish

[@BONESS27001]

I disagree. Thanks for commenting James.

[@annpeerkat2020]

Steam locos... we could be on to something there! H2 powered steam?? ahem dunno what the peps are.... but speaking of building nice things anymore, has james hardy finally stopped making their famous mesothelioma? Didn't they move their industrial base over to the area of accounting magic to hide all that money from asbestos victims?

[@peebee143]

Did the experiment prove concept?

[@BONESS27001]

Yes.The experiment was complete success. Thanks for your comment.

[@peebee143]

@@BONESS27001 That's great news. I believe the storage issue is less of a problem now. Will be interesting to see how the 08 diesel to Hydrogen power generation conversion works out.