Hypermasculinity is Becoming a Real Problem

[@MikeWinger]

Great job with this. I’m so with you in being deeply concerned about hyper-masculinity (aka unbiblical views on gender).

[@TruthUnites]

thanks! you do a great job explicating the Scripture on this

[@VarynDEE33t]

Love both of your guys’ channels! I appreciate both of your careful considerations of God’s word as well as your humble approach to tackling topics such as these. God bless.

[@tammywilliams-ankcorn9533]

I love both your channels too.

[@kgebhardt1187]

Praise God for the good teachers and preachers! I appreciate you both so much, Mike and Gavin. May God bless and protect you ❤

[@ChristianityExplained]

I am in agreement wity you and @Mike winger. We need to deal with this and its opposite extreme.

[@Parks179-h]

“We are not called merely, to resist error. We are called to incarnate truth”. Well said brother! Thank you!

[@philagon]

I, for one, support truth rather than resist it.

[@philagon]

@@Parks179-hRead it again. No one is called to resist truth. Doesn't even make sense.

[@Parks179-h]

@@philagon ahhh!! Thank you for pointing out my error! Now that is funny! lol

[@bradyhayes7911]

Gavin - I'm a Catholic who watches this channel, and often comments to debate some of your points. We've gone back and forth a couple of times, and I'll likely continue to comment objections in the future. But let me take this time to tell you how much I appreciate your honesty, charity, and heart for Jesus. That's what's most important, and it's why I keep coming back to this channel despite our theological disagreements. I truly believe you love the Lord, and I'm glad so many young men watch your channel. God bless!

[@TruthUnites]

thanks, let's keep talking!

[@Zamo_Nx]

Young man who listens to you here. I think this hyperaggressive masculinity has also been seen in online debates and I think you have been a good example in showing that one can be gentle as a man, even in firm disagreement

[@TruthUnites]

thanks! so glad to hear that

[@colbyharris7229]

Good word

[@reepicheepsfriend]

I love your point about stereotypes. A lot of people in my generation will reminisce about "waiting for Dad to come home from work and help them with math homework." In my family, it was completely the opposite. My mom was the math expert, and I would wait for my dad to come home and help me with my English essays. However, in terms of Biblical marriage, they were an amazing model for me. My mom would always let my dad take the lead, but on the other hand, my dad always considered her feelings and would never let us disrespect our mom's authority. I wish more people would have the opportunity to grow up with parents like that.

[@melodysledgister2468]

Sounds like you had amazing parents!

[@5BBassist4Christ]

My mom was a math nerd too, but she was also the English nerd. My dad was into history and theology. One way my dad displayed great masculinity, however is the way he disciplined us. My dad HATED disciplining us. Most of the time when we were bad, my mom would discipline us. But we knew we messed up big time when it was dad's turn. Not only did it hurt more because he was stronger, but we could see genuine pain in his eyes having to do it. He even drew a crying face on his paddle.

[@J3D1D14H]

@@5BBassist4Christ dang, your dad was adding insult to injury with that one lol

[@abelburke]

So thankful for this video. A few months ago, at our mens group, I taught that we're harming our young boys and men when we paint a picture that masculinity is a man with a beard, that hunts, watches football, and eats excessive amounts of steak. Doing this causes boys that don't like football etc. to question why they are not as masculine as they should be, which in the extreme cases can lead to vulnerability and even questioning their gender. Instead of stereotyping what a man is, we need to ground masculinity in biblical truth. Thank you Gavin for another great video and resource. Maybe this speaks to me so much simply because I can't grow a beard and prefer baking over football.

[@TruthUnites]

thanks Abel! Haha, at least you can make up for it by consuming huge portions of steak.

[@abelburke]

Haha! @@TruthUnites

[@5BBassist4Christ]

Most of my family are huge football fans (even half of the girls). When I was a kid I enjoyed watching games with the family, learning the rules, and idolizing certain players. By my teen years, however, I was already phasing out of it. I was passionate about writing, poetry, music, theology, philosophy, language, and other such things. Honestly though, I never felt "effeminate" for pursuing poetry and language. I realized that this was another side of masculinity that is less praised but just as important. One of my favorite poems is a line from Mark Hall's song City On a Hill: "You see the poets thought the dancers were shallow, And the soldiers thought the poets were weak. And the elders saw the young ones as foolish, And the rich man never heard the poor man speak. But it was the rhythm of the dancers that gave the poets life; It was the spirit of the poets that gave the soldiers strength to fight. It is the fire of the young ones that is the wisdom of the old; It is the story of the poor man that's needing to be told."

[@johnbutler4631]

I've struggled with this frustrating narrative for most of my 50 years, a narrow definition of what a man should and shouldn't like, or that the spectrum of masculinity somehow correlates to having certain tastes, preferences, and personalities. It's quite tiresome when I know that my masculinity is not tied to any of these things. But the social pressure is there.

[@bekscha579]

I’m glad to see others picking up on the quote:: “We are not called merely to be resistant to error. We are called to incarnate truth with beauty and love.”

[@fw2101jacobinsleight]

I don't think you can find a verse to justify that is what the Churches mission is, or for individual Christians should have as our goal in living the Christian life. I doubt the prophet Ezekiel, Jeremiah, or John The Baptist thought in these terms. It's best for Christians to follow the example of the Apostle Paul...who even one time called a man a Son of the Devil and cursed him with blindness. Or when the Lord Jesus Christ drove out the greedy money lenders with a whip of cords he fashioned not to just whip around. Yes, I think that's loving and a beautiful thing too...but most or at least the average 21st Century evangelical churchmen do not understand God is the One who Sovereignly saves, and is not dependant on His on incarnating truth as to appear beautiful to other people. The wicked consider what we consider beautiful to be an abomination please remember by nature and by their own corruptions, hard heartedness and and willful blindness as a rule (I guarantee that statement would offend many even not newcomers to the channel.. The Proverbs and Psalms cannot be tolerated expositionally from a large number of pulpits because they might be perceived as being too harsh and un-loving ( I can prove it). But things aren't going well in the western modern evangelical Church to date, and people have very bad and also un-biblical definitions to begin with, and therein lay many little foxes that ruin the vineyards. Honestly, I have not watched the video yet (but will), because I am curious to what the controversy is and to see what Gavin says. I just know we are in the days of John Piper at the Shepherds Conference saying our love for God needs to be erotic (?), and there are many enemies against God and his people who rage and imagine vain things (Psalm 2). Being kind and faithful is our calling to be sure with many other duties to fulfill conduct wise (with God's glory in mind should always be foremost to us). There is a season and time to act like men as Paul says, and to answer fools according to their folly (or not). Grace to the humble, and Law to the proud when dealing in street evangelism is a good rule that usually works well in all cases, and we see that attitude modeled in Scripture everywhere (the Daniel and Belshazzar account come to mind). When I hear the term beautiful (and my vocabulary is above 12th grade level I assure), I think of a flower, or sunset or something peaceful and still. Maybe a pretty woman (the Bible uses the word comely to describe such, as well as fat to describe Eli, or tender-eyed when speaking of Leah which means she wasn't so much as enjoyable to look at, as opposed to well favored Rachael...God's Words, not mine), or the whole Creation could be called beautiful. I do not see the word used in the NT but 4 times, and it always relates to the Lord directly or indirectly in the whole Bible...often it speaks of a place (like the gate at Jerusalem), or did I miss a new translation amongst the myriads (Romans 10 would be the closest example it seems to defend the concept put forth by the video and the comments I am reacting to solely at this point...but again, that OT re-quoatation is from the perspective of the Righteous One and the saved ones who are righteous by his total and absolute obedience to the will of the Father...not those who never intend to bow the knee to King Jesus). When speaking of incarnating truth.... isn't it wise to reserve that term only for the Incarnate Word who was the Truth Incarnate alone? Yes, we may be little Christ's (the term for Christians originally as it is often taught...a slur of derison), but without Him we can do nothing, nor should we try (it always ends badly in my case), and this teaching could needlessly lead to some bad outcomes because of false teachers and faulty understandings?. We really do need God's grace and power desperately, not only in our lives, but many of us are desperate to see Him do his work everywhere at all times in glorifying Himself (whether in Judgements or in the Father's House getting filled up, and I do want the latter much more at this stage of my everlasting life). Ok, now I will watch the video. And I think that Gavin has done a great job, in debating many issues others are not, or refuse to. I speak especially of dealings with EO beliefs. His work in that area has been a blessing to me personally in working through some of those things. Also, I have copied some of Gavin's ways (in having a sweeter way of speaking to others in general, not only when talking about God with others (as much as can be gathered from videos and not knowing him personally). I am thankful to God for his work.

[@bugslayerprime7674]

I think these might support the idea behind the quote. Romans 10:15 Ephesians 4:15

[@davidvernon3119]

Non-Christian here. Wondering why this quote resonates with you? The statement did stand out to me, but honestly i chuckled and wrote it odd as simple hyperbole of the type that you usually hear from much less educated preachers than gavin

[@bekscha579]

@@davidvernon3119 Christ is truth in the flesh - truth incarnate. As a Christian, which literally means “little Christ”, it is my calling/duty/delight to put my whole, real person into speaking and living the truth of the good news that God is and that the pinnacle of history is Jesus - his person and work. The Bible is a living book. Christianity is not a dead faith. It’s Savior isn’t dead, it’s Words are not dead, and its followers should be real-life, flesh and bone, incarnate, walking testimonials to such a humbling and wonderful truth.

[@davidvernon3119]

@@bekscha579 yeah. Ok. I’m hearing that Jesusing is a big hobby of yours. What’s the point?

[@Outrider74]

In some cultural ways, King David was not unlike the Japanese Samurai, who were expected to be intellectual, musical, and poetic in addition to being war-oriented.

[@Remy4489]

King David however, was led by God; the Samurai were not, even though it's possible that the Japanese actually had some ancestors who were originally from the 10 dispersed tribes of Israel's northern kingdom; so at most Japanese culture with shintoism represents an apostate Judaism, but definitely not a "Judaism" which is accepted by God.

[@animalcart4128]

@@Remy4489 Huh?

[@ahumblemerchant241]

Emotional expression is one of those things our cultural stereotyping really gets wrong. It’s parroted by both sexes who are overreactive complementarians that emotional intelligence is somehow an inherent property of being a woman and that men need to “learn” emotions from women-when emotional intelligence is an individual property, and I’ve met many men who were extremely in touch with their emotions (and still what we might call stoic!) whereas I’ve met many women, who, while they expressed their emotions more visibly, were a lot more clueless about recognizing and handling emotions in others.

[@zygrith7306]

We miss you...❤

[@user-js2zt5lk7m]

Absolutely. Another issue is how society claims men should express emotions but not anger, which for biological reasons it's the go to emotion men feel most of the time. So you can express emotions, but only the emotions women usually express eg sadness and crying. If you express yourself in a natural way you're a toxic man

[@joyfuljaj]

I'm one of those women who does not know what to do with people's emotions. I am getting more expressive of my own as I age, but in general I don't process them well and do not relate with people through emotion. It can be viewed as strength as I appear to not fall apart during a crisis (that can be useful) but the weakness is lack of depth in relationships because I hold people at a distance. For the first 30 years or so of my life I didn't even know I was doing it.

[@AungusMacgyver]

A point of correction. The pastor called the music "effeminate" not "feminine". A song can be thoroughly orthodox lyrically but effeminate musically for men to sing. For example, being set in a register higher than the average man can reach.

[@jacobsnodgrass13]

interesting, so what do you think is ‘effeminate’ about that song?

[@TomPlantagenet]

@@jacobsnodgrass13he did not say he thought it was effeminate. He merely corrected what the original pastor was supposedly have said.

[@joliburs]

You mention the register of a song determining the characterization of a song as effeminate for men to sing. The average man is likely a baritone or bass. Are men who are natural tenors and sing in a higher register also considered effeminate?

[@jacobsnodgrass13]

@@TomPlantagenet so he was just commenting to listen to himself? No one needed that clarification

[@TomPlantagenet]

@@jacobsnodgrass13 if he was just doing it for himself, why post it. If you don’t think anyone needed clarification, why did you feel the need to tell me?

[@JoeArendse]

Hi Gavin, as a seminary student in South Africa, this was really timely and helpful!

[@mrkamerer]

18:58 this reminds me so much of my mom’s advice to me over the years to not be afraid to be a Christian but, “don’t be a weirdo” 😂

[@tammywilliams-ankcorn9533]

Some of today’s modern songs are beautifully written but sound too much like “Jesus is my boyfriend.” And for me as a woman, I feel weird singing them and wonder how men feel about them.

[@ZeeroDubs]

This is the point a lot of men who are accused of "hyper-masculinty" are making or at least indending to push against. I'll fully admit to being imperfect in my own resistance to it, but I do not wish to participate in such things. I do not consider myself to be "hyper" or "toxic" but I do have my own masculine proclivities that turn me off to a lot of the modern worship that seems particularly calibrated for women. I believe it is ok for the church to be having a conversation about how unsuccessful the modern church has been at attracting and welcoming men like myself. There is a reason churches are full of women while men are out hunting, fishing, fixing the car, etc on Sunday mornings.

[@AliciaMagee-on9os]

Do you have any examples of “Jesus is my boyfriend”-type songs? I haven’t heard any songs like that but I acknowledge that I seek out Churches and ministries that are strictly complimentarian so I likely haven’t been in the right context. I also much prefer male singers and songwriters as a general rule as a matter of personal preference.

[@laurenmcnichol5311]

“Oooh I love the way You hold me, by my side You’ll always be, You take each and every day, make it special in some way😍” iykyk haha

[@user-js2zt5lk7m]

​@@ZeeroDubsyeah these songs are everywhere and I get the tweets Gavin showed calling them effeminate. Compare it with orthodox music which treat Jesus like a leader and a king rather than a boyfriend 😂. It's a sad situation but I've come to accept the church has no place for masculinity, it won't attract young men and it won't help the young men in church who are struggling. When it tries to offer an answer, it gets pushback of being 'hyper masculine'. I go to a youth group in my church and it's 90% women. All of them single and sad that there are no single men in church.

[@jtbasener8740]

I find it interesting that the greatest writers, composers, and painters of some of the most georgous and emotional works of art through history have been men. That is partly because, culturally, women were not supposed to be artists, but I believe it also goes to show that strong, passionate men have the ability to feel sincere and intense affection and emotion. As an emotionally expressive man, I will testify that my poetry, music, and writing have never been contrary to any semblance of masculine strength, but have only served to couple my strength, intellect, and emotion all to the sake of godly loyalty. I am not perfect by any means, but I will testify that loyalty - even affectionate loyalty - is in desperate want among men today; my heart goes out to any man who is caught in the grips of lies teying to dimish or stunt masculinity. That is why I am very grateful to you, Dr. Ortlund, for addressing this topic.

[@thomasc9036]

"Culturally, women were not supposd to b artists"? Are you sure it was "cultural" issue? That twisted perspective views of the history is what got us into trouble in the first pace. Even now, 99% of well-known and celebrated artists are still men. Is that a "cultural" issue?

[@jtbasener8740]

@@thomasc9036 Perhaps. That is a larger discussion, so I offered a short (and, admitedly, perhaps sloppy) summary it in my coment. Your conclusion on the topic shouldn't have any effect on my larger point about masculinity, but I appreciate your being so thoughtful as to point that out.

[@thomasc9036]

@@jtbasener8740 What do you think is causing the hypermasculinity? We tend to blame previous Christian Europeans and descendants for world's problem like slavery, colonialism, etc. The reality is that the colonialism was the best thing to happen to the world. Not only did Christianized Europe/Whites outlaw slavery, prostitution, and many other evils in the world, they brought technologies and many medical innovations to these underdeveloped world. What is happening now? These children who were brought up with low self-esteem are rebelling. They are turning to anyone to anything who sounds remotely resemble strong masculinity. We pushed these young men too far and now they are pushing back...angrily.

[@branver1172]

@@thomasc9036why do you believe most artists are men now? That’s not in agreement with statistics I’ve seen. Maybe more men make it to the very top because their wife is the one taking care of the kids on the evening and weekends? Statistically women do most of the childcare and house are even when they work full time - say as an artist. But yeah, historically, women had very little education, had about a dozen kids and before modern conveniences, worked extremely long hours. Of course, most poor men also worked long hours. A few privileged, wealthy men were taken in by the masters to train.

[@JesusProtects]

Women have never been repressed to not be artists. Where do you get that from? Is not true.

[@no1ofconsequence936]

Something worth mentioning: the scabbards of knights would often be decorated with flower imagery. The clothing samurai wore under their armor could have a floral pattern. These powerful warriors weren't afraid of having pretty things on them. They dealt with some of the ugliest matters, so they had something beautiful at hand. We just have a certain image of what they do that clashes with what they wore, so when it's time to make a movie, the filmmakers decide not to have that distraction.

[@redeemedzoomer6053]

Without even looking I can already say, I’m sorry for all the comments

[@TruthUnites]

All I ask is that they stop spelling it "complimentarian" 😂

[@humgap]

@@TruthUnites Now that you've covered the problem of hyper-masculinity perhaps you could cover the problem of condescending attitudes next.

[@acebailey2478]

Hey Zoomer, always appreciate your content. Your garbage always gives me a good laugh my dude

[@DrJoelDuff]

Thank you very much for this much needed message.

[@AugustinianApologist]

"I'm not an expert on masculinity" Don't sell yourself short, I think you're doing pretty well.

[@CMBradley]

As much as I agree with nearly all of your points, Gavin, it has to be acknowledged that a great deal of men that intellectually or doctrinally align with Protestant evangelicalism feel (or are) alienated by the almost exclusively sentimental and emotionalistic character or "vibe" of its doxological expressions. More bluntly, a significant number men simply do not and cannot relate to its sappiness - leave alone its frequent resemblance to secular pop music. That isn't to say the worship is wrong - not at all - but I'm sure you're aware that this has been both an internal and external point of criticism of contemporary worship for a long time. In fact, this is one liturgical facet among many that lead a large number of Protestants - specifically evangelicals - to feel pulled or attracted to Christian bodies such as Orthodoxy and Catholicism.

[@JesusProtects]

The problem with Gavin is that he believes it's perfectly oj to be a catholic and orthodox idolater. He will call them his brothers and sisters and say they love the Lord and all that nonsense. Yes, in his mind, idolaters love the same Lord he loves. It's insanity, but try to point that out here to all his brainwashed fans, good luck.

[@SamuelHaak]

Completely agree. I love that many of my friends find so much grace while listening to modern worship, BUT I personally find it much too sappy and boring, and tbh I'm not really interested in hearing how I might be "hyper-masculine" just because I don't want to stand there bored listening to it

[@joyfuljaj]

I'm a woman who struggles with the sappy stuff. I am definitely feminine but I tend to lean more toward sterotypical male thinking.

[@Adam-ue2ig]

Also... you are an excellent example of what Christian love and charity looks like correcting others with gentleness (which none of us do perfectly I think).

[@ThePlagueGameing]

Gavin is THE MOST level headed teacher out there!. Everything is ALWAYS explained very well and he knows some will agree and some will disagree with him. Some of us get some things right but no one gets EVERYTHING right, except Jesus right?. ❤❤

[@brando3342]

That was not NEARLY as “effeminate” as John Piper saying our relationship with Jesus is “erotic to the core” 😬 There’s one I wouldn’t have any problem with people calling out, and being like “Wow, buddy… no, no… no… no, no, no… that ain’t right…”

[@plsdk8321]

>John Piper saying our relationship with Jesus is “erotic to the core” wtf

[@brando3342]

@@plsdk8321 Oh yeah.. that was my reaction too 😳

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

@@brando3342pssst. Guess what, JP is kinda right 😂 Sex is a shadow of the union between Christ and the church.

[@brando3342]

@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 Pssst… OOF, big fail. An analogy is not meant to be a one to one perfect image of what it is analogizing. Just because the institution of marriage includes sexual intercourse, doesn’t mean that specific part of what marriage means is meant to be applied to the analogy between Christ, and his church. That’s just wrong, and disgusting.

[@carterwoodrow4805]

​@@brando3342well God designed sex to strengthen the union between a man and woman in marriage as well as for them to find more pleasure in the other. That is a type that does not even reach the fullness of the relationship between the church and Christ, I'm saying the church and Christ marriage is even better with even more pleasure, in the most pure way.

[@taylore22]

I think this video was extremely helpful. I even found myself thinking in unhealthy ways because I was afraid of my son liking certain things and then realized it’s stemming from this conservative view of masculinity and not a bibilical one.

[@masonmcelroy8125]

There is no such thing as "hyper masculinity". A man either behaves in a proper (masculine) way or he does not. What people often refer to as "hyper masculinity" is simply immature, childish, prideful, and selfish behavior. That said, a lot of modern worship music is very shallow. That doesn't make it "effeminate", but it does make it "poor". I also think part of the problem is that a lot of "modern" worship music is written to engage your emotions, which is not correct. We SHOULD experience emotion in worship, but that emotion should come from the MESSAGE IN the songs we are singing, not the chord progression or instrumental bridge between verses. We should worship in spirit AND in truth. If you have only spirit, it is not faithful worship.

[@mariemilycraig]

In wholehearted agreement with your comments!

[@Hello.Bethany]

So I am a woman and an egalitarian so I recognize this video is not really “for me” and I want to respect that and not derail the conversation too much. At the same time, I really appreciate your approach and agreed with most of your points, plus you’ve given me some good food for thought on some topics that I’ll be chewing on for a while I think. So I wanted to say thank you for engaging in these conversations because they are so important and you tackle them with a lot of needed grace and wisdom. There is an aspect of these types of conversations about “biblical masculinity” and “biblical femininity” that I often find really frustrating. And that is that these terms seem to always be either badly defined (like the “hypermasculine” personality type you critique in this video) or completely undefined. Even in this video, you say what “biblical masculinity” is NOT but never really say what you think it is or what “biblical femininity” would be. It seems implied that it has something to do with personality traits and that there is some biblical support for men and women having broad categorical differences in these traits. I guess my question/frustration is, why? Why do any values or virtues have to be gendered in the first place? I just don’t see that in the Bible at all. I see where gendered social/family roles MIGHT be indicated (I don’t think the case for that is particularly strong but I admit there is a case to be made nonetheless), but values? Personality traits? Character virtues? That’s just not in there at all that I can see.

[@JesusProtects]

Really? You don't see in the bible examples of "men, do this" and "women, do this"? Really? What bible are you using? A gender neutral bible?

[@Hello.Bethany]

@@JesusProtects My goodness, the sneering sarcasm is really not necessary here, my friend! We are all on the same side here. Just trying to follow Jesus and love others as best we know how. In answer to your question, my preferred Bible translation is the NASB, so no, not a gender neutral Bible. I am aware of the passages you are referring to. I do understand that if one is going to interpret and apply them in a rigid literal way, then it is reasonable to determine some gender ROLES from those passages. I agree that is one reasonable interpretation, though not the only one. However, that is beside the point of the comment I made. I am not challenging gender ROLES here, but rather gendered VALUES/VIRTUES. Even the way you paraphrased these passages illustrates the difference between the two concepts: “Men DO this, women DO that.” Those are actions/roles that are given to each gender. The modern discussion of “biblical masculinity” and “biblical femininity” goes far, far beyond those basic, arguable-but-defensible, points and gets into extrabiblical territory by assigning a certain set of characteristics/personality traits/values/virtues to men and another set to women. Hope that clears up what I was trying to communicate and thanks for taking the time to read through my explanation!

[@stephenbailey9969]

Jesus is the model for perfect humanity and we are to be conformed to his image, empowered and molded by the Spirit. That which exists now in this age has been corrupted by sin, including our socially constructed concepts of masculinity and femininity.

[@Remy4489]

I agree; well said.

[@Remy4489]

Well said.

[@fw2101jacobinsleight]

It is well said and not to be attained even by the most sanctified fully this side of eternity.

[@shaunsteele6926]

"hypermasculinity" is just normal masculinity from 40 years ago

[@ZeeroDubs]

I am in agreement with pushing against the "Andrew Tate" flavor of masculinity, but I am also not a fan of the way modern church seems particularly calibrated towards women and I can see so plainly why sunday morning services have a much higher population of women, while men are out hunting, fishing, fixing the car, etc. I think it is a worthwhile conversation to have. I myself am quite turned off by the emotionalism that is emphasized in modern worship. At least in my area. I can't speak for other parts of the US. It seems to me that church, similar to public schools, have been oriented in such a way as to cater to feminine qualities. You can say these qualities are cultural, but it's not obvious to me that they are. So many people talk about masculity as something you pick up or learn, and perhaps some of it is, but there are also masculine qualities that are just innate. When the church pushes against these innate qualities juat as much as modern culture does, it contributes to the disenfranchisement of men who just want to be men. I dont care to sing songs about Jesus being my boyfriend. I just want to be taught the word of God and have discussions of how Gods word applies to my life and my responsibilities as a man to my family, friends, and community. If we want more men in the church and we want to call men out of the depression and suicidality that seems so unfortunately prevalent, emotional songs and holding hands seems much less effective than calling them to a life of responsibility and strength. Men want to be treated like and to feel like men. Not like male versions of women.

[@flintlock4302]

As someone who is extremely critical of liberalism, effiminacy, and lack of courage in the church, I completely agree with you. There's a brand of "based" Christian social media influencers who seem to have nothing better to do than kvetch all day about every little thing in the church or society they find insufficiently masculine or orthodox. It seems the point is to be as contrarian and outrageous as possible for the purpose of generating controversy. It honestly reminds me of why I stopped following a bunch of "discernment" ministries over a decade ago. The sheep need to be protected from the wolves, but when that's your whole business model, suddenly it becomes profitable to start seeing wolves everywhere. In my opinion, this is counterproductive to fighting the very real tide of apostasy we are seeing in the West.

[@alicia.george]

This is such a great video. thank you! You’re ability to speak the truth with love is truly aspirational

[@Adam-ue2ig]

This was an excellent introduction to a balanced and biblical approach on masculinity!

[@matthew_scarbrough]

Ahh, yes, nothing screams effeminate like saying, “Jesus thank you,” because as we all know, a man takes what he is owed and offers no gratitude. What I have noticed with hyper-masculine men is a non-normal fear of being effeminate. One of the most effeminate things you can do is be hypermasculine because you are afraid that if you don’t be as masculine as possible, you are being as effeminate as possible. I won't make any data claims or anything like that, but I have seen a good number of men raised in hyper-masculine environments claim that because they never felt masculine enough (e.g. because they felt like crying), they began experiencing same-sex attraction because they coveted men they perceived as more confidently masculine than themselves. If there is any remote truth about this, then hypermasculinity is a big problem.

[@TomPlantagenet]

I don’t think the issue is thanking Jesus. I think the issue the original poster had with this song was the style of music more than the message. I can’t say for sure, but that’s what I gleaned.

[@sammig.8286]

I think the hyperfocus on masculinity and femininity and creating all the stereotypes is a large factor in many people identifying as transgender. I was someone whose personality didn't match the cultural expectations of femininity, and I wanted to be a boy. Probably young boys want to be girls for similar reasons. Rarely a person feels physically uncomfortable with their body and much more often their disphoria results from cultural expectations placed on them for their gender.

[@Rubberglass]

Love you, Gavin. Stay close to Christ. The social media / KZbin world can eat you alive. Glad to support you.

[@Caleb-90]

Such a powerful and biblically sound video. As an early 30’s father of four (3 boys), it’s constantly on my mind how best to raise sons to be masculine, but in a way that’s centered on Christ.

[@perilouspete]

Well said! Can’t wait to watch the other videos you mentioned at the end of this episode. You’re a welcome voice of reason in the midst of so much vitriol. May God continue to use you for His glory.

[@aaronwolf4211]

You’re right in much of your assessment of the problems with hypermasculinity and some of the traditionally masculine aspects of what it means to be a man that have been bled out of the West entirely. But that said, I think for whatever reason, you’re missing the deeper point and truth regarding why and how such a song in its styling and its key and pitch are extremely feminized. As a musician, there is nothing about that song that conveys power, strength, or masculine love of God and man. To be totally frank, it sounds utterly wimpy, weak, and lacking any true conviction of spirit and heart and sound mind that one would hope to experience from a room full of men called to be leaders.

[@aaronwolf4211]

THIS is masculine singing and worship. The children singing here have greater masculine and manly energy and spirit and character than that room full of sadness and weakness. But when the men start singing, juxtaposed with the children in the song I just shared, you really feel as though there are strong men of conviction and the spirit of Jesus Christ making them the front line of Christ’s victory over this dark world. THAT is masculinity as it was intended. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5zJnHSJd8iDgbM

[@aaronwolf4211]

Men singing songs (Pslams, in fact) about love and mercy…in a profoundly and ontologically masculine way. It’s not just a propositional list of masculine characteristics but there is no mistaking the identity, character, and strength and power of men singing this way as fundamentally and quintessentially masculine. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/immbgIesfsh2n68&pp=gAQBiAQB8AUB

[@aaron_johnson]

Really appreciate this, Dr. Ortlund. I'm currently teaching a class that attempts to take a more wholistic approach to anthropology and we've explored this issue of hyper masculinity (and distorted femininity). Thanks for offering a careful response.

[@Christian-ut2sp]

The perennial temptation to confuse cultural preferences with Scripture

[@toonnaobi-okoye2949]

Exactly.

[@karinnadavidovich7207]

Sing Psalms in church; you never have to worry about being wrong.

[@HiHoSilvey]

That hideous strength is my favorite novel and the quote about Solomon is so superb, it raises my hair.

[@dottyk17]

I think the term hyper-masculinity fails because we find perfect masculinity in Christ. Therefore it's not possible to be *too* masculine, there are only corrupted sinful pretence of masculinity.

[@mariemilycraig]

Well said.

[@Cletus_the_Elder]

Imagine a leader of a church that forgets 2 Samuel 6. Bro-Christianity is cultural and to claim it is a true reading of Scripture is another golden calf of Christian movements in the US. Thank you for calling this out.

[@doriscimino6247]

I’m a Catholic viewer. I was born Catholic until I was 12 then Baptist for 40 years then the Lord called me back to the Catholic Church. I still hold many Baptist views. I love the Lord Jesus and the Bible. Listening to you warms my heart because you clarify with reason. God Bless you

[@JosueSierra]

Thank you Gavin. Historical context is valuable to understanding how we’re influenced and affected by contemporary beliefs and stereotypes about masculinity.

[@JoRich653]

I concur! This is in fact a prevalent issue in IFB cirlces notwithstanding inherent Spititual Abuse. I remember sitting through a sermon at our former IFB church during which John 8:36 was quoted and I was moved in my Spirit bringing me to tears not because of the sermon itself but because of the Word of God and when I spoke to the pastor after while being teary eyed, he was completely indifferent and acknowledged it superficially and just walked away. Besides, wife and I left the church due to Spiritual Abuse and now we're focussed on gathering people in our house. And God has done great things in my life and the Holy Ghost has taught me so many things that I wouldn't have learned sitting in a pew bench or a chair and just listening to a monologue every week. In this case, it is was more of grooming by the pastor through topical sermons and his family to have his members conform to their stabdards of morality and righteousness that they themsleves couldn't meet on careful examination. And dare anybody question them at the risk of character defamation and the word backslidden will be weaponized in this case leading you to being excommunicated while the rest are instructed to not even talk to us or reach out to us or make any attempts to hear our side of the story lest they be proved wrong. I honestly think, church buildings have done more damage than good and I also believe there is a gross misunderstanding of the word, Church. It has become a corrput man-centric institution lead by megalomaniacs who are seemingly beyond reproof.

[@plsdk8321]

i wouldn't call it "hypermasculinity", because that seems to imply that being rude/harassing etc. is an extension/expression of masculinity. i'd rather call it immaturity. i believe the reason young men are doing "badly" is because many social institutions including the church have become explicitly gynocentric and near matriarchal in their public image, ideas and leadership and therefore society in general has become less attractive to young men.

[@ZeeroDubs]

Agreed. The modern church has done piss poor job of reaching out to traditionally masculine men. There is a reason churches are so much more populated by women than men. And it is not helpful to just say things like "well, those men are just tok hyper-masculine" or "those are just cultural expressions of masculinity." Boys turn everything into a gun or weapon of some sort for a reason. If the church tries just as hard to subvert or quash innate masculine traits as modern culture is then we further exacerbate the plite of young men. Call them to adventure, responsibility and purpose. Show them that they dont have to act like women to be followers of Christ. They dont have to be super emotional about things to be Godly. I believe the problem, or at least one of the problems, is that a lot of men (not all) who are currently in leadership in the modern church are men who were less masculine and therefore excelled in the more feminine calibrated church, specifically because they were less masculine. Therefore, they can't relate to men with more masculine proclivities and see them as problematic traits.

[@RayvenFE]

Gavin, I am so happy to hear you push back. There has been a tide moving in our culture - but in the wrong direction! We need to return to Christ, our Archetype!

[@LadderOfDescent]

As an Orthodox I disagree with you on most things, but I agree here. Gentleness means gentleness. God bless Gavin ☦️

[@benjaminwessel5426]

What an excellent and timely video! I really think this is going to be one of the struggles that conservative Christians will be going through over the next few years. Another really excellent C.S. Lewis writing on this topic is the essay "The Necessity of Chivalry." It's probably one of the best--and most concise--essays on this topic that I've ever read.

[@Timartyn]

I'm so glad you reviewed this! It's frightening to see a comment like this, because you couldn't get more literally masculine and conservative (both theologically and politically) in terms of Shepard's Conference... There's nearly no one who would put down that particular conference or corner of Christianity for that specific reason.

[@ClauGutierrezY]

In most Southemrican cultures, if someone attacks someone else from a place of security without giving the opportunity to respond or retaliate, that person will be pretty explicitly called 'masculinity-compromising' names... if you know what I mean. Great video brother ⭐

[@jobeedrost]

Great job as always, Gavin. Thank you so much for presenting a great example of what it means to be a Christian, your attitude and approach to every topic is so admirable. Your heart for Christ and whom he loves really shows.

[@adamjensen5891]

Thank you Gavin. Your videos help to keep me grounded and sane.

[@jasonbell9975]

Thank you for this commentary. I'm a husband and father of 2 boys, and feel that your analysis here is fabulous🙌🏼

[@AdithiaKusno]

As a subdeacon in Byzantine Catholic I laud Gavin Ortlund for his urgency and honesty expressed in this video. This is urgent because toxic masculinity confused what's true masculinity. Immature men have many insecurities so they over compensate this with hyper masculinity. Imagine how children would grow up if they saw their dad abuse their mom verbally, mentally, and spiritually. No wonder when they grew up they would mistreated their girlfriends or wives. They can't give what they never had. In India men wearing earrings. In some cultures men even wear makeup and wear jewelry as sign of masculinity. A man who is caring of his children and attentive to their emotional need is not effeminate. We need more masculine men who are partner in parenting. Do you know your kids teachers names? Their friends? Do you pay attention when they've emotional difficulties? St Paul commanded us to submit to one another. Wife submit to her husband and husband submit to his wife. This is not optional this is divine command. Unless we obey God's commands then there's something wrong with us. Marriage in Catholic and Orthodox is a holy sacrament it gives us grace for our holiness. Look at Mother Cabrini or most holy Theotokos who after St Joseph reposed herself alone raised Jesus as a teen mom. She taught Him how to pray and prepared His ministry by raising Him in the faith. There's nothing more masculine than when Jesus the true man submit, learn, and listen to a woman. Mature men want mature women. Immature boys want immature girls who they can control and bully. If your pastor abused you run away. If your clergy bully you expose them to public judgement. Love one another and protect those who can't protect themselves. Hyper masculinity is for vulnerable, immature, and insecure boys. True men listen to their daughters, respect their sisters, and love their wives. Toxic masculinity is from Satan not God.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

I don't it helps Christians to use feminist terms like "toxic masculinity". They are coming from the premise the men should be softer and show a more feminine side, instead of letting men be men.

[@AdithiaKusno]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 both hyper masculinity and hyper femininity are toxic. Don't be deceived by Ortho Bros and Rad Trad Boys. If they want women to submit to them then they ought to obey God's commands through St Paul by also submit to their wives. Submit yourself to one another because you're one flesh not two. Mature man wants mature woman. Insecure boy wants insecure girl he can control, manipulate, and dominate. This is not from God this is from Satan. Christ never control, manipulate, or dominate His Church. He respects her and promises her whatever she binds He will bind and whatever she loses He will set lose. Christ submit Himself to the decision of His Church. Do to others as you expect others would do to you. Men who abuse their wives and children are not in position of authority because it is premised that they behave as Christ would be. When men behave as Christ would do then they deserves the authority and respect. So first they must be Christ-like. The ordering can't be reversed. Women and children must recognize and resist abusive men. When they insult Christ by not following His precepts on how to be good husbands and good fathers they have no authority and must be subjected to public judgement. I applaud Gavin Ortlund for speaking on this with urgency and honesty. His wife and children ought to be proud of him.

[@erenjinchuriki]

⁠@@saintejeannedarc9460it’s a subset of masculinity and it’s toxic. What else should it be called? You’re further proving the point that’s being criticized by conflating softness with social castration. The Lord values the meek, they will inherit the Earth.

[@animalcart4128]

@@saintejeannedarc9460 There are good forms of masculinity, and there are toxic forms of masculinity. Deal with it.

[@bbsmith9409]

How do you view the growing role of androgyny? Is it not where things are headed moreso than the present hyperfeminism vs. hypermasculism. Younger people don't even care so much about dating much less fornicating. No "vive la differance" = no attraction.

[@mlj6293]

Thank you. True masculinity should be beautiful. Love that!❤

[@josephfritz2299]

Thank you for talking about this Gavin. You do such a good job calling out the selfishness, ugliness, and immaturity often manifesting in hyper-masculine culture. I love how you bring up the need to keep godly love supreme and the need to live out truth in a good and beautiful way. The distinction between biblical teaching vs cultural expressions is so important to discern as well. People need to recognize that virtue is what makes someone true, good, beautiful, and noble, and that masculinity and femininity will naturally express themselves in the males and females pursuing virtue itself.

[@melodysledgister2468]

I love the pushback against legalism. Way to go, Dr. Ortlund👍

[@mariemilycraig]

Thank you, Dr Ortlund! A biblical message, as always expressed both firmly and with love - your attitude is a model I aspire to.

[@HaraldHadrada87]

Thank you for this response Dr. Ortlund sir! Glory to God.

[@pamarks]

Yes. This is great. This is truly one of the most important issues of our time.

[@TheMulletOperator_77]

I have problems with mordern Christian music, but that is not effeminate.

[@youcatastrophe6434]

I must say, I am so glad you addressed this issue in a video. Thank you, Gavin! I heard this story (about Pastor Armen’s comments about the music at the Shepherd’s Conference) a week or so ago when it was making the rounds, and it honestly broke my heart. Your response was very well articulated and just all around thoughtful (as per usual with you). Thank you for all you do! Keep up the good work!

[@HSuper_Lee]

I'll fully admit that, as a single young man, I feel the church is doing a poor job at helping me know what masculinity is and what I'm supposed to be aspiring to. I've attended men's conferences that are supposed to "speak to men" and "address the problems of current views on identity", but so many of them have just talked about how masculinity is a good thing, but how we can't fall to hypermasculinity, and the importance of being a loving husband. Okay, cool, I can see where that's helpful to other people. But I don't personally understand what I'm supposed to be doing or what to try and become. I'm not very strong, should I make working out a priority? Many of the great men of scripture were warriors, so should I focus on physical prowess? Am I somehow not living up to the Biblical view of masculinity by not at least trying to improve myself physically? What, Biblically speaking, does it mean to be a man? I've yet to receive an answer that I feel answers my questions and anxieties. So yeah, I do feel like I have to look out at culture to get an answer, yet the answers are all contradictory and seem so superficial. I'm trying to follow God in this issue and I'm just struggling.

[@gagelong9608]

I’m so glad to see your honest comment here. I struggled in the same way. I grew up with a bone disease so strength is not an option for me. How do I become a provider if most jobs aren’t an option for me? Why does the church seem to put down the only version of masculinity I can attain? What I’ve settled on is this… my masculinity need only be defined by the character of Jesus and the fruits of the spirit. All I do is make sure I’m walking out the fruits of the spirit and that’s all I need to know. Any other definition of masculinity is too worldly, does not recognize my complex character and background, and only succeeds in pigeonholing and unnaming me.

[@HSuper_Lee]

@@gagelong9608 I appreciate your response and empathy. I've heard many times, "Masculinity is when you're relying on God," which is similar to what you just said. My question then is how is that any different from femininity? What, from a Christian perspective, is unique about men? What does it mean to be a man? The answers I got then and still get 5 months later basically just boil down to either nothing or something that you can experience only in marriage. I know the latter can't be true, because Jesus wasn't married, yet I have no doubt he was masculine.

[@elijahjohnson836]

Hey Gavin. Thanks for your ministry. I recommended your videos frequently. I wanted to share a few thoughts after watching your video: 1 We’re facing these same issues at my church and even at work (I’m a career fireman). More than hyper-masculine aggression, I see a lot of confusion. 2 Like Chesterton argues in “What’s wrong with the world”, ambiguity causes more polarization than dogma. He uses a great illustration of a man staying much farther from a cliff's edge when it’s foggy. I think many men are afraid to fall off the edge into effeminacy and it’s very foggy right now. Hyper masculinity is a gratuitous caricature, but that makes it easier to see when it’s foggy and I honestly think that’s the appeal. 3 Finally, I’ve found Christian virtue ethics useful for this conversation. Thinking in terms of overcoming the passions (The passions are sometimes valorized in certain conceptions of “hyper-masculinity”) mixed with Augustine’s critique of the Stoics (Emotions are good when appropriate to reality or prudent) has helped remove a lot of the fog for me.

[@EllieRose-pe7mu]

Your knowledge of history and culture are so helpful. Thank you for helping us to think biblically by humbly speaking the truth!!

[@annb9029]

Truth my nephews need this wisdom

[@TJL-z8p]

Thank you for your thoughtfulness here, Gavin. Lord Jesus, we pray for the wild insecurities of men, that they too can one day say your grace is sufficient, and accept the strength in our weakness.

[@humgap]

Matthew 6:5-6

[@Faithhopelove1702]

Precious thoughts. Thank you pastor Gavin.

[@Burberryharry]

Gavin your office or library looks awesome.

[@justaguy328]

The thing I don't like about debates over worship music is when very traditional people criticize things like electric guitar in worship music. I am an electric guitar player, and I just don't understand why I shouldn't be allowed to worship my Lord with my instrument as well. There's no better feeling of worship for me than playing a really emotional solo thinking that my God is listening and enjoying it. That frustrates me so much.

[@Jim-Mc]

A Thomistic idea of virtue works here. In the middle there is ideal man, on either side of that is sin. I think Aragorn in the Lord of the Rings is a good example of the ideal from modern culture.

[@JW_______]

Yes, the answer is to seek virtue, not an amorphous and ill-defined cultural ideaof manliness.

[@jonathanw1106]

Ngl the "masculine" pastor objecting to this comes off as pretty insecure to me

[@vibeauxssxuaebiv3489]

It's not insecure to actually care about masculinity being preserved especially in a culture that demonizes it. You sound like an npc with the generic response that everyone goes to, devoid of logic and reason.

[@jonathanw1106]

@vibeauxssxuaebiv3489 imagine comparing a pastor being weirdly hyper masculine about worship songs to caring about masculinity being preserved in society. Like you are aware that you can go to far on the masculinity train right?

[@hopewiseman5825]

A much needed commentary! Thank you!

[@kakhakheviashvili6365]

Several days ago we lost one great man in our church. He was truly a great Christian and man of God. He prayed for HOURS every day, preached to everyone he ever met, he had great passion and love for Christ and for people around him. Every time he prayed about his unbelieving family members, he'd cry. But he was ready to hive his life without a second thought. During funeral service, i struggled holding my tears back too. I'd say i'm pretty stoic in a way i express my emotions, not because i try to, but because that's how i am. But still, if you truly love someone, i think it's impossible to spend your adult life without crying. And there's no shame in it. It's not the same as breaking down in tears when you scratch your finger, that would be immature, not even effeminate, but crying when you think of all those relatives, who go full speed in the direction of hell, when you think of all your brothers and sisters in Christ, who are no longer with us - is not only ok, but necessary. Christ left us many examples of that. Same as men of faith throughout history.

[@toddborn]

Thank you Gavin!

[@cariweber5680]

So thankful for you brother, for your heart and wisdom. Thank you!

[@SneakyEmu]

Honestly... Im not with you on this Gavin. We have a MASSIVE problem with a lack of masculinity especially in the church. The songs, the programs, the overall vibe.... We need a reaction against this. We haven't had one yet so its kind of ridiculous to be concerned about any kind of overreaction

[@goyonman9655]

He is just paranoid

[@noahwhite6062]

Did you....watch the video?

[@JoeArant]

This is a needed message

[@thecatalysm5658]

I am well aware of this issue and agree. However, I would argue that the effects of institutional Christianity exaggerate this effect on both sides of the ditch. It seems to be either hyper emotional feminine Christianity with an obfuscated conception of worship or its a hyper masculine legalism that is taught. I do think the former is more of a problem due to the passive nature of the Sermon culture church service. I understand that I seem to be in the minority here. A lot of people seem to have a difficult time seeing that dynamic. But again, the technology that we have allows for anyone that's been given the green light to lead a service with command over multiple hundreds if not thousands of people. Whether or not their wisdom or force of character truly have that capacity or not doesn't matter. The microphone and the speakers and the amplifier and the green light say so. The way you 'lead' and engage such a large group of people is to stir emotion. It's much safer and easier than stirring the mind. We do have a love affair in our culture with exultant praise that we have glorified and called worship, which is truly prostration. This is why we see more natural masculinity taught in churches like the Church of Christ (which I am not) as many of the modern tools that are effective for emotionalism due to amplification are stripped away. But no, I am as equally against patriarchal perspectives as egalitarian ones. Anyway, there are interesting dynamics at play.

[@tammywilliams-ankcorn9533]

Good points

[@reepicheepsfriend]

Does emotional = feminine though? It is a current cultural stereotype, but as this video points out, it hasn't always been that way or isn't in every culture.

[@thecatalysm5658]

@@reepicheepsfriend I think there is just a lack of balance. I don't think emotions are bad, nor zeal for God. But the consumption model that prevails lends itself to coca cola and candy, if that makes any sense. The lack of discipleship, IMHO, exists because of the unbiblical models we have embraced. It is more about the performance of the pastor and praise team (as they used to be called), and the progression and flow of the service than it probably should be. And I truly believe in a model for men and husbands that is perfectly Christlike and not hyper-masculine. And I didn't see anything excessively feminine about that service. In agreement with what Gavin said, Christianity is beautiful, powerful, and highly attractive in its ideal state. When it gets corrupted, it gets ugly fast. It's why Gavin does what he does and why I think God moved me to write my book which tbh, Gavin might have issues with.

[@mariemilycraig]

> the sermon culture church service Thank you for your comments, interesting points! I noticed the above phrase - if you have the time, could you please explain a bit more about that, and what you think a better option would be? If I understand correctly, you disapprove of the model where people in the pews are the mere consumers of whatever happens on stage, and I'm very interested in what you would see as better alternatives. You mention a book you have written - what is it titled? Please share some details 😊 Thank you!

[@thecatalysm5658]

​@@mariemilycraig Hi Mari, I would be glad to share some details of my thoughts and about the book (and only book I have ever written and likely will write). Mari, I have always been a big picture person who sees a dynamic in play and is able to see why the system just isn't working. Why isn't Christian discipleship occurring? Why is the Christian church so fractured? What is going to take for perfect unity of the church to take place? The sermon violates, IMHO, a very clear command of Christ not to call anyone else Master, Rabbi, or Father (but especially Master, right?) It creates two main problems for the faith. First, it creates a laity that is not only passive, but subject to the doctrinal positions of the leaders (without the real time ability to ask for clarification, for questions, and even challenges.) The ability to 'lord the sermon' over the congregation is what allows the spiritual abuse of millions of Christians around the world under abusive leadership. A small group model allows for everyone to truly be brethren - which is what Jesus told us we ALL were. The second problem the sermon creates is division. There is only so much essential doctrine and it is hard for a leader to keep to the essentials when they are speaking before a group for 40 minutes to an hour every week. This dynamic actually nearly forces the leaders to create interpretational models for every part of the Bible that they are teaching on - which then becomes a different interpretation than the church down the street, creating a chasm where one didn't exist before. As for the book, it is only one hundred pages, but it is not just another commentary - it's designed to be sort of a unifying, game changing paradigm. Yikes right? Well, in 2021, it marked 500 years since Luther's excommunication. If you look back at the history of the church you can see close to 500 year increments between the establishment of the Catholic Church, the splintering of the Orthodox church, and then the further splintering of Protestantism. I think many Christians are sensing either the return of Christ or a fourth turning happening. Many of us are becoming obsessed with the unification of the Christian church under a healthy theology. So I felt God moving me after a dream in October of 2021 to start writing. I thought it would just be a simple one page statement of faith - but these ideas just started pouring out and it was crazy. The book, I believe, holds to perfect orthodoxy. The book is challenging - but if you decide to grab a copy, you need to give it a reading and then really let it simmer - give it time, consider the way it addresses so many elements of faith and life in so little space. I can tell you that I listen to the likes of Gavin Ortlund, Mike Winger, Sean McDowell, and even Ithink Biblically, and I think there doctrines are pretty much spot on - time and time again. But so many of the problems and dynamics that they cite as being issues in the church ALL really fit into the paradigm established by the book. It's a life's work, and I am extremely honored that God (yes, I believe that - sigh) poured this out of me. It's called The Catalysm of the Kingdom of Heaven - and you can find it in the one spot you would expect to find books on the internet. :) God Bless, Mari!

[@gabesmith9171]

Doug Wilson: Masculinity is the the glad assumption of sacrificial responsibility

[@PrinceofArfon]

Ever met a mother? Mothers gladly take responsibility to sacrifice for those they love. A “glad assumption of sacrificial responsibility” isn’t a definition of masculinity, it’s how all Christians are supposed to act towards each other. To make it a definition of masculinity is to deny it to femininity, which would be an evil and unbiblical thing to do.

[@zibby321]

Thanks for addressing this issue! Any time a person uses the term "effeminate" to deride another Christian brother, I am deeply disappointed. National pride, cultural expectations of "masculinity", and righteous anger are common areas where Christians may spiritualize and sanctify their own biases, or even sinful attitudes. Like the accretions of Catholicism, we too can unwittingly add things to the deposit of the faith. It is right for us to draw attention to unbiblical accretions emerging in our own contexts, not just focus on the historical accretions of Roman Catholicism.

[@AlrightDave]

What if it (effeminate ) is simply a description, and not an attempt at derision? The fact is, there are honourable and masculine men who are believers and they won't always be able to connect as well to actual effeminate worship styles, as they can to more traditional hymns, or orthodox chants which are more appealing to masculine men because of the lack of effeminacy. The Protestant church is losing males more so than females, to Orthodoxy, because mainline Protestantism is becoming more effeminate.

[@The_table_242]

I SO agree with this!! I see this all the time on my channel.

[@kgebhardt1187]

Thank you! Really looking forward to the upcoming videos you mentioned. I learn so much from you and your love and reverence for Jesus!

[@melodysledgister2468]

I watched the one with Stephen DeYoung. I thought he defended Sola Scriptura very well.

[@kgebhardt1187]

I will have to watch it. Thank you for telling me about it. God bless you ❤@@melodysledgister2468

[@benmeitzen4184]

This is helpful Gavin, thank you 🙏

[@keeganmet257]

I am so grateful for your videos, sir!

[@jamiecharles8334]

Great video Gavin. your upcoming video topics sound so timely. The issue of slavery is a tough one and one I spent much time on myself. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Your ministry is a huge blessing.

[@yeetmaestro575]

Thank you for this, Gavin.

[@PsychoBible]

Fully agree, brother!

[@bridgetgolubinski]

Amazing video!!

[@lindsaysimplified]

Loved this!

[@HillbillyBlack]

Is that background real? Man stunning library.

[@user-sk7jt3pf1c]

This is great, I studied this extensively in school, and one of the bizarre realities that I spend a considerable amount of time attempting to understand is the link between hypermasculinity and homoeroticism. We seldom relate the two, obviously, nothing could seem more feminine than two men in an ‘intimidate’ context. However, prior to the night of the long knives, the brown shirts movement, a hypermasculine and overly militant movement popular amongst disillusioned young men- was dominated by homosexual leadership that sprang from a deep and bitter resentment against women and the feminist movement. Homosexuality was a necessary requirement to rise up the leadership ranks, and it was seen as the most manly orientation possible. Quite bizarre?

[@ralfbo685]

If Jesus is the biblical model for masculinity, who is the feminine model? If the answer is Jesus, I question if there is a difference between masculinity and feminity

[@JosephIrvin-yk7bf]

mary

[@1517the_year]

Mary my brother.

[@josiemcguire9567]

I am not made in the image of Mary. She's a cool lady, but I'm modelled after the Son of God!@@1517the_year

[@mariemilycraig]

I think Jesus is the perfect model of humanity, so of course both men and women can learn from him how to become more like God intended them to be. Since he was a man, men also have a more specific model in him relating to masculinity. Like the other commenters, I think that Mary his mother is a wonderful model of femininity, but we know much less about her and her life and interactions with others than we know about Jesus, so I think a better approach is to learn from all the women the Bible talks about in a positive light. So I wouldn't make any one woman mentioned in the Bible a sort of supreme example, like Jesus is, but rather do my best to learn from all. Here are some that inspire me: Martha and Mary of Bethany; the other women who followed Jesus and the Twelve and offered their support; Priscilla; Lydia. And from the Old Testament: Ruth and Abigail. I would like to be as full of faith in Jesus as the Syro-Phoenician woman, as brave as Jehosheba who saved king Joash, as dutiful in educating my child in God's way as Lois and Eunice.

[@jacobcarne8316]

For those questioning pastor Armen Thomassian’s views on masculinity, you should listen to his sermon on the Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary KZbin channel where he preached in chapel a few weeks ago on psalm 5 to myself and other men training for ministry. If you disagree with his tweets, I don’t think you’ll disagree with his preaching. He does not represent a form of “hyper-masculinity”that someone like Andrew Tate would promote. I know this wasn’t a personal attack video on pastor Thomassian, but placing his tweets alongside the following arguments makes it appear that he is lumped in with the rest of the worldly nonsense going on today. 1) Certain “red-pill movements” are promoting carnal views of masculinity devoid of biblical reasoning and are harmful for men and women. 2) the church is facing a severe challenge of effeminacy more than it is facing “hyper masculinity” whatever that might be, which many are blind to today, which is also devoid of biblical reasoning and is harmful for men and women. 3) classical reformed theology provides a wonderful framework of what it looks like for men and women to think and live biblically and leads to human flourishing. Reformed Christians should not have a big problem with any of those three things.

[@nathanfulton446]

I appreciate Gavin not attacking Armen. We used to attend the church he now pastors. He is a genuine man and I know people personally who have been brought closer to Christ through his ministry. Regardless, I don't think it helps the Kingdom to attack SGM.

[@jacobcarne8316]

@@nathanfulton446 agreed

[@catherinecomeau8150]

Very good video, thank you!

[@antoniotodaro4093]

No pastor is more masculine than Gavin 👆

[@deion312]

Fax

[@judah7528]

Amen!

[@USMC-cv5sd]

Is this youtuber here named Gavin. I'm new here.

[@samueltomjoseph4775]

Exactly my thought

[@plsdk8321]

yes this is Gavin Ortlund@@USMC-cv5sd

[@cat_puncher8539]

"Biblical masculinity is the glad assumption of sacrificial responsibility" Doug Wilson

[@techno_techie2923]

Thank you. Thank you for saying this. There is a ditch on both sides.