Hyprland Has Won

[@TheLinuxCast]

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[@MrSnivvel]

Considering the drama of Wayland's core development and standardization, as chronicled by Brodie Robertson, Hyprland gets the title of being the top dog of compositors because the main dev of it is not engaged in their ritualistic dead horse beatings and perpetual naval gazing. A clear example of "Perfect is the enemy of good."

[@Tragicomedy2137]

xD

[@TheLinuxCast]

I didn't say there weren't good reasons for it being this way. Just that the state of things is disappointing.

[@zaneearldufour]

​@@TheLinuxCastyeah, as a language nerd, it'd be nice to see some diversity :/ E.g. give me a Lua, cue, or pkl config. I want to have fun with my tinkering!

[@Problematist]

Another issue is that Wayland compositors would have to be maintained. At the same time window managers being feature complete is a luxury of X11 being so old, bloated and stale.

[@lobotomy-victim]

its a luxury of comparision of how little work is required for writing an x window manager compared to wayland compositor, you're essentially writing your own X

[@huzayfasyed5488]

how is x11 bloated? does switching to wayland somehow make it less bloated or smth

[@int32_]

@@huzayfasyed5488 The core of X11 is a bunch of prehistoric 2d drawing functions, antique font rendering routines and archaic computing concepts that nobody uses anymore. All modern X11 programs bypass most of X11 and use it only as a way to display a framebuffer on the screen and read user input. Wayland is trying to provide the functionality modern programs need without the unnecessary bloat.

[@s8err1]

@@huzayfasyed5488 wayland users are on permanent copium trying to justify the death of a perfectly working display server in favour of new toy syndrome

[@Problematist]

@@huzayfasyed5488 Yeah because you're not using X11 anymore once you switch. It even can output your screen on a printer, how is that not bloated?

[@anonymouscommentator]

varxy (the developer of hyprland) talked about this in his blog post where he came to the conclusion that its way easier for others to implement their quirky window management stuff on top of hyprland rather than build an entire compositor from the ground up. unfortunately many people missunderstood him.

[@flarebear5346]

Vaxry should really try to use nicer language. I know he hates that idea but a lot of people don't like the way he speaks

[@anonymouscommentator]

@flarebear5346 the blog post didnt have any bad words in it

[@oyudays]

@@anonymouscommentator you don't need bad words to come off as passive aggressive

[@anonymouscommentator]

@oyudays stating the bland truth isnt rude. he doesnt sugar cote it sure but i would be interested to hear where he actually comes off as rude/passive aggressive in his blog.

[@_BLANK_BLANK]

​@@anonymouscommentatorI feel like it's about how people read his stuff. Personally I don't think he does come off rude. But people that have watched videos, and heard others complain about it. Since it's written word, can easily read it in a way that comes off very differently than the impression I get. At the same time. I feel like people really take the smallest things way to seriously especially in this part of software culture. I see a lot of over dramatizing

[@LinuxRenaissance]

Thanks for the awesome video! I just made a Hyprland-related video as well and I love where this is heading. We need to treasure good programmers in our community.

[@bilalnsmuhammed]

I used to be a Hyperland user, but after it kept crashing with updates, I switched to Sway. Then I found Niri, loved it, and have been using it for a few months now. Can’t imagine going back to a regular tiling window manager.

[@b19293]

using niri too, having an amazing experience with it

[@terminalvelocity4858]

I have never heard of Niri until now, how challenging is it to configure and use coming from Sway and other tiling WM?

[@alexisdumas84]

I think you're getting likely a biased sample from UNIX porn. The people on Unix porn are more likely to use hyperland than the general population of people using tiling weightland compositors by a long shot because hyprland is more amenable to fancy animations and so on. But that doesn't give a good indication of what the rest of the people who are using tiling weightland compositors are using. I suspect in fact that an extremely large contingent of users is just happily and quietly using sway because I3 is very popular and well regarded and sway is just a clone of I3 for Wayland. I also think it's way too early to be mourning the state of tiling window managers on Wayland. When, as you say, there hasn't been much time for people to build them or port them and then branch off into various alternatives. There are also a lot of developments that could make creating Wayland composers a lot easier, like The unofficial protocols that let you plug any window manager into an existing Wayland compositor, which is what XFCE is using, or things like Mir, which provide an easier way to construct Wayland compositors than even wlroots.

[@MxylValtapaz]

I was thinking the same thing; Hyprland bills itself as an aesthetic-focused WM while Sway has directly denied requests for even rounded corners or shadows, so people on a subreddit dedicated to ricing aren’t going to pay much attention to the latter. I’m hoping the SwayFX fork gets more attention, but it’ll probably be niche for a while yet

[@TomasGonzalez-z6p]

love linux cast videos but many times overreacts

[@nikunjkhangwal]

One thing is, Vaxry doesn't tell you to fvck off if you own Nvidia. Sway is never catching up.

[@mako_bd7012]

Honestly that's the only reason I am not using sway

[@ghosthunter0950]

Ye it's not a good attitude from sway. But hopefully they change.

[@wfb.subtraktor311]

@@ghosthunter0950 Considering the state of Nvidia on Linux, I can imagine they just don't want the hassle. These people probably have real jobs and are doing this on the side. Also, why the living quack does anyone use Nvidia on Linux, you are just spending a lot more money for a bunch of features that don't even work on the platform.

[@ShayneHartford]

@@wfb.subtraktor311 Look at how many people are using Hyprland, yes clearly a lot (probably a majority) of people use Nvidia on Linux because it works.

[@stefanalecu9532]

No, Vaxry just tells you your GPU is unsupported, you're on your own and you're lucky he didn't make a conditional check to disable your session if Nvidia is detected. Much progress, what can I say

[@rjawiygvozd]

btw there is an actual blog post by hyprland dev which says if people want to make a new window manager they should just write it as a hyprland plugin, since you truly don't have to implement anything except what you want.

[@thecompanioncube4211]

If the best one is winning, that’s good thing in my opinion. Though variety should exist, but that doesn’t guarantee it will. If hyperland becomes the monopoly of sorts, time will create variety again down the line. It doesn’t worry me

[@wfb.subtraktor311]

The beauty of open source development

[@stefanalecu9532]

I'm suuuuure monopolies create diversity, that's how it always worked out /s

[@thecompanioncube4211]

@@stefanalecu9532 that is the difference between widely accepted open source vs widely accepted closed source software. If major open source software do something stupid, people will fork it, if they make it closed source, people will abandon it

[@Lestibournes]

​@@stefanalecu9532 there are three types of monopolies: 1. One option is clearly the best so everyone goes to it. 2. It's something that naturally doesn't allow for competition. 3. Socialism.

[@sempiternal_futility]

@@Lestibournes explain socialism

[@pauldunecat]

It's survivorship bias. The only people who are in UnixPorn are hyprland users, the rest of us on KDE, Cinnamon, and Gnome don't hang out there. lmao

[@TheLinuxCast]

This video wasn't about the most popular thing ever. If it were, then you'd be right. KDE and Gnome blow all WMs out of the water. This was about other WMs, which you'd know if you'd watched the video

[@pauldunecat]

@@TheLinuxCast Only could make it half way. But that's ok, not every vid is for everyone!

[@ghosthunter0950]

​​​​@@pauldunecatyou made it halfway and still couldn't figure out about what he was talking about? Lol Well I certainly agree with you that not every vid is for everyone.

[@pez1870]

​@@pauldunecatdont comment then smh

[@pauldunecat]

@pez1870 Engagement is $$$. So GTFO with that

[@jeffwinget2087]

Qtile on Wayland is really good. It would be my Wayland compositor suggestion for anyone who was looking. It has steady development, a great community, and is dead simple to configure.

[@shareclipsave]

It's good to see the young immature people outwork or out accomplish the supposed "adults". The adults don't know how to handle immaturity. In addition, they want to takeover not work together.

[@ivlis32]

The funniest thing is that tile wm's always told us that they are not DEs, but hyprland example proved that the only way is to develop a DE-like ecosystem.

[@CountDookuful]

Idk, river is pretty great. It has all of the features I liked in dwm, but none of the patching bullshit.

[@kudou9243]

yeah river is pretty cool too , using hyprland and river right now , one with gruvbox theme and the other one with catppuccin

[@TrustJesusToday]

When something better than Hyprland is developed, I will run it. In the meantime, my PCs are fine (not sad) living in Hyprland.

[@autumnjeserich2689]

Hyprland is great with its documentation and customization abilities. Still I'm surprised though that nobody has forked hyprland. I think we'll see more eventually as xorg rides off in the sunset

[@night_h4nter]

> Still I'm surprised though that nobody has forked hyprland but why?

[@UnhingedNW]

@@night_h4nter Vaxry is a tool.

[@simonslater7257]

Nah it won't get forked yet. Watch the git repo and there's soooo many pull requests and issues, it looks incredibly daunting. At the moment it's too new and if anyone forked it, they'd have to fix all the bugs and issues that Hyprland will be fixing in the future. There will be a fork one day, but probably not for a while until it's more stable and grounded.

[@tristen_grant]

I'm using Qtile until Wayland has support for colour calibration and Krita is ported over.

[@RenderingUser]

nice ive been using qtile for ages

[@Tragicomedy2137]

Is all the eyecandy merged in in wayland already? It's been some time since I last used it

[@donkey7921]

I think kde might have it?

[@tristen_grant]

@@donkey7921 Have what?

[@mskiptr]

Xorg does almost no color management either tho. Each app that wants to show colors correctly needs to handle ICC profiles on its own (and then hope nobody down the software stack will mess with the colors in some unpredictable way). On Wayland we will have it all handled explicitly, so that every single buffer is assigned a correct and unambiguous color space.

[@Xaito]

I've given up on window managers for the moment. I like the look and feel, I like the usability but the amount of tinkering necessary to make it usable and the amounts of times it glitches out with gaming made me switch to gnome. As bad gnome is in some regards it works flawlessly for games and the usability is good enough if you work with full screen most of the time anyway.

[@ghosthunter0950]

Have you tried it with hyprland relatively recently or is it just past experience?

[@mako_bd7012]

Games work flawlessly on Hyprland. But I think it's because Vaxry actually wants it to work for gaming

[@Xaito]

@@ghosthunter0950 It's been a while since I tried hyprland. Couple of months at least. I gave up after trying to recreate a Qtile like multi monitor behavior and running into issues with GE branch wine/proton on wayland where some games failed to start because they couldn't figure out the screen size or something.

[@paultapping9510]

I keep gnome installed for its keyring, login manager and gaming. I've had to use it less and less though over the year I've been on hypr.

[@Euphorya]

Honestly, If I just set my Gnome keybinds properly it does everything I care about from a window manager anyway. I only ever do side-by-side split or fullscreen and use my multiplexer to do tabs/panes whatever.

[@themohmand]

Hyprland is just very, very good. None other even come close. I have been using it for about a year, and I don't even think about switching to anything else anymore.

[@ヽノ-u4t]

I just gonna run X11 and XFCE for 10 more years :shrug:

[@andril]

anything uniting under the Linux ecosystem is a plus and Hyprland still only has the 1 dev so that's kinda scary - lets keep this wave

[@TheDeveloper-s8l]

I used Hyprland some time ago, but switched to Sway, because I had too many stability issues with it like Xwayland getting completely confused when connecting/disconnecting a monitor (resulting in not letting me click in some areas of the screen). Also it was a complete nightmare to use my DAW with that bad Xwayland implementation... I needed to go as far as to start a completely separate Xwayland in rootful mode with a Xorg Kwin just to get stuff done. On Sway everything "just works" and that's the reason I use it on everything, that doesn't have NVidia Graphics. If Hyprland would get better in that, I'd go back, but the last time I checked, literally nothing has changed.

[@HenrikForsander]

Hello. What distro are you using?

[@jcutfiend]

dwl is very much usable, sway "just works", and while river is going through what seems to be a massive overhaul, it seems to be a promising project

[@bstar777777]

I agree with the sentiment that the x11 sphere seems to be more complementary with all of the great WM options, whereas the Wayland sphere seems to have completely missed the plot.

[@SirSomnolent]

I wonder how much of sway's lack of popularity relative to hyprland is its stance on nvidia. There are significant feature gaps as well but there is a charm to its simplicity.

[@mako_bd7012]

Not too sure the market share of nvidia on linux I am assuming it's less than windows. However, it would still be a large market share. Hyprland offers a plugin for i3 style tiling, so probably sway is just irrelevant now due to their antagonistic relationship towards nvidia users and sway is just developing too slow because of how slow wl-roots and wayland-protocols develop.

[@YourComputer]

When I don't feel like making my own widgets (which is most of the time), then I just use Gnome. Otherwise, I use Hyperland. But I'm waiting for Cosmic to become stable to get the best of both worlds.

[@Unknown_V7]

I hope it is really the best of both worlds

[@GSBarlev]

Been daily driving COSMIC on Arch since Alpha 1. It's a buggy mess, but alpha problems aside it's gorgeous and-most importantly-intuitive.

[@itztlacoliuhqui]

PopOS has tiling now if you dont want to wait for Cosmic/ dont care about wayland. Its built on top of ubuntu though i think

[@anandmahamuni5442]

It's on 22.04, that's a really outdated base, plus the gnome extension takes a lot of time to port over each changing gnome version, it's better to wait out for cosmic

[@ghosthunter0950]

​@@GSBarlevyeah the cosmic design is compelling for me as well. Here's to hoping it's gonna be a good release.

[@wisnoskij]

Is Hyperland just the best tiling window manager to ever exist? A few years ago everyone seemed to consider sway just i3 but in Wayland without any caveats. And clearly Gnome and Plasma are just identical in both.

[@MrSnivvel]

Pretty much because the lead developer of Hyprland is very dedicated to his project and has grown a following of contributors and users. From that standpoint, I haven't seen that level of interest and engagement since the e16 days of the old Enlightenment window manager for X.

[@paultapping9510]

I can't speak as to whether it's the best to ever exist, but it is very very good. Config can be a pain, but the docs are okay, which is good.

[@artemsmushkov766]

It's fine, but calling it the best tiling wm ever with only 2 layouts supported is quiet a big stretch.

[@simonslater7257]

Nope. Xmonad is :P. Xmonad is stable and works. It's a set and forget kind of config. It's ugly, but works really well :). Also Xmonad has loads of tiling layouts as mentioned before. I don't know why Hyprland doesn't have many layouts, but I think there's plugins for more.

[@Skelterbane69]

Hyprland is one of the biggest reasons why I use linux, tbh

[@DavidOlofsson]

This is about compositors that can be riced, not about compositors that are usable. Aside from that not being clear, pretty good take.

[@tngaskell]

What's currently the leading non-tiling window manager for Wayland? (As in, something like twm/olwm/fvwm/fvwm95/qvwm/AfterStep/WindowMaker/blackbox/fluxbox/openbox/icewm/pekwm/jwm)

[@UnhingedNW]

LabWC is a stacking/floating manager and is essentially the openbox for wayland. Uses openbox theming as well. LabWC is to Openbox as Sway is to i3. I like it a lot. Will be in Debian 13 when that releases and BunsenLab devs have talked about making a LabWC version of BunsenLabs which is exciting.

[@Leahi84]

Who are window managers for? Would it make sense for me to try one when I come from a Windows style GUI?

[@TheLinuxCast]

It depends. Window managers are interesting to try, and many people find them more efficient and productive, but not everyone. If you're brand spanking new to Linux, I'd say no, there are better options like Gnome or KDE. But once you get your sea legs underneath you, you can always try something like i3 or hyprland.

[@angeldude101]

Is the first thing you do with any windows application to drag it to the top of the screen to maximise it? If so then you might appreciate a tiling window manager.

[@sempiternal_futility]

do you like the idea of vim? tiling WMs are very keyboard focused, so if you like a keyboard-focused interface and don't mind quite a bit of tinkering, you will probably like WMs

[@Emancipatriot]

Welcome aboard. I have been using hyprland as my primary session for at least 18 months. Highly recommended the HyDE project .

[@Emancipatriot]

Not only is hyprland visually stunning. Its functionality and features are what keep me coming back .

[@UnhingedNW]

@@Emancipatriot What functionality does it have that Sway doesn't have, apart from visual of course.

[@NelsonsbMatos]

I am using hyprland, but how can you say that's the only option when sway exists? rock solid, just like i3.

[@no_name4796]

Ok, but have you tries running sway? A lot of protocols are not implemented. Heck, you cannot even screenshot a region

[@PixelHamster]

@no_name4796 grim -g "$(slurp)" - | wl-copy. I agree that its missing a lot of protocols and that its kinda stalled on development but your example is made up imo

[@calebmarcoux4551]

@no_name4796 You can easily screenshot regions, it's just not built into Sway, and unless I'm mistaken, that's not built into i3 either. I just followed the Arch Wiki and I've had basically no issues with Sway. Been using it for 3 years.

[@andrewkelemen2854]

@no_name4796 You can screenshot a region but the screen doesnt freeze which is really annoying

[@JoshuaTsukayama-cz9hy]

i use sway, it works good. i screenshot with grim+slurp

[@adaliszk]

Hmm, I have been playing around with Niri lately before fully going for Hyprland.

[@oldbeardedtech993]

It's just the hot WM right now. i3 was the it girl for a long time. Seeing the same thing in terminals with ghostty. Something shiny and new will come along to dethrone hyprland. Although I will admit I don't usually follow these trends but am DDing both hyprland and ghostty

[@tohur]

The problem is NOT that wayland isn't ready.. Because GNOME, KDE and Hyperland have proven it is in fact "ready" it these other projects are either struggling to grasp wayland and how to implement it because they are stuck in the ways Xorg did things or they are just simply too lazy or not willing to put the work in.. I have been on wayland for well over a year and sorry I am never going back to Xorg.

[@simonslater7257]

I wouldn't say people are too 'lazy', there's just a LOT of work to make a compositor and with time these newer projects will be code gold mines for creating a new one. Wayland is very different from X11 as you have to do a lot of stuff yourself that X11 would have managed. I was using Hyprland, but have gone back to Xmonad for now. Hyprland is too new and updates sometimes change things. I'm leaning more towards stability at the moment, but do love Hyprland.

[@juipeltje]

While i like hyprland i don't know why you consider it the only option that's actually usable. Maybe hyprland has better support for things that i personally don't need, but i've also used sway and river and i can daily drive all of them (except for some xwayland gaming related issues, but hyprland has those problems as well). I don't use sway much anymore since i prefer dynamic tilers, but river has been solid for me. Only has master/stack ootb but that's the only layout i use, and it supports the protocols i care about, like adaptive sync for example. Having said that i've been daily driving qtile on xorg again now, because of those xwayland issues i mentioned earlier. I do agree though that i wish there was more choice when it comes to wayland compositors, and hopefully it will improve in the future.

[@fleurcode]

If I ever feel unsatisfied with River I might go back to Hyperland, because it's the most feature complete one. Sway is... Interesting, it's functional and one of the oldest, but working on River and Hyprland made me dislike the way Sway does things. And River is where I am at, I love River because of its tag system, even if it's incomplete, it's just an ecosystem that I love. And the community is respectful, helpful and not fucking meme filled.

[@UnhingedNW]

Im also so confused by calling the rest incomplete. How is Sway incomplete?

[@m35wg4g]

Reddit =/= real life Small segment of the internet on a niche subreddit - but ok

[@TheLinuxCast]

So sorry I don't meet your scientific exepectations.

[@Jossandoval]

​@@brotato966 What criticism? I only see whining the obvious. Sarcasm is your right, but don't go crying to mommy when you get clapped back. Bad quality criticism deserved to be mocked as much as bad quality content.

[@mattmirus]

Regardless of how you feel about the presentation, this is actually a strong point. It's no surprise that hyprland, a flashy window manager focused so heavily on ricing should show up in a forum dedicated to ricing far more than sway. hyprland is also more the new hotness. For these reasons, it's likely to be overrepresented in social media. I'm sure that correlates to increased adoption in general, but it probably makes it appear more dominant than it actually is. We see this with technologies all the time. Put another way, if I went to a museum with a focus on Renaissance art, and looked around and said "dang, apparently nobody likes modern art anymore", it would be fair to question the basis for my conclusion.

[@TheLinuxCast]

@@brotato966 My god, you can't see sarcasm when it's posted. People on the internet should really take a class or something.

[@TheLinuxCast]

@@mattmirus I said in the video that nothing was scientific. The fact that the OP felt the need to point that out and treat me like an idiot was what I took exception to. People on the internet, specifically in KZbin comments, seem to think that they know everything and that the video creator is obviously a moron. So they point out something they think is clever, when what the OP said was something I *said* in the video. But aside from all that, I talk to many Linux users. The vast majority I talk to, who use a Wayland compositor, use hyprland. Again, not scientific, but it is what led to this video. Unixporn was just another example. But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know everything either. Maybe everyone uses Sway, and nobody posts about it.

[@92redferrari]

Good summary of Waylands window manager situation. What do you use Python for?

[@darthkielbasa]

Had not considered a Wayland compositor before this video. Still kinda lost but I enjoy a good rabbit hole.

[@user-sd1bc7ye6e]

I remember the old days. When I used sway, a little /g/houl migrating from i3. How the times changed

[@torspedia]

I'm surprised that you never mentioned Cosmic, as the WM side of it will certainly be the one to take on Hyprland, especially as it matures over the next couple of years or so!

[@TheLinuxCast]

It's not released yet, still in alpha. And this wasn't about desktop environments.

[@MuhammadSalman7236]

I'm actually glad there's finally something where there aren't too many choices. Focus on one software. I've been using linux for 2 months and one of the biggest problems I've faced is that there are too many choices for literally everything, and most of them are terrible because there's no standard. Instead of improving and expanding existing software, there's a new software every single day that has it's own problems.

[@dirdredshadow3316]

I tried to use other Wayland compositors apart of Wayland... I returned to Wayland, not because i know it better but because the ones thaat i tried were really buggy... I think some projects are really good but they need time.

[@eyzake]

relatable, i kinda am stuck with sway (man i feel so comfortable in there , i cnat explain) i kinda trued to get back to normal kde but well i couldn't

[@matteobortolazzo]

It doesn't seem like a real-life problem to me. Hyprland works, it's free, open souce, configurabile. I see it as a good thing if devs and users' effort goes into 1 place instead of being diluted in multiple projects for the sake of having multiple projects

[@TheLinuxCast]

I like choice. So.sue me

[@artemsmushkov766]

However instead of effort from multiple project being concentrated in a single one it's more likely that additional effort just goes nowhere if other projects die. There is a good reason for every X window manager to exist: everything else was not good enough for someone. People will not go contribute to projects that don't do what they want just because making your own project is too complicated.

[@shareclipsave]

Have you tried River?

[@DanMackAlpha]

Sway user here for about 2 years. I think I would be using something else but sway was the first compositor I tried at the time on Alpine Linux so I just stuck with it. 90% of my time I use a browser, emacs, and terminal windows, I’m not sure what extra productivity I would get from switching to hyprland but I will look into it and see if it is a lot better. For what it’s worth, my screen lock works the way I want it under sway so not sure what you were eluding to about lock screens.

[@UnhingedNW]

Im really confused about how he thinks Sway is lacking functionality to Hyprland. It works great. Even has Distro spins on 3 big distros

[@nonetrix3066]

Total Hyprland victory

[@theycallmesloth]

your bar aroun mid of the video looks cool. where you edit emacs bind in hyprlang where can i find the dotfiles?

[@sher1x165]

are you planning to revisit bspwm?

[@tristen_grant]

What has changed since he last looked at it?

[@sher1x165]

@@tristen_grant basically nothing, but im curious about Matt's thoughts on it in 2025

[@pez1870]

​@@sher1x165last makor release was 2020 dawg

[@sigillinux]

river is interesting to me tbh but yeah very on point matt.

[@terminallyonline5296]

River, Sway, Hyprland are all great experiences personally.

[@Anthropomorphic]

What sets River apart in your experience?

[@DarthVader11912]

@@Anthropomorphic Well it's the command line tools. It has a similar config to bspwm with bspc but it has multiple tools that each do something instead of one that controls everything.

[@kudou9243]

im using hyprland and river right now i love both

[@alpha_proof]

Sway works good with the nvidia driver, and it uses 4MB of vram however, unsupported-gpu flag is needed

[@fossface]

I could never figure out how to make QT apps look right on Hyprland. That's what made xorg WM's so easy, everything worked so well.

[@simonslater7257]

I'm using Xmonad until Hyprland becomes a bit more stable as it's so 'new' that each update changes or breaks something. I'm looking for a more stable feel with less catching up to an evolving codebase. Hyprland is really great and has a bright future. The Hyprland dev vaxry said on one of his blog posts touched this topic too. He thinks Hyprland will be one of the main compositors to fork to create a new WM, so he's aware of this issue and is thinking of making it so we can create a WM from his base. I think one thing that's stopping anyone is the sheer amount of code that Vaxry is getting through. Loads of bug fixes and I hear there's lots of Nvidia issues. It all looks way too daunting to me to even consider attempting to make a WM for wayland.

[@ventgrey3035]

Meanwhile Sway changes your US-INTL keyboard with a dumber version that cannot use tildes. Wayland was born to second xorg, not replace it.

[@JessicaFEREM]

it'll probably stay a 2 horce race for desktops and managers until things slow down and people have time to fork and make their own.

[@jackkeifer]

Matt, you are soooo spot on about Wayland. And yes, it's depressing. 😶‍🌫

[@MrMedins]

niri

[@sproid]

I still experience font rendering issue with Wayland. Until that's fix I won't use it.

[@compsciwins-p4d]

I am still on i3 sadly I was going to migrate to wayland specifically hyprland. I tried sway but no it was not as good. Until xorg support ends I will still use hyprland. I will do a config for hyprland so that when xorg dies I dont have a hard time.

[@MVeans-j7w]

So does that mean I can't use Fluxbox because of Wayland ?

[@aoi_mizma]

I'd say KDE moving over to wayland and Cosmic coming around, we will hopefully see more wayland compositor/WMs. I don't see tiling WM becoming the norm (some apps just doesn't work nicely with tiling WM anyway), so somethihng like KDE or Cosmic may becomore more prominent in the near future. - Arch based distro+Hyprland user.

[@ghosthunter0950]

I dont like this being a single horse race. But on the other hand i'm quite satisfied with where hyprland is and where its going. Its done pretty much everything in a way I like, so I dont care as long as this stays the case.

[@calebmarcoux4551]

I've been using Sway for 3 years and it works great! What you are seeing on Reddit is that most of the people who care about ricing their distros are picking Hyprland, and many who just want a minimal, practical WM are picking Sway (but they won't post screenshots on Reddit, because there's nothing to screenshot). From what I've seen, Hyprland gives an experience much more similar to a tiling DE with many nice features, and lots of plugin/ricing potential. Since I mostly rice Firefox and my terminal, Sway has worked great for me. Granted, I'm on AMD, so I haven't had to deal with any Nvidia issues on Sway that I've heard murmurings about.

[@intermarer9145]

Hyprland doesn't give you anything anywhere near a desktop environment. You fire it up for the first time and you have a background image with a warning. That's it. The rest is up to you.

[@pez1870]

​@@intermarer9145 have pou tried out hyprpanel?

[@ParksandRecs-x2w]

"When I first got into window managers .... " hahaha let's gooooo

[@JarrodHenry]

I think it'll get there eventually. The reason all those forks exist before is because of disagreements, and at some point, someone is going to fork hyprland or wlroots or both and will get moving forward on new things. The Xorg platform is decades old, and is bad, and needs to go away. What we're seeing now in xorg wm's and de's is a result of those decades of work. Wayland will get there too. It's honestly probably in the long run easier than Xorg too, especially given that it's a MUCH simpler protocol. How many people really used all (and I mean _ALL_ the features) that xorg had...

[@carloscapelatto3084]

The only chance of Hyprland being forked is if Vaxry stops developing and maintaining it, which doesn't seem to be the case in the near future.

[@Z1g0l]

The only thing that holds me from jumping on Hyprland is Wayland, which causes troubles on my Nvidia card. It's infuriating to make system work properly on "I'm using Arch BTW" with Wayland, on Nvidia card PC. For now other DE on X11 are rock solid stable, even if it's not as cool as what's on the other side of the fence.

[@BruhKhokhols]

can someone explain simply why WM used instead of full DE? I mean there are drawbacks without benefits except case where you gentoo user and KDE/Gnome compilation takes 2h meanwhile hyperland/sway max 20 mins...

[@capability-snob]

You can use a DE with a different window manager than the one it includes, but after a while you might find alternatives to the other tools in your DE that better fit your workflow.

[@DarthVader11912]

Desktop environments suck, they are slow, bloated and restrict you in a lot of ways. WMs or at least the tiling ones are faster, more customizable and make your workflow better and faster because they're more keyboard based. And they do multi monitors and workspaces so much better than DEs.

[@BruhKhokhols]

@@DarthVader11912 any search term to search engine to get detailed info what are you talking about? cause as I know full DE have configurable hotkeys to move app to another virtual desktop and pin to right/left/top/down and switch/hide and etc etc etc...

[@BruhKhokhols]

@@DarthVader11912 can you provide search query to search engine so I can get more details what you talking about? cause full DE-s have configurable hotkeys to pin windows right/top/left/down and move to another virtual desktop and etc etc etc... so they are just as feature rich as WM in terms of window management as far as I understand...

[@BruhKhokhols]

@@DarthVader11912 can you provide search query to search engine so I can get more details what you talking about? cause full DE-s have configurable hotkey for window management (pinning, moving to specified desktop, size change, maximizing etc). there is no speed difference for window management between KDE and Sway/Hyperland on my potato laptop, bloatware just case for compiling-from-source users.

[@imzesok]

That kind of is the issue, unfortunately. it doesn't have competition, or rather, it doesn't have competition that doesn't also require a bunch of extra setup. Once COSMIC is fully out, I'm probably never touching hyprland again. possibly plasma too. I don't have to fuss with COSMIC, because the defaults are good enough to get to work(especially coming from other WMs and DEs). Hyprland won't even activate my second monitor and nothing seems to really fix that. It really doesn't like the dual-GPU situation on my system. tbf Sway doesn't like it either, but the difference is, as soon as I log into plasma, the second monitor will start working and will stay working if I log out and back into Sway. Hyprland? not so much. Hyprland is pretty, and I've nothing further good to say about it atm. Pretty is not enough. if it was, and I was rich(which I'm not), I'd be a Mac user. I'd rather have a direct i3 port. 🤷‍♀ I feel like COSMIC is just going to be the defacto-standard as it's really the best of both DE and WM worlds.

[@ACE7F22]

So, what's the difference? I'm technically still kinda new to Linux. Installed Arch for the first time about 7 months ago. Installed KDE, chose Wayland, and only recently learned about kwin since the Plasma 6 update. I've heard about Hyprland, and have seen how people have a preference for it, but I don't get how it makes the others so irrelevant. What am I missing that's so crucial, that I have a worse system for not using Hyprland? Also, you mention compositors and window managers as if they're the same thing. I'm genuinely asking, are they really? Is for example, kwin, literally an implementation of Wayland, or a layer on top of Wayland? I assumed Wayland was one thing, and the compositor was like an extra layer on top for fancy effects and stuff. Trying to learn, and understand this stuff better.

[@Marc42]

Hyprland has won - the hearts and minds of the Unixporn community. As an Nvidia main I'm still on i3, but migration to sway seems THAT much easier for when I jump to Wayland... Long story short, in the absence of more representative and robust stats I am not convinced. EDIT after checking: Sway has 15k stars on Github, Hyprland has 23k. It's ahead, there was little doubt of that all along, but even accounting for the age of the stars the difference still doesn't seem as skewed as Unixporn suggests.

[@purian23]

Decades, and no others are any good? Dude, Hyprland was build to where it is today in only the last 2 1/2 - 3yrs. Your take and sadness is very stretched here. Having said that, use Hyprland because it's here and ready, or use Cosmic as the up and comer that's growing steadily with a massive team behind it.

[@Nineven]

Even though it's a DE, I feel like COSMIC is what might soon start to compete with Hyprland.

[@Malix_Labs]

It's a DE with an (optionally tiling) and dynamic Wayland compositor

[@Nineven]

@@Malix_Labs It has a legit fully-fledged tilling window manager, that's my point.

[@Malix_Labs]

@@Nineven yep

[@warthunder1969]

Cosmic will definitely shake up the Wayland world... well it kinda already has. Being built from the ground up for Wayland definitely makes a difference compared to everyone else adapting their X11 intended desktop to Wayland

[@12px]

at all, I switched from cosmic back to hyprland. cosmic is not yet tweakable as I wished.

[@cz7259]

Here is one way to beat hyprland, you make Hammerspoon (a Lua automation engine on MacOS). I am having much much more fun using/scripting it vs my hyprland setup. You don’t need an ecosystem, you need Lua.

[@brennantsullivan]

I was on sway for quite a while but I must admit I’ve run only hyprland for a long time

[@benderbg]

I think you've said in the past that you dont like Hyprland because you dont wont your WM not working after an update that happens several times per day.

[@CyperN077]

Matt Hyprland has made me much more productive now that I have my keybinds in my head. But I really hate wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyland.

[@stefanalecu9532]

So... Um... Move to [insert X11 WM] then?

[@santoshk1983]

Hyprland is probably the easiest to glitz up hence your perception. The bigger problem is Wayland is complex and acts as a gatekeeper for anyone whipping out a simple WM like in the days of Xorg, and simultaneously also leads to a lot of fragmentation as not enough stuff has been standardised yet. Its just overengineered product of corp culture and you nerds and hackers will never be comfortable with it...

[@Ozzymand]

Having only 1 option isn't that bad. It means there is going to be way more attention on that project than if it was divided, and in turn that means more support and maintenance. So is that truly what we want, to have a fragmented community with half baked unmaintained software or 1 GOOD project that is feature complete?

[@stefanalecu9532]

KDE and GNOME aren't half baked.

[@Ozzymand]

@stefanalecu9532 I'm talking exclusively about tiling window managers. Not DE

[@artemsmushkov766]

Most remotely popular X window manager appeared and got some lifecycle because enough people weren't satisfied with everything else. You will not make them contribute to project they don't like just because making new one is too complicated. Maybe some of them will, but I think more likely they will try to go through it or just give up.

[@Ozzymand]

@artemsmushkov766 The user mentality is changing in Linux. As we see windows users convert over, we are going to see a shift into less of a "do it yourself" mentality, and more of a "I dont like this part, I will post a issue about it".

[@sempiternal_futility]

@@artemsmushkov766 agree tbh

[@eleah2665]

I need to use the word "cornucopia" today.

[@siyiabrb8388]

I only use sway, it maybe boring but it is rock solid and has vulkan rendering out of the box, sth that hyprland does not have.

[@drumitar]

i heard sway i3 was good but havent tried yet.

[@00Otaku-l9b]

Yhh I love i3wm wanted to go to sway but the dev not giving a shit about nvidia propietary driver users stopped me from moving

[@evlogiy]

For me, the major downside of Hyprland is that it's written in C++. I can tolerate C, and maybe even Rust or Zig (or whatever new LLVM wrapper these hipsters have come up with this week), but not the fucking C++. The code I'm reading isn't bad, but it reminds me too much of enterprise Java, and I'm predicting that the project will die out due to the accidental and unnecessary complexity that C++ brings along with it.

[@stefanalecu9532]

Unless you're going to contribute to it, the language in which it's made is absolutely irrelevant. Or are you like one of those people that only use projects made in Rust?

[@flarebear5346]

I don't mind c++ like op, but I think being able to understand an open source code base is a good thing even if you're not going to contribute

[@sempiternal_futility]

what's your favorite language?

[@artemsmushkov766]

I guess vanilla Emacs configuration didn't go well))

[@MultiBananahands]

Eventually there will be forks and other options but heard

[@zeckma]

I have tried to make a Wayland compositor from scratch. The problem is I spent ages trying to find good documentation on how to go about it, to literally no avail. Your options pretty much are: use wlroots, fork an existing compositor, or read tens to hundreds of thousands of lines of boilerplate code, figuring out what serveral in-house variables, structs, and functions do. This also comes with figuring out how in the world to implement protocols. It's one thing to basically implement a display server + a window manager all by yourself... it's another to do it without any good documentation besides code itself, and a bucket load of it. I don't think a lot of people want to do that. I don't want to do that. That's what makes making an X window manager seems appealing in my eyes, despite how it's supposedly limiting and insecure in premise.

[@Malix_Labs]

Everything on the edge of being deprecated is unappealing to me

[@Ross96D]

And still there are more wayland compositors than x servers implementations

[@fossface]

The showdown isn't over yet. Cosmic will surely be what most people use once it's officially released. In fact, I'm using it now.

[@gustavomachado3488]

Makes no sense.

[@fossface]

@@gustavomachado3488 How?

[@Rakitzch]

"once it's officially released", a software written in rust, in the age of agile software development? even if you're a proponent, you would agree with the above analogy. they are heavily CI/CD driven, endlessly iterating, and align to "specification by example"/working code as source of validation (_not_ goal-driven production).

[@anonspeyll]

I've been using Labwc and Wayfire daily for a year now, and they’re both solid and stable. While I know you're mainly into tiling WMs so you might not be interested in a stacking compositor, I still disagree with the idea that Hyprland is the only notable option. Unixporn trends aren't exactly representative, they just highlight the flashiest and people just tend to follow what is popular without much research. As for Sway, I don’t think the developers have given up, the project is simply mature and done. For me it's like saying that Openbox devs have given up, It accomplishes its goal of being "i3 for Wayland." In fact, I’d argue that in terms of stability and staying true to it's purpose, Sway blows Hyprland.

[@WokeSoros]

Will it always be this way? No. Nothing will never always be any way. Ever. That's science baby.

[@moetocafe]

I think Xorg is going to stay for much much longer, than many anticipate. If some WM or DE on Xorg works for you - just use it. Btw your camera white balance looks fine for your background and bad for your face. You look like with offset colors. You should calibrate the cam on you. This can happen, if you use an additional light source for your face, that has very different color temp, than the main lights in the room.

[@rikhardfsoss]

thank you but i like boring stuff, like stability over the last thing. so i'll keep using devuan or void and xorg plus xfce4, cwm, bspwm and awesome.

[@Linuxdirk]

labwc: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@Axenide]

2:39 That first post is mine! So cool.

[@lobotomy-victim]

why do you keep saying DE vs WM as if desktop environments didn't come with window managers