I Am Related to Him and Her? Triangulating Ancestry DNA Matches

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

WATCH NEXT: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYG1YXt8pKiIfZI How to Link AncestryDNA matches to your family tree

[@DanKastrul]

I found this video to be of special interest. This past year, I have identified a group of people on Ancestry who all match one another on a specific segment of C4. I understand Ancestry does not have a Chromosome Browser. I identified these matches as likely being on the specific section of C4 BEFORE they uploaded their DNA to or MyHeritage or Gedmatch. Every one of them, so far, who have uploaded their DNA to MyHeritage or Gedmatch do in fact triangulate on this segment. Most of the triangulations in this group are in the 10 cM to 14 cM range. Even though one cannot confirm a DNA triangulation on Ancestry, in certain unique circumstances, one can successfully identify specific matches on Ancestry which are extremely likely to triangulate on a specific chromosome segment.

[@RC-qv8dr]

This was so helpful. Thank you.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Glad it was helpful!

[@TimSeburn]

Very helpful! Learning Ancestry had stopped reporting MICs below 20cms has just saved me much time and frustration.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Excellent

[@barbproctor9750]

I like getting the reminder to remind myself a video is coming in..

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

I like Devon reminding me that I have a Premiere coming up.

[@stanbri3262]

This was sooo helpful! Clear and informative. Thank you so much!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Glad you found it so.

[@Idellphany]

Thank you for shared matches % confidences. As I go through to confirm my tree, I have found 3 distinct large groups of matches on my fathers side and have no idea how they fit in my family tree. Just waiting on my cousins to take DNA tests so I can figure all this out with more assurances.

[@rover790]

Same with me

[@tdogextremeadventures4926]

The new "By Parent 'Beta'" would make this more usable by essentially having the triangulation either the maternal or paternal line, would it not?

[@dagmarthorisdottir3613]

The other matches you share should tell you if the match is on the same branch or if it could be on a different branch. The shared matches list for A and B shows C and D, E and F. The shared matches list for C shows B and D, G and H. You know that H belongs to an other branch. That’s where the alarm clocks should ring and tell you to be aware. If you have color coded your matches and all the shared matches have the same color, it’s probably the same branch. If they have different colors, it could be a different branch.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

I didn't get into color coding strategies too much, but that is an excellent visual way to tell.

[@mariacapaldi5062]

Thanks Andy!!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

You bet!

[@tracylynn1461]

Looking forward to this one...

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Yeah... This will give us all an overview and then we can begin to do more research throughout the year.

[@tracylynn1461]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics for sure require MORE research.. lots more.. this genetic genaolgy thing quickly moves from curiosity to hobby to obsession :/ I NEED to know where all 80 thousand of these people came from. . Lol is there a Genaology Anyomous group I can join?!?

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Nope. Why would you want to stop? It's good for the soul. Granted the house might not be clean, but who needs a clean house?

[@robertbell2121]

@Andrew Lee WHOA!!! "just have inherited different segments from the same person" How would we figure that out??? That seems to be a another whole hour discussion.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

You would need to do segment triangulation to figure that out. Once you get out to only sharing 20 cM or less, it is almost always just 1 segment.

[@JosefLimas]

I have three Matches that i know they came from the both sides from the same ancestors, One is assigned parent 1 Second is assigned both sides And the third is unassigned

[@scentials]

What I find interesting is that I have shared matches with people that are less than 20 cMs some as low as 8 cMs. But all the other matches are 20cMs or more. A lot of commentators say Ancestry only show shared matches of 20 cMs and above. I find that is not the case.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

You can click on any of your matches and get a shared match list. The shared match list will only include people that you share at least 20 cM with. That is what Ancestry says their website does. If it does something else, then count yourself lucky.

[@scentials]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics thanks for the reply. I’ve realised it will show the shared matches on those that are under 20 cM but you have to make a note of that individual match. You are correct it won’t show that match on the shared match list - if that makes sense.

[@RichardB1983]

Just got my DNA results. Very difficult to know what to make of the shared matches list. For the majority of my DNA matches, Ancestry shows me no shared matches whatsoever. I presume I do have actually shared matches, but below 20 cM so they don't show up. I understand that a good deal of lower matches could be false positive - but there's no point in reducing the list to get rid of false positives if you are going to chuck out every single real positive too - so I have literally nothing to look at for match triangulation purposes. Doesn't even show my mother's kit as a shared match if she's on 19cM, which is annoying too - as I then have to switch DNA accounts to find out if this person is a match there too. Wish I could specify a lower limit. We could seriously do with better comparison tools from Ancestry, without having to upload it to other services.

[@willjohnson353]

Below 20cM not many shared matches showing is to be expected, as Ancestry will only show shared matches that link at 20cM or more. So if you match 'User C' at 19cM and they match another of your matches 'User B' at 21cM, they will not show up when you look at your shared matches with 'User B'. But if you matched 'User C' at 21cM, and they also matched 'User B' at 20cM, they will show up in a shared match list with User B, however much you match User B (even down to 9cM).

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

In your case, you must not have many matches above 20 cM compared to other people. That seems quite abnormal from what I have seen.

[@RichardB1983]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics I have a total of 235 matches over 20 cM, and a good number of those are on one branch. I'm in the UK, with mostly UK ancestry, where vastly fewer people have done DNA tests compared to, say, the USA.

[@MusicInMotion_67]

@@RichardB1983 It's to my understanding that those in Europe will find more matches on MyHeritage than they will Ancestry. Ancestry tends to be very much American centric compared to others. May want to upload your raw dna data to MyHeritage for free and see what shows up. You may have more luck there.

[@kidsmoked]

Thank you for your video, it's helping me to understand the Chromosome Browser better. But was this before the AutoCluster tool? Is the AutoCluster doing this for us now? Another question - if I have same beginnings and endings for a person called 'J L' (maybe they're being managed by someone else), how do I find them to see if they triangulate? I can't find them in a MyHeritage search. Thank you.

[@katenewell5273]

Andy, can you do a segment on what one can do with 1C matches? I am trying to figure out who was my 2g-grandmother. I know that sounds easy...except, yes, endogamy. But, still, in a perfect world how can I use my 1C matches in my genetic genealogy? Can I, at least partially, determine grandfather from grandmother line?

[@wattsupwiththat1463]

Good to know. I found someone who shared the same GGF/M and he shared his DNA with me. I was able to "prove" who the father of my GGF was. He was illegitimate in a and shared the name as his father, in a thin population, great documentation (French Canadian) etc. My 2nd cousin matched with ancestors of the father of my GGF. Sad part is she (2nd GGM) was 14 and a few months when GGF was born and he (2nd GGF) was married.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

With Ancestry, having the large database makes finding instances like you described possible.

[@rosewellLive]

what is the difference between X Chromosome Triangulation and autosomal triangulation?

[@MikeNewland]

My daughter has a match in her match list who does not appear in mine. OK mother's side? But when she does a shared matches with him three people appear who are in my matches. But if he inherited DNA from my side as well as that of her mother that would explain the three links surely BUT then he'd appear as a match to me? I can't figure it.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Its possible that the three matches share DNA with your daughter and you through different parents. They may be 3rd cousins or more distant in which case, they don't share any DNA with you. If you have follow-up questions, started a new comment thread rather than follow up to this one so I will see it.

[@staceycoates1418]

You mentioned that close family should not be used in triangulation. I have used family for verification reasons. I saw a match (A) and one of the shared matches (B) was my known 3rd cousin. But my grandmother and B's mother were not shared matches so that told me we were not related in the same way I am related to B, and that it was likely through B's pateernal line, and because of other matches I knew I was related to A through one of my grandfathers. So by using close family I was able to tell what side of B's family A was likely related through and that my grandparents were not related!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Maybe I need to clarify, close matches (2nd cousin and closer) shouldn't be used for segment triangulation. For match triangulation or shared matching, what you described is perfectly fine.

[@staceycoates1418]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics But this is with Ancestry where you cannot use segments.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Correct, in which case you are using close matches appropriately.

[@AdvocateSpirit]

How do we determine if match B and C both match me (A) on the same segment of DNA? Can AncestryDNA do that?

[@AdvocateSpirit]

and then.....I unpaused the video and you literally began answering me as though we were speaking 1-2-1, thank you!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Not a problem. I try and anticipate questions, but I can't think of all of them.

[@melchabs8616]

I am searching for my biological grandfather. Can you recommend someone who can help with this. I can’t figure it out.

[@StokesCheri]

Speaking of DNA matches with Devon... Recently I was researching a match and came across the name TOWNLEY and thought of Devon. That guy was the ancestor of a GEISZLER and wouldn't you know it, I'm related to Devon's great aunt(?) Nancy. Lol P.S. We only share 17cMs so we only have 1 shared match, but it's obviously on the BARNETT line - a total mystery. 😭

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Really?!?! That's way to cool. Nancy Wasson is my 1st cousin 1x removed. She was my father's cousin.

[@chopsieflores4844]

Can it be a shorter segment of say 6.3 cMs or 5.4 cMs?

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Check out this video. It might answer your question: Are Small DNA cM Segments Valid? kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3e2f4uijquhjKs

[@veronicasamms3961]

Great video. Please can you help? I have tried what you said and had two groups going nicely. As I continued I found a match thats related to me on both sides so now I'm confused. For eg. The cross member does not have Sylvester as a match and none of her siblings but the new person has them both and to make it worse they all come up as my 1st cousins.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

It's entirely possible that either 1. Your Parents are related or 2. Your match shared genetic relatives from both of your lines. If only Ancestry helped us see how our matches match each other, we could get a better understanding of confusing situations like yours. Do you have your DNA in other database with these matches so you can see how they relate to each other?

[@ambydex9253]

Crap. I just sent in an ancestrydna kit. I’ve been using 23andme since 2013, which does show you segment data. I remember now that ancestry doesn’t show it but I had forgotten. I think it might be the more popular service because of all the marketing so I wanted to find some breakthrough matches by adding myself to their database as well. It’s going to be very irritating to suddenly have the training wheels on with segment triangulation.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

I recommend being in more than one Database if you're trying to build a genetic famiy tree. So, no worries. You're still going to have some success.

[@tanelise4673]

EXCELLENT!!

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Thank you.

[@sandramoore8903]

I would like to know why Ancestry, FTDNA, and MyHeritage always leaves off the ancestor in a tree that you are related through. Is it because that ancestor cited is absolutely wrong in the records and they know it; or is it because they don't want you to match your ancestors so easily? I understand that people know other people by different names. What one person might use as a nickname for their grandparent, might be totally different than what another grandchild would use AND what is on legal documents might be different than how they are known to their kids, cousins, etc.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Are you referring to ThruLines, Theories of Family Relativity, and/or family tree comparison tools? If so, then my best guess to what you're describing is that the company compares your tree to the trees of other persons. If it can find a path from you and your DNA match, it will do so. If it can't there might be something that is not the same (name, dates, places, relationships) between your trees and the company can not make a path of same information. OR, it's possible that the person left off has their tree marked as private (or you do) and therefore the recommendations are possible but hidden due to privacy requests by you or your DNA match. Without seeing what you're referencing, those are the two most likely scenarios assuming you and the DNA match / family line are genetically accurate.

[@sandramoore8903]

@@FamilyHistoryFanatics Thanks, It is propbably # 2, but I don't know why the match would care about someone that is over 100 years back or more. I can find it other ways, but I don't always know if they have been married more than once or not.

[@johngavin1175]

Good video. Gotta give this a try. I myself have a crap ton of matches that I need to figure out. It would help correct my tree. Within the last 5 months I actually had a paternal 1st cousin appear on my match list,but on our mutual shared list,only two matches representing our grandfather's side show up,while our grandmother's side is almost verbatim. I dont know enough to figure out why that is. I have quite a bit of matches from my grandfather's side,but only 2 of them show up on hers.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Always have to remember that everyone has 2 parents. while you may be related on your grandfather's side through his father, it is still possible that you are related on your grandmother's side through his mother.

[@shannondenbow]

Or could it be that they share the same chr and segment from the grandparent rather than the father and mother?

[@joefromravenna]

I have only 4000 matches total on Ancestry (including the very distant 6 cM matches).

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

What is your ethnic background? Off the top of my head I would guess Asian with that low of a match count.

[@bennettdarren]

Your slide at 4:55 (kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJetkJ5pacp8e6c) is potentially confusing. I believe you are trying to say that A is related to C via A's father and B is related to C via A's mother... but the blue line could also be interpreted as B is related to C via B's mother/maternal line, which doesn't fit what you are saying but the graphic could mislead someone. If we look at it via the second option then it is obviously possible that A, B, C could have the same common ancestor depending on what we find when we research the tree.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Actually what I am saying is that A is related to C through C's father and B is related to C through C's mother. Therefore, unless C's mother and father are related, they can't triangulate because the segment that A and C share is on C's paternal chromosome, and the segment that B and C share is on C's maternal chromosome (likely not in the same location although possible by chance). It is confusing.

[@sgjoni]

I've been so disappointed with ancestry and their limited features. Sure it's great for the family tree but on the dna front they are really limited... and personally I prefer Wikitree for family tree building and familysearch for hints and sources on the conventional side of things.

[@joonzville]

I just started copying my tree to WikiTree. I really like their commitment to accuracy, connecting everyone and the warm, helpful attitude. Their big drawback, imo, is the more difficult interface. It’s been a slow slog for me to get up to speed. A lot of people have, apparently, tried it and quit, leaving non-sourced, incorrect profiles. I do admire the community’s determination to salvage those profiles, though. The huge advantage at Ancestry is just the numbers. Some of it is shlock, but there’s also really good research and a huge database of sources and a fairly easy interface. Even with it’s obvious weaknesses wrt DNA, I’ve made some serious breakthroughs using ThruLines...very carefully. None of those connections already existed at WikiTree. So I continue to do research using Ancestry’s tools, I’m starting to use GEDmatch for more complex DNA analysis and will use WikiTree to preserve my work in a public forum for all to see, plus doing further research.

[@johngavin1175]

@@joonzville Ancestry Thru Lines are useful most of the time,but I also seen it get things dead wrong. Like you said,carefully.

[@joonzville]

@@johngavin1175 Ha! Yeah, sometimes Ancestry’s errors are laughable and there’s no way to correct them! I have one 3rd-ish cousin who Ancestry insists I’m related to through 2 different sets of common ancestors. One is correct, the other is through the unrelated spouse of this cousin’s parent, who is a 2nd-ish cousin. There is no tree that I’ve found on Ancestry that shows this relationship. They’re algorithm just made it up. :-0 That said, I *have* broken through several brick walls using ThruLines. I just wish they’d give us the data wrt exactly which segments we share with our matches. We could do so much more with that data.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

Every place has its pros and cons. What is important is that you figure out what you like to spend your time doing.

[@brucebanner5354]

Great video! I’m trying to triangulate my matches to find this 2% ethnic group I got in my results. I have a 4th cousin (43 cM) and we share about 30 other 4th cousin matches. 26/30 of these matches also have the same % of this ethnic group. Would be it safe to assume this is where this heritage is coming from? Sadly none of their trees match mine in thru lines and I have all of my 4x great grandparents :(

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

The only way it would be safe to assume that is if you have eliminated all other possibilities. At 2%, there are a mulititude of inheritance patterns that your matches could be 2% also, simply by chance.

[@thomasjohnston6956]

I thought this showed how to triangulate with Ancestry

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

It does.

[@nickyedwards520]

Please help me I'm desperate to find out who my biological father is also my grandmother never found out who her parents where she was left in a work house please help

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

We teach you how to start the process. Watch this series about how to do research when you're adopted (or don't know the identity of an ancestor) kzbin.info/aero/PLcVx-GSCjcdk1GsAs9NfLWKvACcjE3Afg Then watch these videos about genetic genealogy kzbin.info/aero/PLcVx-GSCjcdmsw25mbI-wJin_9_9QQUzI At some point, you'll need to learn how to build a family tree using genealogical records and Devon has numerous videos on how to do that.

[@STICKITINYOUREAR]

23 &me does show you which chromosome your match is on. They visually let you see how much of that chromosome the other person shares with you. They even show you visually, where on a specific chromosome you share your dna.

[@FamilyHistoryFanatics]

That's a chromosome browser and I love them. Ancestry doesn't have these. Which is why tI call this Match Triangulation and not DNA triangulation or genetic triangulation. 23andMe and MyHeritage have chromosome browsers. Thanks for pointing that out.