I Fixed The Vertical Kicks Terminology Of Tricking

[@johzuke1]

If you have any questions that arose while watching the video and they are still unanswered after seeing the whole thing, feel free to ask them here! A couple things I have noticed from the comments that I wanna clarify: Swipe can and should be applied on vertical tricks. It's just like any other shape. People already do it without noticing when they say cheat 9 snapu which means cheat 9 swipe twist when written open. It is easy to distinct the vertical cheat swipe and its variations from the horizontal/inverted ones. The 540 kick = cheat swipe Sideswipe = raiz swipe (and the term sideswipe does not go anywhere) Jacknife = cheat swipe knife (just call it jacknife whenever you can) Swipe knife = raiz swipe knife (makes it more clear anyways) 540 gyro = cheat swipe gyro Snapu swipe = raiz snapu (but you can still use the term snapu) Cheat 900 hyper = cheat 540 swipe (gets me to the second point) Swipe > hyper as a term because it tells stuff about the body position. It is not tied to a landing stance like hyper is. What if you wanna land the cheat 900 hyper into semi to frontswing. Cheat 900 semi works but is a lot less clear than if the swipe is in the name. Even better example, what if you add a gyro to for example a 540 kick (old term) and try to use a base term "tornado hyper". Old term 540 gyro works but tornado hyper gyro does not. Cheat swipe gyro works really well though and you know it is not inverted because if it would, it would be a raiz snapu / snapuswipe. Also, all other variations are used on top of the base term to name stuff. Why not swipe? And why would you need an additional term like Katana that nobody uses when it comes to mainstream terms and when the widely well known swipe just works?

[@fpx_akira3865]

WAKE UP BABE, NEW TRICKING PATCH NOTES 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[@drased]

a written change log would be a good idea tho !!

[@WatTheFinn]

This really does make great sense! Brilliant! I think the traditional naming system started with the pop kicks and the rotation of your body from take-off to the point where you were ready to go on to the next trick determined the degrees. So, like pop 720 your chest is facing opposite of target. Jump, rotate 540 degrees with the kick and after landing you automatically return facing away from the target. Transitions such as punch were not that much of a thing back then. There was almost always a step in between the tricks and it was important to move in a straigth sideways line. Coming back to pop 720, cheat 720 was thought to be literally the same, but the first half rotation was cheated away. Tornado kick is cheat 360. The devious 540 kick got it’s name as it is in the middle of these cheat kicks with a different kicking leg. I am not 100 % sure of this, but this is how I remember being told and how I learned these. But as tricking has evolved quite a bit and the emphasis is on different things, it is about time the naming of the kicks make more sense 👏🏽

[@johzuke1]

@@WatTheFinn Yes it is important to know the history of the naming. Thank you for writing the comment for those who did not know these yet. The terminology is evolving all the time. I think my changes would make a lot sense and the only thing that would be a bit incorrect would be the frontside pop category since they would always spin slightly more than their other counterparts from different setups. It's a sacrifice for greter good kinda situation. Make everything else correct and the one thing that the whole thing was based on slightly less correct for more clarity and unity. I am 100% willing to do that.

[@AndreaRodolfoNadia]

I confirm what @WatTheFinn said. The old terminology actually did make some sense at the time it was invented for the way kicks were supposed to be executed and the very limited repertoire tricking had. The reason for the degrees being so exaggerated is they didn't count actual in air rotation, but rotation from the starting position to the finishing position, including the remaining part you'd do once you landed in order to return to the supposed stance you were supposed to take in traditional martial arts. A roundhouse or an inside crescent kick would rotate you all the way to a backside stance and a hook kick or an outside crescent to a frontside stance. Running punch and pop kicks would all jump from the frontside stance; cheat and backside kicks were both supposed to cheat 180 degrees of rotation, no more and no less. So a pop 720 would be 720 degrees of rotation from the takeoff, with the torso facing frontside, to the final stance, with the torso again facing frontside after the outside crescent was finished. A pop 540 (yes, there were pop 540s) would be 540 degrees from the same takeoff to the landing in hyper, with the torso facing backside. But when the cheat 540 came to be, it became so iconic that people started referring to it as THE 540 kick. Meanwhile, as @alphaignus pointed out, people just started cheating more and more until it became the norm, to the point that now you reeeally have to squint your eyes in order to see more than 540 degrees of rotation in a 900. And that wasn't a bad thing per se, as it allowed for a lot more tricks to be created before being eventually perfected. But it did make the terminology quite obsolete. Same went for landing stances terminology: back then, "hypering" a trick just meant landing it on the other leg by over-rotation, as opposed to switching. Thus you had aerial switch and hyper aerial, which was okay back then. But it is confusing now, and renaming the latter aerial mega effectively solves that confusion.

[@nikoflow_fm9541]

Tricking version 3.1.04 just dropped

[@IshPayne]

Very good and well thought out video! Your kicks are looking ON POINT! TKT overcame this years ago and takes into account many of the issues you explained. The problem is it can be difficult to understand if not studied in-depth and the naming can appear “clunky”. Nonetheless, tkt is very systematic and mathematical. There are intricate details, complexities, and nuance that make it tough to have a consistent and scientific classification system in vert kicking, but tkt does a great job with consistency and progression if you throughly study and understand it. It classifies kicks from position of origin (frontside or backside), take off (pop, cheat, swing), in-air rotation (180, 360, etc) and landing (hook, round, hyper hook, hyper round, etc). The the takeoff, rotation, and landing all have an underlying numerical (rotational) value that can be tough to decode at face value if you don’t understand the approach, but, nonetheless, the names are always systematically and mathematically consistent. The issue of why it never caught on: 1) there was already a strongly rooted method and terminology within the tricking community 2) there is a bit of a learning curve to understanding the methodology and its purpose, especially if one has already been rooted in the mainstream methods and terminologies. Peeps just wanna trick! Not go to math class, lol. People misinterpret tkt as a naming system. It is actually a classification system and takes time and energy to thoroughly understand. The reason it’s hard to name and classify all these things is because vert kicking and tricking in general is actually a sophisticated and complex art form with many pathways, possibilities, and nuances. It’s so much more than just swings, dubs, and trips. It’s scientifically and artistically beautiful.

[@NickyKick]

Thank you for speaking the truth 🦵

[@johzuke1]

@@NickyKick my pleasure 🙏

[@NoahPetek]

Love this! The current naming system is so stupid even though I do think that it sounds cooler lol

[@johzuke1]

@@NoahPetek makes everything seem so much cooler than it is. But we are just so used to it. I have used it for 12 years so it is very ingrained in me. But at the same time I always hate it so much 😂

[@SV5280]

Me estoy aprendiendo los nombres gracias a ti, muchas gracias 😢 aparte aprendo que cada patada es diferente

[@heroinholiday2955]

Love this video i might start adapting this new language, tricking will have to evolve eventually

[@SuppenNinja]

I think i will use this now!

[@kingoreo7050]

Katana exists and seems like it could fit as the univerted swipe so we can still make the distinction. I do like the idea of just not having numbers here like for tornado because its just not twising enough yet to really matter. edit : didn't finish video b4 commenting :|

[@johzuke1]

@@kingoreo7050 I personally don't see a point in distincting the uninverted and inverted swipes. It is not done with any other variation either so why in this case. It is very clear when it will be inverted and when not just by naming stuff right. When doing a cheat step and taking off for an invert just use the term raiz in the begining and cheat when we talk about non inverted kicks Sideswipe = raiz swipe 540 kick = cheat swipe Swipe knife = raiz swipe knife Jacknife = cheat swipe knife (never has to be called that because how well people know jacknife) 540 gyro = cheat swipe gyro Snapuswipe = raiz swipe twist = raiz snapu

[@dezboyletricking420]

FINALLY!!!!!

[@themerry_man]

Hey Johannes, how do you balance lifting and tricking day to day without overtraining? Do you do regular weightlifting and then a tricking session in the same day? Or one day lifting and the next tricking? Thank you!

[@johzuke1]

@@themerry_man more tricks less weights sometimes and wise versa. It is a balance. I do not have a routine but if I wanna improve more at weights I train it at least 80% of my sessions and sometimes it's just put to maintenance mode and tricks are the main thing. A lot of sleep and enough food is crucial in this equasion 😄

[@dan16587]

agree with this !

[@kwintun]

What about calling Cheat 720 > Cheat Hyperhook?

[@johzuke1]

@@kwintun that's too big of a change in mentality and how to name everything else in a smilar way. What is c9, c10 etc? I can't come up with any good names for these with this style without the degrees. Also c7 does not always have a hook. It can have an outside crescent kick too.

[@alphaignus]

540 rotation is wrong because it's an extension of the 'turning / jumping 360' kick aka tornado kick, which traditionally lands and takes off with the user facing away from the target. Hypering this move ends up with the user facing the target once the movement has been completed, so it's taken that 180° has been added. BUT THEN people got better at cheat setups and cheated more rotation out of the takeoff, reducing the overall midair rotation of the 540 kick. It's kinda like how corks used to be commonly thought of as 540 degrees of spin with no flatspin or flip rotation taken into consideration. As we moved towards the idealised form of these tricks, the specs changed but our language did not.

[@johzuke1]

Tornado whether done from cheat or pop is just 180 spinning though. Almost zero spin before the round kick happens. It doesn't really matter what way you start setting up to it, it has never 360 degrees rotation counted from leg position before jumping and at landing. 540 kick is pretty much always gonna be 360 as shown in the video. You would have to over-rotate it to semi landing to make it a 540 spin.

[@mjkmetso2935]

@@johzuke1@alphaignus The original basis for rotation in tricking kicks is 'pop' or 'frontside'. Pop/FS 360 (round) -> Cheat (start FS, spin-step to BS cheating 180 rotation) 360 (round) for tornado. Although I don't know if it was ever called a 360 kick or whether it was called 540 kick (adding in rotation to stance) because of the existence of Pop360 (FS 180). The theme for OG kicks seems to be POP 720 -> 540 in-air rotation, outside kick (hook/crescent) followed by 180 'return to stance'. Cheat 720 -> 180 rotation on ground during cheat step (180 rotation on your jumping leg from FS to BS), 360 in-air rotation, outside kick (hook/crescent) followed by 180 'return to stance'. Backside 720 -> Start FS, step into backside (180 rotation), 360 in-air rotation, outside kick (hook/crescent) followed by 180 'return to stance'. [ Regarding the backside naming, there is an old bilang video of Emig going through that exact logic for naming with the step into backside ] Following that logic down the rotations, tornado would be cheat 540, pop tornado would be pop 540 and the OG pop 360 is makes sense as being 180 in-air to outside kick + Turbo to land in stance instead of returning to stance on ground. I do vibe with Johannes' take on this though and think it is definitely an improvement on previous attempts to fix the terminology. JKT = Johannes Kicking Terminology :D

[@malikshepherd]

Haha i didnt even try to approach that one yet with tricking terminology.

[@MarcinGornyTricking]

I see couple of issues with this. Pop swipe is used to describe that move lots of people do after twists or scoots etc. the off axis flaskick (pop earial ish). Swipe really implies the head goes below the hips. If 540 would be called cheat swipe then following the rules You presented here, jacknife would be called cheat swipe knife and well we already have that and that's sideswipe with a hook at the end. Frontside kicks can be done from the position where turbo ends and then the kick has 180 degrees in-air more than its backside counterpart so using degrees doesn't work that well in this case. Using mainstream terms: cheat 720 turbo punch pop900. This 9 kick has clearly 180 more degrees. Apart from pop/frontside the rotation works well tho

[@johzuke1]

@@MarcinGornyTricking pop swipe is basically a reverse pop aerial. If not it can just be called popflash with no issue. Yeah cheat swipe knife or (just use the nickname jacknife) is something that is all right because it is very easy to make a destinction. Cheat swipe knife is jacknife while raiz swipe knife is "the swipeknife". Could be just always called raiz swipe knife. Like snapuswipe could just be changed to raiz snapu for more clarity. The old term cheat 9 knife would be cheat 540 swipe knife or just cheat 540 knife without any issues too. Frontside is truly the only thing here that will have degrees that are almost all the time too high but it is just a sacrifice I was willing to make because it makes one thing not make sense instead of everything not making sense. Can't win in everything.

[@madhavraghu]

the swipe part is most confusing because when you say swipe, it seems like it should be inverted

[@johzuke1]

In my opinion it's just a body position (shape) that can be added for inverted tricks, horizontal tricks and vertical tricks. Just like most other shapes can be done. Think about it like that and there is nothing confusing.

[@bensk85]

Taking a page out of skateboarding terms. I can get on this

[@augustuslodholz5453]

why call it swipe? isnt it actually just "cheat 360 hyper"?

[@johzuke1]

@@augustuslodholz5453 every other variation is also named according to the shape in my system. Cheat shuriken, cheat feilong, cheat d-leg (parafuso), cheat swipe. Makes everything unified and clear. Hyper is just a landing stance to me that does not tell about what happens in the air. So less clear and worse term to use. What of you do a cheat swipe and land in semi? Can't say cheat 360 hyper semi at that point 😂 But you can say cheat swipe semi easily. See what I mean?

[@johzuke1]

@@augustuslodholz5453 also the fact is that tornado is not even close to 360. Like 180 most of the time. And 360 is already used on the pop 360 which is a terrible name for frontside crescent due to it not aligning with the other terminology of frontside pop kicks at all.

[@augustuslodholz5453]

@@johzuke1 you make good points

[@Antonio1350]

They made these names to feel "cool"

[@joeg579]

"im gonna do a bs900!" * does 1.5 spins in the air * that 900 truly was bs! not cool at all!

[@GinoTrickz]

it is cool