I gave Malazan a second chance | Gardens of the Moon review

[@readbykyle3082]

You say Malazan wrong. Unsubscribing

[@MattonBooks]

What Kyle said.

[@AverageJoesLibrary]

The correct way sounds so much dumber even though it’s correct. Also once you hear a name first it’s hard to rewire your brain. I’ll read a book and in my head say it one way then hear the audio book and dono who it is.

[@readbykyle3082]

@@AverageJoesLibrary oh I agree. This is just a running joke with Bookborn. I don't care how people pronounce things 😂

[@AverageJoesLibrary]

@@readbykyle3082 I didn’t even notice the unsubscribing ha. I figured somebody would point that out tho.

[@raswartz]

The author says it wrong.

[@stevelundin5705]

SE here. Thank you for giving Malazan a second chance. I hope you continue to enjoy it. I learned my craft as a short-story writer and when I turned to writing novels I simply extended my approach to longer lengths, which maybe was a no-no. This is why the narrative feels freighted, as I load a lot on each sentence (barring the simple transitional or action-oriented stuff). But I have faith in the reader (and you who doubt yourselves, don't! You can carry all that's needed for the story). In many ways, Gardens is a primer. It's with Deadhouse Gates that I roll up my sleeves and wade in. I hope your reading of it will be rewarding. Cheers!

[@Bookborn]

Thanks for stoping by, it's an honor 🙏

[@moresoysauce5489]

Wow SE commented, what the hey!? Just bought books 1-3, they will arrive tomorrow, super pumped!

[@jforozco12]

Love your prose and the ideas you put into your characters. Beautiful writing in such an underrated genre

[@corydegree8531]

Can’t wait to get into this series after I finish up with the Prince of Nothing series. I’ll use the same approach I used with those books and avoid trying to understand every single thing going on and just sit back and enjoy the ride.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Hooray! I am very happy to hear your thoughts on Gardens of the Moon! Since I made an entire video about Lorn in relation to morality in Malazan, I don't think your take on her is hot at all. Your reactions here give me hope that you'll get a lot out of Malazan. Deadhouse Gates has some tough moments, but it was also when I first realized that Malazan is something special. It sounds to me that you're ready for it!

[@Bookborn]

I've also heard from other commenters that you have a good video about the dinner scene which I am anxious to watch since I already thought that scene was so good!

[@alynam82]

I'd be anxious to watch future Malazan discussion videos between the two of you 😁

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@alynam82 You never know!

[@seanhalpin87]

I read both gardens Of the moon and deadhouse gates last month and LOVED it. It was a reread of book one. And I read the first 40% of deadhouse gates two years ago, and put it down. I finished it. I planned on doing a book a month, but after how deadhouse ended, I am trying really to hold off on memories of ice because I'm already way ahead of the read along that Alex (tall guy reads) is hosting

[@alynam82]

@@seanhalpin87 Deadhouse Gates was craaaazy. I guess so is Memories of Ice, but in a different way 😁

[@SennyGamingHQ]

Rake's story as it unfolds becomes so heartbreaking :( Though my favorite character is hands down Shadowthrone. He steals every scene he's in

[@Johanna_reads]

I was on a very similar fantasy journey as you when I read Gardens of the Moon, and I think that wildly magical ambiance was what pulled me into the story. Tattersail was also my favorite character in Gardens, and I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on other awesome female characters as you continue the series! There are so many! 🤍

[@Bookborn]

Yes I was already so impressed by how great the female characters were in this series. I assumed (wrongly) it wouldn’t be that way so I can’t wait to meet more characters

[@najawin8348]

@@Bookborn Fair warning, it is a _bit_ male-gaze-y, but in general the writers tried to start from the premise that our world's conceptions of gender roles simply never existed. Which can lead to some very empowered female characters, but can also lead to just a different sort of male gaze than is normally present.

[@esteban280889]

@@Bookborn I feel out of the books ive read its the series where woman are the most equal compared to men. They can rise to ranks in the army, they are leaders, they are gods. They generally not the damsel in distress

[@thomasranney8913]

I'm currently on Dust of Dreams, so nearing the finish line. Last week, I picked up a copy of Gardens of the Moon and starting reading it in the bookstore just to see what I thought upon a reread, and wow I cannot wait to dive back in! This series is like a great video game with infinite replayablity. Keep going, you have so much more to experience!

[@Bookborn]

Oohhh you are right near the end then! Just one more in the main series, right? Or did more come out

[@thomasranney8913]

@Bookborn Dust of Dreams is part 1 of the final story. The Crippled God is part 2, and the final book in the main series.

[@WickedGoodBooks]

The Bookborn content I’ve been waiting for

[@RedFuryBooks]

I read Gardens of the Moon last month for the first time. I didn't enjoy it as much as you did, but definitely enough to be excited for Dead House Gates!

[@Bookborn]

Supposedly that’s one of the best ones in the series so maybe you’ll enjoy that one a little more than gardens!

[@RedFuryBooks]

I hope so!

[@slidenaway]

A month late but better than never! After finding you for Sanderson content (duh) I just realized you're reading Malazan for the first time. LETS. GO. I read all 10 books for the first and second times last year -- yep, back to back. It's that good. You're gonna love it. And I'm gonna love sharing in your experience!! I don't have a lot to add that other people haven't said, just wanted to say I'm subbed now and will eagerly await the DG review!!

[@Bookborn]

Ahhh this makes me so excited! I'm about 120 pages into DG right now and really enjoying it already!

[@czterystaczterdziesciczter1676]

You just inspired me to make a reread of entire “Malazan Book of the Fallen”. Thank you. As 20 years passed since my initial reading of “Gardens of the Moon”, when you mentioned your favourite characters, I needed to check online list to know who they were (but same as you, I remembered Whiskeyjack). I have struggle a lot with first half of “Gardens of the Moon”, but I fell in love with the series after part in Darujhistan. This series helped me a lot with finding my favourite type of fantasy. I have spent a decade reading Tolkien, Pratchett, Sapkowski, R.E. Howard and Gaiman, I deeply love their works, but Glen Cook “Black Company” and Erikson Malazan series realized me that I love reading about soldiers, high stakes, with a pinch (sometimes a really big one) of magic and too many characters that I can remember. After all this years I would still name Erikson in my top 5 fantasy authors (with J.R.R. Tolkien, G.R.R. Martin and two Polish authors Robert E. Wegner, Feliks W. Kress).

[@Bookborn]

Any series with so many characters it's so difficult to remember them all (and I know that especially in Malazan, each book usually focuses on different characters). It makes me sad since I love these ones so much, but I realize that I'll probably fall in love with the others too!

[@czterystaczterdziesciczter1676]

@@Bookborn Erikson has this talent to create memorable characters, so I am 110% sure you will find new favourites in every next book. And some characters eventually reappear (but not all of them). I remember that there was some secondary (or maybe even tertiary) character whose last scene suggest to me that he will reappear later in the story, as his role is not over, but this never happened (of course I have forgot his name).

[@LyraCoda]

I tried reading Garden of the Moon 10 years ago, when I was 14 years old. Needless to say it was beyond my middle school reading skills. I also remember feeling so lost and dumb, and couldn't connect with any of the characters. In my mind, the book has been categorized as boring and convoluted, but now that I've watched this video, you've inspired me to give it another chance. Hopefully my adult self will enjoy it more haha.

[@Bookborn]

FOURTEEN??? I was 22 when I tried 😅 I think if you've been reading a lot of fantasy since then you'll be surprised how much more you pick up this time around

[@briani8785]

Yeah it’s really not that bad a second time around. May have to reread certain things, but you don’t have to understand everything 100% there is intentional ambiguity in some situations where you are meant to learn more later. But yeah reading it at 14 would be rough

[@LyraCoda]

@@briani8785 I've learned to enjoy ambiguity in fantasy since I was 14, so I have high hopes this time around haha.

[@LyraCoda]

​@@Bookborn I hope so haha. By the way, I found your point about gaining skill in fantasy reading very interesting and relatable. What do you think are some other specific skills related to reading fantasy? Getting a feel for what details you need to pay attention to and what details you can let go of is very important/helpful in enjoying high fantasy, like you. said. I honestly think using the extra tools and bits the author gives you, like glossary, maps, and notes is another skill to understand the world better. It takes some practice go back and look something up while in the midst of a chapter, and most readers don't like having to "study" to understand a book, but I think it's very beneficial in grasping the world and characters better, and is ultimately rewarding. I also go through all the character names before I begin reading a new fantasy book, and decide how I personally am going to pronounce the names. Practicing saying them in my head a few before I start helps me with finding more fluidity in reading so I'm not getting caught up on words I don't "know" how to pronounce. Anyways, I would love to see a video on both conscious and subconscious "fantasy reading skills" or habits, and how they might differ from other genres. (:

[@parkermm]

I’m just starting the fourth book and although I would say I’m pretty hooked, every single book so far I hit a point where I have to ask myself if I really care about it or if it’s really for me, and then consistently when I hit about 2/3 the books always click for me. I just needed to learn to have faith in the author.

[@Bookborn]

I even felt that slightly in Gardens already - The beginning was super amazing, and then around the midpoint I was like "hmmm....where's it going" but then by the end I was like "oh yes, here we go."

[@kazwantsamoto]

This is exactly my experience! If you ask me at the start of each book I’m not giving it great reviews. Each book leaves me obsessed and the end of the series had me wanting to do a reread

[@thefantasythinker]

Looking forward to your journey. You are in for a wild ride. I'm on my 2nd read through and I am still surprised by the amount of awesome in these books. And you're right, nearly every word matters. Read well!...Jarrod

[@matthewdeancole]

The next two novels are among the best in the series. Deadhouse Gates is my personal favorite. Memories of Ice ranks very high for a lot of people. I think The Bonehunters is the best in the latter half of the series.

[@Bookborn]

I’ve heard deadhouse gates tops a lot of best lists so I’m very eager to get to it

[@meris8486]

The Crippled God though. Damn that's such an amazing finale, the last part of that book is just payoff after payoff. I love it so much that the other books are made better knowing where everything was headed.

[@trullsengar9382]

Tbh, I'm not that hot about Bonehunters. Think Toll the Hounds and The Crippled God are far better.

[@PrinceOfGenovia]

SO PUMPED that you’re going on this journey. You’re one of my favorite book tube channels for thoughtful analysis. I keep stalling out on book 4 so hopefully I can catch your wave and make it to the end this time. The thing I like most about malazan is the way you have to sort of humble yourself and submit to the fact that you won’t fully understand everything immediately. You aren’t spoon fed a predictable narrative. And in that type of reading environment you find yourself more fully enjoying the moments, the characters, the themes, the dialogue, the prose, the imagery. Of course the narrative plot threads to come together in a satisfying way as you read on, but this one is totally about the journey not the destination.

[@Bookborn]

let's hope I make it to book four too LOL (just kidding I'm super committed to read at least half the series haha). Yeah, I think one of the best parts of it will be the discussion - when it's not spoonfed, there is going to be so much room for personal interpretation and I think that's really cool

[@hellgast0]

One of my favorite characters was Kruppe. Having these weird dreams and pretending to be a nobody when you know he has more power than he lets on. Also I liked that there wasn't a clear "good" and "bad" in this story. Everyone just has their own motives and goals and I did enjoy almost every pov.

[@Bookborn]

Yeah Erikson did a very good job of how he weaved the narrative of the Malazan Empire characters and the city characters who are in opposition - yet we see from both their sides. It was done very well. Kruppes dreams were probably some of the most interesting chapters in the entire series, although his persona at first turned me off 🤣

[@tammyd4208]

Yes! I kept expecting a defined “bad guy” and then realized, the bad guy really depended on which side you were on.

[@SundraTanakoh]

@@tammyd4208 Much like poor misunderstood Thanos.

[@timholland1764]

As a new reader to Malazan, glad to see you diving back into this. Really enjoying the series through book 3. Totally agree with your favorite characters... And agree Rake is very interesting and cool but not my all time favorite.

[@devonholshausen8398]

“Deadhouse gates” is where the series got a hook in me. The whole journey of the chain of dogs is so riveting and some of the best grand fantasy I’ve ever read. One thing I’ve found with reading Malazan is I googled all the names as I read and reminded myself who they were. That helped keep the strand of the story.

[@ffc1a28c7]

The scene with the trees at the end (if ya know, ya know), was fucking terrifying. Probably the most visceral feeling I've gotten from a book ever.

[@alder2460]

I've been waiting for this so long! Malazan changed the way I perceive fantasy. Reading Gardens of the Moon in which so many PoV kept dying, and new PoV were introduced, was hard at first, but I kept reading as it hooked me up somehow. Each character was developed and fun to read. This fear, that those characters can die at any moment just because, made my reading experience a lot better. I just didn’t know what to expect. I’ve read Song of Ice and Fire before, where many characters died, but it wasn’t on that scale. And the idea of a large pantheon of gods meddling in human affairs, with the powerful magic, completely new races to imagine, made me want to explore more and more of this unique new world. The only thing I would change in the book was to add on the map an arrow pointing towards the titular Malazan Empire. First chapters were in Malazan, many PoV were from Malazan, and for some reason I just assumed that the Malazan Empire must be somewhere on the attached map, and I was fixated on finding it on the map. I realized my mistake at the very end of the book, when they were sailing to the Empire… So not only you was “too stupid” to understand it :D I have it easy with pronunciation as most names were translated to my Polish language, the city of “Darujhistan” was very easy to say in Polish - “Darudżystan”, where dż is like j in joy. But the downside is that every name is different in English and I have to think for a moment what character people are talking about.

[@Bookborn]

That's so funny, I also thought "I need way more maps" lol! I'm not even really a fantasy map person, but there were several times I went and attempted to look at what was going on. I think the consequences are one of the best parts of the book, for sure. It makes having super powerful characters more interesting since you're still worried for them constantly.

[@gavinrbeckett]

The Malazan maps are super confusing even after you’ve read lots of the books and have built up a collection of maps of different continents… but don’t go looking for them until later in the series or you’ll spoil yourself!!

[@elifriedman317]

Impressed how you caught on to so much nuance of Eriksons writing on your first read, and excited for you to have your brain and heart exploded by deadhouse gates

[@escase3995]

I actually had to restart the book twice, I had no idea what was going on lol now I'm on Reaper's Gale (book 7) and trust me, this is one hell of a journey. The chain of dogs in Deadhouse Gates, all the stuff that happens in Memories of Ice.. Keep going! And yes, you'll get to see more really strong female characters. Apsalar, Tavore, Shaiik.. Apsalar is my favourite character of the series

[@DrakkanWoW]

I am so happy you picked this back up! This series is so good, but also tough on the brain! I am currently on book 7 and have been putting other books (typically Sanderson re-reads!) between each Malazan book - my brain needs the break. However, I am constantly finding myself come back to Malazan and just thinking about the political intrigue in the books. Erikson writes it so well! Also, no spolier here, but I feel like everything I heard about Malazan before I started the series was that Anomander Rake was a favorite character. I liked Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice the most out of the first 6 so far. Enjoy!!!

[@gavinrbeckett]

So great to hear your views and that you’ve enjoyed Gardens of the Moon 😊 and good that you want to know more about the gods… that should make the rest of the books pretty satisfying 😉

[@Bookborn]

You're reading Deadhouse with us too yeah?? Can't wait to inundate you with all my questions lol

[@gavinrbeckett]

@@Bookborn oh yeah, I’ll be reading along with the whole series, I’m so pleased to have a reason to revisit them 😊 and it’s always more fun with friends 😂

[@gavinmorrison1229]

Great stuff! Can't wait to follow along

[@heroofthyme4237]

I’m so glad to hear many people find it hard to get through

[@thatsci-firogue]

I finished the series early last year, and it solidified itself as one of my all-time favourites and I may have started a re-read earlier today, this time incorporating the wider Malazan world. I also love Tattersail, Quick Ben, Lorn and Sorry. If I'd to pick just one favourite from Gardens it's Tattersail, followed very closely by Lorn. Looking forward to more of your thoughts on the series.

[@Bookborn]

Yesss Tattersail supremacy!

[@FBoldi42]

I also finished gardens of the moon like two weaks ago so the memory is still fresh. I really enjoyed the wildness of the magic too, in the last few months I read a lot of Abercrombie books, so haven't seen large magical battles in a while. I also liked the worldbuilding and I'm looking forward to learn more about the magic system and the world.

[@Bookborn]

Absolutely love Abercrombie but I do find I'm always ready for a little more magic when I'm done with First Law

[@jjakjjak5231]

Giant Malazan fan. And your journey will be witnessed. Seriously, I was most impressed by the last few books. They broke my heart, gave hope and inspired my imagination. I see why people wouldn't like the series. But if you liked GotM, then my advice is to read it all. His style improves, and his portrayal of people doesn't slack.

[@Bookborn]

I'm pretty stubborn so something big is going to have to happen for me to quit at this point LOL

[@jordendarrett1725]

I read the first 80 pages at one point, was enjoying it so definitely plan on coming back to it one of these days!

[@andrewhanson405]

Great review! I love this book. Hairlock was my boy

[@Bookborn]

The stuff with Hairlock is absolutely chilling. I loved it.

[@Vadeemers]

I asked you probably over a year ago if you were going to read/review this book/series. I recall that you replied that you had tried it once and it was on the list but you had to be in the right place to tackle that challenge. I admit that when I saw the notification of your "Gardens of the Moon" review that I was a bit nervous to hear what you had to say. But that was silly. Of course you liked it and I agree with all of your takes. I definitely was confused during my first (and second) read of the book and I think a majority of readers probably are. I don't want to spoil the backstory but if you know how Erickson and Esselmont came to develop the Malazan books it makes sense why the first one is especially confusing and I'll leave it at that. In my first read Anomander Rake, Quick Ben, and Whiskeyjack were my favorites but with each re-read I found myself liking other characters such as Tattersail just as much. Your giggling while mentioning the marionet with a soul in it was my favorite part of the review as I, and I suspect most readers, felt the same way. Without giving away any spoilers so speaking in the most general terms I really love the magic system although I will admit to being a bit annoyed the first time around because I was so confused. Can't wait to hear more Malazan reviews!

[@Bookborn]

Hairlock as a marionette with a painted face that can’t move is literally CHILLING. it would be hard to get right, but can you imagine that in an adaptation? Pure horror

[@henryking5496]

Definitely dropping a sub here, and plan to follow along avidly. Can't wait for you to step into Deadhouse Gates. As good as Gardens of the Moon is, it is the weakest entry in a ten-book series. That's not hyperbole in any way. Erikson wrote Gardens with the intention of it being the basis for a screenplay. After shopping it around for nine years, he decided it wasn't going to happen, got down to brass tacks, and churned out the rest of the series at a mind-blowing pace. The result is, in my opinion, the best (not just fantasy, not just fiction) literature I have ever had the pleasure of consuming.

[@Bookborn]

Everyone says Gardens is the worst and if that's true for me then this is going to be a WILD (very good) ride

[@fireblazer6661]

I too gave Malazan a second chance and wow... NO REGRETS! I had read Gardens of the Moon back in 2014, and while I found it really good, I had a hard time with it (I was doing year 4 of a 5 year BA English honours degree, so I had a lot on my plate). Gave it a second read in 2019 and it was much more enjoyable the second time. I have a hard time remembering stuff so I'm constantly looking things up. Reading Toll the Hounds right now and finding I've forgotten a lot since 2019. Best writing I've ever read. Well worth the effort and time. I just wish I had a better memory. I have every book Erikson and Esslemont have written in the Malazan universe, and have pre-ordered Forge of the High Mage. I've managed to get all but 3 books in hardcover. Wish they'd get a reprint. I've been reading in publication order, but this has caused some time gaps between main series book readings while I read side books, which has been a bit problematic for remembering stuff. I've referenced Malazan Wiki Fandom, and Tor Rereads a TONNNN, and some guy who made google slides with detailed chapter summaries (hundreds of slides per book). I would buy some side guide type books if they were written! We could use them. Like an encyclopedia of characters and their exploits in each book chronologically (like how Malazan wiki fandom does it).

[@zan8152]

I had a similar experience to you, and I think the series' reputation for being hard to read legit just comes down to.... reading skill? Experience? Something like that. I went in with my only other fantastic experience really being ASOIaF and... that's a complex series, but not one that's doing anything strange with the narrative or the way it's told. if you've read more, read more literary works especially, nothing Malazan is doing is going to be that hard, but starting out with it as a more novice reading it just feels like a brick wall. So glad you enjoyed it this time around!

[@Bookborn]

I totally agree. I think if you’ve read a lot of narratives that have a lot of viewpoints you get into the rhythm of it. First time around I was just too inexperienced!

[@thewhiskybowman]

Oh you will have the Chain of Dogs to come soon in Deadhouse Gates. Probably my favourite section of the entire series. Not exactly an easy read, but so well done. It'll be interesting to see your take on it.

[@Bookborn]

People keep saying there are some intense scenes in the next book 👀 Interested to see what they are...

[@hellgast0]

I read this book last year, and I also didn't really find it confusing. Trying to explain it to friends and family what the book is about, now that is the real challenge. I do plan on reading the entire series, but I'm taking my time with it.

[@Scubasteve5022]

I had the same issue! I ended up telling people to read it then we’ll talk 😂

[@Bookborn]

That’s so funny because yes I have no idea how I’d talk about what it’s about 🤣 I know I’m my heart what it is but explaining it succinctly probably wouldn’t work

[@fiddleleaffiction]

Oh my gosh that tiktok at 8:05 GOT ME I am crying 😂 I’m excited to give this series a try one day! I am a pretty new fantasy reader so I’m a bit intimidated by it - I might need a few more years of skill under my belt first 😊 you are inspiring to me and I love your videos!

[@Bookborn]

I have it saved to my phone it TOOK ME OUT the first time I saw it...like I've never identified with a video more 🤣 Thanks for watching!!

[@jer2dabear]

Omg that's so me!!

[@tammyd4208]

Yay!🎉 Loved GotM also, it was so good! Interested to hear what you think of Deadhouse Gates, I just finished it and have thoughts. Really enjoyed your review.

[@Bookborn]

Oohh "thoughts"...that could be positive or negative 🤣

[@tammyd4208]

@@Bookborn 😂 unpopular opinion but I liked GoTM more. 🫣 I’m really interested in joining in on the live discussion for GotM, will there be more info on it coming soon? 💕

[@trlspann]

I’m currently reading book 3 Memories of Ice and I think this is where the rubber really hits the road. Going back to familiar characters and having some previous story threads start to come together really makes a difference. Epic!

[@VoyagesIntoImagination]

Somewhat similar journey here. I first read GotM roughly 20 years ago, and liked it enough that I read up through Book 4. I then bounced off of Midnight Tides. A couple of months ago, I decides that it was time to finish the the series, which at that point meant restarting from scratch. My second reading of GotM (finished in September) was like reading a completely different book, which was not just good but AMAZING. It was *still* confusing in places, but I was able to trust that Erikson knew what he was doing and was giving me everything I really needed to understand what was going on in that particular book, even though I understood that a lot of mysteries of the world and the over-arching plot wouldn't be revealed in this first book. Plus I had already read the next couple of books, so a lot of the pieces in GotM made a lot more sense. I have now successfully finished Midnight Tides, and have started The Bonehunters.

[@VeshAeryn]

I can totally understand it being hard to get into. I wasn't able to actually get into it until like the 4th time trying. For some reason things just started to click and I am so happy it did because I love the world and characters.

[@akellerhouse83]

I never had any difficulty reading Malazan. It's definitely dense, but I'm willing to wait and see what info is important. My favorite character is Quick Ben. I also love Kalam, Parran, Sorry and Crokus. And others you haven't met yet. Deadhouse Gates is one of my absolute favorites of the whole series. There are crossover characters from Gardens, but different ones will be prominent in DG. It does take place on a whole different continent tho. Can't wait to hear your thoughts about DG!

[@Bookborn]

I’m so excited for desdhouse gates since so many people say it’s their favorite in the series! Fun to know we are on a completely different continent…

[@briani8785]

Yeah I’m just wrapping up dead house gates. I haven’t found it that confusing either. Sure there are some ambiguous moments but that is what’s intriguing to think about and it’s rewarding as things become more clear. I do find myself rereading things sometimes and just accepting it’s not my fault I don’t quite know what’s going on in that moment with what a character is saying. Especially in DHG

[@bryson2662]

Welcome to the club. Favorite was Lorne or Toc and Tool

[@Glokta4]

I'm only on Memories of Ice, so I have a long way to go with Malazan. I felt like Gardens of the Moon starts out like a TV show when there's a cut in for a severe storm. The beginning is like "We now return you to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress."

[@nathanshute3388]

I am halfway through book 4 on a reread and am so excited to hear your take on the series as it is one of my favourites. Rereading GOTM was such a great experience because you understand so much more of the world and things that you had to let wash over you (like Azath or Finnest) had much more clarity and impact to the story 2nd time around. I think the beauty of the books and the fandom is that it's hard to have a hot take because characters, scenes and individual books have so much depth and unique appeal that each reader can find something different in them. This makes people's "favourites" lists very different and helps create an interesting dialogue. I love Deadhouse Gates as an individual story and it probably my favourite of the series in that respect. On a reread and with the whole series in mind, Memories of Ice has been my favourite so far. However, this is like picking a favourite child 😂

[@Bookborn]

Yeah, I think that's going to be one of the most fun things about discussing these books, is there is SO much left up for interpretation that there will be so much to dive in to!

[@hunter58gaming]

The objectively correct top five characters from gardens of the moon: 1. Kruppe 2. Kruppe 3. Kruppe 4. Kruppe 5. The Eel

[@MrMcraph19]

Love seeing you giving the series a shot! Little tip, although the 10 books tell a complete story I think it helps viewing each book as a stand alone story when starting each book

[@Bookborn]

Just from osmosis that's sort of what I guessed - Because I remember distinctly feeling like I probably wouldn't see this characters as main characters again. But I think that's pretty cool and doesn't turn me off from the series at all!

[@saptarshimukherjee8778]

I've heard a lot about Malazaan. Looking forward to Bookborn's review to every one of the books. Well, at least the book of the fallen.

[@Bookborn]

Thanks! Yep...just starting with Book of the Fallen right now... that's a big enough project as it is 😂

[@esteban280889]

WhiskyJack is my fav from this book. If you love Duos this is the series for you. Soooo many good ones.

[@Bookborn]

It's hard not to love WhiskyJack...I mean there's a reason he was the only character I remembered from a decade ago lol

[@sharxboy]

I feel horrible when my friends put themselves down. Thanks for the great review!

[@45Racing5]

I'm also starting Malzan this year after finishing the Wheel of Time. I'm excited to see what it's like.

[@Bookborn]

Did you like WoT??

[@45Racing5]

@@Bookborn I loved it. Probably my favorite book series ever

[@rustydog2112]

There are so many inexplicable things in the Malazan series. This is the only series I've ever read that I had to stop trying to make sense of it. As far as the metaphysical elements, if there's something I don't understand fully, I just have to let it wash over me and keep reading the books as an experience. And the strangeness and inexplicability of some of the story elements is actually what keeps me coming back.

[@Bookborn]

Yes agreed! I don't let it bother me anymore and figure if it's super important to the story I'll understand it later, or else, it's nice to just have it be purely magical

[@diogonascimento9437]

I'm on the third book now and it's very rewarding to understand things and look back and be like "ohhhh so that's what it was" I'm really enjoying it

[@Ulmo90]

Enjoy, Malazan is great! I only have the tenth book left in the series, which I'll pick up this winter

[@Bookborn]

Oh wow! You're nearing the end!

[@ciaranirvine]

Very timely video, I just decided to tackle Malazan and just finished Gardens of the Moon as well. I'd mostly agree with your top 5 characters though I'd probably have to cheat and do a Top 6 just to add Kruppe. I think he'd enjoy that. The first half of Gardens is a bit of a struggle and very dense, you are just thrown into this world and Erikson just lets us figure it out as we go on, but the second half was a lot easier (though still with a lot of "WTF, I guess we'll understand this later" moments). I think, as you said, maybe not for a beginner fantasy reader but once you've digested stuff like the Silmarillion or the Cosmere you should be ready for Malazan. Really looking forward to starting Deadhouse Gates and seeing where this world takes us!

[@Bookborn]

Kruppe had some of the most interesting chapters but I refuse to put a character who uses third person in my top 5 🤣

[@excellent.side.characters]

My takeaway from every Malazan review so far was that the story sounds extremely complex and is very likely not for me. But your review actually makes it sound really intriguing (I definitely want to know what's up with that soul going into a marionette 😬). And the themes you mention, especially the way gods are included in the story, sound awesome. I think your video has just single-handedly convinced me to give Malazan a try :)

[@Wouter_K]

If you find it intriguing, I think it can still be for you. If you are resistant to not understanding everything and trusting that even if it is in the next book, unclear things will be addressed later on. Matt has a nice video ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGTIhYeFrdl5obM ) with helpful resources like a link to a ppt for the first books that actually gives the story summary (with some nice artwork) on a chapter to chapter basis without spoilers. So you can literally go back after reading the chapter and see what was important or go back a few chapters later if you forgot something, without going through all the pages.

[@Bookborn]

I think that if you go in just wanting to connect to the characters and not caring a ton about the wider implications for every single detail, you could really enjoy it. For me, I felt on a first read it was totally easy for me just to focus on the story at hand - sure there were a lot of other details for bigger things (like the inclusion of the gods), but I never felt that it was too overwhelming!

[@charlesburge2564]

@@Bookborn That's honestly the best way to enjoy it as a lot of the details you didn't understand make sense as context is fleshed out through the books

[@michaelfeeney6108]

I plan to read these soon. I followed a read through podcast if anyone is curious. Called ‘Ten Very Big Books’ - not sure if it’s full spoiler fjr the series or not (if so I’ll obviously not listen while I read). If it just goes book by book, I’ll probably listen to each set of book episodes after finishing each book. It started in early 2019 and they’re on book 9..

[@Bookborn]

I feel like Malazan is one of those series that having a few spoilers for isn't that big of a deal...there's so much happening and going on, one or two spoilers wouldn't ruin my enjoyment.

[@michaelfeeney6108]

@@Bookborn agreed! Sometimes knowing things helps me focus/remember more.

[@helene9299]

I listen to ten very big books at the same time as reading. I'm finally up to date with them. I highly recommend it, it was great to know if I was meant to be confused or not! It's completely safe to listen to as you're reading, there's no spoilers in the main episodes (there's a complete series spoiler episode at the end of each book but you just skip those ones). The group who do it are made up of 1 guy who's read the whole series and 2/3 people who haven't and are reading for the first time. So it gets a good balance of drawing attention to things that are important, but not spoiling anything.

[@michaelfeeney6108]

@@helene9299 Thank you so much for that info! I’ve been putting off diving in (much like the books!). This makes me want to begin sooner.

[@readbykyle3082]

I also really liked Lorn! Idk what her popularity is in the fandom but I agree that her character was really interesting. Tattersail and Whiskeyjack 🔥💪

[@Johanna_reads]

Philip did a great video about Lorn and the dinner scene! Highly recommend! 😊

[@Bookborn]

Looks like we have some research before our live Kyle

[@gavinrbeckett]

Love that you’ve both got Whiskeyjack in your top 5, and also am in strong agreement with @bookborn on Quick Ben - he’s absolutely one of my favourites

[@moresoysauce5489]

Im on page like 400 something right now and holy crap this story just jumps off the page once you get to like the halfway point. It might just be that it took me that long to get used to the writing style but man this book is so good. From what other have said i assumed i would just kinda "get through" books 1&2 and start to enjoy it in book 3 so im really happy that im enjoying GotM so much. Its really something special.

[@Bookborn]

Yes! Halfway it really starts coming together!

[@nenerson1195]

Great review, but also your shirt is fantastic! 😂

[@Bookborn]

Thank you 🤣 "Its about the *cones*"

[@meris8486]

I like how the second chapter for Gardens Of The Moon is an epic battle over Pale, the Bridgeburners at their peak, with a cadre of the Malazan empires most powerful mages and even a few Gods hiding among them. All fighting against the Tiste Andii and Anomander Rake. It's so much so suddenly, the kind of battle that most series would have after multiple books of build-up. But Erikson just yeets you in the deep end on chapter 2. Gardens Of The Moon is one of those books I appreciate much more after completing the series and is probably a lot of fun on reread once you have context.

[@simonedwards9450]

Just started book 2: deadhouse gates. I really loved gardens of the moon but i felt probably was the most complicated book I’ve ever read. It made war and peace look simple. But there’s something about it that makes me want to keep going

[@esteban280889]

I do hope you do the full series. Such a great expansive world. Merphy just finished the 4th but takes long breaks, see if you can beat her to the end ;)

[@Bookborn]

lol I'll have to tell her I'm going to try and beat her the next time we chat 🤣

[@christerdehlin8866]

I reread Gardens of the Moon this year too, after ditching it halfway through back in 2005 or 6. It was a bit of a struggle, because nothing is ever explained, but I loved it by the end, and it was worth the effort, because Deadhouse Gates is SO much better. I'm a fan now, and just ordered Memories of Ice.

[@captain4318]

While I haven't yet read it, it's been sitting on my shelves for a while now. I read the first 2 chapters and loved the writing, but I just need to wrap up a couple series before starting a new one.

[@Bookborn]

Yeah and it does take a moment to get through so it's sort of nice to start fresh when you've finished other outstanding series!

[@abadmofaux7438]

I listened to it and had to rewind and listen to the first two chapters 5 times before I moved on, very confusing but once I got past it it was one of my 2 best listens ever

[@Bookborn]

I've heard listening to Malazan is really though. I already have a hard time listening to things so I know that I absolutely can't do this series on audio

[@SundraTanakoh]

@@Bookborn You have to give it all of your attention when listening, so NOT in the car....it is worth the time you give it!

[@berserker8884]

Didn't know there was a THIRD way to pronounce Malazan. I love it lol.

[@Bookborn]

Trust me to ruin it all 🤣🤣🤣

[@berserker8884]

@@Bookborn hahaa, loved the video btw!

[@nazhopkins5825]

I remember the first time I read this I was half way through, had absolutely no idea what was going on but I wanted to read it again. As soon as I finished it I started reading Deadhouse gates and Audiobooked Gardens at the same time. I know...but I love this series!

[@Bookborn]

I love the energy of "I have no idea what's happening but I LOVE IT" because that's sort of me too lol

[@billellis2507]

The cones of dunshire t shirt is goated

[@Bookborn]

It’s. About. The. *cones*.

[@RodgersReads]

Fun! I am trying GotM this month so fingers crossed I love it too. What made it 4.5 and not 5? The video felt like a gush but you only talked about your favorite things and not any critiques that knocked off that half star lol.

[@Bookborn]

This is really weird but sometimes a book just doesn't ~feel~ like a five 🤣 I think some of it was the density/slowness at points. Otherwise, I didn't quite get that 5-star spark, even though I highly enjoyed it.

[@RodgersReads]

@@Bookborn huh fair enough. It’s always fascinating what makes something 5-stars or not for someone. So in the case it was just missing that nebulous je ne sais quois 🤔

[@Beard_Hood]

I've had to re read each book 3 times before I finally got what was going on. And I always end up loving the book

[@Bookborn]

I have a feeling already that I’ll need to reread the entire series once I’m done to catch all the things I missed (well not ALL in one reread but at least some lol)

[@Beard_Hood]

@@Bookborn I'm about 5 in and both my brothers have read the entire series several times. Some how the author manages to make you fall for every character and that makes every next book harder to pick up.

[@esteban280889]

@@Bookborn its def designed to be reread, there will be stuff you probably wont understand until your second lap.

[@PhilBrillant]

Yay ! Welcome to the Fandom:)

[@Bookborn]

I can already tell this is going to make me deep dive and spend way too many hours on this 😂

[@PhilBrillant]

@@Bookborn lol I was obsessed the first time reading through the main series of 10 books. The ending is so rewarding . I think thats why it's in most people who finishes top 5 series of all time.

[@turnpikenorth]

I’ve read the series multiple times, no real hot takes in your video, but I did say “just you wait” out loud a few times.

[@Bookborn]

I had a feeling that might be the case as I stumble through blind not knowing anything 🤣

[@bookrisingisclosed]

Heya :) I have read only the first book in this series, GotM - and I personally really enjoyed it. I don't think this is a good series for someone who is new to fantasy to just jump into. I agree with you 100% on that. I have been reading fantasy for a long time now, I'm in my 50's (older guy lol), so I had no problems with it. I haven't picked up the 2nd book yet, but I feel it is on the near horizon. Enjoyed the video!

[@Bookborn]

I agree - I'm sure there are a few newbies out there it worked for, but ultimately, I think you have to build up the skill of keeping so many details in pace!

[@bookrisingisclosed]

@@Bookborn - for sure :)

[@parcaleste]

I am just re-reading the series and I am the end of Memories of Ice... boy, does this book hit HARD. I am already a bit envious of you and your first adventure through it, though, I don't think listening and not reading the books provides the best experience for this series.

[@tw7998]

I ttried this series many years ago and could not get into it, perhaps it is time for me to try again! as you mention it is one of the most respected there is. Your first fantasy (wot, sanderson, weeks) was a shrewd choice to start by the way.

[@Bookborn]

Totally walked blindly into those series and they are still some of my favs so I guess I got lucky haha

[@tw7998]

@@Bookborn i only discovered Sanderson because he finished WOT, but he is easily my favourite author now. And- i have just bought gardens of the moon for kindle so thanks for the recommendation :)

[@dreddiknight]

I read this one many years ago before it had a reputation for being "difficult to understand" (early 00's) and I fell in love with its unique atmosphere. The way it's written and some of the long-lived characters helped give it this atmosphere that the current state of play had been eon's in the making... It just felt old, epic and lived in, in a way that felt completely new to me. And it still does although Stornlight Archives and Kingkiller Chronicles come close in different ways. Fave characters at this point for me were: Quick Ben, Kalam Whiskeyjack, Rake and Tattersail. But like you I liked them all! Enjoy the journey; I envy anyone setting out on it for the first time... 🤔 Second time around. Every book slaps in a different way and it builds to something I feel is quite incredible. My favourite is Memories of Ice which is both grim and uplifting sometimes on the same page. ✌🏿

[@Bookborn]

Memories of Ice seems to be the one most mentioned as a favorite after Deadhouse Gates. Excited to get to all of them!

[@mattkean1128]

I really should pick it back up. I have no idea where it goes from where I left off from book 2.

[@Bookborn]

Since they are all new characters I wonder how hard it would be to just...go to book 3 even if it's been a while.

[@JustinNauman]

The PoV change can be VERY confusing, especially for audiobook listeners, for sure a writing style change after coming from WoT and Stormlight. That was my biggest hurdle, but I kept going, part way through Memories of Ice now. :)

[@JamanMosil]

I'm not alone!! I also read book one...also about 10 years ago...also thought I was too stupid for this series. And also gave it up after that first book. All I remember now is Anomander Rake (sp?) and his sword. I mean, right? Now...I suppose I should follow your footsteps and try this one again. Thanks for the encouragement!! Maybe I too will find this one less confusing than I did originally. (I feel like this video was for me haha)

[@Bookborn]

DO IT! I bet you’d be surprised how much it’s changed now that we are older and wiser 🤣

[@JamanMosil]

@@Bookborn I'm definitely older :D

[@esteban280889]

Anomander is a great character!

[@blacknbluecollarreader]

Excellent content!! I just finished GOTM a week ago (for my 1st time lol).......and I am now entering the "fandom" but I'm not sure if there is some sort of initiation I have to go through or contract I have sign....if someone could point me in the right direction I'd highly appreciate it. lol. I loved the characters!! Tattersail and Kruppe especially. However, I do believe that because of the amount of POV's we encounter that we really don't to get to dive to far into any one character. Excellent video.

[@Bookborn]

Lol I know right 🤣😭 I’m like… where do I start… be nice please I’m a noob

[@FilthyMezla]

I also started reading Gardens about a week and a half ago. I read the entire series maybe six years ago (plus Esslemonts) and felt that it was time to give it a reread. For me the second "A" is the long A, and the last A is nearly an "E" sound "Malaazen/malahzen"

[@raswartz]

Deadhouse Gates - correct. You will be in a new setting with (mostly) new characters.

[@SundraTanakoh]

My first read was tough. So I re-read it a second time and went on to finish the series. I actually read the series TWICE. But opted for my third time to listen to it through Audible. (I have rockets falling near us here in Ukraine so lots of blackouts and I used my iPhone to listen to the books). I have to say not only is MBoTF the end game boss of the dungeon, it is the best series I have ever read. Ever. And at 71 years old, I am sure I going to read it at least one more time before I go to the big library in the sky. Do not over look the Audible option, it is addictive!

[@Bookborn]

Audible is tough for me because I'm not a great audio-book listener (much prefer to read physical!) but I may try audio for a reread! I hope you are staying safe 🙏

[@nargalda773]

btw if you read first book, and dont understand something, its normal, as you MUST read atleast 3 following books in row, as it always explaneid why, when, and how everything happen, and story from later books pretty much expected that you know who is who from previous booksm so i DO NOT recomend skip any books to end

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

Malazan is awesome. I just started it recently. About to get into book 3.

[@Bookborn]

Is Deadhouse gates as good as everyone says?

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

@@Bookborn Thanks for replying. I like it basically just as much as book 1. I-d love to talk about it with you if you're up for that.

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

@@Bookborn The military aspect of the story is more front and centre in DG, but the story is more linear than in Gardens. And you will meet one of the most polarizing characters in the series (well, two actually, but spoilers!). But the Chain of Dogs storyline is truly epic.

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

I mean on my channel, if you're interested and once you finish it. I wasn-t inviting myself on yours or anything like that.

[@ishandeulkar9935]

i just finished the first book yesterday! it took me like 5 tried and i never made it past the first few chapters every time. im so glad i did so though its fantastic

[@Bookborn]

Fifth times the charm! Are you going on to book 2 right away or giving it some time?

[@ishandeulkar9935]

@@Bookborn I was planning to take some time and read another book or 2 but i ended up getting deadhouse gates on audible and am already a few hours in 😅

[@ViperRT99]

I just finished it myself after putting it down 15 years ago. It took me four months and I read numerous books during that time. I didn't connect with any of the characters (except maybe Tattersail), and just wanted everyone to die (Kruppe most of all) and the Cripple God to win. I'm told it's the worst book of the bunch, but even though I picked up Deadhouse Gates at the same time, I'm not sure I'm going to pick up a book with all new characters somewhere else.

[@Bookborn]

LMAO KRUPPE was it his third-person narration? Because that was rough for me too haha

[@ViperRT99]

@@Bookborn Yes. Viper99 very much could have done without him talking about himself in third person. Viper99 could.

[@l.a.b.chimmy866]

Voy por el cuarto libro y recién le estoy agarrando la viada. Bien dicen que si pasas el primero no te arrepentirás 😅

[@kingslayer3365]

Lorn! I miss her so much 😢

[@CarlomPetersen]

Lorne, isn't that much of a hot take. The scene of the diner with Tattersail, lives in my brain rent free. Sorry is a cool flip on an old trope, the assassin girl who's actually a male god, and her resilience is great

[@Bookborn]

Yes finding out she was the male god was very cool I just liked that entire storyline! Good to hear on Lorn - wasn’t sure if people hated her or not but I just really vibed

[@stephenlogsdon8266]

It really takes off in book 3 which is where I’m at. Doing the audios helped.

[@Bookborn]

I think I would not survive reading audio of this...too many names and places and my mind wanders too easily 🤣

[@jimave]

I also felt dumb listening to this series! It doesn’t get any easier. I had to goto the fandom page all the time just to figure out what the heck was going on. I plowed through the series and I’m glad that I did. After finishing book 10, I re-listened to GOTM and it made more sense. I’m in the process of listening to the prequels. Also challenging stuff.

[@Bookborn]

I’ve heard that listening is particularly challenging - I know for sure I wouldn’t have made it through on audio lol

[@jimave]

@@Bookborn I read one of the novels and I was more confused! I struggle with phonics, so trying to figure out the names of the characters and locations was challenging.

[@aliciasorenson3807]

I still have never picked up that series. I never heard about it until I got into booktube like 6 years ago. And then the first I heard of it was that one book tuber thought it's better than The Wheel of Time(also my first adult fantasy, started when I was 20). I have a rebellious streak, and so my automatic response was nope. No way. So it put a bad taste in my mouth, lol. I realize I should just give it a chance because this reason is ridiculous, but there's so many other books I want to read.😆

[@Bookborn]

LOL I get that way too (some Malazan fans can get a little intense too saying no other series will ever be good after which like… I know won’t be true for me no matter how much I like it). I don’t blame you for waiting though it’s a pretty big time commitment…

[@JoelAdamson]

I read about 120 pages a few years ago, but was irritated that it was jumping all over the place. I liked Tattersail, but she's only in it for like 25 pages of what I read. As soon as I thought "here's a character I can grab onto," VOOP! we're off to the other side of the world.

[@Bookborn]

It def is like that which is why I think I struggled understanding it the first time around. Maybe because this time I went into it just thinking "whatever the journey is I'll accept" that this time I got into it.

[@hillary6563]

I've tried to read it a couple of times. I've yet to finish it. 😅

[@joeleonard1314]

Once I came to the realization that there was going to be about 15 to 20 % of these books that I just wasn't going to comprehend... I started to enjoy it. There's just so much in there. But it's so good I can get past that and just enjoy the 80% I do comprehend.

[@Bookborn]

I do think going into it KNOWING that you won't understand stuff was the key to my success this time. Everyone needs to know that going in.

[@evanmiller4502]

i recently just finished gardens of the moon, and i gotta say i dont think ive EVER enjoyed the start of a fantasy series near as much as i did with this book

[@noneofyourbusiness3288]

My absolute favorite character in Malazan has to be Fiddler. Kalam a distant second (not that I dont also love him, but Fiddler ... on a different level). also: any Malazan and/or metal fan, I highly recommend the album "Echoes of Battle" by the band Caladan Brood. The perfect sound-track for the books. ^^

[@MattonBooks]

I ♥ seeing people fall in ♥ with Malazan for the first time. Great review! Your takes weren't too hot, but you didn't answer the _most important_ question: what do you think of Kruppe?! 🙂

[@MattonBooks]

Also, I recently did an explainer video for chapter 2, the siege of Pale, that might interest you as a new reader.

[@Bookborn]

Kruppe really grew on me - the way he had control of his dreams was fascinating and so cool - but yeah, did his third person narration get on my nerves a little bit? Maybe 🤣🤫

[@MattonBooks]

@@Bookborn he’s a real love/hate character, but it sounds like you _might_ be a member of #TeamKruppe? 😜

[@joevesayaporn]

Hey I'm just rereading it after ten years, second time round is so much better. In book 6.

[@tonkabeanicecream5698]

I tried it, I have read 100s of books, I quit. Maybe il try it again another day but I didn't love not knowing what was going on and felt lost a lot.

[@Bookborn]

It's def not an experience that everyone is going to like!