I HATE the direction Play Design has pushed Magic the Gathering towards...

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[@galactuskev]

Don't forget how many play design members quit because they were not listened too. Sam black did not want companions

[@anxez]

Wait, I haven't heard anything about that. Has anyone reported on that without being an incoherent rant channel?

[@isaiahsmith7123]

We can thank the rules committee for allowing WOTC to pull that pablum.

[@Aaron-wv5si]

Which reveals the actual problem. Not sure why so many people think that all these cards slipped by play design. They didn’t. Just like most companies, it isn’t Design making the call, it’s Marketing.

[@DimensionPlant]

Couldn't find anything on this, could we per chance get a link to your source?

[@Aaron-wv5si]

@pounde hande What on earth does that have to do with whether or not campanions were a good idea from a gameplay perspective? Did you reply to the wrong comment or what?

[@GameShark9000]

Magic Community: These new cards broke the game forever! Yugioh Community: First time?

[@Digger-Nick]

Yugioh was never a balanced game to begin with lol

[@Digger-Nick]

@Richard Sejour Yugioh was never a fair or strategic game, ever since its inception. It's checkers compared to magic (chess). Yugioh was always broken and always will be.

[@chrisgould101]

@Richard Sejour triggered

[@cowless]

@@Digger-Nick lmao have you ever played Yu-Gi-Oh? It has had multiple periods in time where the"standard"strategies were fair. Get out of your magic echo chamber one day. They have both had large stints of both broken and fair play. Do your research lol

[@Digger-Nick]

@@cowless Have you? Yugioh was dogshit when it came out and still is. Again, there is a reason why nobody older than the age of 10 plays that game. I used to be one of those people. It's not 2003, nobody cares about or plays that game anymore. It died the moment GX was released.

[@LeetMasterAce]

Magic really stopped being the "tit for tat" game of interesting creature interactions ever since Planeswalkers came out. I think the power level of walkers really shifted the game, for better or worse (worse imo)

[@MyrdalMx]

Word.

[@theperfectbeing]

I'd love a playmode that just bans all planeswalkers

[@Ac0ustics0ul]

exactly

[@TheSobertoaster]

+1. planeswalkers ruined the game.

[@SonictheBedHog]

Plainswalkers suck my nutterbutter.

[@jordanshuriken]

Play design has murdered fair magic. There isn't a format where you can play fair magic anymore. Just a ton of degenerate decks that pilot themselves.

[@anactualopinion868]

Non competitive EDH

[@rogerhurtubise2150]

@@anactualopinion868 unfortunately even in a non cedh environment power creep has been an issue.

[@benfriedman3662]

Pauper

[@KingCreepa]

non degenerate magic is a myth and can only be played in casual everything that is powerful is degenerate.

[@jtyree0226]

@Joe Leon middle school format is pretty sweet too

[@cooke828]

From what I can tell, WotS no longer designs cards. They design decks.

[@cooke828]

@Dude These designers are like the kids who got mad because you were playing with a toy wrong.

[@catoticneutral]

WotS?

[@quanwashington1115]

@@catoticneutral wizards of the shits

[@dom19945]

You know it's bad when War of the Spark feels like the good ol' days.

[@cavemantero]

War of the Spark is still broken. They just threw buckets of lighter onto a campfire.

[@darklaw7635]

Teferi and narset are the only cards from war that are being used. Just like they were used in esper control. And people loved that deck more than anyrhimg. Double standards

[@unbanrofellos5786]

@@darklaw7635 i sorta see your point there, but i still personally hate the set. Its just too much in the wrong areas and im so over superfriends

[@Rolfhn]

The old Ravnica was the last set I truly enjoyed.

[@stayslapped1568]

Nissa is good too

[@Hero-er9oj]

WoTCs new business model. Buy standard cards or you cant compete in eternal formats 🤔

[@darklaw7635]

Huh... People complain that standard don't bring support to eternal formats... So what do you want

[@Hero-er9oj]

@@darklaw7635 no one is making that complaint and if they are it's been invalid for a while. Used to be only a few standard cards jumped formats, now pioneer and modern are full of cards printed in the last year. The power creep has been ridiculous.

[@darklaw7635]

@@Hero-er9oj what!?! Even youtubers ask for standard set to bring at least 1 card for their modern, legacy, etc format. It's common among stores too... The reality is that power of the cards are too good and I get that.. There is always a card too good.. It's been going on since the beginning of mtg

[@Hero-er9oj]

@@darklaw7635 not bringing support to eternal formats and asking for one new card are not the same thing

[@darklaw7635]

@@Hero-er9oj of course not. But in this case it is..... Companion support all formats, people would rage if it only supported standard

[@Chapterhouse86]

I just came back to MTGO after a loooong break, maybe almost 2 years? I start playing again and am up against nothing but Uros and Kroxas "escaping," and decks using these new companions. Now both of these are extremely busted, but imo the escape shit is worse. You can never get rid of them without dedicated graveyard hate. Idk, companions are fucked too. If I'm not playing a deck with a companion in Modern, I'm just straight up behind. The opponent gets a free extra card in their hand all game. What the fuck were wotc thinking? I predicted things would get worse after Kaladesh, looks like I was right.

[@aklepatzky]

@Proton commander...lol

[@arizonaaquarius8398]

@Proton The thing about commander is there no pressure towards winning. It's meant to be fun. Losing sucks, but at least in commander there is the social aspect. I cannot tell if Rogue is frustrated because he wants to play more 'interactive' decks, or because he wants to play those decks and WIN. I play whatever deck I want on Arena, but I do not expect to win when I make my homebrew.

[@darklaw7635]

Flashback was worst. Renegerarionnwas worst. And people loved those. How can you hate escape

[@goransekulic3671]

Ixalan was a blast! Nothing really overpowered, a lot of very thematic cards...yeah, a set like it should be! Needless to say, it's my favorite set in a LONG time!

[@goransekulic3671]

@Proton What I love the most about Ixalan is the atmosphere. Where Amonkhet, Innistrad et al were literal /wrist, Ixalan was literally some fun nonsense. ...oy, where you goin with that grog? Things like that.

[@benyseus6325]

Our biggest fear is materializing: MAGIC IS TURNING INTO YUGIOH

[@cavemantero]

HAS. IT HAS turned into Yugioh.

[@darklaw7635]

It's far from it lol. Clearly you haven't played yugioh

[@charlieparker4435]

@@darklaw7635 I played yugioh for years and left it to play mtg. It feels like I jumped from one broken game to another.

[@darklaw7635]

@@charlieparker4435 let's be real, mtg isn't as broken as yugioh..... I prefer a format of yorion control and jeskai lukka than a solitaire game like yugioh. People who say that mtg is solitaire needs to get real

[@nomative8915]

@@darklaw7635 It isn't yugioh.. yet. I think we're heading in this direction if wotc doesn't let up.

[@MagicTaco27]

It seems like the only “fair” magic anymore is cube

[@chaseblauvelt7008]

Limited is off and on still

[@moxliquid9821]

Pauper is hella good (mtgo not mtga)

[@jaygiemtg7511]

@@moxliquid9821 I feel like a lot of that comes from how much more affordable it is compared to everything. I really enjoy Pauper, but the meta can be really stagnant sometimes.

[@moxliquid9821]

Jaygie i think once you accept that you don’t get real playables every standard set it’s really not bad. It is what it is and you learn to love the format as one that doesn’t constantly flip around with new prints (MH being the exception).And tbh there’s a silent but real renaissance going on rn with deck building, and I’m not just referring to the cycling storm deck, there are some really cool new decks thanks to of one mind like a jeskai (mainly WR) affinity and a UW delver deck. It’s subtle new decks like this that make me love this format, and nothing is unbeatable except maybe tron and uw flicker if your deck fails to draw correctly and win early, those decks are just unbeatable at a certain point. Otherwise i think it’s pretty Rock Paper Scissors and I think I like it that way, but who knows. Maybe if pauper kept changing I’d like it, but i have modern for that you know? Not everything needs to be shaken up constantly and I’m learning to accept that

[@jonathanlinderer7271]

@@chaseblauvelt7008 more so draft than cube though. Cube has a litany of answers for many different strategies, where as some standard sets just don't. For instance, in Throne of Eldraine draft, if you pulled an Oko or Garruk, you would win pretty much every game you drew them. I believe the only direct answer to Planeswalkers in that set was Murderous Rider, which was a rare.

[@Luckingsworth]

WoTC is trying to curate MtG too much. MtG is at it's best when the initial format is completely open, and players slowly figure out the format until by its end it has solved right near the end of its life cycle. With such streamlined sets with clear premade decks built in, the format gets solved instantly and is stale for months.

[@passedjudgements4729]

Jon M it's like Konami and printing entire decks for you by printed an entire archetype and then you run playsets of the new archetype and BAM. Full deck premade for you

[@neil2451]

100% agree with this sentiment, this is the same reason commander sucks now because every good commander is from a commander set and all the good staples are solved and show up in every deck... When I started playing commander there was no "commander decks" and the commanders were just random legendaries that would have really cool incidental synergies that you could sometimes build around. Now you have commanders that you read one time and you can have a complete idea of what deck WotC wants it to fit into and what cards work well with it... The cards do exactly what they are supposed to and they do it very well, and they do nothing more. They don't even print cards with flexibility anymore like discard cards that can target yourself because it requires more clicks on arena. Everything targets opponent or creature opponent controls, there are literally less options for every play and the overall complexity of the game is kneecapped in favor of lower barrier to entry and streamlined pre-prepared strategies.

[@firekram]

@@passedjudgements4729 There is a bit more to Yugioh deck building than running the newest cards. Archetypes are like your engine, but you still get the build the car around it. Your choice of removal, extenders and extra deck cards can really make a difference. Magic deck's aren't this flexible. If you print the perfect engine, people already know what the manabase and removal should be.

[@Zoey587]

@@firekram exactly. Look at the most recent deck, Adamancipator. It started off as a pure deck and now it runs multiple engines that relate to rock in some way.

[@norwegianblue2017]

There is no more "slowly figuring out" in the game. With so many leaks and the entire WORLD optimizing the new set pre-release, it is a done deal by release date. Building a winning original deck is almost impossible. How can you compete against decks built and play-tested in thousands of games by the internet? Deck building is almost a useless skill now. Just copy the most optimized deck instead and change that weekly to whatever new deck has popped up the second someone comes up with an answer to the previous winning deck.

[@shreder89]

you are not alone bro. After 5 years of playing and really enjoying magic, i'm seriously considering selling my collection (not now ofc). To me what made it not appealing any more is that the "gotcha" factor is everywhere, even somewhat in legacy now. The game has less and less to do with skills, reads and habilities and more to do with variance and being able to make your "punch out" card stick. The problem is that those cards are coming sooner and sooner, in every format. Turn 3 or turn 2 in some cases. Oh you play instants and counterspells? well better have an answer with 2 mana on the draw against my turn 3 teferi on the play, oh you dont? well i guess you lose then. Yeah, not fun anymore. I'm much better off tossing coins and not spending hundreds of dollars to do so with fancy cards. It used to be that modern was a turn 4 format in which you where rewarded for playing the same strategy, because skills mattered. I dont feel that this is the case any more, the format is horrible right now. Same goes for standard ofc, and also somewhat for legacy. I always enjoyed pauper, but i feel that the format became stagnated, with the same decks and strategies that work, and if you play some tier 2 or tier 3 deck, you are starting on a huge disadvantage, it's meta needs to be renewed. Lastly, the power creep is reaching stupid levels. Look at cards like fervent champion. For one mana you get 3 habilities, that is insane! questing beast has 7 habilities, freaking 7! also cards like stonecoil serpent completely break the color pie rules, reach and trample and protection for a colorless creature? it's not fun anymore, it's just not fun.

[@malmasterson3890]

This is why I play pauper & commander, but casual commander is slowly turning into early cEDH & cEDH is getting faster and faster, but pauper is still a lot of fun.

[@michaelhawkins2993]

I think planeswalkers are really messing things up too. They use and produce their own resources separate from the core principle of the game. They should at least use mana.

[@ChunkyTheClown]

This is the exact reason I stopped playing Yu-Gi-Oh and it pains me to see it happening in magic too. It’s obviously nowhere near as bad in magic, but it’s still turning into a very serious issue.

[@moxliquid9821]

Pauper (actual pauper not mtga) is the only format I play regularly since ravnica allegiance for this very reason.

[@cavemantero]

Exactly. The game has turned into Yugioh. Yugioh is the epitome of the 'GOTCHA' factor. The entire TV show was predicated on it.

[@worldmedic3187]

Honestly I think they should reprint bloodmoon. Everyone is so greedy in pioneer with lands because there is no control. These ramp decks will be forced to play more fairly.

[@priinceoftiime]

I'm glad that blood sun is legal in pioneer because you can screw with people who use utility lands

[@dingdongs5208]

That'll be against their FIRE acronym, fun inviting replayable and enjoyable, which is why white has lost its land destruction part of its identity. Those idiots say such effects deter new players if it happens to them once

[@darklaw7635]

Ramp has always been a green mechanic, this should not be removed. Just like haste has been red. If you are soo afraid about ramp decks, play countermagic

[@curtisedmonds7678]

@@darklaw7635 "Just play countermagic" is incredibly ignorant of the problems with magic currently. When nearly every deck is a ramp deck, "just play countermagic" doesn't work to fix anything, because it still leaves SO many cards and archetypes borderline unplayable.

[@darklaw7635]

@@curtisedmonds7678 that's the problem, it screws with what people like. There is a solution to every card out there but like always, you want the easy way. The real issue is to satisfy everyone's tastes, people that play ramp don't want any other cards banned just like you want them to pay the price so your deck can compete. Banning cards have become a whim. It doesn't solve anything, just please whiners. The issue exist because ya'll jank decks don't compete but if these cards did fit in your preferences, then it would be OK. Wotc should not award that kind of behavior.

[@ThirdRateDuelist]

While I appreciate new design space, it really does feel that in the recent sets the Play Design team doesn't have enough experience playing the actual game to recognize grotesque errors. "Oko felt good making my artifacts 3/3s!" Sigh

[@ThirdRateDuelist]

Update: Playtest deserves some credit after reading this article magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/topical-blend-did-you-hear-one-about-2015-12-07-0

[@TeensierPython]

I quit playing back in mirage and started again when dominaria(?) came out. I only play super casual commander and only with people who aren’t d-bags.

[@MasterDoctorBenji]

It feels like the direction Yugioh went in. Where every deck went to One turn kills and combo, combo, combo, extend, chain, summon, extend, chain, pass, hand trap. As well all the cards are over developed wall of text and all. Yugioh is so fast traps are irrelevant, a third of the cards are irrelevant. Magic is no longer a pauper, peasant game. It's all mythics and over developed nonsense

[@georgehamilton1290]

Benjamin Saunders feel you there brother. Left yugioh for magic way back and now the games are a lot more similar than they used to be

[@MasterDoctorBenji]

@@georgehamilton1290 moving to eternal, pray it doesn't go down the same path

[@darklaw7635]

This is true but there isn't one turn kills. Mtg is pay to win. But it's always been like this isn't it? And there always has been a top tier budget deck. There is one now...the issue here is that you don't like it and of course... Your tastes are more important that anything....

[@MasterDoctorBenji]

@@darklaw7635 No, the issue is the scale is tipped more to the top. If you aren't paying to win you can't compete. On arena I played janky decks before. Now I literally can't. I have lost 9/10 matches against companions and tier decks. Versus before Ikoria I was fifty-fifty against tier decks like fires and U/W Control. The same thing happened to Modern, it is now seeping into pioneer. It also hasn't always been this way, not even a little look back at the long history of proplay. I recommend the MtG rewind of one of the first tournaments, fascinating. In the three main TCG's the powercreep is gaining speed, the game is speeding up, the interaction is going down. I heard from PK once build your deck for fun and play to win, it was in reference to commander but these environments breed competitive mind sets when deck building. You literally have to build to have a companion.

[@Tamarocker88]

That's been my sentiment as well, especially with the companions. It reminded me of all the extra-deck shenanigans that were going on in YuGiOh. Stopped playing around a year ago when Link summoning combos turned the game into solitaire, forcing every deck to run numerous hand traps and pray that their opening hand had all the right answers to stop their opponent from going off. No fun, all just a rapid arms race to combo off by turn 2.

[@andybeyer2230]

Haste & Flash: You must play instant-speed answers. Teferi: That's not allowed. Mana Doublers & Crazy Turn-4 Combos: You must play countermagic. Teferi: LOL

[@darklaw7635]

Countermagic is toxic. I do agree with instant speed removal

[@andybeyer2230]

@@darklaw7635 A lot of players agree with you about countermagic, but I think we have to recognize that there are WAY more toxic things happening in the game right now: Agent, Fires, etc. These crazy threats can ONLY be effectively answered by playing countermagic, and Teferi neutering the only viable answer makes for a hugely unhealthy format. Say what you will about counters, but at least people can play around them with enough skill and patience. But there's no way to play around Agent or Fires or even Gyruda. Once those cards hit the board, the damage is done. Even an instant-speed Heartless Act type of removal is too slow. I think the biggest problem is the trend towards cards with massively powerful ETB effects. Countermagic is the only thing that works against those, and people don't like countermagic. Nobody's happy.

[@darklaw7635]

@@andybeyer2230 taking control of this and doubling mana has always been hard to counter, why complain about it now? It's not like agents and fires are the only cards that have been capable of that through the history of standard. Sure it's broken, but it will be powercreeped like nissa and risen reef has been. ETB triggers been going on since the beginning of magic. Banning stuff has become a whim which shouldn't be. All these scenarios are specific different from oko/once o upon a time shifted games on their own

[@andybeyer2230]

@@darklaw7635 The issue is how common these powerful effects have become. Back in the day ETB value still existed, and was massively powerful, but also rare. Caw-Blade for example only really had two cards that fit this description, Stoneforge Mystic and Squadron Hawk. One of those was banned and the deck was STILL dominant. These days, being as powerful as Squadron Hawk is the baseline measure of whether a card is playable. Instead of one playset, damn near EVERY card in every deck is a 2-for-1. Doom Blade style removal is no longer worth running, which just leaves countermagic. Teferi ruins that, so it's basically not worthwhile to run answers at all. If you want to win, just play something more broken than the other guy. There's no back and forth anymore, just people playing threats.

[@darklaw7635]

@@andybeyer2230 but going back to what mtg was is not going to be the answer... Mtg as a game should be developing and part of it is evolving.. People just get bored of the same stuff all the time so just like players got sick of squadron hawk, then are sick of teferi and will be sick of cards from years to come. This is normal reaction and cannot be fixed. It Wil always be like this, people whining of how powerful cards are and then complain that there isn't enough support for their own jank decks. Sure there are cards that are powerful but that's its how it's mean to be. People are just bored and it's time to change. That's all about, complaining about card design is just a blanket to cover the real reason

[@matt9591]

I am extremely worried about the contents of commander legends. Please dont just print 60 Chulane-ish legendaries

[@Sparta2388]

Don't forget the inevitable Modern Horizons 2! They don't need to push Standard (and other formats) to sell packs. If they would just reprint in demand cards, the packs would sell themselves. I was totally fine with maybe only one or two cards from a new set seeing eternal play. Now we need to ban cards in eternal formats because they're too good, and they're meant to be designed for Standard. Whaaaaaaat??

[@matt9591]

@@Sparta2388 one day they will learn hopefully

[@Chris-ht5ng]

Ehh. Chulane is kinda pants. Nobody actually really plays it. It's so so easy to shut down

[@matt9591]

@@Chris-ht5ng Even if no one plays it, the card is boring and generically very strong and very vanilla, a shit design space

[@nathantoothaker3096]

I'll be honest, I'm not entirely in agreement with you, but I've made your arguments before. To be fair, standard hasn't had a true midrange in meta since tarkir block.

[@jaygiemtg7511]

I feel like Siege Rhino killed midrange in the eyes of WotC. Maybe just stop printing grossly undercosted threats alongside (comparatively)grossly inefficient answers and we wouldn't have this problem.

[@darklaw7635]

What makes a midrange deck?

[@jaygiemtg7511]

@@darklaw7635 Midrange is basically just a pile of good cards that can pivot from the aggro role to the control role depending on the matchup.

[@ebbandfloatzel]

@@jaygiemtg7511 I've never actually thought of it that way. I always described it as a creature deck that pressures the mid-game with value creatures.

[@jaygiemtg7511]

@@ebbandfloatzel I guess I mean 'control' pretty loosely. It's doesn't play board wipes at all really and, especially in recent times, much more aggro-slanted. When Midrange assumes the control role in a matchup, it's almost always against a faster aggro deck since midrange decks are usually packing way more single target removal than aggro is, and it's threats can usually wall creature-based aggro decks. Creatures like Tarmogoyf and Grim Flayer are almost always gonna be bigger than your opponents Goblin Guides and such.

[@SamSarracino]

Personally, I would never dedicate my time to standard. Not just current standard, but for few years now. WOTC can destroy that shitty format as much as it wants for what I care. However, what pisses me off is terrible design screwing modern and legacy. I don't think banning Lurrus would be enough. Ban the Fkn companion mechanic altogether from modern and legacy!

[@BW-CZ]

Dominaria to Guilds of Ravnica (and I guess Ravnica Allegiance too) standard was actually highly enjoyable and is regarded as one of the best standard environments we've had for a long time. Sure, there was Teferi, but otherwise it was pretty cool. Crazy how far have we gone in a span of one year.

[@clocktowers1]

They won't becauae pushed cards and archetypes sell packs bro

[@nickniehaus1763]

I would like to see companion only allowed for one season tbh. It only allows 15 decks in standard, if you want to win at all. That doesn’t even mean win a lot.

[@benjaminkaye5119]

Six minutes in , and I am already agreeing with you as you are speaking my mind, word for word. And you are correct , the problem is creeping into commander.

[@dimanarinull9122]

wilderness reclamation needed to be Legendary, you can't stack it if it's Legendary... oh, wait... you have spark double... you forgot Thassa being an indestructible enchantment bouncing your Agent/Gayruda for FREE every single turn than tapping whatever you want for a little mana, Agent of stealing your lands on turn 3, Cavalcade of Fking Calamity doubling your 1/1s damage or X6 it with Thorban, Risen Rief because drawing your entire deck is not enough you also need a Jace in play, Garruk if you forgot how broken this was, Witch's Oven because sacrificing creatures for free, at instant speed, every turn is too much, Dream Trawler because drawing cards for free is not enough for this card you also need to gain life, deal damage have combat evasion and have togglable hexproof on ability with no mana cost, and half the cards from Simic Flash because fk Simic Flash...

[@matthewarnold4557]

Your right on all fronts except Garrick, he's pretty fair for a six Mana Walker

[@dimanarinull9122]

​@@matthewarnold4557 this card is fair in eternal formats, in standard he is only "pretty fair" when taking in context the current power level that is way too high. you cannot defeat him with creatures(unless you have some evasion on them and you need it "yesterday"). he defends himself a bit too well and with the card pool of standard now there is simply too much ramp. he comes out on turn 4 and you play mono-white or something and you didn't draw out this 4th land, you better wish you had played something with flying and trample that is big because you are not going to swing on the ground beyond those wolves and he definitely has a Grazer to stop your 1/2 or 1/1 flying bird. his ult should've cost at least 2 more loyalty before as proliferate is legal and sacrificing crap is a (very popular) thing. and I said turn 4 to be generous - I've seen more than a few times it was done by turn 3.

[@LegendLeaguer]

Agent of Treachery is a perfectly balanced card with Veil of Summer in standard

[@dimanarinull9122]

@@LegendLeaguer when I started reading I was hoping for the spiffing brit reference... Veil of summer don't help if I play mono black, does it now? You basically say that the game devolved into "play simic or bust".

[@LegendLeaguer]

@@dimanarinull9122 it might surprise you to realize that only playing a single color in a game with 5 comes with advantages and disadvantages, and you have to weight both of those to see if you want to continue doing that

[@leifruneborn5485]

Release the 5/5 Haste, Hexproof, Doublestrike, Trample, Lifelink, Flying Knight that has "When this creature dies it does damage equal to its power to any target." for One Red! It's balanced because blue can Sometimes cancel a spell!

[@darklaw7635]

You want an answer to teferi? Make more hexproof creatures. It'd called powercreep

[@darklaw7635]

@Lamp Boi teferi is fine. Just deal with it or play another game

[@unbanrofellos5786]

@@darklaw7635 "teferi is fine" Ahh, okay. I guess he's fine now

[@testsignupagain7449]

is this a salty blue player? Who gets aether gust while the oppressed RG guy gets his protection banned? nice XD XD

[@WGG-01]

You should try some pauper, nowadays it is a lot more fair and a decent chunk of variety. Obviously some really all in combo decks but they kinda just get shut down completely by sideboard staples like graveyard hate or disruption.

[@moxliquid9821]

W G nothing in pauper is unbeatable/unsideable except flicker/tron late game rn. It’s pretty Rock Paper Scissors meta.

[@NathanJackLouttit]

Loooove pauper cannot get enough

[@bowense7en]

I started playing before 6th ed. until lorwyn and recently came back to magic in the war-spark/eldraine era - and I feel the same way almost identically as you and thought it was just a biased persective. There's such an insane degree of power inflation at every point in the curve that don't just win the game on their own - we have come to expect value even when answered. My subconcious feeling upon returning was the need for higher life total, or some such major game change. I get a kick out of cards like questing beast, however, the fundamental design is broken when that doesn't see standard play - In my day, we could play Ravenous Baloth in Extended (modern?) and thats draft chaff these days. I find the only way to take a competitive mindset seriously to MTG is Limited (draft), and to some extent that was something I decided in Mirrodin and encourage everyone just move on with me cus the draft waters be warm! (minus companion, unless i have em!)

[@kyuugetsuki]

Agreed! As a mtg player who has played since damn near the beginning, I’m getting really tired of wotc dishing out ready made decks and themes that a blind man could see! I enjoy making wacky non-meta decks and get tired of playing the same meta net decks over and over! It gets old real fast! How many times do I have to see all planeswalker decks that have answers to every problem?

[@nicolasquijano5471]

Except from commander, every single format is competitive and no one really cares about the fun of the others, met decking is old as the internet itself, wacky decks don’t usually work in tournaments because they are that, wacky decks, if you wanna play for fun or casual, play kitchen table with friends or try commander but don’t force Wizards to cap the power cript so every crazy idea is viable, if you can play everything and win, what’s the point?

[@Tamarocker88]

Agreed. There used to be someone in my playgroup who ran every degenerate deck and combo, sparing nothing to win. No fun for anyone else, no one else got to play their decks. I'm talking ridiculously fast looping combos with Feather, board lockdowns with Breya, mycosinth lattice, karn, blightsteel colossus and darksteel forge, ridiculous infect decks with Vorinclex and other groanworthy cards.... If they were still in the playgroup, they would absolutely be running whatever netdeck companion BS of the week they came across. I try to build from the philosophy of making use of cards that intrigue me. I don't buy the commander decks, even though there are always pushed cards inside. I try to find commanders that interest me and give me a deckbuilding challenge. I deliberately set limitations when deckbuilding to have a challenge. When I find a commander, I load up the Gatherer and start painstakingly searching for keywords that might combo well. For example, Lurrus was revealed and I loved the card for the art and color identity. I've always wanted to build an Orzhov deck but didn't want to build the tried and true Teysa aristocrat deck. I choose to use Lurrus as a commander despite the fact that he pales in comparison as an Orzhov sacrifice commander compared to the others that are available. He'd be far more powerful as a companion, obviously. Instead of doing the tired old hate-bear filled death and taxes, I'm going with a theme of Cat & Mouse. various cat cards, the miser rats plus the piper, some discard value engines, and then a variety of sacrifice related cards. All put into a blender with some pet cards thrown in for fun. It's not the most potent deck and it doesn't need to be. It will probably be a 6/10 when all is said and done but it'll be a blast when I happen to pull off a win.

[@nho2990]

Nice profil photo !!

[@kyuugetsuki]

@@nho2990 Thank you!

[@oneinfinity]

Play one of the Highlander variants. Easily the most interactive and least linear formats at this point. And the best thing: no companions!

[@dingdongs5208]

Auslander has companions allowed in the board, but the point system has already set off to keep them in check, lutri might even go up to 3 or 4 points, the same amount of points assigned to the power 9 cards. I've just been playing pre war of the spark legacy and auslander with my friends over webcam as all our local game stores are shut

[@tcwaterboy3306]

Commander has companions lol

[@oneinfinity]

@@tcwaterboy3306 Commander is not a Highlander variant except in name only maybe. They are both Singleton formats, other than that they have nothing in common.

[@Meeeeeeeeeeees]

What are your thoughts on Pauper..? For me it's the most enjoyable format right now, not as degenerate as all the other formats, not too much product to focus on - just a handful of useful additions each set, very affordable and very interactive.

[@soren1803]

Mees Broersen pauper is so sick. Biggest perk is you don’t have the huge rift between tier 1 and 2. I’ve done pretty well with my silly squadron hawk, battalion foot soldier, legion conquistador deck

[@syjohnston6603]

I don't understand how all these insanely powerful cards can be printed and companion can be a thing, but Thoughtseize is too powerful.

[@fatrat600284]

@agnat86 Net decking isn't a problem, only elitists think otherwise. No ones going to give you brownie points because you 'make your own decks.' Plus when learning a deck a good place to start is taking an existing list and changing it depending on preference.

[@smegmalasagna]

agnat86 Idk man you seem like the saltiest person here. There is nothing wrong with netdecking. Some people just like to play with the biggest power burst there is. It’s not their fault for abusing those cards, it’s the fault of WOTC for printing those in the first place.

[@smegmalasagna]

agnat86 agnat86 I never ignored those arguments, I simply don’t agree with them. While making original decks is a lot of fun, if you lose a lot to the likes of embercleave your only option is to join the absurd powerlevel and build/copy a digenerate archetype yourself. It can also easily turn out that you are building an embercleave deck and you play against someone or find someone on the internet that inspires you to change it up a little. When I saw Andrea Menguchi’s mono red list for standard I inmedietly thought that it was the perfect list and copied it. Not because I can’t think of anything myself (I hardly ever netdeck and always create my own shit) but because I would have created the exact same list myself or opened my eyes. Just like Fatrat said, copying an existing list is a good way to learn why those cards belong in there. And you can indeed also slowly change it up yourself to what feels better. That is how real life works as well. Copying is a natural thing. Though of course some people don’t bother to brew something themselves, if they still find fun in the game then they are doing it right.

[@fatrat600284]

@agnat86 Lol, i don't even play magic, have't for over two years and even then i only played for a few months with friends. I have no idea what any of those decks are. So nice jumping to conclusions bud. On top of that all of the two decks i have i made myself out of whatever i have in my card binder, i've never actually netdecked anything in magic, so, again, nice try bud. (Dumbass neckbeards i swear.)

[@jaygiemtg7511]

@agnat86 The main issue is that the Standard card pool is small enough that it's ALWAYS going to warp and revolve around the 4-6 most powerful cards. It's why Siege Rhino was such a problem back in Khans of Tarkir. Additionally, WotC needs to start printing better answers for their obviously pushed cards so that people CAN actually interact.

[@Shannon_Vlogs]

Thank you for voicing your perspective on this. Playing the same decks on Arena over & over is not my jam

[@nickniehaus1763]

I recently came back a week and a half ago and I literally see bant ramp and jeskai fires most of the time

[@Nadeldrucker]

Major tinfoil hat moment here. The strategy seems to be: - create inventive to play Limited by balancing the sets only against themselves -> sell current product for Draft/Sealed. - increase the power level of new sets to motivate sales of new product for Standard. Be sure to use different ways to achieve this (obfuscation). - make formats like Legacy less appealing by poisoning the card pool with powerful cards which will eventually filter into its meta over sufficient # of sets. This either drives players into buying new product or you can sell them collections of sought-after cards. Be sure to almost price match the secondary market. I'm not the most experienced player and I'm sure this has already been said, and better, by others. I started back in 1995 or so, paused in 98/99, came back to it only in 2018, and I was astonished by the power differential. Sure, my write-up may sound like a conspiracy theory. But from a business perspective it only makes sense, especially if you have your quarterly goals to meet. There's only so many ways you can modify existing concepts, cards and abilities before you have to step on the gas pedal. Power creep is only logical. It's just the pace of it in recent sets which makes me scratch my head. I'm also pretty sure that the popularity of MTGA has a lot to do with it. Ikoria feels more swingy than all of the newer sets I saw. Cycling and mutate, coupled with very strong removal all facilitate huge blowout moments. In short, it feels flashier, more entertaining to watch. So it makes for great streaming, which in turn has the potential to pull in new customers.

[@clayxros576]

This is pretty common, to the point that it isn't even tinfoil hat and moreso proven fact. And it derives from the marketing department calling the shots rather than the design and balance teams. Speaking from firsthand experience with Force of Will, the game's community manager and president were in a constant struggle with marketing to keep the game balanced and fun for all, but broken unfun cards still managed to get through since the manager and prez were busy with their own jobs. Recently the president stepped down to work on other projects, and the marketing team's manager was put in charge. The community manager was instantly stonewalled, and the power level spiked into unreasonable territory. Growth is all well and good, but the entire philosephy with marketing in general nowadays is constant growth, which only ever ends in collapse. MTG has managed to avoid this longer than most TCGs due to it being arguably the first big one, but i think it is clear that the cracks are starting to show.

[@Loren_Law]

Funny thing is they goofed up limited too with the cycling deck being too easy to draft and too hard nearly impossible to beat.

[@OsvaldoChannel1]

Not tinfoil, it's a proven fact. Look at how YuGiOh handles their marketing with premade archetypes and banlists, they are around 60% focused to push sales (the other 40% is 1/2 preventing abuse with other cards and 1/2 banning actual problem cards like most of the older sets)

[@clayxros576]

@@OsvaldoChannel1 Did somebody say Firewall Dragon?

[@Redragonclaws]

Hydroid Krasis is basically fine as long as Nissa isn’t supercharging him. I would ban Agent, Winota, Nissa, Teferi, Cauldron Familiar. Then errata companion and we’re fine.

[@clrl936]

Add Fires of invention and wilderness reclamation

[@amc6169]

Nyxbloom ancient as well. I think companions just need to not exist as companions. They seem slightly pushed as normal creatures but not insane.

[@wilagaton9627]

Curious, how would you errata companions?

[@amc6169]

@@wilagaton9627 Just get rid of companion. They seem fine as just creatures. What they should have done instead is given them some serious downside as none of them have a downside. Maybe when Obosh hits the battlefield you sac 2 permanents? companions need downside to counteract their consistency.

[@goliathsteinbeisser3547]

"Discard and counter spells are 'unfun', so instead, please watch me flicker my stuff for 35 minutes straight." - R&D Magic does feel a lot less elegant than it used to. I find that non-interactive strategies that have emerged over the last 10 years are even more annoying than the original offenders because instead of losing (or winning) to discard and mana denial within 5 minutes, I have to watch you play solitaire. I am happy that WotC wishes to support EDH, but I also feel the R&D definition of 'fun' is off. They printed so many annoying legends I wish they would ignore EDH.

[@josephcourtright8071]

So I think EDH is a non-interactive format. If you are going to win normally its hard to deal 120 damage to three players with creatures. Its also hard to use control/removal strategies because you need to control 3 players. A good commander deck plays its cards, gets its combo pieces and does very little with the other players. Unfortunately WOTC started to design with that format in mind.

[@vimi7653]

plus dont you love how 1 card (teferi) just completely destroys u/g flash

[@TraucerDaUrbania]

Shark Typhoon solves that problem now, but for the last few months it was dead in the water yeah

[@golDroger88]

It destroys any form of interactive magic, turning the game into fucking pokemon.

[@RiseInAfterlife]

@Jeff L Even worse: One sided Hearthstone for you, they however play magic + with every sorcery of them having flash.

[@clocktowers1]

@@golDroger88 Here's a solution. Don't be crap player and let it hit the table.

[@golDroger88]

@@clocktowers1 So decks without discard and counters aren't allowed to exist in the meta and you're never allowed to tap out before their 3rd turn? No, fuck bad designed cards like Teferi.

[@SomewhereInMiddleEarth]

Cube and Pauper man. Especially Pauper. These two are the best formats!

[@sjdhrjrjejdhdhsh]

Once they realize that a considerable group has migrated to it, they'll ruin it trying to popularize and monetize it.

[@45lxudmouth27]

Pauper isn't it like a few decks that are tier1? Isn't all the same decks? Do u think it requires more thinking or skills? Only played pauper once.

[@SomewhereInMiddleEarth]

@@45lxudmouth27 well the metagame in pauper has changed over the years, like in every format. there are many tier 1 decks out there like mono black, burn, kulthoda boros, tron, elves, all good options. online you may see the same decks but actually people like brewing. you may see different decks and ideas at your LGS, or even online for that matter. Wizards almost destroyed the format with the printing of Arcum's Astrolabe, but thank god it is banned. I believe that the format requires skill to play, as you dont have that super expensive mythic bomb that wins the game when you cast it. the games might take some time to finish, but there are back and forths and have interesting gameplay.

[@Cinomod6066]

@@45lxudmouth27 pauper has its tier1 meta game like any other eternal format sure but it is a great place to brew decks that still can compete into pauper while having t1 decks they dont tend to just absolutely destroy the competition either. (My fave deck tho is mono black control fun stuff just making people draw the same cards over n over again lol)

[@moxliquid9821]

Can confirm pauper is best one for one play (not mtga pauper)

[@Open_Eyes_Open_Heart]

I feel that since players were so vigilant about reserved list, wizards just said okay we'll power creep up and your reserved list cards will be less playable and more collectable. They win no matter what. Profit margins have to be so huge right now wizards could care less about printing great reprints or reserve list cards. I feel that the static walkers was the beginning of the warping of the normal game of Mtg.

[@W4llh4k]

yes, teferi is the main offender, narset is no longer that present, but guess who is , tef and nissa, both are way too good even for mythic rares, don't know if WOTC fired ppl or just have thinned into to much formats the Play design team, or if the bosses are sticking their head too much into the R&D office, as many of this cards seem undestested, but also cashgrabby

[@TheSpiritombsableye]

@@W4llh4k, a card can't be too good for mythic rarity. As cards have to be accessible no matter the rarity. So, the cards are just too good.

[@blaze556922]

Power creep is just a byproduct of the game. It doesn't mean they are intentionally trying to make reserve list cards less playable.

[@W4llh4k]

@@TheSpiritombsableye What I mean is that despite accesibility they are too powerful even compared with regular mythic slot PW, see the nissa from kaladesh, any nissa that animates lands, simplty put it that WAR nissa is fool proof

[@siege_sensei]

I've felt the same way. I didn't start feeling happy again until I left my mtg groups.

[@jimmyc2358]

I feel like this standard is still evolving, which surely wasn’t the case for theros or eldraine this far in. I think there are sleeper cards that can become the future and are fun to try right now. Titan’s nest will most likely become the new fires of invention when Teferi rotates, so long as they don’t give him the same static ability in 2021. Teferi enables fires because it forces the drawback of fires onto your opponents. As per usual, they don’t test across sets to balance anything, that is the glaring issue. Aetherworks marvel was busted because it cast spells rather than cheated out permanents. The eldrazi were balanced by having cast triggers make them OP, but having high costs to balance that out. Marvel ignored that and broke standard. The design teams obviously don’t consult with each other enough, it is incredibly obvious. Almost all cards are OP by 1 word. Nissa giving vigilance to the land she animates, Teferi nor requiring a bounce target to draw a card, once upon a time being able to find a land, oko having a plus sign on his transform ability. Little changes would balance these all and it’s what the number 1 competitor (hearthstone) fixes all the time. Making the best ramp cards a color pair rather than mono green is a bad idea. The best ramp cards in each standard set since ravnica allegiance are blue green. You basically should play both of those colors if you want to ramp and that seriously hampers deck building. It also makes agent of treachery feel like and eldrazi with Atherworks marvel since it is in one of those colors. Companion seems like a way to revitalize magic better than pioneer did. Forcing players to sculpt decks for an added specific card makes deck construction more interesting and could really be a good idea to keep expanding on. Color hosers aren’t what need to exist so much as mechanic answers being in every color. They printed 1 white creature that says opponents can’t cast their companions. What they need to do is print an anti companion card in every color. Give blue a normally expensive or very conditional counterspell that is free when cast to stop a card cast from exile. Make a black enchantment or sorcery that says opponents can no longer play cards from exile. Give red an instant or enchantment that forces companions to damage their controllers from exile. Give green an instant that puts spells on the stack from exile on the bottom of their opponents’ libraries.

[@nicolasquijano5471]

JimmyC23 i agree with you except in 2 things, one is that hearthstone is long dead and the only card game that is kind of making pressure to magic is legends of runaterra. The other thing is that is okay white is the only color who can stop companions, after all, it is the weaker color and people need a reason to at least play it

[@championofwits4621]

Companion currently is being played in most decks . Your anti companion cards simply prevent player from casting that card it doesn't remove the companion from the game or force opponent to discard card etc.

[@hugoguerreiro1078]

@@nicolasquijano5471 White has Teferi, ECD, Shatter, etc. Many of the most popular decks play white, and they're not even playing the creature that stops companions. White is a pretty strong color right now with some of the best removal options and synergies with other colors. And what the game needs right now aren't companion hosers, as those can also be dealt with by companion decks. What they need to do is to change the companions rules so that a player only draws 6 cards instead of 7 at the start of the game if they're playing a companion, so they don't start the game with a card advantage. The meta is already becoming stale and the expansion just came out, and making companions a choice rather than a big advantage would help shake it up a little bit. Some bans on cards like fires and some green card would also help but right now I'd say companions are the biggest problem.

[@nicolasquijano5471]

Hugo Guerreiro why people want to ban everything so badly? Mono white is not strong at all and it is only use as a supportive color (a really good one tbh) In the end I just see that maybe the meta is not figured out yet, humans is a tribe that has something to offer and drawing focus decks could work well too, I just want to see every good card ban, is is sad that every cool deck is ban because it is overplayed, they shouldn’t ban any cards in standard, magic is a degenerate game where you can do pretty powerful stuff I has been always like this, people ask for good cards when the meta does not have them because they claim is boring and when they have good cards they want them ban those cards...

[@hugoguerreiro1078]

@@nicolasquijano5471 people want bans because some cards are broken and limit the meta too much. Nobody likes to face the same 3-4 decks over and over again. If no cards got banned standard would just be field of the dead mirrors with some Oko in the mix. Even if you personally enjoy that you'd be playing standard alone, because pre bans standard when ELD came out was really garbage. And no mono colored decks are strong right now. Even red is struggling, so it's pretty silly to say white is weak based on that. And no, people aren't really asking for more powerful cards. Mark Rosewater had a poll on that recently and most people want the standard power level to go down, as it was never meant to be a powerful degenerate format. You can play with your degenerate cards in modern, legacy or vintage, no need to turn mtg standard into yugioh.

[@Goblin_War_Buggy]

I tried playing arena, and I felt like playing a gruul midrange deck that admittedly was not particularly fantastic but I really wanted to play cards that let me make interesting decisions like Skaargan Hellkite (do I use it as a Volcanic Dragon or do I need the removal and beefier body), and that worked for the couple months of Ravnica Allegiance format and I made it to low diamond rank and was pretty happy with myself. Then came War of the Spark. None of the cards were rotating, and the new Domri looked like the perfect addition to my deck so I decided "hey, why not try this out, maybe I can get a little higher this season" and I could not leave silver because of 3feri no matter how much I lowered my curve or tweaked my deck to deal with this one card. My entire deck folded to War of the Spark. I then proceeded to use draft exclusively until the linux build for arena stopped working and I really have not been hankering to play arena since.

[@nicholash.7656]

lol Yeah, as a modern burn player, I'm like, oh, i get a 3/2 lifelink muldrotha in my deck, so I can buy back any of my creatures, my fetches, and horizon lands. Also seal of fire.

[@jtyree0226]

You can’t get back lands with Lurrus. Since it says cast not play

[@nicholash.7656]

@@jtyree0226 ah, well, makes it a little better, but still busted

[@clocktowers1]

@@nicholash.7656 I don't think it's as busted in Modern as other formats. Very powerful and a shit mechanic? Yes. Busted in Modern? Not quite, but getting there.

[@williamsimkulet7832]

Rogue - some of your choices seem a bit off (Growth Spiral and, arguably, Nissa are fine, for example), but I think you under-estimate a few factors: 1) Design by Committee - Complexity Creep, Power Creep, "face card needs to sell the set", etc. all come from this source; and most of this could be caught by a simple editor who can look at something like Mutate and say ""No. Make this Bestow and the set another Theros set, and get your act together." 2) The lack of strict cycles. Quite frankly trying to balance out a cycle of cards at the same mana cost and related flavor produces excellent cycles where most of the cards are fair. By extension, it also rewards good design. Hydroid Krasis good design? Then do 9 more of them; XCD spells with cast triggers for each guild. Will all be good in standard? Probably not; but if you've done your jobs right most will be good somewhere. 3. Only 10% of the cards "count", with the rest being designed to fail. 4. No meaningful reprints. Listen; you know what a standard with Dark Confidant looks like, and it wasn't this dumb. So maybe if you need to sell the set, put Dark Confidant in it, and not Oko. 5. Sloppy checks. Theros was obscene in it's lack of answers for it's own format, but it lacked efficient or reasonable answers to the set's own mechanics - escape is fun and all, but you couldn't be bothered to put some green "recycle" cards in to prevent decking? Why is my white graveyard hate on a random 3/1 that has to die? Color-hosers have always been sloppy, unfun checks on formats, and Protection has always been a design mistake. But they're too lazy to balance such and such, so throw Veil of Summer out there. Teferi's a mistake. Oko's 2 or 3 mistakes. Companion is probably a giant mistake (and yes, if it was part of your opening hand, not exile nonsense, it wouldn't have been as bad). Agent of Treachery is a giant mistake as it feels bad when it's fair, and its obscene when it's not fair.

[@abolishshekeluse3782]

fires of invention was a mistake, nicol bolas the planeswalker was a mistake, uro was a mistake, basically anything with flash lately too tbh

[@williamsimkulet7832]

@@abolishshekeluse3782 1. Planeswalkers, in general, need to be monitored close. Bolas hasn't been so bad, but he's certainly not fun. WAR had solid limited answers to planeswalkers, but this hasn't transferred to standard. 2. Fires/Wilderness Reclamation are probably mistakes? I mean, I like Experimental Frenzy, so I can't say Fires was obviously unacceptable, but Reclamation is clearly poorly designed. 3. Re: Titans - I'd actually argue we should have tried for a cycle of these... though perhaps 2 cycles might make more sense. Their design is terrible; they should have had cycling (In fact, if they'd made Irorkia Return to Theros Pt 2, with Bestow and Cycling Titans, it would have been a lot more interesting). The problem is their sloppy design. 4. Flash? Nah. Nightpack Ambusher seems above curve, as with Spectral Sailor, but it's mostly fine. The new Irokia Great Shark seems obviously too good as well. UG Flash is a neat archetype; what you should be asking for is more efficient discard and/or uncounterable spells. With Thoughtseize in the format, it'd be a lot worse, for example. Honestly? Cavern of Souls, ideally at (R), in standard would really prevent the deck from being too good, as it couldn't just sit on counters all game. End of the day? I suspect most problems could be solved by more reprints, better (C)s and (U)s, and less stupidity at all stages of development. I mean some doofus had the bright idea to say "Let's print a strictly better Evolving Wilds, a card we reprint a dozen times every year that saw fringe constructed play in standard and commander." And during a standard with Ravnica duals no less!

[@collin7776]

Cube is the answer. Like you I got rid of my commander stuff, well unassembled my decks, I have a few modern/pioneer decks but strongly considering taking those apart as well.

[@Wolfgar-jx5kl]

Great video . Glad to see you posting a lot more again . Myself being pretty much a hardcore mono red player for years now I’ve not had to adapt my card selection too much since I’m stubborn and straight fwd with my decks . However I do agree that standard has made itself so limited to what u can run because of certain cards . Anytime I play against Nissa I know if I don’t kill her right off the bat it’s over . Same with Teferi.. It takes the fun out of trying different red brews because I have to run planes walker removal almost always in the main deck theses days .

[@moxavenger]

Help, I am a slug and you're melting me!

[@unbanrofellos5786]

I tap Mox Avenger for a slime counter

[@nickniehaus1763]

Mega Police proliferate

[@unclerubo]

Every time I go back into MTGA I wonder if I should just uninstall it and give the middle finger to WotC. It is just so polarised that fun decks are not viable at all. Even in unranked modes. Sure, from time to time you will find someone who's there just for fun like me but most of the time it's just mono-red or Terefi or Lurrus in every single game.

[@nickniehaus1763]

RDW is prominent at gold and below. This is because people want to play fast, and if you can win in 4 turns with a deck you will. Leveling up fast is a goal for many people. After plat, at least for me, I’ve only seen a handful of RDW being used. As someone who has always loved red deck wins, not because it’s easy but because I liked Chandra and I like to play fast, I use it a lot. The only people I’ve seen using mono red above gold run cavalcade of calamity and that deck is super easy to counter. I even beat it w my embercleave RDW set. All the current rdw are easily counterable with life gain.

[@nickniehaus1763]

Now teferi is bullshit. Don’t get me started.

[@superstarajl]

Some good points - I think it's important to keep formats fresh and so to randomly push a card or two but the past year has just been so over the top to the point that you can't recognize some of the format staples anymore. I play modern irl and on modo and Lurrus has just overrun it.

[@jellyfrosh9102]

This was a huge reason I quit playing in 2017. Looks like it’s gotten even worse

[@benjaminkaye5119]

24:05. Exactly how I feel about commander. I play modern and don’t play commander to have the same feel. Enjoyed the video , keep your head up buddy. Let’s hope this tide turns ...

[@elbe0072]

I just love playing a 3 Drop and get it bounced by teferi next turn . throwing me back like 2 Turns .

[@brandonvoice8941]

Did you play nothing on your other turns? Are you playing a 3 drop on your turn 2 and they bounce it turn 3? You're not behind 2 turns unless you did nothing for your first 2 turns. In which case 🤷‍♂️

[@manuelgeraldino2235]

@@brandonvoice8941 doesnt change teferi is a broken card. Its a damn disgrace to the game

[@darklaw7635]

You can do the same with brazen borrower, why not get it banned too?

[@curtisedmonds7678]

@@darklaw7635 Just another ignorant comment from you that shows you don't know how to evaluate cards lmao. Teferi literally turns off what makes Magic, Magic. The card is too good even when it's at it's worst. Bounces a problem permanent, replaces itself, can't be removed the turn it's played, turns off entire decks in some cases for 3 mana that can be played on turn 2. Brazen borrower only generates tempo without doing all of the other cancerous things that Teferi does. They're not even comparable.

[@darklaw7635]

@@curtisedmonds7678 teferi turns off what makes magic magic" this is the dumbest statement ever heard. Teferi turns off instants... Clearly magic is all about instants. That's the only difference You just want a everything to be easy. You don't adapt to anything and just complain about how you lost to a card soo many ways. People lose to teferi just as much they lose to embercleave, agent, ecd. There won't be a world where wotc will please you. That's how the game has developed. Teferi is a good card. That's it.

[@azarisLP]

I am no longer convinced that the Play Design Team has the goal of balancing gameplay, or following the FIRE principle, or whatever it is they're publicly claimed to do. Evidence indicates that their job is to make sure that every new set completely invalidates all sets printed before it and if possible that there should be multiple new broken decks every set so that they can say a balanced metagame exists. If you follow that metric, they are performing very well.

[@passedjudgements4729]

azarisLP I think it's Hasbro telling them to print power other nonstandard formats will want so more packs sell. The fact Oko was played in VINTAGE validates that idea. That push for cards players of all formats will crack packs for

[@RecondosJungle]

I don't think fair or fun gameplay is really a concern either. But we are our own enemies. Look how ape $h1# everyone goes when they see a preview of a new powerful card that's coming out. We buy boxes and preorder because of it/them, we start searching for how it can be broken so we will have a "sure" win as soon as we can get our hands on it. We want alt art, borderless and foils of it because it is so good. If a set is weak and/or unexciting we complain non-stop because it has no "good cards" that stand out. Boom. A monster has been created.. one that lives in a capitalistic world and has investors and profit margins. So why not power creep? Why not let consumers go afrenzy about cards in new sets? Why not give them sets that are far from vanilla? $$$

[@passedjudgements4729]

'Drew Swenson because that becomes a feed back loop of escalation. You keep making things more and more powerful and the power creep destroys the game from the inside. Imagine Time Walk being reprinted. That's the future you just described. The reserve list has to be addressed eventually if magic lasts another 25 years cause then new players have no chance at edh staples that won't ever see reprint by simple virtue of the reserve list. Am I saying they'll reprint Time Walk into standard? No, but I am saying the continual escalation will result in reaching a point where the game can't make anything else more powerful and you end like yugioh where whoever goes first can vomit their entire deck into play and win simply cause they won a coin toss and went first. That's not fun that's not magic where the designers tell you what cards to run vs making a a set and letting players figure out where card belong and where they can go

[@RecondosJungle]

Ya.. I was being facetious

[@RiseInAfterlife]

@@passedjudgements4729 And now those idiots printed Lurrus who sees play in Vintage and Legacy to an absolutely disgusting degree. Lurrus right now is 70% of the Meta in those 2 OLDEST ETERNAL FORMATS! WotC """"Playtesting""""" Department are completely incompetent

[@SiameseCats4ever]

I first started playing Magic in 2003. I have stopped playing only to resume once again years later, during different opportunities. However it seems to me that it has become increasingly difficult to cope with how boring the game has become. Or maybe I just became old... I'm glad to have lived great times of Magic. Back when in Extended there were multiple great decks: RDW, Life.dec, Psychatog, Alluren, etc. During those times there was also variety in the T2 and block formats. Different strategies you could choose and still be able to win a big tournament. Since the energy mechanic came out in the Indian-inspired block (I can't even remember the name) it has gone downhill.

[@matthewbeasley7425]

I am predominantly a Commander player and I share your concerns about the format. 2019 introduced a lot of really pushed legendary creatures (Urza, Golos, Korvold, Chulane) and the format is getting faster and less interactive. I feel fortunate that I have a healthy playgroup overall, but I have seen so much more degeneracy over the past year.

[@Chris-ht5ng]

How many of those commanders have actually appeared in your playgroup tho? Commander hardly has a meta. The real meta is having fun. For every argument saying the new edh cards are must runs there's at least a few silent playgroups having a boat load of fun regardless that just haven't chirped up in this comment section

[@matthewbeasley7425]

@@Chris-ht5ng Of the 4 I mentioned...I have seen all of them in my playgroup haha. However, I am fortunate enough to have a healthy playgroup where we can talk about power level and come to reasonable compromises. I'd argue I'm in a fortunate position though. There are many playgroups and game stores where things get unbalanced very quickly

[@plshalpme173]

try building a cube, it's been the best 2 years for me.forget about fair magic, draft storm.

[@passedjudgements4729]

plshalpme get black lotus proxies and stuff 5 or 8 of them into the cube. Let the madness and chaos happen

[@jtyree0226]

Cubes are the best

[@t4rv0r60]

started my own small cube just recently, its alot of fun.

[@sjdhrjrjejdhdhsh]

I wish my friends liked cube :(

[@passedjudgements4729]

Mitch no make one and shuffle it all up and have it ready to go and tell them it's a draft they don't have to pay money to participate in and they can play with cards like the power nine cause its your collection and if you're against proxies for your own cube you're just being pedantic. Seriously in my cube I'm trying to finish up I have 12 black lotus proxies in it for the sole reason of making it more likely to be picked and for chaos to happen when there's multiples picked. It makes things so much more enjoyable and memorable when big mana shennangians occur

[@benjones1717]

Magic is fun when you get to build your own deck, at the moment wotc is choosing which cards are playable and which aren't more so than before.

[@seileen1234]

Why everything have flash/haste? Planeswalker. Mostly Turn3 ones.

[@shwift8789]

I miss kaladesh and Aether revolt, I get why energy and vehicles were too good, but at least it wasn’t so good that it didn’t destroy modern.. like the cards that got banned were smugglers copter and attune with Aether. Neither of those cards are unfair- they were just good parts of good decks, unlike Teferi, Oko, and the companions which are all multi format destroyers

[@darklaw7635]

So it's ok to destroy standard but not modern.... How convenient

[@shwift8789]

Darklaw not how I meant it. The problem is that the cards are too powerful in general, it hurts the most in formats like standard and pioneer.

[@jellyfrosh9102]

Man, it must be bad if people want kaladesh back.

[@DarksteelHeart]

The way you explain how you like to play magic is what my friends and I call "Gentleman's Magic" tit for tat, exploratory turns and interactions so that you can try new and different strategies. Wish me luck, I'm actually playing tonight. Edit: the best X cost spell is Mindswipe. Hands DOWN

[@lanesteele240]

Fist question im asking before i play a game of commander, do you have mutate cards in your deck. If so, ill just set that game out.

[@1998wiwi]

What's wrong with mutate? That mechanic is really weak compared to a lot of others. Doesn't even get played in standard.

[@Trivedi_Tuesdays]

Commander with strangers is no fun, now that many have embraced cedh. Unless you want to slug out against combo decks that win in t3-4, then casual commander with friends is the only way to go.

[@austinharr4067]

Never understood this, for me I noticed EDH became people who wanted to brag about winning, but couldnt cut it in traditional formats, so they prey on more casual players.

[@Chris-ht5ng]

@@austinharr4067 there's always those types in every community. Plenty in Nottingham but equally my playgroup is full of players who've tried competitive and are bored of it and just want a good laugh

[@austinharr4067]

@@Chris-ht5ng I wasn't referring to those grew tired of competitive and just wanted a change as you said, around here there are a few, who when they played formats like modern, they constantly lost, or even got caught cheating, all after boasting how good they were or how they should have won, and raged out, so they went to the EDH group where a lot of people as you say, are just looking to have fun and have a laugh, dumped insane amounts of money into it, to have a "competitive" deck, and talk like they are a big shot, its awful.

[@patrickbuerke1390]

@@austinharr4067 CEDH is so stupid.

[@TheGamingLegendsOfficial]

@@patrickbuerke1390 cEDH is fine, *IF* the group agrees to playing cEDH. Having 3 casual players and a cEDH player in a pod isn't fun for anyone except the cEDH player, and *THAT* is where the problem lies.

[@El_Moxo]

I'll be taking a break from mtg until standard and especial sets like Modern horizons power down, if that doesn't happen (which likely won't happen until one or two years from now) then I'll stop attending events and purchasing cards, I don't feel like mtg has a niche for me anymore. Modern which is my favorite format has basically become a standard-like format with all these drastic changes whenever a set comes out, it has changed to a point where it's no longer recognizable as the great format it has always been (even with all its flaws), I know that most people don't feel the same way I do but I'm not ok with magic becoming ever more powerful and invalidating older cards, that's not the magic I fell in love with. The design philosophy they have started to implement doesn't seem to be healthy for the longevity of non-rotating formats and certainly not for the game. Maybe I'm being biased but I want my card to matter even after years of play. Also, it's frustrating to keep losing cards that I have had for years because a new card breaks them, I say ban the cards that break them not the other way around, it is obvious they are making me buy their new cards. I could go on and on but at this point, I'm just ranting... Please WOTC could you just stop pushing new cards!? Thanks for your thought out videos and objective view Kevin, I feel most content creators are just promoting new sets and magic products very few actually take the time to mute the noise and hype and actually evaluate the state of the game form a different perspective. I really hate when they say "I applaud wizards for trying new things to keep the game fresh" which is basically creating the perception that it is ok for WOTC to keep pushing cards any way the like,... NO! they don't need to do that to keep the game fresh and NO I don't want to have to run and buy new cards every 3 months.

[@jellyfrosh9102]

It’s just like planned obsolescence in cars and phones. Force you to buy the new product by making the old product worse.

[@jesseselders2942]

I blame the Arena grind. Gamers gravitate toward structured goals such as quest lines, so the ladder climb gets way more attention than brewing. You're better off sticking with the daily quests to build your collection, so you can have the freedom to brew. The cards are mostly fine. Nissa gives me the most trouble, but we don't need to ban her. Green had enough bans already. I think they already banned most of the trouble makers. I never liked companion cards, because they're obviously ripped from Hearthstone. We do need to have more card interactions, but we also need to have more players experimenting with cards to make rogue decks. Have you ever noticed most players only want to buy Magic cards when they're extremely expensive? Then, they complain about card flippers. Cards were way cheaper in January than they are even now. If players want to counter the meta, they need to buy playsets of every cheap card and hold them post-rotation. That way, it will be easy to swap cards in your deck before you go to FNM. If you know 80% of the players there are running one of two decks, that gives you even more of an edge. There are cards you could buy for less than $0.05 right now that will be at least $3.00 in a few months. That's what the market channel talks about, but not enough people are listening. If you think the meta is stale, shake it up. I threw a bunch of money into Arena and filled out my collection. The digital packs cost much less than the paper ones. It's so wonderful to have to cards to brew jank stuff all day long. I've been able to come up with some pretty powerful mono-color decks. If you want to play at the LGS, you can experiment online and buy whichever paper cards on your list that are at their bottom price right now. Even if you don't get them all, you'll probably end up paying 30% of what you will, if you wait to buy them in July. I almost never buy physical packs anymore. Online prices have been too low to pass up. TCG Player is the place to scoop up insane deals. Murderous rider was way too expensive for me at $8.00. A few weeks ago, I bought my 4 copies for $1.50 each. I also bought plenty of awesome uncommons for one penny each like specter's shriek, improbable alliance, redcap melee, grumgully and eternal isolation. Nobody was playing them and now they're starting to. Most players completely overlook underrated cards that answer the cards they say are busted. I love it when my opponent runs Teferi. No matter which color I play, I include Leyline of Combustion, AKA Circle of Protection: Meta. Players also don't use enough creatures in 2020. Jeskai Fires has twice as many creatures as Bant Midramp. Creatures are the main source of interaction in Magic. You won't have the same kind of back and forth if you stay on the defensive with counterspells and flash creatures. You have to go on the offense sometimes. We had way more creatures on the battlefield, back when Amonkhet and Kaladesh were in standard. WOTC apparently thought we would have the same in the current version of standard and that's why they reprinted Blazing Volley. Just look at the standard card that put more creatures on the battlefield. Dreadhorde Invasion is a cornerstone of my black deck and it drives my opponents crazy. You have to put the pressure on your opponent, to give yourself a little breathing room. When in doubt, make them discard or tap their stuff. That's old school. The meta will be healthy again, when people get back to basics.

[@ThatXLazerXGuy]

Commander is fine in playgoups that adhere to rule 0 and communicate. I dont get to play edh in shops so I'm not sure on that end.

[@Chris-ht5ng]

Too right! My best pals are my edh playgroup and we've got a kinda silent set of rules going and we have loads of fun. Not sure how anyone can bitch about edh having a meta of must play cards now.. The whole point of edh is you make it what you want to have fun. If players wanna grind tournaments and get wins without socially interacting with the opponents there's plenty of other formats available.

[@oatmealftw]

Fantastic points! And you barely touched on how toxic these cards have been in other formats! Teferi, Oko, Narset, Once Upon a Time, the new companions, and the modern horizons cards liie hogaak, astrolabe, and w6

[@daveclarke1990]

Companions are pretty fun in draft. Hope they can find a way to fix companion for constructed so they can put 2-3 companions in future sets.

[@1alex593]

I’ m feeling the same right now. I’m considering seling my collection. Every sets and every ban day I have strong hope and in the end of the day I’m disapointed. There isnt interaction , there isnt skill anymore, just some shitty «we do our things, let’s See who win faster without playing together ». That’s weird.

[@OsvaldoChannel1]

*looks at CatOven*

[@JoshyBoy219]

I'm happy to listen, I feel the same way. I love combing through my cards trying to find cool brews but the people I play make that not even fun once you realize you're fair/fun deck can't win a match. Not because it's a bad deck but because the other shit out there is so busted.

[@SamuraiMotoko]

Well Rosewater's probably don't care and will deny everything

[@MarkAvo]

If answers were better, would that help? Has anyone run a test format that’s essentially just Standard but with counterspell and path? maybe a card like Stone Rain?

[@DanielEvanClarke]

I honestly miss kaladesh standard. Delirium, blue white flash, and vehicles were fair decks and marvel didn’t get out of hand until they decided to swing a ban hammer through these decks

[@pizzaflavoredh2o478]

Most of the newer sets, like after Ahmonket, feel like what would happen if you let a salty net decker design the sets. It just doesn't feel organic. Everything is pushed and forced. I remember when cards would be good organically and not be forced for the power level.

[@fredmitchell5987]

You were so tilted you skipped Theros LMAO!!!! I pretty much agree with everything you said though.

[@davidalzuria7481]

I feel quite the same. As a modern player since almost the beginning of the format I now feel that the decks I knew and loved have just seized to exist and their respective strategies too and now modern is just a bunch of Burn, Uro and Whirza decks.

[@rogerhurtubise2150]

I've played magic basically 5/6 of my life, and power creep has been an issue for quite sometime. However they used to throw the ebrake to compensate like Masque block from urza's or kamigawa from mirrodin. I'm afraid that'll happen again soon where they dumb it down from the other direction. As far as edh goes I started in 09 with my pod of friends, power creep happens naturally, but yeah pushing things does shallow the lake as well.

[@yeloice1601]

I’ve always stuck to mono-red, am I the bad guy?

[@PeterClausman]

Dominaria/ Ravnica was a good Standard, wasn’t it? I don’t play standard, but modern commander and pauper. And fled to legacy. Because there you really have interesting games, even with very linear decks around. But the last sets have impacted legacy waaaay too much. And that is a sign as well.

[@ahigherplace1542]

Last great standard was seriously Shadows Over Innistrad. That Pro Tour top 8 was so magical, with control, aristocrats and midrange creature decks. No stupidly pushed mechanics, and best of all: No annoying planeswalkers

[@dennisyoung6122]

Much of the problem I feel revolves around how there are so many powerful cards for cheap that have no downsides. Especially in colors that can afford the higher costs*coughgreencough*. Then there are the mechanics that just aren't worth playing as they either take too long or have too little support, mill and land destruction.

[@clayxros576]

And here I thought Force of Wind was an issue only in Force of Will.

[@mattstrott753]

Well said Kevin. I've been concerned about commander being too pushed for a while. I hadn't put my finger on it before this but you nailed it. My discontent started right before War of the Spark. Now I know why.

[@wraithita]

Jeskai Lurrus. T2: Birth of Meletis T3: teferi T4: fire T5: Lukka -2 for Agent of Treachery and Yarion blink. Me: concede and close arena. I know he probably kept a goldfish hand, but how can I beat this? Something it’s gone very very wrong with this format.

[@matthewarnold4557]

I liked standard when it was four sets, we need more rotations eight sets is too many.

[@JalebJay]

Standard has always been 5-8 sets. Only for a short amount of time when they started two 2-set blocks a year did it have a limit of 6 (which turned players away cause they didn't get to use their cards for a longer period of time)

[@jellyfrosh9102]

If you make the card pool too small it makes this problem worse

[@matthewarnold4557]

@@jellyfrosh9102 how?

[@jellyfrosh9102]

@@matthewarnold4557 because if the card pool is too small then there's less viable decks to build, and you're forced even more into the archtypes in the sets. the problem with standard today is shit card design not the card pool size.

[@friesensdiecastcollection2734]

I agree with you. I'm thinking MtG was better with the extended format. The designers today have to make cards for eternal formats , that are also playable in Standard. It's s better way to design cards for a rotating eviorment. How many cards are really playable after Rotation from Standard in the eternal formats. It is better to design cards for a limited card pool with flavor. I love all the old sets from 2000-2008, because every Set had interesting themes an mechanics. And extended was my favorite fomat. I Loved my Dredge-a- Tog-, Madness- and Affinity- Decks. And EDH ist also a lackluster format with every year's new decks. In the beginning, we played cards with a nostalgic feeling from thr past of MtG's History. But now, we have an Update every year with special designed cards. The nostalgia is lost. I'm living in Europe and I'm playing Premodern. It's a nostalgic Format with only cards in the old frame between 1995-2003. It hast a short banlist and is balanced. There's the old nostalgia, that got lost with EDH.

[@anactualopinion868]

I understand what you're saying just understand that nostalgia is subjective I've only been playing for like six years so my Nostalgia is dragons of tarkir... the cards from your era are completely different than now... almost a different game

[@skiphoffenflaven8004]

All MTGO is these days is a competition between credit cards. It wasn’t always like this. In the late 90s/early 00s, it was a competition of creativity, imagination, and bizarreness. Nothing but decks cut-and-pasted from online deck card lists and tons and tons and tons of decks stacked with rares today. All of this forces people to become a clone of the month.

[@aidanm.655]

Lol you were right about Cavalier and Kenrith not being the problem, the Yorion, Lukka, Agent deck is debatably more broken than regular fires. The mana cheating is just way too hard to combat in standard, especially with both Teferi and Narset to back up the strategy.

[@bluelaser138]

The only format I actively like playing anymore is sadly pauper as I feel a very similar way about how the game is going and In arena I’ve noticed the deck variety is atrocious the two decks I’ve been seeing everywhere is stuff like a Green combat tricks and Azorious flyers and I don’t know if this is just because I’m a newer player or not

[@mrpinguimninja]

Apparently Sam Black was on the design team that came up with the companion mechanic, he warned them and they pushed the mechanic regardless

[@Robert-vk7je]

About edh: The "pushed for commander" issue is something Prof from Tolaria did predict. People at my lgs started playing "pauper commander" because of this. But then covid19 came...

[@Kerrmunism]

Thank you for being the better version of DesolatorMagic that we all needed.

[@roguedeckbuilder]

Sssshhhhhh you don't want to say his name three times or he will show up!

[@SmartAlec1]

I was thinking the same thing lol Desolator is a broke clock who brags when he's right about cards being broken, but he calls stuff like "Revel in Riches" OP net deck bs lol

[@matthewarnold4557]

@@SmartAlec1 I've hate watched his streamer a couple of times. He complains about the power level, while generally sucking at magic lol

[@blipsontheradar]

I liked the golgari explore meta in guilds. Everything after that felt really bad as far as fun-level.

[@DFunct905]

I haven’t played Magic in a while, but I remember really enjoying Khans and then Dragons Standard. (That was less than 10 years ago ;) ) I never once played a Siege Rhino either. Lightning dragon then later Sarkhan was my guy and we won plenty of FNMs

[@Finngrinder]

There would be SO MANY amazing ways to make sweet cards that are actually strong and good! They occasionally still show it. Collected Conjuring. Such a sweet card. Same for As Foretold, Crashing Footfalls or my fave example being Vantress Gargoyle which showed what Delver of Secrets should be, a mindful, flavored card that has actually drawbacks so you need to decide how to play to use it defensively at all and it's not just a dumb flier that is way too efficient like Insectile Aberration. Meanwhile, Lurrus is just mindless as is the whole mechanic (Gyruda in Legacy off double LED T1), Astrolabe straight up murdered Legacy and Modern and even more so did Oko with the Elk not being -1 as it should and the +2 moving out of every possible Fry or Sinkhole range.

[@ron7116]

One of my favorite shops used to run 32+ players for standard before eldraine. When Oko ran amok, they dwindled to 5-7, lucky if a queue ran. People who loved those pushed cards had no one to play against and it was in every deck. These cards don’t even feel fantasy driven anymore; they’re thesis length summaries on pretty art.

[@adolphus28]

'Slip through the craps' haha. Yea, not sure what play designs angle has been the past few sets. A way to 'power' up Commander and Pioneer as their priorities for 2020?

[@erghstragh761]

My favorite deck prior to War of the Sparks (where i quit for a while) was gruul and is still. because its a lot of thinking what to do. But the Lurrus, Fires and Reclamation is rly annoying. Its as if ur playing a timer... i want the times back when Counters were my worry.

[@sophialovecraft7894]

I was thinking we should just up the life total, might help a little, so much double strike stuff, menace also.

[@NikitaGrygoryev]

I've also felt the same for last few years. But as a modern player I like what Lurrus does to the format. Basically me and my opponent are playing this cool interactive decks with this option once per game to play this busted card. Yes, this greatly narrows down cardpool but imho I'm glad people don't get to play teferi or Lili in such decks.

[@TheCartajay]

Can we just go back to 2011 standard please?

[@lukestange]

the biggest issue with the playtesting is that all members are former pros. you can't put a bunch of spikes in a room, people that prefer magic at its most broken, and expect them to produce cards acceptable for the mass majority of the player base.

[@reconstructionmanifest7349]

Believe me. You are not alone. I didn't play theros on arena except for the very first day, and I was mythic ranked all previous seasons. I couldn't standddddd control or aggro every single damn game

[@RiseInAfterlife]

I basically stopped ranking with Oko. Thought to myself 'maybe next set' aaaand nope. Theros Meta was trash and Ikoria Meta is trash. Haven't touched ranked since ELD.

[@ThomasL.116]

I wouldn't call it tilt, I would call it a great analysis! Thank you for that!

[@wrongturn5089]

I played probably 15 games on Arena yesterday. I ran into Teferi in at least 8 of those games.