I made a small 3 stage cylinder for my power draw bar

After upgrading the spindle motor on my small CNC milling machine, my old power drawbar cylinder wouldn't fit anymore...
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[@juanmanuelgarciaortega2591]

increíble proyecto!!! 👌👌👌 Porque los tornillos de fijación necesitan esos dos resortes??

[@sto2779]

So thats how ATC works on a milling machine... always wondered how exactly it worked with pneumatics. Nice that you built it from scratch.

[@MHeard03]

I like the spinning thing. Another fun video from Jeff about his Jeff.

[@brucewilliams6292]

You did a great job on this. Thanks for the lathe tip using the floating dead center.

[@3dmakerzone75]

I was so happy to see this video come up in my feed today. I've been hoping you would publish it every since I saw your spindle upgrade post on the gram back in November of last year. The video was very well done and I left with the feeling that maybe I could make the cylinder I need for my mill.

[@PracticalRenaissance]

Glad to hear it! Sorry it's taken so long to publish, I'm a slow editor 😂 Good luck to you if you try your own!

[@3dmakerzone75]

@@PracticalRenaissance I was going to ask what downforce you designed for but I see you answered it below. I've already started designing mine in Fusion 360. How long is the stroke?

[@jqhartle]

Man, your mill head looks mean with that servo spindle motor and that 3 stage air cylinder 😍

[@AaronEngineering]

Great design and a nice neat build Jeff. The new pneumatic cylinder works an absolute treat. Thanks for sharing mate. Regards, Aaron.

[@PracticalRenaissance]

Thanks Aaron! I’m very pleased with how it turned out!

[@michaelbrocato7535]

Great job on explaining everything and your right no need for drawings , plans just watch the video . This is a job to be proud of like you said !!

[@joels4208]

Very impressive! I am getting started with metal working and hope I can make this kind of stuff one day!

[@PracticalRenaissance]

Thank you! Just remember it's one foot in front of the other, I was just a guy with a dremel and some hand files not that long ago

[@joels4208]

@@PracticalRenaissance You are doing great... Thanks

[@GregsGarage]

This video makes me want to get a lathe REALLY bad!!! Great work as always Jeff!!!

[@PracticalRenaissance]

I'm surprised you don't! 😁 Thanks Greg!

[@bulldozer7656]

Great video,showing the process. Your just flat out awesome. I'm still learning 2. It's a steep curve!!!!

[@minskmade]

what an awesomely over the top build...cant believe youmade your three stage cylinder...very fun. ill take the weak route and buy one :P...loove the vid...

[@rengankrishnaiyer6912]

Advantage of multistage cylinder is multiplied force, since pressure is the same for each cylinder and same area. Travel is the same since they are in series ?

[@ToBeeOrNotToBeHoney]

Do you have any pointers on the physics of the multi stage cylinders? I believe making them is pretty simple. One intake hole above each piston to push them down, and another in the bottom plate that will push the stack up. In the cylinders that are not pushed up there are holes below the piston that just let air flow freely to evacuate the air as the piston moves.

[@tomahawkcnc5583]

Would you be able to give information on what thickness and dia of bellview washers used please

[@TevisC]

could you have simplified the plumbing by instead leaving it square and drill in a single high pressure feed that went to the top of all 3 stages?

[@jonathonwood4088]

I wish you had gone into how you came up with the numbers though. I didn't realize it was this easy, so I'll be making my cylinder as well

[@PracticalRenaissance]

Dang I thought I replied to this, must have gotten eaten. Anyway, the key numbers are in the output you need to compress your belleville springs, and that's a function of the PSI you can get from your air compressor vs the diameter of piston(s) you want. Force output per cylinder is the piston area (Pi*radius^2, I just use an online calculator 😂) times operating pressure. You can then multiply this by the number of sequential pistons (3 in this case) to get your overall output force and if that's enough to compress the holding force your springs are putting on your drawbar, then bob's your uncle. With my setup my piston is outputting a shade over 2k lbs of force, enough to compress the 7/16" ID Belleville spring stack I have; it's a shade lighter than what the Tormachs use on their machines I think but I personally use light tools and haven't had a problem with tool pullout with this setup (in fact I'd only ever had a problem with tool pullout when I was manually tightening the drawbar). It's all based on different variables which is why I didn't get too deep into it in the video, hope this helps further explain some of the "Why" and "How" for you, and thanks for watching!!

[@jonathonwood4088]

@@PracticalRenaissance I'm a bit of a jerk to be honest... I run my PM-45M really hard. I also don't really have shop air since this is in the back room of my house and not in a real shop. All of the outlets are on 1 circuit. I need to see the current draw on my control box (220v) and see if I can get a small air compressor on it. Thanks for the explanation!!

[@joecnc3341]

Excellent Video, Jeff! Keep 'em coming.

[@jbizzle42]

Wow really cool project. Are we gonna see an ATC tool rack ;). I am gonna build one of these machines for prototyping skateboard trucks. Your videos are very helpful. Thanks!!!

[@PracticalRenaissance]

That's awesome, good luck! I don't think I'll ever attempt an ATC on this machine, there's some real smart folks out there who have made some and they're super awesome and very overwhelming for me to think about, this sytem I have right now is nice and at my level 😁

[@sickswan61]

quick question i have mocked one of these up on fusion.. is there a certain volume the cylinders need to be or does it not matter as long as you have say 5mm of movement to press on the draw bar

[@TomZelickman]

Very cool design! Looks like it worked out great for you, sir.

[@PracticalRenaissance]

Thanks Tom! Yeah I'm pleased so far!

[@heeder777]

That is a super efficient way to do that. It looks like it also lowers the load the Z axis has to carry by reducing the weight. I’m still using a small pneumatic ratchet for a semi power draw bar. Did you crank out those parts on the Grizzly mini lathe?

[@PracticalRenaissance]

Thanks! Yeah I’m always concerned with too much load on the head causing problems during rapids, although I don’t think I had any problems with the old cylinder. I used the pneumatic ratchet for a long time, it’s reliable!! I made this mostly on my old south bend 9a lathe, the grizzly mini I have disassembled for another project/idea, but it could totally have been made on that!

[@jameslaird8399]

Hi, Very interesting video, on my list to make, Is that 8mm OD tubing?

[@nathankazier2267]

Awesome Job Jeff!! I know the first project I'm doing when I get my lathe!

[@DarkArtGuitars]

Awesome video! Do you think it would work to interpolate the cylinder on the mill instead of using a lathe? I don't have a lathe myself and the only one I have access to is quite crappy, not sure if it even has a 4 jaw chuck. The o-ring grooves might be tough, but it could work with a T-slot cutter or a small slitting saw. I'm just worried about the accuracy of the interpolation compared to a true round bore from a lathe.

[@EmyrDerfel]

Inverting the "lathe-as-a-mill" trick, you could clamp the tool in a vise on the table and mount the work onto a toolholder on the spindle.

[@DarkArtGuitars]

@@EmyrDerfel I've seen that done before, and would totally do it for small parts, but not so sure about a big cylinder. Worth a consideration though for sure

[@EmyrDerfel]

@@DarkArtGuitars other option is to finish off the cylindrical surfaces with a boring head or a flycutter with a custom insert.

[@n2cval89]

Using the concepts in your video, my 3 stage cylinder is finally finished (except base plate). I have the Precision Matthews PM-30MY. Where did you get the longer drawbar?

[@PracticalRenaissance]

I just used a piece of 7/16-20 B7 grade threaded rod from McMaster. I killed hexagonal flats into the top of mine after cutting it to length, but that feature isn’t mandatory

[@4x4-l2t]

what is the bore and stroke of the 3 stage cylinder you made?

[@772777777777777]

The question i have is this ac servo capabile of cutting steel on your mill ..what size is the servo motor at what speed do you cut and what the max dept of cut

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

good job..thanks for your time

[@PracticalRenaissance]

Thank you for watching!

[@wolfz9123]

wanted to ask wht size the square stock was?

[@DaveNorthWest]

I'm subscribing this is awesome! Thanks

[@PerWiklund234]

Great video series on the conversion. I just started to convert my Optimum. Do you use an oiler or any other type of automatic lubrication for the slideways?

[@sandboundchris]

Amazing work. Thanks for making feel like a lazy ass for buying mine. 👍

[@PracticalRenaissance]

😂😂 I mean, I'm just too cheap and stubborn to buy a proper one...

[@juanmanuelgarciaortega2591]

1000 € ??

[@stockholm-tech]

I'm imprest and have some Q Regular Nitril O-rings on the pistons or any other material? Have the cylinder assy held up until now Nov 2023? Kind regards/Stefan

[@feeseize9569]

I’m sitting here at 2AM and it occurs to me that I haven’t seen any videos from you in a while. I go to check manually and discover that sometime in the past KZbin unsubscribed me. Grrrrrrr. Got a lot of catching up to do.

[@eric802]

"Just for funsies, what if we did it on the lathe?" - immediately after I was thinking "Man, I miss his lathe stuff".

[@PracticalRenaissance]

LOL its funny I probably do more random mundane tasks on the lathe than I do the mill, but of course the fancy CNC machine gets all the screen time..... 😁

[@rengankrishnaiyer6912]

Btw superb work

[@Jeremy-iv9bc]

The only problem is you're putting a ton of force on the spindle bearings. You may end up pressing the spindle right out of the head.

[@hairyfro]

11:41 I see you too haven't paid for the Fusion 360 license either.

[@PracticalRenaissance]

😂😂 Guilty as charged, this was right after they nerfed rapids and I ended up paying the money right after this project lol

[@LordOfTamarac]

Love it!!

[@alphadog6970]

Got em' ha😂😂😂😂😂

[@jimsvideos7201]

Neat-o!

[@ryanfreeman125]

This can only mean one thing...now you need an auto tool changer