I may switch to Bitwig from Ableton. And THIS IS THE MAIN REASON. (SO RIDICULOUS!!!)

[@PanopticMotion]

This is unacceptable on Ableton's part. I hope you can continue to bring this issue to their attention.

[@NormanTiner]

Ableton is deaf to feedback. They've had latency issues for over a decade that they refuse to address. Their shit is broken. This is coming from someone who's used Ableton for nearly 15 years.

[@peaterrepeater4441]

@@NormanTinerit’s simple, if you have latency problems you‘re the problem. However, I will gladly assist you to get rid of your latency problems, just let me know.

[@peaterrepeater4441]

@@NormanTinerAbleton is not deaf to feedback. Register at their centercode and report your problems there.

[@illeagle8041]

Bitwig and Studio One both just introduced a new way of saving projects that allow you to freely open either of those files in either program. I had no clue it would open ableton files.

[@StevenSmethurst]

Only bitwig can open ableton projects. There is a new cross platform file though that will work in s1 and bitwig and maybe others in the future

[@DaKingof]

It opens FL projects as well and I think one other... I forgot

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

In Reason you can save the entire Project as a multi Midi file, which saves all track midi, and modulation, which then can be opened in any DAW. The data is saved for the same plugins used but for Reasons own devices You will need to use the Reason Rack plugin and then you have to open presaved patches from your Reason DAW project then move the midi and automation to the Rack plugin in the DAW so a bit of work but not impossible.

[@JC20XX]

Bitwig will continue to surprise you. Trust me.

[@sp34277]

open ableton set, save as dawproject, profit

[@raggedrec]

Bitwig is working on a universal .DAW project file so that all daws can open it. so it makes sense that it can open Ableton projects at the moment. Studio One also now opens .DAW

[@SamHocking]

Bitwig was formed out of some of Ableton's Devs who wanted to take a different path to Ableton. It's opened Ableton before Bitwig introduce open daw project. Studio One can now open Bitwig and vice versa though using open daw project files.

[@wasabi333]

@@SamHocking Not true, everyone is spreading this misinfo.

[@SamHocking]

@@wasabi333 That's not what Claes Johanson says. He goes into this on the DAWbench podcast.

[@paintingwithnoise]

@@wasabi333 what specifically are you saying is not true?

[@yomilky6283]

I’ve been messing around in Bitwig for a month and it’s never crashed, even opening large Ableton projects. Also, there are some crazy good surprises in Bitwig, of course the MSEGs, but also special racks - FX Selector turns off all plugins on every chain inside it except the one you’re testing - fastest A/B I’ve ever used, savable), but also the Spectral devices from back in v 4.4, The Grid and so many other things.

[@asmarosyoussef]

That serious "warning" given by Ableton is surely due to a specific plugin, i had a case where i set x32 oversampling in a clipper saved and reopen it wont open, i knew it was because of this plugin, but Ableton doesn't report which plugin caused that which leaves you even more confused

[@wasabi333]

Exactly.

[@gughffhhghgghghgg1690]

Maybe dont fucking use clippers?

[@IonStream]

Same reason I switched. Had issues both on my Mac and Windows PC with entirely separate projects and plugins and I decided to ditch Ableton for now. If they do a massive code overhaul or implement some sandboxing features I’ll come back to check it out, but I’m just done with the crashes and bugs.

[@stevenSouthpole562]

Good news is you can have both. But I also gave up on Ableton on windows.

[@pleggli]

I've had a similar problem once a bunch of years ago.. I got in contact with Ableton support and sent them the project file and it got resolved in the next patch version. There will always be bugs in all software, that is not simply ever going to go away for any software that is actively used and developed. I mean yes, there is a balance to be struck somewhere where the number of issues overshadows everything else but I don't think that is the case for Live as it exist now.

[@theRumbleChannel]

Push integrates perfectly with Bitwig, it only needs a script which is provided by Jürgen Mossgraber. I actually even prefer the Bitwig integration :)

[@DaveDFX]

Bitwig audio editing and endless modulation is so cool. Plugins crash but the app never crashes. Feels very fluid . It's not perfect though

[@binarysun_]

I feel you bro. I’ve lost almost a years worth of projects because of Abletons f-ups. I was so bummed that I stopped making music for almost a year. Switched to MPC and Studio One. S1 does not have clips like Bitwig or live but it can do EVERYTHING really. It’s all there . What Ableton sells as a major release with Live 12 is ridiculous at best and people get totally hyped.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

What a disaster, I would hate to lose projects like that, some stuff just cant be recreated. I use Reason which two save formats, I use the one where the audio and samples ate loaded externally and only the device presets, midi and modulation is saved in the file, so long as your source files dont change location You can open any age of project almost.

[@themarcos150591]

Does S1 have groove pool? Mine is empty..

[@evelyntelevision]

Yep, same reason I switched. I've used Ableton since 2005 and paid for multiple upgrades over the years, but I stopped at 10 because it's just so unstable for me, on every machine I install it on, even with high specs. Switching was tough after all the time I've invested in Ableton, and I really do love it, but the instability just got to be far too frustrating and time consuming. I'm really glad I switched now

[@punditjudgement]

What did you switch to if you don't mind me asking?

[@evelyntelevision]

Bitwig! and occasionally Reaper @@punditjudgement

[@basdewaal2162]

Yes and version Ableton Live 11.3.11 says it is updating with the next restart. But it does not. It keeps on downloading in the background, but....

[@FurkanTopal]

UPDATE 2: After fixing this issue for some days, the crashes turned back. And I had to delete all Ableton files, uninstall and reinstall it. Ableton support does not help unfortunately.

[@wasiumbrion]

Bitwig open plugins in separate sandbox mode so when you open project and there is one plugin that is crashing bitwig it won’t open. Maybe somehow you can find one third party plugin in that project that is not working correctly and delete it. I’ve had a lot of crashes in the past but since I have enough RAM and I’m not using crappy written third party plugins everything works fine. If you are using cracked plugins this could be another issue. Sometimes plugins are not cracked properly.

[@FurkanTopal]

That's correct and Ableton should bring this sandbox technology as soon as possible. I'm not the only one who encounters this problem. Some people are switching for this stability issues and I might switch as well. Do I want to switch? Hell no, I learned almost everything of Ableton and I don't want my invested time to go in vain, and moreover I have emotional connection with my DAW but if I can't solve this, I'll have to switch. Ableton support told me that Diva and Raum causes crashes and wanted me to update them. Funnily Raum was already in the latest version and Diva is working totally perfectly on multiple projects. Even after getting this response from Ableton, I opened a new project and I only loaded Diva and Raum and saved and reopened it, didn't give crash. There's something wrong with Ableton's software man. They should listen to their users and they should bring this sandbox technology asap. Many people in the forum has been requesting this feature to come for long. It's extremely ridiculous that whole DAW crashes just because of one plugin crash. But there is more... If those plugin were crashing, Bitwig wouldn't be able to open it as well. They're working totally fine in Bitwig. Why is that, right? Ableton stayed behind in this case and I do really blame them. That's shameful.

[@yomilky6283]

It’s not cracked plugins, it’s Ableton 11.x, it’s so unstable under so many test conditions.

[@FurkanTopal]

@@iSkateNate what kinda drawbacks I wondered give me some examples please

[@brudduh]

I don't plan on ever switching from Ableton as my main DAW, but it's really cool that Bitwig can load Ableton project files. I use Ableton, FL Studio, Reaper, and I'm currently learning Cubase, but I'll definitely look into Bitwig Studio now that I've learned about this. Thank you for the video, and also consider reporting the issue to the Ableton Centercode!

[@FurkanTopal]

Honestly I don't want to switch too. I invested tons of time into Ableton, I even worked in depth on every single stock plugin of it. I gave huge amount of time and I'm fast at Ableton, I don't want to give up of all these things. I'm still trying to figure the issue out. I wish Ableton had sandbox technology then we wouldn't have these problems at all. They should give us the possibility to operate third party plugins separately. Btw I didn't know about the centercode, I thank you for that as well, I tried to join but e-mail verification hasn't been sent yet. I'm talking to Ableton support but they're giving answer a bit late and they say "We're sorry for the delayed response as we have a large number of requests at this time." - If they only bring this feature, they wouldn't have this much request and they would also get rid off the headache. When a plugin crashes, only that plugin should crash, not the whole DAW. And here interestingly that doesn't seem the reason also because everything works fine in Bitwig... Sad really.

[@DaKingof]

It opens FL projects as well and I think one other... I forgot

[@ontreitube]

Literally exactly the same setup. But I'm transitioning from Ableton to Cubase as the main. Not completely sure between Bitwig and Ableton. But bigwigs audio capabilities are far superior.

[@Digitt6]

​FurkanTopalBitwig has the same workflow as ableton and also allows you to customize any keyboard shortcuts you want. It took me a few days to switch to bitwig and I've never looked back. When I try ableton now, it feels so much more feature-lacking and alot slower workflow. Bitwigs browser for example makes workflow soo much faster. Bitwig also now has global modulators and you can map macros and buttons to the mixer itself. It's just a way faster workflow. Trust me, you won't look back after trying bitwig. Give it a proper go.

[@Digitt6]

Bitwig beats ableton by a mile in many areas! Well worth giving it a proper chance. I've never looked back after switching from ableton

[@rokko_fable]

I've been thinking about Bitwig for years. I gave it a go once, but I was immediately annoyed that I couldnt start doing everything straight away like I can in Ableton. that's true of switching any software though. I wan't in the right mind set. I might give it another go. It know it has features like being able to open multiple sets and drag between them, and much better touch screen support etc.

[@FurkanTopal]

Same here.

[@wasabi333]

Bitwig is VERY shit.

[@NakulKrishna]

So much better than ableton.

[@alipaulstagram]

Whenever you have this problem, it is always due to a 3rd party plugin, not ableton. Updating your plugins will usually fix this. If you want to open an ableton project that keeps crashing, hold down alt (option on mac I think) while opening ableton and it will open with all plugins disabled.

[@sp34277]

i know. i bought bitwig the other day and was very confused how it was so much better. im trying to get myself to switch from the 12 beta to bitwig 5.1 but it's hard because of habits, i think i can do it if i try hard enough

[@FurkanTopal]

I have the same feeling bro but still with Ableton but I wanna develop a habit that can benefit both

[@sp34277]

@@FurkanTopal probably gonna start all my projects in 12 and do the second half of the work in 5.1 xP

[@onlymeadow]

i mean ableton boots up so fast and runs super smoothly even on my 2020 macbook air

[@UnknownProblems]

This is exactly why i made the change too not long ago. Since live 11 Ableton has ben so janky and slow for whatever reason. But Bitwig.. no lag, no crashes, just works so well

[@Haydushka]

Your pc fascinasting i think, i hope i can buy something like that later ❤

[@finance_nex953]

this looks so good and it's relly mind blowing lol. Pls give an update when you switched and tried out bitwig for a couple of days :)

[@domko82]

Wait until you realize how fun the modulation concept of bitwig is. You'll never look back 😉

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

The better part about Bitwig too is that you can customize the toolbar, right click and pin shortcuts. And it's dynamic (the top toolbar), you kind of have to get used to the 4 tools thing, pointer, timeline editor, pen and kinfe etc. I never use erase tool though etc. and haven't used the pen and knife either. I re-bound the timeline tool from 1 to 2, and switched the cross pointer tool to 1. I hope they fix the way you can adjust the narrow and height of the audio-tracks thing on the left, you can collapse it currently however to make it minimal but I hope you can make it more narrow The real-time ruler is really nice, I am hoping for video options etc. I like the comment containers where you can write comments in cues, and there's a cue playback thing too You should also be allowed to change the color visual to white or something, or other colors. Not just black etc.

[@SupaMarioJCS]

Sometimes I have this problem and it’s a bad or faulty (VST2.dll or .VST3)

[@sabianroberts]

When I used to make music on Windows (I use Mac now) I got that Ableton error ALL the time. I suggest bringing it to the company's attention. Hopefully they fix it in time for Live 12.

[@Kompa55_Music]

I love Ableton but it crashes more than any other software i use. It’s so frustrating. Can sometimes take 30 minutes to get it stable enough to start working and by then I’m bored. Keep thinking of switching.

[@AlchemicalAudio]

Strange. What do you mean by get it stable? I occasionally get crashing, but that is usually an issue with hardware or a plugin. I have been thinking about going back and forth between Ableton and FL Studio for a few things… as I used to use it and enjoyed working in it.

[@wasabi333]

It's your plugins.

[@kayned6573]

Not sure if this will help you but check no 3rd party audio engines are running. I had a similar issue. Ableton support couldnt help. In the end I had to disable NahimicMSIUIlauncher

[@ArthurKlisiewicz]

I have the same problems. Considering another DAW

[@nowondr]

Love Bitwig, there are a few key DAW features it really needs to catch up on, like midi comp and retrospective recording, but they are usually pretty quick to update and I suspect these features will come in the near future. There are third party work arounds in the meantime.

[@pappysheart6710]

hi what is midi comp?

[@peaterrepeater4441]

Just deactivate audio, then load your set. It will open fine, then remove the plug in(s) that make it crash and you‘re fine. Heck, even just activating audio after you loaded the project could solve your problem.

[@FurkanTopal]

It’s not about that, even when I’m dragging midi notes, it gives crash strangely and everything is original and updated. And if the plugin was giving a crash, it would give a crash in Bitwig as well. We’re still talking about it with Ableton support, we couldn’t detect the problem yet.

[@infatuated9970]

The thing about Ableton is that its performance is contingent on your PC specs. If you have your project files and vsts on old hard drives with low memory and a slow cpu you aren't gonna have a good time. It's generally good practice to bounce to audio where you can but that's exactly the thing, Ableton was made for working with audio, not midi. It's designed for you to be able to easily turn your midi and effects into audio seamlessly.

[@FurkanTopal]

Have you read the description of the video? It's not about my specs in this case. Btw "Ableton was made for working with audio, not midi." is nonsense in 2023. I know it started as you said but it is a full set DAW for a very long time. Idk why you mentioned about this, what's the message here?

[@infatuated9970]

​@@FurkanTopalI can see you are incredibly frustrated with not having Ableton work for you. Your PC specs are indeed monstrous, I should have read your description. I haven't had any issues with Ableton at all and my setup is only about 80% as good as yours. That's what I'm failing to understand.

[@DiegoC1975]

i had same error on Ableton, in my case was a corrupted VST. When I found it and uninstalling it no more problem

[@ameer6168]

The biggest mistake i did was updating my Ableton it was running smooth but now it's fkd. I tried downgrading but issue remains the same

[@wuujujuuju]

I can’t get past how any other DAW looks compared to Ableton, FLs the only one that comes close in that regard. It’s surprising to say, but I value the design factor of the DAW so highly, I’m willing to stick with Live through all its BS.

[@FurkanTopal]

I feel for you. I also do care a lot.

[@valentinamira9817]

We are making sounds, I value design but performance is fundamental

[@wuujujuuju]

@@valentinamira9817 we are artists, and as artists we have tastes.

[@yqxpmusic2578]

A lot of times I’m working with videos but for Ableton’s compatibility to video files it’s just a pain, always crash. I was expecting them to solve the video problem on ableton 12 but turns out they like to add more features than solving problems, better for marketing I guess. Using ableton for 3 years, love it so much but Im switching

[@AlexanderCook87]

If you have a pink glowy computer things should open pretty much instantly.

[@ArcRunner]

Wow! I've never had an Ableton project go bad, but did have that experience with Cubase. Anyhow, I've also been transitioning to Bitwig.

[@vodkastudios4170]

I think Ableton would be way better with sandboxing, buuuut if you ever do have the issue like you had you can locate the vst that is responsible by turning off your vsts in ableton settings, then loading up the file, then turning vsts back on, then delete track and undo, do this for every track and when you have a track that you delete and undo the delete and it crashes, you know which vst is causing the issue. It is a terrible workaround that has lead me to stop using certain vsts altogether, but just an fyi for any other people who need to retrieve a file that does not want to load.

[@MartinStuertzer]

You can load Ableton files into Bitwig?! Why did I not know that!

[@Filomen7]

I don't know if I am just lucky or what, but I don't get what is everyone talking about with Live 11. I have the newest version of 11, running on last version of MacOS everything up to date and I have almost zero issues with it. It works just great, I have a crash like once in a month maybe not even that. In my opinion it must be problem with some plugins that people have that are crashing Ableton, or maybe some Windows problem (as it always is with Windows). And secondly, Bitwig is cool, but it is just a copy of Ableton in so many ways, you can see it everywhere in the software. Still really cool DAW but not as great as Ableton.

[@FurkanTopal]

Yeah my next stop will be definitely a Mac

[@Filomen7]

@@FurkanTopal you will not regret my friend, I switched from Windows after many many years and it was best decision. It has its cons but still for music making and with apple silicon - it is the best !

[@Creative_Spasciz]

Also, there are scripts out there for the Push that you can use it with Bitwig

[@pico5631]

lmao glad I'm not the only one. For me it was some M4L plugin, which was causing it, but I agree the plugin sandboxing in Bitwig is just genius. Also Bitwig is much more responsive than Ableton. Tried switching multiple times, but somehow I always come back to Ableton.

[@FurkanTopal]

I understand that because Ableton's workflow is much better imo. Although I keep the thought of switching, I don't want and I can't leave Ableton easily.

[@nassory_]

i had this problem with 11.3 as well. every time i would open a project it would crash, i just downgraded to 11.1 and it works flawlessly. This is still unacceptable tho

[@Aclipsiya]

It can also open fl studio projects

[@knowclass9034]

I had the same problem with Ableton starting about a month ago. Did all the same things. Started a new project and then migrated all my tracks over. Kind of a pain. But then I thought, if this is a plugin problem, let me go look at my plugins. Almost everyone one of them needed updating. So I just updated all my plugins and everything has been working fine ever since. I think sometime we forget just how many different plugins we all have.....

[@FurkanTopal]

All my plugins are original and updated and it was working fine but just got another crash 15 minutes ago. The error screen wasn't like this one but it was a crash as a result. Idk what to do with these crashes. I may really switch if it continues like this.

[@knowclass9034]

Oh, other thing I did that might have made a difference. I made a new folder for the plugin short cuts, for VTS2 and VST3. Left it on my desktop. Then only added the VST short cuts I know I was going to use. Option/Preference/Plugins, Browser (added new folder location) and Rescan. Purging old plugins is not a bad idea every once and a while😁👍 @@FurkanTopal

[@ElectricEddieDaus]

I very rarely have any issues with Ableton Live 11 Suite. Maybe something in the way your directory is set up.....

[@FurkanTopal]

Yeah and strangely this computer runs everything perfectly. All my other video programs etc, I tried Reaper and Cubase as well. Cubase crashed too but just once and aftet crash Cubase didn't shut down. I could continue without restarting the program. But everything works alright except Ableton and what I need is Ableton. And it's obvious that I'm not gonna be able to sell this computer easily and buy Macbook instead. So I guess I'm gonna have to learn Bitwig which works perfectly but still I'm trying to save Ableton and still we're continuing our conversation with Ableton support. Unfortunately the problem is not fixed yet. It's really really weird that I'm only having problem with Ableton.

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

The audio track section (that lame upper section, I agree) you can collapse it so it's small or mini-sized like in cubase etc, at the bottom-left you can shrink it to make it like small bars. I agree with that aspects visually and would love a re-skin or another new visual environment choice or a new window arrangement option etc. But I agree they should allow you to change it's width and the height of that audio tracks bar than it already is, like even more narrow or more wide

[@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69]

God damn I spent 649 for Live 11 suite.

[@vovagusse]

Even FL is better at loading project files. However, if the VST is "corrupted", the preset is lost forever :(

[@gianmarcorosso]

I have some problems with latest ableton too, when i open big projects like with hundreds of tracks, my GUI is so laggy and I can't even navigate or change some parameters in vst or even worse, some automation values, that ableton's gui freezes and go like at 3 / 4 fps. I running it on a hackintosh, with MacOs 12.6.2 , intel i9 10980xe 18cores, 64gb ddr4 3600 mhz ram, and an AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB. so a pretty heavy machine. im thinking to switch to logic x. any suggestions??? am i the only one having this problem? i think is about multi threading processing handling, my cpu is always 70% free even with big projects at max 256 buffer.

[@WavebiteDubstep]

This has happened to me on multiple occasions. It’s usually when there’s too much going on in the project (I.e. lots of vsts and tracks) The only way I found to fix it was remove all the vsts from there folder. Open Ableton then the project and try delete some tracks you can afford to get rid of. Then save a copy. Close Ableton and drag the vsts back into the vst directory. Try open the project again. Should work 👍🏻

[@punditjudgement]

It's a well intended suggestion, but that is the most absurd process to have to follow when the flaw is entirely on the software side.

[@WavebiteDubstep]

@@punditjudgement worked tho 👍🏻

[@Phunkm0nk]

I get so much better response for live use with BItwig. I just switched 3 weeks ago after using Ableton for 20 years. My migration has been a clean one since the developers of BItwig, used to work at Ableton.

[@FurkanTopal]

Wow, after 20 years. How could you do that? Even me, after a year in Ableton (I was on FL previously for years), I'm struggling a lot to switch. For example, when I was switching from FL Studio to Ableton, I had no regret and I was voluntarily doing that but as for switching to Bitwig from Ableton. I don't feel the same feeling. I feel like I'm loosing some really important workflow features, moreover I feel like I'm loosing someone I love so much deeply. It comes to me scary and even depressing at some point. I left FL for its endless popping up windows for example. And in Ableton, everything is in one screen and that was the thing I wanted. And I adopted Ableton so much that, it even became a part of my identity and it's in the center of my life as my main DAW right now but nowadays on the other hand I'm keeping the thought of switching because of these frustrations, but also I feel very reluctant to switch. I'm very fond of designs and visual compatibility at the same time and Ableton's design is far better than Bitwig imo, and also the workflow especially the way we write automations etc. And not seeing pan faders, or the obligation to click little play button in the browser to play the sample is some of the drawbacks of Bitwig for me currently. I'm really struggling and there's a war going inside me.

[@wasabi333]

Best of luck. I stayed with Bitwig for some time, but it's SO BAD compared to Live. Feels VERY BETA.

[@nowondr]

@@wasabi333 I feel the opposite. It's really just a matter of familiarity. They're similar enough that it isn't hard to learn, but if you used Ableton for a long time, all the subtle differences in Bitwig will probably annoy you. I find that it tends to perform much better overall, and some of the key workflow features are faster in wig. But my opinion of course.

[@relaxation_ambience]

I've never worked with Bitwig, but would it be possible to open Ableton file with Bitwig and save this file from Bitwig and then try to open with Ableton again ? Maybe that error would be gone ?

[@FurkanTopal]

No, it’s not possible. It opens ALS projects, even Studio One and FL projects too, maybe some other daws included idk but it only can save as Bitwig project or DAWproject which is a type used by some DAWs to have a mutual file type.

[@gavinhammond5415]

You can open ableton in safe mode and save it again and you'll be fine.

[@DarkTrapStudio]

Ive seen last version of Ableton being highly unstable with certains plugins, I think it could be fix to just downgrade the last version.

[@FurkanTopal]

I heard about this downgrading would be a good solution and in my 11.2.5, it wasn’t giving crash this much. I remember I was surprised with its stability after using FL but now it’s really bs. I will give some more chances, I deleted everything, set up from scratch with only original plugins and it gave only one crash yet but I’ll see.

[@DarkTrapStudio]

@@FurkanTopalIts really the first or second time I had problem with the stabilty in Ableton, Its that rare we take it for granted hahaha, we wouldn't be picky if we were using FL or Pro Tools instead for sure ^^ Reinstalling would not help if you don't downgrade tho I have the same problem.

[@DarkTrapStudio]

@@FurkanTopalIts a problem of stability Its just the plugins that are not compatible now with this version.

[@barrycole5930]

Lots of comments dissing Ableton crashes…is there any correlation between crash tendency and PC hardware/settings? I doubt you would have this issue on a mac (pretty sure ur on pc here?), and my pc has never crashed a project in ableton, neither has my mac. Just wondering as you may want to do more checks before switching, unless of course you find bitwig better in general.

[@FurkanTopal]

Are you with only stock plugins? How “never”? All Ableton users know that Ableton is giving crashes time to time, soon or late. How never? You’re either not a heavy producer working with many tracks or not using 3rd party plugins at all.

[@barrycole5930]

@@FurkanTopal interesting response to what was a genuine effort to help understand why people see crashes. Quite accusatory in tone and somewhat aggressive/disbelieving. not everyone on the internet is a liar. Wont be coming back here anytime soon but as you asked… Sure there has been occasional crashes of ableton, but your video specifically refers to a hard crash on a project file that ableton cannot open but bitwig can, that has certainly never happened to me. Any crashes of ableton shutting off without warning, which happens on all softwares from time to time, has resulted in some lost time, but nothing else, the file opens and all my plugins (yes i use 3rd party…a lot of them sometimes on some tracks) still work. My comment around correlation to hardware/software is perfectly valid, for example i had issues with a specific update of some plugins over the last 12+ years of using ableton, but it was usually fixed by the plugin developer or abletons own updates, in the same way some games crash then nvidia would bring out a graphics driver update to support a specific game or graphical update, its no different with audio programs. My comment re hardware refers to pc components and settings, pc’s are very variable in build, macs are not, this is why most producers use macs as the reliability (due to lack of variability and the nature of the way mac processes audio…as many say…it just works) is much higher. Hence why i have a specific purpose built pc for audio production and a mac. And hence why i maybe dont have the level of crashes others see, and yes “never” have these hard crash projects Word of advice if you want to grow your channel, dont assume your commenters are lying when asking genuine queries and suggesting there could be reasons for the issues you (and others) are facing. Good luck on your channel and with your projects.

[@FurkanTopal]

@@barrycole5930 Thank you for your feedback. Currently I have no intention to grow this channel. In the future maybe. I’m also thinking about switching to Mac no matter what. And thanks for explaining your experiences and giving your time. We’re good, I didn’t mean to attack you, I just couldn’t believe your having a smooth Ableton and I wondered the true reason. Seems like Mac is doing the magic, I’ll try and see.

[@datapusher-]

I hope Ableton pulls it together... Im sorry, the bitwig interface / workflow doesnt do it for me. Thats why I use ableton.

[@EdoardoMarcora]

You can definitely use Push 3 with Bitwig

[@AndroidGamingApps]

Just set the adjust vertical track lane size to have a shortcut and you're good to go

[@AndroidGamingApps]

I mean, the only thing i miss from Live is the vertical track zoom with Alt + Scroll

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

Yeah on the upper section, the track lane - you should be able to just eliminate completely so you only see the timeline arranger, and mixing options on the bottom. And be able to make it more narrow, the track width on the left is limited compared to what you can do on the right side. The left side should be able to go completely narrow

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

@@AndroidGamingApps That zooming option would be definitely helpful

[@farley333]

Yeah. I won't be switching. I'm way too deep in Ableton's ecosystem, but I do agree that sandboxed plugins (which is the reason Bitwig did not crash in your video) is a freature every DAW manufacture should work around the clock to copy over.

[@knowclass9034]

Okay, so I think I got a solution. When you get the error message as you go to save your project, do a File "Save Live Set As" give the project a slightly new name add a "_v1" to the end off it. Ex: ProjectName_v1. I have not been able to pin down the exact cause of the error. I tried a whole bunch of stuff trying to clean up my plugins and still got the error. At this point it just feels random. But.....now each time it happens, I do a "Save Live Set As", tweak the name, and keep going until I get the error message again, and repeat.

[@FurkanTopal]

How do you even save when it gives error because it only gives you an option to click "ok" and then it closes.

[@knowclass9034]

Okay let me get the error again and get you a "for sure this is what I did" but I feel like I didn't click the okay button, I clicked back into Ableton, left the error message on the screen, then went to file menu and did the Save Live Set As. I'm working on projects all day, so its bound to happen. Let you know @@FurkanTopal

[@ELEKTROGOWK]

I love also both DAWs, but every time I use Ableton and it crashes or I want to edit audio tracks, I always have that feeling for home sweet home Bitwig. Ableton has committed a big problem. They've been sitting on their hands for the last 10 years, not listening to users and not doing anything great. Now the time is coming, thatall the other underdog DAWs are passing them by. Ableton 12 beta is not a big jump, just fancy useless generative MIDI shit. OK, the browser is a bit better, but no automatic tags for 3rd party plug-ins. What a pain in the ass

[@gmorb666]

Could it be that ableton was programmed with intel in mind seeing how you have an amd?

[@FurkanTopal]

Interesting thought. I've never thought about that. And idk anything about that honestly, is it really possible?

[@gmorb666]

@FurkanTopal it might not be optimized as good as it would be for an intel chip. No way to know unless tested with a same spec intel machine though.

[@jahhe2611]

Holy shit that's crazyyyyyy, huge slap in the face for Ableton if you ask me!

[@JoelLinus]

I understand your pain, I want Ableton to succeed but it doesn't seem like they will if they don't get this shit modernized.

[@deandresmith5761]

Hopefully it doesn't crash as much lol 😆

[@SoundsByHeazy]

If you get ableton to crash and then upload and are your crash dump logs, we can probably figure out whats happening

[@alexandrebique9566]

Go for it!

[@stevolotschi8037]

if you love Ableton then you will love Bitwig even more.🤩

[@sandrvoxon]

Ableton crashing cuz one of your plugin is corrupt, hold ALT and open the project, then check which plugin making crash. I'm taliking about VST Plugins

[@FurkanTopal]

No, it’s not because of that. Everything is original and updated. Nothing corrupt. Finally after 1,5 months I found out the resource of the problem. It was deriving from Push 3. Yeah, unbelievable but true. I’m still processing this fact.

[@Savert616]

ableton is wonderful

[@nutsosix7930]

you must of updated a plugin in the middle of a project.

[@FurkanTopal]

No?

[@bjamminsincebirth3494]

I don’t have issues with crashing but I’m on MacBook M1. I’ve never tried it on a PC. Bitwig is super similar. I just don’t wanna switch. Yeah I don’t like the look of Bitwig.

[@AlexanderCook87]

There lots of other reasons to use bitwig as well. It's a grew DAW assuming you like orange.

[@FurkanTopal]

Ngl orange is my fav color actually hahah

[@paradoxic1888]

Lol are you really going to switch now that Ableton 12 is coming out? Honestly I use Bitwig and it handles performance much better than Ableton. Once you learn all the different operators it is mind-blowing what you can do. For instance, you can use a Wavetable LFO to modulate the Phase on the Phase4 device to create your own hybrid wavetable synth. Ableton 12 seems to address a lot of the gripes I had with it, but it still doesn't execute it as well as Bitwig. The sample tagging and ability to randomize an entire drum rack is making me envious, but otherwise it's just more of the same that Bitwig already had.

[@FurkanTopal]

I didn't understand your comment. At first you're starting as if switching is a bad idea while Ableton 12 is coming out and then you praise Bitwig. What you wanted to tell here?

[@paradoxic1888]

@@FurkanTopal I'm not trying to convince you to switch. It's ultimately your decision. I'm just stating the good and bad of both and why I prefer Bitwig. I'm just shocked you were considering switching even after Ableton 12 was announced, thought this would cement the decision to stick with Ableton.

[@sound-engineer]

Yİyorsa Cubase projelerini açsın :) Şaka bir yana listeni görünce farkettim hep arada kalmışımdır AMD mi Intel mi diye stüdyo için.

[@sarkany888]

some pirated vst crash is causing the overload. turn off vsts and it will load fine

[@AlchemicalAudio]

This is the easiest solution, by far.

[@FurkanTopal]

Dude when I open Ableton I have 0% ~ 1% cpu usage, my processor is one of the bests in the market. How could it cause "overload"? On the other hand, I got an answer from Ableton, they checked the crash reports and they told me Diva and Raum causes crashes and they wanted me to update them or uninstall/reinstall them. Raum is in the latest version already, Diva works perfect in every other project. And I even tested by adding to a project only Diva and Raum and saved the project, and reopened it and it opened. I think even Ableton themselves cannot detect the problem correctly. Moreover, if the plugin was crashing, it would crash within Bitwig as well. Yes, Bitwig uses sandbox technology but I mean the plugins themselves would crash separately but they all work fine in Bitwig. This is the thing I don't understand really.

[@FurkanTopal]

And on the other hand, turning off the plugins don't benefit me at all. Because it doesn't say which plugin causes the problem. Yes it will open the project but as wounded, shattered, all the features of the plugin as disabled, so automations as well, why would I want to open the project with turning off vsts? I can't see a win here. All they need to do is to give us option to operate third party plugins separately.

[@wasabi333]

Pirated? LOL No. Badly programmed, yes.

[@skrabio]

Been a serious Bitwig user the past year - and for every big win I've found, it always comes with a big loss. The biggest (for me) is that while they give you 100's of ways to edit and modulate, they expect you to build-a-bear what is usually a simple process elsewhere. A m/s eq is a perfect example. You have to use a mid side splitter, then put an eq on each channel. Ymmv, but I've been considering switching to Ableton 12 😅

[@FurkanTopal]

I feel you. I can't say I dived deep into Bitwig but some things are really enemy of my workflow. I wanted to give a sidechained compressor easily, as if we do on Ableton quickly, their dynamic thing is giving you so much option that, it was hard to tame the knobs to bring it to Ableton's simplicity. Also the automation section is way worse than Ableton which is a great minus for me. And that browser... You gotta click that little play button for every goddamn sample. It's not playing by going up and down with arrow keys. And I didn't see also a compensation for CTRL + SHIFT + D or DEL for creating/deleting time in the middle of the arrangement view. Bitwig's overall workflow is way worse than Ableton in my opinion even though they have superior features like multiple clips editing at the same time etc. Or where's the panning bars man? All I see is volume fader. And I didn't even figure out yet how to use return channels here, so these also seems a dealbreaker for me and all we have is pain just right there.

[@theuncrediblehaak]

I agree it's easier to sidechain in Ableton. I just use duckers these days, so I'm not too bothered. You can turn on autoplay when browsing samples, just hit the little speaker icon by the waveform preview. You can also easily insert, delete + duplicate time (shift + backspace to delete, and ctrl + shift + d (yes exactly like ableton) to duplicate. If you want to do this for all tracks make sure to select the time on all the tracks. Easy way to do that is use the select tool and select the time on the top bar with the bar numbers. The panning bars are on the track inspector on the left for the current channel, right above the volume fader, or in the mixer. You can't do it in the little horizontal arranger tracks like in ableton as far as I know, but then again Ableton doesn't have the vertical track inspector/single channel mixer. Not sure what the trouble is with the return channels. They work exactly like in Ableton. You have the send amount in the track inspector on the right, next to the volume fader. Curious about what's better with Ableton's automation? I haven't really used version 11 or newer, so might be something you can do that Bitwig can't. Hope that was somewhat helpful. -Ableton user for 14 years before I switched to Bitwig about 5 years ago. @@FurkanTopal

[@FurkanTopal]

​@@theuncrediblehaak thank you for useful information, I'll try by choosing whole clips later on to insert time. It's relieving Bitwig has that. And yeah I later on also solved fx channels. I'll definitely learn and try to make something sophisticated to use both of them. I'd like to know you really, I sense great amount of info I could get from you and also you seem cool guy. I'm almost always hungry for learning new things. As for Ableton's automations, I'd like to show you. Do you have Discord or something? Let's be friends, hahah. So you can tell me if there's a compensation for these. If you don't prefer then let me try to tell you, I don't know if you had in your time but do you remember the little square points on the edge of clips? In automation view by holding CTRL, you can make it perplexed, flipped, reversed, or you can give fade in - fade outs according to your taste and what I like most that it's not in the different channel as in the Bitwig and when you right click on any devices' knob, it directly opens the automation line in the arrangement view. As I understand, it only "assigns" in Bitwig, then you have to choose automation among the automation lanes in your track channel which is also possible in Ableton but in this case it makes me feel like Ableton has an extra. But I must admit that, when I open Bitwig, it really feels way more faster than Ableton. I don't know exactly why but I feel like there's something superior in Bitwig's engine. When I write notes, it writes faster. When I add clips, it adds faster. It's really appetizing too. That's why I'll learn it too. But I don't want to forget Ableton. When I switched from FL Studio, I lost my muscle memory for that but I don't want it happen with Ableton. I wanna use both and I wanna know EVERYTHING in both. 😀

[@Qubie1]

@@FurkanTopal I've made another comment about some of the issues you guys seem to have, hope it helps somewhat. In short, with the time marker you can insert silence everywhere. There is a sidechaining modulation device which you can quickly put on anything you want. Quick extra tip, if you wnat that to load as default, you can right click any device and save as default with that modulation added. This becomes your new default ini patch.

[@FurkanTopal]

dude thank you so much but it took 1 minute to get that you're talking about Bitwig, lol I was like "why does he tell these things that I already know?" because all same in Ableton except the modulation but at first I thought you're referring the little sidechain buttons or classic quick made sidechaing w compressors anyway glad that it's same in Bitwig@@Qubie1

[@FurkanTopal]

UPDATE about what happened. This is what I wrote to Ableton support at last: "You know what guys, today, finally, after 3 weeks of pain, I solved this issue by myself. I'm not a programmer but I spent time in the log.txt and cfg files. I tried to understand. And I accepted the defeat first because I literally tried everything to save Ableton. It was depressing af, so much that I almost felt like I lost my child. Then uninstalled and reinstalled Ableton. It didn't work first. Then I again uninstalled and this time I deleted all the appdata/roaming/ableton folder and I deleted Ableton folder from my documents as well. Because I had a gut feeling about this wasn't about plugins. If it was, then they would crash in Bitwig as well. After cleaning all the appdata, my preferences etc, after literally starting Ableton from scratch, I opened my last project and FINALLY it worked without giving a crash. I hell don't know what caused the problem still. I just have a theory like, because I had copied my preferences/library from my old computer to new one, maybe while Ableton is working, it was routing my old computer's user name. You know C://users/.... I'm talking about that. This is my theory. I don't know what caused the problem and I don't know what is the exact reason. During this process I couldn't see enough support from Ableton. I wish you could look at the situation more professionally. To be honest, you even need a team to give LIVE REMOTE SUPPORT like Adobe. When you have problem, Adobe workers are connecting to your computer and fixing your issue, so I hope you bring a system like that I hope you also bring this sandbox technology. The solution you first gave me was misleading and I now have come to an understanding that plugins weren't causing any crash. Maybe I could have solved this sooner if I had any clear answer from you guys. So I hope you can use my experience as a feedback and do something about it so that others will not have this pain. Finally my beloved Ableton is back. But you have almost no contribution on that. And I'm displeased with that part. Anyway. I wish you the best."

[@vex-e]

You know, sometimes it's best for the users to figure/solve problems out than to rely on the original builder. DAW users are a lot more crafty in figuring out DAW issues when these companies don't always help out.

[@borwehrclub]

Lordum geri dönün mahvolduk

[@hburakurgay]

Mahvettin suan beni bitwig in sitesine dogru yoldayim :)

[@jxcn]

I have this exact same issue. It drives me insane.

[@FurkanTopal]

Yeah don't ask, it's killing my motivation, my health, my mood. I don't remember myself this much angry for maybe 2 years. I'm constantly feeling anger because of this shit. You're getting professional on a DAW and it becomes your weapon to work but then you can't work because Ableton keeps crashing. And the worst part is we don't know the exact reason. When I check log.txt, it says fatal error, windows exception etc and Ableton can't handle and crashes. Are you on Windows as well?

[@FurkanTopal]

And now I have a stranger problem. After uninstalling and reinstalling, it opened the project but there are sudden cuts and hiss sound coming out of nowhere. Like a sizzling sound interrupts the piano layers I have and this is more mysterious than crash because settings seem fine, fx chain seems fine. I don't understand what's going on.

[@FurkanTopal]

Ok solved that, because I uninstall and reinstalled, some plugins were wanting me to activate them. Jeez.

[@FurkanTopal]

But Ableton's crash stuff keeps staying

[@auralplex]

Ableton has been slipping. They haven’t done anything special in a decade. They never fix anything either. All the annoying things about it are still there, years later.

[@P3X967]

Bitwig developers were once a part of ableton. Maybe this has something to do with bitwig opening ableton sessions..

[@rambacy78]

Its only you ! I have no prob with the latest Ableton..

[@FurkanTopal]

Hahah, it should work for "everyone" if we pay for it. That's why they have a support team, right? Because it may crash any time. Don't speak big. Currently I solved the problem and it works smoothly but I didn't get much support from Ableton's support during this process. And it can happen to anyone, anytime. Your coming here like "It's only you!" is kinda cringe. Dude I didn't claim everyone has this issue. I shared what happened to me.

[@Jaysonjay]

You switch and you set your self back goscknows how many years. Had when live didn't do double screen/monitors bigtwig no point right now.

[@jshstuff]

common bitwig W but this is at the bottom of the list of why someone should switch to bitwig. it's an engineer/sound designer's wet dream.

[@2010freeworld]

Bitwig is a programmer from Ableton who separated from Ableton, and StudioOn from Steinberg.

[@dnalyen]

Go for it

[@defface777]

Ableton 12 is awesome

[@ehuehe6595]

eline sağlık furkan topal bey

[@makwill7719]

try reaper as well

[@oscillatorstorm]

Bitwig just dunked on Ableton so bad 😭

[@bci3937]

BWS is pretty cool....but not the best....its my main daw and a bit better than FL...for me.

[@axelmaldini4218]

Bitwig Studio wins "Best DAW in 2023" end of story folks.

[@ronnieuk2]

Gotta love Bitwig....❤️

[@2ShortNsweet]

Are you using a cracked version of ableton?

[@FurkanTopal]

Nope. Ableton and all the plugins I use are original. We’re still talking about this issue with Ableton support. It’s still not solved yet.

[@blackout2able]

Bitwig is Ableton 20😊

[@FurkanTopal]

😮

[@gossipboynyc9625-VN]

In some ways Bitwig feels like an early Ableton from early 2000's though, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, it only means more things to improve. It's like Ableton from the late 90's but with more modern modular and mixing tools and mid-side, multiband tools - similar to protools a bit. Like a mix of early version of Ableton and Pro tools, maybe a bit of Reason

Welcome to the Bitwig side, bro!