I Played 100 Games Of Dota and League’s HARDEST Champions To See Who’s More Difficult

I tried two of the hardest characters in both Dota and League to see who's harder. I think 100 games is a pretty decent sample size!
Music Used:
America Theme - Medieval (Civilization 6)
The Queen's High Seas (Divinity: Original Sin 2)
Dancing With The Source (Divinity: Original Sin 2)
Gladion Theme (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)
Canada Theme - Atomic (Civilization 6)
Zulu Theme - Atomic (Civilization 6)

[@lostsheep9691]

turbo mode vs ranked matches is a very very different game. The reason why you won 50 match as meepo because most people who plays turbo mode are those people who turn their brain off and just want to relax. The reason why meepo is hard is not his kit nor his skill ceiling (some mouse allow you to insta poof), it is because of the people you play against with. You need to outsmart 5 sweaty people when you play meepo, they will try their hardest best to fuck you up in lane and even camp your jungle. Especially in high divine ranked matches. Azir is a more versatile hero, but he is easier to master than meepo. For me as both a challenger in lol and low immortal in dota 2. The main difference is that, it's easier to carry the game with meepo if you have good a team comp, for azir he can solo carry the game no matter the team comp as long as they're not dogshit and can press buttons during clash

[@thesmallnut8224]

Yeah, its as if he played Azir in URF, there is no comparison between turbo and ranked/normal games

[@nguyenviethoang138]

given that someone's not smurfing, playing meepo is so stressful. bad laning hero, bad starting stat, but a lot of work to do to meet his timing, and if time has passed then meepo is just another tank

[@afn4775]

While I agree that he shouldn't have used turbo for his experiment. I have to disagree with how you described turbo. Turbo is definitely not RELAXING when it is way more brawly and can average out 3 kills per minute (one of my recent turbo games). People are also equally sweaty and somehow want to win even more than if they were playing ranked (the examples you described above about ppl camping jungle or wanting to fuck a weak laning carry also happens in my turbo games).

[@nguyenviethoang138]

@@afn4775 well people can be competitive about wienie size so a hand throwing contest should be more stressful than relaxing

[@albimft]

not reading allat

[@djspyke1000]

As other said, turbo doesnt represent the normal dota at all but i understand why it would be the choice in terms of time consuption. Having said that, is a whole different meta and it negates the snowball meepo can have in a game since everyone get super fast gamechanging items in turbo as is with experience too

[@rowia.builds]

Exactly. Meepo usually wins normal games before any other core comes online. Turbo's increased gold and xp puts Meepo at a disadvantage, and the overall skill level balance in turbo is all over the place. Ranked, where everyone is roughly the same skill and with way less gold/xp will really showcase Meepo.

[@Smylesss]

1:37 lmfao changing the chat settings to all chat so you can get praise from your teammates

[@asmallphd9648]

optimal chat gameplay

[@Acex2ron]

I was gonna trash talk my role opponent who was spamming the Zed laugh the whole game

[@b0ogeym4n_]

Fair​@@Acex2ron

[@Kadgord]

Every one saying, " you shouln't have play turbo" i say: Bro, play chen, he is the real: "Bro this is a MOBA or an RTS" heroe

[@beetroot3211]

Like a few have said, you should've probably picked 2 heroes that hat somewhat similar kits. The closest match to Azir would probably be earth spirit (stone remnants, charge in + kick back + die). For just being complicated, invoker would've been ideal. Also you should've played non-turbo games. You could've still had "100 games" in the title, but just do 50 of each champ. You still played 100 total of the two champs so it wouldn't have been clickbait and the data + conclusion would've been a lot more valuable.

[@Acex2ron]

It would’ve been ideal to play Invoker, but it also would’ve been disingenuous to pick him for this video as I already play him, so I needed to pick a hero that I had very little knowledge on which is kinda hard when you have 6,000 hours in Dota :P And I wanted to do the latter and I did think of structuring the video like that, but from a creator perspective it takes too much time. 50 Azir games already took me almost a week because of IRL commitments (and the fact that I kept getting Master Yi games thanks to the new QP system). But 50 unranked Dota games, which are already longer from a gameplay perspective, with the revamped ban system, spamming a pubstomp hero whom a lot of people despise, who knows how long that would have taken? I guess the video concept is just really hard to execute logistically, so this was me trying my hand at it.

[@beetroot3211]

@@Acex2ron Thanks for your perspective, even with all those restrictions you still made a good and entertaining video. GG

[@32Singder]

Idk if you realised that, haven't seen a clip of this, but if you are playing against counters on meepo, you should keep your main meepo out of vision while using clones to engage in a fight - that way you can blink in and hide them in a megameepo even if they are stunned or silenced edit: oh yeah you do it in a final clip, but that's a very good technique to bait away enemy spells and ruin their positioning

[@jawnlouiseordonia8291]

There is a safer but harder to execute variation of the shuriman shuffle. Its called the revenant shuffle. It requires you to put sand soldier on the enemies' direction, dash to the soldier then let the soldier dash back to the safety of your team while casting ultimate to drag enemies with you on the way back to your team. Theres also a combo where you can cross 2 walls in a single dash, or to cross one wall back and forth to confuse enemies

[@Acex2ron]

I saw a video of that in the Azirmains sub, but I was already finished recording by the time I saw it. Guess I gotta put in another 100 games...

[@enverpasa8567]

@@Acex2ron FYI revenant shuffle is hard enough that its basically not fucking possible to pull it off each time you want it.

[@kelex1298]

Revenant shuffle is not very good because your shuffle distance is halved due to having to use your Q to dash back into your team. In most cases, with only the range of your W, you can only shuffle the frontline, which is not the target you want. Extending the range would require a flash in this case, which is a terrible tradeoff for a technique that may not land. This is why you see Shuriman shuffle used a lot in pro play, but no one does Revenant, not even Chovy. Usage of it requires enemy backline to misposition horribly, and that's just not happening in the highest level of play.

[@arvintob]

I figured the first hurdle Dota Players encounter using Meepo is that they're not used to handling multiple units, most players jumped to dota immediately, players coming from Warcraft 3 though wont find it that hard since having multiple heroes is more or less necessary

[@jeremylakey680]

Maybe invoker would be a better comparison. Just both are mages with high levels of flexibility. Interesting that meepo has a simple strategy. With my many games with others playing him, I never understood his strategic plan.

[@Acex2ron]

"If you can't beat him, join him" is a really good way to learn a hero's counters. And it turns out, it's quite a lot.

[@DS-bx3sm]

I really enjoyed this video. I wouldn't pick Meepo for this kind of challenge, though. While the hero certainly requires a different kind of skill than most heroes, and he has a high learning curve, at the end of the day he's kind of a stat stick beefcake in disguise, as you found out. I think Tinker might be a better choice, although I don't know how he plays in turbo mode. Earth Spirit might be an interesting choice because he has a unique playstyle and bears a lot more similarities to Azir than Meepo does.

[@Acex2ron]

That's actually the craziest thing I discovered for myself in this video. This hero deemed to be too hard for pro play is really just a stat stick right-clicker x5

[@DS-bx3sm]

@@Acex2ron People may say he's "too hard for pro play" but I don't think that really makes any sense. Pros would use him if he was good. He's not played in pro play because he's not strong enough to make up for his many weaknesses.

[@djspyke1000]

​@@Acex2ron but i don't think people say Meepo is the hardest only because of mechanical skills, the difference between the good and bad meepo is optimizing map control and farming patterns with him, when he's snowballing is suicide appearing anywhere in the map.

[@qazwsx6340]

@@Acex2ron most people just don't don't know how to micro. it's not even that hard either, it just takes a lot of practice. meepo is also just ruined by so many popular heroes. It's rarely seen in pro play because it's only ever viable as a last pick in extremely specific circumstances. he's a hero where, as soon as he's picked, he becomes the focal point of both teams, similar to arc warden, tinker, sniper.

[@dark8118]

i would agree to this comment if you also include Chen here

[@E_Clip]

Meepo is more complex than most heroes, or rather he is difficult to control, Chen, Earth Spirit and Io(wisp) fall in this category too, but if we're talking complexity, I'd say Invoker is the most complex and it requires a lot more practice to get the maximum out of the hero.

[@PsychoMachado]

Meepo is harder than invoker. Invoker has a good skill ceiling, but his skill floor isn't that high. You can play invoker and only use 3 or 4 spells and still be effective in helping the team. It's easy to remember the main 3 pure spells and the "rainbow" spell. The hybrids are the hard ones, and if you focus on learning one or two, you're fine. You get Cold Snap for 3 Cold Orbs (Q), EMP for 3 Wind Orbs (W) or Sun Strike for 3 Ember Orbs (E). In a teamfight a learning player won't use Sun Strike since it requires prediction. Deafening Blast is the hybrid spell, and if you learn Meteor, you're probably doing some damage during the fight. If you are worried about doing the proper psell mid fight, have Tornado and Meteor prepared with 3 different orbs active, pop tornado, pop meteor, hit R and pop Deafening Blast. With little practice you can pull this off (I remember doing it back in dota 1 and I'm not an invoker player).

[@user-bi1fw8sd1x]

Play meepo in turbo, you can pretty much always get to lvl 4 without getting shit on the lane bc it comes so fast and enemy midlane does not really have time to pressure you. Playing all pick maybe a bit different.

[@user-bi1fw8sd1x]

And also, in turbo, meepo can just melt the tower like nothing. It's that fast you can win if your enemies lost one fight hahahaha.

[@Acex2ron]

Valid feedback, but rubberbanding in turbo is also a bitch. I lost a game where I went 10-0 up until I died to the enemy Drow, ending my powerspike. My windows of opportunity were so small that I had to do something during that time. If anything, Turbo just has its own meta and I just grew to appreciate the mode, and the people who play it more.

[@user-bi1fw8sd1x]

@@Acex2ron Agree, I am a Turbo enjoyer too. It really has its own meta and tempo heroes are not gonna like it.

[@YayaBunWa]

@@Acex2ronthis is actually what kills meepo in turbo. Supports always having 3+ items to play around, early leads only requiring 1 or 2 kills on farmed players to sublimate the gold lead amongst the enemy team, turbo isn’t really the place to try out or practise ‘timing’ strategies or heroes. And when hitting creeps is nearly less efficient than pewpew’ing heroes, meepo loses his biggest edge over the competition. It’s similar for heroes like Troll Warlord that wanna play around gameplay niches, lel.

[@frantisekzach6057]

You maybe could try some regular games with these champs. Just 4 or 5 to know if there was difference between these gamemods. Also great idea and video.

[@jrbudoybudoy]

Can you try ten ranked games with both of them so we can see how they play out on normal-ish matches? Turbo literally negates Meepo's advantage of being fat quick since everyone who kills well in turbo can match or even exceed his farm.

[@Ry4onia]

Dude, keep it up. Rly like ur vids

[@HeavensBane53]

I actually agree with you on pretty much every aspect of this. I found Azir's combos to be pretty easy to execute, and his decision making and vulnerability to do be the real difficulty factors. Likewise, I found Meepo, despite how mechanically punishing he can be, to have a lot lower skill floor than people think. At lower MMRs you can get by just fine so long as you know how to tab poof and farm efficiently. His skill ceiling is higher than you give him credit for, since his crazy map mobility gives him a lot of options for playing the map and pushing/extending his lead, but even then I feel like there are heroes with higher skill ceilings, and arguably skill floors. invoker of course comes to mind, and with the changes to his orbs his theoretical skill ceiling is absurdly high, but in his case I think his skill floor is a lot lower than people think (quas wex is pretty easy to execute on competently enough to get by while you learn the hero's intricacies). Personally the hero I found to have the highest combined skill floor and ceiling is Morphilng. Also I appreciate your note at the end about how this isn't a scientifically sound experiement, or should be taken as a definitive answer to the question. A lot of people want a definitive answer, whether there is one to be had or not, and I'm glad to see you took this as more just a fun idea for a video rather than falling into the trap of trying to use it to answer a question.

[@Acex2ron]

Agree on Invoker, Quas-Wex is such a braindead playstyle (that also counters Meepo), but in many games it's also the more effective one because of the fact that nobody likes to pick stuns and control. And thanks for acknowleding the end message. There's just absolutely no way that a single person can definitely conclude that one hero is harder than another because even though the sample size of 100 games is sizable, I'm still just one player.

[@yuricecconi561]

Vulnerability? I'd have to disagree with you on that. Azir's W-E-Q combo can take him through half the lane if done properly, so it's quite easy to get out from a bad situation if you have Q and E up. Furthermore, even just W-E is often enough to get you out of a bad situation, so it's not like you're sacrificing a lot if you use Q for poke. I would honestly call Azir a pretty safe midlaner, especially into melees who don't have the range to fight back when you poke them.

[@cryptomudraa]

Good vid !

[@DDK69]

divinity ost goes hard

[@MattHatter360]

I always love watching videos that compare League and Dota. I am always curious to know more about Dota since I only played that game a little.

[@smashingskull5651]

Great video! I'm really happy to see you play my main hero, meepo. My one contradiction with your video is that you said that meepo plays himself. Due to the fact that the whole dota 2 roster counters him, you gotta have a lot more micro management and learn much more complex tricks then only blink poof and chaining of nets. Still great video, hope you make more like this soon!

[@Acex2ron]

Part of the reason why I picked Meepo for this video was because I wanted to highlight to people outside of Dota that such a unique hero exists! I had a blast playing and learning him, and I'm glad I can at least kind of utilize him now--and more importantly, know better how to counter him

[@PhuongTran-hm4dy]

Good! now can you please play invoker and hwei and compare these two complex hero/champion?

[@PsychoMachado]

Thing with Meepo is that when he enters the fight, you need to get him out fast or he quickly gets out of control. On theMagnus game, he had to hold a very powerful ultimate just for one guy because if he didn't, you would walk over his team. One trick good Meepo players have is using Poof on the main meepo and using Blink Dagger to get to the backline, having all 5 Meepos instantly showing up on the enemy support with a 500+ damage burst poof and quickly smacking him down. Usually, meepo is a coin flip. It's either going to be REALLY good or he will tank the team.

[@vcp009]

Turbo isnt dota. But I respect and appreciate your effort.

[@pssct]

the most troublesome aspect of playing meepo is tempo, you need to outfarm every other hero by a mile during mid game and you can't grasp it in turbos

[@sprinklesandtrumpettoots7151]

Ooh lovely video! I love seeing this sort of unbiased analysis. I would love to see a hooker comparison between like Pudge and Blitzcrank.

[@PotatoSofi]

1:35 - INSTANTLY turns on All chat XD

[@hojackborseman7638]

This is how league looks in 2024??? Lmaoo

[@Lastofhiskind_]

Ikr even mobile legends looks better than this.

[@Youmu_Konpaku_]

Now play 25 more unranked meepo games and enjoy the 5-20

[@Monte_Carlo451]

That shuffle is just magnus rp + skewer or just skewer. It is more menacing cause it acts like a hook that can drag 2 or more units while letting you return to a safe space

[@gambaru55]

yeah the big different is azir deal lot of damage. is like have rp with laguna blade damage

[@PsychoMachado]

@@gambaru55 anything in league deal a lot of damage because everything scales up either with AD or AP, while in Dota most spells don't scale

[@TheJim9191]

Kinda hard to draw many conclusions from turbo. I would also say that there are definitely heroes with a much higher skill ceiling than meepo, like invoker and earth spirit.

[@thanhlengoc3805]

For dota turbo, the issue is not entirely about player being chill. Dota is a completely different game when you dial everything x2: tower die faster, more gold, more xp. I think the better measure would have been 50 normal dota games.

[@claryalbertadhikary6600]

SOrry if I sound salty. I am a Dota 2 Veteran who is now an all time League player. That dig spell you mentioned makes Meepo's risk disappear completely... It wasn't there for the whole time I played Dota 2. Not to mention that Mega Meepo thingy.. that also is new... again disappearing the risk of Meepo completely. Before, Aghanim would just give ONE extra Meepo to control. and as you said.. his power spikes are when his ult levels up. You can guess the usefulness of the Meepo Aghanim back then. DAMN. I haven't watched the full vid yet btw. Great Video and dedication btw. Keep it up. Love your videos.

[@99jei63]

Playing Meepo in Turbo is a mistake. Turbo is usually played if you want fast games, fun, chill, and no heavy thinking games. So that's why it's less coordinated than a rank game. Even the positions most of the times aren't followed. Meepo's first ult is level 4, compared the others at 6. Since it's Turbo, that difference is amplified since there is a boost in exp. That's a buff for Meepo if you play Turbo.

[@Lunch0guy]

At the same time though, if you fail to win extremely fast on Meepo, it's easier for the enemy to get strong enough to counter you and turn the tide. In normal games, there is a bit of a larger window where Meepo is dominant and can secure the throne.

[@TSAndreea]

I still dont know why everyone talks about meepo Like for real in dota we have Chen who can take 4 jungle creeps and each creep having atleast 1 ability Or Lone druid who can build 12 items Or even techies who still is master of mental manipulation

[@xenotyphon]

Try Tinker and Invoker. I heard that a League pro also tried those 2 alongside Meepos since this trio was once considered Dota's hardest. Iirc, he did well with Meepo and Invoker but struggled to fully exploit Tinker.

[@RubyMikotoGaming]

you should do this but comparing champion counterpart on dota and lol. like hwei and invoker or yumi and io or tarik. I like your video because you actually play both game and not just do research for the other game, good jobs.

[@Dragonmist19X]

Seeing Yi, Garen, and Azir in champion mastery is so easy. The two champs widely considered to have the lowest skill floor next to the one with the highest.

[@yasaitheshobji]

Quality content

[@Sayuameangkis]

That O Canada in the end threw me off.

[@Gamorou]

I really don't know why, but Meepo was my first hero that I tried on Dota, and the best one for me, in 16 games I had 70%+ winrate, but then after hearing from everyone how hard he is to play, I started to fear playing him even if I did well, and it has been years since I played him

[@scourge758]

I wouldn't consider Meepo as a difficult hero. His skills are really straight forward: a skill-shot net that sets enemies in place; skill that allows one Meepo to teleport to another and deal damage in a small radius around; a passive that deals bonus damage and heals every Meepo but the one who dealt damage; and an additional hero to control. All you have to do to get good at Meepo is to learn how to manage multiple units at once. Heroes like Earth Spirit and Invoker require not only knowing how your own skills work (Invoker has 13 of them and ES's skills has infinite uses especially with Agh's) but what enemy skills do, how they interact, what to do one the map, etc. Comparing it to Meepo's game plan "get ahead of enemy team in gold and exp cuz ur Meepo duh" is just simply wrong. Like for example did you know that Voker's Tornado is hard dispel? Or that ES's skills (except Rolling boulder) debuff every enemy under Magnetize effect if the Remnant used to perform them prolonged the duration of Magnetize? Not even mentioning that almost every of their spells are skill-shots when Meepo just has two passives and two easy to understand abilities. I'm not calling him easy but he is not difficult either. Sorry for the butthurt.

[@rowia.builds]

Meepo is extremely simple but mechanically complex.

[@Lunch0guy]

Microing multiple units is just a skills that every other hero does not require to the same level needed for Meepo. There are some heroes like Visage and Lone Druid that have important summons, but if your bear or familiars die, it doesn't kill your main hero as well. I agree that Meepo is not really the best choice for this type of video (personally I would have opted for Chen, if microing multiple units is a desired element), but it's not a bad choice at all.

[@ikthranithul6000]

Morph, Chen and Invoker are harder heroes than Meepo. Morph requires an absurd understanding of Dota to play correctly due to his stat shift and ult allowing you to become any hero on the opposing team, Chen requires way more micro than Meepo and ups the tempo of the game 10 fold while utilizing about a 10th of the gold Meepo does and Invoker requires the most mechanical skill of any hero in the game, having 10 spells and most of them being skill shots. Meepo is a very straightforward hero compared to those 3 whos skill ceilings are in the heavens compared to Meepo

[@GiulianoVenturo]

some ppl already point it out but yeah turbo is really different. Is like saying I will try the hardest champs on league but in aram... and some how explain it would "similar" in a normal match. For context I play both league and dota, so yeah in turbo anyone can get items fast and level too. Meepo in normal matches even if you're just an avg meepo player you would be always ahead because you farm jg and lane and also roam. I also understand why you play turbo, I mean dota matches always goes around 35 to 45 min. League pretty much goes around 20min because of the ff mechanic. But still pretty good video, I have 3k hours in dota and I probably played meepo 5 times max I think

[@Kayledon777]

I feel like meepo invoker and arc are all on the same tier but for different reasons

[@GearDiego23]

That Azir guy sounds just like any of the 4 spirit brothers from dota 2 hahaha Expected something more difficult.

[@PsychoMachado]

closer to Earth than any other spirit. Storm, Ember and Void are about dashing around and avoiding stuff, while Earth is about dashing in.

[@yuricecconi561]

Azir isn't really the most difficult champ in league. He's very safe in the early game due to his kilometre long dash and unless you try the forbidden techs his micro isn't super difficult. In general, Azir is similar to what Dota 2 players would call a Zoo hero (at least he's league's version of it). He requires you to learn how to play the game in a different way, so most people call him a high skill floor champion. In a teamfight, the most difficult thing to learn for an azir is how to manage the variety of options you have available, because there are so many options for Azir at any given time. I would say Azir is the highest skill ceiling champ of league, not really the highest skill floor, there are champs with much harder micro and there are champs that have more divergent playstyles. In general, league champs don't have high skill floors, although some have near infinite micro skill ceiling.

[@xxEchoDecayxx]

*HONEY WAKE UP* New video is out

[@benediktwirtz6555]

If you think azir has the best attack animation you havent seen gragas crit animation ^^

[@yy-ds]

turbo is a no no bro, meepo gameplay is so dif in normal/ranked games

[@azarrann4521]

How close were you considering Invoker or Arc Warden over meepo?

[@Acex2ron]

The thing I, as a player, am already familiar with how to play both heroes, so I needed someone whom I legitimately never touched in my 10+ years playing the game. Thus, Meepo was the choice. But then, there are just too many variables that this video ended up being a failure of a comparison lmao

[@eprjct]

Azir is hard all because of pro play. He is nerfed every single patch since release because he's constantly being played by the most skilled player in the world. Although Meepo is a hard champion, he does not suffer from this constant attention due to pro play. I enjoyed the dedication and comparison though.

[@Qthe22]

skill ceiling for meepo is not difficult if you've played RTS games and valve made it easier by giving him aghs/shard to save his individual meepos at moments notice, tinker(pre rework rest in piece) was one of the highest apm heroes in the game, and pre rework invoker because you wanted to triple wex pre cast of abilities for cdr or triple exort for the damage output which only added difficulty to them, i'd say the 4 top hardest heroes in Dota (i'm not that familiar w leagues roster rn) would be meepo invoker earth spirit tinker and i don't find meepo hard to play bc in the games i did play him in the past i had roughly 70% winrate through like 30 games just from playing rts games and having practiced him before (another sidenote: aoe cc/damage is not the best counter t meepo because single target dpsing down one clone just kills entire hero)

[@greedisbad9890]

I think you underselling how different turbo mode is compared to quick play is, you can get end game item wich usually in the 45-50 minutes item usually already got purchased at 25 minutes in turbo and considering meepo is all about timing of the item thats just unfair comparison Mechanically azir is harder but its easier to get value as azir, meepo is easier (small gap) but way harder to get value from it

[@joaolucas6871]

I do believe that Gangplank is way harder.

[@heyimj662]

As a Warcraft player, controlling 5 units at once is pretty easy

[@KitsuneFaroe]

But controling 5 units with a synergistic spell at once and preventing all of them from dying against "broken" heroes that will focus on killing you, IS hard. Meepo is esentially a Meele Creep unless you play him well.

[@Lastofhiskind_]

I played warcraft 3 as well. But it's been 8 years playing that game. 😞

[@asyfer729]

I played all strategy game warcraft, starcraft,ra and such but still anyone cna control those 5 unit but it about controlling them while every sec count. You miss position and 1 meepo get caught then next 4sec your dead cause that 1 meepo got burst to death in 4sec without able to do anything.

[@gambaru55]

yeah the different is how item/ability work in dota 2. while in league item only giving you more and more power with your ability have scaling base on item. dota didn't have that. that why carry in dota is more important than in league when you cant end the enemy fast enough enemy carry would scaling damage and magic damage would fall off really hard. while in league mage can scale with item so late game you also scale as item build up

[@gambaru55]

also meepo scaling more effective in all pick than turbo cause enemy also scaling faster than normal. same as alch wr and other that scaling early really fast but fall off hard when match goes to late game

[@hoangvulehuy151]

quick play lol still have the same economy while turbo dota is everyone get more money and exp than they should, like in normal draft, you pick crystal maiden and start to build carry item then you got 9 report and a lost game in the match history, in turbo you do the same and it worked quite well because of the lv20 free 200 atk speed talent and the amount of gold that you will never have in a normal draft game

[@cursedone1-nt9lz]

I think you barely scratched the edge of what meepo can do, saying he has a shockingly low skill ceiling is pretty naive. There is only 1-2 professional players who are good enough at meepo to play him professionally. Very few high immortal players in dota can even play him at a divine level. Reality is unless you are playing in higher mmr you can pubstomp with meepo as people don't have a great idea of how to play vs meepo. Also turbo removes so much from the meepo gameplay. He relies heavily on rotating early and punishing a lack of rotations from the enemy mid. Without the actual pacing of normal matches changes that fully.

[@Acex2ron]

Yknow this is a fair assessment. My argument though is that I’m already playing him at a good enough level to win casual games just by doing his basic combos, whereas I feel that my Azir gameplay still leaves much to be desired. I think I should have clarified what a “harder” character is, which in this case, who I find to be more difficult to perform consistently with.

[@nguyenviethoang138]

@@Acex2ron oh man you have to play non turbo to tell if you can properly play meepo. whats the point playing a macro+micro managing hero in a mode that people turn off brain and throw fists

[@sandz000]

meepo skill ceiling is too high, he didnt even saw it after 100 games.

[@nguyenviethoang138]

@@sandz000 mechanically meepo isnt that hard, but dota isnt a game for those people. Look at RTZ, a genius in laning phase but he isnt as successful as some with lower skill but better in discipline and macro managment. Prime example from the past: Fear, Loda, ana and many more

[@E_S802]

Divinity original sin 2 soundtrack in background

[@JaketheEmpoleon]

Very cool video! (Sorry btw my comment pushes the number of comments from 69 to 70)

[@Coram.Deo.]

Turbo and normal matches are way different tho :/

[@bohanxu6125]

I have to say that MICRO-WISE league is so much harder than dota on average, and it is not even close. I played dota 1 from 2006 to 2015-ish. I played league from 2016 to 2021-ish. I played pretty much every champions in dota. I was a druid main at some point, and I have always been a meepo main (with RTS background). I rarely played invoker because my custome keybind doesn't work well with invoker. MICRO-WISE league is so much harder than dota on average Dota has on average around 3 abilities. league has 4+2+1 abilities (the +1 is because many abilities has multiple activation like riven q or zed w). Most abilities in dota are point and click. Very few abilities in league are point and click. Most league abilities are either abilities with timings... or skill shots that are very hard to land if you don't do it right. In contrast, skill shots in dota like windwalker r, firelady's d, or ES f, or VS w...they are so easy to land that you actually can't miss them. Not to mention, stuns from VS, ES, Lion, Steleton King, are all point and click.... Point and click stun almost doesn't exist in league. Again, league have very few point and click abilities in general. League abilities also have more interactions, like zed w and r with q and e. Riven e and w, q and w. Ahri r and q and e, Leblec, r and all her abilities, q and all her abilities. All ryze abilities, and all Azir's abilities. Dota champion abilities has much less interaction. Dota abilities only has combo, but not complex interaction like the ones I mentioned above for league. The pace of a micro-battle in league is like 2 times or 3 times faster than a micro-battle in dota. Just look up highlight of zed... or some random tornament hightlight. The micro-battle outplays in league are often hard to understand in real time. You have to slow down the clip to 0.25 speed to see what is really happening. In comparison, outplays in dota are much simpler and look like slow-mo.

[@user-kx1uf2jk3g]

As dota 2 player, I would disagree with

[@bohanxu6125]

​@@user-kx1uf2jk3g First, which game is more difficult in what aspect, is fundamentally not important. I'm not trying to downtalk either game. However, what bothers me is that many elitists dota player claim league is much easier which is so far from the truth.. at least for micros. I don't care about which game is harder. I care about not lying. "Playing Dota for 6 years, and I have to tell that AoE is much easier" AoE in dota is mostly easy. AoE in league is mostly hard. windwalker r, firelday's d, or ES f, or VS w, lion q, are very easy to land... firelady's stun and TS stun are harder. Those hard AoE abilities in dota are the average AoE difficulty in league, like xerath q w e, vairus q w, syndra q w e, orienna q w e r, rye... I think this is because champion in league moves like 50% faster than in dota. (and this is on top of that there are way more skill shot in league) Pudge hook is difficult because it only attach on the first target... but in league there are so many such abilities, bliz hook, tresh hook, naut hook, morg q, lux q, ez q, renata q.... again, the high skill abilities in dota, is mid skill abilities in league. "Almost every point and click ability is dodgeble in some way. Most of them absolutely nullifying themselves against Linken's sphere" Well... present of nullifying mechanics doesn't make point and click harder... Also league also has banchee veil and edge of night that is the equivalent of linken's sphere. Not to mention many movement skills are used to dodge non-point-and-click stun. Using movement and movement abilities to dodge stun (common in league) is much more skillful. "Also, point and click stuns you mentioned. They are not piercing BKB" Point and click stun is easy, and BKB is easy. The existence of BKB doesn't make point and click stn any harder. funny you mentioned BKB. BKB is so brain dead compared to quicksilver sash and cleanse in league. Dota carry literally just go in and press BKB and ignore more than 90% of crowd control. You can optimize your play by using BKB to dodge abilities, but the risk-reward ratio is pretty small and even pros often just press BKB preemptively. BKB is so brained dead compared to league's quicksilver and cleanse where the player needs to timely react to the stun, and such reaction will mess up your orb-move and spell combo unless you are skillful. " Also Dota 1 and 2 have clickable items. 4/6 slots in average game are clickable" League also have clickables. League probably has on aveage 2 active items compared to dota with 4 (heal, the ability-cast-stacking healing wand, BKB+illusion axe or blink knife+force staff) 2+4 or even 2+5 is still less than 4+2+1+2... not to mention, cooldown in league is much shorter and one has to keep the cooldown rotation in mind, while dota player mostly just need to consider one spell rotation in one fight... rarely two rotations. League players needs to consider at least two rotation in most fights... often 3 4 5 rotations. Not to mention, cooldown estimation is hard in league due to the variability of cool down reduction items. And again... there are other big factors like speed of micro-battle is league is 2 times or 3 times faster than dota. Again, just youtube search Zed montage and you will realize you need to slow down the replay by 4 times and you still barely see what is going on. You can also look up last year lol world champion highlight. You can get an impression how skillful and fast the micros are in league. Then you look up last year's dota TI hightlight... and you will see how slow dota game plays are... and how few things players do in dota micro-battle in contrast to how many things players do in league micro-battles. It is really not even close....

[@boartank]

My schoolmate got a wrist and knuckle injury maining Meepo and Tinker. APM go stupid

[@boldisordorin9010]

I would argue hardest champ in lol is kalista but azir is a totally fair contender

[@RealRangerix]

i think the hardest is chen in dota, you need good micro skill with diffrent creep or invo either 2 of that

[@gustavmeier1953]

Not gonna lie i trough the meepo is harder to play as its multiple champs at once but on the other hand i was like why azir what about riven yasou or gankplank

[@CosmosTechnician]

nice vid but flash goes on f

[@Acex2ron]

>:(

[@LordofPotatos]

How about Invoker vs Hwei?

[@Hellothere-ss4jq]

Invoker has more options but would be instantly popped in Lol because he would be too slow compared to other characters trying to burst him. Hwei is more responsive Invoker, less options but can keep pace with League's fight dynamics. As far as I can tell Hwei would work fine in Dota except he kinda sucks at farming jungle camps so pushing a mid game advantage in Dota would be hard for him...kinda like Grimstroke who I like but I realised this weakness playing against bots

[@ahlannoursencio4722]

i play lol, and there's no way i can play meepo even in the lowest skill bracket

[@keyjiiiii]

14:16 akali exhibiting pinoy pride

[@mochammadfuadhakim7731]

turbo does not count as proper match its just place for people to be free and experiment with build or combo or just place to relax , try normal match i don`t ask for high rangked game just normal one

[@N008ST3R]

better if u played 50 ranked games then 100 turbo

[@marvcollins7842]

You would've found Meepo more difficult if he wasn't overpowered as fuck and an absolute game balance abomination

[@Acex2ron]

To think that he was actually stronger in previous patches!

[@manuelquerochang2275]

I was hoping to see invoker

[@Silas_Games]

Really like your video and this content. Keep up the good work! However, I think Turbo games are always a very poor representation of a Dota game.

[@ii-xz9ui]

Nidalee jungle is the hardest League champ imo

[@ballislyf2306]

Are you filipino?

[@astral_bulbash843]

Chen is the hardest hero in dota.

[@QverSoul]

before I watch more. Im at 17 seconds in. Im a league player and never played dota. The fact you just said "you have to play 5 "champions" at once AND if one dies they all die. I already know Meepo is 20x harder then azir. I will edit if my prediction is true. Edit: After watching I feel like Azir is harder in terms of micro. The ability to use your champions mechanics effectively. Meanwhile, Meepo (dota players can tell me if I'm wrong, going off league knowledge) is hard too but not as mechanically challenging. However Meepo seems WAY harder in terms of macro and decision making. Just watching the games makes my brain short circuit. Before you get 3 meepos it does seem like its manageable.

[@ginopiratino8793]

Mate, what about a video on scriptwriting? (Maybe on another channel to not ruine the audience)

[@quentinmay1915]

Play nidalee if you want play an hard champ, azir is just an average one, from a all around master

[@LonelyDayDreaming]

Actually you are so wrong about me.. I have over 8k games on meepo in dota 1 and +2k in dota 2 in my total accounts and Im not an low mmr peak 8k but tbh everything you said about meepo being bad against all aoe spells and aoe control is total wrong meepo rely on your skill which means you have to find a way to counter their abilities against heroes like magnus enigma and big lock downs you must buy sustain items not aghs skadi butterfly even heart if needed but that like 5th choice against heroes like drow you can play the game a different way instead of hunting drow instead, most people think meepo is a gigachad who only go and kill their pos 1 which is wrong you can rat as meepo make pressure and split push the whole game and theres like a lot of builds for meepo which you didnt mention but as I said this hero is more about skill not about matchups you can watch a lot of good meepo players playing against 5 counters and not even feeding a 1 kill you can watch meeposki he is good meepo and make a lot of guides about the hero and how to play matchups or you can search pro players replays in d2pt, also dont want to mention meepo before the diffusal nerf :D it was the highest winrate months ago with 62% ( in pro dota and 8k+ mmr )

[@LonelyDayDreaming]

also forget to mention its turbo which means everyone get their powerspike early too which makes meepo ulti is useless

[@jacktgamimtidehunter4233]

buen video pero el modo turbo es cualquier cosa menos dota. recomeindo jugar partidas normales a los nuevos turbo te malacostumbra.

[@Micronux-Attack]

these games needs to a strong computer and a good GPU, take care of your computer😂🤣

[@Pavidota]

Other than the obvious part (you playing meepo in turbo for whatever reason, but didn't play azir in urf, leading to the actual one part of meepo that rquires thought (timing) being irrelevant) Meepo is so incredibly fucking dumb in 2024 dota, dig and megameepo bypasses the need for micro and meepo isn't really the micro intensive hero he once was anymore, yet still harder than league champs for obvious reasons. Azir is super versatile but he is infinitely easier to master than meepo and matchups are largely irrelevant in league compared to dota. For reference I was rank 400 in dota 2~ years ago before I stopped playing, now rank 1500 casually playing from time to time, played a single season of league (last one) and got to diamond and then never touched the game again

[@henrikswanstrom9218]

The skill ceiling of Meepo is way higher than Azir. I would say Meepo has a higher skillfloor but is easier to execute when you're intermediate since you're able to do what you just did, just go rightclick items and try ending the game. Compared to this, Azir is way more mechanical and you can't really play an "easy" playstyle and get away with it. Tank Azir kinda works the same but it's nowhere as easy as Meepo since playing Azir is more punishing while Meepo is one of the tankiest and hardest to bring down heroes in Dota. But playing Meepo at the highest skillevel seemingly has an infinite ceiling while Azir kinda caps out due to how more complex Dota is compared to League. The difficulty of Azir is strictly mechanical and knowledgebased with matchups which aren't too hard to grasp. The real difficulty in Meepo relies in his macro potential and ability to play and choke out the entire map. If you actually know how to play Meepo you literally can be everywhere and secure skirmishes through powerplays to snowball the game. You're able to have complete runecontrol, insane farmadvantage due to multistacking camps and just have infinite presence on the map. Meanwhile, when you're playing Azir it's pretty much as piloting most other champs, just with some added more depth to his mechanics. I saw an interesting video talking about the barriers of entry to League for new players recently. In it they talked about Lee Sin and how he used to be hailed as one of the most difficult and mechanical champions with his infamous Insec combo. When it first was displayed in pro play by Insec people were perplexed by the execution and high level of mechanics needed to execute such a play. But they went on how that was in the past and how performing things like the Insec is a basic Lee Sin staple now and you even see people in Gold execute it properly. It's kinda the same with Azir. His difficulty lies in his champion mechanics but even at lower Elo you will find people execute him very well. When you watch a low Masters Azir vs Faker playing Azir there's not really that much different in the playstyle and execution other than Faker being a way better League player with a more fundamental grasp of the game. They're executing the champion in the same way, performing the same combos and kinda doing the same thing. The main difference is that a player like Faker is much better at understanding powerspikes, matchups, has general better awareness and is able to better find opportunities for plays. In other words, general things that you learn as you get better at the game. Meanwhile if you watch a low immortal Meepo and some top 100 Meepo spammer replays they're literally playing entirely different games and you will feel it if you're in one of those games yourself. The difference in execution between these two players is lightyears apart compared to a good and an expert Azir. High level Dota streamers like Qojqiva can play Meepo but don't because they say the hero is too exhausting to play. If you want to play him optimally, you need to constantly be focused. You can't really autopilot the hero since every minute and second of the game has it's own timing and thing you can do on the map. Meanwhile, Azir can very much be autopiloted once your mechanics become habitual. This is the reason why Azir sees ALOT of proplay while Meepo sees very ittle. Both characters are very strong. But Meepo is just too difficult to execute with at the highest level so most pro teams stay away from it since he's very risky to play. Meanwhile, Azir is a very safe and firstpickable mid champ.

[@nikolaitodorov4349]

This is something I discovered years ago while playing very actively both games - League is generally a "simpler" game, because almost everything can be at one point more or less automated - skill order, build, combo, etc. This is why someone can be considered as OTP with like 300-400games on a hero. For comparison, 300-400 games give you only some level of mechanical comfortability on a Dota hero, and at that point you can start focusing more on actual gameplay for the hero (unless you are very, very good at the game and grasp things quicker).

[@NiagaraErie]

I liked this but it seemed like the two heroes aren’t comparable in their difficulty. Meepo’s difficulty is just a basis of how hard he is to control and micro while Azir seems more about strategy and high risk decision making. I think something like Shadow Fiend is more in the same level that way.

[@nguyenviethoang138]

i disagree, managing meepo, especially in high rank is so fucking stressful. if i pick early there's good chance that enemy will pich leshrac, support with easy stun and make my lane and jungle miserable. meepo is only good in a very few hands

[@psychokuca302]

As a league player, i wont say Azir is *the hardest*. He isnt easy,for sure, but there are harder champs in league in my opinion. On Azir just a game knowledge can carry you a long way, where on some champs even with good game knowldege it will be much harder to get wins. Good vid nonetheless

[@Acex2ron]

You know that's true. Who the hardest champion in League is an ongoing debate on its own, and Azir's spot could have easily been taken by Riven, Nidalee, or Aphelios or someone else who's incredibly challenging that just doesn't come to mind right now.

[@psychokuca302]

@@Acex2ron When i was writing a comment i was actually thinking about riven. Nida,from my experience isnt that hard(i struggle wiht elise much more than with nida) and aphelios is bloated by his kit and just adc role in solo Q. So yeah,there are lots of hard champs, but for adifferent reasons and picking one is almost impossible. ANd now i wonder,would something like meepo work in league,when balanced for league? Looks like fun champ to master

[@xolotltolox7626]

@@Acex2ron riven is insanely braindead, it is literally just fast q and you've mastered the champion

[@Miziru]

@@psychokuca302 riven player spotted

[@psychokuca302]

@@Miziru Nope, for my amost 900lvls of league acc i think i have rivan at rank4? Demonic Foxy#Demon if you curious

[@monstermilk6092]

I don't think comparing these champions in this way really does either of them justice. The amount of overlap they have basically boils down to "this is a character you can play in a MOBA". I think maybe Master Yi would have been a better comparison due to the intense feast or famine nature, both being melee, and both being hard countered by hard cc.

[@Acex2ron]

Fair point! Though it would be weird to use Yi in this video because of the perceived simplicity of his kit (which isn't actually the case, patience in holding alpha and utilzing W auto reset are really important when playing Yi)

[@goaway7904]

meepo isnt hard anymore

[@carlososorno]

With all respect, u dont need a brain to play lol.

[@asunasenpai143]

Aphelios is much harder to use than Azir 🤣

[@mrzima723]

Azir isn't Hard imo. But I guess people still think he is the hardest kek

[@Acex2ron]

Honestly, it's an ongoing debate. Azir could have been replaced by Riven, Aphelios, or Nidalee, but I ended up going with him because I also just wanted to add him to my midlane champ pool, also because Riven is just dogshit right now. Who would you have selected?

[@The_UnFrgven]

With over 3k games on meepo, I kinda got disappointed :( i mean your were right in most cases, but calling the counters and playstyle and being in turbo hurt my feeings 🤣 meepo’s hard game comes from out smarting not only your enemies but also your teammates, u need all the farm, u need stacks, u are stacking for yourself too, u are denying hard with 2 meepo, u are outscaling everyone since you gain bonus XP (which was surprising that no one has talked about it in the comments!! Cause its the most important trait in my opinion) then after all these, if u dont hit your 20 min timings and control the enemy’s side map, while surviving every gank and fight, u are useless! The fact is, picking meepo puts a marker on the map! Literally every one will be looking at you! If u mess up, your teammates will flame! If u do good the enemy will spam gank you! Like even picking the hero, starts a mini game of which team cares about meepo more! Its kinda a selfish hero! All for one. Also controling every single meepo to the point of u are in control of everything thats happening around u is the hardest part! (Although a good team that works with u is also pretty damn hard) in turbo everyone are just a kill or shutdown away from scaling up! But in normal-ranked, a good meepo cab even be 8-9 lvls above others! About counters too, there are so many ways of going into itemization and game styles that to me, it means meepo has no counter! Although in pro plays its a mistake to go meepo, since if they focus u down, u will leech the extra xp from your team and basically shutting one hero down, shuts down the whole team, but if blind picked last without contest, u are just rolling! Thank you for listening to my ted talk 🤣

[@sickofseeingjustsomeguywit8168]

Bro you played meepo in Turbo games? 🤦‍♂️ That's why most of what you said is outdated info. Meepo is a really good scaling hero All the heroes you mentioned that counter meepo don't counter him(except Magnus). Meepo is trash in Turbo cause everyone scales differently in Turbo. Meepo is a very good hero even in late game cause he hits major power spikes all the way upto level 30. You mentioned just half the amount of stuff you can do on him. 1600 meepo games here.