I used a split keyboard for 7 days... (Lily58)

[@Anita95_original]

I got RSI in my right (mouse) hand about 1995, I switched to a trackball and it took over ten years before I could use a mouse again (only short times, mostly for gaming, but for work the RSI always tended to come back). I switched to a split keyboard, as I recall, 1999, and I think it took many years before I could find another split keyboard. It REALLY was very helpful, keeping the trackball inbetween the two keyboard halves was (and still is) very convinient. It is not easy to switch between keyboard styles, but you get used to handle normal keybaords now and then, and always saying "ahhh, home!" when returning to the split keyboard...

[@Dyils]

But... you didn't even try to use the correct hand position. Pinky is for Q,A and Z. There's a reason those keys are much lower (or closer to the front) than the rest. They're meant for your shorter pinky. Look how awkward it looks in your own footage. Looks like you're hyper straining your hand and spreading it out like a claw. You're still levitating the pinky over the modifiers like you're gaming and your other 3 fingers are speading like crazy to cover for your missing pinky. No wonder you'd get fatigue. Home row is ASDF and HJKL, that's where your 4 fingers on each hand are supposed to be. And once you get used to that, your hands will be much more relaxed and your typing speed will increase.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

yeah its a bad habit of mine, as i said in the video i grew up gaming with fps games so i just naturally found myself resting my fingers on wasd instead of home rows 😭

[@Dyils]

@@itsjohnmavrick I have the same problem. I am even thinking of switching from WASD to ESDF because the column stagger on my keyboard matches my finger lengths more naturally there. But it's a good habit to develop even on a standard keyboard to rest on ASDF.

[@dwarfbard]

My hands started to hurt even watching him using the standard keyboard. The hyper straining on both of them just looked like it would just lead to serious wrist injury over the years. Ergo keyboards aren't going to help when the original posture is already bad. Got to get out of the bad habits BEFORE buying a multiple hundred dollar keyboards.

[@shrugalic]

@@DyilsESDF is definitely the way to go on ortholinear and especially columnar staggered keyboards. Takes a few extra minutes to configure each game, but it's so much more comfortable. I've been using such keyboards for 15 years, and for gaming a split version is ideal, because you can move the right half away to bring in the mouse closer, and put any actions that were on the right keyboard half to another key or layer on the left keyboard half, with a left thumb key as layer switch on hold.

[@shrugalic]

Yeah, there was lots of things to fix, such as pressing Y with the middle finger, thus moving the whole hand. I'd suggest focusing on proper technique and accuracy, not speed. Speed will come automatically with time. Increased comfort should come sooner, and is worth a lot in my book. (Software engineer, been using such keyboards for 15 years, soon after switching the physical keyboard I also switched layout, to Colemak)

[@BlakeRogersNS]

Literally just made the switch to a split columnar layout 2 days ago. Definitely highlights your "bad typing" habits... videos like this keep me hopeful to hit my normal wpm again. First day was typing 15 wpm from 85 that I normally did with my normal keyboard. I still think it's crazy that you can hit those speeds without using your pinky! Super impressive, thanks for posting.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

im sure with consistent practice youll get back up there as well ;) and yeah, i still dont use my pinky to this day 😭 glad you enjoyed the video !

[@jeramusgriffin]

I'm sure this was just an oversight but technically Lily58 and some of the other splits like Sofle, Corne, etc. use what's called "Columnar Stagger" which is a little different from stand grid "Ortholinear".

[@itsjohnmavrick]

You are 100% correct! Yeah, I probably could have presented it a bit better seeing as I used the term "straight columns" and struggled to find a good comparison picture for the two online.

[@Mememaxing]

Why no views? The quality of this video is amazing ❤️

[@itsjohnmavrick]

[@arimill1045]

slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

[@knwr]

shift and ctrl aren't "swapped" on the default layer. Shift is always beside 'z'. Caps Lock is often replaced by CTRL(ESC on release) for those who use vim/emacs, so it's the most common location for CTRL on one of these keyboards. Not saying you should use this, I'm just explaining why it comes that way.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

the more you know, thank you for the explanation !

[@beechboiii]

I loved your presentation and production quality. Keep up the good work.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

thank you! :D

[@muhyoutoob4822]

Wow you adapted to that super quickly. I started using an Ergodox a couple months ago with a layout much closer to a standard keyboard and I’m still working back up to my previous typing speed 😅

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Yeah, I was surprised at how fast I was able to adapt 😅To be fair, I spent most of my time in front of the computer during that time so I did lots of practice outside of the 1 hour :) You'll get there eventually! I still haven't reached it personally, but I haven't been trying to consciously improve it.

[@KeebWorks]

I'm glad you made this video! I've been thinking of buying this board so I can use kailh chocs!

[@itsjohnmavrick]

ooo, i never personally tried them, what makes you want to try the shorter switches out?

[@user-ft2md2gd4s]

the point of split column staggered keyboards is moving your fingers almost nothing, mastering touch typing for productivity. Try to learn to press every key with the correct finger and do it without looking the keys. The Lily58 is great, also the Corne.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

I'm able to not look at the keys when typing, but my only bad habit is covering three columns with only my left index finger (from being used to having my hand in WASD position). The corne did look nice, but I got the lily for the extra row just in case.

[@user-ft2md2gd4s]

@@itsjohnmavrick yes it requires a lot of practice! Right I also prefer the Lily58 for the same reason 👍

[@adinugrahasetiadi1903]

I'm new with split ergo keyboard and I'm planning to make one. What do you think about Sofle?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@adinugrahasetiadi1903 I haven't used it personally, but it looks super similar to the lily except for the extra key on the bottom row, which ngl would be nice to have on the lily58.

[@devhypercoder2522]

this should seriously get more views. nice quality man. subbed! i plan on buying the lilly keyboard, 35$ seems to be good enough price

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Ayy, tyty :) For the price, I completely agree; it's a fun project and a budget gateway into the split/ergo keyboard market!

[@devhypercoder2522]

@@itsjohnmavrick I watched the vid, but I can I know how much time it took to come ? I'm from Asia so might be diff, but would like to get a idea (Maybe I didn't hear the delivery time part)

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@devhypercoder2522 Truth be told, I bought it off a friend who no longer wanted it, and I'm also from Canada so I'm not sure if my advice would be helpful :/ Maybe there's an estimated date when you check out?

[@devhypercoder2522]

@@itsjohnmavrick how much did it cost in entirety.. I hear switches and stuff need to bought seperate ? Is that the case

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@devhypercoder2522 Unfortunately, yes. My friend bought it off keyhive.xyz/ and in the description of the product I think it lists what extra things you will need to get. Keycaps and switches shouldn't be too expensive if you don't care much about aesthetics or feel :)

[@gabeh7655]

I love the seasick video editing

[@itsjohnmavrick]

This is sarcasm right 😭

[@ZTK-RC]

Not using thumbs on the space bar and still getting over 100 wpm is impressive af

[@itsjohnmavrick]

thank you haha, it was a gift and a curse :)

[@Yggdrasil42]

Nice video. I'm thinking about building a Kyria. The learning curve will be significant but I'm mostly worried about having trouble when I still need to use regular keyboards.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Yeah, the structure of the Kyria looks a bit more complex; out of curiosity, what's making you choose it over other kinds like the lily or corne? Also, in my personal experience I've been able to decently type on laptop-type keyboards, but struggled a lot when using my sa-profile keyboard again. I've just been using my lily to keep a decent typing speed at this point lmao

[@xStyxBleichx]

I'd be interested in seeing you revisit this idea but using the lily58 with a workman, colemak or colemak dh layout.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

I'm currently on winter break, so I definitely could do it without it hindering me :o

[@xStyxBleichx]

It would be an intersting thing to try. I'm working my way up go it. I went down a KZbin rabbit hole and decided qwerty is the devil (jokingly)...but I work full time in IT kinda hard to switch lol. I'm working on building a 5x6 Dactyl manuform and I'm fully using that in the colemak dh layout once it's built. In the meantime I switch to a planck I ordered on drop and man just using an ortho keyboard has me all sorts of messed up. But I'm pretty close to being back to my qwerty typing speeds on it. Have a good winter break!

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@xStyxBleichx Glad you're starting to get used to the ortho :D The Dactyl seems like a fun time, but I'm not sure if I'd fare well with having to move my fingers vertically to hit keys (or that's what itseemsl like ). But yeah I think you're right to some extent, switching to colemak would be a good idea for the long run hehe

[@EbonySeraphim]

Tip: if you have a good video, you can lead with the conclusion, but your content and dialog about the details is still intriguing. I felt dread the instant you said "watch until the very end." You have to keep in mind, I've watched a bunch of other videos on the same topic; no one should be that confident they hold some sort of secret no one else has discovered or said especially when only working with a very very low priced product in the market segment. Post-watch: not bad. Still could have led with the conclusion for you: not a compelling style to switch to. However valid this applies to you, the problem is I think you're unaware of what the main ergo motivations are, and your own style of using a keyboard. Your left hand seriously drifts off to the left rather than being in the home row position. So right off the bat, you don't entirely type properly, and while mo;st people do something non-strictly standard or taught when it comes to typing, your quirk is rather strong especially in the context of those who care about trying to be better. This is why your left pinky by default drifts so far to the left (probably to hit escape and control more readily and comfortably. Most ergo split keyboards move ESC and especially CTRL to the thumb cluster, which this particular keyboard doesn't have -- offering only one key. Thumbs are seriously under utilized on normal keyboards only offering spacebar so this keyboard only offering one is just holding to the same mistakes.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

good point, but i dont think i meant to say it in the sense that i had a secret? moreso join me on this journey to see how far i get within the 7 days?

[@DogeCharger]

Went with this one in a ready to go version from mechboards instead of the Iris, glad my investment was a good idea lol

[@comet_flips_9289]

Love the bgm

[@itsjohnmavrick]

anime lofi is quite soothing :)

[@papi4282]

Love ur vids mans keep up the good work 👍

[@itsjohnmavrick]

I appreciate the support ;) Will do!

[@RobertGardnerEngineer]

You may be running into a problem with your main finger having three columns rather than two. I noticed that you're using your home row position isn't great.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Yeah, its a habit i developed from having wasd as my natural hand position when playing games :/

[@MarigoldAW]

Great video! I was interested in purchasing one so i can build one myself. I'm was curious if all you purchased was the 32 dollar hotswap kit or were other components needed to build a full keyboard?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Thank you :D Where are you buying it off of? In my case, the website had a list of things you needed to buy separately, which were switches, keycaps, and cables; everything else was included though.

[@MarigoldAW]

@@itsjohnmavrick Currently looking on KeyHive. You're right! i must have overlooked the other list of required components lol. Do you remember the total price you payed including all the components?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@MarigoldAWMy friend actually bought it and then gave it to me as he wasn't planning on using it. If you're buying gateron yellows they'll end up being around $0.25 USD/switch, and keycaps can be around $20-50 for budget ones.

[@She-wolf3636]

I just got a split keyboard yesterday. I'm still getting used to it along with that layers I set up. I'm hope my typing speeds go back to where it was. Thumb keys are game changer

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Did you also get a lily? And yeah they will come back eventually as long as you practice :D

[@canoozie]

52 keys is about the lowest I am willing to go. I type about 180 on average when on monkeytype, about 165 on typeracer. I have enter and backspace on a different layer though, and I use the workman layout on a zsa voyager. Took me 4 days to get up to 140wpm, down from 180 on a staggered keyboard.

[@Hamsters831]

What made you switch back to the standard keyboards since u were able to get up to the top speed you were previously at within 1 week. You would have easily been able to break your personal records within another week.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

I just did it for fun to test if I was capable of switching back and forth, for the most part I did stick with the split and am now using the switch couture for the extra keys ;) I think I did manage to hit almost the same speed eventually as well

[@Hamsters831]

@@itsjohnmavrick I see. Nice. Yikes.. U mean after 1 year and using the new layout with the split keyboard with the reduced travel distances etc you still weren't able to exceed your previous typing speeds? I was thinking to start on my own split keyboard journey with the hope that I could be able to type faster and more comfortably.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@Hamsters831 I mean I didn't really quantify or practice it much after as I was already complacent with my typing speeds of 100+ wpm, but other people hitting 200wpm on ortholinears is proof it's possible. I'd like to believe that my adaptation in 1 week was pretty fast though :p Honestly, it doesn't hurt to try.

[@nathanx.675]

Just curious did you build this yourself? I’m trying to find a prebuilt option but couldn’t find anything,and I know absolutely nothing about soldering…

[@itsjohnmavrick]

my friend did and then my dad cleaned up the non working ones 😅

[@stuvius]

Index finger on space bar?????

[@tusharjamwal]

hahaha xD the gamer 3 finger typing techique xD i love it, if u start using 4 fingers, a bonus is that u will not find the last colunm odd at all.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Yeah I could try, but i'm not too concerned with my typing speed so I might just keep it for now :p

[@ano_nym]

@@itsjohnmavrick Since you game, I wonder how you are not using your thumb for the space bar but right index finger? How do you jump when using the mouse?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@ano_nym Good question, I've never really thought about this before :o I use the mouse scroll wheel to jump in certain FPS games, but for platformers, I don't usually type and jump at the same time so I switched between the postures when needed i guess

[@ano_nym]

@@itsjohnmavrick Oh, didn't know about the scroll wheel thing. Haven't played much FPS on PC. Only heard that was used to abuse the jump when speedrunning Doom. But watched a video on it now and it seems like a good idea.

[@mais1CanaldoYoutube_]

where you bougth you Lily58 keyboard

[@theKaminoanru]

What switches are you using for 60% keyboard (no splitted)?. Nice video and feedback. Actually I bought same PCB Lily58. Next weeks I'm building it.

[@allisondealmeida]

What website did you buy the lily58 pro from?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

i bought it from keyhive.xyz :)

[@karenramirez4761]

How did you add layer? I also have lily58 with nice!nano. I need help. Thanks

[@onepunchman4481]

You should've remapped the layout to suit you.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

I mean I don't really know what best suits me, so I didn't mind getting used to a new layout :p As of now, it's definitely made my hands move less while typing!

[@fluffow2675]

Are you using a split keyboard now a year later? If so, what do you think about it? If not, why?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

ive switched to an Alice around one year ago because i needed more common keys when programming, but i really do prefer the ergonomics of the split

[@lordfener7238]

Hi and thank you for sharing your experience. I wanted to ask you. The big left and right keys, what size are they? 1.50 or 1.75?

[@JT-hh2ik]

I think there 1.5u on the Lilly58

[@melsilva8637]

What kind of keycaps are the ones that you used on the Lily58?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

It's a mix of two extra keycap sets I have, the top number keys are from the gamakay k61, and the dsa profile keys are from the sk61

[@romankoshchei]

Bro, where did you by it?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

keyhive then my friend soldered it

[@ethanperry8]

man if those oleds weren’t there I would cop asap

[@itsjohnmavrick]

What's wrong with oleds? 🤔

[@Cleverest_Clover]

you can build it without the oleds they're optional

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@Cleverest_Clover the more you know :o

[@ano_nym]

Also wondering what's wrong with the OLEDs? But as said, completely optional.

[@teabagNBG]

sombeody needs to make a wireless one...

[@itsjohnmavrick]

It is possible to build the lily58 to allow for wireless connection :o

[@gradeA50]

I know this a long time ago, but using a nice!nano instead of a pro micro for the controllers allows them to be wireless really easily

[@SpuxyYEZ]

did u build on ur own or from any site ?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

My friend did the soldering, then shipped it to me so I could put on keycaps and brush up on any missed parts.

[@lipe43211]

same music of the city of payon ragnarok online =p

[@BenStuff]

Was gonna buy it until I realized I had to build it damn

[@itsjohnmavrick]

You could always get a different model that's pre built or get someone to build it for you :p

[@prntm926]

try corne

[@fluzzard2]

absolutely amazing videos my guy. Please keep up the good work, you will surpass me in like a month aswell :(

[@itsjohnmavrick]

C'mon, don't leave yourself hanging in the dust, ride the youtube train with me ;) I appreciate the support

[@fluzzard2]

@@itsjohnmavrick choo choo, next stop 200 subs for you :D

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@fluzzard2 🚂 and 300 for you ;)

[@ItsMumen]

very good quality video, have you tried to do this experiment but adding "touch typing" ? i think that would fix your bad habits a lot more ps: english is not my native language

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Thank you :) I was thinking of trying out touch typing while doing this, but I would easily revert back because my typing habit comes from playing games 😅 If anything, I'd consider switching up my typing layout to colemak/dvorak Also, your english was great :D

[@DetectiveMartin]

Where can I buy a lily58?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

i got mine off keyhive :)

[@asdqwe4427]

The ergonomics are huge actually. You shouldn’t make judgements on that after just a week. A slit keyboard can be huge for preventing rsi

[@itsjohnmavrick]

i mean yeah i did mention i wasn't some doctor with too much research, i did switch to something like the alice-style layout where it's one board, do you know if it still has similar benefits?

[@asdqwe4427]

You hit on one of the issues later in the video. It starts in the shoulders and if they are not properly aligned it can lead to you getting less blood in your arms and hands and there is also the tendency to lean more on your arms when the shoulders round forward. All of this is made worse by having the hands flat, because the bones in your arms actually overlap each other

[@asdqwe4427]

@@itsjohnmavrick reading my first comment, does sound a little more accusatory than I had intended

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@asdqwe4427 no worries haha, i appreciate the extra insight :)

[@Ifywritecodes]

Hello, Can you help me get this keyboard

[@JamesSmith-ix5jd]

Code typing training sites are useless, you usually type both brackets at the same time, and then use navigation to get inside of them, on any code typing sites that considered as a mistake.

[@MingTheMelon]

How did it affect your qwerty typing though?

[@fakecrafter7448]

What are you coding?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

I was doing practice problems for my AP computer science a exam, and I was programming an assembler for unit 6 of the nand2tetris class part 1 :) It's been a while since then though, and now I'm starting to learn JS and am working on an encryption program with a friend.

[@Ifywritecodes]

I mean the pre built one, because i can't build for myself

[@itsjohnmavrick]

Hi! I personally had my friend build it for me since he was selling it to me, but I think there are some options on some stores to have it pre-built. If you have a soldering iron and some time, it isn't too hard to do it yourself though :)

[@Ifywritecodes]

@@itsjohnmavrick sorry, I don't have such tool, so that's why I'm asking if u can build for me or something or link to get one, I can't find one yet

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@Ifywritecodes I'm not that experienced with building keyboards, and you're right about the lack of builds :/ Maybe you could ship the parts to someone near you to build for you?

[@Ifywritecodes]

@@itsjohnmavrick I'm in Nigeria, so I don't have anyone who can build here, that's why I need ur help

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@Ifywritecodes Sorry, I do not think I am the right person to ask for help about this, what i suggested is the best I can offer :/

[@robindueckdegen5503]

Where do I buy one????

[@itsjohnmavrick]

i got mine keyhive.xyz

[@onepunchman4481]

Build good habits early rather then trying to get rid of bad habits later on.

[@itsjohnmavrick]

For sure! The only problem is I've been playing games for over 8 years so my left index typing on 3 columns has been habitual for a while... I might switch to a new layout though for fun.

[@kefsound]

Not using Dvorak? *facepalm*

[@itsjohnmavrick]

one day I will switch :))

[@letsgoBrandon204]

Simple fix to the Ergodox being expensive.. don't start with an Ergodox. Get sumfink cheepa m8

[@itsjohnmavrick]

I can't seem to find what you're referencing

[@letsgoBrandon204]

@@itsjohnmavrick What reference? The Ergodox? 🤨

[@itsjohnmavrick]

@@letsgoBrandon204 wow, for some reason i thought sumfink was an actual keyboard LMAO

[@letsgoBrandon204]

@@itsjohnmavrick Ha! No, it was meant to be as if it were said in a South London accent. Think Michael Caine I don't think before I post specifically British things.

[@ino9138]

Is that rich brian?

[@itsjohnmavrick]

yessir B)

[@LadyTink]

watching you type and seeing your index finger pulling all the weight, it just hurts seeing your index finger moving like that please learn how to type XD

[@itsjohnmavrick]

It's a habit from having my left hand on WASD keys xd Using home rows is something I should learn eventually though :p

[@bluewetball]

that lofi shinzo sasageyo slaps