I was WRONG about Barry Harris

Round 1 of Q&A around Barry Harris' methods for learning to play bebop. If you have a question, leave it in the comments!
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Resources mentioned in the video:
- ‪@BarryHarrisVideos‬: / @barryharrisvideos
- ‪@JensLarsen‬ Channel: / @jenslarsen
- ‪@thingsivelearnedfrombarryh2616‬ Channel : / @thingsivelearnedfromb...
Buy the Barry Harris DVD: jazzworkshops.com/the-barry-h...
Buy Alan Kingstone book: www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...
I am not affiliated with the stores selling these products, nor am I commissioned / incentivized to sell them. I'm just a big fan.
00:00 - Intro
00:25 - Clearing Up Some Things
03:39 - Barry Harris Q&A

[@JoshWalshMusic]

🎹 Check out my Jazz Fundamentals course and get 30% off your first year/month with the coupon code below. - courses.jazz-library.com/ - Coupon Code: ytsub

[@thingsivelearnedfrombarryh2616]

Spread the word Josh. Wonderful! Just one point of clarification. Barry's contrary motion on piano was labeled "Elevator" by my favorite guitarist named Thomas Echols. He has a KZbin channel called The Labyrinth of Limitations where he talks about Barry's harmonic concepts. The thing that makes him special is he has devised various systems to make Barry's concepts more applicable for the guitar. I think you'd love his channel. Keep up the good work.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

I’m a big fan of his channel, which I found from you. I didn’t realize he had coined the term, though I learned it from him. Brilliant channel. A few other fans of his here in the comments. Thanks for all you do!

[@jeremyversusjazz]

i was just about to comment that my teacher-chris parks is adamant that thomas eccles coined the idea of the elevator…but then, chris parks was way ahead of me! cool video brother-especially now that i understand some of it!

[@ScottMeloney]

Excellent video Josh! You raise great points and provide useful info I can practice/apply. Thank you!

[@DojoOfCool]

Barry Harris concept is the foundation to know to get started in Jazz and music in general. A lot of the best Jazz musicians today you dig down deep enough they have Barry Harris in their background, but they really focus on Barry's borrow to add colors to things they do.

[@johnrothfield6126]

Thanks for all your videos!

[@lassiterbenjamin]

Pure gold. Thanks!

[@martynramsden]

Hi Josh, great post, I've watched it several times, so interesting. It gets me thinking really hard. More please, really engaging. Thanks Martyn.

[@nilesloughlin6845]

You’re great at explaining concepts, mate. Also, a wonderful description of the difference between fundamentals practice and applying creative ideas into improvisation and creative experimentation!

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Thanks Niles!

[@JazzGuitarScrapbook]

Well said, great points

[@jenniferv]

Just found your channel yesterday. Good stuff! Will be practicing with those siblings asap. Thanks!

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Welcome! So glad to have you here!

[@hoboken5224]

Josh, you deserve more than 15.7k subscribers. I look forward to your repeated uploads. Keep up the good work.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Thanks man. For my first year I’m happy with that growth. But tell all your nerdy jazz friends 🤣

[@efanshel]

I saw him play around New York in my teens and twenties.. He was not the most polished performer and didn't really learn what I could have because I got distracted by this. What a mistake- he had a steel trap mind and was very generous with his knowledge. I appreciate him so much now....

[@jorgeleyton1474]

Thanks Josh. To me its like a language and if you want to be fluent, you would investigate every avenue to take you there. But the foundation has to be there. I would recommend watching Robbie Barnby as well for some of Barry Harris concepts. Great works and thanks for doing this.

[@JensLarsen]

Thank you Josh! You Rule! 😂😂

[@JoshWalshMusic]

You’re the best!

[@brettprice527]

Great points all around. Completely agree.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Thanks Brett. And thanks for the great question.

[@Reapwhatsown]

Nice. I just commented on your 6th on the 5th. I love this content. I started making these associations years ago and have my own "rules" . I see everything through triad stacking these days.

[@winstonsmith8240]

After only recently discovering Barry Harris, and having my mind blown, the information you're giving has its place along with the other channels you mention. I'll take something from you all, hopefully. I'm a bit speechless to be honest, so I'll just say a huge thank you. And of course, subscribe. Wow! 🤯

[@JoshWalshMusic]

So glad to hear, Winston. If you want more details on anything Barry, please hit me up through the website. I’m sure others have the same question and I’m always looking for more Barry topics.

[@hiddekuijpers5019]

Totally agree Josh, it is about exercising for getting it from our ears into our hands back into our ears. Peter Kuijpers (Guitar) fan of you, Chris Parks and Jens Larsen

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Thanks and so glad to have you here!

[@donnybeeyt]

Just found your channel Josh and great job presenting the BH material (that's as far and I've gotten on your channel so far). I wanted to add some context to the "play the 6th on the 5th" that may be helpful to some. A Ma7 chord that is not the tonic usually functions as a IVMa7. In the key of C that would be FMa7 and the 5th of F would give you the CMa6/Ddim pair. The CMa6 provides the Ma7 and Ma9. Borrowing the B and D from Ddim provide the natural extensions for the F MA13#11 in the key of C.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Glad to have you here! This is an old video, so congrats on finding your way accidentally into the bowels of the archives. There are 7 other BH video in here, though the channel has broadened out a bunch since then. Glad to have you in the community.

[@kennyb1063]

Good Job Josh

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Thanks Kenny!

[@nairanvac79]

Thanks a lot for answering my question! I was just looking at the chords for Sonnymoon for Two, and I was wondering what to play over the Edim7 chord in bar 6. I haven't heard many people who discuss Barry's ideas talk about what to play when a diminished chord is actually notated on the sheet music.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Hey! Glad you are back :-) I don’t know this tune well, but when you see a dim chord, you just play the dim chord… easy peasy. I made a short last week about a nice movement you can play over a dim chord, you can see that on the shorts tab on the channel page 👍🏻

[@guidemeChrist]

"B section of Take the A train" then starts playing the bridge to Satin Doll feels like zoomer jazz school humor

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Lol! I literally facepalmed when I heard this while editing.

[@johnrothfield6126]

Also for guitarists: www.youtube.com/@TheLabyrinthofLimitations Especially for applying "chordal" approaches to the guitar.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Thomas’ channel is brilliant.

[@jazmaan]

Can you recommend any Barry tutorials aimed at sax players?

[@lloyddorsey2476]

Great

[@mlabash]

Hi Josh, I greatly appreciate the sincerity and enthusiasm you bring to explaining Barry's methods. I feel that those who are taking you to task in the comments are quibbling over semantics. When Barry says "rules" he means principles. Principles are the foundation of science, nature and art. Artists like Picasso, Parker and Hendrix explored, understood and absorbed more "rules" than anyone else. It was their deep and profound grasp of those fundamentals that allowed them to break rules so intentionally and masterfully. What do people think Parker did practicing for years in his apartment? Just winging it? To think otherwise is to consign artists to the convenient category of "naturally gifted", a well-meaning diminishment of their achievements. What Barry gave us is a deceptively simple map to guide our own explorations. Later for everything else.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

I appreciate that so much. Thank you. I think for a lot of people it diminishes Parker’s brilliance for them to think he sat and practiced like we do. It doesn’t diminish it all for me.

[@mlabash]

@@JoshWalshMusic Absolutely! Their practice had to be more intensive than we can possibly imagine. Artists are not from other planets, they are human beings who are capable of incredible commitment. That is so inspiring because it's what connects our practice to them. Of course, one can practice all day long and not make progress either. The greats learned how to teach themselves. That is their genius.

[@johanwiman5983]

Thanks! A question: when you play any chord over a base note, like for instance Gm6 over C it's all clear that you are still staying in C. But the concept of locked hands (or drop 2) falls, since you can't keep C in the base if you start playing Gm6 and it's diminished chord without a base player. In a chord progression from C to G for instance, is there any way of playing the sixth (Dm6) on the fifth of G and still do it with locked hands? I feel that going straight to the locked hands scale for G6 really doesn't give me the dominant sound to G. It sound more like a modulation to me. Is locked hands on G7 the only answer?

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Good question. In an ensemble the bass would assume the job of the root, but I’m actually not sure when playing solo. I’ve always tried to find a way to hint at the root, by reaching down and grabbing it with my left hand from time to time. Good question.

[@abath07]

C Maj7 is C6 with a borrowed diminished note. C- Maj7 is C-6 with a borrowed diminished note.

[@johnrothfield6126]

Why is it called the elevator? Is it the same reason give by the Thomas on the "Labriinth of limitations" ? He says that each floor is a different voicing.

[@johngoldberg5589]

Sidenote, for hundreds of years improvisers followed very strict rules called counterpoint. Harmony only works because of counterpoint, Jazz included. If you want a free, no thinking play whatever you feel like at any given moment kind of experience, stick to modal Jazz. Although, I can see how a good understanding of counterpoint can inform modal playing as well.

[@nilesloughlin6845]

A solid understanding of harmonic counterpoint is essential in order to take advantage of what modal jazz has to offer, imo.

[@WoodyGamesUK]

I think what he meant is that even if some rules are studied and practiced, they are internalised enough (with enough practice) so that when you improvise you tend to bring out a combination of all the elements that you have studied in a more intuitive way (so you don't have to work out which notes to play on a given chord for example). Even more so if you improvise on a tune that you're familiar with and which you already have improvised on before, you have an idea of how it's going to sound. But it's still following some rules, you're not playing any note that you like, it's more like you've done the study before so you "know" which notes sound good without having to analyse in real time.

[@johngoldberg5589]

@@WoodyGamesUK absolutely. And my point was that improvisation has a centuries long tradition following that model.

[@petermcmurray2807]

Thank You. The remark about Charlie Parker very important. He did not invent as he went he practiced phenomenally and had a bag of tricks - one major analysis recognised some 90 to 100 riffs he used .

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Thank you! Sometimes people think I’m nuts here. Lol. Just because he practiced a lot doesn’t diminish his genius.

[@petermcmurray2807]

@@JoshWalshMusic Correct he had to invent those moves and bring them out at 300bpm

[@francisrichard5282]

Thanks Josh, clarifications about Barry Harris are more than welcome! I also found interesting BH stuff in JazzSkills! the channel from Shan Verma.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Shan is great.

[@gloriabrinkworth939]

give some exact brothers & sisters & explain why i have been searching for that answer for years.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Sure. Let’s say you had G7, which comes from Ab dim. Any of the other 7th chords that come from Ab dim will work. So G7s brothers are Bb7, Db7 and E7. 👍🏻

[@johnrothfield6126]

Explanation for why doesn't B natural "want" to resolve upward ?

[@JoshWalshMusic]

It resolves either direction. The 6 is more colorful in a jazz context, but upwards is a tried and true leading tone. 👍🏻

[@TheRealSandleford]

A thing people may like is with the elevator thing, its like the voicing examples shown. So you could get off of the elevator and walk around one of the floors (voicings). Instead of continuing contrary motion, playing the scale! There is a youtube channel I asked if he invented the elevator and he said yes but maybe he just had the idea of walking around the floors was what he meant? Personally, I say who cares its just fun.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Thomas Echols (spelling) has a fantastic video on this on his Labyrinth of Limitations video.

[@TheRealSandleford]

@@JoshWalshMusic That was to whom I referred. I like as well, "JazzSkills". Fun stuff!

[@km6206]

i think people are just hung up on the term 'rules.' You can just call them the structural 'properties' of the music since that is what they are.

[@mrquick6775]

Am not a Barry Harris aficionado! Every person that I’ve seen study his playing seems to be caught up in thought as you mentioned. I just got turned off from it.. so it’s weird that you bring it up because he definitely turns me off. I create my own exercises!

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Go with what works for you!

[@ieuehkke5286]

Because you havent met the right guys... And forget about O.peterson. check bud powell.

[@MrVesperatu]

Gosh, seems like these guitar players (Jens et al) really know their stuff.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Jens is the best.

[@MrVesperatu]

@@JoshWalshMusic he really is. He taught me more than anyone else on earth, even Barry Harris. I really appreciate him.

[@tbonealex]

At 4:24 you’re playing the bridge to Satin Doll, not Take the A Train.

[@tbonealex]

It looks like you tried to add a screen shot correcting it but it goes by so fast it’s too hard to see. Worth correcting!

[@JoshWalshMusic]

I added a flash of text to correct that mistake when I was editing, as you saw. I just misspoke when recording. 😐 But good ear!

[@markbonnet2121]

Josh: Is the G immediately above middle C on your keyboard sounding correct to you? It sounds an octave too high to my ears.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Keyscape (my piano sound) malfunctions for me sometimes and only plays overtones making it sound too high. It happened a few times on the low C too. I’m trying to figure that out with them. Appreciate the feedback!

[@markbonnet2121]

@@JoshWalshMusic OK, great. Thanks for clarifying... I was worried it was me. Keep up the great content, Josh. I love your channel, especially the Barry Harris content -- best on YT, IMHO.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

@@markbonnet2121 you are so kind. Thanks for being here!

[@MarkEisenman]

"RULES" means "rules of thumb"...

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Exactly! Btw, I still practice your Red Garland exercise. Thanks man!

[@MarkEisenman]

@@JoshWalshMusic That is TOO cool!

[@kormosjano64]

Take the A train? It's Satin Doll's bridge

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Yup I totally said that wrong 😂

[@kormosjano64]

I'd like to see a lesson about the melodic soloing use of this system. I listened to Barry Harris solos, and I found, it was ,,usual" bebop, that I know without knowing his diminished six stuff. The chromatics are normal, I've learned them (as far as I'm capable) listening to Joe Pass.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

@@kormosjano64 it exists already. check out my Barry playlist, specifically the video about Barry saving me from the bebop scale. There’s another video on creating solo phrases on the channel too, which is not in the Barry playlist but is in line with his methods. Of course you could check out my Jazz Fundamentals course too. In the description of the video.

[@tooter1able]

Where can one hear YOU perform?

[@JoshWalshMusic]

I play here on KZbin all the time. In various videos, live events. Or if you are in Ohio I play all over the area solo and with various groups and universities.

[@TTFMjock]

4:18 That’s Satin Doll. Not A Train Am I missing a joke?

[@JoshWalshMusic]

It is. You are right. I corrected it in the edit, misspoke while filming. 🤦‍♂️

[@philipfederici2947]

Barry Harris Trio. Live at Clasijazz (Almeria, 25/10/2014). Really?

[@carlinwoods245]

I sat in many Barry Harris workshops through the 1990's. He insisted that I sit front row center, opposite him. I was close enough to count his teeth. the words I heard from his mouth were "you must learn the rules but then as you advance you learn to GO BEYOND THE RULES." People have a bad tendency of overanalyzing and overly interpreting simple things. W-W-H-W-W-W-H is the RULE for a MAJOR DIATONIC SCALE. You learn this as a novice/beginner. After digesting that, you try to go beyond that rule and play the major scale in thirds, then in triads, then zig-zag triads ascending and descending, then chords ascending, descending and zig-zag. Then patterns etc. BUT if you don't grasp the basic RULE for the major scale as a beginner, you could run into all sorts of obstacles trying to advance your skills set. A ton of motor vehicle accidents involve drivers that never or barely read the Driver Manual and do not know the RULES OF THE ROAD...Stop playin.......

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Well said.

[@ieuehkke5286]

How to use his stuff ? Well...most people need formular and need to be told what to do, how to live and are ready to pay for it. Sorry guys. We all know the same alphabet but not all are poete.

[@janjablonsky]

I swear that I'm not saying this to be a nasty no it all, but Barry Harris honestly believed that there was only one way to play and that way was to play like Barry Harris. He accepted one definition for the music we call jazz and he wrote every word of that definition. In short, he was closed-minded. I still love him as a human being.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

Jan - I actually agree with some of this and I don’t think you are being nasty. I’ve spent a lot of time with his material, and he gives a lot of credit to his contemporary players on the technique. In my interpretation, he acted more like a academic studying and putting methods to the sounds he was hearing. He also gives a lot of credit to Shoenberg. He does like to jab at the traditional teaching, and why he thinks his methods are better. And in some cases (far from all cases), I think with some merit. He was a tough dude, but ask any of his students and they’ll tell you it was tough love, not criticism. I do believe he wanted deeply to use his experience to grow upcoming musicians.

[@janjablonsky]

@@JoshWalshMusic Indeed, I believe you're correct in the fact that he truly cared about his students. Barry Harris did teach one thing and that one thing is quite important to my playing. He talks about getting your body into your playing and utilizing your arms starting with the top of your shoulders. That advice has served me quite well.

[@godzoo18]

I'm sure your wrong about a whole lot of things.. which is why there's no point in watching your videos. What to learn from someone who'r wrong about everything. Nada.

[@JoshWalshMusic]

You don’t have to watch. I make mistakes, and I want to correct them for the record. I wish I was perfect, but sadly still human. Cheers.