IBM Punched Cards, Hollerith Cards [Inspection] | Nostalgia Nerd

[@rick420buzz]

Punched cards are why 80 columns is now the standard terminal width, such as the Windows command prompt.

[@stevenhemingway1211]

I didn't know that interesting

[@Nostalgianerd]

+Richard Edwards That's genuinely interesting.

[@roseroberts2055]

I used to be a punch card operator at automatic data processing in Manchester.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@referral madness IT jobs used to have a lot of women until the IT jobs started being considered good jobs, and then most of the women were pushed out, and have only been returning slowly and painfully.

[@RaymondHng]

@referral madness Punch card operators or data entry operators were basically clerical workers. They type letters and numbers as they read source documents. Most clerical workers were women. I was one of two guys who were data entry operators. But I had the math, algebra, and programming skills to become a programmer analyst. Dorothy Vaughn was one woman with math skills who taught herself FORTRAN programming. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmaqh2qFec2nbZo

[@awwrelic]

Definitely remember punched cards. I grew up in the 60s and 70s when they were still very much being used. As a matter of fact, here in the US they were used for distributing Social Security checks. My dad was killed back in 1974, and my mom, in ill health and not able to get a job, got Social Security for us, and every month, these checks would come on these punched cards (my guess is that they were easier to process). I still keep a punched card (not a check) in my papers to remember those days.

[@richardhaas39]

That was very common. So everyone who came in contact with these cards (like the postman) was warned, "Do not fold, spindle or mutilate., " or the card reader would not be able to process it.

[@RaymondHng]

Those checks were on punch cards so when you deposited the check in the bank, it eventually gets returned to Social Security Administration for further processing. The cards can be quickly read by a high speed card reader at up to 1,000 punch cards per minute. This is immensely faster than manually rekeying the data by hand back into the computer. The telephone bill also came on punch cards. When you submit payment, you mail back the card along with your check for processing.

[@timurtheterrible4062]

My grandpa still has plenty of them. He uses them as a convinient way to keep notes, since they're strong and won't get crumpled.

[@PaulKostrzewa]

I learned to program FORTRAN using punchcards in high school back in the early 1980s... god help the poor guy who dropped his stack of cards and got them out of order!

[@allanrichardson1468]

Paul Kostrzewa That’s why the language ignored columns 73-80. You could punch a sequence number in those columns and run the cards through a sorter in a minute or two. Sorters were essential machines with pre-computer accounting machines, and some computer applications required sorting input cards ... and of course a sorter helped if you dropped a deck, so most computer departments kept one around just in case.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@referral madness As far as I know, although out of order execution was invented in the punch card era, it didn't really catch on big until significantly afterwards. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-order_execution

[@RaymondHng]

@referral madness In short, no. Dropping a deck of cards and putting them back in random order is not out-of-order execution. It is just a program that will not work.

[@tjeerdnet]

I like how you keep stacking them aligned together nicely and after that undo the nice stacked alignment by throwing them on the desk again and keep repeating doing that ;)

[@PuffyRainbowCloud]

I was kinda annoyed that they're out of order now, though.

[@scottwilson9773]

1983 to 84 and beyond we were still using them in warehouse inventory entry. 15 digit stock numbers codes and quantities. No computer screens. Just print outs. I kept that file up todate too. Huge books of 4 years kept on hand. Pain in the ass keeping them current and in order. 5 inches of like 25 x 15 computer print outs. Snake ing long plastic precursors to zipties through all the holes in the computer paper to bind them. Salute Cannon AFB 83/85 😉

[@stumpybear60]

ASCII hadn't been established yet. EBCDIC was used by IBM during the time of the punched cards.

[@RaymondHng]

EBCDIC was devised in 1963 and 1964 by IBM and was announced with the release of the IBM System/360 line of mainframe computers. Before the introduction of the System/360, punched cards used BCD encoding. There were no lower case characters in this encodine.

[@rty1955]

Actually it was the HOLLERITH code on punch cards. EBCDIC was the format internal to the mainframe

[@gmc9753]

Let's see. So one 256 gig microSD card can hold over 3 billion punched cards worth of data. I wonder how many cubic feet of space that would take!

[@billj5645]

Packs of 200? We had boxes of 2000. I used those to write programs in college and after college to write programs for the minicomputer that my company owned. In college I remember seeing graduate students carrying large stacks of cards, maybe 1000 line computer programs or data for a thesis. I still have some punched cards laying around, they make great bookmarks for that other antique data storage medium- the printed book.

[@aksei5786]

This is one of the most beautiful things I have seen on youtube. Kudos pal that was great

[@avshomerx]

It would be interesting to punch a Tweet across two cards.

[@RaymondHng]

It will have to be ALL CAPS. There is no lower case encoding on Hollerith punch cards.

[@SomeOrangeCat]

Sending memes to coworkers was a much more patience-involved progress back in those days! "Guffaw! Oh, Fenwick! You and your feline photographs with humorous anecdotes attached to them! Bully! Bully I say! I'll work forthwith to send this to the boys in accounts payable, across the hall! Should take the better part of a fortnight!"

[@katie2940]

How many will it take to store Doom?

[@The_Str4nger]

or GTA V?

[@reb6453]

Or Microsoft dos

[@alyks6312]

One, with 75 spare spaces.

[@RaymondHng]

@@reb6453 We need to know how many megabytes there are in the program Doom or in the MS-DOS operating system. To give you an idea of the enormity of punch card storage, this 6-and-a-half-minute video at kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zoqkd5ZnfJqBrrs takes 104,863,413 bytes (100 MB) of storage as an MP4 file. If we were to store that file on punch cards using only eight rows (one for each bit), it will take 1,310,793 punch cards. Since each card is 0.007 inches thick, the stack of cards will be 9,175.5 inches high, 764.6 feet tall, or 656 boxes of cards at 2,000 cards per box. 16,500 punch cards weigh 99 pounds, so this stack of cards will be 7,864.8 pounds. The card reader shown in the video reading at 600 cards per minute, will take 2,184.6 minutes or *36.4 hours* to read 1,310,793 punch cards. But instead of wasting four rows, let's use use all twelve rows of the card. Then we can store 120 bytes per card. This video will take 873,862 punch cards, stacked 6,117 inches high, 509.8 feet tall, or 437 boxes and 5,243.2 pounds. That's a lot of trees. And it will take *24.27 hours* to read them. MS-DOS 6.21 came on three 1.44 disks which comes to 4.32 MB.

[@Voltaire321]

I have a very minor quibble. I'm just nitpicking really but.... You reference ACSII throughout the video. The thing is that the first ASCII standard wasn't published until 1963 which I don't believe IBM ever adopted for punch cards. Instead they published their own encoding scheme called EBCDIC around 1963-1964 which they use to this day (it's still the native encoding for IBM and many other brands of mainframe.) Before EBCDIC IBM used "Binary Encoded Decimal" for punch cards I believe. Thanks for the videos! Love the channel.

[@RaymondHng]

BCD (Binary Coded Decimal) for punch cards. IBM used EBCDIC encoding starting on the System 360 mainframe system and later on the System/3x midrange systems. The IBM PC introduced in 1981 was the first system to use ASCII encoding.

[@rty1955]

Actually you are in correct. EBCDIC was never used on punch cards. It was always the Hollerith code. EBCDIC was used for other storage medium :) I worked on 407 Accointing machines that used the Hollerith code then later on tje 1401, 360 and on, they used the EBCIDIC code internally and on mag tape, discs etc.

[@Larry]

My Mum used to punch those cards for a living for Rank.

[@exoticcoder5365]

Great !

[@exoticcoder5365]

Gorgeous mum, we are thankful

[@SamLowryDZ-015]

We were still using them at school in the early 80s. First lesson of computer science was how to fill in a punch card. With an HB - so they could be re-used.

[@joyhearrington8503]

What was an HB?

[@zOMGREI]

@@joyhearrington8503 A pencil. HB is one of the grades of graphite hardness, and the most common. If you're in the US, we typically just call them No. 2s, but most pencils will have both 2/HB markings on them.

[@ScminizationMusic]

Where does the paper that is punched out go?

[@rty1955]

Into a small box located on the front bottom.of a keypunch called the "chip box" we used to toss them like confetti until a peron damaged thier eye. The chips are razor sharp and very tiny

[@rty1955]

As a person who worked with punch cards BEFORE the advent of a computer, i used "unit record" equipment. Machines like the IBM 024 keypunch, IBM 083 card sorter, IBM 407 accointing machines and such (still remember coding using plugboards & wires) Then i moved o to tje 1401, 360, 370b 4300, 3090 etc. Also for most of the readers the coding on punch cards was NOT EBCDIC nor ASCII it was the HOLLERITH code. EBCDIC was another form of coding that made up the 256 bit combinations on IBM computers. EBCDIC or Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Character, was before ASCII or American Standard Code for Informational Interchange. I am a retired CIO that now vounteers, repairs, teach about vintage computers in a computer museum

[@Gooberslot]

My first computer used tapes for storage. I'm not sure that these cards wouldn't have been more reliable.

[@sukumvit]

Probably more reliable... Unless you accidentally dropped the stack of cards - instant data corruption!

[@Gooberslot]

Yeah, but at least you have control of that. Tapes seem to fail completely randomly.

[@sukumvit]

+Gooberslot It's a feature... Which has been preserved in computing up till this day!

[@RaymondHng]

To give you an idea of the enormity of punch card storage, this 6-and-a-half-minute video at kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zoqkd5ZnfJqBrrs takes 104,863,413 bytes (100 MB) of storage as an MP4 file. If we were to store that file on punch cards using only eight rows (one for each bit), it will take 1,310,793 punch cards. Since each card is 0.007 inches thick, the stack of cards will be 9,175.5 inches high, 764.6 feet tall, or 656 boxes of cards at 2,000 cards per box. 16,500 punch cards weigh 99 pounds, so this stack of cards will be 7,864.8 pounds. The card reader shown in the video reading at 600 cards per minute, will take 2,184.6 minutes or *36.4 hours* to read 1,310,793 punch cards. But instead of wasting four rows, let's use use all twelve rows of the card. Then we can store 120 bytes per card. This video will take 873,862 punch cards, stacked 6,117 inches high, 509.8 feet tall, or 437 boxes and 5,243.2 pounds. That's a lot of trees. And it will take *24.27 hours* to read them. 16,500 punch cards weigh 99 pounds, so this stack of 1,310,793 cards will be 7,864.8 pounds. Or the 873,862 punch cards (120 ASCII characters per card) will be 5,243.2 pounds.

[@armornick]

The character sets on punched cards actually weren't ASCII because punched cards predate the ASCII character set. Instead, several character sets are used, called the EBCDIC character sets.

[@RaymondHng]

EBCDIC was devised in 1963 and 1964 by IBM and was announced with the release of the IBM System/360 line of mainframe computers. Before the introduction of the System/360, punched cards used BCD encoding. There were no lower case characters in this encodine.

[@rty1955]

​@@RaymondHngactually you are both wrong. The code set on a punch card was the HOLLERITH coding method.

[@104d_3rr0r_vince]

I was working at a computer store when a lady stop by to ask for a job. She said : I know how to punch cards...

[@Nostalgianerd]

+Vincent GR I would have snapped her up.

[@21Trainman]

Well, what did you tell her?

[@104d_3rr0r_vince]

@@21Trainman The boss gave her a job for almost two years. She was at sales.

[@prismstudios001]

"Here he lies Molding, his dying was hard.....They killed him for folding an IBM card"....

[@babushkablyattv2751]

Wtf was that?

[@joyhearrington8503]

@@babushkablyattv2751 An old joke they used to say when punched cards were in use.

[@No29999]

Worst thing is that I don’t know what it is nor how it’s used and what the system used to look like. So if you are from a generation that knows these kind of things, try telling it. Because I don’t know how to conceptualize this thing… not very informative at all.

[@IzludeTingel]

Wonder if a hobbyist out there has recreated a punch card system for modern times, where a single card could back up about 512MB or more? Just for the heck of it. Maybe even EMP? If I back up for WW3 emps, I want it done in style.

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

Technically CD-ROM acts kinda similar to punch card besides the data is in serial and kinda encoded. And it's pretty much more durable than punch card because plastic is harder to degrade.

[@jerseybob4471]

Computer nerds, like me, would have a hand full of punch cards tucked behind their pocket protector. Great for keeping notes. When punched cards faded away, I had to resort to a small tablet (paper) from IBM that said THINK.

[@Lorfarius]

Do you have a card reader for them?

[@Nostalgianerd]

+Lorfarius Unfortunately, no. Just the cards

[@Lorfarius]

+Nostalgia Nerd More importantly... do you think you will get one for a vid?

[@RaymondHng]

This guy in Silicon Valley has a card reader. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zoqkd5ZnfJqBrrs

[@pferreira1983]

Amazing technology.

[@jovanweismiller7114]

My first job in computers was feeding cards into a reader!

[@parthbhagat4121]

wow

[@RaymondHng]

"Feed me, Seymour!"

[@rty1955]

You mena you were a comouter operator. There was no such job as a "card feeder"

[@parthbhagat4121]

i still dont understand how it works.....

[@Bassjunkie_1]

Wait.. Isn't this what IBM used to track the err,.... WW2 I leave the rest to all imagination .

[@codevoid4238]

I'm surprised there was no stories of people slitting their wrists with them, it seems "excessive"

[@mylenegalicio3190]

how to read manually a 80 column punch card?

[@RaymondHng]

How to read the holes on a punch card. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card#IBM_80-column_punched_card_format_and_character_codes

[@rty1955]

HOld it up to a light a d read the holes in a column

[@obamna36]

can you run doom in it?

[@exoticcoder5365]

Good one

[@bencox5994]

Awesome

[@pqrstzxerty1296]

and what did Ibm famously use them for..... with Bertelsmann ?

[@ZXRulezzz]

They remind me more about solder paste stencils rather than colouring books :) Also, it would be interesting to see how punchcards from around the world looked like. I have a clean one that seems to look almost like yours, but the cut corner in on opposite side. Check it out: drive.google.com/file/d/0B45C8fUljHvccFpuWV8xYjNfQkk/view Presumably, it was made in '83 according to standard from '81, and Челябинск is the name of the city it was made in (maybe?)

[@nbvfyh889]

:hand-purple-blue-peace::hand-purple-blue-peace::hand-purple-blue-peace::hand-purple-blue-peace::hand-purple-blue-peace::hand-purple-blue-peace

[@thepoomug5449]

Would these be worth anything nowadays? A family member of mine found what looks like Japanese punch cards with univac on the bottom left of the cards in her loft.

[@breakdancerQ]

How the fook

[@johnpro2847]

the only thing i learned here was how to shuffle punch cards...!!

[@Nostalgianerd]

You're welcome

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Actually, with old punches, you COULD punch more patterns than they had provision for with just 1 keypress, if you used the Multipunch key (or backspaced the card if the punch didn't have one)(*) and pressed more than one key per column. Of course, this was a pain, so it was preferably used only for special codes. Would like to see a video on unit record equipment, which was what used these cards and was used to perform computing before actual computers existed (and overlapped significantly into the early years of computers). (*)Edit: Supposedly, on at least some keypunches (including IBM) you could achieve the same effect as a Multipunch key if you just pressed a finger down on the card really hard so that it slipped instead of advancing. Although the purpose I originally read for this wasn't for multipunching (since the IBM keypunches already had a key for this), but for giving you the ability to insert and delete when using the Duplicate Card key (which had no built-in provision for insertions and deletions) to make a corrected or otherwise altered version of an existing card. Actually, depending upon how well you could keep the card from advancing, this sounds potentially more reliable than trying to backspace it by just the right amount (manually), unless the keypunch had an actual Backspace key.

[@RaymondHng]

Unit record equipment. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJ24iJpoo912sJI

[@Ramdileo_sys]

80 characters per card.. right @Nostalgia Nerd ?? .. .. so for 1Kb (1024 bytes = 1024 characters) it would be like 12.8.. almost 13 cards..... that is not so bad 🤔.. .. but for 1Mb.. it will be 12.800 cards.. (this is getting heavy.. 🥺 literally).. and for a miserable crappy disquete?? .. .. 1.44Mb = 1440kb = 1.474.560 bytes/characters.. 18.432 cards and a really big bag.. .. because 0.02 (0.0023 pounds) grams per card is like 93 kilos (205 pounds of paper).. that is a heavy disquete.. 🥴

[@TheMusicalStylingsofBrentBunn]

Shaboobala

[@merkabah2]

Jew round up cards D:

[@RuthAnneWood]

Hilarious.