IC-705 QRP POTA | AL-705 Magnetic Loop | Another struggle

[@TXLorenzo]

Your dog looks like a little sweetheart.

[@w1lex848]

Nice, loved the park to same park contact there.

[@ThomasK4SWL]

I love the IC-705 and think you might enjoy pairing it with a nice and simple 40 meter end fed half wave (EFHW). It requires no tuner and will give you good results on 40 and 20 (and 10 when those conditions are alright). I typically prefer wire antennas if I have trees or a support. I find loops come in very handy when I'm space limited at a site or if the site allows no lines in trees nor stakes in the ground. They're also great for urban park activations when RFI might be an issue. Best to perhaps put it on a tripod away from the metal frame of the table. EFHW antennas are quite easy to build, but MFJ has a nice basic one for about $50: the MFJ-1984LP. Pairs nicely with the 705! Good on you for being persistent and then giving your pup a walk afterwards! :) Cheers, Thomas K4SWL

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Thanks Thomas. I really want to make the mag loop work, but each time it has been challenging. I’ll try keeping it away from the metal of the picnic table next time. My next video will be at the same spot, with an EFHW. Interest results.

[@ThomasK4SWL]

@@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam I do remember once when I didn't have a tripod mount for my W4OP loop, I used two large empty Rubbermaid style plastic boxes stacked on top of each other. They're completely dielectric and actually worked quite well.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

I’m thinking maybe I could find a tree stump or similar to rest it on. I’m trying really hard to make it work in as lightweight configuration as possible, and without the need of supporting tripods/masts etc. but it’s very hard. Without giving much away I was back there again last weekend with my EFHW and still had bad luck. I’m thinking it may be one of those RF dead spots because the station working FT-8 from his car also didn’t get the magic 10 for an activation. I usually do very well with the EFHW setup, just not at that particular location. Elsa loves it there though 😎

[@ThomasK4SWL]

@@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam keep in mind, too, that conditions have been incredibly poor lately. The bands are horribly unstable. Two weeks ago, I did a trailside activation at one park and snagged 11 contacts in 12 minutes. Cut that one short because I decided to squeeze in one more nearby park. That one took one hour 15 minutes to get 10. Those activations were in the same geographic area, same topography, and only 30 minutes in between. Thing is, the BZ numbers went south and there were no effective bands. Just finished a SOTA activation that was the total opposite--fabulous 20 and 17 meter conditions. 5 watts and a vertical snagged 44 contacts from all over the US, Canada and Europe. Propagation is incredibly fickle. My guess is that you simply hit the field at the wrong time. Don't give up!

[@DARTHDANSAN]

As a person looking to get this radio thank you recommend an antena for less 100$. I wanna get this radio but I don’t wanna go bankrupt in the process

[@Dr-T]

What a well-behaved woof! No way could I do a POA with my two in tow :-) I sometimes use an AlexLoop but my favourite antenna for a quick deployment is my QRPGuys 3-band vertical. Hooked on a 17M pole lashed to a camping table, it works 3x better than my loop. I'm using 5 watts from a KX3. -- So don't give up! 73 Bruce G4ABX

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Thanks Bruce. Our other dog Misfire stays at home because she will chew her way through any leash we try, but Elsa is very patient. I've heard good things about the qrpguys products. Btw I got my ham license in the 80's as G1ZHN and moved to the US a few years back. Stay safe.

[@jeffg7358]

I was going to try a loop antenna for convenience but I'm having doubts now. Tu ee

[@TXLorenzo]

I keep trying to get mag loops to work as well as EF antennas, but it doesn't seem to work.

[@davidsradioroom9678]

1. How many hams does it take to activate a park?: As many as want to come. 2. sorry for so few contacts, but remember, a bad day playing radio beats a good day at work.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

It sure was funny that 3 of us happened to be there at the same time, completely independently of each other.

[@johnarrow3354]

Hi. It would have been interesting to share antenna setups with the other ‘same park’ contact, given the closeness and poor contact conditions.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Yes that's true. Comparing our setups would have been interesting.

[@pale_2111]

I got the same set up. It takes a hot minute to tune the antenna. I caught a good 10m band opening in January and got a couple DX contacts in Coasta Rica. The antenna itself doesn't really like 20m. Mine won't tune below a 2.5:1. Just got the Enhancement Kit in today. Probably have it out this weekend and try it out.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

I’d be interested In how you find the performance of the enhancement kit, and how much it adds to the weight and portability with the extra loop section

[@pale_2111]

It's on Alpha Antenna's website. I believe it's listed around $295. Comes with a tripod, a booster cable, clips and an adapter for the antenna to put on the tripod. There's also additional add on items as well. I got the carry bag and rig mount.

[@KK6USYHamRadioAdventures]

That looked like a FJ Cruiser one of my favorites! I have a mag loop but don't use it much great for turning away from noise but tough for QRP which is about all mine is good for, 20 watts max I think. Good video keep it up!

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Thanks Chuck. I love my FJ, not so much the mag loop !

[@VA3OSO]

That's a good pup! I really like your radio.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Thanks

[@jasonbrambach6957]

I agree with others assessment of loop antennas. I once bought Chameleon F-Loop and the TX was no good on 40 M so I sent it immediately back. It was my early days as a "green" Ham! Chameleon Antennas were very gracious and I still buy gear from them (something on order right now, actually.) But I have switched to KM4ACK efhw, Aerial 51 404-UL (asymmetrical Inverted-V from Spiderbeam via Vibroplex and QRP Guys 3 band vertical or their 9:1 with random wire. Much more efficient, versatile and no more severe disappointments. 73 es tu de KY9I

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Agreed... my mag loop is gathering dust now. I did a POTA activation this morning with 10 watts and a Packtenna EFHW very similar to KM4ACK's antenna.

[@glenhoff1443]

Great video, really good effort and your woof woof friend is so well behaved. Good to see a mag loop in use! 73

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Thank you. She's the star of the show.

[@truckinguy92]

I have to say I was very unimpressed with that antenna, especially considering its price point. It also seemed to pick up quite a bit AC electrical noise as well.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

It's gathering dust on a shelf now. Maybe one day I'll give it another chance.

[@neupy88]

@@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam ill buy it off you lol

[@elkabong6429]

Might you have done better with an end fed wire?

[@elkabong6429]

K9 with his canine!

[@gonzalocamper9924]

Congratulations OM, very nice Setup... Just two observations that may greatly improve your outings with the Mag Loop. Fine tune the antenna with a Field Strength Meter, don't put too much stock in the radio's SWR meter. Second, I think you should try a smaller feed loop 1/5 the size of the main loop. 73! CX1GU

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Thank you

[@DaDitDa]

The AL-705 (like all loop antennas of its kind and size) is an extremely inefficient radiator below 20 meters. For the AL-705, even at 20 meters efficiency is likely somewhere between 10 to 20 percent. In general, all small (about 1 meter diameter) single loop antennas are significantly inefficient below 20 meters -- especially those that use coax cable as the radiator loop. Due to a small loop's efficiency limitations, for QRP operations I'd recommend CW or a digital mode -- not SSB. Ken WA8FCI

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

I may give it another chance but stick to 20m and higher. Or if I ever get into portable digital modes it may work out better

[@jorgecuadra9798]

Hello from Santiago of Chile. 73's CE3PSD

[@jamessims3844]

Do you spot yourself on the POTA web site? Seems like an easy enough thing to do, if you have cell service at the park. Maybe more hunters will find you?

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Believe it or not yes, I was self spotting a few times but even that didn’t help much.

[@tekspeditionplanet9109]

Thanks for showing the AL-705 in action. Just picked up an AL-705 out of curiosity, and am in the process of getting it QRV. On your video it appeared your SWR was running high. The best I could see was 2:1, and on your first contact the SWR was off the chart. Was 2:1 the lowest you could tune? May account for the absence of contacts, or as is often the case, the band conditions sucked. I'll be experimenting, but right now we have a bit of miserable weather keeping me from going outside.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Thanks for your comments. The antenna has a very narrow bandwidth, like with all magnetic loops. Sometimes it can be difficult to adjust the AL-705 due to "hand capacitance". When your hand is tuning the knob, it shows a different swr than when you pull away your hand, which makes it very difficult sometimes. There is a kit you can add to provide better performance but that adds to an already expensive antenna so I haven't tried that. Good luck with this and I'd love to hear how you get on with it.

[@tekspeditionplanet9109]

@@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam got it. I used to have an MFJ mag loop but it had remote tuning. It worked, but I think a simple dipole performs better. Some of the trade offs of going with compact size.

[@davidhook1980]

You were in the same park and he gave you a 53? I'm sure there are ways to increase efficiency. Might want to google and see how others are doing it.

[@frankwc0o]

Why is your IC705 in RF PWR mode? What is that? You will see it on the right hand corner of the screen.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

That is indicating that the Multifunction knob is controlling the RF Power output. The knob can be set to different functions and I usually have it set to RF Power. Whatever it is set to will be labeled in the top right.

[@G7VFY]

With all that space available, you went for a tiny little loop. Virtually ANY wire antenna, with or without a pole will easily out perform a magnetic loop. All you need is an end-fed half wave, setup as in inverted V, or a simple dipole or doublet antenna (dipole fed with balance / ribbon feed will FAR out perform a magnetic loop! I can't believe you two could communicate with each other, IN THE SAME PARK!!

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

You are right about the location being ideal for larger antennas, but my aim was to make the mag loop work. I have another video soon where I use an EFHW at the same location.

[@jens00zander]

You must remember that small loops work OK as Rx-antennas but are terrible Tx-antennas. The reason is simple - the antenna is physically small and is not able to pick up as much radiation (the received signal is proportional to the antenna area). This problem haunts all "compact" antennas, regardless what the ad says - there is no way cheeting basic physics. Look at the relationship between the Antenna area (aperture) and the Gain Ae = Gain*lambda^2/(4*pi) - from this you find that an ordinare dipole (Gain=1.6) on 20m has, even though its a straigth wire, an (equivalent) antenna aperture of about 50m^2 (500 sqft) - the loop antenna phsyical size is say max 1 sqm (10sqft) . This means that the loop has a gain that 50 times (17dB) less than the dipol. The combination with 10 W QRP is of course disaster - you loose say 5 S-units compared to 100W and a dipole at 20m. At 40m the difference is 6 dB (one S-unit) worse . On the receive side this loss doesnt really matter on HF (where amplifier noise is neglectable) as your receiver can amplify the incoming signal (almost) arbitrarily much - so for RX small mag-loops work fine. Most RX-loops on the market have built in preamps to compensate for the gain-loss. A 50X preamp is a piece of cake but on the TX side you would need a 500W PA to match the dipole. This likely the explanation to your difficulties making the P2P QSO.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Thank you for showing the difference between rx and tx performance. It’s especially important with qrp.

[@ronancullen4565]

your SWR is waaaaay out, did you not tune it for noise first ? look at your swr m8

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Yes I did. It's very hard to tune to a low swr. Hand capacitance makes it really hard, I had to tune it away from resonance then when my hand is away from it see if the swr is lower. Quite honestly I'm not going to bother with this antenna for a while.

[@ronancullen4565]

@@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam ah ok, i use the Chameleon F loop and honestly its amazing, the tuning is exact

[@ddaddybass]

I worked the exact same set up today. Called cq for about an hour and a half……no contacts. 😩

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

QRP can be tough especially with a compromise antenna. Gotta keep at it !

[@frankwc0o]

If you tune to the 20 meter band for SSB, how many times do you have to tune it in the Phone portion of the band? Meaning if you tune it at 14.300 can you still have a good SWR at 14.117? thx.

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

Hi Frank. No you would need to retune every 10khz or so. It is very narrow banded

[@kd9kck376]

You are very unlucky. :( Also that mag loop looks a bit small for 20m or 40m. Probably not very efficient meaning your QRP output even less.

[@KREllis-vr1ix]

I'm still VERY surprised ICOM teamed up with Alpha Antenna for this antenna system. Alpha makes OK products but they're VERY overpriced compared to their quality. The US military even called their products subpar during a recent incident where alpha was used as a subcontractor. I've owned TWO Alpha verticals and they're OK for what they are...but would advise building a simple end fed or dipole for 20 percent of the price.

[@TXLorenzo]

I think ICOM was doing a little marketing hype trying to persuade people you could do everything DX with a compact kit, backpack, radio and loop antenna. The reality is that it is hard to beat a good tuned wire antenna for portable operations. Its probably not as sexy as a picnic table top loop antenna though, lol.

[@forgetyourlife]

The loop is no good.

[@rogergarywoodland7171]

for its size its the best antenna you can get.

[@forgetyourlife]

@@rogergarywoodland7171 throwing an endfed into the bushes back there would have been better.

[@DaninVirginia]

Not at all impressed with Alpha Antenna products!

[@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam]

My experience is only with the AL-705, and their customer service is excellent.

[@KREllis-vr1ix]

@@K9KMVTheUnluckyHam hmmm. Questionable take is questionable.

[@marcclarke01]

Always test at home before you go out in the field. Don't make a video and give excuses. Tacky.