ICEY IVES VS MENNO | REDBULL BC ONE WORLD FINALS 2024

[@Warren_Flatt]

being "original" doesn't mean you're good, especially doing the same "original" low risk "flow like water" moves. If being original and not dancing to the music, hit your beats or even doing some god damn top rock ffs means you're good then Raygun is the real GOAT. she's original too.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@Warren_Flatt That’s facts! Great analysis, I respect that. You definitely have a solid point. High risk, high reward right? Lol That’s why I feel the musicality is what helped separate the skill level in terms of technical difficulty and with timing. Appreciate you stopping by and giving your thoughts! 🤙🏼

[@totalunconcern]

being truly original, weaving in subtlety, details, new ideas and transitioning things together in a different way from others is taking more risk than hitting obvious moves on obvious beats. Menno is your favorite bboy's favorite bboy for a reason (unless your favorite bboy is generally one that has no originality themselves, looking at some of the angry ig stories out there lol)

[@Dminsdomain]

@@totalunconcern for sure! I have the same out look for any dancer, again even though some things can be repetitive but also taking moves your already have and repurposing them in different ways can also be within the same effect. Just depends on how the audience perceives it I guess. I definitely was salty at first on my IG story 😅

[@Warren_Flatt]

@@totalunconcern if weaving in moves and being subtle is original then there's really no need to battle. just crown Menno the champ from the start because hitting beats, killing the beat and dancing to the music don't mean jack according to my favorite bboys.

[@totalunconcern]

@@Warren_Flatt of course it matters and Ives has so much flavour but hitting the "woooo" just wasn't good enough to beat originality and flow here. Menno lost a lot of battles this year too where he straight up got out danced.

[@richroc2480]

I'm just being honest... I never understood, and I’m probably never going to understand, how Menno manages to win battles year after year against so many incredible b-boys with what seems like the same rolling-forward-and-backward moves. Don’t get me wrong-he’s a good b-boy, but there’s no way (and I’m open to discussing this with anyone in the world) that he’s the champion they’re trying to sell us. Respect to Menno-I’m not hating on him. He’s doing his thing, and he’s good at it. But I honestly don’t understand what’s going on with the judges. Menno has been doing the same rolling-back-and-forward moves for 15 years, along with jumps, turtles, and jackhammers, and yet he keeps winning battles. I’ve watched him live maybe 15-20 times, and yes, he’s a very good b-boy, but so are millions of others from around the world. In my opinion, his level of difficulty hasn’t changed much-it’s like he’s been doing 3/10 moves for the past 15 years. His toprocks are, honestly, terrible (sorry to say that). I know some people will think I’m just hating on Menno, but I’m not! His presence on stage still comes across as a little shy kid, just as it did when I first saw him 12-13 years ago. And yet, he’s winning everything. Maybe I’m the one who’s wrong, and I just don’t see things the way the judges do. Otherwise, I can’t explain any of his titles. As Damian pointed out in his video, so many other b-boys put in an incredible amount of work, showcasing high-level difficulty, and yet they still lose to him and his rolling-side-back-and-forward moves. It just doesn’t make sense to me. As I said before, don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on Menno. I'm just trying to be objective and honest and trying to put my POV into it. I'm pretty sure that one of the main reason why Icey lost it was MONSTER shirt... You know what I'm sayin! @Damian ty for video dude! Keep up!

[@Dminsdomain]

@@richroc2480 LETS GO! I hear you loud and clear 🤣 I agree, no disrespect to Menno but (as stated in an earlier comment) I didn’t see him matching the level of energy, musicality, and execution Ives was bringing. While both top contenders, Ives was in his bag all night and was outclassing every opponent. I would have loved to have seen him and Samuka in the finals. Both were pushing themselves extremely hard that night. If we exclude the reasons of favoritism or bias judging based off articles of clothing. I am not seeing what the judges are seeing, I understand video footage more often than not don’t fully encapsulate the in person visual and feeling. But given that, Ives energy is very contagious through and through. Ives had checked off so many things in his rounds while it seemed Menno had a hard time keeping up. Respect to both dancers and congrats to even being on that stage I appreciate you for watching and dropping your input, your opinion is valid. Thank you! 🙏🏼

[@Somkamji]

This comment sums it up very well, also was shocked by Mennos toprock

[@Somkamji]

I commented this concern under a video analysis of impact (famous judge) on KZbin and he just told me that it's no toprock battle

[@richroc2480]

​@@Somkamji Did you ask him about the rest, if it wasn’t a 'toprock' battle? Well, if it was a rollback-forwards and side-to-side battle, I wouldn’t ask anything about the toprocks, because he would clearly be the winner against anybody in the world. Just asking for a friend :P

[@buddyboye4203]

O don't think the shirt has anything to do with it.

[@keshiki27]

If you're worrying about Copyright Claims, use footage from other sources like Stance or Lawksam.

[@ZennyReacts]

Menno won fair n square. Ives needed to do more to win. Taking off your shirt doesn't count lol I have a full break down using the Zenny Point system on my page. Ives is dope though. Blessings

[@Dminsdomain]

@@ZennyReacts I don’t see what you are seeing but I respect it and would love some insight. I will check out your breakdown, thank you for coming through to watch and voicing your opinion 🙏🏼

[@paulinyeesx2580]

I really respect Menno as a dancer, because he has become a cult player in the world of breaking. It cannot be denied that he has his own style, I also agree with that. But you have to remember that breaking duels aren't based only on one or two evaluation criteria. There are at least 10 of them that must be met to win the set. All they say is that Menno is original, has its own style and fluidity. Cool, so it meets 3 evaluation criteria, but what about the remaining 7 criteria? Creativity - was it enough for Menno? Unfortunately, I feel like Samuka and Icey showed more of this diversity and ideas. If I were a judge, I would expect Menno to show something more from round to round, something different, something that would make me say "fuck, that was awesome." And it's actually hard for me to remember the differences between his first round and the final one because it looks practically the same. Not to mention the fact that he has been showing the same moves for a decade. Technique - he is very good technically, but are his sets based on freezes all he offers? After all, breaking is absolutely packed with a variety of figures. Power moves, toprock, footwork, drops... These are the basics that are missing in his performances and include breaking technique. Musicality - is practically zero. Menno doesn't stick to the rhythm, he doesn't emphasize the beats in the dance. After all, this is also the basis and one of the most important ones. First dance and then acrobatics, at least that's what I was always taught. Menno's performances come across as a patchwork of random transitions between movements regardless of how the background music works. Dynamics and energy - more noticeable in opponents who stood on their lashes and swept the entire stage. Menno looks a bit as if he just woke up and was trying to do his morning exercises while still half asleep. It's not exciting at all, it's too boring. And breaking has a hint of charming chaos to it. Battle tactics - I also didn't see any interaction with the opponent, no response to what the opponents showed. I had the impression that he had already learned his movement formulas and no matter what the other player on stage showed, Menno showed what he had already learned automatically. Additionally, personality, charisma, how he conveys emotions, and finally the cleanliness of the movements and their correct finishing are also assessed, where Menno also didn't perform perfectly. And now everyone can say that I'm nitpicking, but damn, if these criteria are for a reason, it's expected that the winner will be the one who meets all or most of them. Menno's talent cannot be constantly covered by the originality of style and smooth flow. This is not enough.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@paulinyeesx2580 😮‍💨😮‍💨😮‍💨 I love this analysis & breakdown! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 I agree wholeheartedly, I also believe he was kind of up there just running through the motions “Playing it safe”. Ives and Samuka were staying consistent and pushing the envelope farther, you watched and couldn’t help but get hyped with the high level of enthusiasm, energy, commitment, timing, etc. Students of the game hungry for the experience and chance to prove themselves to themselves. Watching them was very memorable throughout each round. Yes, while Menno may be original in his own right with flow and conceptual movement. For me it lacked that level of enthusiasm and excitement, show us you love being up there and that battling the next generation that is to uphold value and tradition in a field you are successful in already. Thank you for watching and taking the time giving us your breakdown! I love seeing the passion everyone has for the true artistry and athleticism come through in conversation. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@bhanuprakash6305]

Menno took it. I think he had better execution, while both were on point with the music

[@Dminsdomain]

I don't understand what you were seeing, but I respect your opinion as it is valid. Is there a specific moment you can point out?

[@bhanuprakash6305]

@@Dminsdomain Okay. So the breakdown goes like this - Round 1 - Goes to Menno cuz of his orignal moves and transitions. Ives was good too, but Menno was more original. Ives also had a small mess up when he landed on his back. Round 2 - Goes to Ives. Ives was hitting those freezes on beat. Menno was down a little, and as you said he did miss landing the stab freezes on beat. Round 3 - Menno takes this. He gets his control back in terms of executing his moves and transitions to music, for example the small dragging pause which he made to that beat and the rolling transitions at the beginning of his round. Ives was hype, yes, but after the Jack Hammers he was lost a bit with his movement. Ending with some standing threads. This is also considering how original their moves are compared to the rounds that they had done in the previous battles of that night. It was a close battle, but Ives fell short on that 3rd round.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@bhanuprakash6305 Fantastic breakdown & great analysis! I completely see where you are coming from. I had Ives for the first and second round while I felt more that Menno just didn't bring it in the first round. Seemed like he treated it like a warm up and Ives raised the bar which he continued into the 2nd. I can agree with the 3rd but so far I think you nailed it. Great job! Thank you for dropping in and letting us know your thoughts, very much appreciated

[@ZennyReacts]

10:00 who is Sam????

[@Dminsdomain]

@@ZennyReacts Samuka

[@eeduardo64]

I like your frustration pose. I will bite that with your permission of course lmao

[@Dminsdomain]

I just attempted (failed) to go Super Saiyan lol, by all means homie use it to your hearts content haha

[@ecliqxse9591]

Icey was on fire 🔥 with the details.. I guess they don’t want monster energy to win over red bull…lol

[@Dminsdomain]

@@ecliqxse9591 That’s pretty much what this all boils down to unfortunately. But with that being said, we all know who the real champ is! 🥶 ❄️ 🧊

[@paulvincentmorano6404]

Luv U bruh

[@Jucky1]

7:55 lmao I feel you bro

[@Dminsdomain]

Honestly! Lol I am glad I ain’t the only one 🤣

[@Floorslug]

Feel like people only watch this one battle without watching the other battles then claim something wrong. Gotta get the full picture of what they did the other rounds including repeats.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@Floorslug Very true, it’s definitely better to get the full context. I watched the entire event live and practically felt the same during Menno vs Samuka, but everyone is free to make their own conclusions and opinions from their respective perspectives. I appreciate you tuning in though and for sharing your thoughts ✌🏼🤙🏼

[@Floorslug]

Cool cool. Keep up the good work and breakdowns man. To me, if this was the 1st battle I give it to Ives. It’s just tougher in the later rounds to not repeat but it happens. Kid David calling it out in the commentary was unexpected though lol.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@Floorslug I can see where you are coming from and yes pulling out all the stops or using everything in your arsenal to get to the finals is prolly the best route to take. It can push you to get creative on the spot with things you already have or work something out. But yea that was crazy lol I appreciate the support and good conversation 🙏🏼

[@819phoenix]

Icey won for me.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@819phoenix I agree whole heartedly!

[@paulvincentmorano6404]

Same for me

[@Dminsdomain]

@@paulvincentmorano6404 I know that's right!

[@paulvincentmorano6404]

I read other comments in other video cause Icey Ives wearing t-shirt of Monster energy for me it's so bias Meno robbing again the championship I didn't mean was not a good dancer but Icey Ives is firing explosives💣💣💣🔥🔥🔥🙏😇

[@Dminsdomain]

@@paulvincentmorano6404 No for sure I am not trying to discredit any dancer. I am solely basing my opinion off the timing, musicality, and the actual dance aspect. Ives checked all the boxes for me. Menno (again) proven he is great, just didn’t bring it to the level Ives had tonight.

[@EvolvepilatesAu]

Respectfully disagree. Icy got psyched out and underperformed in that final compared to all his other battles. If you want to take a champ like Menno out in the final you have to leave no doubt. No way i could watch that and say Menno got smoked... Even the round he mistimed the freeze, icy hitting them was shaky at best.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@EvolvepilatesAu Ok ok I see you! And that’s ok, I respect we may not agree. I see where you are coming from When Ives hit the freezes they were not completely solid for sure but in my eyes still better than not at all. Along with that he just seemed to be able to rock and groove while making it look fun. That for me is a major factor but again we have different perspectives which is all good 👍🏼 I appreciate you for watching and voicing your opinion 🙏🏼

[@lloydthesage1164]

The Audacity of Menno calling out the Repeat when he is being repeating as well like 30% of the night. But I would’t blame him, he did his thing, its the Judges fault.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@lloydthesage1164 Yea I didn’t understand that call either. Unless he didn’t repeat at all and most of his moves all look similar (joke) but yea it was definitely a bad call on the judges. But we have all been there 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@buddyboye4203]

Audacity? I think you mean hypocrisy. Audacity just means someone that takes bold risks. It sounds like it means something though.

[@Dminsdomain]

@ It was a bold risk to say Ives was repeating when he is in fact doing it most of the time as well, which then leads him to being a hypocrite lol Right? Either way sounds right to me but hey I’m just tryna see mfs battle 🤣

[@buddyboye4203]

@@Dminsdomain mmmm I don't think it was a bold risk rather a battle tactic. Menno always does that. I've seen him use the crash sign when the person didn't even crash against Wing in the Final. All manipulation of Judges

[@907Tappato]

Good coverage 🎉

[@Dminsdomain]

Thank you! Very much appreciated, glad you enjoyed it 🙏🏼

[@Kevin-fp6gk]

I think. We need a universal dictionary of rules to avoid those misunderstand. I really prefer traditional moves with musicality than somethings thats not remember breaking. Show menno dancing to your relative. And ask if this looks "break dancing". Sure not. And, sure the mennos move are not easy. But we cant compare it with some power moves. And probably menno created this style to not feel tired. And wheres menno toprock? And beat killing? Freezes (and not that flow freezes). Is that a dancing ?

[@Dminsdomain]

@@Kevin-fp6gk I appreciate your input and you certainly have a point to make. This statement is also proof that a lot of things kind of boil down to perspective and personal preference. Even though I can agree traditional moves (foundation) executed perfectly with musicality is top tier. We do need some wow factor (power) to push the creativity of the genre and raise its ability to grow. So it’s hard to pick between such different styles because it comes to a point of your just picking the winner based off what you personally liked watching. Which goes against picking who (again) executed perfect technique, timing, and musicality along with the individuals creative flow. Everyone has their own interpretation of dancing, but there are guidelines, principles and techniques that are to be followed in order to become a top contender. I am still on the side of “Ives should have won” but what’s done is done and just have to take it to the chin. Thank you for tuning in and I appreciate your input! 🙏🏼💯

[@Wyse_thoughts]

Menno is like the bboy version of Nikola Jokic. What he does out there don't look impressive at all but somehow its effective....

[@Dminsdomain]

@@Wyse_thoughts That’s what I am starting to see 👀 definitely a pattern here lol but at the end of the day respect for both some people will always see things differently and it’s neither here nor there but as long as energy was shared through positivity is what really matters

[@TheGuider]

Menno's not even trying at this point, because it was a political decision to begin with. Just like they made sure Hong10 wins last year, since the documentary about his 3 wins had already been put together before the competition even took place. BC One is a joke at this point, and it has been for the good part of the last decade. Menno has absolutely zero musicality during basically every single round of his, has extremely basic toprock, let alone with any character in it, repeats every transition and freeze, and people still dare talk about how original he is. You can speed the rounds down and see just how little detail there is in most sets, how low-level and simple they are, how absolutely little-to-no foundation he has, and yet people still put it all on the "flow he has" -- which he obviously does -- as if it is justified to cover for the lack of everything else. For a decade now, as an unpopular opinion as it may be, I believe it reached a point where Menno became a cult-like bboy. Meaning, that you don't really have to prove anything - you just believe and accept he's good while raising your hand towards his side, and if you don't, "you just don't understand breaking". And then you start going into the details, and you realize that there isn't much going on in there from a logical standpoint that fits the actual criteria of breaking. Which is exactly what happens when you take out the politics and bias from the judging. Just how he rightfully lost to Pocket, and to Shigekix, despite them fitting the typical definition of "just throwing moves around". High-difficulty dynamics, musicality, foundation, combined with creativity and attitude is what this dance entails. Having just one of those, while "flowing" around the others is not best of the best material, let alone four times.

[@Dminsdomain]

@@TheGuider PREACH! But a little louder for those in the back please! 🤣🤣 I couldn’t agree more, I understand we all don’t have the same perspective going into this but everything you said is what I based my judgement on. (Again, not trying to discredit anyone) but in this type of environment where people are voluntarily judged for the performance they give, Ives was clearly in his bag. He checked off all the criteria, was it 10 of 10 for each component? No, but overall a better performance than what I seen from Menno. Appreciate you stopping by and watching, your input is heard & respected 🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@Neenski]

Bro menno whole style is original. Icy out here doin the same moves as everyone else

[@Dminsdomain]

@@Neenski I can respect your input. I also never said Menno isn’t original. He been in the game for decades and has definitely worked hard for a lot of his accomplishments, no denying that. But Ives has a solid amount of signatures, also original and his musicality was unmatched. Although breaking can a lot of the times seem repetitive, but everyone draws inspiration from others and so with that being said both are unique in their own right. I appreciate you voicing your opinion and thank you for tapping in 🙏🏼

[@Neenski]

@damianDMiNguerrero never said u wasn't saying that. Just saying that imo mennp wins as the moves he did were based of his own original style. This is very hard to beat if as a dancer you can't showcase your own originality. You mention icy has signatures yup true but I didn't see them in this battle. Icy did have better execution and better "musicality" I say it like this as hitting the "wooo" in the song isn't the be all and end all of the whole beat. I guess I may have a different mindset I danced from 99 till 2014. I retired because I was bored of seeing everyone dance the same. Sadly i still see this alot. Big respect to the OGs still kicking and winning and thankyou for your response Damian 🙏 👍

[@Dminsdomain]

@@Neenski Ayye I like the way you see things! And I agree with being as original as possible 👍🏼 And he did run through his arsenal in the earlier rounds and had to push himself at this point. But I get what you’re saying completely, but on a different note, were you also a breaker? Or did you do a different style? You definitely put some time in and I respect that, you should get back into it and could be an advocate for helping others find originality! Couldn’t hurt right 🤷🏻‍♂️ I need to show love to fellow dancers, I myself am a popper but we might just need to be the change we want to see.

[@Neenski]

@damianDMiNguerrero I was straight up bboy my man.

[@Warren_Flatt]

what a load of shit. this is a fucking bboy dance battle, it's not coming out here and doing your original moves like an exhibiiton. Icey actually danced, responded to the music, the crowd and his opponent. Menno came out and did choreographed sets. it didn't matter what music was being played, it could be god damn chinese opera music and Menno would have done the same moves. I did not see one other bboy that did moves and danced like Icey. I did see Menno doing the same moves as and 2014, 2017 and 2019 though.