ICIS

[@daviddenyer1679]

Internal freedom, being an addition/ alternative to the 29:35 imposition of natural selection and genetics, seems a highly plausible alternative reality, which is just one of many illuminations, that I am most grateful for - thank you

[@ideacastilluminate]

Thank you very much for watching!

[@projectmalus]

thanks for the conversation.

[@ideacastilluminate]

Thanks PM!

[@waynelewis425]

Thanks again Richard and Matt for another wonderful dialogue

[@waynelewis425]

So, when a system learns to minimize stress over time, or minimizes surprise spontaneously, we are looking at a least action optimization like the maximum entropy principle. First order self- organizing systems like a whirlpool, or Barnard cell, or even an unboundaried auto catalytic set always obey such a principle. But organisms construct novel constraints so as to lengthen rather than shorten dissipation path length ( stress if you will). It seems that there is a difference in kind there that thus far in my experience only deacon/koutrafinis teleodynamic dynamical depth offers a satisfying explanation for. That is, there is a succession of construction of meta constraints such that distinct ontological level emerge ( and emanate down of course). So when we say cognition, agency , adaptation , learning are a matter of degree I’d say yes….and no …in that emergent meta constraint levels are truly different in kind.

[@waynelewis425]

At the very least Richard, you have given real reason to consider rejecting the continuity hypothesis in favor of cognition first at some basal level kind of origin.

[@waynelewis425]

At the very least Richard, you have given real reason to consider rejecting the continuity hypothesis in favor of cognition first at some basal level kind of origin.😊

[@Footnotes2Plato]

I am nodding along while reading most of this, Wayne. Biological organisms have discovered a way to harvest novelty in the present by anticipating future perception-action (enactive) loops. Thereby they free themselves from obedience to the past. They become agents of their own evolution and not just atoms falling in the void. But what about those atoms and that void? Just more organism-environments! Just more perception-action loops. In Whitehead's terms, the passage of nature is the process whereby subject-superjects reiterate and renovate one another "to the crack of doom." Continuous creation.

[@waynelewis425]

Importantly even basal cognition as described occurs at much faster timescale than inheritance by reproduction which adds to plausibility .

[@waynelewis425]

Certainly agree on anticipation, but periodicity seems a lot more restrictive than the kind of anticipation Rosen et al speak about based on faster than ambient time mathematical analogues

[@findingwisdomdotme]

Did the author and college suggest what kind of anticipation it might be?

[@waynelewis425]

@stevenpham6734 I know both of them. In his marvelous book " Anticipatory Systems " Robert Rosen outlined a general model of how it is that living systems can " pull the future into the present" but of course Anticipatory models can be in error. This by the way the reason that John Vervaeke points out that the very systems that make us general problem solvers also make us very susceptible to self deception ...with the limited periodicity based anticipation this would not be the case. There is a vast literature on Anticipation since Rosen. Check out " the handbook of anticipation " for a review

[@waynelewis425]

@stevenpham6734 Matt is a Whitehead scholar, philosopher, and cosmologist. He is well aware of the relationship between basal experience in the Whitehead pan experiential sense and Anticipation based on periodicity.

[@Michael-nt1me]

Considering ...change, evolution and transformability.... in an unfolding, open and ongoing, integrally developing, and conscientiously advancing universe. sincerely ...random, reactive, reasoning, and reconciliatory.... realms of relevance realisations

[@Michael-nt1me]

Considering ... •the random mutations of genetic info-systems •the natural selections of neurologic info-systems and •the creative transformations of semanto-symbolic info-systems .... ...static, kinetic, dynamic, and ascentic.... ...sequence, pattern, logic, and fit.... ...mobility, flexibility and adaptability....

[@projectmalus]

The grooves in the shear pin hold the two kinds of life, in that cycloid, rocks that dance and rest and the non-resting dancers. Positioned on either side of the One, and a part which remains there in the vertical spinning shaft. Meant to break since the complexity moves to the one as power not dancing. Since each pin breaks into 3 pieces, where 2/3 as 0.66666..... and pi as 3.14159....become 3/2 which is highly relational in the geometric ratios spread, volume and area in spheres, cylinders etc. A problem when knowledge is recorded, which becomes rock-like. It needs folding back into the world as care or is not intelligent!

[@waynelewis425]

Richard, what does problem solving mean unless there is the meta constraint of self production and maintenance to generate care. It seems to me that only processes that must care about their relationship with their ambience and have the capacity to enact an afoordance relation with their ambience can even HAVE a problem to solve.

[@waynelewis425]

For me, all memory outside of say von Neumann architecture is indeed compressed, but it must be not recalled, but reenacted. That is the context constrains what is “ recalled” ….fidelity is not the point generally

[@projectmalus]

four points of view when a tiller hits a rock and breaks the shear pins, with a fifth as statistical if the pins can get it back together like an emergent Humpty that always presents their best face to the world while folding care within, like a food forest. To the machine with the energy source moving to the future event (the creative energy moving thru the vertical shaft, with emanations of increasingly larger diameters of pipe also vertical that need tying with the pins in order to spin) that hitting the rock is the future with agency in the rock since the rest of it (the process) is vulnerable. Where does design come in, with knowledge of that future event?

[@_ARCATEC_]

From 'Whiteheadian sense: Through the lens of Intellidoscope... Actual Occasion of Universal Experience •((uAEo)(OeaU))• Manifestation afforded by Inevitable Knowing. •( ki (m ) K𝐈 ( M) ki )• I guess these concepts are ones of applied relevance realisation or what I refer to as that within the foci of attention. XZY+Q coordinates included •X( z Fq(A)Z( a)Qf z )Y•

[@projectmalus]

Memory as moving with matter resting in universe dance, touch points that allow rest for restless dancers as people, beyond their body.

[@waynelewis425]

I’m not the first to say this, I think Mike Levin has as well certainly, that the caring and organizational closure is a ratchet without which anything more than basal cognition is impossible. So even though cognition in this sense was likely always there, the ratcheting effect is something like the first major transition.

[@InterfaceGuhy]

Why yes… you HAVE heard of Damer…