FireSide Chats | The Land | The 100-Year Old Unresolved Question

[@HamandisheMpofu]

Thanks to Sizwe and Khaya. Myself and Vusi are having a free simplified lectures on land issues in SA among others,and it's quite a brilliant educational discussion and I'm loving it 😄.

[@csmit4674]

Vusi I live in New Zealand now. My dad gave for free, half of his land to his workers. They worked for him for 18-23 years. They got everything for free the first year with a good harvest season. 4 years down the line they are 3 miles in debt. My dad is helping them to get out of the situation. If you worked the land it doesn't mean you know how to farm. Farming today consists of marketing, finance...ect....al different sectors you need to handle. It's is a business. There's people on the ground and then people managing it. Like any other business.

[@katlegomashile6989]

Good point...maybe the convo needs to shift to management of such an asset...instead of the intransitive meaning of farming

[@wandapanya3403]

I always come back to this conversation! This is one of the best discussions ever held on the topic! Brilliant minds - Brilliant Perspectives! Thank you gentlemen!

[@MMphego]

Every African child should watch this.

[@praisebotha5123]

i cant stop watching this interview. its so rich in ideas and thoughts

[@CryptoHustleLive]

What's missing here is the responsibility us as black people have to create an economic power house. Everybody is shying away from this kind of talk. Blaming others is easy. Just grabbing the land wont fix anything without clear economic strategies to move forward.

[@nhlanhlanxumalo3988]

I totally agree with you @Hardcore...people must learn how to be financially literate and how to build strong, profitable and ethical businesses.

[@hlanganisambatha614]

Where are we going to build our businesses? on rented properties/land from the white man? They took the land and they own it. We may build businesses but without ownership of Land, wealth will only be just a word.

[@lennelncube3403]

This is for every African child.Very powerful .M in Zimbabwe and i wish my generation will get this message.Thank you Vusi,Sizwe and Khaya .Well researched and executed..

[@joshuaomolo6206]

This is such a serious matter, it did not need the soundtrack! Great insight by three Kings

[@koketsomokone2975]

From the beginning I can categorically say that we have not framed the question in the right way. At all. because Land expropriation without compensation is a what without a why? A how? For who? Or even to what end?

[@MxolisiNgidi]

2020 still watching and learning from this amazing discussion 😎

[@veronicambebe4598]

Thanks allot the land openaall the doors if handled well🤴😊😊

[@TheKapzela]

Vusi, your content needs to be distributed widely. I'm of the opinion that the information shared by your guests brings a necessary light on the topic. Vusi, the movement for or against the topic your have tabled needs this kind of debates. A lot of effects, reactions or vibrations caused by issues such as the one your debating need data less emotions in order for accurate decisions to be taken and supported. It is when people have access to these kind of information backed by facts, that they will make beneficial dicisions for themselfes.The questions then, if people don't know what they don't know any lie becomes a possibility . Vusi, widen your reach, your content is on point not just this video even several others.

[@luntukazi4017]

There were many mind blowing moments that are really forcing me to be serious in my thought about the land redistribution/ restoration issue, because this episode made me realize the amount of misinformation South Africans like myself have been subjected to, we ought to seek to inform ourselves more. Thank you to you the Iconoclast team for bring such thought provoking content to us.

[@MMphego]

Improve the sound...It is a little bit distorted, echoed and lower the volume of the background song(s)

[@NellyMfeka]

The background music is distracting. The video is really long and this is not a motivational conversation.

[@KaraboMasemola6408]

“The land is the only thing in the world worth working for, worth fighting for, worth dying for, because it's the only thing that lasts".....Gerald O'Hara, Gone With The Wind.”

[@deilliw]

Good discussion.. 2 years down the line and we are still nowhere closer to a solution.. I think the government is not doing their part as they should. Politicians in SA (like everywhere in the world) are in it for themselves and not the people.

[@thabomonethi7426]

Wow, very informative. We've got a lot work to do!!!!. A perspective on how our currently generation shouldn't have an excuse on ANYTHING.

[@MrMtotywa]

Yes yes sizwe man,townships are prisons

[@sinethembaqashu5997]

I just had to share this....such an eye opening conversation and I will in my small way be part of South Africa's "solution" because it is clear that we have a huge problem. Thanks, now let me leave this office lol

[@siyandachonco]

There are four main imperartives for approaching a genuine land reform discourse. 1) Th Historical factor, gaining land through genocidal conquest, 2) The Consitutional imperative in SA, by tracking 4 consiitutions since 1910 that have sidelined Black people, and section 25 does nothing to redress the injustices of he past, 3) the Livelihood imperative of the poor and 4) the Spritual imperative, that emphaizes land as more than an economic question for the Africans.

[@smiloification]

Great discussions thank you gents. next time work on the audio sound and get it more clear

[@vuyopeter6597]

Brilliant bafethu

[@mrlsv5188]

learnt more than i can even express from the vid. Thnx a lot. however if u can plz improve the volume

[@KaraboMasemola6408]

And the great owners, who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of the dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression. The money was spent for arms, for gas to protect the great holdings, and spies were sent to catch the murmuring of revolt so that it might be stamped out. The changing economy was ignored, plans for the change ignored; and only means to destroy revolt were considered, while the causes of revolt went on.

[@mponisimakhubele9330]

Great conversation guys

[@nwamba4198]

Intelligent conversations...

[@pntshiba]

I am 1 minute in, and the sound track is distracting me so much . Is it possible to get the video without the sound track. I listened to other IC Knowledge bureau videos that didnt have sountrack and they were perfect because the subject matters tend to be thought provoking and require you to be fully present

[@tumpalemwamulima1015]

Impressive discussion,

[@Consolation89]

Brilliant insights.

[@MrDjgwill]

POWERFUL STUFF!!!

[@koketsomokone2975]

Ive always said this, in all matters concerning the development of this country after apartheid we are the guinea pigs. Therefore I agree with SMW on the view Let us explore the dark and unknown. Let us explore new models but let us speak about what we aim to achieve. Is it black inclusion into land based commerce? Is it residential spatial equity and equality? OR is it something else? Can we come up with something that has never been thought of before? We are the guinea pigs, but let us be practical as well...

[@khulanicele6166]

Beautiful content

[@KaraboMasemola6408]

Just like heaven. Ever’body wants a little piece of lan’. I read plenty of books out here. Nobody never gets to heaven, and nobody gets no land. It’s just in their head. They’re all the time talkin’ about it, but it’s jus’ in their head

[@kayaletumangxaba1630]

Great conversation, although I felt there was not enough in the way of practical solutions suggested, the moral question for me is pretty much settled, land reform is a must, perhaps as we move forward, practical solutions should be the focus

[@KaraboMasemola6408]

Until we understand what the land is, we are at odds with everything we touch. And to come to that understanding it is necessary, even now, to leave the regions of our conquest - the cleared fields, the towns and cities, the highways - and re-enter the woods. For only there can a man encounter the silence and the darkness of his own absence. Only in this silence and darkness can he recover the sense of the world's longevity, of its ability to thrive without him, of his inferiority to it and his dependence on it. Perhaps then, having heard that silence and seen that darkness, he will grow humble before the place and begin to take it in - to learn from it what it is. As its sounds come into his hearing, and its lights and colors come into his vision, and its odors come into his nostrils, then he may come into its presence as he never has before, and he will arrive in his place and will want to remain. His life will grow out of the ground like the other lives of the place, and take its place among them. He will be with them - neither ignorant of them, nor indifferent to them, nor against them - and so at last he will grow to be native-born. That is, he must reenter the silence and the darkness, and be born again

[@MxolisiMashiloane]

Other challenges to land that are not addressed are tribalism. There is a huge land where I come from, whenever we inquire about it, we are told it belongs to the pedi people but they have done nothing on it for the past 30 years.

[@kgalanet]

Mxolisi Mashiloane ga o mopedi Mashiloane?

[@incognizack3121]

Same here in KZN, The land of the ZULUs, The we question the utility realised in these past 30 years. Not only don't we know what we want, it seems we also don't know what it really means to want. For if we knew, then the narrative would be different.

[@MxolisiMashiloane]

Tlhompho Kgalane I am by surname but I didn't do sepedi at school.

[@takukaridza1807]

I really loved this civil discourse however the background music was distracting and unnecessary in my opinion😫. I do understand the setting you were attempting to create, great job nonetheless 👏🏾

[@KaraboMasemola6408]

“We need the tonic of wildness...At the same time that we are earnest to explore and learn all things, we require that all things be mysterious and unexplorable, that land and sea be indefinitely wild, unsurveyed and unfathomed by us because unfathomable. We can never have enough of nature.

[@amogelangtshegogill1655]

To whom much is given much is required!

[@belle6414]

If government had invested in education from the beginning we wouldn't be in this situation. They should have built hundreds of top notch boarding schools, with the best teachers, nutrition, discipline and nurturing. All the kids far from schools, street children, orphans etc would have equal opportunities. Land without education is pointless.

[@SandileMntambo]

Amazing!

[@jabulanibuthelezi1523]

towards the end of the clip around 54:00 the sound gets really soft... is it just me.

[@KaraboMasemola6408]

Some of the owner men were kind because they hated what they had to do, and some of them were angry because they hated to be cruel, and some of them were cold because they had long ago found that one could not be an owner unless one were cold. And all of them were caught in something larger than themselves. Some of them hated the mathematics that drove them, and some were afraid, and some worshiped the mathematics because it provided a refuge from thought and from feeling. If a bank or a finance company owned the land, the owner man said, The Bank - or the Company - needs - wants - insists - must have - as though the Bank or the Company were a monster, with thought and feeling, which had ensnared them. These last would take no responsibility for the banks or the companies because they were men and slaves, while the banks were machines and masters all at the same time. Some of the owner men were a little proud to be slaves to such cold and powerful masters. The owner men sat in the cars and explained. You know the land is poor. You've scrabbled at it long enough, God knows

[@khanyambilini1658]

Nice but the sound is disturbing and annoying. Makes it hard to focus on the points shared in this episode.

[@LindokuhleMnisi]

TF??? Is that music in the background when serious matters are being discussed?

[@russelbeukes4592]

love the topic and content however i think you needed a white and black farmer in this discussion.

[@landelisamzantsi6219]

That was the missing part. But it is an important discussion, and it's done in a sober way. This can get us somewhere.

[@mzwandilejanuary4222]

They forgot a critical point: the lack of competency and capacity within state institutions handling this reform process.

[@maureenkekane2566]

sharp minds

[@abigailmolusi6483]

and the cuteness??

[@katlegomashile6989]

What's sad is that there are people like this in this country but the actual people in charge of shit in this country are far removed from this level of thinking n education.

[@hildaforsythe]

"Section 25 is schizophrenic" deep!!

[@csmit4674]

Vusi said nothing to him. He himself explains it very well in another video of him.

[@UnathiGX]

Wow

[@csmit4674]

Show me how would 35000 farmers farms make a difference in 48000000mil people lives. Remember you want to let the people to work the land. They already work the land. Basically you want black people replacing the current workers. It's like changing your child's lunch box by putting an apple in instead of a banana. It is still a fruit.

[@MxolisiMashiloane]

The background music too loud

[@kgalanet]

Mxolisi Mashiloane yall complain too much man now I can hear the music

[@Alwaysat7]

i agree, it distracts from the conversation. They should upload the clips with no background music.

[@mashilomolalakgotla7787]

no need to exlcude the music. the person mixing in the music just needs to know how to sidechain so that the music ducks their voices when they speak.

[@navigatingtechza4303]

I was having a discusion on land with a few friends a while back and they refused this point that Sizwe just brought up kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYTKanmJqbN_gKs , in essence you don't need to know how to farm to own a farm.

[@rupertmarx4750]

“The economics should be secondary” bahahahahahah “the land was stolen” hahhahaha hahahah. Anyway, let’s wait 5 years, these fools will beg us for food. Idiots. In the end this whole land issue is going to tare SA apart, I honestly hope it happens fast.