Id and Epic’s head-to-head - Unreal Tournament vs Quake 3 Arena - Talking Skull

In 1999, Id Software and Epic Games each released a multiplayer-focused arena shooter, just two weeks apart. Would Id defend Quake’s supremacy? Or would Epic steal their crown?
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[@OmegaCoolsterDX]

And then epic did the dumbest move ever and delisted the entire Unreal Franchise from digital stores. Imagine being a company that has one of the best engines on the marked named after their beloved franchise and basically treating it like an unwanted stepchild.

[@unfa00]

EPIC? More like epic fail. It's as if I'd Software taken down all Quake games, maybe except Champions, or as if EA did... wait, EA kills all the games thy make 5 years after release anyway.

[@OmegaCoolsterDX]

@@unfa00 yeah don't even get me started on EA, as for Epic they might as well start calling it Fortnite Engine cause they took a dump on Unreal and then buried it deep.

[@garden0fstone736]

I think joe Biden did that too

[@DrFod]

Epic also shut down all of the master servers for the old Unreal games. I can only think they've done this out of spite because it costs almost nothing to maintain them.

[@ryanlafferty5815]

fking fortnite

[@eclipsegst9419]

Quake 3 wins hands down purely on movement in my book. You move like an Apex Predator, and how fast you can move is all on you not the game itself limiting you. Also Quake 3's Radiant is imho a much faster and better map editor than UT's. UT does have very cool weapons and design theme, but in practice i find Quake much more enjoyable as a competitive game. CPMA even moreso. Nowdays tho, you can play Xonotic, and have the best of both worlds. Amazing game, anyone reading this who hasn't tried it, go do it, its totally FOSS (free open source software) (that means free like free air, not like free beer lol)

[@rolithesecond]

The hit sound is the best thing about quake 3 lol. In quake champions it's even better. Very satisfying feedback.

[@LaggyLuke]

LG goes BRRRRR. So satisfying. Quake Champions direct hit rocket DONK is the best sound in video game history.

[@eclipsegst9419]

Nothing more satisfying than the DING when you get a frag in Quake Live and i also set QC to have the same sound. Playing Instagib and just DING DING DING makes you want to keep hitting those shots. OK maybe one thing is more satisfying. When you get a collateral with the RG in Q3 or kill a flag carrier near base and get that iconic HOLY SHIT

[@Puccini000]

I thought it's a joke build-up, but this dude really is that delusional.

[@1thevm1]

Right?! It even changes the pitch a little when your target is low on health.

[@rolithesecond]

@@1thevm1 The change in pitch is actually dependent on the damage done. Little damage, high pitch. High Damage low pitch. You can also change it to sum up the damage done in "one attack", so the LG will go from high to low pitch as damage increases.

[@Sahelantrophus]

i've never seen anyone make so many baffling points against quake 3 like you did

[@HejtzerIV]

Despite the fact that I prefer Quake 3 over UT, I know that there are things that UT does better, but man... This is probably one of the worst videos I've ever seen, like an objectively bad video. eg. "Unreal's UI isn't the best either, but look at Quake 3's UI it's so fucking bad!": Proceeds to show quite a normal UI. "The hitsound is horrible! The game is unplayable!": Lmao. And how can you call Quake's maps boring? (Maybe except for the ones in space. I wish that there at least were some stars, nebulas and stuff on the skybox) UT has way more basic shapes and ideas for maps, UT has more boring maps tbh.

[@Lucy2Juicy]

I hear Quake 3 has a particularly amazing original character. Hmm I'm giving it to Quake 3, no bias

[@wentworthmiller1890]

Unreal's music was/is always unreal. UT's OST is the best programming and gym music ever produced.

[@dariusus9870]

No doubt!

[@purebaldness]

Quake 3 has the fundamentals down, hence why the eSports scene was _significantly_ bigger. What makes many professional players view Q3 as the pinnacle of deathmatch isn't so obvious on a surface level. The balance is finely tuned (though the damage of the railgun was/is debatable). They honed in on what made Q2's deathmatch good and removed a lot of the things that wasn't necessary (including weapons, funnily enough). As others have said, 'strafe jumping' is a huge game changer. UT's dodge mechanic is stiff by comparison. Meanwhile, the weapon roster in UT is both spam oriented and hitscan heavy. But that doesn't take away how cool those weapons are. I love UT99, but for a video oddly focused on Q3's hitscan sound and the UI as being majorly off-putting, I felt it was worth sharing.

[@brunotvrs]

We get it you prefer UT, but Quake's physics and movement are unbeatable even today. :x

[@rekware9320]

Mate. You didnt mention the UT soundtrack. That tracker sound is ICONIC! I program my game to that soundtrack.

[@unfa00]

Same :D UT'99's OST is such awesome programming music. Probably because I pretty much know it by heart, so it doesn't distract me in the slightest.

[@hvadkant6066]

THIS

[@daytonaaaargh]

Yes, I totally agree. (Check out the remixes aswell - there are some quite good Unreal Tournament Music Remixes out there by NU, Mothership Loudpeakerz and many more) However, the Quake soundtrack by NIN was iconic aswell and Quake 3 had Frontline Assembly on it, one of my favourite industrial bands. So it's not that easy for me to pick a favourite, yet I still am with Unreal on that one :)

[@rustynuts89836]

All about the soundtrack

[@darylallen2485]

In the 90s and early 2000s, I was also someone who preferred Unreal Tournament over Quake. However, as time has passed, I came to understand why Quake is a venerated franchise. The fact is, Unreal Tournament exists because the Quake franchise existed, not the other way around. Steve Polge made such great bots in Unreal Tournament because he made something of a prototype bot for Quake 2 prior to working on the UT bot. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that everyone who worked on Unreal Tournament also played Quake 1 or 2 and were sincere fans of the game. 1:41 - Were you aware Team Fortress Classic is based on the Quake 2 mod Team Fortress? Quake truly is the origin point for fully 3d first person shooters of any genre. I agree that the Unreal Tournament bots were more lifelike, but the Quake bots are no slouch. One thing I enjoyed about the Quake 3 bots are, the creator of the bot apparently created the bot as a sort of capstone project for his masters degree in computer science. As a fan of A.I. in general, it was great to be able to read his publicly available thesis where he explains in detail how the bots work. Anyone can find his work if they google "j.m.p van waveren quake 3 bots". Its an interesting look into A.I. technology well before all of the machine learning techniques that are popular today. Its remarkable to me that a product which is effectively a toy (video games) is sophisticated enough that one needs a masters degree in computer science to make and understand it (Quake 3 bots). So, as someone who agrees with how amazing Unreal Tournament is (UT 2004 is my favorite game in the franchise), I urge you to soften your views on Quake. Without the trailblazing work of Id software on Quake, its likely none of our favorite FPS games would exist as we know them. Personally, this awareness of Quake history has inspired me to purchase the original Quake and play through it on the Meta Quest 2 in VR. Quake 3 is also playable in VR because Id Software open sourced their source code, which can't be said for Epic Games and Unreal Tournament. Its hard to put into words what its like to dodge Quake rockets in VR. Quake 1 and 3 are simplistic by todays standard, but playing them in VR gave them new life.

[@mauriliosampaiojr.774]

Opinion of those who know and played both games. Very useful, thanks.

[@Kimfakkel]

TF was first in Quake 1 not 2 :)

[@maybepumpkins]

Interesting theory about Domination. But CTF was far more popular in online and competitive play. I think the reason is that, instead of three fixed points of interest, the two flags are points of interest which MOVE, so the action will focus on different parts of the map during the game. This makes no two matches feel the same. You were right to point out that truly good CTF maps are difficult to find. I think they are also difficult to create.

[@VikingBoyBilly]

My dad surprised me with this one. I was obsessed with Quake and Quake II, and he came with a shocker christmas present (or was it my birthday?): QUAKE III. Hey, the internet wasn't good enough to forecast future games yet. Well... I can't say I was unsatisfied with it, but even when I was a dumb 13 year old I was thinking "where's the single player? Now there's LITERALLY no story, ID just gave up the pretenses." But the fact I could just easily go play online games on it was jawdropping. And I didn't know why I sucked so hard because I hadn't figured out mouselook and WASD yet...

[@TalkingSkullGames]

It really did take a long time mouselook and WASD to be totally accepted standard. Thank you for sharing!

[@jimikonttaniemi8305]

haha my boy Billy , i had the exact EXACT same experience growing up and quake 2 was my first fps game . and then later quake 3 learned me the WASD movement keys and mouselook. which indeed helped me learn to be much skilled quake player. its funny and interesting at the same time that i could relate to this so perfect lol. and talking skull needs to soften his views on quake overall. i would think unreal tournament would NOT exist if it wasnt for quake and half life . quake 1 and quake 2 actually brought some real game changing history when they came out . and thanks to quake . half life came into the world. and later unreal tournament. quake 2 actually started the whole E-Sport scene . so without quake there would never been a unreal tournament . as quake has the roots of the real fast paced fps multiplayer game that did it first aswell. just look at quake 1 and quake 2 . you see the similarities and those games came out before unreal tournament. no hate on unreal tournament it is aswell a iconic multiplayer game that came with those very nice summoners voice with "headshot" "dominating" which aswell was impacting the whole gaming scene history . i loved it too!

[@kettenfaust]

Quick note on the UI & maps in both games: You could pretty much tweak all of what you mentioned to your liking. The Q3 'dink' was really helpful to judge how much dmg you did to the opponent. The maps you call bad here are all simple maps, meant to teach the players the game. Remember when this came out, not everyone was used to FPS yet. Q3's engine was cutting edge at the time, and used in many many games from that era and beyond. One last important point to note here: Both of these games had awesome modding communities, that gave birth to some great mods and maps, that had ppl playing for years after each game's release. Especially Quake. Maybe a topic worth exploring.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

Loki's Minion. Alliance CTF... Those were the days

[@AMarchant]

Funnily enough, someone made a popular DeathMatch mod for UT which featured the Quake3 hit sound. When it came to making a decision between the two titles, the only deciding factor for me what that UT ran at smoother frame rate on my rig. UT is still under heavy development, both the core game and on the fan side of things, I've invested (and continue to) a good number of hours writing custom script for UT.

[@LeakyBuffer]

UT was it, we tried Q3 back in the day when it dropped but immediately went back to UT with all the custom maps and mods. The asthetic of UT was just so much better and still is. It runs fine on steam deck as well.

[@rolithesecond]

You should look into movement in Quake 3. That alone makes it leagues better than what you can do in UT.

[@Dirty2D]

I played quake 3 arena so much it's insane, we had LAN parties and played lots, we did play some unreal tournament too, but it's just not the same. Quake has better graphics,, weapons and weapon feel, sounds, the feel of the movement system... Unreal had some cool weapons, but the animations made the enemies look goofy and stiff.

[@MrJC1]

Bingo. Q3 was where it was at.

[@Yominication]

Look me in the eyes and tell me Q3 had better weapons than UT.

[@MrJC1]

@@Yominication they felt better in Q3 yes.

[@Dirty2D]

@@Yominication Yeah it's not even close, the plasma gun, the rocket launcher, and the railgun are legendary, the only really cool weapon from unreal was the ripper. Now i didn't just say q3 had "better" weapons, unreal does have some cool ones, but they are not done as good as in quake, the models are clunky, the sounds often don't really fit, and the animations are shaky and i find them lacking when looking at what quake 3 did with smooth models, animations, and the feel of the guns. Im not saying the guns from unreal were all bad, just not in the same league as quake.

[@IM_AlphaSS]

Unreal literally defined my childhood. UE1-UE3 were so user friendly I use to make maps for modded servers. Jeeez the nostalgia!

[@kylefletcher1002]

I liked quake but man UT was just badass always lol and UT from 99 the GOTY had music I can hum back to life this many years later

[@ermonski]

I love both games. I loved Quake III Arena for it's core deathmatch mechanics. I loved UT99 for the weapon variety, gimmicks, and AI. There are AI mods for Quake 3 that makes playing with bots feel great. I have both games chock full of mods and maps, these are the only games I need.

[@darylallen2485]

this is the first I've heard of an additional mod for quake 3 bots. You're not simply referencing Quake 3 Team Arena, right? Can you name the mod?

[@ermonski]

@@darylallen2485 Brainworks, Hopper Mod, and Spearmint Engine. Hopper and Spearmint are exe files. Hopper Mod has more difficult bots that strafe jump. Spearmint also has enhanced AI, plus other features like controller support, 4 player split screen, enhanced lighting, better FOV views for 1080p-above. I have both since I can play mods with Hopper Mod engine but Spearmint only has vQ3 support. Brainworks is just a mod.

[@jamesmcconnell5625]

The difference in quality seems a bit..... Unreal. I'll see myself out.

[@TalkingSkullGames]

Id must have been really... Quaking in their boots.

[@krzysztoflange7484]

Some people don't even realize those bots from 2004ut are still best written ai in fps game history

[@mattonthemoon225]

I think in 1999 I would have agreed with this video. Now, after 23 years I totally disagree 😅. Quake 3 is the only arena shooter that I’d play now, if I have a bunch of time, because its frenetic, simple, you feel satisfied at every frag with its weapons great feedback. On another hand UT99 now feels old to me (I loved it back then) and the cause is ... the legacy. UT after 99 became to be more famous for the graphic engine than for being a strong game with a lore, I think that the extreme success you mentioned was the first cause of its decline.

[@TalkingSkullGames]

I think it's a little odd to judge UT99 for the impact of its sequels, but it's absolutely true that nothing feels quite like Quake. Both games are inarguably fun, and both get better the more you play- UT99 because you learn the maps and don't feel lost all the time, Quake 3 because you start to be able to drown out some of the poor polish. There's still no single gameplay interaction in any arena shooter that quite matches Quake 1's rocket tag. But I value what UT99 adds to the genre more.

[@mattonthemoon225]

@@TalkingSkullGames yes you’re right. But I don’t think that there were no single player part in those games. UT99 came with a complete single player session that was a great tutorial for online games. Quake 3 had a shorter tutorial part but you can arrange a game in 2 minutes with bots, both were great games.

[@TalkingSkullGames]

@@mattonthemoon225 I never said there was no singleplayer. Not sure what you mean? I talked about bots a lot in the video.

[@J4MESOX4D]

This was a huge rivalry back in the day and despite picking up both, I always favoured Unreal Tournament over Quake 3 Arena. UT just had so much atmosphere with the interactions, music and weapon effects. Q3 was just flat even at it’s most chaotic.

[@joel6376]

>domination in particular showcases everything that works in the arena shooter genre You don't understand arenafps - the default gamemode, dm or tdm, already exhibits these traits. Teams control areas of the map with item spawns and then go on to score more kills and win because of the domination style play that TDM causes. DOM simply adds another layer on top of this, and in many cases this confuses players as items are still important. It goes from having a few areas on the map (armors, quad, specific weapons) to having all these as well as three additional control points for scoring. It waters down the (admittedly, misunderstood and obfuscated) base game that works without DOM. >DOM gives focus and direction to frantic blasting tdm already does this in a soft manner via item spawns. >unlock rich arena shooting compared to previous attempts By the time UT was launched there was a plethora of custom quake1 and quake2 maps and a huge number were superior to the out of the box maps that shipped with quake (and available shortly after launch in q2 from id). This statement does a disservice to mappers like ztn, headshot, pingu, danimal, peej, bal, retnial and so on. In fact the maps these guys made in q1 were superior to the vast majority of UTs. Some were ok, but the mutli-atrium, interconnected masterpieces of the custom quake scene. In a way this allows even less excuses for the mess of maps that q3 shipped with. Being a ut player I met many quake players that picked up ut (in reality they bought both since they were quake players) because it had ctf and they played threewave in q2 - so they had no ctf. They would have played q3 had it shipped with ctf. This was a mistake on ids part.

[@M3atY]

you're so biased against quake. honestly, Quake was the better shooter. Unreal was "fun" to play but not as balanced as Quake 3 was. to this day there are people playing Quake live still. huge community here in my country, UT is dead af lol.

[@xxraptorsc0pezxx]

0:55 HOLY CRAP!!! I haven't seen Tribes gameplay in years danng man that's crazy

[@IAMEYI]

Bro you remember Tribes too!!! We're legends my friend!! The late nights! OMG I had Mortal.Kombat skins! 😂😂😂 Like we were there before all these FPS these kids tripping over hahaha

[@unfa00]

4:27 I found that in CTF ordering all bots to attack is the best option. Defense asks the opposing team to come to your base and inevitably take your flag - attack will not just push enemies back but also increase the chances of taking their flag to both prevent them from scoring and... to score for yourself.

[@joepwrsurge]

This is my favorite topic & nostalgia.

[@dethtrain]

Grew up on q2 and q3. Played tons of clan matches in ctf, jailbreak and rocket arena. Can't play the way I did then... my reaction time back then was ridiculous. UT felt ungodly slow compared to Q3

[@ArcaniumPrime]

The widescreen vs not widescreen thing shouldn't make that big of a difference to me, but it does

[@TalkingSkullGames]

Old game stuff. I'm sure I could have found a widescreen mod for Quake 3.

[@kettenfaust]

@@TalkingSkullGames Just play QuakeLive.

[@Doncarnage001]

Funny enough, i still play UT99 with a bunch of friends on a weekly basis and we have this mod that add the Quake ''hit'' sound on UT99 because we like it.

[@AlphaEnt2]

I was born in the 90's, so i was lucky i was able to play both games at the same time because i had an older brother. I didn't had internet until 2012 so i was never aware of the rivalry between them. Although i prefer quake 3, i won't deny that unreal tournament felt like a more complete product interface wise. I still play both games to this day, and i have both the unreal and quake franchise perenially installed on my computer. That being said, yeah, i am biased towards quake 3, for several reasons i won't mention. Id games led me to modding, which led me to programming, to actually releasing a game on steam, using a sourceport of one of the engines they made. Anyways, well edited video, so keep going at it.

[@specialfred453]

Unreal Tournament on the Epic Games store was abandoned when Fortnite got big. I don't think I'll ever forgive them.

[@Reigam4]

Facing worlds is deeply connected to my childhood ❤

[@wiiu42]

Pretty sad seeing this now that Epic has cancelled the UE4 Unreal game and pulled all previous Unreal games from storefronts with the exception of Unreal Tournament 3X.

[@TheShmrsh]

Just torrent it

[@chongleebnw]

I played a lot Q3 and tried its map editor, gave up. I played a lot UT99 and man the map editting was so cool and friendly. And that turned out to be a life-changing event to me, as I started to make custom maps and went into the game industry as a level designer. That was before UT2K3 came out, and I am still working in this industry till today. Q3 was very fun with its mods and maps. UT99 was already very fun with its base content, not to mention tons of custom stuff. Both are nothing like today's games and it was a golden age of lan game, a time we can never go back to.

[@eclipsegst9419]

What did you use back then? IMHO GTK Radiant and even moreso the newer NetRadiant were heads and tails above the UT or Source editors.

[@chongleebnw]

@@eclipsegst9419 I remember it was GTK Radiant, but I preferred UED at that time and soon it was UED in UE2 where staticmeshes became much more used.

[@eclipsegst9419]

@@chongleebnw Ah. Q3 had curve patches we call them. I can still just sail thru making things in Radiant. I will actually even use it for other games rather than their own newer tools, by exporting to Blender via .obj and converting to FBX, Like CryEngine i have ported a bunch of buildings for.

[@chongleebnw]

@@eclipsegst9419 Yeah the curve patch thing was cool back then. Q3 had better rendering tech :)

[@davuvnik]

I loved both, but you're right. There's a reason I have spent tons of hours playing unreal tournament and have more fond memories of specific gameplays unlike quake, which was only a wow factor but I don't remember even playing it much in multiplayer

[@dex6782]

I had same experience. I played UT first. After UT I tried Q3 and it felt so outdated out of gate. Everything felt worse compared to UT.

[@frankjaeger2565]

I would say most of your critiques are fair, and agree that ut is a better game in almost every mode. BUT, Quake is still the better game when it come to duel. Quake duels play as strategic matches based on timing and map control, which isn't the case in any ut game. Ut is based mostly on aiming and movement, not so much on outsmarting your opponent by positioning yourself according to when items are going to respawn. I think this might be the reason why there have been Quake pros who have been able to win major internarional tournaments in ut (Fatal1ty, Stermy, Winz) but not viceversa. Still, I think Quake Live is a better version because of a better respawn system, more balanced weapons and better polished maps, even though the game has been downgraded in the last 10 years

[@SoDamnGangsta]

Damn that’s crazy cuz quake 3 shits on unreal tournament

[@RobertHazard]

at least Q3 had curved surfaces. I can't get past those chunky archways

[@A_Sense_Of_Purpos3]

Quake 3 takes the cake for me, Specifically CPMA(Modded quake 3 arena with strafe jumping and bunnyhopping/air control)

[@urazoktay7940]

Quake 3 is a legend, i still remember the hype surrounding the game. Quake 3 was bigger than Unreal Tournament.

[@IAMEYI]

Yoooo if you remember dial up ONLINE SHOOTER GAME TRIBES...THEN YOU MOST DEF A OG! WE WOULD STAY UP ALL NIGHT PLAYING, TRIBES, DIABLO, AND ELDER SCROLLS DAGGER FALLS 💯 IM ANCIENT KIDS...I CAME OUT WHEN CALICO VISION AND ATARI, WERE HOUSEHOLD CONSOLES

[@neny002]

aaaa man this games..... goat.... there wont be ever such a good games

[@mstreurman]

Sadly enough, Unreal Tournament (99/goty/2003/2004/3) is not purchasable anymore on any digital platform and Unreal Tournament "4" got abandoned by Epic in favour Fortnite and the plug to this game will be pulled this month (Jan '23) we will however get a free to play "remake" of Unreal Tournament 3 Black Edition called Unreal Tournament 3x on Steam.

[@eclipsegst9419]

Really? I think they will release them on Epic. I was suprised they even left them on Steam as long as they did after the Epic Store was created. If not oh well, don the ol eye patch and grab it from your favorite warez site.

[@mstreurman]

@@eclipsegst9419 Well, apparently Unreal Tournament 3x will be released F2P on Steam... So, I dunno... but yeah, just grab them from your favorite Bay :)

[@eclipsegst9419]

@@mstreurman 3 was actually my least favorite. I preferred 99 and 03. I already own them but it will be interesting to see how this goes. Other abandoned games now have custom launchers and servers and you can download them from the people that make the launcher.

[@Koruvax]

6:36 The hit sound. Not sure what to tell you but in between cfg magic and getting audible confimation of hits (my eyes are a bit shit) its invaluable.

[@tusk1142]

as of jan 25th of 2023 we have an actual winner

[@alexanderroodt5052]

RTX remix works on UT2004. Its fun having a look at as a tech demo.

[@corneliusaugustusiii9382]

Quake 3 is playable in VR now and it’s excellent!

[@MartinSchmuckVR]

Played both but Quake 3 will always be my number 1😉

[@GolAcheron-fc4ug]

I miss old epic so much. Oh how they have fallen 😔

[@killer397]

Does anyone know the name of the track around 2:20? Need it :)

[@AMarchant]

That's "Run" from the Unreal Tournament OST (kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYWYnY17oZV-nrM). My favourite track is "Skyward Fire"

[@whylie74]

Had both, played UT the most and for the longest.

[@klocugh12]

That UT remake has been in alpha since like 2015 lmao, safe to assume it's not happening ever. I don't think it's Fortnite that killed it, arena shooters in general are sadly not much of a thing online anymore. I do agree 2004 is awesome though, especially for fleshed out single player.

[@kill_em_dafoe]

What I took from this breathy take is that John Carmack shot John F. Kennedy.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

this is the top comment and it will not be surpassed

[@stuvo1977]

UT ftw

[@Screamus]

Why did you advise to dodge the alpha remake if it was free? None of the UT games are available right now, but the UT alpha was amazing. The community was already making maps for it.

[@whatsgood8452]

I love both games

[@smiteriuszryceriusz1258]

ok so why enemys in ut scream after die ? u cen scream after die ????

[@fed402_1]

Quake 3's fundamental gameplay may be "basic," but the depth in it's gameplay and levels (and the dopamine overdose I get from destroying bots with sick rails and rockets) is so enjoyable. The level design is also way better than Unreal's. I would watch some of MXDash's videos on Quake 3 levels to understand what I'm talking about. It's hard to describe the pure enjoyment I get from Quake 3 and Quake in general. It's a flow state, I don't think about anything else except the game, sometimes the levels because I love mapping, and... the game. But also, Unreal is a nice, laid back and enjoyable experience compared to Quake's adrenaline rushing combat, both online and offline. Unreal is super creative, Unreal is fun, Unreal is what I want to play when bored out of my mind and tired. Which is why I love it, it's simple. You can still frag even if you, sometimes, are only armed with a crappy laptop and crappy mouse like what I sometimes use when I don't feel like sitting by the desktop. Unreal has a lot of charm that the disorganized Quake franchise sometimes has less of. I give both a 10/10, and will like your video despite my... grievances with the Quake 3 section, to say the least.

[@PetrBouda-un9qo]

Unreal Tournament is the winner for me. Better in every aspect, including soundtrack.

[@hurykles99]

I used to grow up with Quake 3 but when i grew up i decided to buy and try out UT... just out of curiosity. And i got hooked. More than with Quake 3. From bot matches to playing with real people... all of this felt like pure fun. Yeah sure Quake 3 is more balanced but... where is fun in that.

[@bastiartgames]

As someone who played and love both games extremely much, the quake critiques here were extremely stupid...

[@v509-cassiopeiae3]

After 24 years of war between both parties it is finally time to end it. They were both brilliant games in their time. I was UTler.

[@andrewlabine]

Make fusion of those great games please

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

Back in the day, you had to choose between these games because they used different 3D rendering APIs, implemented in different 3D hardware; 3dfx GLide for UT, OpenGL for Quake. You could run UT in GL mode, but it was ugly and its performance was poor. So when I ran a VooDoo 3, I was all about Unreal Tournament. When I finally picked up a GeForce, I switched to Quake 3. I'm glad I had ample opportunity to play both. They each had thriving mod and content producing communities. Basically everything this video says is true. UT stomped Q3, as a game. I thoroughly enjoyed both though

[@virtuosoification]

being luckily an happily still ! the owner of a voodoo 5 i remember this little detail but only because you brought it up

[@NerdyGrounds]

I gotta disagree with you on one thing. Ut4 is pretty awesome, in terms of how the game plays at least. For nostalgia reasons, ut2004 was my favourite but I just can't help but love how ut4 plays. Too bad fortnite killed it :')

[@tehf00n]

technically the community working on it killed it. There was only a handful of those devs who moved to Epic's fortnite team. However the control those few people had in the scene was tremendous. There were so many low level developers trying to get content into UT4 that they blockaded most people from even entertaining their designs and thoughts. A lot of the community wanted it to go back to it's UT99 roots in terms of deathmatch but that was never going to happen. The framework that is left within the UT4 project isn't good either. It works, but it's not as extensible as it should have been due to the Unreal Engine 4 tech at the time (it was not entirely modder friendly although it's built to be modular the Asset Registry and Manager weren't upto the task until later). However the current UE5 Lyra Project is perfect for a community comeback. It would take some time though.

[@etica8]

I play quake 3 daily. I used to play UT99 for years as well. And I agree! quake3 suck balls on all fronts. The only reason I stick to Q3 is the community and cartoony feel. UT99 is much more gritty

[@d3m0cl13nt]

Personally I would argue that the hit sounds in q3a are as iconic as the UT99 announcer, I've seen it be ported to other games as well, even ported to UT lmao. Either way, I am a big fan of both games, though I prefer UT2004 to UT99 despite the marginally worse map design IMO.

[@jfitnesshealth]

gamepro actuall gave q3 a bad review. in same issue gave ut better score. they hated q3s gfx and UI, no altfire

[@umnyirapumnyirap]

Unreal Tournament Wins Flawless Victory

[@illyay1337]

I like both but played a ton of quake 3 and lean more towards quake 3. Everything in q3 art style wise feels very well made and polished. Unreal has kinda janky looking models and uglier levels. The level design and gameplay of unreal is definitely more fun and varied. There’s a tooon of good content in UT. I never minded the weird quake 3 hit feedback for some reason. I guess it was to help people know they hit something on the terrible networking of the time. Not sure why they chose this sound effect instead of just making the crosshair show it in some way like cod did

[@CRBarchager]

I've gotting back to UT99 with the 4.69 update. I never liked the new versions UT2003 and UT2004. Though the graphics got a bump I found the gameplay slower than UT. The maps where WAY bigger even the re-designed FaceWorlds and Deck16 just seemed to be slower paced.

[@spelaoxy]

I loved UT but then i tried Quake 3 and it was better for me..and as we all know quake is still alive but UT dies on January 24 2023..RIP Great work Epic...

[@RedHawk25Gaming]

Nah, this news does not impact UT99. The community has been actively updating and fixing the game so it runs smoother on modern hardware, along with making sure its online services are functional. Epic gave the oldunreal community permissions/source code so that they can maintain Unreal and Unreal Tournament 1999, and they have been so for a few years now.

[@Rroff2]

Eh? Quake 3's AI plays all the other game modes fine, I actually modded in domination for Quake 3 and the AI even manages to play that, with a little coaxing, without having any specific coding for the game mode. Quake 3's bot AI was mostly coded by J.M.P van Waveren aka Mr Elusive who was widely considered one of, if not the best, AI coders of that era, though the UT bots always felt a bit more organic to me.

[@herpy2925]

And now Epic is shutting down the master servers. Thanks a lot Epic! Now you will soon have to fiddle with an openspy master server for ut2004.

[@andrewlabine]

So, I think you have to play at Urban Mercenary, I think it's a Great Game

[@tehf00n]

Wow. You just nailed it. You went a full video without me disagreeing on anything. So here is a story I hope you will read and indulge me in. I am a professional freelance game developer. I've worked with Unreal Engine since 2010 exclusively. The first game I got a copy of with my first PC was Quake III. Needless to say I've played Quake since 1 and so it's natural to play Q3 when you like deathmatch. But when I played UT it was like Quake 3 never existed for me. UT2004 in particular helped shape my decision to go into game development. I was a web developer toying with the idea of moving to game dev. One particular map and mode intrigued me. Onslaught(warfare) mode and the Torlan map. It was a perfect gameplay loop that could keep me playing for months at a time. Just one map and mode. Eventually UT3 released and I started to hang out in the IRC channel where some developers idled. I ended up talking a bit to the Torlan map developer, Hourences, who also made tutorials for unreal engine. He is now an Epic Evangelist. He was also leading a team of people making the Hardcore Old School Low-poly Map pack for UT so I decided to use the editor and make my first deathmatch level. From there, with a couple of other tutorial sources, I decided UT3 was my jumping on point. They moved from the old Canvas UI system to a free license of Scaleform, which was perfect for me as I was a flash developer. In 2010 I quit web dev and went fulltime Unreal Engine generalist. I owe it all to UT2004, the Torlan map, Hourences and the other tutorial assists from Ambershee and Mike Allar. I originally wanted to work on the UT4 game but after seeing the disarray and favouritism being shown to specific people I decided it was too much drama for me. When the selected devs moved to the Fortnite team I completely expected it. It's not Epic's fault however. Fortnite was a gateway to Unreal Engine 5. Without fortnite we wouldn't even be close on the technology in Unreal Engine 5. They used it as a test-bed also for production so we have the game to thank for that too. Unreal Engine is currently the best engine for multiple different requirements including open worlds and detailed metahumans alongside Lumen's global illumination with/without raytracing and Nanite bringing photogrammetry level assets into games without framerate loss (and sometimes with a gain). It's been part of me for almost 25% of my life and it's inspired me to great heights. I will leave you with a theory I have. Epic just revoked a bunch of sale titles because of legacy technology and old licenses expiring, but they are bringing some back with a regenerated online subsystem in Epic Online Services. This will bring new life to those games because it's cross platform. People are sad about it now, but its for the best. With this in mind, I think Unreal Tournament 5 is in development. The Lyra Project was created instead of releasing a UT5 for launch. I thought this was odd but then I studied the project and it's literally built to house the development of many types of games, but it comes with a ShooterGame ability plugin that is essentially the foundation of creating an Unreal Tournament game (like it was with mods to add gameplay). Don't count out Epic going back to it's roots and releasing a super polished Unreal Tournament game with UE5. Good luck and thanks for skimming this epic post (no pun intended) :D

[@BassMessiah100]

UT looked better, Q3 played better

[@kettenfaust]

For me, Q3 played & looked better. But UT had so much more features and content straight out of the box. Both titles are still fun today.

[@rolithesecond]

Quake 3 looked better by far, much more modern engine, used for many other great looking games. UT was good, but not better.

[@luxinterna3370]

5:20 I don't agree. games like Turok (2) or Perfect dark were a lot more creative. UT had 3 interesting weapons, nothing more.

[@pooshrulez]

UT99 was better than Q3A in all aspects but one - Duel. Unfortunately (for UT), the latter is a huge deal. Thanks to the movement physics (a collection of bugs that have turned into features), Quake's 1v1 battles were (are) way superior to what UT could ever offer. Against humans, of course, because Q3 bots are ridiculously dumb.

[@Trazynn]

Domination was so underrated. Way superior to CTF. I think it's because most servers enabled teletranslocators which ruined the mode.

[@Lucy2Juicy]

I without any bias will have to give this one to Quake 3. No particular reason just uh.. Haha yeah

[@colinm5548]

I like both, but unreal had me hooked

[@Psychonaut-im3zz]

You totally forgot Half-life multiplayer. And yes, Halflife 1 is better than Halflife 2. My ranking: Halflife/Unreal Tournament/Doom (first 2). Bots in Unreal Tournament were impressiv tho. We did play Quake 3 Arena back then, but mostly Halflife/Unreal. Just more fun/playable.

[@jmpiv4]

Who the hell is EED?

[@TalkingSkullGames]

EED SOFTWARE :D

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

@@TalkingSkullGames happy Eid to those who celebrate

[@marcje007]

Good sale, but still.. Hands down for the best shooter: Quake. With all respect, UT was more like a side game, but Quake was the one to go. Quake 3 had also a bigger life span than UT.

[@ThatRetroAussie]

I don't have much to say on either but if my limited experience is of any value, I find Quake 3 faster in pacing whereas Unreal Tournament seems to be particularly slow in comparison, though I admit the Bots in Unreal Tournament are better than what you get in Quake 3, as for the weapons, i find Quake 3's Weapons better for the simple fact that in that a greatly aimed rocket shot can kill in 1-3 shots depending on distance, health level and any powerups the opponent may have whereas the rocket launcher in Unreal Tournament seems to do lesser damage taking at least 2 great aimed shot to kill. Maps wise, Quake 3 Takes the cake for alot of "Indoor" Arenas, but Unreal Tournament takes the cake for alot of "Outdoor" Arenas, personally I am biased towards ID Software so for me Quake 3 has better maps. Overall, both games are great, they have their own strenghts and weaknesses, I'll always lean towards ID's Games so yeah there is some bias but meh, I grew up with alot of ID's greats, so no real surprise.

[@kummingchang6031]

unreal vs quake years

[@derpydashdjblazekin]

What really sucks is that only one of these two franchises still exists to buy on digital stores well the other got sacrificed for a crappy Battle Royale that's infested with little kids

[@thelaborpeasant]

I'll sum up the video Lol... "Unreal Tournament did literally nothing wrong. It was chiseled out of marble. Quake had sound effects I hated and so was actually a dog vomiting up feces" 😆 It became apparent to me that this was pretty much a hit piece on Quake 3 when I heard the talk about bias towards Quake at launch followed by the example of "they hem and haw around about which may be better". That's not bias lol, that's comparing and contrasting two good and extremely similar games. Also noticed how comparing and contrasting the cons of each game you failed to scroll down and let us see if there were any more for Unreal I won't lie, I'm firmly in the Quake camp here, but I came to the video for a fair comparison to possibly get a new perspective. However, I was let down when realizing the irredeemable items surrounding Quake 3 were that you personally didn't like the HUD and certain sound effects lol. The AI differences I can give you credit on but the rest is really just personal preference over any real game design

[@neuroscope9052]

I disagree, Aesthetic of Q3A is good, sharper textures, cohesive soundtrack, better geometry, bezier curves, the feel of it as an FPS is the pinnacle of FPS, it's technical execution is pure excellence. Easy to play & difficult to master, the skill ceiling is sky high. Unreal has always been less optimized than id software's offerings demanding much more. I concede that UT had way more maps and mods back in the day but the simplicity of Quake DM maps are attractive to me also.

[@pickupmasterygame1991]

cool.

[@uteruspuncher4619]

Sorry, but in terms of pure Deathmatch nothing will ever beat Quake 3. The weapons, the hit sound and the physics were implemented intentionally. All these things you criticized are actually done the right way. But I have to admit that Quake 3 besides Deathmatch didn't offer anything else, Unreal Tournament did.

[@grzybair]

What is exactly the point of bashing q3 or ut99 in 2022/3? Each game has different philosophy and game design choices, different strokes for different folks. I kinda get the vibe you do it to feel better about yourself.

[@exodous02]

I played both quite a bit but I have to admit I played UT tons more. It just had awesome mods. I can't even remember quake 3 having mods. HL multiplayer buried them both for me, I played that way more in multiplayer. EDIT: WTF is will all the bot talk? Didn't you go to lan parties? I'd have to be really bored to play with bots. I guess at the peak of me playing was my Jr. and Senior year in HS and our computers pretty much lived in the computer room. We all had comp. science and could set up our computers in the back two rows that were empty in the computer lab. We'd all stay after school for hours playing. Maybe my case was special but playing with bots sucks, and you will always suck if that is all you play with. After these games online was huge, I had my first cable connection when I moved out and there was never a reason to have bots anymore as I was always online.

[@blackskrulldragon]

Unpopular opinion quake 3 > unreal tournament

[@Muddy.Teabagger]

i all ways liked UT more than quake, loved quake 1/2 but UT was just more fun for me over all.

[@laser00]

im late to the party but i have to comment here due to the fact that when i saw UT99 i had to get a pc! after all those lan parties and online games, just let me say this : UT by far the better teamgame and quake more for the skilled tryhards out there kinda "isingle carry gameplay"