Idea for reopening the North Dartmoor rail route

[@simcatbob]

After closure of the line(s) there SHOULD have been an act of parliament prohibiting the building of any structure on the existing permanent way. Too late now, no more line to Ilfracombe or Barnstaple to Bideford/Torrington and beyond. All that infrastructure lost when, I dare say in the future, much could be put back to good use. Mid-Devon badly needs that extra link, one I rode on in my youth whilst at school at Tavistock. Give the people what they need. Thank you for the interesting video. Brings back memories! Good Luck to All.

[@neilgallacher4793]

You’re suggesting that there should have been long-term thinking?!?!?

[@michaelhopkification]

I'm hoping that both the Dartmoor and Teign Valley Lines could reopen one day in the future in between Exeter and Plymouth. The alternatives routes would be away from the sea, so that might be a possibility to electrify the railways in Somerset, Devon and Cornwall for electric trains.

[@stratac30]

What people fail to realise that closure was based on economics of the day. In the 60’s the car had became very affordable and easier for people to own, the railways by then especially in places like rural Devon and Cornwall were catering for very few passengers, by where trains were virtually running empty, even with modern DMU rail cars replacing the more expensive steam traction they were still running empty, so closure was inevitable. The line to keep open was always going to be the Great Western Line due to its better route into Cornwall and serving towns with bigger populations on the Devon coast. The line to Okehampton only survived due to Meldon Quarry. However hindsight is a wonderful thing, with the increase in road traffic at the turn of the 21st century, the introduction of clean modern and efficient rail DMU’s, the invention of Park and Ride car parks at stations to cater for the expansion of foot traffic on the railways meant those communities who had them grew. Then with disaster at Dawlish the question of whether the old London & South Western line via Okehampton could and should be reopened was raised again. There is no doubt if it did, the communities along the route would greatly benefit and see their economies grow. Considering the track bed is in place the cost of reinstalling would be a lot less than installing a completely new route to avoid Dawlish. I for one would like to see it happen, but I doubt it ever will. If one puts it into prospective the cost of the reinstatement would be a mere fraction of what HS2 is going to cost!

[@stephenchappell7512]

Yes indeed the cost would be less than a new line however a cheaper and shorter option would be a new construction following the course of the old Teign Valley line Another advantage of this option is that the larger settlements in south Devon and Torbay would retain their rail link in the event of another Dawlish closure which wouldn't be the case with the Dartmoor option

[@StevenBailey-xv9rn]

Good idea more railways southwest for holidays and environment

[@HSMiyamoto]

In Los Angeles, a small number of wealthy residents in the Cheviot Hills area resisted the conversion of an existing freight line to light rail for years. They even claimed it would be bad for the environment. Eventually they divided the neighborhood between pro and anti rail factions. Today, the former Santa Monica Air Line of Pacific Electric, and before that, the Los Angeles and Independence R.R. -- one of the first railroads in southern California -- is now the very popular E line (formerly, Expo Line) of L.A. Metro.

[@frglee]

Look to the Scottish Border Railway between Edinburgh and Galashiels for an example of a successful recent rebuilding and reopening of a railway line, now profitable and achieving over double the anticipated traffic and responsible for a huge boost in the economy of a run down rural area. This, despite contrarian politicians, austerity enthusiasts, doomsters and nimbys who tried their hardest to sabotage it. In the end, it was decades of local activism and campaigning that largely got this line built.

[@cannadineboxill-harris2983]

I needed to know why they couldn’t dig a tunnel and do an extension for most of the mainline Trains so that they could extend the unused abandoned underground train stations. Why couldn’t they use the part D78 Stock train doors on the sides and also restructure the front face of the A60 and A62 stock which will include the class 507, class 508, class 313, class 314 and class 315 remix and make them all together and also redesign all of them into an overhead wire line trains and also make most of them into Five carriages per units and also having three Disabled Toilets on those Five cars per units A60 and A62 stock trains and also convert the A60 and A62 stock trains into a Gardner 6LXC, Cummins M11, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner LG1200 and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Engines and also put the Loud 7-Speed Voith Gearboxes even Loud 10-Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Gearboxes in the A60 and A62 stock, class 507, class 508, class 313, class 314, and class 315 and also modernise the A60 and A62 stock and make it into 11 carriages per unit so it could have fewer doors, more tables, computers and mobile phone chargers? A Stock Train and 8 Disabled Toilets on those A stock trains. why couldn’t we refurbish and modernise the waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel and make it even much more Larger and extend it to the bank station, making it into a Triple-Track Railway Line so those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden to convert the waterloo and city line Triple-Track Railway tunnel into a High-Speed Railway lines? The Third Euro tunnel Triple-Track Railway line to make it 11 times better for passengers so they could go from A to B. Then put the modernised 11 carriages per unit A Stock and put them on a bigger modernised Waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel so it could go to bank station to those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. The modernised refurbished 11 carriages per unit A stock could be a High Speed The Third Triple-Track Euro Tunnel Train So it is promising and 47 times a lot more possible to do this kind of project if that will be OK for London Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. oh by the way, could they also tunnel the Triple-Track Railway Line so it will stop from Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex so that the Passengers will go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland and Sweden and also extend the Triple-Track Railway Line from the Bank to Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex Stations so that more people from there could go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden more Easily. Why couldn't they extend the Piccadilly Line and also build brand-new underground train stations so it could go even further right up to Clapton, Wood Street can they also make another brand new underground train station in Chingford and could they extend the Piccadilly Line and the DLR right up to Chingford? All of the classes 150, 155, 154, 117, 114, 105, and 106, will be replaced by all of the Gardner 6LXC, Cummins M11, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner LG1200 and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Five carriages three disabled toilets are air conditioning trains including Highams Park for extended roots which is the Piccadilly line and the DLR trains. Could you also convert all of the 1973 stock trains into an air-conditioned maximum speed 78 km/hours (48 MPH) re-refurbished and make it into a 8 cars per unit if that will be alright, and also extend all of the Piccadilly train stations to make more space for all of the extended 8 car per unit 1973 stock air condition trains and can you also build another Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive Companies and can they order Every 87 Octagon and Every 48 Hexagon shape LNER diagram unique small no.13 and unique small no.11 Boilers from those Countries such as Greece, Italy, Poland, and Sweden, can they make Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive speeds by up to 147MPH so you can try and test it on the Original Mainline so it will be much more safer for the Passengers to enjoy the 147MPH speed Limit only for HS2 and Channel Tunnel mainline services, if they needed 16 Carriages Per units, can they use those class 55’s, class 44’s, class 40’s and class 43HST Diesel Locomotive’s right at the Back of those 18 Carriages Per Units so they can take over at the Back to let those Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s have a rest for those interesting Journeys Please!!!!, oh can you make all of those 18 Tonne Boxes of Coal for all of those 147MPH Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s so the Companies will Understand us PASSENGER’S!!!! So please make sure that the Builders can do as they are told!!!!!! And PLEASE do something about these very very important Professional ideas Please? Prime Minister of England, Prime Minister of Australia, Prime Minister of Sweden, Prime Minister of Germany, Prime Minister of Italy, Prime Minister of Poland and that Includes the Mayor of London.

[@john_atco]

With the number of people intent on moving to Devon & Cornwall the need to reopen this route is vital. The route should not have been closed in the 1960,s. If the existing line via Dawlish should be blocked, as it periodically is. A large area of Devon and all of Cornwall have no alternative rail connection. With 1 major road serving the area beyond Exeter the situation now is ridiculous...

[@stephenchappell7512]

The route of the former Teign Valley line is a cheaper and shorter option for a Dawlish relief line which would also ensure that the large settlements in South Devon and Torbay remain connected in the event of another closure

[@greatbritishentertainmentl5636]

The line from Exeter to Okehampton is now running regularly - more pressure on reopening the alternative route via Tavistock to Plymouth?

[@boldford]

At the moment it's be relaid.

[@stephenchappell7512]

That 'alternative route' would cut off huge swathes of southern Devon and Torbay as well as being too long Better to build a new line following the course of the former Teign Valley route

[@devon896]

9 years later Tavistock still doesn't have a railway, Okehampton is back on the national network though.

[@robtyman4281]

Hurry up and just get on with it. This is a line that's REALLY needed........unlike HS2. Any other European country would have reopened this line years ago.

[@neilgallacher4793]

A few years ago I was in a rural bit of Spain, just over the Pyrenees. Went to Barcelona from there, a distance equivalent to going to Taunton from Plymouth. Had a choice of services, including one that took 25 minutes (You’re lucky if you can do Plymouth to Taunton in 1 hour 20 mins!)

[@boldford]

Both are needed.

[@ollylewin]

Imagine closing a railway then needing it again. It's almost like beeching was wrong. A story very apt over the whole country.

[@robtyman4281]

Beeching was mostly wrong. Take the GCR (Great Central Railway) - it should never have been closed. It would be perfect for HS2, as the tracks were built to continental specifications and standard (eg. higher than our own), and the line had large sections where it was dead straight for miles. We are still feeling the impacts of Beeching today.......and all over the UK.

[@ollylewin]

@@robtyman4281 Fully agree with you. The GCR is much needed these days. What a waste to get rid of it.

[@Games20210]

I did hear somewhere that beeching didn’t acc plan to fully closes this line, som other politicians called for it

[@robtyman4281]

@Kyson Talon a troll most likely.

[@robtyman4281]

@Rhett Lachlan another troll....

[@VisualApproach]

The fact that he says will there be a train at 7am in the morning and 9pm at night makes me realise these people are completely detached from reality. Try 5am and 11pm mate.

[@daydays12]

yes indeed. They don't work do they?

[@robtyman4281]

Barnstaple station needs an upgrade.....as does that line also.

[@Timsvideochannel1]

I visited Ilfracombe a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't believe that such a large town accessed only via roads that were little more than country lanes wasn't served by rail. Stuff HS2, use a fraction of the money saved to reinstate railways in the West country that should never have been closed.

[@simcatbob]

completely agree, see my comment further up re Ilfracombe.

[@Timsvideochannel1]

@@simcatbobHi, I read your earlier comment - "After closure of the line(s) there SHOULD have been an act of parliament prohibiting the building of any structure on the existing permanent way. Too late now, no more line to Ilfracombe or Barnstaple to Bideford/Torrington and beyond. All that infrastructure lost when, I dare say in the future, much could be put back to good use. Mid-Devon badly needs that extra link, one I rode on in my youth whilst at school at Tavistock. Give the people what they need. Thank you for the interesting video. Brings back memories! Good Luck to All". I also watched the video showing the proposed reinstating of the North Devon line. Let us hope that common sense eventually wins the day.

[@LordTantrums007]

About time we had less prattle from the Tories and Bo Jo and had this railway line open and then in addition the line from Barnstaple to Ilfracombe reopened!

[@1258-Eckhart]

They won't close the Dawlish line after having invested so much in strengthening the sea wall and stabilising the rockface behind it.

[@stephenchappell7512]

Nor should they as it's internationally regarded as one of the worlds great rail journey's however a backup relief line is still needed with the Teign Valley option being the cheapest and most practical

[@railfreightdrivergallagherGBRf]

It will reopen, you'll see!!

[@neilgallacher4793]

I like the straightforwardly unalloyed positivity

[@srfurley]

I think that’s highly unlikely, but time will tell.

[@railfreightdrivergallagherGBRf]

@@srfurley If you work in the industry,as I do, you'll know. Enjoy it when it happens.

[@chazbaz4519]

It will happen, one day

[@railfreightdrivergallagherGBRf]

@Qwafgjolmf Pjbfszxgg You are planning on leaving mother earth soon then! Shame, you'd have loved the reborn line! 😁 Positivity is needed, not negativity!

[@camperp195]

Beeching has a lot to answer for !

[@daydays12]

I hope he is in ******* but corrupt Marples should be at an even lower circle of *******!

[@roysimmons3549]

Go for it. They know it makes sense.

[@neilgallacher4793]

But… isn’t there some red wall thing somewhere?

[@likklej8]

Yes reopen and bring back the Railway it’s good for tourism and will take a few more vehicles off the roads. Bugger the nimbies

[@michaelsandford1015]

They could build a station close to the houses

[@DIHTR]

I thought it was a shame that much of the line was not converted to cycle tracks like the camel trail. It would of made converting to track again even easier but some homes were allowed to be built along the route. That said most of the bridges and tunnels are still in good condition and the landscape does cater for the line to be put back with minimal cost. Compared to HS2 the cost would be a drop in the ocean. Should be a no brainer.

[@boldford]

Both are needed

[@stephenchappell7512]

Much of the line is It's called the 'Granite Way'

[@ZeldaFitz]

No new routes are reopening, however if it’s a road it most definitely will.

[@robertgraffham6440]

Reinstating the line between Exeter And Newton Abbot via Lower Ashton and Chudleigh Knighton would also be advantagious!

[@stephenchappell7512]

It's also a lot shorter and cheaper (both in reconstruction and maintenance) than the Dartmoor route

[@stortran]

Hi Debbie, thought you might like to view this very interesting video

[@michaelsandford1015]

This video was made before the Oakhampton station reopened

[@neilgallacher4793]

Yes, in its present form.

[@robtyman4281]

They should just do it, and stop endlessly talking about it ........then doing nothing. It's clear that we can no longer rely on the existing route as being the only route down to Plymouth and beyond. Other countries are more proactive and get the backing of most of their people. But we have too many 'interest' groups, each with their own agenda.

[@frglee]

I don't know why the short extension to Tavistock from Bere Alston has not been started; there's surely been enough meetings, feasibility assessments, economic benefit surveys, environmental impact analyses, prospective usage studies, station location, public transport studies, structural engineering investigations etc. but not a single foot of track has yet been laid. For those nervous about public money being spent on building actual practical things rather than just armies of civil servants surveying stuff, it may be of interest to know that two branch lines recently reopened in Scotland, to Alloa and Galashiels, both had traffic use MANY TIMES that forecast by 'rail transport experts' within a few years.

[@simontay4851]

Yes, stop arguing and just f**king get on with building it. Im sure lots of local people would volunteer their time for free to help.

[@stephenchappell7512]

@@frglee Yes linking Tavistock is a no-brainer as is reconnecting Bude but if you're talking Dawlish relief the Teign Valley route is far shorter and cheaper

[@muckle8]

@Stephen Chappell I would love to see the bude line re- instated , would the viaduct at holsworthy still be ok though?

[@boldford]

More of the usual comments from the NIMBYs

[@robhavock9434]

The public need to realise oil will run out and there will be no more petrol or diesel, Know is the time to restore the railways in preparation for the last oil shock.

[@peterbattey8263]

As always it comes down to cost, look how the HS2 project has spiralled out of control? Can you imagine employing a contractor to do work on your house? He gives you a quote, you accept. He then starts work but then starts adding little bits to the bill until he wants ten times more than what he quoted. What do you do? Say ok, or tell him this should be in the original quote and stop ripping you off? Contractors in this type of work look at it as a cash cow.

[@keithgale2596]

A more accurate description Peter is a Client employing a contractor - and then the client keeps adding bits and pieces - while you are here can you do this and that. On HS2, the contractors price a large proportion on a 'cost plus' basis or 'target cost' basis. You must remember that quite a large proportion of civil engineering work is unkown at the outset. So, to take your house example - how would a builder know the depth of foundations at the outset? The contractor could price an assumed depth based on drawings or 750mm deep - but what happens when you come across a soft spot or mine working? Of course you pay more! On the HS2 example, the contractors are paid overheads and profit on a competitve basis - so not a 'cash cow' as some may think - especially the idiot popular press.

[@Timsvideochannel1]

@@keithgale2596 I think you are attempting to defend the indefeasible, the channel rail link was built on time and within budget, the real problem is contractors tendering unrealistic bids knowing that once the government has put it's head in the noose, it has no choice but to bail the contractor out, instead of letting them go bust or simply taking the job over. Contractors have got used to ripping weak, ill informed governments off and government simply doesn't have the ability to accurately specify the job. In any other walk of life people who can't do the job are sacked, government departments promote them out of the way because employment law makes it difficult to get rid of poor quality people, hence why so many people in top local authority and government jobs are of such poor quality, I've watched it happen far too often. Good people tend to be kept in the job they are doing because they are good at it, sadly it is these people who should be promoted.

[@keithgale2596]

@@Timsvideochannel1 That sounds a bit of a rant and generalisation to me Tim - but before I comment further and just to check you actually have some knowledge of the facts - could you just outline the form of contract you are referring to? These define the risk profiles and payment terms of each project. Ohh - and for your additional information I was directly involved with a project when Carillion went bust - and no we didn't bail them out, nor did we overpay them. We operated the contract conditions correctly and engaged another contractor. The overall project was finished on time and to budget. Yes it took hard work to achieve that - but thankfully the local people affected by these works actually appreciated the effort. As far as I know there is no difference between public and private organisations regarding employment law and dismissals - again, please could elaborate?

[@Timsvideochannel1]

@@keithgale2596 I own and run my own engineering company, its up to me to ask the right questions before I quote a job, just as it is up to my customer to give me the correct information, where grey areas exist, allowances are made. I no longer deal with government departments because the quality of their staff is so poor, most have no real world experience as they are the products of a university system that has no interest in equipping them for their future roles in industry. The best way to learn a job is to work with and learn from the best in the industry, you won't find them at university. As an engineer I look at the electrification projects that have been cut back or cancelled and wonder why the companies who tendered for these projects always seen to get it so wrong. I suspect that if they quoted the correct price the contract would be awarded to another company, I regard that as a short sighted government failing. When Auckland, New Zealand electrified its commuter railways it was done efficiently and on time by competent contractors. I see railways all over the world and never have I seen such ugly over-engineered overhead line equipment as I've seen on the Great Western lines out of Paddington, by comparison Swiss OHLE is lighter and much more pleasing to the eye and "yes" they do run an intensive train service at up to 125 mph. Were you working for Carillion or were you responsible on behalf of the government for placing the contract?

[@keithgale2596]

@@Timsvideochannel1 Hi Tim - I think we certainly agree that the GWML electificaion was a disaster! The original estimates, were I believe, based upon a system of vibrated piles for the masts and assumed this could be applied to most of the scheme. It was only when the Civil Engineers looked at the proposals in detail, that questions were asked like - 'what about different ground conditions' and 'how do you deal with buried services in the way of the mast bases?' Unfortunately, by that time the orders had already been placed - by, as you say inexperienced officials. My experience with Carillion was placing the contract - we undertook due diligence at the outset (financial health checks) and it was a two year contract. At that time, Carillion were 'on the up' and trading healthily according to our data. We also checked that Carillions tender was not underpriced - I think from memory that they were less than 3% lower thand the second placed tender - and aligned with our own estimates. So no 'buying' of the job there. As we now know Carillion fell due to other circumstances (overseas contracts etc). Of course, to experienced people like you and me, I could tell that something was wrong with Carillion before the collapse - and took steps to investigate payments to them - so no chance of overpayment. As you can see, I am a public servant, and take my responsibilities seriously. I have no trouble voicing my objections to my bosses when I feel public money is being wasted or a wrong decision made - but to be fair, my bosses have always supported that. (Which is why I probably bristle when I hear 'all government officials are tea drinking lazy etc' - most of my colleagues are also dedicated and often work longer hours than they are paid for). I think where governments (whatever their political bent) can go wrong is that often they reduce employees to save money and in so doing get rid of the expertise in their organisation. I have seen that with Railtrack, DfT, Highways Agency etc. But that is a political decision. As to my background, I started work at 16, for a contractor - but have had several degrees since then. Interesting debate - appreciated - and I hope gives an insight into some government decisions. Regards

[@bobcornford3637]

By Southern to the west.

[@stephenchappell7512]

And cut off South Devon and Torbay? Forget it A far cheaper and shorter option is constructing a new line over the course of the former Teign Valley route

[@simonmaclennan677]

"Even Inverness..."??

[@neilgallacher4793]

¿Que?

[@robinfryer479]

It feels sad, but, aged 7, I rode from Plymouth to Portsmouth over that route on my way from RFA Fort Constantine (from Hong-Kong) in May 1955. Being English born and bred, I’m perfectly entitled to detest and despise, disgusting, destructive, corrupt British, self-serving, governments -of all flavours, which have wrecked and done untold damage to my countries green and pleasant land. They stole, then ripped up, railways. Aeroplane and motor vehicle manufacturers. Covered the countryside with concrete and motorways and polluted with poisons and noise…. I would love to see railways relaid, and motorways destroyed. And jet aircraft replaced by DC3s and ships. Failing that, give me a Time Machine…

[@daydays12]

Couldn't agree more!!

[@alantraish3368]

Re open the full line