Identifying Bearing Edge Issues | Season Two, Episode 42

A lot of things get chalked up to bearing edge issues; problems with tuning? Check you bearing edge. Heads not fitting right? Check your bearing edge. But how do you actually go about identifying bearing edge issues? Do you need special tools? A perfectly flat surface? We’ve got you covered.
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Hosted by: Cody Rahn
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[@jasper36]

That brushwork was some of the best playing I've heard on these videos.

[@Bothtapes]

Usually the case....not a video on brushwork but bearing edges ! I E relaxed not thinking.....always best to go straight into record rather than working out what your going to do !!! Relaxed and open !!! As apposed to overthinking and less receptive ,,, good luck to this channel and all who watch

[@jordankozelka9000]

I've had bad a bearing edge right from the factory with a big name brand and a relatively expensive kit. It looked like the router must have slipped and put an 1/8" dip in the bearing edge on a tom. it was pretty nasty. Luckily they exchanged it no problem at all. Mistakes happen to everybody, always check your edges when you purchase a drum, don't assume that this is only an issue with small builders or vintage drums.

[@KCElstun]

Thanks for this... and what do you think about an episode devoted entirely to the difference in bearing edges? Differences in sound and tuning. A Ludwig 45° outboard as opposed to a Gretsch 30° inboard for example. In any case, happy new year!

[@whodemiz583]

I agree, an Episode specifically about different kinds of bearing edges would be great!

[@MattMusicianX]

I would especially love to see an episode about that. I want to know a lot more. But as of now, the snare drums I like the most are Ludwig's and Tama's with the extra round edge on top, sharper edge on bottom, and extra wide snare gate. I find them the most versatile to tune.

[@MattMusicianX]

...and I don't know what outboard and inboard is

[@DZNTZ]

Matt Musician X Outboard or inboard as to the location of the actual peak of the edge... So you may see a 45 degree edge where the edge peaks right at the outside, and slopes down to the inside (or the opposite, edge on inside sloping to outside). Some makers will have the peak in the center, sloping to both inside and outside. Roundover edges are necessarily centered. I like the sound of a roundover batter edge with a sharper reso edge, I think it gives you a fatness without sacrificing projection.

[@DZNTZ]

He did intimate that there is just such an episode upcoming! All good things in time, my friend. Patience is a virtue and all that.

[@adorodrums]

you mentioned it - one does not need a 100% level surface to check a drum to be level. When turning the drum and shining light into it, you will see when it is not level. if the gap is moving, it is in the edge, if it stays in the same spot, the table is not level. now the mind blower: you can even sand a shell leven on a not leven surface. Simply by turning it. Sure it is an advantage to have a level surface, but even uneven sanding tables (a table with sanding paper glued on) will make the drum level and even just because the turning of the drum will sand it evenly. This whole "you need a 1000% level giant granite block..." is kinda part of the drum myths drum makers pass on for some reasons. It sounds cool, and makes making edges seem more sophisticated.

[@jonathaninsero2458]

My new (in 2013) PDP Concept set was one of those shipped with bad bearing edges. The drums were not only hard to tune, but would not stay in tune. I found that I could get the toms to "rock" on a somewhat flat surface. Rather than returning/replacing the set, I took a gamble, and had Precision Drum CO in upstate NY redo the drums with double 45 bearing edges. What a difference - they not only stay in tune, but sound good enough that it's really hard to justify spending anything more on a higher-end kit.

[@peterhansson7967]

I would say that edges are a big issue when it comes to the tunability of a drum. Even if the edges are uneven you can or might be able to tune it but the tuning range is less. I have done edges on a couple of sets myself and the all have been much easier to tune after that. It is not that hard to do yourself as long as you are both careful and thorough. It can be done all by hand and you only need a flat surface (glas table, counter top etc) and glue some sand paper to it. Don’t use to fine paper since it will take a lit of time. I use 120 grit and just rotate the drum on the paper until I get a flat surface all around the edge. I do a couple of turns and then check and repeat until I get the flat surface. Then I use a knife blade and skrape the angled edges until I get an uniform width of the flat egde. The I refine it with sand paper until it is smooth (180-240 grit) and then finish it of with 600 grit to get a super finish. First I use a sanding block, then something softer (rubber, styrofoam) and finishing whit my thumb. When alm this is done I again check for imperfections with the method shown in the video. It may take a spin or two on the glued sand paper to achieve flat edges. I like to have the outer edge rounded to get more contact area head/shell. I have always got a bettet sounding drum/kit which is easier to tune. Thank you for reading all this ;-)

[@savagehenry5158]

curious why you wouldn't use a router table? how do you maintain the angle when cutting with a knife?

[@peterhansson7967]

Firstly I do not cut with a knife, K scrape with a knife blade. A router leaves a ruffer surface and there is always a risk for tear out. And if you are working on a finished drum with a wrap you will not have a round outside due to the overlap. I have a router and would probably use it if I were to make a new drum to start with. So far I have not had any problem getting the angle or roundover uniform and correct. The different layers in the laminate give you guide to follow on most drums. If you use both eyes and feel (and measure or make a template) it will be a good result...

[@raptor_guy2327]

Thanks for clearing up that snare side part lol I was freaking out thinking the bottom of my shell was fucked 😭

[@BlackArtBMX]

You uploaded this at the exact time I was thinking if I had harmed my bearing edges by spilling a bit of wood oil on them when dyeing my Swingstar. I'll check this out tomorrow, happy fucking new year!

[@Eudemon0013]

I won't lie, my 12" tom was kinda like a sawtooth at points, it was rough. I'm pretty savvy with instruments, so I decided to take a some 200grit sandpaper and a square edge, put it on a lazy susan and spun it till it was visibly level, I know for sure it isn't true but my tom can be tuned low or high with no issues, with different heads as well. I appreciate y'all so much, happy new year!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Amazing how a bit of work can make such a difference! It's one of the reasons we warn against the DIY approach for bearing edges in general- it's REALLY easy to screw them up but we're glad to hear that you're experiencing some success. Cheers and happy new year!

[@jeremyschneider9531]

Great video! I appreciated the perspective that a bearing edge problem has to be fairly obvious before you have significant tuning problems. That will be very helpful to me. There is a lot of input online that says "make sure they are perfectly round and perfectly flat", and with your flashlight test, if you see any light out it's the kiss of death... You're perspective is more reasonable and consistent with my experience.

[@johnrobinson8323]

Thanks for the great info guys! Happy New Year!

[@fridaydrums572]

If you happen to have a ceramic glass cooktop in your kitchen that's also a great surface for checking bearing edges, it should be close to perfectly level. But I don't know if these are as common in the US as they are in Germany?

[@barry58D]

Make sure its off though

[@fridaydrums572]

@@barry58D who knows... maybe roasted maple will soon become a thing for drums too

[@leocomerford]

A piece of stone countertop should do too. Trying to remember what little I know about woodworking, I think a rectangle of plywood or MDF (fibreboard) is also usually considered true enough to use as a flat surface in woodworking jigs. To actually *check* the trueness of a surface you can just use a good straightedge (eg. www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Straightedges/Precision_Straightedges.html ). (Naturally this is the kind of thing that David Raouf kzbin.info knows plenty about. Here he cuts a new bearing edge for a bass drum, for instance: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIauiIaEiLmgaLc )

[@Bothtapes]

Rocking the shell is a good check as long as you turn the shell 90 degrees at a time and the rocking follows the movement. I've just found out my Tama SLP picalo is well out !!! Sound lab experimentation aye !!! Worse still my Japanese made Yamaha maple custom absolute which I have had tuning issues on my 12 and 13 Tom's...I took off the heads and..OH NO! Why has such a well made kit got this problem. I used to have a 1950's gretsch kit which was really well out, but I didn't expect it on this...may look for someone to redo or just play the more dead sounding 12 and 13 and try to convince myself not to notice !!! I am in Devon in the UK...great channel, keep up the great informative work...thank you

[@Aquarius61]

Happy New Year! SLaD Crew. Your channel has become invaluable to me this last year! There seems to be a lot of interest here on a Bearing Edge to Tones edition here, and I must agree! I'm not even a drummer, (I'm a bass player by trade)but I fell in love with working on and restoring vintage drums kinda by accident. I started by looking for a 7pc 1970's Pearl factory Stencil Kit(6 layer mahogany concert tom style with 45 degree inward baring edges) for our home studio. Ended up buying 2 kits for the second bass drum to recreate a monster double bass kit(fell in love with the sound that came from a buddies 70's 12+1 TAMA Imperial Star kit that came from the same factory and period. I used to help him setup for gigs and home for our practice sessions, so I learned a lot. His preferred tone came from Rounding over the baring edges(Jazz style). Combined with the open bottoms and no Reso head to fight the stray tones, his kit was very easily tuned and required minimal dampening of the toms, which had a crisp twack or thud and minimal post hit ring. I did find a perfect Marble slab 24 x 24 inches cheap, and I'm just starting to work at rounding over the baring edges now.... More input couldn't hurt! Loved all the Low Tuning video's! Looking forward to 2020 with SLaD!

[@taylormeares7801]

I took the factory wrap off of my tom shells and painted my kit years ago when I was a teenager. Needless to say I didn't do a professional job, so there is now paint and sometimes beads of paint on the bearing edge.

[@ayuu.]

*Happy New Year!!* This is the first video I watch for the New Year 2020 and it's going in my saved favs! Love your channel much!

[@NoslenLRac]

Thanks for showing that Tama snare. I have one and the bearing edge is extremely slight. Still learning how to tune that one better.

[@ianmuessig]

Timely video! Just bought a Ludwig Breakbeats and that thing is a piece of crap lol. I bought a sound percussion entry level kit just for a cheap set of shells to chop and that had noticably better bearing edges, shell construction, hardware, and chrome. I've really found the evans level 360 design to help dramatically with this issue. I also had to go through and buy a whole new set of hoops as Ludwig makes their's hilariously undersized. I thought I got a dud until I read online that Evans heads not fitting factory Ludwig hoops is a common issue even on their highest end product lines.

[@marty9464]

I have two flat surfaces I use when truing edges.... both were free!! Places that sell granite and quartz counters always have leftover pieces that are too small to be of use to them so they just get rid of them. Just ask and you might end up with your next important tool in being able to ensure your drums are giving the most they can. (If you're able to get one, keep in mind they're very heavy - particularly the pieces big enough to check floor toms and bass drums). A factor in inexpensive drums having bearing edge issues is the fact that they're usually not sealed on the inside.... thus moisture can be a problem. I always seal the inside of shells when I'm rehabbing drums to make sure this doesn't get to be a problem down the road. who sealing, make sure you don't get the sealer on the bearing edge itself.

[@ER-yq1lc]

Looking forward to more bearing edge info from you guys. I have a set of shells I cut down sitting in the garage, I think I'll wait now to see the next few videos before I start routing the edges. I'll probably go with the Radio King style, because that's the snare going with that kit, but I'm curious to see, your videos are always so informative!

[@alanduncan1980]

It's a 60's Ludwig. If you want super precise bearing edges maybe use some modern drums. Of all the vintage Luds I've owned there hasn't been one with perfectly level edges, but who actually cares? Those drums tune up fine.👍

[@sebastiengreen1517]

On most drum set I had, there were drums not sitting flat, enough to make it hard to tune and get the full sound. I corrected them with sheets of sandpaper glued on top of a piece of granite. I guess the drums are perfect leaving the factory but over time the wood works from being pulled by the tension rods.

[@MrRCOTE]

Yrs ago, Bob Gadzen told me one of my floor toms was out of round. I put a die-cast rim on the top, that made it better.

[@brianchisnell1548]

Good info. I cringed watching you take the tension rods out though. They should be loosened the same way as they are tightened. Gradually in a cross pattern. Take those rims, turn them upside down and lay them on that flat surface and see how warped they are. This is a huge tuning problem. Just an FYI for all. Cheers!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

The hoops are just fine but definitely go with whatever works for you. We’ve taken hoops off drums thousands of times with a drill like this without issue.

[@davidsuprenant893]

I have been very fortunate, all the kits I've owned the edges were good.The problem I've had is putting a new head on and find out it's warped.Or a bent hoop.They will drive ya nuts trying to get the drum in tune.There can definitely be problems with new heads and hoops.!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR FOLKS.

[@BadChizzle]

Love you guys. Thanks!

[@isihernandez9752]

Dudes, did you read my mind...? 2 weeks ago I've done that same thing to 2 snare drums. One is my old snare drum I have for 20+ years, and the other is a new used one I bought recently (made in 2004). I made it to my oldest snare because I was making some maintenance since I spotted that the screws that hold the lugs to the shell were rusty, so I changed them all and I profited to check the whole thing. And to my new (old) snare because, you know I've just purchased it and I wanted to check it and make sure everything is ok. I did it on my granite kitchen countertop. The results: My oldest one (Pearl Masters Custom maple, 14" x 6'5", 4 plies (maybe 4-5mm thick) with reinforcement rings) has a slight deformation and sways slightly. My newest-not-so-new one (Mapex Black Panther maple Premium Series, 14" x 6,5", 6 plies (maybe 6-7mm thick) w/o reinforcement rings) has a tinny irregularity on the edge, almost inappreciable and doesn't sways at all. I don't know if the difference in thickness of the shells has something to do (probably), they both have a similar age, but I don't know what kind of life had the Mapex. I'm pretty sure it hasn't been mistreated though, since it is in a pristine condition. If I didn't know this model was discontinued years ago (and for the heads), I could think it was brand new. Anyway I'm not going to fix anything (not yet at least), since I didn't noticed any issue when tunning them, they both tune fine and keep it decently, so I don't think it's a problem at all. The point is that I wasn't sure, but before checking them, I was thinking of selling the Pearl, since both are maple drums 14" x 6'5" (I like that, what can I say?), but I was thinking of exchanging the hoops (the Mapex has triple flanged hoops and the Pearl die-cast, wich I prefer for snare drums, but are so expensive). But since I've spoted a slight deformation on the Pearl, I don't know if the hoops will be ok and will fit nicely with the other drum. I think die-cast are less vulnerable to deformation than triple flanged, but 20+ years on that drum.... Anyway, I'm not sure of selling it, so I think I have the time to check it out and see how it's going... Happy new year to everyone, by the way... =)

[@madshamanstudios]

So helpful - thank you!

[@justinlee2268]

Before I got my dw design kit,I had a pdp Encore. The Encore had really sharp bearing edges on the 12” tom. I put grip tape on some plywood to sand it.

[@John-xg3wd]

I would love to see you document your edge cut and see a before and after comparison. Scientifically speaking, it would be the best way to see the difference as the only changed variable would be the edges.

[@nealsausen4651]

Stamm at the professional drum shop in Hollywood one of the best drum technicians mechanics On the West Coast! he learned from the best! That would be The Late BOB YEAGER, The founder, owner, and president of the Professional Drum shop in Hollywood California.

[@bryanholewski8049]

I live close to the Ludwig factory and I’ve wanted to take my 60’s Ludwig’s there for them to check out and possibly re do the bearing edge. I know the rack tom reso side rocks a little when I put it on the counter. I recently put a diplomat on the reso side because it’s always sounded a little dead to me and I thought a thinner head might conform to the imperfect edge and sustain better. So far I think it sounds better than it ever has.

[@daneeehhhh]

Happy new year!!!!

[@catfishmudflap]

First! Thank you for bringing us all these fun drum video lessons.

[@jbondrums]

I second that

[@aarontrejo]

@@jbondrums I third that

[@StartdrummingDe]

Sound is and will be very subjectiv! So there can´t be such a thing as "the only one" bearing edge.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Agreed!

[@Island-pool]

When single heads were popular in the 70’s 80’s , lots of Toms would get knocked , dropped and bearing edges were damaged .

[@bryangulledge]

Yep, Ive been dealing with a 1979 slingerland kit with this problem. One of the toms was hit so hard on the bearing edge that it created a 2 inch crack up the side of the shell. In the process of setting up my router table to recut the edges after sanding them flat.

[@alexgarza4513]

Am I screwed if my COB snare is out of round? I have a vintage gretsch 4160. But i bought a 2015 reissue version and it actually sounded worse even though it was in perfect condition. Exact same heads and snares and tuning. Funny how that works, vintage is better!

[@BCSchmerker]

+soundslikeadrum *At OMS Japanese Christian Church (Walnut Creek, CA, USA), I've a fix of a situation* concerning the YAMAHA® RY2T4 donated by Peter Lee: All the toms (viz., one each TT910Y, TT912Y, and TT914Y) have multiple low spots on at least the batter bearing edge (potentially the resonant bearing edge as well), glaringly obvious with the as-received REMO® Ebony Series Pinstripes (viz., ES-0610-PS, ES-0612-PS, and ES-0614-PS). I've a full suite of EVANS®/D'Addario® heads shortlisted, but see first need to re-cut the bearing edges to ±0.1mm deviation in height so the EC2S Frosts (viz., B10EC2S, B12EC2S, and B14EC2S) will behave as advertised.

[@Prof.CheeseDog]

Bought some used tenor drums off of ebay that looked in great condition. Took off the heads and the bearing edges were cracked, splintered, and flattened in different places. Don't know how you can even do that to a drum

[@samthorne488]

Weird question. I have a 67 jazz fest, not outa round but the edges look almost smooth. The edges on this pioneer are much sharper. It tunes up and stays in tune fine, but doesn't sound great. Im not a drummer, but vaguely know some info. This is my only wooden snare. Ive got some 60s ludwig snares, but they're aluminum and brass so i don't have a lot to compare to

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

What’s your question?

[@espencer83]

Could it be a bad drum head also? Do you have any videos on that?

[@chewygad7899]

I have a DW designer snare and the snare beds seem extreme. How much difference in amount of cranks? I feel like I’m having to over tight to get the wrinkles out

[@Imaddrums]

Ive had trouble tuning my 12x7 tom for my tama starclassic hyperdrive and ive noticed with remo heads its alot harder to tune and I can get a decent tone but its not as good as the rest of the kit but when I used evans it made the issue better but the tone isn't as clear. I did a edge check and as you said it wasnt on a 100% flat surface and it was rocking a little it wasnt major and I noticed the edge isn't completely flat, on the batter side on the 2 sides of it theres a bit of a downward curve its not huge but it gets in the way, what are some easy solutions to deal with it, without getting an edge recutting?

[@ragmeh]

Hey! Love what you guys are doing! Quick question: how would you go about get a really dry drum sound (as heard on The Roots' "Dilla Joints"). Been exporting the hip hop world recently and am in love with that sound. Thanks and a happy new year to you all! - Raghav :)

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks! It’s all about tuning and muffling. We’ve got an episode coming up soon that features a cool technique that Questlove used on some of the classic recordings by The Roots. Stay tuned! -Ben

[@tieukhavu8832]

@@SoundsLikeADrum Sadly, when I read anything about bearing edges, There are always disadvantages to them. That's so boring.

[@NoslenLRac]

How about bad bearing edges on metal drums? I’ve done repairs for schools where students have knocked a drum over on the stand and damaged the shell. Anyone ever find someone who can repair that? I’m learning how to work on wood shells, but I don’t have the tools or experience with metal shells. Yes, damaging metal shells is not common, but students with school instruments will surprise you.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Yep, that can definitely happen as well and can be checked the same way and (luckily) can also be repeated by a skilled craftsman.

[@oblivionwalker8613]

Another great video! Do you find that waxing the bearing edges helps with some of these issues, IE smoothing out tiny dips or nicks in the edge?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Great question- I’ve waxed bearing edges before but it was more to make tuning smoother (which it really didn’t do much in the way of) because of some advice I’d been given. Hard to say if it’d make any difference regarding dings in the edge :) -Cody

[@Soundgear4]

A mirror is pretty flat, I just checked my new yamaha floor tom and i can fit .038" of shim stock in the gap!😡

[@ashleycrashdissinger8021]

Glass is flat. Back of a mirror 👍

[@chiphammond1623]

MDF is a great for checking. Don't use a granite countertop. Granite countertops are not flat, they are smooth. They are ground by entry-level workers and if you put a straight edge on them you'll see they are far from flat.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

The tabletop on this cart is far from flat but with this method it works just fine so a granite countertop should be quite adequate for this method as well.

[@thepluggy1]

Hi guys, i have just bought a Tama Starphonic Braas snare, and just waiting for it to be delivered, I am just wondering what in anyone's experience would be a good head for this drum, i usually use a HD Dry, but have heard that this kind of kills the drum so i am looking for something else to try when i get it.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Power Center Reverse-dot would be my starting place :) - Cody

[@tuulofdstrxn]

Do you have any tips on how to deal with drums that are out of round? What do you think is salvageable as far as ovalness goes, and what's a hopeless case? Asking for a friend no asking for myself, my new kit has a floor tom that's +-1.5mm oval, that's 3mm difference in total between the narrowest and widest spot on the shell. Yes, measured without hoops and heads. It's tuneable, but doesn't do low tunings well, and I'm a low tuning kinda girl.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Definitely speak with a professional drum builder/restorer who has worked with such things previously. It may be salvageable but it may not. There are enough additional x factors that would need to be reviewed and the situation thoroughly diagnosed that you really need to take it to someone who knows what they're doing. Best of luck!

[@Riddim4]

Have you verified the bearing edges are good?

[@founboy78]

I have a question. Is it wise to mix-match tom heads? Like one tom has an Evans g1 and one tom has a g2

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Check out Season 2 Episode 21, we did a bunch of experimenting with this! :) - Cody

[@ShaneMcCosky45]

How do you fix the warped bearing edge?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

If your bearing edge is damaged then you should speak with an experienced drum builder about having the edge recut.

[@ShaneMcCosky45]

@@SoundsLikeADrum please and thank you!

[@aaronrochotte6342]

So I recently got a batter edge recut. I should definitely replace the old head (that was used with the original edge) with a new one, right?

[@failuretolaunchdrums]

Aaron Rochotte if it’s still in good condition (no dips or dents) and it wasn’t stretched out too much, go ahead and save your money. If it looks like it’s seen better days, treat yo self!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

That really depends on a lot of other factors: how long the head was on for, what sort of tension it was under, how much and how heavy was the playing that it saw, what model of head is it, how dramatic was the bearing edge issue? Nothing wrong with trying it out and seeing what you think but a fresh head will likely yield the best results, all things considered. -Ben

[@TunnelSnake-es7tu]

The beginning sounds like me getting my eyes flawed out by big bird

[@the_wet_snare_ofcl1378]

I have a few tiny dents and dips on my 14" toms bearing edges, will it affect my sound or not?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

It’s likely less to do with issues in sound and more struggles with intonation. Or you may notice next to nothing. BUT- if you get it repaired, it may become much easier to tune. Or it might just be a minor improvement.

[@the_wet_snare_ofcl1378]

@@SoundsLikeADrumYou guys are really helpful! I love your channel.

[@remygaron8311]

50$ dollards for one side bearing edge plus taxe you gotta think twice before buying it 😤😤😤🇨🇦

[@funkyflashfive]

a piece of plate glass is a really flat surface

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Yes! That's a great surface though it can be a bit deceptive when it comes to shining light underneath the shell since the glass lets light through.

[@funkyflashfive]

@@SoundsLikeADrum Good point! May want to use a piece of paper as a feeler gauge instead of looking for light on glass

[@robinjensen3672]

A load of good information in your videoes...But to long sometimes...Ex Why do we have to watch you removing the heads? 😎

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks! You can always change the speed you watch any section at or simply skip forward. Cheers!

[@timpani25]

if you find the time, why not find a beater drum in a pawn shop and experiment with shaping the edges. it might be educational.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Time is always the key here. We’ve got this snare and could have the work done but we have so many projects in the works and still need to pay the bills.

[@russellesimonetta9071]

All drums from the fifties and sixties were not really perfect! You could buy a vintage drum that in a catalog would say 5/14 and it 5.3 or 5.15 ECT. Modern technology makes thing much more precise!

[@MrShaggrock]

Who tf disliked this video?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

🤷🏼‍♂️

[@philmcrackin9573]

Skip to 4:19 to avoid babbling and non sense.