If Nina is S-Tier... why is Jin winning??

Dreamhack Summer 2024 - Top 8 Losers' Round 1
• Top 8 Tekken EWC Quali...
0:00 - Intro
2:19 - Pre-Game Analysis
6:18 - CBM (Jin) vs. Jodd (Nina)
Catch me LIVE: / phidx
Don't forget to subscribe :) tinyurl.com/ytsubphidx
Follow me: / phidxgames
---
Intro/Outro by SKONK - / @bigskonk
Intro/Outro track by KEIFERGR33N - / @keifergr33n
Editors:
Averyx: / @averyxfgc
Ceezd: / ceezd_
Jack Clishem: @jackclishem
shishi: / @shishi4
----
I'm PhiDX, I play Tekken professionally for DSG, Chipotle, and ArcadeShock.

[@thejimchug]

He believed in his heart

[@konkhemkhonta932]

"You beat me with your heart, not your strength," - Leroy

[@n0sebleedz]

goated comment

[@yelowninja]

he pressed X!

[@TheXell]

@@yelowninja Nah that's 3ddy.

[@Jamal.O]

I feel my energy!

[@kincaedx]

Power isn't everything, clearly.

[@TRIPLUSCSGO]

The answer is that Jin is also S-Tier hahaha

[@v.m.6549]

Jin still playing T8 1.0 lmao

[@alondjeckto]

@@v.m.6549 more like beta t8

[@Topgamer357]

Jin players are S-tier

[@NarcoticDimension]

​@@Topgamer357 lmao

[@thorcolossus]

@@Topgamer357😂

[@mrpotch]

Nina only has enemies, while Jin has friends that make him stronger

[@GK-st6qm]

CBM is so so good, his Jin is the lore accurate main character

[@Striderthedripper_]

Better than devilster?

[@kyquinn502]

​@@Striderthedripper_ya

[@outkast978]

@@Striderthedripper_ yes. CBM has better game knowledge

[@kietey14]

16:23 “so you can rewind… arg, fuck it, we’re right here”. “I know you guys aren’t going to lab this” LMAO I’m dying

[@stage4evolved216]

Because He doesn't deny his past He doesn't deny his comrades and their bonds Oh, and he also wants to live

[@utarefson9]

Bro, Jin is literally a mass murderer who ignores his past and was a loner all his life

[@Kaiilayn]

I’m traveling a 4 hrs ride for a Tekken 8 Saudi tourney and I listened to your analysis and were enlightening. I’m not going to win but going to actually make a presence for the first time ever and meet monsters to learn from. Thank you man for your work and you are an inspiration to me not only on Tekken but on KZbin and how you chase your dream. Keep it bro and I wish one day we could clash some good fun tekken ❤️

[@ThonMa974]

I'm sorry to ask, but is PhiDX's girlfriend just come to chill in the room to listen him talk ? If that's the case, that's the sweetest thing I've ever witnessed and it actually makes me hopeful of the world again

[@brodiidias6029]

Never played nina but jodd has remained one if my favourite pros since he showed up, insane player

[@user-by6eb6zo7g]

HAND PETTING DOG

[@patrickmcknight2394]

My answer before finishing the video is that cbm is just a freak machine

[@jonadefty41]

enjoying the breakdown of tourney games, looking forward to more!

[@Amalgam8ion]

Tysm for your videos man, real time analysis like this from a professional is so deeply cherished, esp as someone coming from Smash originally. Your abilities to describe both the flow on paper and the mental stack are incredible, I learn so much every time

[@Bootin_up]

As a Nina main and as someone who has lost against a lot that title felt like a personal attack

[@blazaybla22]

I’m saying… without making excuses, too many people have opinions about Nina that don’t make sense if you play her. Is she really really strong? Yes. Can some characters really struggle against her offense? Absolutely. Does she also have matchups that are clearly in the other characters’ favor? I really believe so. Characters with strong advancing attacks and good range can just melt her sometimes because she just doesn’t have a lot of options in a certain range that other characters excel at. I’m not saying change her, I’m just saying she’s the type of character people will give a chance because everyone says how strong she is, and go “I’m losing a lot… must be because she’s hard to execute” and drop her but not reconsider that maybe what everyone is saying is a little biased because they’re only looking at the character on paper and/or in certain matchups.

[@leondon7421]

Nina is my bae too :) Ninagang stand up

[@justinmour6928]

@@blazaybla22you said it perfectly

[@xxcrizahxx4886]

0:12 Bro your dog got kidnapped 😭

[@PyreaI]

Nice! I was about to make a comment earlier whether you could do an analysis on one of Jodd's matches, so this was a great timing! Thank you!

[@Ozcaty]

Because Jin is basically S tier bro lol

[@distam_]

Love these tournament analysis vids

[@SomethingRiceRelatedIThink]

Always great to wakeup to a PhiDX video

[@DannyDKCV]

Nothing quite like waking up to a PhiDX analysis video and a cup of coffee ☕

[@SleepyIronBear]

Tier lists are a “I’m trying to be objective to represent the strength of this character, but I cannot measure human ability to perform or fuck up the matchup, the mind games, the playstyle,the adaptations the player makes,etc”

[@Youllneverfindmezx]

Couldn’t say it better myself. Usually high tiers are characters people struggle against which is more a personal problem than an objective fact.

[@Dr.Happy11]

@@Youllneverfindmezx Eh, I'd argue that first and foremost, high tiers either naturally possess a higher concentration of objectively stronger tools, or possess a couple completely unique traits (usually new ones, which will kill both noobs and pros alike). And in regards to that, more high tiers emerge from characters that have favorable matchups to the existing high tiers. Usually, it should be apparent which 2-3 characters are mathematically high tier, and the rest will fluctuate with a million factors affecting them.

[@kronksstronkstonks6360]

Tier lists will always have an element of subjectivity, to boot. Are they factoring only the ceiling of the character and their tools in their rankings or are they factoring in tournament tiering - which is a bit different because tournament nerves and jetlag etc make consistent, easy to execute gameplans more attractive than they might be in online play, where character familiarity and cinnectiij strength are king, for example. Also, are they factoring in the skill floor and/or the ability of the character to carry players through lower ranks through oppressively good buttons that might fade in value at higher tiers of play? Theres a lot of factors and having an objective tier list is kinda impossible due to how subjective the prioritisation of these factors are.

[@SleepyIronBear]

@@Dr.Happy11 Sure, hopefully this gets implied in what I said

[@Dr.Happy11]

@@SleepyIronBear Yeah, you conveyed it correctly, since at least that's how I understood it.

[@Lazergician]

God these videos are so good.

[@Rodin_noct]

Quick question, for pad users, should I get seperate d-pad buttons or stick to the default dualshock 5 pad?

[@rreplacement7402]

Pre-Vid: I believe that every character is strong enough to cook you regardless of tier

[@chucklos391]

Absolutely! Everyone gets worked up about a specific character or two, but any character in the cast can beat any other character. Tekken 8 is awesome.

[@RickRockerMusic]

20:56 those smacks do a chunk!

[@mohammedabdallah403]

Awesome as always mate, small request thou... can you make a video that explains how TWT system works?? The process looks intricately designed and very interesting

[@KrayKenshin]

PhiDX is the ESPN channel for Tekken players. 😂

[@FhargaZ]

Love these videos, it's like someone explaining to the spectator in a dbz episode match what is happening 😂.

[@bastinelli443]

I just picked up Nena and shes an amazing character on this game. I feel like I had a hard time finding a character that let me express how I want to play and when I picked her up it was like a eureka moment.

[@gingilopez6364]

whats the website to check frames?

[@ritchieyim6629]

GOOD BOY DOGGO SPOTTED

[@deanradley65]

I’ve just started labbing after every loss even quick match losses and it’s been really eye opening as to just how much you can learn.

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

It really is insane 🙏

[@President_Shin]

I noticed that no one is bringing up Jin enough

[@kanyeeast42033]

@Tai Kihi is the ultimate phidx police lol

[@tristanwong8432]

I've noticed with CBM he will use 1 lazer scraper during the round but he wont go into zen. Then he does a 2nd one but goes into samsara, it usually catches people off guard. I've done it myself as a Jin main. Also if you don't finish the Kazama punish where CBM left it, Jin is actually +8 which is huge for his game.

[@tziino5229]

does cbm do breaking step electric for ease of execution under tournament stress, or for wall carry?

[@runecreed2265]

easy of use--- not because he needs it but why risk a fumble when it's a guarantee with no downsides

[@SuperGamer3000]

There’s no S tier , you just need to learn your character and cope with it - Harada

[@jorgerojasmundotropicaltra64]

Hello brother great content like allways where i can find a table with the reach of all moves for very character??

[@ibrahimimran3858]

what does he mean by big tekken or small tekken?

[@shaolinprince777]

Wow, perfect timing! I JUST got finished commenting on another video titled "Why Do So Many People Downplay Their Mains?" I responded by saying: "I don't believe I'm down playing my main at all. Nina Williams is pretty much the same character she was in Tekken 7, and she was low to mid-tier at best in that game. Actually, she's been nerfed in some instances. For example, her d3,2 can no longer be used to stop people from ducking the 2nd hit of her d3,4,3 string, because it does minimal damage and doesn't launch anymore. Her magic 4 also isn't as dangerous as it used to be, her evil mist no longer guard breaks, etc. However, for unknown reasons, people are all of a sudden saying she's one of the best characters in Tekken 8. In Tekken 7 a lot of people, mostly casual players, watched TMM's STUPID videos about Nina, and they all of a sudden started saying she's the easiest character in the game to win with. Those videos were a lie. Anyway, let me not go off on a tangent. The point is, from what I can see, the same thing that happened in Tekken 7 is happening in Tekken 8. A lot of people haven't really labbed Nina that well, so when they come across a Nina player, they get hit by a lot of shit they shouldn't get hit by, or they fail to defend properly. Then all of a sudden, "Nina is S tier!" Lol. Meanwhile, there's like nothing that would actually make her S tier in comparison to characters like Paul, Bryan, Jin, Devil Jin, Jack, King, Hwoarang, etc. Those characters are legit cheap with endless plus frames, safe launchers that fall within the plus frames, guard breaks, psycho crushers that travel all the way across the screen and put them at plus frames, the ability to fly and avoid getting hit, unfair gameplay when they have you up against the wall, etc. Nina has none of that. She's still very much one of the more difficult characters to win with, IF she's going up against someone who can defend her properly. So, to me, it sounds crazy to say she's S tier." "Every time I see my opponent is Nina, I get happy. It's an easy win for me. Most Nina players play like garbage, even high ranking ones. They constantly do things like df3,2; uf4,3,4; ss4,2; slide kicks; power crushes, etc. All of those things are extremely punishable."

[@mccollio0909]

Nina is a better character (I believe top 1 currently), but Jin's not a million miles behind either. Jodd's no slouch, top 2 Nina in the world himself, but he's against a more skilled pilot. Yes, player skill is way more important than a tier list.

[@zackariahp1873]

Nina as top 1 is crazy but it's all personal opinion I suppose

[@yaboytony3028]

@@zackariahp1873I mean I see it. Insane dmg, good strings, amazing throws, crazy chip. Seriously, get hit once with guns while her heat is active and suddenly you might as well have eaten a combo

[@zackariahp1873]

@@yaboytony3028 she's definitely top tier but I feel like if someone picks Nina, it doesn't just give them the win, when I fight a Nina it's not like I've lost before the fight even starts. Also her guns are really strong in heat yes but they are all highs and launch punishable, she has to play defensively and punish for the guns to be guaranteed with either WS1 1+2 or B3+4 1+2. I saw a tier list by plantedmedusa where he put the majority of the characters in s+ tier and I really agree with this, the majority of characters can go head to head with one another imo

[@IzNebula]

@@yaboytony3028 don't forget the many CH launchers she has.

[@bonfist7277]

@@zackariahp1873 Yeah, Tekken is "balanced" because once most characters get their chance to hit you, you just die.

[@riastradh]

He keeps moving forward, until all his enemies are destroyed

[@ArkAynJoel]

As a beginner to the series, I don't know what "small Tekken" and "big Tekken" means, but I sure as hell am excited to find out!

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

Small tekken is usually moves that come out at 10-15 moves. Then big tekken is moves that come out slower than 15. I may not have the exact numbers down, but it is ruffling something like that.

[@beamoflight-healthchannel5766]

Phidx papered up, he having his way fr🤓💍👑🏧💎🏦💵

[@yashgundaniya300]

I love the dogo in the start

[@sparklingcutie]

The power of friendship buffed him

[@yomi_jeremy3964]

Before I watch this video, I already know Phi will use the words "Delay timing" a couple of times.

[@Enigma366]

Damn I had no clue about half of those wall combo mechanics. That clears up a lot of confusion for me. Dope combo and great explanation.

[@gilet102]

Because Jin has almost no weakness it feels like he can do anything. Good pressure, good grab game, good pokes, good damage, good heat smash. Nina is good but I feel Nina got clear weaknesses unlike Jin. A cracked Jin player is almost always one of the toughest matches you can have in this game

[@sakashimayokoshimahapofusagari]

simple because nina has remained a specialist char while jin has not retained that. CBM wasnt on jin at the end of T7 for a reason🤷🏽 that's been changed for T8

[@waynee.exe.]

no one plays jin except for jin players, these guys have years of experience with jin(cbm, book, raef, devilster, danielmado). they literally are jin specialists.

[@danisflying]

Not anymore though since they made him ultra braindead

[@waynee.exe.]

@@danisflying im not speaking of scrub level tekken, im speaking of high level tekken sorry i mustve clarified and jin is not as braindead as you are making him be, sure he is easier to play than in tekken 7 but its fair cause the amount of execution needed was unfair, stop listening to the crowd and experience it for yourself

[@JustAnte9557]

​@@waynee.exe.you're a scrub for defending a scrub character like Jin, if I ask you now to upload some relays all I would see is Garyu gameplay.. 214 shouldn't have knockdown on counter, dive kick shouldn't be plus on block, uf2 should be -10, ewhf shouldn't launch on NH, F4 counter pick too easy, zen 3+4 stuns against the wall and nine knows why..

[@waynee.exe.]

@@JustAnte9557 skill issue

[@afaqfakki6930]

​@@JustAnte9557you have a kaz pfp. Who has 10f splat and knd. Jin isn't braindead he is strong

[@yaboyking8941]

i’m a simple man, I see a phiDX video i watch😌

[@Redtube831]

Hell yeah lol

[@Diispaceyone]

On God

[@Redtube831]

I was just thinking.. “where tf is Phidx??”

[@SkylarEmelio91]

Believed in the heart of the cards and got all five pieces of exodia

[@kanyeeast42033]

@Tai Kihi you here bro ? the comment section need you to police it

[@astr4ls4murai8]

16:55 isn't df2DF OB -9?

[@darkninja9499]

Jin dowplayers are undefeated

[@TheAnimationkid101]

20:25 I need more tekken content that talks about reacting to approaches. I think thats what missing in my games. Its like how do you react...shit is too fast and worse they might do a move. What should i be looking for?

[@jaco5790]

This game is hard man. So much situational things to try and understand 😭

[@garaktartv3647]

If anime taught me anything is that the power of friendship is unsurmountable.

[@johnbao444]

28:58 how come the sidestep reset the wall splat? Wall splat > side wall splat > Wall explosion > etc Is it cuz the wall splat is different from the one before? Is that how, after the Wall explosion, the high wall splat is another reset, then the tornado wall splat is another reset?

[@PhiDX]

Not sidestep, sidesplat

[@johnbao444]

@@PhiDX hi, I got rid of the sidestep, but it was the sidestep after the initial wall splat.

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

I believe it is because a sidesplat doesn't count as a normal wall hit. So therefore you still have hits to do a regular wall combo before they slump down quickly. I am not 100% sure myself though, and haven't labbed that myself yet

[@nipzniso]

So we just ignore the dude in the back petting the dog

[@Viimaija]

Thinking Jin isn’t Top 1 rn is crazy.

[@civil1763]

19:42 yup

[@tomatocat2524]

I'd really love to see your take on the nature of nerfing given we're currenty seeing the phenomenon of a charachter (Devil Jin) being considered overly weak now after catching nerfs for being previously thought of as top tier. I feel like a lot of the calls for nerfing become tainted with bias and frustration after being passed around between comment sections and tier lists. This channel has some of the best nuanced tekken content I've ever seen, and I feel like you'd have some of the best commentary on the current state of the top tiers and how they can be toned down without being gutted.

[@TheUnique69able]

He’s a Mishima hater, he’s also biased although less so than others

[@PhiDX]

Mishima hater is crazy

[@TheUnique69able]

@@PhiDX you overplay their strengths and overly focus on their tools while ignoring their flaws. I’m not even a Jin player, but complaining about Jin’s moves being overbearing is just covert hate (except for maybe 2,1,4). Both Nina and Jin are fine the way they are rn. If you want to talk about broken tools characters have, talk about yoshimitsu.

[@Dr.Happy11]

@@TheUnique69able "ignoring their flaws" you say, and then you bring up Jin. Poor choice of words. Of course, it'd be impossible to ignore a char's flaws when they have *none* The fact you brought up Yoshi, a traditionally jack-of-all char with defining strengths and weaknesses, who is extremely strong in T8, as a "counter-argument" to Jin, a traditionally jack-of-all char who ended up master-of-all, proves you don't really comprehend what you're talking about.

[@TheUnique69able]

@@Dr.Happy11 I’ve played against the strongest Jin players in the world including book and CBM. Jin has glaring flaws, and the player piloting Jin has to be very good to be successful with him at high level. Yoshi is completely bs that only has strengths and no exploitable weaknesses.

[@mangosuppe8706]

Honestly, I'm just a little curious about your point about "Common issue in Europe" at 6:01 what did you mean by that? Just genuinely curious (I am not that good of a player and barely watch high rank play)

[@blazaybla22]

Based on the context of what he’s saying, I’m gonna toss out a guess and I could be totally wrong: I think it’s for the same reason that the really good European basketball players who come to the US to play in the NBA are great at scoring but not as good on defense - when you’re an amazing player in Europe, there’s just not the same degree of competition around you that you refine your defense by playing against. Of course I could be completely wrong but that’s my guess - I’d be curious to know the real answer myself!

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

European players are known for player aggressively and quick, where they mix you up and either die quickly... Or you die quickly.

[@mangosuppe8706]

@@ChristopherWaddelow good to know 👍 (i am an eu player)

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

@@mangosuppe8706 Yeah, I am from US so I have no clue if that's true or not, I am just repeating what I hear everyone say 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@mangosuppe8706]

@@ChristopherWaddelow I don't watch pro scenes so idk either but seems like a stereotype to me

[@user-bp8vu2ri6o]

Everyone is used to defeating Nina without straining and picking nose with one finger, which was in Tekken 7. And when it became a little more difficult to play against her, everyone immediately cried along with the TMM donkey, who hates her and overestimates her strength in his stupid list , so that Namco will nerf her again. Nina is a good character, but she has bad luck; too many haters attacked her. Even in the last list where Nina was nerfed, this TMM critin put her on his list as a leader. If you carefully follow the championships, you can clearly see how difficult it is for her to win, because she has many shortcomings and is far from the strongest in this game. Many thanks to the author for this video. Your video is interesting and fair. I watched several videos of this idiot Tmm and realized that he promotes characters in his personal interests and preferences.

[@irina2388]

Man plans, Harada ordains! Press x to belive in yourself!

[@ksrandom4940]

CBM is undoubtedly the best Jin in the world learned so much from his Jin.

[@SemiQuest]

I just want PhiDX to notice me :D

[@kingkino2116]

Is there any particular reason he's doing SS df2 instead of SS2 thats a 13f mid launcher? Seems like hes throwing away launch opportunities and eating CH because of those 2 frames

[@blazaybla22]

If we’re talking about the same thing… Df2 is totally safe -7 or -8 whereas ss2 is like -13 I think? If you have a little bit of a read you can get a lot out of ss2 but ss df2 allows you to be a little more reckless in throwing it out. I also think -13 is a way bigger deal offline than it is online just in terms of like realistic punishments etc

[@colgatecrescendo]

doggie cameo??

[@yoyoprofessorxavier]

Dog in background

[@tabkg5802]

Because he's a well-rounded shoto style character who always have a headstart due to "easier" gameplan. Trickier characters get stronger with time (Akuma), while likes of Jin/Ryu/Sol/Ragna get worse

[@HongMeilingsBiggestFan]

Which is why Jin is the Ryu of the Tekken series since his relationship with his long-time friend and rival Hwoarang is no different from Ryu and Ken's even if he doesn't wanna him, he still enjoys fighting him when he does in return due to his kindness. Also, there's him successfully being able to take control of the devil gene which is all thanks to the help of his friends (Hwoarang, Leroy, Xiaoyu/Panda, and Eddy) after he redeemed himself from the crimes he caused back in T6, which is no different with Ryu successfully being able to take control of the Saitou no Hadou thanks to him tapping into the Kyosui no Hadou. Hence why his current Kyokushin Karate since T4 is the way it is now. 😏

[@SoloPlayerP1]

gran from granblue fantasy and akira kyo

[@Shuddles]

T7 and below i would agree with you but not this version Jin. You are wrong sorry. Yes Jin is good at everything and great at nothing. however he has a lot in his kit and can be used very differently match to match. Jin can be used very differently because of all the tools he possess

[@tabkg5802]

@@Shuddles literally nothing you said disproves my words

[@BecomingYourIdeal]

What so jins game plan?

[@pocketoniofficial]

I think Jin is still just far easier to pilot comparative to Nina, but i think theyre both pretty strong right now.

[@SoloPlayerP1]

He is the Protagonist Just Press X He Will Believed in his Heart

[@86Yaro360]

So - Jin did not win, CBM did. You don't see him using any cheap stuff (in words of TheMainManSWE - lalala FF2 or F4, lalalala D2 - that is broken) over and over and capitalizing on it. Just pure skill, reads, fundamentals and damage optimazation - that's it. I think that CBM threw one D2 in the match - got blocked and punished. He outplayed Jodd - who played really good by the way - with character knowledge and skill, not because Jin is S-Tier. Skill is more important than tier list.

[@Dr.Happy11]

"you don't see him using any cheap stuff" mlao If I had a yen everytime uf2 and 2,1,4 were used, I could buy Bamco and balance this game.

[@tabkg5802]

@@Dr.Happy11 if you get beaten by those moves you have a skill issue lmfao. Now actually learn to block and use your brains for defense and stop crying

[@ibrahimimran3858]

@@tabkg5802 said it perfectly lmao

[@outkast978]

saying t8 jin is stronger than t4 jin is crazy

[@LFC608]

We NEED a way to see the hitboxes in this game, so the war crime that is Jin's ff2 can be exposed.

[@tigrisrgn4062]

ff2 is a nuclear treat

[@ably2109]

It became more normal so it doesn’t matter anymore really

[@xXLEGENDXx31]

It got nerfed broski

[@cauthrim4298]

It's already gone, bro

[@riceyboi7069]

The nerf already hurt the move, alot of the time the animation for the heat engager makes it look like it has more range than it does. The move isn't brain dead anymore, it is very easy to side step.

[@senX]

nina already won a major, jin didnt right

[@blazaybla22]

Arslan won a major and he was using her, apparently that’s enough to make her top 1 now

[@senX]

jodd won one as well

[@TheJakeJackson]

Doesn't the LCQ only send 1 single player to the TWT finals?

[@PhiDX]

That particular season it was more than just the first place spot

[@TheJakeJackson]

@@PhiDX Thanks for letting me know!

[@distam_]

Pog

[@ninjaguysith]

Is there a reason pros do not use b 1+3 counters? My noob scrub mind saw a lot of what looked like good opportunities for Jodd to use them, so I figured, there must be a good reason.

[@yaboytony3028]

Probably because it is too risky. Even if there are good opportunities, you never know in the moment if its a good opportunity or a bait to get ch

[@blazaybla22]

The risk/reward ratio isn’t great especially offline where everything is more reactable. Also I could be misremembering, doesn’t it only work against high moves? which you can duck for a much larger punish anyway. Edit: I wanted to see a pro matchup where Nina won over Jin so I went and found Arslan vs Devilster. Arslan does use the move, essentially as I think it should be used - like once or twice a game just to remind your opponent you have it and they have to factor that extra little detail into what moves they throw out.

[@screammer_xd]

because is the main character

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

Just today I was labbing Jin's df2. With Kazuya, it seems magic 4 beats every option out of wavedash after df2 is blocked, and Jin has to manually cancel and duck to go below and launch punish the magic 4. Additionally, any i12 magic 4 will win as long as it doesn't get crushed by CD1. If your character doesn't have a i12 magic 4, try another 12 frame move like 2 jab. Some get crushed some don't. Also, CD WS4,4 is rather fast, and I think magic 4 only wins by 1 frame. So you have to be extra tight with the timing. Ironically, Jin himself doesn't have a good option select for df2 CD options. (i suppose parry may be good, not a Jin main 🤷‍♂️) If Jin delays the options from df2, CD, that changes nothing and magic 4 will still beat every option.

[@corfipx]

Have you checked it against Jin's uf2?

[@Dr.Happy11]

Lab again, you missed something obvious. (try labbing with delayed timings and remember how many moves can actually be performed out of wavedash)

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

@@Dr.Happy11 I wasn't labbing delay timings. I was labbing instant timings

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

@@Dr.Happy11 also for the record dude, yes it literally counters every option Jin has from CD. Delay or not.

[@Hehdhdi6778]

Jin kazama is the goat 🐐🔥💪😎

[@gmxellos-nya]

If Xiao is S-Tier.. Why she's not in top32 on tournaments.

[@victormisterio]

In this video there was only one person who didn't know anything about the characters' moves, several flaws in the arguments, wrong moves, wrong frames

[@jorgerojasmundotropicaltra64]

And You Will a video about meatys?

[@GruduAlmighty]

Yes jin tekken 8 is best version.... but nina is same, kuma is same, yoshimitsu is same, king is same, dragnov is same,...80% (probably more) of characters of this game is same... CBM is just a monster, he win with good sidestep and good punish, CBM carry jin, jin no carry CBM. Jin is realy strong (A tier) but he can't be top tier (S tier) because: 1) heat system of jin have no key moove (power stance work just in oki at wall when so much character can used better key moove in heat) 2) he have no long string or block stun for have good cheap damage in heat 3) he have good damage just when he juggle or spécial throw (in tekken 8 have good damage in string normal HIT or in CH is important for yur opponent can't have white life can be regen) 4) jin powercrush ar not fast and not easy at used during opponent string. 5) jin is realy weak with side step right (versus jin key moove AND versus jin juggle combot) kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3e2eKZvis6ogZI kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKKnh5WDqbKre7s kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHK6h4uMbM-cn6c kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6Tdm3VroNJ-nMk kzbin.info/www/bejne/moKofaOIa9aooJY

[@TomiokaGiyuus97]

CBM makes jin “S tier” his jin is one of the strongest and most inspiring

[@GruduAlmighty]

@@TomiokaGiyuus97 rangchu same with kuma

[@niwona_]

I think it would be awesome if the Tekken community became a trendsetter in moving away from traditional tier lists and their top 5/bottom 5 nature with the way modern FG balance is, and instead went towards something that told a better story and didn't end up in the same regressive dialogue they usually do. Especially in games with such player dependence as this!

[@c.c.anubis]

More for the "free labbing" situation against Jin's d/f2 stuff. Nina has a 12f mid in her d/f4, and that move will beat every option Jin does from stance, or, if he decides to block, you're -4, no big deal.

[@blazaybla22]

Are you sure you mean d/f4?

[@c.c.anubis]

@@blazaybla22 that's her 12f mid, so yea.

[@blazaybla22]

@@c.c.anubisAh, sorry, you’re right. I misunderstood which input you were referring to

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

Magic 4s work well two if they are i12.

[@c.c.anubis]

@@ChristopherWaddelow not really as his left electric can go under a lot of highs.

[@sw9028]

CBM is a fucking monster is my takeaway from this DH

[@ICEMAN-Z8]

Unfortunately for jodd he faced the strongest 2 specialist from korea when he played against Yeonarang it was worse

[@TheGreatAustino]

Aris just said it's hard to root for Lili players because it feels like he's rooting for a sex offender during your match vs the Victor player. 😂😂😂

[@renelopez3547]

Clearly Nina lost because she didn't believe in her heart whilst Jin believed in his.

[@blazaybla22]

I saw The Main Man just put Nina as the best character in the game and I went 🤨 I’m dead serious, play against a good Paul as Nina at any skill level (or just look up pros doing that matchup) and you’ll see why Nina is a character that in a vacuum is great but she just has some really good matchups and some pretty bad matchups. Some things she does extremely well… and some characters just don’t really need to care about those things. Paul isn’t as high on the tier list but… seriously, just go watch pro players trying out that matchup and you’ll see where Nina falls short (literally at times). I’m trying not to do the typical “downplay your main” thing and just speak objectively here. She is top 5 but that just doesn’t mean she also doesn’t fall short in some pretty significant areas, or have to work a lot harder to do the same thing as other characters in certain matchups. Edit: 5:09 - I think the best clue to what I’m saying is the part about “he’s not desperate to do damage” and what follows after that. Respectfully that strikes me a little as “hindsight is 20/20”. What this actually means to me is that a Nina player either wasn’t pressuring the other player effectively in that match, or because of the matchup the character has a hard time pressuring the other character effectively which means her biggest strengths aren’t coming into play. Here I would argue maybe a bit of both. If a character is able to do what’s being described here then either Nina or the player piloting her isn’t doing their job well enough. I personally think Jodd is good enough that it’s maybe worth taking a second look at the character to see if maybe she has some less-than-favorable matchups.

[@zMadaraUchiha]

Matchup knowledge….

[@shaolinprince777]

I think that if someone struggles against Nina, it's a lack of labbing and overall experience with fighting the character. That's the last thing I'm going to say about that. I'm out.