If you like A Song of Ice and Fire

[@whoaitstiger]

Saw the title, got excited, then saw the thumbnail and was disappointed as I've already read Mistborn (and it's freaking amazing).

[@Unemerix]

I love how ruin+preservation equals harmony

[@whoaitstiger]

@@Unemerix Oh yeah Sanderson's magic systems are so satisfying and symmetrical.

[@farsaltygamerx8946]

I love I can't wait for the next book

[@lovefunnyflicks]

Thanks I could not understand what he said now I can look up Mistborn

[@ameykulkarni7491]

It has the best ending of any book series I've ever read.

[@reganbrooks8339]

I'm really happy to see Berserk on this list. I've never been into manga or comic books but a friend of mine recommended it for a solid year and it's REALLY good. I don't think I've ever seen a darker world portrayed in fiction.

[@awenger120]

I would add to this list The Witcher series. It is dark and grim, has political maneuvering, most of the characters are grey in the sense of their morality, the series also doesn't shy away from brutality and sex.

[@InfidelProductionz]

Yes and Geralt is similar to The Hound in Song of Ice and Fire.

[@victoriannecastle]

Does it have good magic system?

[@neoriv9468]

@@victoriannecastle Not really.. It has a lot of Magic but is not very explained how it works. Its an amazing book still.

[@TheFourthWall14]

Nah bro. Read Berserk. Nuff said

[@kurtpropane4896]

That is the worst book ever I hate the witcher

[@Porky7805]

Although it is unknown, I would add Naudicaa of the Valley of the Wind manga series by Hayao Miyazaki. The 1984 anime adaptation only covers the 1/4 of the manga ran from 1982 to 1994. Miyazaki originally ran it so he can get the studio's approval to make a full feature film. After completing the film adaptation, he returned and just continued his story through the manga. Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (manga) is a better Star Wars than 40 years of Star Wars combined. Not only this is the best written/drawn manga of all time, I truly believe this is one of the best 'stories' out there, including films, TV, video games, novels, and plays. The ambition of bringing the history and the real world issues into fiction and sculpting this enormous yet detailed world is on par with A Song of Ice and Fire. The protagonist and the so-called 'villains' are some of the most nuanced and human characters you can ask for in fiction. The way Hayao Miyazaki created the epic saga tackling War and peace, humanity and nature, good and evil, innocence and depravity, ethnical conflicts, generational hatred, social class, politics, gender, trust and betrayal, depressing truth vs false hope, personal guilt, trust and betrayal, family, youth, all these are the diverse themes this manga covers in depth is beyond my comprehension. How could he make a story this good? I can't even watch the film version after reading it. The thing is that as you read it, you can see how Miyazaki's worldview and attitude were changed from his film version of Naussica to Princess Mononoke. It truly his magnum opus and it seems like the manga's finally getting an attention it deserves recently, and I'm so glad for that.

[@TimothyNiederriter]

Solid list, but definitely should throw Joe Abercrombie's "First Law" trilogy in here. No use talking dark epic fantasy without that series. Stunning characterization and beautiful twists. Also. Very dark indeed. Do not read final book if depressed.

[@pedroarjona4618]

Indeed, but you are compelled to read the last book, you know is gonna be a train wreck, but you have to read it

[@TimothyNiederriter]

@@pedroarjona4618 yes. It becomes inevitable.

[@riley8385]

I would add The Shattered Sea, also by Joe Abercombie.

[@dragonlord595]

Dune is another one to tryout if you liked A Song Of Ice And Fire.

[@Grimscribe732]

Everything by Joe Abercrombie. Also: Rob J. Hayes - Where Loyalties Lie R. Scott Baker - The Darkness That Comes Before Guy Gavriel Kay - Tigana Peter V. Brett - The Painted Man/The Warded Man Ed McDonald - Blackwing: The Raven's Mark Except for Tigana, which is standalone, these are all the first in a series. Did I mention EVERYTHING by Joe Abercrombie? Thank me later.

[@lorenzoc.b.9809]

Why do you recommend Tigana? I'm interested in his author.

[@evandance3621]

Wow, I watched this video without realising at first a full year after it came out, to the day!

[@zerg0s]

Malazan has a sprawling narrative, a VAST cast of compelling (as well as loathsome) characters, explores the highest and lowest strata of many different societies, brutal plot twists... and I keep seeing people bringing it up in your comments. Just geeeeeeet toooooo eeeeeeet already.

[@zerg0s]

Also, it has an Evil Empire in it. A reasonable one. As reasonable as Empires get. And most of the POV characters are part of the titular Malazan Empire, too! I’d love to hear your analysis of it.

[@RaggaDruida]

Interesting list, I would definitely add "The First Law" by the Lord Grim Dark Joe Abercrombie himself and "The Second Apocalypse" by R. Scott Bakker, my favourite saga to be honest, it has amazing characters, a lot of moral ambiguity, intrigue [political and religious], one of the best worldbuilding I've ever read and a lot of philosophical musings!...

[@yaldabaoth2]

Michael Stackpole - The Dark Glory War (1st book of 4) Read this one without looking up a summary first. Great stuff. And not many people ever mention it. Mark Lawrence - Prince of Thorns (love this trilogy so much, protagonist is clever)

[@jamila5677]

Prince of Thorns is so amazing! I wish more people would talk about it

[@victoriannecastle]

Read the Broken Empire series.. Never heard of Dark Glory. Does it have interesting magic system?

[@yaldabaoth2]

@@victoriannecastle No, it has political shenanigans. Fantasy elements exist but it's not really explained. Like in Lord of the Rings.

[@alexithyme3511]

Steve Erickson's Mazalan is imho the greatest fantasy series ever written. It is incredibly varied, has a ridiculous number of badasses. Morally ambiguous and interesting characters. World shattering events. And the best thing is the entire series of 10 800+ page books is finished, and Erickson has already got 2 books out in the next series all in less time than GRRM has been writing Ice and Fire, and frankly I gave up on the series after the last two books when I realized GRRM has contracted Robert Jordan syndrome, and will probably never stop adding new POV characters to the story and thus never end the series. Erickson doesn't get enough love from fantasy fans. Imho.

[@sokiel6663]

It is funny that as a huge fan of ASOIAF I came across this kind of advice many times, so many that I gave Mistborn a solid try. And I had to stop after the first book, as it was not my cup of tea at all. I can't see any reason to compare the two worlds and stories. I have no idea how people keep putting them together in one sentence.

[@Dave004]

Love the TV show "The Expanse" didn't realize it was based off a book.

[@anton9405]

I would add the witcher book series in there. Yes I know it isn't all that political nor follow that many characters, but it is dark fantasy and has a low magic system. The series is really well written and always feels like it is not being "dark" just for the sake of it.

[@dik4316]

Isn't all that political? Did you read only the first two or something? Did you skim them instead of properly reading?

[@anton9405]

@@dik4316 I'm reading the fourth book currently. I dont know about the later books but currently the main story is not about politics the same way ASOIAF was. A big part of ASOIAF is people trying to get the throne, the witcher feels like it is more about just people and their relationships. Yes, there is the war against nilfgaard, but I feel like the major characters do not play such a big role in that. In the ASOIAF the war of five kings starts when Catelyn Stark captures Tyrion Lannister, and the tensions between the two families escalate. And we get to follow the main characters from those families during the war. In my opinion the witcher doesnt do that. Geralt, Yennefer and Ciri dont really take part in the conflict the same way.

[@dik4316]

@@anton9405 Are you sure it's not just politics flying over your head simply because Geralt is not inherently a political actor the same way all the heirs to the throne in the Song are?

[@anton9405]

@@dik4316 Thats exactly what I mean. Geralt, Yennefer or Ciri are not political actors. There are politics happening, but the main characters do not take part in it the same way Tyrion, Jaime, Dany or anyone else of the main characters from ASOIAF does

[@dik4316]

@@anton9405 I'm just going to roll eyes at you for a bit, then.

[@zhyarjasim]

This is very intresting, after I read the first book of ASOIAF and loved it, I told my friend about it, and he suggested berserk to me, saying that I would love than one too. He was very damn right.

[@kevinwarden2450]

One of the men who write The Expanse, Daniel Abraham, has a fantastic fantasy series called "The Dagger and the Coin". It's like ASOIAF in terms of extreme moral difficulty, philosophy, character development, war, etc. It's five short books, and is definitely worth a look! The first book is The Dragon's Path.

[@MisterS.]

Berserk is literally the best thing ever

[@kimina310]

You havent read Sidonia no Kishi have you

[@MisterS.]

@@kimina310 indeed I haven't, thanks for the recommendation!

[@tictacterminator]

And like ASOIAF, it will never be finished.

[@salehalhajri7745]

@@tictacterminator WOW that aged well, unfortunately 😕

[@rad8866]

Malazan book of the fallen? can it be considered a good series for A Song of Ice and Fire fans? I read the first 1,5 books, and it feels interesting, with a lot of characters and a harsh world.

[@riley8385]

I haven't read it yet, but I've heard a lot of people comparing the authors of that series with GRRM. It may be a good option.

[@Muckrackerz]

Malazan Book of the Fallen is arguably the greatest 'epic fantasy' series ever written. Both in scope and in terms of Erikson's fantastic prose. That said, Malaz ist very different from Song of Ice and Fire. Malaz gets progressively more philosophical and, at times, bleak to sombre. Malaz has giant battles, earth-shattering magic, intrigue and all of that - but it really shines in its introspective views on history, anthropology and individual themes like compassion, civilization, debt, motherhood, responsibility and many others. GRRM has written a great series but not one that I would read because it's "thought provoking", deep, or touches on subjects that no other fantasy series addresses. ASoIaF is also a fair bit more gratuitous when it comes to sex and violence, but that's a matter of personal preference.

[@zerg0s]

ASoIaF is ‘more’ gratuitous with sex and violence than Malazan? Excuse me? Just to grab three examples of “sexual violence” off the top off my head, have you forgotten the Children of the Dead Seed? Karsa Orlong’s night out in the town, be it the Rathyd village or Silver Lake? Janath’s special fun stay with the Patriotists?

[@longLiveClassicRock]

Best series I've read, best world building and definitely the most complex series. It makes WOT and LOTR seem straight forward. Takes about half the first book to get into it though. Things aren't laid out black and white, makes you think a little bit.

[@Muckrackerz]

​@@zerg0s While I am totally(!) with you when it comes to the Janath-scenes in Reaper's Gale, I'd also definitely reject the notion that the Children of the Dead Seed or Karsa's raid are gratuitously presented in any way whatsoever. Karsa's story, as it progresses, very much becomes one about him reflecting about his past self and the spirits of his wrongdoing literally come to haunt him. The Children of the Dead Seed are also presented in such a way as to make it pretty clear that the way the are created is fucking appalling. There is, I think, a very important difference between a work of fiction that simply contains sex and violence, one that indulges in these two, and one that comments on them. If you merely look at Malazan in terms of 'Does this contain sexual violence, abuse, torture', then, yeah, it does. Thing is, Malazan incorporates these elements in ways that give commentary, criticize, and more often than not force the reader to take a stand against these atrocities. Seren Pedac would be another example of this or Mayen. Or Smiles. With the exception of the Janath scenes (which Erikson has publicly stated were written in an attempt to force the reader to assume the bad guy's perspective), I would argue that pretty much all scenes that depict atrocities are presented in such a way as to make readers recognize them for what they are: Awful, abhorrent deeds that leave terrible mental and physical scars on their victims. ASoIaF on the other hand does what I cannot help but feel verges on indulgence, when the first novel portrays Daenerys' sex scenes with Drogo in a way that suggests any rape eventually becomes consensual/enjoyable for the victim. Now, in the spirit of fairness, ASoIaF has plenty of moments that invite critical reflection on what's being presented. But the overall tendency to make awful stuff (somewhat) enticing is much stronger in that series than it is in Malazan.

[@ActionMan153]

Im currently reading the Shannara Trilogy, about halfway through book 2 Elfstones. It's pretty great, the scope doesn't feel massive but still huge events and not much magic use. Not super adult, but there are some dark spots, Elfstones being much darker than the first.

[@ryanrobinson2850]

Thanks for this. I'm someone who's looking to really delve into both fantasy and sci-fi after reading Asoiaf and this list is really nice. Mistborn and the Expanse were already on my radar and i'll definitely be looking at the Night Angel trilogy and the Black Company. Surprised to see berserk here but as someone who likes manga I've always known of it but this motivates me to check it out.

[@kk8490]

As soon as I heard “outside the realm of literature but back to the realm of fantasy” I actually said “BERSERK?” out loud. To everyone who hasn’t read it: just go read Berserk, it’s fantastic

[@ThePreciseClimber]

And it's most likely never going to be finished.

[@kk8490]

@ThePreciseClimber so what you’re saying is that, on a meta level, it’s _exactly_ like asoiaf?

[@riley8385]

@@kk8490 Hey, ASOIAF would definitely be finished... after Martin dies and Steven Erikson finishes it for him, lol.

[@ThePreciseClimber]

@@riley8385 Well, yeah. ASoIaF is definitely going to get the Wheel of Time treatment. Not sure about Berserk, though. Do mangas ever get finished if the first author dies?

[@riley8385]

@@ThePreciseClimber Not that I know of. The only similar case I can think of is Naoko Takeuchi (Sailor Moon) drawing HunterxHunter for Yoshihiro Togashi, because he was too sick to do so (they're married).

[@riley8385]

I would recommend as well the Wild Cards series, edited and co-writed by George R. R. Martin.

[@abyssal113]

Thanks. I was wondering what the finale of the ASOIAF month would be and this is perfect. I had spoiled myself a bit on the Expanse with some of your vids (autoplay), but I'll check them out.

[@fl0cu]

Lies of Locke Lamora / Gentlemen Bastards should be a really close choice for ASOIAF-Fans

[@Khan_2025]

I think song of ice and fire is great, but i had difficulties to finish the first book. I like mistborn more.

[@williamfontoura]

You talk about Berserk, therefore I like you

[@lordj3793]

Kudos for mentioning berserk 👍👍👍👍👍

[@haroldsandahl6408]

I'm sorry, I just have to disagree. February is much worse than April. While the allergies are worse in April, February wins as its the longest month in the year despite being the shortest month in the year.

[@JLchevz]

try 2020 mate

[@blondiesaband]

your channel has been blowing up lately lol I love it

[@tictacterminator]

And I wanted to leave another comment saying that Leviathan Wakes is a really good re-read. This doesn't happen so much with the sequel books, but you really notice a lot of what was going on "in the background" on a second read-through. A group of people coming or going from a place, that seemed unimportant on a first read through, is illuminated to be something important to the logistics of machinating political schemes on a second read, and it gave me a sense of the book being populated by real people, even if they are unnamed. Everything is set up, and it does it in a way you might not always notice the first time through. It never just tells you "oh this happened here while we were going".

[@rasalasblack]

The Mistborn Trilogy is a YA fantasy series I really like. The second would be The Name of The Wind. Tho that traditional "MC falling hopelessly inlove with a damsel in distress and tries to rescue her" is just disappointing. Especially when the bish was a selfish scammer who the author fails to convince the readers have any real affections to the MC. She just comes off as using him and MC comes off as simple-minded 'coz of it.

[@riley8385]

Another one I would recommend to people looking for political intrigue and morally ambiguous characters is *The Shattered Sea* trilogy, by Joe Abercombie.

[@kimina310]

If you like pointlessly long works - Litany of the New Sun and the consequent works by Gene WOlfe

[@tictacterminator]

An important thing to note about the Expanse is that James SA Corey doesn't exist. It's a pen name for two authors, one who is George RR Martin's (writing?) assistant and the other who is a member of a writer's group in Albequerque with George RR Martin (if I'm remembering correctly). I would honestly say that with Leviathan Wakes, I think there are some things that it does better/that I personally prefer over ASOIAF. (I don't know about you but reading ASOAIF, it can be a bit frustrating to go from the perspective of a character you love, to one that you fucking hate or think is boring. You don't have that in Leviathan Wakes, switching between Holden and Miller is like a perfect balance story telling wise, and it doesn't ever feel bogged down.) But as the series goes on it does pretty much become ASOIAF in space as the scope of the political story telling is expanded and more POV characters are introduced.

[@Forafix]

Finally i found a person who read The Night Angel Trilogy, so here is a question. I read only first book and it was pretty good but all that cringy emo texts from Durzo like "Relationships are ropes. Love is a noose." or "The perfect killer has no friends. Only targets." were terrible to read. There are more quotes like that in next two books or i can read them without that stupid feeling that i read 14 years old boy secret diary? PS. Probably my grammar is awful. i know it and i work on it.

[@arti15f]

A fine video, but "Second Apocalypse"(a.k.a. "Prince of Nothing") by R.Scott Bakker could have been mentioned here. This series is relatively unknown (at least in comparison to B.Sanderson, whom i also appreciate), but it's really bleak, has a lot of sex and politics, powerful magic, actually terryfying gods and sentient dragons. As with POV's, there aren't too many but they're multiple. However, it's not like you could describe all good dark fantasy here, so it's fine...

[@victoriannecastle]

Yes! It's still my favorite fantasy series over anything else.

[@danielmiranda2126]

Berserk is amazing, one of the few classics of our time that will be forever remembered and recommended. However I would never recommend it, since in my honest opinion it will never be finished. If you dont care to read an unfinished work, then go ahead. But there is a reason why he is criticized, since he sometimes only turns in 20 *pages* per year, if he feels like it.

[@theshadow5251]

You should do a review of the Night Angel Trilogy. It's one of my favorites.

[@nunyabusiness776]

after the mess that was season 2 od HotD, had to come back and listen to this

[@lordofdarkness4204]

The First Law trilogy.

[@ternvall]

Axe and the throne is my best parallell to ASOIAF. It's not finished either. 😬

[@artios162]

If you can in the future, I suggest putting the picture of book cover some where one the video when you begin talking about it.

[@bruceh1660]

First law is the closest thing your going to get to ASOIAF.

[@misoweli]

more like a schmong of shmice and schmire amirite

[@Homar30]

Surprise there was no Witcher saga here.

[@madcircle7311]

What a coincidence, just started Mistborn some days ago

[@rubenhunt130]

Now I'm sure the Night Angel series is probably more nuanced than it sounds, but names like "Azoth" and "Kailar" (however that's spelled) sound like they were dreamed up by an edgy teen.

[@riley8385]

Actually, that pretty much sums up the whole trilogy. I read it when I was 18 and I thought it was pretty good, looking back at it now in my late 20s I wouldn't recommend it.

[@rubenhunt130]

@@riley8385 Good to know, I hadn't read it so I couldn't be sure, but it makes sense. Thanks for the reply/tip!

[@riley8385]

@@rubenhunt130 (big spoilers for the whole series ahead) The best thing about it imo was a plot twist regarding the MC's immortality. Every time he died, the magical mcguffing revived him, and so he got pretty careless with his life, going so far as to die on pourpose once if I remember correctly. Turns out, every time he got revived the mcguffin also claimed the life of one of his loved ones, and that's why they were dying left and right. That was pretty cool at the moment.

[@rubenhunt130]

@@riley8385 Huh, that is pretty neat.

[@nic_mcpherson]

Am I the only one who really hates that he says “George Double R Martin”. It doesn’t sound right and he’s not shortening anything. It’s the same number of syllables.

[@ZalrokChaos1]

Have you heard of The Twilight Reign?

[@drebodollaz3504]

What do you think about the Horus heresy books?

[@johnvonshepard9373]

"Goblin Slayer" Jk :)

[@uponthepotato2532]

really think you have misunderstood asoiaf

[@insertteahere3162]

_Incest is wincest, bois!_

[@dima5467]

You kinda dropped a massive spoiler for the Mistborn series... Luckily I am to a point that what you said was already revealed, but if I were say on the first book or still reading the second book... Not cool.

[@dik4316]

1st Expanse book was alright, in the 2nd one the protagonists turned into immoral space pirates sucking each other off for being so good at pirating. Maybe they get retribution later, I don't think they will and don't care to know, dropped the shit like it was hot.

[@thomashurst5163]

First law trilogy?

[@victoriannecastle]

Mistborn should not be side by side with SOIAF. Though I love both.

[@joaofarias9986]

I'm a simple person. I see Mistborn, o click in the video

[@Infamous1892]

Hard pass on Sanderson. I read Way of Kings and it was pretentious and over hyped. Over thousand pages and nothing to say but Stormdamn you and you have great Wit. He lost me on that one, and I'm not gonna get burned again. I like good fiction.

[@evilfuzzybunny100]

Bruh moment

[@ciarancassidy7566]

Beserk doesn't feel exploitive? I'm gonna have to disagree on that one. It's 100% the best manga I've ever read but it's not like it's more uncomfortable aspects are always necessary for plot or character development.

[@drebodollaz3504]

Depends on the arc tbh. I have read the books 3 times. There are definitely exploitative parts lol

[@TheAnticlinton]

Can you do a review of the edge chronicles? It has spectacular worldbuilding with very few common fantasy tropes. Its most unique aspects that I can't find in other fantasy books are : 1. The lack of a "superior" or "ancient" overpowered race like elves or night walkers 2. There isnt any magic, instead there are supernatural forces and materials that have unique physical properties(i.e. rocks that float, all life coming from spirit particles) 3.Technological progress instead of technological stagnation, and focus on how it changes societies in the Edge Chronicles world

[@ConTrollerNorth2]

*Mistborn tosses ass!* It's not dark, it's just plain ol' generic garbage.

[@Unemerix]

Mistborn is way better cause the ice & fire is pretty boring (a feast of crows...) and i realy love the way how ruin and preservation work together

[@riley8385]

AFFC is my favorite book in the series ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@InfidelProductionz]

I prefer SOIAF, I want to read Brandon Sanderson's books, but I'm afraid they'll be too cliche with dark Lords and too much magic.

[@riley8385]

@@InfidelProductionz Brandon Sanderson's books are anything but cliche. One thing he loves to do is to subvert the tropes of the genre. They are full of magic, however, and it's one of his strong points, so If you don't like that, they're probably not for you. Magic in his books is treated more like science, tho. Still, I recommend them. I suggest starting with Stormlight Archive, it's arguably his best work, and I have the impression you won't like his earlier books.

[@talleyrand3551]

Sanderson's writing style really drags down the overall quality of his books. I enjoyed the first two Mistborn books well enough but his diaolgue and descriptions are just so clunky.

[@whoaitstiger]

_Said_ _Talleyrand,_ _raising_ _an_ _eyebrow._ bit.ly/2L5kPuE

[@jamila5677]

I actually enjoy his writing style. I haven't read the english version tho, only the german translation

[@riley8385]

Mistborn was literally the first book he wrote, if I'm not mistaken. He has improved a lot since then.

[@whoaitstiger]

@@riley8385 You are. Elantris came before Mistborn. Elantris was the first of his novels to be published, most authors tend to write multiple novels before getting published. Sanderson was no exception and wrote something like five before getting published. But yes, he certainly has.

[@riley8385]

@@whoaitstiger Elantris was the first he published, Mistborn was the first actual novel he wrote.

[@bigkim1201]

I only got 70 odd pages into Mistborn before I had to give it up, kept wanting to like it but I just couldn't, the dialogue was unnatural and imo plain bad, and as a result I found myself really hating Kelsier. Is there some sort of turning point I should struggle through until, or am I just not likely to enjoy this series at all?