Joe Satriani on budget gear like the Rockman - Satch LIVE on AmpliTube Joe Satriani

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ikmultimedia

ikmultimedia

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 107
@joeullman2122
@joeullman2122 4 жыл бұрын
That classic Boston tone was my holy grail of 70s rock tone. Thank you IK and Joe for finally letting me relive my youth.
@ikmultimedia
@ikmultimedia 4 жыл бұрын
Glad to help! I have been craving a Rockman model in AmpliTube for years too. In my late middle school/early high school setup I used a Rockman out to two amps and it was great. Until I picked up a mighty 1980s JCM800 and fell in love. That Rockman sound, though, so great and such a part of many golden years of music.
@larslevinberget9558
@larslevinberget9558 Жыл бұрын
The Boston tone is truly rocket science, developed by Barry Goudreau, and Tom loved it so much, he scientifically analyzed it and made it the guitar sound of Boston. First, by duplicating Goudreau's rig for the Hideaway studio 1, Scholz himself, Barry, and Brad Delp. Not only guitars, but virtually any instrument - even drums and vocals!
@alessiozuccamusic
@alessiozuccamusic 4 жыл бұрын
Satriani still looks like a young teenage boy than loves to play guitar and HE IS 64 YEARS OLD!! Unbelieveble... God bless you Joe 🙏🏻
@leftbas65
@leftbas65 4 жыл бұрын
You mean 54.
@alessiozuccamusic
@alessiozuccamusic 4 жыл бұрын
@@leftbas65 no man. Satriani is born in 1956, if Wikipedia is right and math is not an opinion he's 64 yo
@leftbas65
@leftbas65 4 жыл бұрын
@@alessiozuccamusic whoops, my bad! :O
@alessiozuccamusic
@alessiozuccamusic 4 жыл бұрын
@@leftbas65 however he looks 45 ahahah
@Virtual-Media
@Virtual-Media 4 жыл бұрын
Music keeps you young, playing it even younger..
@mojorisen74
@mojorisen74 4 жыл бұрын
Tom Scholz may frown (Well known for his dislike of anything digital) but Guitarists all over the world are smiling ear to ear. Thank you Joe for helping to bring the Rockman sound to a plug in. It was long overdue
@oxnegative
@oxnegative 4 жыл бұрын
true
@BillDerBerg
@BillDerBerg 3 жыл бұрын
I hate digital distortion.
@larslevinberget9558
@larslevinberget9558 Жыл бұрын
OK...where is it??
@powellsa
@powellsa 6 ай бұрын
It's still not as good as the original Rockman tone. Nothing has quite nailed it.
@wolfsdenmusic9404
@wolfsdenmusic9404 3 жыл бұрын
I'm really psyched to get this soon. The Rockman was a huge part of my early recordings. When clean boosting that little thing, it just suit my playing style and inspired me. It will be so good to get that back after missing it for years. I've been chasing that tone for years trying to recreate it. Thank you to the whole team responsible for making this happen!
@mattloughran9445
@mattloughran9445 3 жыл бұрын
He said "Oh What A Feeling" at 3:53...Tom Sholtz is proud!
@ikmultimedia
@ikmultimedia 3 жыл бұрын
That sounds more like the Flashdance song by Irene Cara :) Once Joe gets "more than a feeling" it might send him down the Mass Pike toward Boston.
@hartleyroadmusic
@hartleyroadmusic 3 жыл бұрын
@@ikmultimedia Exactly. Let's get our song titles straight! LOL
@vitob5898
@vitob5898 2 жыл бұрын
So well said Joe...........Exactly the way I feel about my Yamaha THR10X. Been playing since 85 and spent 10s of thousands on gear over those years but the $300 I spent on the THR by far the best money ever spent!!
@martinkasper197
@martinkasper197 Жыл бұрын
The Rockman 100 was also the Sound of Def Lepperd's Hysteria...👍🤘🎸
@HeRacesTheSun
@HeRacesTheSun 4 ай бұрын
I still have my Rockman X-100, rack mount Sustainor & Chorus Delay, and Bass Rockman, the only guitar amps I use in my recording studio. During Boston's 1987 Third Stage Tour, I found out where the band was staying, we decided to go there for Brunch on Sunday. I felt so silly, but I took the face plate off my Sustainor and brought it with me. In the restaurant lobby I met and talked with Boston drummer Jim Masdea, and showed Jim the Rockman face plate, he laughed and said... "Oh wow, Tom would love that, that's his fun!" Then we walked out back where all the condo's were, we didn't go far, we didn't see anybody out there. We were just about to turn & leave, and in the distance I see a tall thin man with long dark hair walking with a little boy. I teased my girlfriend saying that's Tom Scholz, she hit me, stop teasing me that can't be him. We got a little closer, me still talking her into that it is Tom, her hitting me more but starting to believe me that it was Tom even though I knew it wasn't. Then as they were slowly walking toward us, nobody else around, my God it actually was Tom Scholz. Longer story shorter we talked a bit,i I thanked him for his music saying we were big fans, he was polite but reserved saying thank you. As I turned to leave, I almost forgot, and said... "Oh, and Tom, I'm not just a fan, I'm a customer also. He looked confused like what? Then I pulled out my Rockman face plate, and he got this huge smile and started laughing. We talked for a while, and I got my picture with him, still with his huge smile on from the crazy Boston fan who decided to bring his Rockman face plate with him, in the rare chance he might meet him, and meet him I did. I still have that awesome picture of me & Tom in my recording studio. Rockman still lives! All 3 of mine still work & sound like new.
@Spiritbro77
@Spiritbro77 2 жыл бұрын
I grew up on that sound. I was 15 when the first Boston album hit the airwaves. It was huge. Everyone wanted to sound like that. Thank you Joe and IK for putting it in Amplitube.
@kennethcohagen3539
@kennethcohagen3539 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Joe. There a guy in California the refurbishes these little guys. He did my soloist. I’m still looking for an X100, but the price has gone nuts! Dunlop should reissue them, they hold the patent. Also, take a look at the Goat Distortion Pedal. You’ll love it!
@christianfoster3806
@christianfoster3806 2 жыл бұрын
My lady just got me a sick laptop for xmas, that can actually run a DAW and a bunch of tracks and effects. So far, I'm running entirely on freeware, except for Reaper, MiGiC(guitar to MIDI converter), and as soon as I saw this in the free Amplitube, I had to have it. When converting from traditional, amp/pedals/ mic recording, when dealing with endless menus, the lack of options(distractions)on the Boston100 is a good thing. I like that I can just switch to distortion for a bitchin lead sound, and switch to clean 1 for a slick, lush clean tone, and focus my attention on playing creating rather than tweaking knobs awkwardly with the mouse pad.
@duxgarnifex3678
@duxgarnifex3678 3 жыл бұрын
When I listen to an 80's Def Lep album there is that Tom Scholtz sound right out of the box.
@jimmyevans6129
@jimmyevans6129 2 жыл бұрын
I had a Rockman, and a Power Soak on a full Marshall stack. No wonder I love Satch's sound.
@Mickcotton
@Mickcotton 2 жыл бұрын
Such a great interview.
@shaunmcinnis566
@shaunmcinnis566 2 жыл бұрын
Nice to hear this from Joe. There is always a stigma whereby cheap is bad, and you get what you pay for. That's often true, but sound dynamics are infinite. I often find musicians making decisions with there eyes rather than ears. If you blindfolded everyone who went in to a store buy musical gear, I bet we'd be surprised at what they leave with.
@stevengorum2727
@stevengorum2727 Жыл бұрын
My favorite 💖💖💖 I've owned many I like the rack-mount version is it 80s big hair rockin 7 nights a week premier 82 all the way up until 97 used it to death ....it's great for going " line in"...... Straight into the PA just bleed it heavy in through the monitors ... it sounds great in the Mains
@anthonytsi
@anthonytsi 8 ай бұрын
I had that same 5150 head in the late 90's. Loved it.
@Particle67
@Particle67 4 жыл бұрын
I tried it, IK nailed it. Awesome reproduction.
@ikmultimedia
@ikmultimedia 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Thank you!
@ProcashFloyd
@ProcashFloyd 4 жыл бұрын
was waiting for it forever. finally!
@pittbrat7963
@pittbrat7963 9 ай бұрын
Joe always sounds great! If Joe plays through a transistor radio , he still sounds killer
@jonnytranny9863
@jonnytranny9863 4 жыл бұрын
It was Joe's most interestng album ever, both in terms of sound and songwritting.
@mike42441
@mike42441 4 ай бұрын
Thanks Joe, this is awesome!
@jeanlawson9133
@jeanlawson9133 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Joe,,,for being Joe😎 always Awesomeness
@deanandthebeans857
@deanandthebeans857 2 жыл бұрын
Well said Joe! There’s too much snobbery over expensive gear - the sound is in your fingers!
@slammerband2009
@slammerband2009 2 жыл бұрын
Joe, you are awesome man.
@JimmyKSimmonsOfficial
@JimmyKSimmonsOfficial 2 жыл бұрын
1987 - used the Rockman (half sized rack mount product line) direct for my first album - should have seen the look on Rick (sound engineer at Planet Dallas Studios) when I showed up with my guitar, cord and Rockman products only!
@Mickcotton
@Mickcotton 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely Amazing 😻 Great Interview
@rareform6747
@rareform6747 2 жыл бұрын
Just play it into (2) DSL 100's or what ever tube amps into stereo . Game Changer !
@lawsonrussell874
@lawsonrussell874 3 жыл бұрын
I've been looking for rockman tone for long long time with VST. First I tried with the Amplitube 2, and the result was good enough, but it was not the real rockman. When i've heard about Satriani and IK had that tone, the first thing i did was try it, and.............wow, that was one of the best moments in my guitar player life. Even i could get the Walk on album tone mixing rockman with antother VST and FX, i can tell you that is out of this world. If i play along the Walk On album it seems to be in the studio with Scholz. That feeling has no price.
@CL_Audio_Tuning
@CL_Audio_Tuning 3 жыл бұрын
Still have my Rockman Distortion!! :D
@sanehumanbeing7019
@sanehumanbeing7019 3 жыл бұрын
I still hang on to my Scholz Sustainor preamps and guitar EQ, and use them occasionally. They are great for recording very clean tones. A nice alternative to the Jazz Chorus amp sound. I'm looking forward to using the Amplitube Rockman model for stereo clean tones, which is more hassle if I wanted to do that with my hardware Sustainor preamps.
@donaldyoung9838
@donaldyoung9838 8 ай бұрын
I have a original Rockman Soloist it os so kool
@JesseeSage
@JesseeSage Жыл бұрын
I'm also a fan of the Rockman devices, total analog and virtually indestructible . . But why not go with one or more of the half- rack mount units (Sustainer, Dist Generator, etc), they provide way more output.  Phil Collen of Def Leppard also praised the x100 in an interview with Sweetwater. Prior to that interview, I assumed Def Leppard (along with Mutt)were using the rack units, not this same little headphone device. Gotta praise Tom Scholz for creating such phenomenal effects.
@runingblackbear
@runingblackbear Жыл бұрын
Tom scholz show me his inventions in his home in 1971 he was so proud of his effects back then
@arsenaultgilles4557
@arsenaultgilles4557 11 ай бұрын
Cool interesting 😎 it is a great product with Joes backing it up I'm happy
@dannygreen1964
@dannygreen1964 20 күн бұрын
I'm glad the Scholz Rockman is coming back as a phone app. Now they need to start work on bringing back the Zoom 9002!
@maelinjoli
@maelinjoli 3 жыл бұрын
strangely enough you can use rockmam's clean 1 to record vocals!
@oatnoid
@oatnoid Жыл бұрын
I've had a Rockman for decades. It helped me play like Joe Satriani. Both of us used a guitar and a Rockman but that's about as far as the similarity went.
@Breakbeats92.5
@Breakbeats92.5 2 жыл бұрын
In the last few years I have gained a deeper appreciation for Tom Scholz of Boston. I never knew that Def Leppard used this little plastic headphone amp, the Rockman, to craft some of their biggest hit records. I mean, it's a practice amp with a belt clip and headphones ffs! R.J. Ronquillo did a fascinating video on it and unearthed some interesting stuff about the device. I want an original, I'm scared to death that the Dunlap version and/or the plugin won't be able to replicate it's signature sound.
@whatarefriends4
@whatarefriends4 8 ай бұрын
Well I trust Joe Satriani and now I want it!
@Virtual-Media
@Virtual-Media 4 жыл бұрын
Damn, Satch has me aching for the release of Amplitube 5..
@jimshomestudio
@jimshomestudio 2 жыл бұрын
I still keep the Rockman XPR as one of seven preamps in the rack. The cleans, yes. But also the high gain through a Marshall power amp, add Micropitch and it’s very convincingly Boston. The low pass filter is the first thing you notice. Top end noticeably absent.
@BillDerBerg
@BillDerBerg 3 жыл бұрын
at least Satch admits he used a Rockman in the studio, as so very many other guitarists in the 80s who used it on some very well known recordings don't dare admit using a Rockman to record them. Perhaps (misguidedly so) they'd appear like they're anti tube amp. But Billy Gibbons, Neil Gerardo, Steve Stevens, George Lynch, Tony MacAlpine, obviously Def Leppard among others made that solid-state tone extremely famous and it's nothing to be ashamed about.
@georgeallen6312
@georgeallen6312 Жыл бұрын
Back in the early days of the 80s i used to run my x100 thru a pa system, worked as advertise
@ppgf
@ppgf 4 жыл бұрын
Satch 🤩
@animalsindenialband
@animalsindenialband 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant! There's no such thing is as good gear or bad gear, there is only gear! Having imagination is what's important!
@DrAdams-fx6gy
@DrAdams-fx6gy 7 ай бұрын
Van Halen used a Rockman device in his rig for years. I never bought any of the modules when they cam out. Would have liked to but could afford them at the time.
@Me37368
@Me37368 4 жыл бұрын
I might have to buy this
@killacoiler1707
@killacoiler1707 2 жыл бұрын
I grew up loving the sound of Boston, Def Leppard, and Satch from the 80s but could never find the x-100 anywhere they were always sold out and when they were available I did not have the funds. I have never used a computer and plug-ins before and am not sure how this all works but I have to get a laptop that I can dedicate to this and get the amplitube 5 max. I will have to figure out how to do this because I need this sound profile in my life and in my arsenal of artistry. Is there a way to run this with a floor controller and interface back out to powered monitors so that it acts as an amplifier head? I am way out of my element with digital gear and this is a must for me without question.
@TheTheratfarmer
@TheTheratfarmer Жыл бұрын
The satch man, one of my favorite electric guitar players. Can one take the streio output, from a rockman x-100, ( to headphones) to a pre amp or tube amp speakers? The signal is the same. Lol. Get the right sterio adapter cables.
@DrAdams-fx6gy
@DrAdams-fx6gy 7 ай бұрын
I loved the Rockman X100. It had the tone that I wanted to hear. Years later I still had the Rockman and I'd tell people it had the tone that I loved, but others would say , I don't want to sound like Boston . I never sounded like Boston, I wasn't a fan of Boston. Music was good but just not my taste at that time. I use to have a battery charger that charged the batteries for the Rockman X100. I'd take it with my Sony tape player to the park and play for 6 hours until the batteries ran low. Go home take out other batteries that were on charge, switch them out recharge low batteries. I sounded like I wanted my sound. I just couldn't use it with a amp. Trying to get that tone with stomp boxes. I couldn't get it like I wanted. The sound just isn't for the devices you use but your hands. I have a difficult time playing if I can't get the tone or sound I hear in my head or a tone that I'm use to using it's part of me and tone. It would have been great to have something like this years ago when I was younger but now at my age I don't see myself purchasing new equipment. My love of the guitar and that tone is still there but love of playing isn't what it use to be since I can't play like I use to due to nerve damage from auto accident, depression and anxiety. Guitar use to take the last 2 away. Seeing Joe's enthusiasm reminds me of myself at one point. Would have great to have him as a instructor back years as go. Even just to talk with him would gave been inspiring. I always found it difficult to talk with other player who shared the enthusiasm for guitar and music as I did.
@fernandogarajalde4066
@fernandogarajalde4066 2 жыл бұрын
A perfect convergence: a digital Rockman suite that cuts out the hum and noise of the originals (I have one out of five that I bought over 35 years ago and it’s in a rack for rare use) and interfaces with the ik multimedia suite (which I use exclusively for home recordings). Let’s see if it fits in the budget. 😇
@emgex
@emgex 9 ай бұрын
Is there any pedal or amp on the market that nails the rockman x100 sound and effects?
@larslevinberget9558
@larslevinberget9558 3 жыл бұрын
Power Cosmic and The crush of love...I remember the Rockman to be a fairly expensive unit like 4-5 grand at the time it came out
@stevengorum2727
@stevengorum2727 Жыл бұрын
As a 40-year pro using every amp in the world ,..I look up at the rack mount...Rock- Man., !!!!!!!!!..I've used Ibanez tube screamers, Mesa boogies, Marshall stacks, fender deluxe reverbs , and every effect in the world and l have played ... Current top 40 hard Rock at the time current Def Leppard covers.current Cheap trick, Boston,Survivor, Van Halen, ZZ top etc..Nashville Chicago LA Phoenix the Aleutian Islands......😃 Using nothing but a rakemount Rock-Man.....Yes....
@sportsportsport
@sportsportsport Ай бұрын
Did Gary Moore use one of these on The Loner?
@monmixer
@monmixer Жыл бұрын
Use what ever works for you!!!! A Boss CE-2 chorus from the 80's is the best chorus ever made with a little 20 watt Fender Deluxe Reverb.
@runingblackbear
@runingblackbear Жыл бұрын
Anything Tom sholtz makes is top notch
@jameskimble6133
@jameskimble6133 3 жыл бұрын
The guy who taught Vai how to fly !
@jasonl1942
@jasonl1942 2 жыл бұрын
My God! You can get the sounds from the rockman X100?! Where? How? Can anyone tell me?!?!
@ikmultimedia
@ikmultimedia 2 жыл бұрын
AmpliTube Joe Satriani www.ikmultimedia.com/satriani
@johnmcevoy3598
@johnmcevoy3598 Жыл бұрын
I have a theory regarding Tom's insight (insound?) for its design I think he plugged a guitar into a channel strip and drove it until it lit up the peak LEDs. Jeff Beck did it. But Tom's ears really dialed in the saturation and made it sing, as opposed to JB's deliberately fizzy fuzz. That sugary, crunchy distortion was so satisfying, and the chorus is still, imho, one of the best voiced analog choruses *ever* Tom Sholz led many otherwise decent boys to ruin with this evil device.
@gilangfauzip
@gilangfauzip 4 жыл бұрын
Wow hai joe 😊
@CaptainCraigKWMRZ
@CaptainCraigKWMRZ 2 жыл бұрын
I graduated in '84 with a degree in Radio/TV from Indiana University, then moved to Dallas Sound Lab in Las Salinas. EVERYONE used the Rockman back then in the studio. I find it sad/amazing that Satches engineer had no knowledge of it. Sad.
@alien4422
@alien4422 4 жыл бұрын
Does this Joe Satriani collection come setup to get Joe's various sounds or does one have to spend hours dialing in the settings in an atempt to get it sounding like Joe?
@therealjackfisher
@therealjackfisher 4 жыл бұрын
You will not sound like Joe even if you use presets. In the end it all comes to your gear, your instrument and much more. The sound presets is only a part of the sound, you also have instrument, pickups, studio monitors, the room you are sitting in, your mix, and also the way you play/pick.
@ikmultimedia
@ikmultimedia 4 жыл бұрын
There are many presets included that were made in direct input from Joe.
@monkey1504
@monkey1504 4 жыл бұрын
@@ikmultimedia The presets for Always and Memories are scary, so accurate. I think they actually improved my playing on those songs! Great job folks.
@ikmultimedia
@ikmultimedia 4 жыл бұрын
@@monkey1504 Thank you!
@The_Kirk_Lazarus
@The_Kirk_Lazarus 3 жыл бұрын
Get a JS model. That will help with the tone.
@stevengorum2727
@stevengorum2727 Жыл бұрын
Do they have a 2023 Tom Schultz Rock-Man..... Equivalent ?
@sneifert1968
@sneifert1968 2 жыл бұрын
The sound of Hysteria.🤘
@shanedavis3414
@shanedavis3414 4 жыл бұрын
I'm new to the plugin stuff with the computer. Are you able to hook into your 4x12 cab at home , or do you always have to play through the computer speakers. I know !! , It's probably considered a dumbass question.
@ikmultimedia
@ikmultimedia 4 жыл бұрын
A 4x12 guitar speaker cabinet is going to require a load. They are not made to hook up to an audio interface. If you wanted to do that you'd need to also have a proper amp with a proper load in line. But for best results, you'd want to run through a full range speaker because guitar cabinets are made for amps hooked up to them thus the frequency range and coloration would be different.
@shanedavis3414
@shanedavis3414 4 жыл бұрын
Who gets to have input on this project , Dunlap , or Sholz or neither one ?
@peteytwofinger
@peteytwofinger 2 жыл бұрын
@@shanedavis3414 HEY SHANE - CONSIDER THIS - the whole concept of amp modeling means - you do not need an amp / cabinet . these tools are designed to ultimately deliver this sound thru full range flat response speaker systems. like a studio monitor is a good example. of course you certainly can run what ever you own thru what ever else you would like - is it going to perform well? No . if you are a 4x12 guy then consider taking a pass on amp modeling. Most of the players will use studio monitors or quality monitoring headphones , becuase the amp modeiling includes a cabinet simulation , a lot of these now you can load your own IR or impulse response which is a small file which represents the cabinet , speakers and mic . then you can REALLY dial in realistic custom tones but bringing a 4x12 to the party you might be missing the point. i would say this - every piece of gear has its place . for me amp modellling has not replaced actual amps , they still have their value and purpose but ... all consideration i dont use any of that heavy stuff anymore . my sound is also a lot better . a lot . i am 54 .
@Imnotyourdoormat
@Imnotyourdoormat 3 жыл бұрын
WOW, Scholz probably listens to "Flying in a Blue Dream" at night.......
@sonicmistress
@sonicmistress 2 жыл бұрын
I buy cheap gear on purpose, most have a unique 'sound' of their own, why would I buy a 'TS9' when they all pretty much sound the same (Copy or 1:1 Clone), I don't want to sound like everyone else. The listener (General Public who buy the music) doesn't have a clue or really care if you played through a 200k Dumble or Peavey Bandit and a couple of pedals. Sadly the Marketing has partly killed creativity and even more sad is, people fall for it even when they know that a £15 Behringer Tube Screamer is as close as one needs to be to a TS9! Nice video. Thanks.
@JeffWagner-i5w
@JeffWagner-i5w 2 ай бұрын
I own a sustainer chorus deley half rack
@ZeekMX
@ZeekMX 5 ай бұрын
I have need of you mister Satriani. I need all the Shalom you can give me. I need to create a music facility in Amarillo Texas for Veteran musicians with PTSD. We record here before going to Austin. You know how it works. I know you can't help financially but I know you might mention it to Tom. A sound room there will be dedicated to YOU. Lives are on the line, Including young people's lives. I think you understand we can't afford anymore casualties.
@machitect
@machitect 2 жыл бұрын
I wish they would make the analog thing again. It’s sounds infinitely better, but I guess this is better than nothing… right?
@harryprater9014
@harryprater9014 2 жыл бұрын
I don't care if something costs 5.00 bucks. If it sounds good and you like it....use it !!!!
@KBK286
@KBK286 4 жыл бұрын
Ik Multimedia made great jobs i put all my amps in Amplitube if i had to buy all the gears that figure in the modeling program or preset i should divorce thanks for all ...!
@magdump7380
@magdump7380 Жыл бұрын
I had the even cheaper version on the Rockman, the Soloist.
@KOLDBLU3ST33L
@KOLDBLU3ST33L 2 жыл бұрын
Wish he'd of played, using it... 😖
@ikmultimedia
@ikmultimedia 2 жыл бұрын
He did a whole song using his AmpliTube gear: www.ikmultimedia.com/satrianisong
@christopherreed2694
@christopherreed2694 2 жыл бұрын
That and your frickn Satch you could make a turd in a sock sound great 👍 👌 😉
@SanFranciscoFatboy
@SanFranciscoFatboy 11 ай бұрын
what did he just say ? we need things to be a guitarist?
@rodav671
@rodav671 5 ай бұрын
My X-100 ROCKMAN plugged straight into my MARSHALL super lead 100 is it for live or recording.
@ZeekMX
@ZeekMX 5 ай бұрын
Mr. Satriani, What are you doing without a Boston Shirt on while speaking of Tom Scholz? You have to be punished by helping make a new DSP That's why you need to see me in your office right away.
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@Person-cv9dj 4 жыл бұрын
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