Illegal? The Current State of 3D Printing Warhammer

[@Illiadofmalorne]

It is cheaper to buy a resin printer, resin, and print a Necron Monolith then it is to buy one. This is GWs fault, since they sell their models at that 900% markup.

[@docvaliant721]

They run their toy company like a diamond company.

[@Adlexi]

This sounds like a future project. Haven't printed out any big models but with the rhinos and monoliths are you needing to hollow(resin) these out or just peice them out?

[@Illiadofmalorne]

@@Adlexi The latter is usually best. Many people who make the 3D files have them broken down into large parts.

[@isiahduran2041]

No it's your fault. It's literally just you trying to be cheap, and not support the company, stop acting like they sell it for 10,000 dollars a model

[@pororocici]

@@isiahduran2041 K, you keep your plastic and I'll keep my money tqvm

[@smokeablesquid6519]

3D printing old hammer is like emulating a Nintendo game and should be supported

[@CdrChaos]

GW routinely brings back old models on a made to order basis. There’s nothing stopping them from keeping them on a made to order basis year round.

[@cobetx472]

even earthbound is cheaper than an army dude.

[@nikushim6665]

Why print "old hammer" when you can bust out the 3d scans of all the new stuff. Takes vary little effort with a decent scanner and a few hours in blender to get a near 1 to 1 copy STL

[@CdrChaos]

@ Discontinued units. Nostalgia. The new models are not an upgrade.

[@JagEterCoola]

Consider this: I'm not buying a $2000 Product either way, so they lose 0 revenue from me 3D Printing It anyways.

[@TeamBOBBYEE]

👌🏽

[@JavierRamos-uy5tt]

I'll buy the printer and sell you some figures for 30 bucks just get me the schematic lol

[@Vobefrod]

Exactly! Just like downloading movies you would never pay for personally, but HEY! at least I watched it and will promote the media if i liked it

[@randomnickify]

Consider this: It's MY product, I've spend considerable amount if money developing it and making it popular and you want it for free? I'll sue your ass! It's not about money It's about principles! And seriously, by sharing content for free, whatever its movie or figurine source file you are destroying the market, when the content is easily available for free noone will buy it, market for that content stops existing. I do expect lawsuits sweeping 3d printing community sooner than later, because people there clearly forget copyright exist for a reason.

[@JagEterCoola]

@@randomnickify Allow me to pick this apart real fast: >It's MY product This has never held up in court. Simply put, you don't own a 'product', you own an intellectual property or idea (which Is what Copyright pertains to). This means to strike someone with copyright in most civilized countries, you need to prove that they are infringing directly onto your intellectual property. >I've spend considerable amount if money developing it and making it popular Of* And again, this has no legal bearing, nor additional financial incentives. Logically, as long as your return of investment remains positive, there Is not a problem. If the product you produced costs SIGNIFICANTLY above what people are willing to pay, you run into the fact that a failing business has no right to exist in a capitalistic society. If you produced a Titan model that you're trying to sell for $2000, but people can create that very same titan model (including cost for equipment) at $1200, then that's your fault as a failing business that simply can not compete in a markets demand. Attempts to stifle competition in this way Is called a monopoly, and It Is illegal. >It's not about money It's about principles! What principles? Most companies sell their soul for money. What plausible principles are you talking about that would get the ear of any courtroom? >And seriously, by sharing content for free, whatever its movie or figurine source file you are destroying the market, when the content is easily available for free noone will buy it, market for that content stops existing. See: www.engadget.com/2017-09-22-eu-suppressed-study-piracy-no-sales-impact.html > I do expect lawsuits sweeping 3d printing community sooner than later. _Good fucking luck holy shit_. I don't think you understand exactly what you're saying here - It would be Multi hundred-_million_ operation to crack down on 3D Printing communities and faux miniatures. Good. Fucking. Luck. >because people there clearly forget copyright exist for a reason. Copyright exists for a reason, but Its use Is more akin to that of a sledgehammer to bring down on any competition or criticism of your product, which has devalued It significantly in at least European courts.

[@spookyindeed]

I like how in the 90's GW literally included instructions on how to make terrain from the trash and now you need like $1000 to have a playable army.

[@adamduffield7782]

The good old days when games workahop was privately owned, and not public shareholders! When games workshop ment sometging to its name, ie gaming and workshop ie arts and crafts

[@chestersleezer8821]

Oh and that $1,000 will barely get you a bare minimum army and if you want something special in your army it will back closer to $1,500 or more. I am glad that I got my GW miniatures back in the early to mid 1990's. Since today their miniatures are just overprice pieces of crap.

[@dwagin6315]

I hate how people try to justify the price by saying it's cheaper than other hobbies. Like it doesn't matter, I shouldn't have to drop 1k just to have a playable army lmao.

[@RockmeHellsing]

They included instruktions to make a rhino and a Baneblade out of cardboard in the late 90s! This was for the Hobby , for the Players and the Greed was not so bad.

[@M-Htike]

I remember this. It was so wholesome back then. The minis were still expensive as always espicially for someone who is a child without a job but the fact that they included arts and craft using every day objects was so good.

[@theoverpreparerlamenters3r436]

"You can't 3D print a duplicate of my models, I'll sue you!" "Still cheaper than your models."

[@kirkcrawford5091]

Yea I mean when you can buy a 3D printer for less then one of their models seem more to me like GW needs to update their manufacturing process 600 bucks for a model is insane

[@Delta-lb1ck]

@@kirkcrawford5091 Their process is probably really efficient, but people will buy at high prices, so they keep the prices high, to make the largest profit per unit.

[@nickbrock1940]

Actually yeah

[@kirkcrawford5091]

@@Delta-lb1ck yea. You are probably right. Haven’t been into the tabletop for years since I was young but I remember them being quite expensive then and it was either I use what little money I was making to buy models or dirt bike parts( I chose the dirt bike lmao)

[@localneo-graphic4647]

@@kirkcrawford5091 When I saw my friends in college spending stupid money on this crap and defending it, I told them I'd buy the stock instead to show them how idiotic they were for defending the prices. I spent less on GW stock than they did on their armies, but while they have their 40k army, I have 40k profits.

[@donteros]

Gotta be honest. The more community and consumer hostile GW gets the more I support 3D printing.

[@Epiphalactic]

This is how I feel about gun control too lol

[@clownontherun3449]

@@Epiphalactic it’s an infinite circle, the moment someone bigger (company/government) tries to push creative people the more people become interested or sometimes just do it out of spite. I ain’t against printing guns but if anyone is going to please be safe and don’t take them off your property. It’s a weird legal gray zone rn and I don’t want people who are proud of their creations to be harmed or scrutinized because of something they love creating.

[@stoybenxi7395]

Seize the means of production

[@Epiphalactic]

@@clownontherun3449 depends where you live. I can carry mine. I make them it's not a weird grayzone. It's completely legal where I'm at. Thankfully

[@SampleMehard]

Very good vid gettin into 3d printing myself with my dad. Have been looking around for files to print and general info. This is one of the best info wise

[@Zoey--]

Better question. Why does a titan cost more than a 3D printer that can be used to make titans. The main barrier for fan entry is the insane price. I'd be lucky to see $665 a month in disposable income yet alone waste it on a model.

[@ravenstarver1360]

Fyi the phrase is 'let alone'

[@evanroberts2771]

@@ravenstarver1360 It's the same as golf, or polo, or model making. Not everyone can afford the hobbies they want.

[@Hodoss]

@@evanroberts2771 You generally can if you’re smart about it, it can even generate revenue. Like here, 3D print, and you can even sell some.

[@christianasch9176]

@@evanroberts2771 You can, just 3D print the models.

[@Sizdothyx]

Branding, duh. The price is high, but it's all down to branding. That's it. It's why movie tickets vary between locally-made fare and the big blockbusters. Are you seriously asking _why_ something is expensive? Because the company that does it can afford to sell it at that price and that they have enough brand recognition _to_ sell it at that.

[@H_P_Lovecraft]

When a company has abused their own customers for years and has left certain parts of their own product basically abandoned, nothing is off the table when it comes to making your own models or other fan products, since their copyright policies are essentially illegal themselves

[@chiselcheswick5673]

This is typical of a victim mentality that people seem to have these days. Its a choice hobby for god sake... its not as though they are selling life essentials. If you don't like the way they operate don't buy them anymore. Its not a difficult concept.

[@parkerwilliams7236]

@@chiselcheswick5673 That's the whole point of the video and the comment. They aren't going to buy them anymore, they'll 3d print them. Were you paying attention?

[@bayoutalon]

@@parkerwilliams7236 he clearly wasn't and probably doesn't do so usually

[@H_P_Lovecraft]

@@bayoutalon don’t bother brother, it’s just a shill bot programmed by Games Workshop to locate and delegitimize people who don’t like them

[@lionsoldier1179]

I’m interested by how you say the copyright policies are “essentially illegal.” Can you tell me more? I’m actually mulling over trying to sell printed models and would like an easy way to familiarize myself with GW’s copyright law instead of dying reading legal jargon.

[@ChozoSR388]

Welcome back to the '90s; "You wouldn't DOWNLOAD a WIZARD"

[@ffwast]

HELL YEAH I'D DOWNLOAD A WIZARD

[@spiritbox9039]

YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR!

[@red-2895]

@@spiritbox9039 *you underestimate me*

[@zwenkwiel816]

@@spiritbox9039 I would if they'd be on the piratebay

[@k.v.7681]

I laugh every time I pop an old dvd in the player and that ad plays. It was sooo over the top and needlessly aggressive. You felt like downloading was like killing your grandma XD

[@BittyVids]

I wouldn’t print and sell their stuff. But I’m going to absolutely print anything I please for my own personally use.

[@raventhc8847]

I think printing for playing it yourself can't be sue and I think people should be free to print what they want. Though there are many people who sell the printed one at the lower price and I think no one should support that kind of behavior.

[@Ike_of_pyke]

I'd sell custom pieces that GW doesn't make

[@raventhc8847]

@@Ike_of_pyke Well, the video did mention that GW allowed custom pieces if the design isn’t the same as the original one that they make.

[@PipoZePoulp]

@@raventhc8847 "if the design isn't the same" that's a lot of wiggle room to consider yourself safe from lawsuit and to let GW legal department think they have a case

[@vralingfrostmere1561]

i agree whole heartedly, if i can 3d print an entire army of several 10 man squads, several tanks, an entire command group, some walkers, and heavy artillery for less than $500 that's a huge fucking win (i play a dkok army and on forge world this sort of shit would have left me in maybe close to $800-$1000)

[@Dj.MODÆO]

GW did this to themselves…..if I can manufacture the model cheaper in my garage than they sell them from the factory, they are price gouging and being greedy

[@ruthiekest3218]

Correct

[@rebree5137]

Honestly its not even about being more expensive its about how much more expensive it is. After u got a really good printer and you decide to print a whole army ur most likely already saving money from one army alone.

[@paulelephant9521]

If you included the time/cost to sculpt and then convert this to a printer file you might find that cost balance changes dramatically. The cost of an object is not just based on manufacturing inputs, you've also got r+d, marketing etc to include.

[@maxie706]

@@paulelephant9521 sure, but I pay 4 quid to my patron guy a month and he gives me back an entire army of models to print, still seems worth it to me

[@adamduffield7782]

​@@paulelephant9521and when sculpters can sell their stl files for just a few dollers, you are personally paying a sculpter for their work, and even using paid for stl files to print, your still saving a buttload of cash

[@ClockwerkMan]

Here's the real question- Why would anyone give a shit if GW went under? The IP would still exist, and it's hard to imagine a company buying it doing a worse job than GW

[@QuestGiver]

Huh. So refusing to buy from them actually helps improve the IP. Huh....

[@KaasSchaaf666]

@@QuestGiver it's called capitalism and free markets, most Americans are familiar with it. If GW scales down their prices for some products, maybe they can make more profit on quantity?

[@saznoozalot]

as it goes, the main thing that GW do for WH40K is be insanely protective of their IP, which usually translates into high quality off-tabletop content. Well, maybe high-quality is a stretch, but WH40K is sure as shit not going the way of star wars. I can't say I'd want WH40K to be in anyone else's hands.

[@ThatGuyKazz]

@@saznoozalot Do me a favor and scroll through the list of Warhammer games and then re-evaluate that "high quality" statement. Most of them are at best charming jank and at worst soulless cash grabs. IMO the only high-quality product coming out of the IP are the tabletop models and even then the quality doesn't justify the cost.

[@customizablemilk353]

amazon: "let me introduce myself"

[@eskandare1968]

$1000 for a Warlord Titan? No, actually try approximately $70 with a well tuned FDM printer like an Ender 5.

[@bigchungus7050]

Probably added cost of printer?

[@fastbyte4583]

@@bigchungus7050 300 or more if you want upgrades

[@MrDavidKord]

I think that's how much the person who created and painted the figure is selling it for.

[@capawesome3d988]

dude, you can buy nowdays a resing printer for 200 bucks, and they are amazing.

[@bigchungus7050]

@@fastbyte4583 damn eh printers got cheap fast haven't looked into em in a minute

[@sylvandanica9241]

My son was very excited to play Warhammer 40K. He is just at the edge of being a teenager, and I love that he wants to start a hobby like this that involves planning, creating, reading, etc. If it weren't for 3D printed miniatures he would never be able to play. The books are insanely priced, the miniatures are insanely priced, and there is no way for teens or broke adults to start playing. Dungeons and Dragons is rapidly getting to that point as well. I am so freakin' grateful for 3D printing.

[@perotekku]

GW has a monopoly, plain and simple. Yes, I understand it's their rules and their game and their IP. But there are dozens of other wargames that let players run any proxies they'd like. GW only gets away with their insane pricing model because they're seen as the best and biggest out there. When I was a teenager, I was able to build three armies, and paint them, all on a minimum wage, part-time salary. Adjusted for inflation, I was only paying about 60-70% of what GW charges now, for the same molds and kits, just with newer boxes nowadays. I think it's completely justified, if not even laudable, for the greater community to start printing or sourcing models from cheaper sources, especially when 3rd party miniatures are often higher quality/cheaper/come with more build options. Example of the last one, the Veteran Guardsmen Kill Team only lets you build it one way. If you want to run without a medic, or add a demolitions expert, or run 4 extra guardsmen instead of a tactical strike; too bad. Where you can buy an .stl for $10-15 that gives you endless possibilities for how to build them. It's a no brainer. I guess to sum it up: GW, instead of doubling down on copyright crackdowns, and marking up their own models, should have seen their place at the top of the industry, and relaxed their rules on 3rd party models. Allowing people to use cheaper models gets them to buy your rulebooks, paints, dice sets. They come to your stores, maybe even buy some of GWs own models. Instead, locally, I've seen huge exodus of gamers from our local GW store, to smaller and independent hobby stores.

[@perotekku]

I actually went and checked prices: I bought a Cadian Squad, which is 20 models with enough parts to make 2, 10 man squads if you'd like. I paid $30USD in 2009 for them. 14 years later and now it's $50USD for 10 models. Granted, these are newer/nicer sculpts, but still wildly priced for a "horde" army. $30 in 2009 is $43 in 2023, so while I understand not all products follow general inflation, that would be $43 for 20 models. So I paid $2.15 per Guardsman, and they now cost $5 per Guardsman. 143% general inflation, and GW's inflation is 232%.

[@chaoticclonestudios]

​@@perotekkui actually compared the prices between a hobby shop i know and an offical warhammer store recently An official warhammer store i went to was selling a pack of 5 marines (i couldnt say exactly which one) it was priced at $130 nzd and about a month later i went to a hobby store in a smaller town the sxact same pack was $103 nzd not that much cheaper but still a markup

[@embearasedbear3694]

D and D sucks

[@sharkpyro93]

how is dnd getting to that point? its just a bunch of rules

[@The_Wosh]

Imagine thinking saving money is bad,if I can get something by 3d printing it and save enough money by doing so to buy another 3d printer then the problem is the price of the original thing and nothing else

[@johndorian4078]

And when you have hobbyists out there making designs for free you cant even argue that they have to pay sculpters thousands of dollars to design them.

[@Marth667]

@@johndorian4078 People love and I mean LOVE the lore, hobby and the community. What they unanimously hate is the GW's business model, its reaction to anything fan made by ban hammering it (take the recent censure of 40k animators) and of course price of said products. They frankly don't deserve their IP if they continue their anti-consumer actions and just outright neglect for their community.

[@astro6009]

@@Marth667 That nod to the Pillar Men Custodes at the end of the video pained me. RIP TTS.

[@dontnerfmebro8052]

I've wanted to get into 40k for years. Dropped 100 bucks years ago for what i later learned was not even a quarter of enough points to even play. The cost of paints, decent supplies, ect, on top of the crazy prices for the minis made me already drag my feet in actually getting into it. Then i found out how much ONE book costs, not even including the faction books, the supplement and equipment books, the subchapter books.... i threw my marines in a box and years later just gave them away. Fast forward to about 2 years ago and i bought some tau pathfinders. Absolutely love the look of their mechas. Havent touched them since painting them, most arnt even finished cuz when tf was i ever actually going to afford to build an army? Now i got a 3D printer..... Screw GW.

[@culterwaleddy]

It's only illegal in the US if a person tries to sell them, but even then it's largely unenforceable. Suck it GW.

[@ev6558]

No idea where you got this ridiculous notion, but the reason it's called "copyright" is because it refers to the right to copy. Making unauthorized reproductions is copyright infringement.

[@george_denbrough]

@@ev6558 Yeah no shit, but as long as you're not selling them you'd never get caught, hence the unenforceable part

[@ev6558]

@@george_denbrough OP said it wasn't illegal if they weren't being sold, not just that it wasn't enforceable. You know you look pretty dumb when you say "no shit" and then demonstrate that you don't actually know what you're talking about.

[@dr.dylansgame5583]

@@ev6558 actually you just played yourself with that one considering making yourself something not for resale even if it infinges on copyright is completely legal as long as its not getting resold. So in the end the poster is actually correct in that assumption of legality/legal status. It's actually quite similar to the rules with homemade firearms it doesn't need testing in a lab or a serial number etched into it. However just like the last case you just don't sell it to anyone else and its all fine and dandy. you could most likely even use it under all laws governing normal firearms including I believe seld defense in home within reason. So to be frank the irony of calling someone out for being dumb in this situation is not missed.

[@ev6558]

@@dr.dylansgame5583 Nope, you're wrong. They can still have a court order you to stop and easily argue that you 3D printing their minis instead of buying them is costing them sales. It wouldn't be worth their time unless you were selling them and making money, but it is absolutely not "completely legal" and you also have no clue what you're talking about.

[@aclevername7613]

Its ethical to me due to how overly expensive they sell the figures for.

[@barflordlord9273]

Where can I find the stls

[@syrusalder7795]

@@barflordlord9273 i like that you think some complete rando knows that

[@barflordlord9273]

@@syrusalder7795 thingiverse has some

[@syrusalder7795]

@@barflordlord9273 unless Aclever Name is secretly thingiverse, then there is still no point asking them for the stls. Its taking some rando off the street and asking for the code for the combination safe your neighbour keeps in their dildo drawer

[@TheBelrick]

piracy aka copying. Is the markets reaction to anti consumerism. It is a necessary and morale force

[@sleepygryph]

GW lost the Space Marine copyright, one reason they rebranded to Astartes.

[@blackdragon5274]

How about forge world? That was a Halo map

[@luketfer]

Just confirming this they actually LOST of the trademark on 'Space Marine' because it was too generic. It's always why they've been going around rebranding all their 'generic' named armies into more trademark/copyrightable names. So Imperial Guard becomes Astra Militarium. Orcs become Orruks and so on.

[@melodywave3]

@@blackdragon5274 loved playing custom games on halo

[@nocturnal101ravenous6]

@@luketfer Yes exactly its why with D&D people and companies can create lines, there is a point where it is a generic term you cannot copyright Wizard, Mage, Thief and such, even the races are generalized with only name being really unique, yet they are so un unique because there is a host of IPs that use similar races.

[@paddington1670]

@@blackdragon5274 Forgeworld existed looooooong before Halo ever did

[@saltysalt7339]

The point of industry was that it was cheaper than making it themselves as a consumer. It is all about greedy stocks these days

[@wrynil]

If GW actually treated their fans and customers with respect maybe we would see less 3d printing...

[@TheBelrick]

The thing is ; fans NEVER needed warhammer to write rules and make models. Yes they cornered the market but no they are not irreplaceable.

[@alt0248]

I mean, I still want custom stuff I made. But as of right now I feel most xenos armies are slowly moving towards custom models since GW doesn't even want to support them.

[@TheBelrick]

@@alt0248 higher quality models too and we get to meet the artists and like them. Also its minus the horrendous white male hating identity politics which has invaded and subverted GW .

[@nickgennady]

@@alt0248 yha seraphon in AOS still using old models that look like shit.

[@ExeErdna]

@@alt0248 In fact it feels like GW played themselves. NEW people maybe buying yet people that want certain things that they can't get 3D Printing is the better path

[@jameshunt4097]

There's a seriously easy solution to this problem. GW just need to lower their ludicrous prices and then people won't look towards 3D printing

[@astro6009]

And also treat their fans better. I've been mulling over my first 40K purchase, but then Alfabusa cancelled TTS out of fear of GW's zero-tolerance policy. 40K tastes a little sour now. TTS was a huge contributor to my interest in the IP.

[@thomasgross8289]

@@astro6009 i feel the same, was going to get into warhammer 40k but GWs buisness practices has put me off it

[@sloppyoyster5779]

I wanting to get into painting warhammer but seeing the price of $60 for necrons not counting paintings. Adding the facts of not knowing how to paint would be $60 down the drain so thinking about buying a 3d printer instead.

[@k.v.7681]

I started in my late teens and have been on a long hiatus ever since. I worked for a considerable time as a teen for summer jobs and odd tasks around the year and put a bit of money on the side every week. I was 15, and sooo happy to go and buy a couple boxes of fantasy Skaven, a full kit of paints, brushes... the GW dude behind the counter was all smiles, welcoming me into the community. 6 months later, the game was axed. My awesome ratmen were obsolete. Now obviously, I was a noob, the news must have been circulating for some time etc, but I didn't know, and kinda felt scammed. Never bought anything from them again. 300€ down the drain as a teenager kinda pissed me off.

[@pshalleck]

​@@k.v.7681 It's sad when a game loses official support, but the great thing about physical games is that you still have the pieces. The Miniature Police don't show up and confiscate your models and books; well, not at local independent stores at least. I have no idea about official GW stores. But in most communities there are usually hold-outs refusing to update their rulebooks to new editions, and folks playing long-dead games. As mentioned in the video, there are fan groups that continue to compile rules judgments, officially-unofficial errata, etc., some of which get adopted by large conventions. And, they're models. You can use them for Dungeons & Dragons, or any game they'd make sense. Heck, I bought some Nighthaunts to make a Halloween diorama, I don't even play Age of Sigmar (although weird tie-in, I kind of want to make a Skaven army for AoS! So if you still have those models and don't want them, I'm in the market...) A tangential topic I saw someone else mention recently was about GW culture kind of making people identify as a "40k player" or an "Age of Sigmar player" and buying within their lines, whereas wargaming culture used to be much more about trying stuff and you'd play different games every week; so sometimes you're like, "This looks cool, let's find out if we have any models we can use for it."

[@idanthyrsus6887]

When they charge so much for something so cheap I don't question morality anymore. They don't deserve the consideration.

[@rhino2960]

0:14 theres an actual science fiction reason for it in the lore itself, but I prefer the reason given by the emperor himself in TTS "no girls allowed, they are yucky"

[@MrTwistedLizard]

Im sorry but who are these "fanboys" that are griping on this Majority of the Warhammer fans I know laugh at the idea of GW losing profit, or promote kit bashing using cheaper models.

[@snarst]

At my local gamestore my group has talked about how we try to avoid ordering from GW directly whenever possible. We don't like GW that much and want to support our local store. Forge world and 3rd party modals are ok and the only criticisms I ever recall of 3d printing was that the quality was not as good. There is another group that is more strict and competitive that meets on a different day of the week but even they don't really seem to care about GW's profits and admire the work people put into good modifications and proxies that don't look out of place.

[@AidanMclaren]

Internet shills meant to control dissent.

[@TheMorrigan31]

No idea how they pulled it off but GW has a massive Propaganda machine and that alone is the reason we'll never get rid of them

[@norXmal]

They got that hate for being so damn greedy and outrageous with their pricing.

[@Pt_Lacky]

Likely people let the Reddit cloud there impression of the community.

[@PeterSFam]

Yeah playing Warhammer is more expensive that a serious cocaine habit and even less socially acceptable..

[@vampyr2936]

I know a guy thay used to be a coke dealer and he actually laughed when I told him the cost of a single Warlord

[@EmilReiko]

Some deal cocaine, to afford their warhammer addiction..

[@AftermathRV]

not quite, i know people who have sniffed a house worth of cocaine into their brain within a year, its expensive, but not that expensive

[@TeamBOBBYEE]

This ; this right here

[@zwenkwiel816]

@@EmilReiko and some deal Warhammer to afford their cocaine addiction we call them GW (at least that's what I'm assuming they need all that money for) XD

[@marcusinfestus1333]

I know lots of people who love warhammer, 40k, blood bowl, battlefleet gothic, and on and on. I don't know a single person who likes GW...

[@wheeliebin18]

What is insane is that nearly everywhere else that sells the minis, prices them cheaper than GW!

[@constantinekorkousky3363]

@@wheeliebin18 same! I don’t get why anyone would pay for a $90 start collecting kit from GW, when it’s 65 on amazon

[@aspectnato8077]

​@wheeliebin18 yah, I was shopping around for Lictor models not direct from GW, it's still pricey but I'd rather save a fiver *and* get free shipping 🤷‍♂️

[@Uber_GoobTube]

After a house fire and losing my two armies. 3d printing is the only reason I ever got back into warhammer. I've never had a player be upset I printed my own army, players just want more people to play with. As the years go by, more and more people bring prints to the table, and were more concerned about how cool and unique they are instead of being priced at the 65 cents it takes to print it instead of someones 8 dollar marine or 70 dollar big unit.

[@DungeonMiser]

GW: "We aggressively protect the intellectual property rights of the property we aggressively stole from other science fiction and fantasy creators."

[@BullScrapPracEff]

70 million times the like.

[@HacksawsHobbyBunker]

I regret that I can add only 1 like to this. While GW does have a lot of neat, original ideas, much of the time it's like Chinese knock-off manufacturers being angry about someone "infringing" on their IP.

[@MrMountie]

Feels like this is something that should be discussed more when talking about this subject. If someone is referencing specific game rules, balance, etc., then sure - they created most of it. But the visual designs of their supposed intellectual property? Its pretty much all straight up rip-offs from other creators.

[@MichaelAlthauser]

This is such BS though. Yes, Warhammer 40K takes it's inspiration from a lot of other sci-fi properties. But um... guess what? So does literally everything else. And over the past 30+ years, the 40k IP has become it's own distinct thing, and I can't fault GW for wanting to protect their intellectual property.

[@HacksawsHobbyBunker]

@@MichaelAlthauser I certainly don't fault them for protecting their original IP, I just take issue when they do things like - try and sue others for use of the term "Space Marine". Sorry, GW, you didn't even come close to inventing that. Talk about hubris. And while pretty much all of sci-fi and fantasy indeed take inspiration from prior art, the difference is that almost none of them except GW resort to lawyers over it.

[@timbo853]

it illegal or unethical to 3d print? Don’t care. GW is a terrible and predatory company that screws anyone and everyone who is creative and tries to make fan content. Long story short, they should go bankrupt.

[@ericbrown-yq2ey]

the day i heard about the hiatus of TTS *cue the pirate music!

[@everfreesnarrations35]

Agreed, they need new management.

[@RiptoGakt]

They could've gone on board with that and just sold specs for printable miniatures that their 3D Printer using customers can make use of themselves. That, and provide a means for a discount on alternate painting/modeling supplies ordered online with a code given from them to do so... or even coupons if they have to. *That* would have given people an incentive and ensured they'd still have a customer base.

[@Blacklightprince]

Aye……. The 3D printing art should’ve bunkrupt games work ship a long time ago..

[@WiseOldBill]

Let GW suffer, people outside the UK probably don't know this but GW are a gaggle of predatory bastards who would move into area's to force out or just buy out other model stores and then those GW stores would inevitably fail due to low demand (this is during the 2000's and early 2010's when it was a niche nerd hobby) leaving "hobby deserts" so i now have to get all my hobby materials off of amazon because small UK model shops online don't stock terrain supplies and there are no physical hobby shops anywhere near me.

[@seangrimm1865]

The disdain I have for GW can only be described as galactic. As someone who's been involved in this hobby since the late '80s, I've seen GW gouge prices year after year after year like clockwork with no regard for the community. Removing models from play, changing additions, blatantly power creeping armies for the sake of sales, and waiting until God's tears hit the ground before they release a new Tyranids codex makes me care not one bit for the ethos behind 3D printing. If they were smart, they'd get in front of this in certain embracing it rather than chasing the almighty investor / shareholder capitalist dollar

[@KittSpiken]

Ooo how bout 'brobdingnagian?'

[@mq5731]

Hey, are Female Space Marines OK if we make it only Cato Siccarius? I feel like everyone would feel better about it if they could hate fuck their frustrations out on some spicy R34 art

[@AtlasRathbane4346]

I agree, I will do EVERYTHING in my power to bring their sales down 4 life. I despise them for what they've done over the years. Love the IP hate the company and their methods

[@steveharrison76]

Same here, brother. Old rogue trader player, worked for 'em in the nineties, saw the collapse into vulturism. We've had more editions of 40K in the last twenty years than we've had in the first twenty years. That's a clue. Their models (especially fantasy - this doesn't really apply to 40k) are increasingly IP-centric and thus have less utility outside their own games. That's another clue. They are simply a way to hose people's wallets out, nothing more, nothing less. All they want is all the money. They have no interest in providing a fun product.

[@captnwinkle]

I hope you enjoy your Tyranid Codex before next year ot becomes obsolete. I have yet to use mine...

[@momatotsosrorudodi]

3D printing WH40k is explicitly legal, but you run into trouble once you start selling the figures.

[@skelo9033]

I don’t know why GW doesn’t just sell the files for money online,its another way to make money.

[@bigbake132]

I think that's their "Hail Mary" play and will only use it as a last option.

[@victoriaevelyn3953]

You know they'd be undercut by a far better made fan model

[@ProtesttheAntagonist]

Because then someone can buy those files and share them? There's absolutely no way to make files that work on currently available printers that can't be shared.

[@M.r..R.i.c.e.]

@@ProtesttheAntagonist they can make proprietary software and files incompatible with anything else. You could still pirate it, but pirating software is much harder than files

[@kronickingpin]

@@ProtesttheAntagonist that's a stupid take because people already create and share the files and gw doesn't make any money on it already

[@KardboardKenny]

as an Old Fart, this is the same bs argument that the release of blank cassettes and the music industry, and lo and behold, the music industry still exists.

[@ILYSNAF]

It is simple economics. If you make a good, high quality product at a reasonable or even good price. People will buy it. If you lose 1, 2 or all those qualities people will look elsewhere. Losing 1 isn't going to bankrupt you most likely. 2 or 3 are next to if not completely impossible to profit on.

[@joshuaclark3406]

Same principle when Steam and distribution became mainstream. People abandoned piracy in droves because it was now easy and affordable to purchase and install games via the web.

[@ashlevrier]

well to be fair what happed to the music industry is they had to adjust to the tech or piracy would have killed it. look at music now. its super cheap to get the song you want. that's because if it is to expensive then people will by nature go to the cheaper way. that way was illegal downloads. now guess what we are seeing a repeat just this time it is figures and not music. GW and any one els will have to lower there prices or lose out to pirates.

[@ashlevrier]

@@joshuaclark3406 yep. GW will have to do as the music and games industry and keep prices low.

[@joshuaclark3406]

@@ashlevrier That's true, I guess the point I was trying to make is that it's still prohibitively difficult to replace GW entirely with 3D prints. Until the point at which that difficulty reaches parity with the ease of just buying models from GW, then I can't see it ever starting to make a dent IMHO.

[@someguy3763]

Honestly I’d encourage more 3D printing so GW starts pulling down their prices. What’s unethical is how they treat their consumers. I find it weird how a majority of the community will call this out for being unethical, and then do a 180 and complain about GW business decisions and gradual price markups as models fall in and out of production. Well this is the solution people. Once the inflated demand via scarcity for buying their overpriced models decreases, the price will decrease and demand will rise again. Not that it has to ALWAYS be cheaper than 3D printing, as long as it’s a reasonable price and it remains convenient. The reason so many people don’t 3D print is not just because of cost, but convenience. You’re not just dumping money in, you’re dumping time. It’s technically a skill since you have to learn how to use new software and scour the internet for templates. The quality of the print might even be bad. There’s plenty of things that can go wrong. The simple convenience of knowing that you can purchase a model, and be certain that it won’t come looking like a plastic tumor but almost what it looks like on the box is convenient. Now some people don’t care about quality, but that’s a whole other box of assholes. It sucks to play against someone with a bunch of unpainted monstrosities when the point is to retain somewhat of the atmosphere. And it’s not as if they only make money through models, despite it being their primary thing. You can still choose to support GW financially by purchasing the Codex’s, books, merchandise, plenty of other things.

[@gaberielpendragon]

Supply and demand. If GW can't meet the demand, they don't deserve to function as a company. Charging too much for your product is not meeting demand, and the cost of making 3d plastic models continues to drop like crazy. As such the price of models should also be dropping. As they aren't, or are going up, we just know GW is price gouging like crazy.

[@CrusaderSports250]

@@gaberielpendragon the biggest problem is as the company has grown so has its unproductive management, this is the same for almost all companies. Unfortunately growing management are very expensive, don't produce revenue and are seen as necessary by management, you will never hear this from a management consultant!, this ends up with higher prices, fewer productive staff with a greater workload, this has been the way for decades, and is so entrenched it has become the system, the whole social/business model would have to change to fix this and I don't see that happening any time soon, so let's enjoy the high prices ripping us off!!.

[@gaberielpendragon]

@@CrusaderSports250 or be intelligent consumers and force them to change. Moving to 3d printing models is one way to do that and still pay the game. Other options include finding another game to play. Consumers support that poor management style by continuing to buy. The third option is to sue them to force change. Of which anyone can do, shareholders will have more avenues to do so.

[@omega1575]

A buddy of mine got into 3D printing minis while he was in college. If memory serves, the army he printed would’ve cost over 10% of his tuition, and he didn’t have to pay a dime since his school has a 3D print club

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

I'm so old, I remember when GW had holiday sales in America. Those were the days. In all honestly, I worked for GW for two years right near US HQ. All I can say is after the accounting guy bought out the creatives the company became about one thing. Milking the customers. "They [customers] are morons for buying plastic at double the price of handspun pewter. They are addicted and will pay anything we say" - literal coporate head at a region meeting when I asked him how it was more expensive to make guard in plastic than pewter lol.

[@gaberielpendragon]

Seriously. The costs of plastic continue to drop over time, as does the means to mass produce models, yet their prices continue to go up. If anything is criminal, it's that.

[@JohnDoe-or2qg]

Dp you think that one day they might go back to that business model?

[@totallynottrademarked5279]

@@JohnDoe-or2qg Fuck no. They are even changing rules systems to have fewer models on the table at the same if not higher price.

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

I thought this guy was a lawyer! My mistake!

[@PhononLabs]

Well, on one hand, everything is more expensive due to inflation. They have to pay for plastic, but also for taxes, pay employees, marketing, etc. That has a cost and that must be reflected in the price. That's simply how every business works. On the other hand, every year their benefits are higher and I am sure that their employees doesn't see those benefts reflected in their salary. In any case, I can understand for tournaments to just allow official miniatures. That doesn't mean that's not classist. It IS classist. Like, ie, in videogame tournaments, the games and all the stuff needed are granted by the organization. Before banning people who can't afford GW minis, they should grant the possibility to anyone who request it to play with an army granted by the organization. Anything else it looks to me like "oh, you are poor??? we are really sorry but we don't allow poor people to play with us the chosen ones". Like c'mon, at some point in our lives, we or a friend of us has been in that situation of "I need to sell my armies" or "I just can't afford a single miniature". When I started to play, back in the early 2000s, my friends had to lend me their own armies to play, and I had to save money for 3 months to buy my first regiment. Thinking about modelism, for me, making your very own designed army will always have more merit than any bought army, no matter how well painted is.

[@Watcher8559]

MAYBE if they didn't Overcharge, and intentionally UNDER PRODUCE products people wouldn't 3d print.

[@Lodorn]

I'm not into marketing stuff, but that makes no sense to me. If there is a demand for 1.000.000 Indomitus boxes, why would GW ever intentionally only make 100k ? I get, that they have to gauge demand for limited editions like the new dominion box or indomitus. Can't have the 500k boxes sitting on shelves, so they rather make 900k than the 1M. But that's not intentionally underproducing to me.

[@rottsinpeace2016]

@@Lodorn thats assuming the cost to produce is a linear increase. it might be cheaper to allocate resources to a smaller run for a bigger profit then a longer run over time with a reduced profit

[@pavma7]

@@Lodorn it gets your brand hyped up like crazy thats why like the overprized sneakers selling in a very low amount.

[@MrBlakBunny]

try being Australian, i keep checking and its like a 20-30% markup (after converting numbers to AUD) for no reason

[@bionicgeekgrrl]

They're literally hitting a wall currently on production. They have a relatively small factory in Nottingham, England. That factory isn't all that big (and it also produces all the Forge World items too remember), so the number of sprues it can produce will be limited and they'll want to cover as much of the range as possible, so they'll have to make strategic estimates on how much of each item to produce. They've stated they deliberately made 3x as many of Indomitus as they did of the 8th edition starter boxes and expected that to be plenty, they were surprised apparently. Then you have to factor that the printed materials and boxes come from China, and that often has a 3months lead time, anything that screws with the shipping/delivery times can make a real mess. Another factor to consider, especially last year, is that for a while they couldn't produce anything as the lockdown rules in the UK prohibited it. Now that isn't to say I'm defending GW, even if it might sound like it. But rather there are factors that make some of the decisions understandable. There is potential for improvements in the future though, as they're due to bring a new factory online in the next year or so - likely delayed by the pandemic - and that should allow them to produce far more plastic than they currently do, how much that translates to available stock is another matter entirely of course.

[@SuperEagle112]

We have to recognize reality. I am friends with every GW in my drivable area. I cannot see their stores operating as they are 5-10 years from now. We are in the Stone Age of at home printing and there are already some amazing sculpts. It’s not going to go backwards.

[@SkyNinja759]

Exactly. GW is in a transitional phase. They will need to adapt to common home printers. Focus more on events, movies, t.v. shows, books, other merchandise, etc. Or they will turn into "video killed the radio star".

[@christianasch9176]

They should embrace it and sell schematics, special resins, paints, etc

[@robertlogan5354]

i watched a video earlier where the guy talked about working at a gw shop in england. he asked if he was supposed to chase down shoplifters. the manager picked up a box and asked the new guy which he thought cost gw more to manufacture, the box or the models. it was the box.

[@erikrungemadsen2081]

And that is why i buy Games Workshop stocks instead of models, they cost around the same.

[@brainpinker282]

Most epic comment brother^^

[@aspectnato8077]

Based

[@jamesofallthings3684]

That's dumb af. If you're not willing to pay for the product why the hell would you buy the stock. Everyone else is getting sick of it too.

[@cristiaolson7327]

My teenager: "Mom. I really want to try playing Warhammer. It looks so cool!" Me: "You best go get a job then. I'm not made out of money..."

[@Aconspiracyofravens1]

recasts

[@Saefogeo]

Warning: getting a job could not be enough to afford GW recent prices. You must actually be made of money to afford this hobby

[@RedeemedPaladin]

And it gonna cost arm and leg

[@NarlyLyfe]

I remember getting my first box set when i was like 10, My father came home with it after work, but I couldnt have it until I did the dishes, lol, R.I.P Dad, Semper Fi, Happy Memorial Day.

[@scepteredisle]

even with a job you can't afford it any more ha ha

[@Gozokukolat]

GW, "... ensuring that our worlds are synonymous with quality." Me, "GW, ensuring that their worlds are synonymous with outrageous prices."

[@debinoh4273]

That quality part got me especially hearing all the stories about forge world products

[@krisblunden1642]

@@debinoh4273 ahh but remember forge world is not technically G.W. (/s)

[@debinoh4273]

@@krisblunden1642 Ah I forgot, so basically they're blameless & can do no wrong! This is a big brained revelation right here.

[@ADHadh]

There's dozens of companies that have surpassed GW in quality years ago. Yet they still remain overpriced.

[@Gozokukolat]

@@ADHadh Not just overpriced! They also RAISED their prices during the lockdowns when most people were loosing their income.

[@morgantrevino4881]

Video aged even better, you can get 9K resolution printers for $300 or less these days. Blatantly copying models isn’t illegal if they’re not sold or profited from. All there is to it.

[@SMOK3SCR3EN]

When is it OK to 3d print Warhammer. Always. It's always OK.

[@RegrinderAlert]

@Stinko De mayo That’s a great excuse to justify greed and IP theft :-)

[@RegrinderAlert]

@Stinko De mayo It shouldn’t be a consideration who the “victim” is when going against the law. That’s self justice. Just boycott them instead of stealing.

[@a.i.m.f8567]

@@RegrinderAlert boycotting wont do anything, some hardcore fans spend thousands of dollars in minis because they have the money, but people who have less money will never be able to buy a decent army for a reasonable price. Its like the story of robinhood, do you think its bad to steal from the rich who have monopole and scam everyone ? They are the only one allowed to sell WH content, while the major thing that makes the community alive is the community itself. We dont ask them super low price, just to be reasonable.

[@RegrinderAlert]

@@a.i.m.f8567 Self-justice is always bad. Any excuse to steal is. Games Workshop is a shitty organisation indeed but that shouldn’t promote doing shitty things. It’s hypocritical.

[@a.i.m.f8567]

@@RegrinderAlert its not self justice, its common sense, for example : if you cant buy food, you either steal it or make it yourself. Playing warhammer is of course not as valuable at eating, but if you want something and there is cheaper option, you just take it. You know something is overpriced when consummers think about doing it themself. I mean, do you make anything for your own life ? If yes, then i must congrats you, i personally prefer buying rather than making it myself because im lazy, but the prices of GW are just too expensive. For example, a soldier mini is, by raw material, not worth much than 2$, yet they sell it for 10. The GW minis may be beautiful, thats not a decent price for such a low material value.

[@peadarmc91]

I feel, fuck GW. I wanted to get back into the hobby after 10 or so years only to find out Warhammer Fantasy was kaput and I can no longer buy a Bretonnian army for a fair price.

[@Tadraeve]

Check out kings of war by mantic games. They are a group of people who left GW to make there own company, because screw GW. They have awesome stuff for reasonable prices.

[@OPbob]

love the kaput part

[@finiteenergy7155]

I’d also recommend excellent miniatures empires of man. Probably the best 3D printed minis I’ve seen but they’re a smaller scale

[@Beregorn88]

*implying the original price was fair to begin with*

[@superchroma]

Well, yeah, but also the models were always too expensive for what they were. I suspect the tabletop game is going to peter out anyway, GW can't seem to make new versions fun anymore and the videogames are really taking off.

[@Killdust99]

I seem to remember their attempt at copyrighting “Space Marine” as a term was rejected for to how broad the term is, i.e. 1990’s Doom Guy was literally referred to as both a Doom Marine and a Space Marine

[@Heroes_of_Qalanor_RPG]

There are also a series of books called Space marine... quite old now and nothing to do with GW... as you say they failed on copyrighting the name.

[@shriekingskeleton]

It's ironic considering GW stole most of their content

[@Ultr4l0f]

TSR tried to copyright "dragon" fpr their Dungeons and Dragons. But they HAVE to. Its sounds stupid. But american copy right law demands that you show that you protect your IPs.

[@robert48044]

esp with a SpaceForce now

[@cynicat74]

@@Ultr4l0f That would add up if they tried to copyright a different part of their IP, that didn't happen to gather the most attention from fanart, fananimations, etc, and if they didn't shut down the Astartes short film.

[@CAMSLAYER13]

The problem of low quality models was never the old 2k printers fault, its getting good stl files in the first place

[@thomasace2547]

GWs prices alone increasing beyond reasonable inflation is the reason that pushed me into buying a few recast And now I’m even looking into a 3D Printer (I play DnD and enjoy painting fantasy models also not just WH) P.S. That Nid is sexy

[@3DPrintedTabletop]

Sounds like it would be a great hobby supplement for you then, Thomas! Have fun :)

[@mikezbr]

Honestly, 40K was the first thing I thought about when 3d printing came out.

[@draupnir7793]

Same here lol I only printed terrain and stuff and still feel like that’s okay since it was not licensed items made

[@Miscast]

"Yeah danny, do whatever you want with my footage"

[@3DPrintedTabletop]

That is actually a "counts-as" proxy of your footage, Trent. i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/010/606/orangutan_square.jpg

[@3DPrintedTabletop]

Also, please forgive me (eventually) (m;_ _)m

[@Zorpazorp]

Hahahahaha

[@JustThePizzaGuy]

@@3DPrintedTabletop damn

[@lawrencevaughn9149]

@@3DPrintedTabletop I know that you probably will never respond to this message but I had to ask. Where did you get the files for those amazing custodian. I would love to paint up a few of those they look great!

[@nunyabusiness4904]

GW needs to embrace 3D printing, physical kits you can buy in a store will still have their place for a few years at least, but imagine if GW moved to a subscription based model where you pay like $20 a month and get access to all the 3D files and rules. How many new people would be willing to try Warhammer or subscribe even when they aren’t actively doing anything with it.

[@fenrirsrage4609]

With the shit GW's pulling especially with Fan Animations I think they're inadvertently pushing people to try and find other ways to grab models besides officially.

[@DocHellfish]

Indeed! And just out of spite too! Scummy companies deserve to be treated as such.

[@Jazza]

I haven't be so immersed in a KZbin video in a long time... what the hell does that say about me? - I'M INTERESTED IN INTERESTING THINGS

[@3DPrintedTabletop]

Aaaah - THANK YOU JAZZA! I'm glad you enjoyed it! Looks like it's time to start making the sequel then... :D

[@Dripik]

Danny has found a wild Australian Jazza in the comments, Danny used Sequel... It was super effective!? p.s. If you see this Jazza, sneak in a cheaky imperial body guard pose next VR sketch

[@snazwonk2066]

yoo i didnt know you was into Warhammer.

[@uranus2970]

@@snazwonk2066 He has videos about it though

[@blackknight3830]

If GW would lower their overpriced merch by 50% people wouldn't want to "pirate" their stuff. Easy fix.

[@Spirit612]

Peytr Baelish - GW hasn't dropped their prices on any of their merch since they came into existence - one of the rare examples of a business that has only increased it's price while decreasing the number of models in a pack (I remember you used to be able to buy 10 SM in a box set, now you get 5). Their philosophy is simple, "If you want to play our game you MUST play with our minis, no exception - and that means you'll pay whatever we ask for them."

[@doombybbr]

Piracy is allways a supply issue.

[@ADHadh]

They sell to distributors for around 50% of retail price. Which is still a lot when you compare to, say, plastic historicals or Northstar kits.

[@Spirit612]

@Bao Thuy Yep, and they've always been expensive.

[@retardedfishfrogs1]

@@Spirit612 Risking getting political but this is just how capitalism works. That's how they keep raising their profits, if they lower prices it might seem like a failing move to the shareholders, aka the product isn't selling, so they might pull funding. It's the cursed cycle of needing constant growth.

[@deanwest2744]

I started 3D printing ALL of my minis after GW retconned female Custodes then acted like we were all so stupid we didn't notice. After, that insult, I refuse to give them any more money.

[@roundishwhale]

Really strange to hear anyone even partly defending GW. It is so questionable how they treat all their IPs, and by god they got enough money already. Print whatever you want.

[@teddyharvester]

There's two ways to look at this: 1) They need to legally protect their IP or risk just losing it to anyone with a 3D printer, no fault in that - they're a company, they need to secure their bottom line. 2) If they're worried about 3D printing, the solution is easy - give the consumer a better deal. There's no reason these models are as expensive apart from "because they know they can". Wasn't the whole computer-calculated spru arrangement meant to reduce costs and make things more efficient? None of that cost reduction and efficiency got transferred to the customer. That's a strike right there.

[@s.hoffmann5616]

My opinion/prediction: 3D-printing will just get bigger and bigger. It will soon become a necessity for a lot of people who are involved in hobbies that include miniatures. Games Workshop should just start selling the Models online, so they can be legally printed with a 3D-Printer at home. Yes, some minis may look shitty at first, but that's similar to people who paint their first minis. If Games Workshop doesn't jump into the marked of selling their Models for 3D-printing, some other wargame will probably take that marked and with 3D printers becoming cheaper, it could even be cheaper to get into that game, than buying expensive miniatures for Warhammer 40k.

[@phoenix4ever367]

Subscription service that gives HD versions of their models to print.

[@mikejonesnoreally]

No. They should continue to prosecute the thieves that make the prices higher for everyone *else!* Also? DUH! xD

[@sharkpyro93]

nothing is going to change, people really like the 40k lore and are completely addicted to the disgustingly overpriced plastic, every other wargame is completely irrelevant and no one plays them, gw have a de-facto monopoly on wargames, 3d printing or not, its not going to change any time soon, i saw a guy get kicked out of a gw store for having copy printed RULE BOOK, store owner basically said "buy the book or gtfo", it was baffling that the players agreed with him and were very hostile about it, that shit was depressing to see, people are really addicted to this stuff

[@reignick1133]

"C-level execs make a dollar, Workers make a dime, and that's why the worker poos on company time."

[@onegonearm]

I noticed going to lunch one day a bunch of guys stopping to wash up before punching out. Guy told me " I got my hands dirty for them so they can pay for me to clean them".

[@DirtPoorWargamer]

Close, but not quite: If a C-level exec makes a dollar, a worker makes about 1/3 of a cent. We wouldn't have the problems with income inequality we do today if it was the way you said.

[@tetsuoswrath]

Asian dad: C-level? Why you no A-level?!? :{

[@BardedWyrm]

@@DirtPoorWargamer That dime is made by Workers. The collective whole, not the representative individual.

[@DirtPoorWargamer]

@@BardedWyrm If that's the case, less ambiguous verbiage should have been used. If we interpret the use of a plural to mean collectively, then we should do the same with "C-level execs" (plural). In that case, it's still wrong and my original comment is still closer to the truth of it.

[@Xethl]

The thing is if you're 3D printing you probably weren't going to buy them to begin with, same with pirating a game - there's no losers

[@GoobertownHobbies]

I'm gonna print off a big beaky helm later today ;-)

[@3DPrintedTabletop]

It's time to accesorize your canoe, Brent...

[@leftwingdragon6235]

I love you doing the ooh in the song at 0:47

[@ironbomb6753]

Hey Brent, loved your pop up cameo in the vid. 😂👍🫀

[@Saphire_Throated_Carpenter_Ant]

Brent I hope you can forgive me.

[@mattnobody_cru1977]

I've wanted to do this and I ain't done it yet

[@Centuries_of_Nope]

This is Games Workshop were talking about. They'll come after you just for doodling a space marine in your notebook.

[@Psyxe1]

That name though

[@Grendelnz]

no they wont, but feel free to keep thinking that,

[@vageera218]

They won't... until you upload it to reddit.

[@tempestvenator9809]

Then why is there a crap ton of space marine fanart all over the internet? Yeah GW can be (and often is) scummy, but blowing things out of proportion helps no one.

[@lamogio7938]

@@tempestvenator9809 it's called a joke

[@milesdp1990]

Behold, my Brothers. These fools think they can stop the 3D Printing Revolution. Let us show them how futile their efforts are. RESIN FOR THE RESIN GOD!

[@TheMorrigan31]

It almost feels like GW pays people off to make such bullshit propaganda videos.

[@alecmiller5296]

SUPPORTS FOR THE SUPPORT THRONE

[@fakiirification]

SUPPORT MATERIAL FOR THE SUPPORT MATERIAL THRONE!

[@fakiirification]

@@alecmiller5296 LMFAO. i posted my comment before expanding the replys. Good job sir!

[@milesdp1990]

@Patrick Swan Thingiverse and MyMiniFactory have a huge amount of free files, but it your looking for high quality sculpts, then you'll have to spend some time searching. My wife and I have backed a few STL collections on Kickstarter (including Danny's Lost Dragons, and Lost Adventure). I haven't seen a single poor quality collection yet (not saying there aren't any, but that I haven't seen one). On a side note, check out the Nafarrate collection on Kickstarter. He's running one now, and we've backed several of his projects before. His collections are top notch. Not Warhammer 40k stuff though. It's fantasy stuff.

[@wilsonbowles2091]

Honestly I will 3d print what ever I want to play with. If the company was not money hungry and gouging prices we would have more players. The beerier of entry is way too high for the average person so they will never play. But now we can print a full army for under $100. I think they should sell stls. They would make a killing instantly

[@magusd123]

I’m pretty sure I’ve read somewhere that “you don’t need minis to play 40k, you just need something to represent the model”

[@RoKBottomStudios]

We used green army men for imperial guard units. Works like a charm.

[@Marinealver]

that got dropped after 3rd edition.

[@ge2719]

@@Marinealver what a coincidence. thats right around the time I left because they were clearly starting to use the brand to rip people off.

[@themeddite]

*gets the Halo megablocks models*

[@kyosai2472]

Hey Danny, thanks for showing off my glamorous Warlord! Great discussion, unbiased and informative. Loved it!

[@3DPrintedTabletop]

Glorious, glamorous, and wonderfully made! Thank you for sharing in the first place - and thanks for the comment, Kyosai!

[@kyosai2472]

@@3DPrintedTabletop Also great format, would love to see more of it. I can tell that you put way too much time into making this, but damn does it make for great content. Keep it up!

[@mickif]

That bling bling looks awesome! Do you have more stuff like this (like Insta or smth)?

[@eisenhorn5494]

Beautiful work

[@kyosai2472]

@@mickif Hey thanks! You can find me here: instagram.com/kyosaiii/

[@1vandread]

6:04 if someone put time into a 3d proxy army of unicorn marines, I’d totally play against them. That’s shows creativity and imagination but most importantly, passion. So long as the points are correct, roll those dice.

[@SilverSpoon_]

“it's illegal” they're toys, you do what you want. “but we should support our company” i support MY company that consists of me. that's capitalism.

[@MrMelonJelly]

Bad time to 3D print 40k models : never. Good time to 3D print 40k models : all the time. 3D print everything.

[@googiegress]

3d print more 3d printers!

[@aspectnato8077]

Honestly, that isn't too farfetched! ​@@googiegress

[@ScytheNoire]

Napster also helped the music industry post record profits, at the time. 3D printing, and the ability to print miniatures, has brought more people to GW products. GW is missing a huge market by not selling the model files, which would cost them zero in production costs, and would just add revenue. This is the music industry all over again. Eventually the music industry embraced MP3s, and now it's making them far more money, including streaming music. No production costs, and all profits.

[@lo-rez]

Good point, let's see if they do embrace it 🤔 I wonder how that would affect their business approach moving forwars.

[@alexandermahl3865]

you know, considering this video came up to me right after GW banned all fan works and showed what they really think of their customers, I don't think it's going to age all that well

[@aceofspadez131]

1:50 ok but that seems like an error on Warhammers business practice than any falt of ours. 3d models is a bleeding business ever since the first 3d printer was released to the general public d&d saw it coming and adjusted according, why has Warhammer not simply adjusted to the times rather then stay in a dying market I mean it's got to the point where there are children's pla printers available for like 70 bucks . They need to adjust there business and make 3d printing a bonus rather than a Detriment and they should have done that years ago.

[@tobefrank4040]

Never played Warhammer, and after watching this video, I never will. If the playerbase is honestly so incredibly toxic as to put down others for not spending thousands of dollars on stupid injection molded plastic, that's a playerbase I'd never want to be a part of.

[@ex1tium]

Yeah well... things don't just pop in to existence. Somebody has to design and market the products. I understand your point too and I definitely agree that prices sound bloated. There are so many ways to pull more revenue from other goods and services related to this hobby that I wonder why GW doesn't diversify or license .STL files for "tournament legal" use. I'm also not a player but I have 3d printed for years now.

[@GM-vt6is]

I mean..noone is forcing you. Though it does beg the question of whats the value of informing the rest of us, or what you are doing in this thread if you have no skin in the game. Im sure you are dying to know that I have decided never to eat a watermelon when skiing, for example .

[@bananatrain5047]

​@@GM-vt6is Don't you think turning away potential new fans does concern the hobby? They showed enough interest to step foot here, but after this experience you'll just have one more person saying the community is toxic. A community without fresh blood is destined to die of a gradual death as the old guard age. Not everyone has the time and money to be buying an entire army and spending 100s of hours painting before getting engrossed in it. But maybe if new people were treated with more respect, more people would be interested in joining the community and gradually build armies up to your standard.

[@GM-vt6is]

@@bananatrain5047 This person seems to have already made up their mind. The community isnt 'toxic ' and the word gets thrown around quite a lot these days anyway for the silliest of reasons. Truth is, people have changed- into crybabies. I remember going to a GW store to try a co-op game with a friend. Brought a very thematic, non cheesy list..got force -paired (dont ask) with a guy who fielded only space wolf dreads..naturally we got stomped. It deterred me from going into that particular store again, but not the hobby or from finding other players. I just changed my tactics, so to speak, as there are other places to find and vet players. My point being, even if you had a bad experience, you can always talk to people and overcome it, not judge tens of thousands of players based on superficial information. Warhammer especially is a great example of the idea that 'if you want to reap the benefits, you have to put in the time' - a logical but bad proposal in a generation grown on everything being easy, one-use, and disposable.

[@wallisonmedeiros309]

Print and distribute it as "warmallet 39k"

[@reclusiarchgrimaldus1269]

Battleaxe 4,000

[@mikkelangelokers9965]

fork 6000

[@megazaku1139]

Battlemace 4,000,000

[@printandplaygamer7134]

Battlemallet 4-TK

[@davidt3500]

Peacescythe 4M

[@tommyd2235]

I can’t verify this, I’m too lazy to google it, but I’ve heard that according to British law if GW doesn’t defend their IP they can lose it.

[@laviljoski6952]

yes thats true

[@BardedWyrm]

'Defend it or lose it' is, so far as I'm aware, broadly true of Trademark IP (but not copyright or patent) across much of the world, as roughly standardized by international treaty.

[@AngelFluff723]

Same for most. Once you let one person do it and get away with it, you give up the right to sue the next person

[@CorwinTheOneAndOnly]

I don't like the attitude brits take towards intellectual IPs, but when in reference to how the *internet* works, yes it's true, you gotta defend it before it's stolen from you. I just don't like a *government* saying those words.

[@willc3010]

Nah issue is that GW's overpriced crap(The Models Only) is not protected by copyright under UK law but by design rights. Design rights last a maximum of 25Years and after that anyone can produce the models after providing GW with a statement of intent. This is why GW never ever fight in a UK court and also why primaris marines exist.

[@jamess7140]

GW should just start selling STLs, partner with some hideously expensive 3D printing company and sell them in their stores along with some ‘official’ resins at silly profit margins. I know a lot of people who would pay for official STL files, print them on a recommended printer using resin bought from GW then paint them with paints bought from GW. Plus, if GW went down this route they could release products more often, cut back on manufacturing, warehousing, stock, retail costs, etc. If they tied into warhammer plus like a library of small cosmetic prints a single designer could knock out in a couple of hours like a helmet/shoulder pad/head/etc I’m convinced people would find a lot more value in warhammer plus.

[@Michaelkayslay]

The issue is, the incredible cost for GW models. It is that simple.

[@Requiem100500]

I'm surprised anyone still staning for GW at this point

[@cadet1ice]

There's plenty in the comments right now.

[@carlstanford7607]

And yet they are. A company will only change when customers make them. The attack on KZbin creators really made me think Fxxk em

[@chaotea2042]

"... ensuring that our worlds are synonymous with quality." Have they heard of Finecast? :D Or seen 90% of licenced games!

[@theblackbaron4119]

Yeah, exactly. We haven't gotten any good licensed games since DOW 1

[@Seelenschmiede]

@@theblackbaron4119 Nah, DoW2 was fine too. Not as good, but still not bad

[@ThatGuy-eu2vt]

@@theblackbaron4119 tww1 and 2 are good games

[@acrow5]

@@ThatGuy-eu2vt Total War Warhammer 3 is looking to be pretty lit too.

[@MatthewWathen]

I will never not print all the things, which are available for free on a certain social network that shares its name with an old message-sending service that utilized Morse code.

[@hepotitus]

As a player of TTRPGs I like getting into new worlds and trying new things. I've always been interested in Warhammer 40k but they make it so unappetizing to someone like myself. I don't want to spend several hundred dollars to START playing the basics with 1 small army when I might not even enjoy the hobby, or have the community around me to continue it.

[@XYZdude00]

I'm literally painting gw proxies as I watch this

[@twohandsdk]

i feel like 3d printing is essentially STCs from 40k :P

[@alexsledge]

Perfectly acceptable. People wouldn't be doing it if they didn't have to. There is no situation where it's wrong to 3D print your own models and use them. Don't try and law shame people for non-evil actions.

[@Hurricanelive]

Yeah, we never saw savings promised by digital design, moving away from metal and fine cast just like digital music and gaming. We got all the hype and promises, but it was never delivered, prices rose and priced many of us out of gaming and they continue to rise when income decreases. I encourage those who can brrrrrr that they do brrrrrrr

[@elkpants1280]

This is true for literally everything these days. People tell you things will get better, and it never does.

[@Illiadofmalorne]

Prices aside if GW could just keep stuff in stock I wouldn't 3D print as much stuff.

[@ScooterinAB]

Pretty much. I'm looking at printing a variety of conversion bits because GW doesn't sell them and 3rd party sellers don't stock anything anymore. If they wouldn't leave money on the table...

[@Saphire_Throated_Carpenter_Ant]

Exactly some models are gone. I can't get an incarnate elemental of beasts for any price and they say the molds got damaged.

[@ScooterinAB]

@@Saphire_Throated_Carpenter_Ant It's very likely the molds did get damaged. But that's just more reason for GW to embrace 3d printing for special order products that aren't worth remaking expensive molds for. That's money they could be making.

[@tonyennis1787]

For real change to occur, GW needs competition. It needs to be a real company, producing good models at good prices, have a good backstory, and for the love of god, a good ruleset. Who's up to the challenge?

[@rakino4418]

Its the same issue with DnD and RPGs. There are tonnes of better options but to people starting out DND is synonymous with roleplaying. Likewise Warhammer IS tabletop gaming to most people.

[@WargamerNed]

I've seen some of the Patreons and I think the change is coming. We just need to streamline the process and maybe make 3d printing a wee bit cheaper still.

[@slimjim7411]

There are plenty of solid games out there that are much cheaper than 40k with good rules. What everyone wants however is a knockoff of the grimdorkness of 40k. They have the setting that angsty teenagers drool over. Otherwise you can play Mantic King's of War or Firefight and just enjoy a much better game. Plus they don't care if you 3D print.

[@MR.E963]

GW has become the Disney corporation of table top gaming. They bleed the few ppl actually interested in table top gaming dry and then monopolize the industry with they’re less than revolutionary model manufacturing methods ( honestly have these ppl even seen a Gundam model for comparison?). So realistically they deserve to go down at this point. They could very easily have been ahead of the curve simply by selling the scan files of they’re models so that creators can continue to push the Warhammer community forward like we did with the game boards before they even sold scenery. Also how much more affordable would the models be if you eliminated the overhead for they’re bullshit Disney style Warhammer world. Realistically this a problem who’s only solution is the innovation of others in replacing Warhammer altogether with other table top narratives that are more accessible to everyone, and provide other more cost effective options to simply play the stupid and already unnecessarily complicated game.

[@SquidmarMiniatures]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts ❤️ that outro appearance though haha

[@3DPrintedTabletop]

Only possible thanks to folks like you sharing your thoughts on proxies and 3D printing beforehand, Emil. Gotta give credit here: The outro was Mitch's idea :D

[@Terrainosaur]

Thanks! 😂

[@godwishyoutube]

Master is here

[@godwishyoutube]

@@bikinibandit2398 they are friends you know that right?

[@StolenDog]

3D printing "Oldhammer" as he says does benefit GW and local hobby shops. When I'm rattling off a few Epic minis for nostalgia sake, I'm still buying paints, bases, flock and various other bits as required.

[@gumbercules3925]

its amazing that gw doesnt realize that the IP is the gold mine, not the models. penny wise and pound foolish. if the focused on carefully producing the IP with the right gaming and animation/film studios instead of whoring it out theyd be printing money. they should be selling licenses to print models for cheap and growing the fan base. totally brain dead leadership at gw. honestly the best outcome would probably for gw to go belly up and a more intelligently run company buy up the ip.

[@zzxp1]

Fucking this, just look what CA made with fantasy the less popular IP, if they were smart they would had paired the popularity of TWW with a campaign to bring back the game with easy ways to access miniatures and other tutorials to engage people with the hobby. 40K would fucking kill it, it could even take the place of Star Wars in the mainstream media if GW weren't driven by old farts.

[@robert48044]

the profit chart reminds me of the current arguments the railroad industry is trying to take. Profits and dividends are up so much the rail roads are buying their stock back while screaming they need less workers working more.

[@ManuelDornbusch]

I still feel, like GW should acknowledge the time and go for "licensed" printing. Where you can buy the print file from GW and if you want the models to register to be playable in events, you pay a small additional part per print. If somebody is adept with 3D software, they can even repose, or add details before print And they could "release" Oldhammer

[@mekhane.broken9678]

GW:you want this license to print our models? That'll be 500 dollars please.

[@johnpmchappell]

@@mekhane.broken9678 Sadly, with current thinking, aye.

[@cams.2083]

I have boycotted GW for years now partially for their overpriced and shady business practices but also because there are so many other company's that Disserve love. I'm just going to say it: the same people who are concerned about GW price hikes and business practices are the same people who still buy GW and bitch about it.

[@shadowcat3163]

Did the same about 20 years ago on 40K and after BFG/Warmaster/Necromunda/Mordheim abandonment never bought another thing from them.

[@ThatModernGamer95]

Same here. Stopped buying WH 40K as it was getting too expensive. Totally agree with GW’s shady sales practice

[@EviltheNub]

I first got into in in 1999/2000 and gave up on it a few years later. It seemed every time I checked the price on everything went up like 10%

[@TheMorrigan31]

Same I got into it in 2018 and after a year or so decided to never buy GW models again. I would love to see them finally lose their spot as the go to tabletop game, there are so many better games and model lines it's a shame that all anyone ever care about is warhammer

[@Blottingpaper]

If gw is a manufacturer then they're outdated, inefficient, overpriced and deserve to go out of business with their current model.

[@guillaumemichallat307]

the business model is totally outdated, exact.

[@suitsandsteaks]

Well said. Never thought of it that way, but you're 100% on point with that.

[@peters6345]

GW? the same people who are still releasing codexes only in book format during a pandemic? can't imagine them being outdated :D

[@newguy8288]

@Andrew McGuire It’s more like is not as efficient as it could be, as it refuses better long term business practices for as much profit as possible; thus the markup in the price and under-producing the product (Rip for Australian fans, they get burned every time with this)

[@bobdole8830]

Copyright is theft from the human noosphere. Throughout the entirity of human history copying and adapting art, concepts, music, ideas, technology etc. has always been how we progressed as a species. Paywalling that knowledge to make rich individuals and corporations even richter, is crippling the progress of humanity. When I wrote my thesis for example, even with paid access to a bunch of plattforms by my University and the University library, the books and sources I needed would have cost literally thousands of dollars. As long as I dont reprint currently sold miniatures by GW 1:1 I see no moral obligation or issue in printing miniatures. I personally hate Resin and think it is the most inferior hobby material in ANY regards, even the expensive ABS stuff, so I would never print miniatures myself, but I can perfectly relate to someone not wanting to spend 50$ on a box with 3 plastic miniatures. Most people that defend not 3D printing models either have to cope with their bad decision making and horrible spending habits or they drank the cool aid and think copyright somehow protects small time creators, when in reality it exclusively benefits big corporations. Theres so many examples of Big companies 1:1 stealing art from small time artists with them having no chance to to anything against it, lest they be drowned in paper work by 20 lawyers and spend their entire lifetime savings to fight for their rights. Corporations on the other hand abuse copyright to silence critique and monetise everything as much as possible.

[@sirioth]

Dude, this format is amazing, I fugging love it man.

[@3DPrintedTabletop]

Thanks man! I really enjoy Last Week Tonight, and felt this was the perfect topic to explore in that style (along with my own twist of course).

[@Lightscribe225]

I don't want to buy an entire box set when all I want is the lascannon for a kitbash

[@conorflinn600]

That used to actually be an option.

[@BrotherBarakiel996]

Buying bits in bulk of ebay really helps. But im surr there is cheaper alternatives as well.

[@Zuginator]

When they killed Bitz Orders that felt like the end of everything I loved about Warhammer modelling!

[@kalosprismatic]

Those miniatures at the end are just absolutely *chef's kiss*

[@danielrafferty4108]

This is a question coming from a newb here. Was heavy into warhammer as a kid and just getting back into it now as an adult almost twenty years later. After buying a starter pack for painting, all my paints for various colour schemes and some orks I've ran into the dilemma of all that being the same price as a affordable resin printer. I am considering buying the resin printer for printing for any nerdy stuff I want to paint, including warhammer. I am primarily into painting right now, but once I get into the swing of that again I will definetely want to get into playing. While I will probably be buying official models for a proper army, this will take forever. What if I printed proxies for a private army to find a club and play there, am I going to be derided for doing so or can I expect other players to do the same when it isn't for an official tournament?