Illegitimate? SCOTUS Rules on Affirmative Action, Student Loans, and LGBT rights | The Next Level

[@fallond3165]

I think you’re majorly missing the point of why people are so upset about the court. It’s HOW they’re doing it. They’re ignoring the law to take the cases they want to *take away* rights, not expand on them. That is illegitimate. That is terrifying. And if we start normalizing and making excuses and praising them for the ONE insane case they shouldn’t have even taken in the first place is dangerous.

[@pjpredhomme7699]

Don't know where you got on this train but - since the 1970s they have said they were going to do this - and every time it got closer - people were told - calm down -they don't mean it literally. I have been hearing that right up until this court came to be - and now we have this - for the next few generations - it is a travesty

[@jamesp3902]

​@@pjpredhomme7699 Correct. In 1978 and 2003 the court ruled specific types of affirmative action where illegal. For one of the two cases in 2003 O'Connor wrote "Court expects that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the interest approved today." Harvard was asked to prove that racial preferences for the purposes of diversity was necessary. Per the Court, Harvard was unable to do so.

[@imirim]

Especially when they only choose to hear 1 to 2 percent of cases submitted to them. The fact patterns presented should be vetted before they render a decision. This case continues to damage the courts credibility

[@actualkarenokboomer3158]

In high school in Houston, in the 60s, I could not take drafting because I don't have a penis. I could not apply for jobs I really wanted and was qualified for because I did not have a penis. They don't even want a 5 year old to be allowed to say anything about their family because they have same sex parents. I had a dear friend in Oklahoma and he and his husband just got to adopted the foster child they have had since her birth. If they stay in Oklahoma how will it be if she can't talk about her family.

[@briore3856]

Can you turn Tim's reaction to 303 Creative into a clip? It was just so well-spoken on every level. Love you guys! And great show as always.

[@lucibjlb]

Tim Miller is spot on about the Gay website. It's more lunch counter than anything else. She specifically targeted gay people. She might as well as targeted black people or bi-racial couples.

[@priestbyname]

Of course the people want a two hour show, JVL!

[@nancybeaman5528]

Sorry Sarah, not a legitimate court when McConnell stole a seat.

[@henrynewton8809]

He stole 2 seats!

[@karlerikpaulsson88]

exactly, Sarah doesn't understand how corrupt what Mcconnell did was. Destroying the senate wasn't enough for Moscow Mitch, he had to utterly corrupt the Judiciary as well. its just a shame there no hell for him to burn in like he deserves.

[@monsternotgangster6984]

@@henrynewton8809No he stole 1, because lets say he stole the Merrick Garland seat for Gorsuch, then he was correct to do the Amy Coney Barret because his president was still in office. Let’s say he stole the Amy Coney Barret Seat, then he was correct to deny Garland for Gorsuch, cause he stole the Amy Coney Barret seat when people had already started voting.

[@actualkarenokboomer3158]

She doesn't sound southern and is obviously not black or brown. I graduated high school in 1964 in Houston, TX and never went to school with a black person and I was not wealthy by a long shot. The integrated the workforce at Southwestern Bell in 1967 and there was tremendous backlash. There were still signs all over Texas that said "NO N-----S, NO MEXICANS, NO DOGS." Just wait, just like now it will be whites who will still question a person of color being admitted when they weren't.

[@blaisemacpherson7637]

You know this is adjacent to the point I've been jumping up and down on since the aa decision came down. Most unpretentious universities are not particularly restrictive on admissions. The aa thing matters for Harvard and Yale but pretty much everyone who applies to the university of Idaho in May is enrolled in classes in the fall. And it's a good school where you can get a good education and get a good job as a chemical engineer at a paper mill or a GIS tech for the county. The issue is that UI doesn't graduate a lot of futures circuit court judges or high power lobbyist. We've been having the wrong conversation. It's not about what is fair to black students or white students who do it don't get an acceptance letter in the mail. The world is not that zero sum they can all go to school and get a good education. The issue is whether the rest of us deserve to live in a world where all the important decisions in our lives are made by white men or by a more diverse group of people.

[@SakuraFoxFurry]

Blacks are being given handouts based on color.

[@margaretmcnamee6411]

I just remember when black people were refused service throughout the south. This ruling appears to be a step backwards.

[@actualkarenokboomer3158]

She blames the gay couple for the masterpiece cake case. Does she also blame Blacks for picking counters to sit at or buses to ride on because she thinks there were equal transportation just for blacks. And of course when they start denying service to blacks or browns at restaurants or hotels she will just say, go somewhere else.

[@serraangel7465]

They didnt see the hate in the 1st place. Love tim but these are the ppl who helped ppl like Lindsay get elected. These are the ppl helped lay the foundation of our destruction.

[@shopriskybeads]

Please don’t shy away from long shows ever!! They are awesome!

[@robinstevenson6690]

I really liked this show! It was great the way each one of you contributed something, and it felt very balanced. Keep it up, guys!

[@peggyallan2142]

I’m a progressive who likes this show & the bulwark because your political insights & opinions are reasonable, but not obviously not where I live. I was disappointed to hear Sarah claim the court is legitimate. Nothing could be further off the mark; considering the clear corruption of at least 2 powerful justices & maybe more & the federalist society control & influence of this far right organization on Scotus & the way cases are shoved up before this court (dark money).

[@THATBOISHAD]

She's still ideologically brainwashed by the conservative mindset and they are coming for her literal life. I mean the website case was bonkers because there was no damages and the defendant wasn't even gay. There was no merit or damages.

[@actualkarenokboomer3158]

WE ARE ON OUR WAY BACK TO THE 60S FASTER THAN IT TOOK TO GET WHERE WE WERE. How about legacy admissions. People died trying to get people to a Black hospital in the south. I live in Portland, OR and the last time I went to the hospital and it was a 7th day Adventist Hospital and the nurse was obviously a tans man.

[@FredericWright-h3y]

The best (and only)podcast to which I listen. The have terrific guests some weeks, but the three regulars are always top-notch. Fun and informative.

[@sofiablue2007]

A "Pyrrhic victory," meaning a victory that comes at such costs it's not worth doing.

[@daylemunn1334]

There are some Republicans who are crippled by student loan debt. What can the candidates offer that is acceptable?

[@karinaz8756]

They are brainwashed to vote against their own best interest. They don’t care as long as someone they hate has it worse. The biggest recipients of loan forgiveness is TEACHERS.

[@robynnordstrom7799]

Clarence Thomas has had a chip on his shoulder about AA his entire career, which makes it hard for me to believe he could be trusted to objectively “interpret the law” on the subject.

[@paulkohl9202]

Excellent talk. Thank you. Will’s Lindsey pod cast was illuminating

[@comment_section4766]

This is another HUGE blind spot. The WORLD does not have a shortage of doctors. The US does. Because "free market" ideology allows professional organizations to limit supply. This is built into the world view you advocate.

[@aaronwinegar9724]

Lots of countries have shortages of doctors. We even have organizations of doctors in the US that go out to serve in underserved parts of the world for humanitarian reasons. 'Tis but a shame that those underserved parts of the world also includes places like the UK.

[@pjpredhomme7699]

Rural areas of USA has doctor shortages . I should also say there are many hospitals - medical centers that have been purchased by hedge funds - where the value in the hospitals are carved up and sold off for the maximum shareholder value - and the community suffers for it - this is all crazy our institutions need to stand up for themselves and protect themselves for the good of society

[@arimathean4128]

Huh? When professional organizations limit supply, that is collusion. It is the opposite of a free market. Such collusion does not usually work in the long term unless it is aided and abetted by the government.

[@aguynamednick]

I think affirmative action is like taking an Advil when you have a tire iron sticking out of your head instead of going to the doctor and getting it removed. We have to solve the root problem instead of trying to level things off on the back end. And after all this it will be pretty hysterical when in 20 years all the racists start freaking out because there are only Asian doctors.

[@jackieruth2055]

I came to TNL podcast thru The Bulwark and just wanting more Tim Miller in my life. And thus is now my favorite podcast. I'm a moderate Dem and I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you all say. But even the things I don't 100% agree with, I appreciate the thoughtful, funny and articulate way you express them. You've made me a big big fan! Keep doing what you're doing!

[@brianhotaling5849]

If the Gay Website ruling is based on a fraud, is it legal?

[@James-hd4ms]

How are gays fraudulent?

[@THATBOISHAD]

Right I thought there needs to be merit and damages.

[@bethb5915]

Harry Litman says this will be objected to or protested before the court ( I don't know the legal term), but that it won't change the outcome.

[@verityviolet]

Scarcity leads to high wages. THATS why medical schools limit numbers.

[@RANDALLBRIGGS]

Maybe it has to do with the finite number of doctors who are willing to teach in medical school rather than practice medicine.

[@Enkidoo]

​@@RANDALLBRIGGSMaybe that's a convenient excuse.

[@serraangel7465]

If you are talking about medical school using affirmative action think of how black women die during and after birth, because the doctor are taught racism. So hear me out, black doctor have to score higher to be average because racism is baked in to the teaching. America medical system has been proven to be racist. Black doctors literally save more lives because their black patients dont die as much. So because of racism we wouldnt have the best doctor because the best is defined by the standard and the standard is white.

[@verityviolet]

@@RANDALLBRIGGS nah doctors make more money through scarcity.

[@janeeraxi]

Its unfortunate you guys didn’t address legacy at all as a point in the affirmative action case. The idea that schools are choosing between 1 Asian student and 1 Black med student for the same spot is the problem. Maybe both the Black and Asian student should get in and one of the white students is actually a less qualified candidate. Not even mentioned as a possibility smh

[@missmia3920]

💯 thank you for pointing it out

[@SecondPlaceInTheGeneticLottery]

The reason you don't want to allow bigots to refuse service to gays or black people or whatever vulnerable group, is what happens if every business in your town or country or state functions the same way? It's ridiculous to think that you are interfering with/forcing a web site designer's speech and making them support gay marriage or similar. You're just creating a web site, not marching in a pride parade. Very similar to serving them at your lunch counter, if they're wearing a gay pride button.

[@Newtperc]

Bad take by Sarah on affirmative action. University of Michigan had a similar state law struck down in 2006. The black population at U of M dropped from 9% to 5%.

[@arimathean4128]

It was 2003, not 2006. But O'Connor's ruling said that affirmative action is permissible only on a temporary basis, not as a permanent policy. It effectively included a sunset on affirmative action.

[@missmia3920]

Agree 💯 there will be unintended consequences. Which is the goal of the rollback honestly

[@antzleah5413]

Intelligent people making sense. Felt like five minutes. Thank you!

[@theburnhams2925]

23:20 "cake bakers an' website makers..." Sara cuts to the quick!

[@badgernation9332]

I, too, came of age to Newsies. My God. Christian Bale singing "Sante Fe" on horseback? *chef's kiss*

[@comment_section4766]

For the millionth time. Commerce is not speech.

[@garybowler5946]

I think DeSantis is just forming his WWE persona.

[@ruthwindham1554]

Let's not forget that Christian Bale also played the main character of Todd Haynes' under-appreciated film "Velvet Goldmine," which celebrates glam rock and freedom of gender/sexual expression.

[@actualkarenokboomer3158]

Right now with all of the restrictions for what you can and can't do in the south with hospitals and schools it is a wonder there are any teachers and nurses. My first OB-GYNs were always men. How would it be if you demand a certain race.

[@michaelmerline4582]

Schools should bake cakes with acceptance letters in them. Let the MAGA tears flow.

[@Grimith]

I'm here for JVL's energy at 57:50 and 1:01:40 .

[@robinstevenson6690]

Love what Tim had to say about Ole Miss.

[@blaisemacpherson7637]

Colorado boy appreciates casa Bonita reference. Good memories in black Bart's cave

[@lucibjlb]

Sarah is wrong about the legitimacy of the court. It's broken, for no other reason than Alito and Thomas. They are incredibly political and partisan. All of their opinions are completely predictable. I agree about Kavanaugh. He's legit. I still haven't decided about Coney Barrett. Finally, John Roberts is weak. At a minimum, there needs to be ethical standards established. He doesn't want to push it because he's afraid of pushback from the other justices, mainly from the unethical ones. As far as the court's opinion on the power of state legislators deciding elections, I'm unimpressed. It should have been 8-1. It wasn't. Regardless, the ruling was still correct. But it had to be. Had they ruled the opposite way, all hell would have broken out, and the Democrats would run on it, sweeping 2024.

[@missmia3920]

Totally agree.

[@ht6743]

Can’t believe they settled on “everything the SC decided was fine, nothing to see here, folks!” Jesus, what wretched takes. This conservative bench is dismantling precedents left and right with cases that don’t even have proper standing! It’s gross that none of that was hinted at here.

[@chichitex1252]

Great show!❤

[@kimcowling3296]

To Tim’s point about affirmative action being banned … this ruling only applies to schools taking federal funds.

[@direwolf6234]

the 'debate' over tranz is like discussing a benign bacteria in the flea, that's biting the tail, that's wagging the dog ... also if you want cell power in the woods get either a small 'crank' flashlight or a small solar charger ..

[@elainedaprano9130]

"Did George Soros blow it up?" 😂😂😂😂

[@brigittescott7826]

Re: independent state legislature case: Alito, Thomas and Gorsich. With the ethical questions about Alito and Thomas, I believe Gorsich provided them cover by voting with them.

[@karlerikpaulsson88]

not much cover, just made himself look like just another deranged and corrupt POS along side them

[@arimathean4128]

Gorsuch only joined them in saying that, since the case had become moot, the court should not have ruled on it. (The NC court had already reversed the ruling that was being appealed.) He did NOT join them in defending the independent state legislature doctrine.

[@lizannewhitlow1085]

Hate mail? My pen is ready. 🖋️ Sorry, just kidding! 😂

[@brigittescott7826]

Gorsich gave Thomas and Alito cover considering the question of their ethics.

[@eisenhauerd]

pre enforcement challenges are when you make up the facts. awesome that these three lawyers were here to explain this to me.

[@cmt635]

I decided to wait for 24 hours before I watched...let you know what i think after listening....😊

[@sanrom77]

Love when you guys are just riffing...on topic and go off a bit...that makes this podcast feel like a real conversation one would have....not just linear and not just bullet point subject... next

[@denisecrawford5289]

Good show, long show👍

[@mjinba07]

The website case is [oops, edit: ISN'T] just about the issues in that case. I'm no lawyer but it seems to me that while the ruling might be vulnerable to appeal, wouldn't that initial decision always be there on the books? We've seen this fascistic movement build incrementally and strategically over time, and we've seen bald faced lies gobbled up by angry, frightened people who've been all ginned up to hate and target a vulnerable group. Look at who funded this woman's lawyers. The case might not be very powerful by itself but a pile of rubble can be used to build a wall.

[@lucibjlb]

Why don't we just say it? Rhonda Santis is closeted. I remember knowing people in my life who were always talking and making fun of being homosexual. Guess what? They later came out as being gay. So, Rhonda is either gay or trans. Maybe he's both. I don't know. But the dude is screwed up because his life is a fraud.

[@elainedaprano9130]

The newsphere is having an absolute hootfest over the DESantis video, and I'm grinnin'😁

[@imirim]

Sara is right. I don't like her agreement with SCOTUS but frankly it isn't surprising

[@heartofodds]

Legislating envy and burdensome exploitation from the bench. LAME

[@cmt635]

Halfway through the video and....just not feeling like Sara and Tim....really get "it"....about diversity and how people who actually work on a day to day basis with a diverse group of people for over40 years.... I work in hospitality....I am 💯 positive they don't and did not live in any diverse community or work in an industry that has a diverse work environment in their younger years and may not have even acknowledged in their younger years that there were diverse communities... that people had built before they were living a diverse life....and btw Sara....McConnell stole a seat for Gorsuch....by changing the rules and then changed it again for Barrett...completely disappointed with this but I will keep listening to your opinions.. I'm over 60 used to be Republican until Newt Gingrich..I knew he was a bullshit artist...have you seen WKRP...? The tv series ? Newt Gingrich is Herb Tarlick...the scummy sales rep...

[@kramnosenhoj]

What’s the name of the song that opens and closes the episode?

[@nextlevelpodcast]

Take Me To Your Leader by Acid Tongue

[@maryoberschlake1988]

FYI-Cuba made a commitment to educating physicians. Think about it….

[@erinc9672]

For the record, I ALSO could have done another hour!

[@kathyobrien1063]

LONGER!

[@victoriawright451]

I'd been waiting for the homophobic DeSantis ad roast and now I feel better ❤

[@rationalpear1816]

Sarah: if someone doesn’t want to make a burger for my black ass at the diner, i will just go to a different diner. What the big deal?

[@nyccheckin]

Don't forget to bring your kids so they can be shamed.

[@annemarr8096]

❤❤❤

[@lizannewhitlow1085]

Tim Miller, good thing you didn’t get the crud!

[@coolpapab]

I love the show, but Sarah is wrong about affirmative action. You are not lowering the standard with affirmative action. Affirmative Action gives a fair opportunity to all minorities who MEETS the academic standard for admission to universities who in most cases would be overlooked.

[@sbc2123]

Sooo….with Sarah on the OBGYN

[@travcat756]

These people are my bible, and I feel like I'm in very good hands

[@robinstevenson6690]

I loved the remark about "the white boots"... is this trans? Brilliant!

[@TimesFM4532]

Strange comparing yourself to drug dealing gangster and serial killer

[@jkotsche7035]

What about gay atheists, should they not be served?

[@talonyoung6160]

I agree with Sarah and Tim quite a bit about the court opinions.

[@vrts800]

I like Sarah’s AA take.

[@Reldas]

I can tell The Bulwark audience is very white. One note, when talking about issues like affirmative action, you should have someone on who will actually be affected by it.