Imagining Decolonisation - and Why It's Good For Everyone with Tina Ngata - HF Podcast #7

[@happenfilms]

Hey everyone! We hope you enjoy this episode. To those of you who are giving the video a thumbs down before listening to the interview, we’d like to invite you to leave a comment about what it is about decolonisation that you have an issue with. The point of these podcasts is to share ideas and spark discussion so we’d like to see that dialogue happening :) Also we're not deleting comments to stop discussion! As you can see there are a wide range of opinions being expressed in the comments. We've only removed a couple that were offensive. So please continue the discussion, we're not here to stop that!

[@KatherineNoir]

Doesn't really seem like you want a discussion. Just guilt-trip people. By now you must see that this is not the type of content that people want from you, but it's great that you did this interview anyway. Be transparent, let people decide for themselves whether they want to support this content or not. If you want to be more political, you are free to do so. And people are free to dislike, even without watching. The title gives away the thought process that many find narrow-minded. Don't demand a dialogue in the comment section if you are unable to take part in it. Good luck and farewell!

[@mikeaburton]

After reading so many negative comments I just wanted to send you some much needed Aroha. Stay strong, the conversation is important even when people struggle and thrash out they come from a place of ignorance and fear and your light will always be stronger. xx

[@happenfilms]

@@KatherineNoir Hi there, we only removed a couple of offensive comments. There are a range of different views being expressed in the comments, we're not here to stop that discussion from happening.

[@missdemeanor3524]

Hmmm, what don't I like about "Decolonization"? Well, for starters, it's impossible. What you're really asking for is segregation. I am against segregation, and the racism that it promotes. Every group of human beings since the beginning of time has colonized land. Every single human being alive is decended from colonizers. Yet you seem to want to favor one group of colonizers over another for no ligical reason. For instance, in the US, American Indians all claim that they were here first. Therefore they are the rightful owners of this land. Never mind that the Ancient Egyptians mapped the Missisippi River and even installed navigation markers along it. More recently - during the Iron Age - Vikings came here and lived. THEN the ancestors of the American Indians colonized the land. They decimated the forests by burning them down and changed the landscape from unbroken forest to massive swathes of prairie so that they could hunt more effectively. Then the Europeans came and fought the Indians for the land. They are only the most recent colonizers in an unbroken line of colonization. So where do you want to start? Which group needs to pack it up and GTFO? Why did you choose that particular group over another one? So this is why I don't like the idea of decolonization.

[@happenfilms]

@@mikeaburton Thanks so much for the aroha!

[@april-tui3524]

This is really fascinating, thank you so much.

[@akcorbel]

taking down opposing options only strengthens those views who oppose your own HF, I believe in open discussions not censorship. If what you are saying is correct then you need to be able to defend them not silence other views. Love your films and documentaries keep up the good work but please stop blocking people who disagree with you.

[@happenfilms]

Hi there, we only removed a couple of comments that were offensive, not because they expressed a different view. As you can see there's a range of views being expressed in the comments. Our aim isn't to stop discussion!

[@akcorbel]

@@happenfilms I agree there are some rude people out there who ruin open discussion but I've been finding out over the years that "progressives or liberals" tend to think that if what they hear offends them it must be untrue. I will use an example, telling someone fat or obese is rude and offensive but if its true it does not mean its wrong. Thnx for responding.

[@missdemeanor3524]

@@akcorbel yes, this group thinks that hurting feelings is illegal and they see nothing wrong with declaring themselves the arbiters of who is allowed to speak and who is not. One of the comments this channel took down due to "rudeness" was well thought out and informative imo. This particular comment inspired me to present my opinions in a similarly polished manner. I'm floored they considered this individual "rude". Apparently, rude is an intelligent, direct viewpoint that disagrees with their narrative. They fail to realize that freedom of speech exists to protect rude and hate speech as well as rude and hated individuals... #facts don't care about your feelings

[@RichardFalkner]

@@missdemeanor3524 that's interesting... What were the core arguments of the post that got removed? I'd be interested to hear them, and if they are just ideas they presumably won't be removed

[@4evasugarfree]

Comments taken down just had different opinions. Not offensive.

[@4evasugarfree]

Comments are being taken down. Why?

[@gewreid5946]

Yeah, it's a shame. There was a comment taken down that i tried replying to about it being hypocritical to be talking about decolonialisation when you are from a colonial nation. I think it might have been quite beneficial to be able to argue against that point and have it visible for others.

[@Elaine38003]

@@gewreid5946 I just tried to reply to your comment and I saw that your comment was gone my comments still up isn't it? I also try to give you a link to look into the white tribes and they're plight

[@4evasugarfree]

This has made me unsubscribe. Why cant we see other opinions if nothing to hide.🙏

[@gewreid5946]

@@Elaine38003 Well, you can reply to my comment here if you are interested in both of us expanding our understanding and learning something new, rather than convincing me you are right and i am wrong. ;)

[@Elaine38003]

@@gewreid5946 I'm not trying to say your point is wrong but I am serious that there is a discrimination problem but I don't know about having a conversation because just a few seconds ago this comment disappeared and then reappeared 😬😖

[@tiffanydalley9673]

Amazing Tina ngata. thank-you to this platform for giving our people a space to talk about these issues that effect all New Zealanders and not just Maori unity is key

[@beepikia]

Agree and tautoko your awesome work. Thank you so much I see these entitled people now throwing round our concepts and continuing business as usual. So nice to see you are gaining ground in this space let's hope our decision makers ears are open. I still see some troubling attitudes on our councils unfortunately.

[@Tyronethebone]

I honestly never understood the idea of Neo colonialism, I’m native in Washington state and a conservative and I saw this concept as a Marxist ideological weapon. In our country it is a tool of colonialism but explained in this way with micro plastic as the backdrop rather than “social good“ , it starts to make sense in another way. It’s funny how things change. At one time the identity of native peoples was the tool used to initiate the mechanism that acquired this land that is now polluted…..our land. Now the indigenous people can use this identity to leverage the power to change things for a better future. I’m watching and listening

[@monkeymanwasd1239]

There are 5.2 million American Indians and Alaska Natives making up approximately 2 percent of the U.S. population. There are 14 states with more than 100,000 American Indian or Alaska Native residents. wars existed before folks from the old world came, native americans lost and i doubt there are any pure native americans left

[@ex_orpheus1166]

Neocolonialism is defined as the control of resources and peoples though economic means rather than through out imperialist and militant means. An example of this is the banana republics of Latin America, who were economically dominated/subjugated by the American fruit companies Dole and United Fruit Company and politically facilitated violent right wing authoritarian regimes that favoured American interests. Another example is the predominance of large scale industrial fishing in Mauritania, Guinea-Bissau and Senegal endorsed by the EU, which resulted in overfishing, unemployment and emigration in those countries.

[@jorgejimenez4325]

I believe neocolonialism has become even more subtle and perplexing than the obvious examples of the 1930s-1960s. This term "globalization" which is thrown around, what it really means is less freedom and sovereignty for small up-and-coming countries, and less for people who don't want to live in increasingly inhuman cities. A conservative can appreciate what's going on by simply noticing that what they did to the Native Americans they're going to do to everyone that doesn't comply in the "global partnership of the future." We have to keep in mind the many examples the US propped up communist regimes in Africa with help from the Soviets in order to "decolonize." What this was, was to bring more destabilization and outside control. The only solution is localism, self government, enough outside discourses imposed by international capitalism.

[@sjt4689]

Wow, this is an amazing conversation & amazing concepts, although 'concepts' isn't quite the right word....I have been aware of these connections for quite some time, but not in this way. Truly wow.....great review of history related to our current AND past world situation. My own family stood up against these things & suffered greatly for it. Imprisonment, children taken away, murder, non-stop harassment, societal discrimination by 'legal' systems & more. I will be having my own conversations with people I know regarding this subject, and will be sharing this video again & again. We all MUST move away from this manner of 'government', whether via 'elected' officials, corporations or religions. They've all got to go. Thanks so much. Many blessings to all ❤

[@artistasfamily]

This is such an important discussion to have. Thank you Happen Films and Tina Ngata. Honouring, respecting, listening to and learning from First Peoples' connection to land will return sanity to our communities, heal us and the Big Mother that is this beautiful globe.

[@HannahMitchell-Art]

I’m a bit late to the party but this interview is outstanding! Thank you both ❤❤

[@Selina42]

This was absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much.

[@Wracamydonatury]

Thank you for this wonderful conversation and sharing.

[@havenbastion]

I'm waiting to see what you mean by decolonizing but as i understand what colonizing is, there's no way to undo it.

[@wes4192]

I think we all get chin tattoos and its done

[@UncleSamSiam]

Colonizing isn't wrong. It is natural and can be good, it all depends on the new cultures values

[@ex_orpheus1166]

@@UncleSamSiam Extracting resources and labour at the expense of peoples and cultures is wrong. This is what colonialism is.

[@UncleSamSiam]

@@ex_orpheus1166 Forming a colony is what colonialism is... the "native" population is doing the same thing...

[@ex_orpheus1166]

@@UncleSamSiam Forming a colony generally entails the extraction of resources and peoples at the expense of the native population.

[@ikesau]

AMAZING discussion. Super inspiring. Tina has an incredible attitude and patience towards explaining these fundamental historical injustices, to me - the ignorant, privileged beneficiary of a incomprehensibly unfair system. Discussion on what's next involves all of us learning: making sure every citizen of a colonial nation understands this history and can meaningfully participate in correcting for it. I'm reading up on Dum Diversas and Inter caetera now. It's a really helpful way of framing things. "This is where it all started. We need to work from here"

[@wes4192]

Maoris were the best colonisers of all. They wiped out the first nation of nz. Literally committed genocide.

[@ikesau]

@@wes4192 Are you referring to the Moriori?

[@verralife]

keep the spirit and keep inspiring women all over the world .... I really idolize you

[@lawrencewillard6370]

There are flaws in your logic, if they are addressed, then you are also are a coloniser. Where does this lead?. How do you choose that you are the first people when it is clear your not?. This twaddle only detracts.

[@kiwitraveller6451]

I agree there were people here before Maori and maori is not real naming of maori. Look into and study more on our real history first. There were the red head peoples here and celtic peoples also and where did so called maori people get there carving patterns from in the first place? Just saying and do not mean to be offensive...I am part maori if you want to call maori maori that is...

[@speaklifegardenhomesteadpe8783]

Agree This is demonic

[@wes4192]

Maori are second people

[@capitalismisdivisionofevil8322]

MOST powerful form of destroying crony capitalism = teaching people to disengage from it by NOT buying 90% of the want based goods in all major retailers and corporations. Time to squeeze them dry of thier greed and malfeasance!

[@torqingheads]

Upoke is the term for Maori slaves. They were about 80% of the population prior to the Europeans. They were the primary source of protein in what was a horrific degeneration of Polynesian society into rampart structural cannibalism - a period of horror that lasted some 500 years until they were rescued by the European. The Maori had come with the original Polynesian caste structure of royals, bonded commoners after being outcast and set adrift on rafts to end up stranded in NZ. Within a recorded period of about 8 generations this then degenerated into 9 different language groups ( no common language) and a horrific two tier ethnically and racially based caste structure. - Ariki / from the original royal elite - these were documented and painted or drawn as lighter to white skinned, wiry, smaller boned, fine featured, thin nose, thin lipped, straight hair, anxious, aggressive cannibalistic ruling class. Upoke / from the original bonded commoners (such bonding or serfdom broke down in NZ as land was unconstrained) and slaves. Upoke or poke was used in conjunction with Kuku or Kiko ie a Upoke Kiko was slave flesh - or else poke singular or pokes group). The Upoke slaves were the 'wealth' of the Maoris and raiding and capturing other clans and tribes Upoke was the primary industry of the Maoris. These Upoke were dark skinned, larger limbed, thick lipped, flat nosed, curly haired, easily fattened, low IQ and sedentary. The settlements of the Maoris (Pa's) were in valley passes where they could anticipate attack from the sea and run into the bush behind. A Pa's very design is as a cannibal storage camp of humans as slave eating flesh with perimeters controlling access and confining the slaves. Have a good look at the original designs of the Pa's and what their real purpose was. Upoke females were normally killed and eaten at birth but on arrival of the Europeans -( trade was for Upoke boiled male heads carved with European arabesques eg 'Maori Moko designs - all European) but with a shortage of that & the trade being policed - the Maori Ariki turned to selling young Upoke slave girls to the sailors and settlers for guns. Often as records show, the Ariki would line up the young Upoke on the beach or field and then tell the Europeans they would all be slaughtered and eaten unless the European met their demands. As such the European settlements were flooded with Upoke slaves, mainly young females being the demand. The Europeans bred with these slave females gave immunity to the mixed race offspring disease such as measles & flu that full blood Maori did not have. Again this is subject to much record (1880 onwards) about the 'revitalization' and out breeding of the Maori being their only path of survival / there was much concern the Maori would become extinct so all Europeans & Maori were much focused on such outbreeding to ensure that a trace of Maori may exist in the future.By 1903 there were no Ariki left and only 14 very old full blood Upoke. The last full blood died in 1944 - as reported by the minister of Maori affairs much later to the NZ parliament. The marked differences between the Ariki and the slave caste were much commented on, discussed and captured in paintings & portraits. Almost all Maori today would be offspring of Europeans & Upoke slaves - the filters of inter Maori fratricide between the Ariki clans & disease acted as an filter to remove both Ariki and full bloods. 'This Horrid Practice' - Professor Paul Moon, 'Behind The Tattooed Face' - Heretaunga Pat Baker, 'A History Of New Zealand Anthropology In The 19th Century' - H D Skinner

[@heather3629]

I would recommend anyone who is reacting negatively to this video without watching it, watch it. I would also recommend you find out what decolonisation actually means. Here's a handy link if you're interested in understanding more: theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-decolonisation-131455 Or just listen to what Tina Ngata says if you want to understand.

[@ex_orpheus1166]

To claim that giving land back to indigenous would involve destroying the national economy by expropriating settler run orchards, farms, forests etc to indigenous people, is a very naive and narrow perspective of #landback and sovereignty that doesn't account for the complexities entailed in it through Te Tiriti. There have been a number of examples in early settler history in Aotearoa of Pākeha benefiting from using Māori land without outright 'owning' it or expropriating it from Māori. I think we can learn a great deal from this history and apply it to a Te Tiriti based partnership.

[@mcee5651]

"Profound devestation this was wreaking on our relations" @8:08... Is she really aluding to Albatross here? Tina does'nt appear nearly as hatefull as she does on her blog.

[@mikeaburton]

Thanks for the on-going education. We need these discussions/actions to get to a healthful space for all.

[@sierramejia5421]

I love seeing content like this. Intersectional conversations tying together environmental and social issues from a myriad of perspectives are ones worth having. Two of the three basic principals of permaculture design is "people care" and "fair share" after all. We should not resign ourselves to the idea that colonization and the competing for resources will forever be human nature just because it dominates our history books. Just as any other species humanity is capable of adapting and evolving. Discussions on how to create a more equitable world are evidence of that and it starts with asking what can we do to support those who are currently reaping the consequences of our competitive past. But this is a conversation that takes more than an hour long podcast to be had and with incredible nuance so if you feel like there are terms and concepts brought up here that rub you the wrong way perhaps taking a deeper dive could dispel your discontent.

[@ncooty]

I can appreciate Ms. Ngata's aims and intentions, but I dislike her flippant use of inflammatory terms. I did not hear her describe any modern practices that constitute colonialism, and her use of "neo-" seems merely to add ambiguity. The oil and plastic companies she mentioned don't control the governance of NZ (as a colonizer would); they operate under the laws of NZ. If she dislikes it, she can vote accordingly. That's not colonization. Likewise, she uses the term "privilege" in an ambiguous way. The companies have influence she dislikes; is that her definition of privilege? The companies' influence is a matter of law; she can vote and the companies can't. Where's the colonization? Where's the privilege? Perhaps most worrisome is the persistent suggestion that race should be linked to geography--that we should all "go back where we came from." If that's her point, come out and say it, so it can get the ridicule it deserves. Just argue your point without using justice as a guise for racism. All races have explored, warred, and conquered. It's naive or self-servingly disingenuous to attempt to roll the clock back to a point in time that best suits your story of sanctimony. We're all here now; we must try our best to do what is right now. We should try to remedy past wrongs without pretending that guilt inheres in race or passes from one generation to the next.

[@ncooty]

@Gewreid: I think that's highly contextually dependent. There will be different solutions for different issues in different places. I also think the process matters. I don't want to tell other people what the solutions should be for their issues; it should be determined by the various stakeholders. I think it's safe to say, though, that too often we focus on race as a way to group stakeholders, and we too often use race rather than more appropriate measures (e.g., poverty). I also think there's a challenge in deciding who will speak for whom. E.g., how are the aggrieved parties grouped? Who has authority to speak on behalf of all members of a group? Can people opt out of a settlement? How should we calculate shares of a claim? How should we measure harms to remedy? How should we decide the possible forms of remedies? Etc. Likewise, who will decide what a settlement means in public discourse? (E.g., are those settled grievances now bygones relegated to the past?) These aren't insurmountable questions, but they're more difficult than many people realize. One of the hidden hurdles is that different cultures have different norms of fairness, and these negotiations are typically between different cultures. Likewise, I think one of the landmines in these conversations is phrasing in the form of "People of your race harmed people of my race in the past; therefore, you owe me XYZ." Person A might have inherited wealth or privilege, and Person B might have inherited harms or disadvantages. _Those_ are the currencies of remedy, not accusations and blame. Person A did not inherit the sins of others because of her race, and Person B did not inherit some sanctimony of victimhood because of his race. None of us chose how, where, when, or in what skin we came into this world.

[@gewreid5946]

​@@ncooty I agree very much with your statement. (I think one of the landmines in these conversations is phrasing in the form of "People of your race harmed people of my race in the past; therefore, you owe me XYZ.") It would be very interesting to have a neutral discussion of the mindset, ideas and worldview present in colonialism, which fell away, which persisted and how they affect and shape our current worldview and various systems. The tribalism and group-interests that tend to get involved unfortunately make it a very emotionally charged and hard to approach topic. It would be great if people could just let the past be the past, take a snapshot of our current situation and see how we can best move on from there.

[@gumbooter5562]

Great point. Let's just all go back to Africa and be done with it. We can live in the Sahara there's plenty of space.

[@ncooty]

@@gewreid5946: I think an important aspect of any such discussion would be to determine what phenomena are being explained and at what level. Phenomena rarely cross levels of analysis cleanly. For example, colonialism operates at the nation-state level, so it would not work well as a direct explanation of individuals' behaviors. Of course, there are mechanisms to cross levels of influence (e.g., laws), but those should be clearly hypothesized/ stated rather than merely vaguely intimated. For example, it's just unhelpful, inflammatory, and illogical for people to base claims of "institutional racism" on individuals' actions. (That's the fallacy of affirming the consequent.) I also think it would be helpful if people would simply speak on their own behalf. Many people try to inflate their own legitimacy by starting sentences--especially grievances--with "As a [insert group affiliation]..." Many times, that phrasing--and its more overt versions (often indicated by "we" and "us")--is intended to imply that the speaker speaks on behalf of all or most people in that group, or that the non-members in that framing have less legitimacy to speak. It seems many people dislike the idea of merely presenting their gripes, perspectives, and preferences as their own. (If a group elects a representative to speak on their behalf, that's a different matter.)

[@gewreid5946]

@@ncooty Colonialism wouldn't work as a direct explanation for individuals behavior, no. It could however have an indirect influence trough culture, the education system and other such things that also operate on a nation-state level and do influence individuals. But i agree that when people talk of "institutional racism" it would be helpful to state/investigate in which specific institutions and trough which pathway/mecanism that racism manifests. I also think that for people that reject the idea of "institutional racism" (and that have a honest interest in making things better, not just protecting themselves and perpetuating their institutions in their current form) a similar exploration of what underlying problems might cause something that looks like racism on the surface level could be valuable. My personal interpretation of why people tend to speak on behalf of groups and shy away from just presenting their own gripes is that it is a consequence of multiple things. At the base of course is the idea of democracy that is quite prevalent in "western culture", that what the majority wants is what's right and what should be done. Which is a beautiful idea of course, but the ugly flipside of that coin is that individuals, their concern and their suffering don't matter if they stand alone. And on the "opposing side" you have monolithic, unaproachable Institutions that take decisions that concern individuals from a far zoomed out perspective. You have nation-states, corporations and international agreements and institutions with their own statistics, values, dogmas rules and goals so far removed from the individual level. More and more things get centralized, institutionalized, privatized or otherwise taken away from the individual, community or local level. Humanity and emotions get disregarded as irrational and have no place in a political, economical or scientific discussion. It only makes sense that people try to create the institution of "the masses" or "the people" so that they are even perceivable on that scale. That is the underlying principle of our currentform of democratic governance after all. I care about my feelings and opinions. I want to be heard. I am sick of being ignored and not getting a say in shaping the world i have to live in. I can't know for sure but i assume other people feel the same.

[@mellonglass]

The tragedy of our commons was to believe in fictional debt beyond the carrying capacity to extract more an more difficult to reach resources, and to prop up this mining with another round of debt called ‘no debt ceiling’. A huge cocktail of fracking chemicals, costs more than the oil and gas extracted. A huge tar sands industry, costs more water and diesel, machinery and vast wasted land, than the products ‘worth value’ to survive. Just because we can not see pollution, it by no means is going away and has been noticed as a problem since world war one. In school we are taught to ‘tread lightly’ on nature, what part of ‘treading lightly’ is taught in a corporation that has a human right, and to this human right to exist, employs narcissistic purpose to harm everything but its ‘ends’.

[@missdemeanor3524]

I agree, exploitation of resources is due to corporations siding with high level politicians in order to mutually benefit from pillaging the land. Your garden variety whitey had nothing to do with those decisions and didn't benefit from them. Yet these grievance mongers insist on lecturing us on these wrongs. They NEED to start educating politicians and corporate heads, as they have the power to change things. But that corporations and politicians won't listen. Instead they'll allocate drips and drabs of money to fund these non-profits so that they don't focus on the real problems. The grievance mongers are so obedient because its all about money to them. As long as they get funded, they can keep on barking up the wrong trees.

[@mellonglass]

miss demeanor a child will notice the difference of lying to sell, and giving the truth, this is why a child is a risk to a sell and the salesman’s dishonesty. Any way it is cooked, we encourage good sales over reality of rocks on the beach with no price tag.

[@johncisneros6676]

I WANT WHAT SHE IS SMOKING !! ! ! !

[@gumbooter5562]

Does decolonization mean taking the weed away

[@shawnaweesner3759]

The Mitchell Special Your comment is completely false!

[@SagaJohanna]

This is wonderful!

[@SagaJohanna]

chrismacsims are you referring to me having sex with my partner? I’m so confused...furthermore I’m referring to colonization where people claim ownership over land and then force their beliefs upon others. Claiming that one thing is superior or “right”. Have a great day. Wish you all the best ❤️

[@SagaJohanna]

chrismacsims hi again! I was confused about the “bend over” part ;) I don’t think my partner is a victim. But I do think it’s degrading and white supremacy when people say “maoris are stupid” or make jokes about them because they aren’t colonial white. That is one of the problems with colonialism. That there is inherent racism. The notion that white people are better or more clever then the “other”. Where are you from? The Vikings were truly violent people. However I would like to say that NZ colonialism was quite a bit more recent ;) but if you still feel hurt about what the violence during your ancestors time that’s okay.

[@marisamaclachlan]

Maori are the indigenous people of Aotearoa. Please show the peer reviewed science that says otherwise.

[@marisamaclachlan]

@chrismacsims I believe you are talking about theories (conspiracies?) that have no mainstream academic support. But it's hard to tell since you didn't name any authors, articles or publications.

[@SagaJohanna]

@@calliepygian9093 That is not the definition of coloniser. I am a visitor here, just as I have lived, paid taxes and visited several other countries. I am a individual travelling, not a country or government imposing my values and claiming land somewhere.

[@jornalistarenatarosa4205]

I'm from Brazil and we've got a feeling of to be worse than developed nation because of the colonial system thar still use workers as modern slaves. I hope the capitalism crises open more discuss like this to turn our societies that were built in a violent way in something better for the most of people.

[@konraddobson]

It really depends on who you were colonized by. If you were colonized by the British, you'd be among the most succesful countries in the world today, most likely. If you were colonized by the Spanish or muslims, not so much.

[@peterbrandis9894]

Fascinating.

[@capitalismisdivisionofevil8322]

Burning plastics = biofuel conversion

[@capitalismisdivisionofevil8322]

Decolonization is NOT completely possible! Localized communal spreading efforts of egalitarianism is possible! Every human buys 0.25 to 20 acres and then learns to share thier time and energy amongst thier local community members to restore a SHARING IS CARING approach while figuring out how to eliminate crony capitalism completely! The goal is to completely be self sufficient and no longer need money for all citizens of a country! No more state or governments!

[@swiatocien8577]

What a great woman!

[@dank9769]

Kia ora Tina and Antoinette, tino kaha te kōrero nei, and such a privilege to hear it explained in your eloquent way. Can't say it enough: Māori never ceded sovereignty; control over NZ emerged from the barrel of a gun, first, and then via dispossession in the courts... just classic to see the trolls seething, but this is the history, this is the present. If permaculture and growing is to be anything other than a hobby for a certain class, then these are the conversations we need to have. Sit with the discomfort, the challenge it poses to received [white] narratives; let its difference remake you - and who knows what beneficial relationships we might yet build x

[@ncooty]

@29:02: It takes a powerful victim mentality to convince oneself that the problems of many African countries are due to other countries being *too willing* to make voluntary concessional loans to impoverished countries and *not* because of the rampant, pernicious corruption in those countries. Are you kidding?! Is she arguing that those countries would have fared better if the international community had *not* funded development? I suspect in that case she'd be complaining that the international community had "abandoned" those countries. It's victimhood all the way down.

[@gewreid5946]

"Is she arguing that those countries would have fared better if the international community had not funded development? I suspect in that case she'd be complaining that the international community had "abandoned" those countries." I don't know what she's personally arguing for but "development:yes/no" seems too simplistic to fit with the complex nature of reality and how things are interconnected. I think there is a conversation to be had about *what* kind of development should be funded and *how* that is done.

[@ncooty]

@@gewreid5946: I don't want to criticize her for something she didn't say. However, I've heard very similar versions of this debt argument before. It rarely seems well informed or well reasoned. There is a saying in international development that international aid is the process whereby the poor people in rich countries give money to the rich people in poor countries. That's often true. There is no greater impediment to international development than corruption within the recipient countries. The "slippage" (as it's often called in economics) often happens via self-dealing, cronyism, and thinly veiled embezzlement. I found it somewhat laughable that Ms. Ngata decried the governance structures of the IMF and World Bank, because voting to some extent reflects donations. However, that's not the case in all UN agencies, and the ones with one vote per country (or similar) have _worse_ problems with corruption, because the corrupt countries vote down measures for good governance. A troubling portion of recipient countries want free money they can steal without oversight or accountability. So, I think Ms. Ngata is being a bit naive. Imagine if you were destitute and someone gave you a long-term loan at 0% interest, accompanied by various forms of technical assistance (e.g., related to health, investing, education, agriculture, whatever)... and 10 years later you took out more loans... and then more loans... and then you blamed the lender for oppressing you with loans. Give me a break. Perhaps Ms. Ngata should consider that the UN only works in countries that are in great need of assistance. (Likewise, the IMF is the lender of last resort.) They are like physicians for patients with stage 4 cancer. The treatments will always be painful and the outcomes will often be bad, but that's not the physician's fault.

[@gewreid5946]

@@ncooty Yep, things never are just one thing or the other. It makes sense that Ms. Ngatas opinion regarding the institutions might be off, if it lacks detailed (insider) knowledge of that specific topic. Nobody can be an expert on everything and reality is quite intricate and complex so conflicts and misunderstandings are to be expected where different topics intersect. That doesn't seem adress the point though that debt can severely cripple a country, make them dependant and limit their choices. And this argument is, in my opinion, only made stronger if the money didn't benefit the country itself but went into private pockets while the debt for such money does get stuck with the country. There's also the question of what the investments should go to if they weren't being "slipped". You seem quite knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff, do you have any thoughts on that?

[@ncooty]

@@gewreid5946: Debt itself isn't crippling; servicing the debt can be. However, debts from international assistance are highly concessional (e.g., lengthy grace periods, deferred payments, very low interest, etc.). The danger of debt is primarily from not investing in things that will yield benefits sufficient to service the debt. As mentioned previously, this is where people who bemoan debt-based international aid often speak out of both sides of their mouths. That is, they simultaneously claim that (a) any oversight from lenders (i.e., strings attached) is a form of economic colonialism and (b) lack of oversight fuels domestic corruption. Aside from acute, emergent harms (e.g., natural disasters, genocide, acute public health risks), the top priority for all international aid should be to strengthen governance systems (e.g., rule of law, transparency, participation, effectiveness, efficiency, accountability, etc.). Without good governance, international assistance--in whatever form--is usually wasted. However, well intentioned, ultra-liberal people often criticize governance reforms as colonialism, precisely because that's what the despots in those countries say. (Ultra-liberal people are often hyper-credulous regarding claims of victimhood, so even despots are viewed as speaking on behalf of victims. Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating conservative views, which I generally find far worse.) For example, Mugabe wanted to embezzle as much money as possible, so for nearly 40 years, he claimed that any foreign-funded efforts to strengthen governance in Zimbabwe were colonialism. In his telling, anything short of sending him free money was colonialism. (Note that he was happy to sell off vast amounts of Zimbabwe's natural resources to China for the cost of bribes, and to accrue public debt to fund Chinese mining. It's a similar set of issues with Hun Sen re: dams on the lower Mekong in Cambodia.) Those issues are compounded by the fact that international loans are denominated in the lender's currency (e.g., USD, EUR, SDR). Mismanagement of public finances in the borrowing countries often leads to excessive inflation, so even if the interest rate is 0%, they repay higher amounts in their national currency. Again, though, that's the fault of the borrowers, not the lenders. It would be hard to call concessional lending "predatory". In fact, in many cases, international aid poses a moral hazard, by insulating despots against the consequences of their mismanagement. That is, the international community enables bad rulers and bad systems to persist. In the end, though, the purpose of international aid isn't to help people in the recipient countries; it's to buy off the consciences of people in affluent countries who rely on exploitation in poor countries to fund the wealth gap we enjoy... preferably at bargain rates. In that sense, it's a raucous success.

[@gewreid5946]

@@ncooty "The danger of debt is primarily from not investing in things that will yield benefits sufficient to service the debt." That actually is one of my criticisms of development loans. It is an investment and as such there needs to be a monetary return. One can't just invest locally in community resilience and regenerating landscapes for the benefit of the people subsisting off them. It's as you said, international aid isn't about helping people. You give people money to build facilities and infrastructure to extract resources that they then need to sell to you in order to give you back your money. That seems like quite a crappy deal, especially if health-, social- and environmental costs are being externalized while profits are privatized. I get why people call it "neo-colonialism", it does seem like just another scheme to get their resources. I do agree that there seems to be a general overemphasis on values like freedom and liberty always and on all scales, that can and will be exploited by bad-faith actors and selfish people with power. In my personal opinion, liberty and power have to be in an inversely proportional relationship. The less power you wield, the smaller the scale you can act on - the more liberties and room for individualization (or the local/community level equivalent thereof) and experimentation you should have. The more power you wield, the more lives your decisions will impact, the further zoomed out your perspective - the more your power and ability to govern should be kept to a functional minimum.

[@torqingheads]

Quite a history about the Maori - put the Inca's or the Aztecs to shame in degeneration. Outcast as weaker primitive Neolithic people by the invading Hawaiians & Tongans (Maori were from the original wave of primitive Asian/Melanesians pushed right out across the Eastern Pacific by successive stronger races coming from the west). They were outcast on rafts and some floated up in NZ stranded for 500 years. The weaker were pushed down to the South Island or Chathams etc. So the South Island Maori (had their own language) were the weakest of the weak. They were captured and eaten as 'Slave flesh' by the northern Maori doing raids. (Well they all ate each other - 80% of Maori pre European were dark skinned easily fattened slaves farmed and eaten by a lighter skinned 'Ariki' thin wiry elite royal caste). So it was with some righteousness as well as British cunning that they armed the southern Maori who then with muskets launched a genocidal war on the north.. That plus measles & flu halved the Maori population and removed most of the elite. The British then liberated the slaves and outlawed cannibalism. The northern Maori fought with the British against the south bad west Maori 'rebels'. The Maori sued for peace and a treaty was signed that removed all sovereignty and made them subjects to the English crown where the English would protect them from each other. Land could only be sold to or via the Crown. Maori could live on their reservations with native custom but none did. The treaty of Waitangi is strikingly clear in that the Maori cede any claim and give up and die as an original society - all 3 clauses lock that in. Nothing in today's 'Maori' culture is authentic. The music - all European (Maoris did not have tonal music, the songs are missionary tunes or introduced - Poi dance is from Islands and Stick dance from old Malaya. The carvings and art - all European - Arabesques that was the fashion at the time. Original Maori had limited dash carving and no painting of objects. No written language - all the syntax & grammar plus vowel inflection is European. No technology - some lagoon canoes and wood or stone Neolithic tools. No food sources - like pigs or crops - they left that all behind, all they had was a weak inbred fox (now extinct), some rats and a weak dismal pacific yam. They ate out all the bird-life, didn't know how to farm the sea as were island people and so they turned to societal cannibalism. Today - no full blood or half blood left. No genuine tradition and almost all are offspring of Maori slave females sold to white settlers for muskets or food. -So more fake than the 'Sioux' or 'Cherokee' or 'Crow' who had at least retained some genuineness about who they were and their history. -Everything you 'saw or experienced' is Fake. A totally convected disneyfied tokenistic set of inventions fueled by a grievance culture of almost totally European people fetishing a false past bad history because it pays benefits. 'This Horrid Practice' - Professor Paul Moon, 'Behind The Tattooed Face' - Heretaunga Pat Baker, 'A History Of New Zealand Anthropology In The 19th Century' - H D Skinner

[@ooosh420]

The fact that some feel so confronted and challenged by this shows just how important it is to talk about it. There is nothing but positive outcomes to be had for everyone.

[@walking_with_cj]

Unsubscribed.

[@familyfungi]

Apparently comments are being deleted? I'm not sure; regardless, I am unsubscribing. My grandmother has spoken to me about how her grandmother, a Cherokee, was displaced from her land and then married a "white man." I have a sneaking suspicion that their marriage was not consensual. However, I would not be here today without her, and to the many other ancestors whose plight I will not know, I give my thanks. I am 27, I have a son, I grow medicinal and edible mushrooms and forage for medicine and food as well. I am categorized now by this sick-minded society as a "white man." I do not identify with this or any title of division. We are all beings on this same planet. My only claim here is the air in my lungs and the will to move on. That's what allowed my ancestors be here no matter the circumstances and it is what will allow for our All One tribe to continue. We would do well to stop fighting amongst ourselves and grow food, plant food, and build a better society by becoming more self-reliant. If you came here to listen to a video about how colonialism or capitalism are bad, then give your phone, computer, or tablet to the less fortunate (less privileged) and go plant something. If you're truly against these systems then live outside of them. I am not against them, but I do not support them. I remove myself from the influence each time I plant another tree or save another seed for the next season. Namaste, Mahalo, we're All One, or None.

[@defaultname3324]

thank-you.. this resonates & is the path I walk too . ''We would do well to stop fighting amongst ourselves and grow food, plant food, and build a better society by becoming more self-reliant'..... & 'I remove myself from the influence each time I plant another tree or save another seed for the next season'. Deep Namaste to you James

[@carl8568]

@@defaultname3324 This will probably get harder and harder with The Great Reset and Agenda 21 looming.

[@jotape420]

Really cool

[@tracyron5172]

Such inspiration, my Great grandmother was north american Indian. Such inspiration! Keep going bless you. Warrior of light! Your passion my passion and hearts combined. Love your modern interpretation of colonisation!!! My sister of unity, bless you. X

[@AVeravieff]

So she wants to bring Mugabe's Zimbabwe land reforms to New Zealand?

[@marisamaclachlan]

I've listened to the entire podcast and I didn't hear anything at all similar to what you're suggesting.

[@konraddobson]

@@marisamaclachlan That's what it always comes down to though.

[@april-tui3524]

No.

[@ex_orpheus1166]

@@marisamaclachlan She said giving land back may involve ruining the economy. This is a pretty naive and short sighted way of viewing land back as a good deal of indigenous peoples in settler colonies know outright expropriating land from white settlers is a dumb idea.

[@octopusenvy]

"the Non-Plastic Māori"... pai tō huarahi, tō karanga taiao hoki e hoa. Long way from overshooting the Waikaremoana walk back in the dayz...good times :)

[@Bellg]

Ooh my 50/50 like to dislike ratio

[@vintage_violet]

Some people must be really attached to using plastic! 🤔

[@98TrueRocker98]

@@vintage_violetOr they just hate other peoples politics being pushed down their throat like "muh colonisation"

[@guerillagardner3876]

It's not OTHER PEOPLE'S COLONIZATION. Almost every land has been colonized....

[@johnowens5342]

I see this video was made 2 years ago. Have you decolonized yet or was this virtue signaling?

[@speaklifegardenhomesteadpe8783]

Demonic

[@burnsloads]

European colonization of Africa was the best thing that ever happened on that continent.

[@kristofp72]

Woke politics that's unsubscribed by me bye.

[@cathylegg530]

I found the links Tina drew in her korero between Europe's crusades and its colonising activities to be a stunning insight. I never realised before how they were pretty much continuous in time. Those Papal Bulls definitely need a reread in the light of today's world, and today's understandings

[@quraibawentzel4143]

@Antoinette.Nice one girl.You and Jordan are inviting very good speakers.Tinas observations are important to a lot of ppl.We share a similar situation in so many ways.

[@udz39]

Lol

[@guerillagardner3876]

Wow! I'm right there with you! The whole WORLD is in the process of being decolonized, is my hope and belief. Things are ahappenin', and, boy, are "they" putting up a stink and having a major hissy fit! NOW is the time for REAL change! Real justice! It's time to fix things to make life on Earth a better experience! In EVERY way! For EVERYONE! Yes, We need the Return of the HEART!! GREAT INTERVIEW!

[@ncooty]

@Neffie: What do you mean by "decolonized"? Many people seem to use that term rather vaguely, so if you could be specific, I'd find that helpful.

[@carl8568]

The rich are still getting much richer and the poor, poorer. This planned, current economic carnage is devastating the middle class. If you haven't realised, small & medium sized businesses are getting destroyed right now.

[@guerillagardner3876]

@@ncooty I mean the central banks set up in almost every country (all ONE, run by the same cast of shady scheisters and dating back hundreds of years---and the funders of colonization) are being wound down and drained of their money, power, and control. They have embedded their minions in every facet of society, business, politics, education, the courts, the media, military, and medicine to steer us all in a certain impoverished direction while they bathe in the lap of luxury, get richer by funding both sides of wars THEY start, and traffic our children--among other horrendous things!! This is the time of TheGreatAwakening and we are mad as hell and are putting a stop to their crimes--especially against humanity! They don't like that we're all catching on and connecting the dots; Seeing their blatant crimes and following the money trails to unmask the ones behind the curtain acting like the great and powerful OZ!! Well too bad! Their time is done! This Earth belongs to us ALL and the power is OURS! We wish to go forward in peace, prosperity, and good health, without threat of mafia-like thugs who have all the money (because they printed it themselves)! They're a JOKE! You can bet there will be MANY changes in the years ahead! Good ones! Because the good people of this Earth are going to make it happen! Blessings to you all!

[@quraibawentzel4143]

My greatest respect to you Tina.I am Irish ,need I say more, your talk touched me deeply.May you have success in all the good work that you do for your people.Don't give up ever.My heart is with you.

[@dickhead8775]

Tina Ngata looks white to me. She has painted her face because it's trendy to be a Maori.

[@mostpeople_]

No. Its trendy to be pro Maori which makes it easier to be Maori.

[@Rei89CH]

Thanks for this. Unsubscribing.

[@bhanu45602]

Stop playing with my dreams

[@wes4192]

She looks half maori at best.

[@blueskyandtrees]

Still Maori.

[@wes4192]

@@blueskyandtrees white/maori

[@blueskyandtrees]

@@wes4192 again, still Maori!

[@wes4192]

@@blueskyandtrees funny how mixed people identify down

[@blueskyandtrees]

@@wes4192 what do you mean?

[@prettyvacant2701]

the headphones Tina is wearing are plastic.

[@guerillagardner3876]

Who would give this a thumbs DOWN? (Sore losers?)

[@missdemeanor3524]

Read the comments.

[@mellonglass]

the ones who choose a religion to order by economics v a thermodynamics lesson on planet ‘a’ and natures ‘endless growth’ not ‘economics’ endless debt.