Immortal Empires Head to Head Tier List | Warhammer 3

[@morewarpstone]

Best tier list ever

[@alistairbolden6340]

Darkelf Blackarks lets them make zero cost dragon stacks and have as many as they want, it also lets them build units far outside their boarders, and Blackarks can earn insanely high gold, allowing you to not even require any towns or cities. It should be almost impossible to lose as a dark elf player, you can just float one of your arks to the ass end of nowhere and no other faction can catch upto it. They are the strongest head to head faction in the game. You guys badly need to watch good players, play the game. Slaneesh is really a very strong faction early game they can rush down almost any other faction thx to seduce, roster wize they have the best heros, best cav and some of the best infantary. They can also take almost the whole donut by turn 15, The elf Island is one of the best starting positions. From an end game point of view once you have tens of thousands of cultists they are just disgusting, they can summon really good armies where ever they want on the map with no gold cost, easy S. I would put Darkelf far above Woodelf and Orc. A smart player gets to ignore Waaagh stacks from Orc's with ambush and lightning strike. Orc's are decent vs AI but they really struggle vs units that are fire on the move, their cav sucks, there flyers are slow and suck, there arty is mid.... I would move Orc's down to B, they are just such an easy army to out micro. Also Vampires really suck in headtohead, this is because what makes them good is raise dead, and hero's use the Hinder Replenishment ability prevent 's raise dead from bringing their units back. Kislev I think also raise to A, its S in the hands of a good player. Don't expand north, go south, just wipe out the Vamps and Empire, there starting spot for the Ice Queen is very good. Kislev combines slowing magic with good archer cav, allowing them to simply hard counter any melee based factions like Orc's. As Kislev you force Orc players to build Arrowboy stacks to even do any damage, Melee based factions tend to be really quite terrible in headtohead, they don't make the most of micro that's possible.

[@undeadsquire782]

@@alistairbolden6340 the town of yapsville called. they want thier mayor back

[@corgot93]

Dwarfs are at least C tier. Yea they are as slow as molasses but by late game you have a army comps that allow you to turtle up and negate the kiting. Their play style at that point is “I might not be able to catch you but I dare ya to come try and remove me from this spot!”

[@TheMrThornton]

Dwarfs and Greenskins have always held the soft spots in my cold Warhammer heart. In single player their backgrounds, rivalries, mechanics, and lore have always felt the most fleshed out and satisfying of all the faction rivalries, as well as having nice varied rosters, and that "Old World" feel I remember from the musty gaming sessions of my youth. Filled with the smell of Dunhill cigarettes, paint and truancy. I feel Dwarfs could form a solid backbone in a team campaign type setting holding mountains and passes, and generally being the obstinate, stubborn, rock booted, gold diggers we know and love.

[@isaacgorski6054]

​@Mr Thornton I just love killing greenskins and the dwarves make it fun

[@samuelevans738]

​@@TheMrThorntonhonestly, a clan angrund and oxyotl co-op campaign would be _really_ fun. Both would be able to cover what the other one lacks in, and it could make for some absolutely awesome "I've got your back" moments, too. That, and since oxy can settle literally anywhere, it would be really convenient for the dwarfs.

[@ancientgearsynchro]

Poison wind mortars have entered-arrived the chat-speak.

[@samuelevans738]

@@ancientgearsynchro organ guns and engines of the gods waved!

[@schitify]

I think your placement of vampire coast is accurate with your preset rules, but in the case where single entity doom-stacks are allowed esp w/ lightning strike count Noctilus goes from mid to insanely powerful with his basically free 20 necrofex doom-stack

[@caveychip7]

If you've seen the grim kleaper's video, you know just how busted they can be

[@littlebigplanet321]

I this they should at least be in par with Norsca. they have the most op artillery in the game and they have flying gun units to protect them. and the ghost girl has crazy summons when she gets up in levels. But yea their frontline can be kind of weak. I didn't like them for a long time, but then they quickly became one of my favorite for the air control. The artillery piece actually made me think I had a mod I needed to disable

[@lunsen402]

Now you just have to update this teir list with the chaos dwarfs XD

[@lunsen402]

And tamurkahn, and the rest

[@Poney-Demoniaque]

@@lunsen402 Lmao

[@thescarletpumpernel3305]

I couldn't place GoldTooth Ogres as anything more than C tier, truly abysmal faction to get started with with very little scope to use the existing mechanics like camps effectively.

[@thatonesailor9122]

That's going in the book

[@ArxStrategy]

I think warriors of chaos is low A and Belakor is S because warband recruitment forces you spend more time away from the front lines in the late game to get some chaos warriors also chaos is forced to build only in dark fortresses so economic potential is limited compared to a normal faction. So even if you have 25+ armies over 15 of them will be either supporting other armies or defending. Belakor solves that thanks to teleportation. The by far the greatest multiplayer advantage of chaos is the ability to change armies on the fly. The fact that If I am fighting brettonia I can turn all of my chosen/warriors etc into halberds on the same turn and turn them back to shields or great weapons is a massive factor in the hands of a good player.

[@OneDapperFrog]

Basically when pvp actually starts, you'll do amazing early on, but keeping it up till the end is the tricky part.

[@emixam6947]

That’s crazy. Moulder ambushing everyone is the worst thing ever to deal with. They are at least A

[@TheMrThornton]

I have written so many comments trying to praise this video without a single response. Not only am I backed up with constipated rage, I've also run out of paper.

[@morewarpstone]

Lol. This was a great and very funny comment 😂. Please leave your thoughts on what you disagree with, we’d love to hear where we’re wrong!

[@TheMrThornton]

@@morewarpstone Oh so now I'm supposed to watch it. This is the "Twilight Saga" all over again. (it would take too long to explain.) Really loved the format and the rapport you all have with each other. I found this useful beyond just the head to head stuff, which If I'm totally honest I've never had the pleasure of playing. And to give him the credit it was Andy's Take that got me here, so shout out to him. Big love, never let the sarcasm die, peace.

[@morewarpstone]

Awesome! We love Andy, great KZbinr and great person. Glad you found us!

[@EridianX]

High elves are always gonna be my favorite faction to play in warhammer. The combination of Imrik and an army of dragons with some sisters of avalorn as the ground force is just so powerful.

[@animewarrior3]

Demon of chaos can be really good. In the late game. Why- They actually have a really good economy late. You can have armies of khorne, reinforced by nurgle healing. Which is pretty crazy. Undivided daniel gives reallt good global recruitment. Super strong late game roster. And early on, Daniel can carry thanks to being the best mortis engine in the game. And to top it off, you get nurgle plagues (armywide vanguard) seduce units (pop out enemy artillery) tzeenty teleport stance. And khorne army growth by just winning fights. Not to mention ALL of chaos RoR, and really good lords.

[@ap_ace7237]

Gotta say this is one of the most interesting tier list I've seen for the game. I've never played multiplayer campaigns but I still have some opinions. As a khorne player i definitely think of them being S-A tier, especially in multiplayer. Khorne just has crazy movement mechanics and blood host are op. Also you can get to tier 4-5 so quickly because of bloodletting. I agree that once taken to late game they can be beaten but wow it must be hard stopping the skarbrand freight train early game. Also like to say I recently started playing slaanesh and I think there is potential to be a lot stronger than C tier but in multiplayer I imagine Slaanesh is a lot weaker

[@lunsen402]

I´d probebly put brettonia in D. Don´t get me wrong their cav is great and their lords are awsome but... that peasent economy mechanic kinda screws them so hard especially in the early game.

[@thomashowe1583]

Would be next to impossible, but seeing different combinations of factions would be a delight to see. I.e. Wood Elves that have an amazing roster and don't need a lot of money for their armies, and Dwarfs that can get those settlements W.E. captures and turn them into money farms. Or any combination of Khorne, Norsca, Beastmen and/or Greenskins that just have insanely fast growth and can pincer anyone between them.

[@JasperLane]

What might be kind of cool if you all have the time for it is a tier list for the specific legendary lords.

[@boomerix]

I see a strong bias against ranged here, which is weird since people in multiplayer battles and tournaments use plenty of ranged options and factions like Vampire Coast do preform decently there. You just need to keep in mind that you don't play against the AI and therefore can't use cheesy armies, but that hold true for any faction you are playing as. Factions like Vampire Coast, the Dwarfs, Skaven, the Empire, Kislev and Cathay benefit a lot of good formations. Especially the Vampirates and Dwarfs can excel by using artillery to force the enemy to act, with them being defended by line holders who get supported by gun lines. Of course these can be countered, but that counter then can in turn be countered. I successfully used a double diamond formation as a Dwarf against an opponent who used a cavalry heavy army, sure a spell would have been devastating for me but he didn't bring a spell caster. Sure the Vampirates have less sturdy infantry, but their summons and tarpit units are sufficient and unlike the Dwarfs they also have more options to protect their flanks. Everyone has their own play style and that's fine and as you said you didn't play much of the Vampire Coast. I just feel you guys haven't yet unlocked the full potential of factions with strong ranged capabilities. Otherwise having played a lot of MP Campaigns myself, I can mostly agree the tier list you have created. (Bretonnia can be F tier for new players as I recently discovered, poor guy just struggled microing his cav effectively and despite our best efforts to help him out he had a hard time understanding that his infantry is trash and he can't rely on them. At least not as much as he thought he can. But we all still had fun and that the most important part in the end ;)

[@morewarpstone]

Hi Boomerix!p We definitely do have some biased against ranged… we feel it’s (in general) far too vulnerable to flying units, cavalry, & magic. However, very good point! We may not have unlocked it’s true potential, and with the new LOS changes coming in the next patch, it will be even better. In future campaigns we will use some of these range-based factions & perhaps be surprised by them!

[@MrThatpersonthatguy]

I dont play warhammer multiplayer but I know that slaanesh have one of the most broken heros in the game right now, their cultists can create new cults which can create new cultists, creating infinite feedback loop, it would be really funny to see this in a multiplayer game.

[@Estus1999]

Genuinely curious as to where you would put chaos dwarves and the changeling and kislev now that they have new units and a different area to start in Personally i think mother ostankya is busted. Not only being able to warp herself but also other people to wherever she wants is nuts. So prolly s tier or maybe only A because she needs to own parts of kislev which is a detriment. The changeling also gets teleports but is nigh unkillable once theyve spread hard enough. And passively invisible. So also prolly s or a Chaos dwarves has some insane magic, some amazing roster, and incredible economy especially late game. Kinda rough start though and unit limits hurts pretty hard. So higher than dwarves but prolly only b or c

[@animewarrior3]

Changling S tier for sure.

[@Faravid829]

I agree with the tomb kings placement, and lizardmen placements.

[@edwarda7096]

Hey guys, I’m new to totalwar and warhammer, I’ve picked up WE with the twon sisters. We will be playing some MP IE games with my group. I was wondering, even on normal with easy battles, my wood elves battles to take neighbouring settlements against the dark elves to the east, and the rats south are always defeat for auto battles. And if we dont allow auto resolve, I’m not quite sure how i can expand into these. Would you have any tips?

[@charlesgarcindemayes256]

Really agree with most of the list but not with the lezard and the rats. The lezards are just awesome even at the beginning if you know how to play them, their saurus are just tanks and they did more damage than any other low tier units. Even their skinks are strong. In late game they can beat every armies except Chaos such as Archaon but if you chose the good Slan you can overthrow them. And finally their legendary hero is maybe the best in the game. The all faction (coz even the original lords are great but not interesting) is SS tier. For the rats as a rat player it is just so fun to play and so different regarding the legendary lord you chose (only the dlc ones). Ive just finished a campain with Throt and i was just so happy to play them with beast units and not only use the range units. The only exception is their magic not very good and the match up against the wood helves, their just too strong for the rats. Very good video

[@Verdiumm]

I think this probably needed to be done based on Factions/LL not Race. such a huge power difference between DLC lords and Base game ones. Lizardmen for example: Oxyotl's undercity mechanic is so unbeleivably strong in MP H2H, because it has no counterplay. You can make Oxy appear on their capital, and another bulding that means every time they move an army they have a 35% chance of being ambushed by a decent half stack army that appears out of nowhere. You can also use said undercities to globally recruit at normal cost, and -2 turns to recruit. oxy himself gets an easy +60% Campaign movement range or more, and can go into ambush stance at 10% movement left. All his skinks do extra AP, and have like 65 melee defense once you've done the tech and skill tree for it. I've seen buffed Red skinks take on chosen and win (just) in a 1v1, because they don't get hit lol, and they are all cheap as chips. Against my friend, i personally banned myself from using some of these because they are simply not fun to play against, but if anything goes, i'd reckon that's easily S tier. There is a lot of mechanics in TW clearly made with SP in mind that aren't fun, so me and my friends ban/put restrictions the ones that don't have counterplay generally. Belakor's portals, changing of ways, etc. We also enforce a turn order for armies by RNG when we get into direct fighting, it avoids armies moving in real time to dodge each other and stuff... lol. __ If you want H2H to be fun/balanced, it needs a pretty large amount of "Gentlemen rules", because there is such a large gap in mechanics. Current campaign, my friend is ostankya. she can literally just delete all my allies, or teleport my army to narnia, with no counterplay if we had no rules haha. great example.

[@playerioik6101]

Ogres Kingdoms deserved S tier if the opponent is far, tier A if you have a human-controlled enemy faction at the gates (like Grimgor, Kugath, Imrik, chaos dwarfs, or the Chinese dragons), and tier B if they rushed you. The only thing you need is time to grow those squeezy camps and then it's a matter of when you steamroll. ;)

[@trixus4768]

I think that you should revisit this topic at some point. It is interesting to hear your opinion😊

[@Slap651]

Warriors of Chaos logistics are garbo late game. Belakor is S tier cause of teleport. The rest nah A tier.

[@hippi0284]

I wonder how a S Rank factions head to head campaign would look like WE vs CoW or GS vs CoW or WE vs GS (WE=Wood Elves)(CoW=Warriors of Chaos)(GS=Greenskins)

[@Slap651]

I've played a few. They are a blast! There's a decent size discord if you want a link.

[@hippi0284]

@@Slap651 I feel that has been a misunderstanding it was more if More Warpstone created another H2H Shorts using S rank factions

[@Jecht1221]

@@Slap651 I want a link

[@My360AndMe]

Great list. With over 3000+ hours in Warhammer 3 i would have to agree with almost everything on here. The only changes I would make is very slight, and could be argued both ways. Namely, for vampires I would place them a tier lower. Their units are trash and the inability to field focused armies, relying on random raise dead areas, puts you at a fundamental disadvantage against a competent player. Most of your wins against AI only work because of wind of death and other magic against dumb AI. Not the case against a player, especially if they build monstrous units or single entities that will resist your area of effect spells. Overall though this is a nit pick. You guys have some good rationale and I can tell you have experience here. Other commenters have pointed out flaws with your stances that I don’t think are realistic, I think this tier list assessment is pretty accurate if not perfect

[@shmowpow5401]

If i made the tier list I would put tomb kings S but it's probably just me because I played sooo much tomb kings. I'm getting like 5.6k a turn at turn 30 and what you probably never thought about is vassalizing the other minor faction tomb kings. Heres why this is really broken and why I always do it. 1. Minor factions that aren't the tomb kings will only field 1 army. Tomb kings however, will field multiple. This allows for you to basically double your early game army count at the start of the game. And vassalizing them is super easy too! the AI tomb kings econ sucks so just pay them to be your vassal or give them a trashy settlement. Works every time and it snowballs out of control. Obviously for Khatep and Arkhan this doesn't work but you can just vassalize other major factions. Vassals are under rated in my opinion. Oh, and one more thing. Vassals are more likely to just gift settlements to the player. Keep that in mind. Roster isn't anything special so I feel like an A is more accurate.

[@morewarpstone]

Thanks for the info I appreciate it! I think vassaling would be better for single player when playing on higher difficulties for sure. You don’t get to control the armies yourselves tho so for multiplayer I just roll over them because I don’t need the army help against the AI. We will do another updated tier list where TKs will be higher, but I still don’t think S or A unfortunately. They can be very strong late game, but because of capacity restrictions, some factions can massively out-scale them I’d say B tier for them now l or maaaybe low A - Riggs

[@shmowpow5401]

I see. I usually rely on allies in my H2H campaigns because I just always have a prayer in mind that they will do something smart.. just at least once! Which is why I play my campaigns on Normal Normal so the AI can do stuff. I played a campaign where I was Malekith and my opponent was Tyrion. It was super fun and I remember we just fought over Vauls anvil (The one by the sisters of twilight spawn because for some reason there is 3 settlements with the name Vauls anvil) And theres a special building there that gives -10% upkeep faction wide if you're elves. I ended up winning the campaign by sending my black arks to sack Lothern and go into inner ulthuan (Super risky move) and sack the AI settlements because they were causing me problems. But then the endgame occured and my ally grombrindal (Yeah, I allied the white dwarf which is super against lore and still makes no sense with -40 aversion and if you didn't know, some races have a relation multiplier meaning that if you make a treaty with a fellow empire faction you get like +15 relation but make one with dwarfs and you get +12) But suddenly, the end game occurred. I always keep the endgame on because its a fun twist. And it was the dwarf one! meaning that grombrindal declared war on me and was super strong. Although his main army got super buffed and surprisingly Grombrindal was a one man doomstack and killed one of Tyrions armies by himself! I quickly confederated all my allies and sent the armies I gained to reclaim the lost territory to the endgame armies. Grombrindal took Tyrions 2 provinces in Naggaroth and eventually I managed to wipe grombrindal out. I spent some turns recovering and went to invade ulthuan. Tyrion surrendered the campaign and I won. You should do a Tyrion v Malekith campaign. I think you'd enjoy it if you haven't already. But in reality I probably said A or S because of my bias with tomb kings to be honest. They were the first race I played in the total war warhammer series. I'm loving your videos, keep up the good work!

[@jackstefan8639]

@@morewarpstoneI’m pretty new to ur channel as I got total war recently and haven’t been able to play but seeing u guys have so much fun and the fact ur the only head to head channel has made me a huge fan I hope u make da new list soon I’m aspiring to main chaos dwarfs and I’d love to see what their they place:)

[@jojomicswagens8876]

You should do an S rank free for all. That would be hyoe

[@Beaunage]

Wouldn't Skaven be S+ in h2h? Throt or Sniktch monster/gutter runner armies with some artillery.

[@My360AndMe]

Countered easily by any competent player. Skaven are amazing against AI but awful in H2H. Your typical tactics just won’t work and your weapons team will be compromised, and your front line is weak

[@Beaunage]

But I don't see how you can easily counter something like AP gutter runner spam with monsters. @@My360AndMe

[@mirin707]

A weapons team army doesn’t work against a player

[@Tain_edReaper]

First I will say that Total War: WH3 is probably one of the hardest game to make a tier list for. IMO, to make an accurate tier list for head 2 head you'd probably need +10000 hrs. So it's a good try but I'm pretty sure a couple hundreds of hrs is not enough. I have +1400 hrs in campaign and multiplayer since the first game, additional +500 hrs in "head 2 head" WH2 and an additional +400 hrs in "head 2 head" WH3. Most of that time in the Vampire Counts Faction. So while I cant make a tier list on others I have rough idea of where VC sits. Since I am an enthusiast. Overall VC = D Tier. In my experience and because of my experience, 1v1 I can beat all newbies no matter what they play. For intermediate players, I can win probably 70% of the time. However, those who are veterans like me that specializes in 1 - 4 factions, with similar depth of knowledge I win 20%. That's how shit Vamps are. But I still really really like them. They have an awesome theme so you could say I'm a loyal masochist. This is my Vamps understanding in h2h vs other Veterans of the game. The Match up: Vamps vs High Elves = Very Very Strong Unfair Vamps vs Dark Elves = Very Very Strong Unfair Vamps vs Wood Elves = Very Very Strong Unfair Vamps vs Daemons of Chaos = Very Very Strong Unfair Vamps vs Warriors of Chaos = Strong Unfair Vamps vs Orgre Kingdoms = Strong Unfair Vamps vs Lizardmen = Unfair Vamps vs Dwarfs = Unfair (with the somewhat recent buff) Vamps vs Grand Cathay = Somewhat Unfair Vamps vs Kislev = Somewhat Unfair Vamps vs Orcs = Slightly Unfair Vamps vs Norsca = Slightly Unfair Vamps vs Bretonnia = Slightly Unfair (with the recent buff) Vamps vs Tomb Kings = Slightly Unfair Vamps vs Empire = Even (Situationally Even, Empire wins if given time enough turns to develop) Vamps Vs Vampire Coast = Even Vamps vs Beastmen = Win Vamps vs Khorne = Unsure Vamps vs Slanesh = Unsure Vamps vs Tzentch = Unsure Vamps vs Nurgle = Unsure Vamps vs Chaos Dwarfs = Unsure That's Vamps situation against anyone who knows* the game for campaign h2h. Mutiplayer I cannot comment on as I'm sure it's slightly different.

[@morewarpstone]

Yeah the multiplayer campaigns are so dependent on particular matchups and starting locations, so it is hard to have a definitive tier list. But thanks for your insight though. We have been playing a ton of campaigns recently to work up a catalogue and we definitely have learned a lot more about factions strengths and weaknesses specifically for multiplayer. We are definitely gonna make an updated tier list in the near future. - Riggs

[@Tain_edReaper]

Np. As you say location really matters. I'm speaking only from the Sylvania starting location as I believe it is the strongest. Used to be Vlad, but Isabella von castein lord now as I think she's the best in ttw3. Also forgot to include skaven at very very strong unfair

[@My360AndMe]

Very cool breakdown. Yeah I agree with your assessment, VC are actually mid to low tier and any wins pulled would be because of facing a noob. It can be difficult to stave off their economy if they’re constantly building coves but their units are trash against a competent player. I main Grom and would have zero issue overwhelming any coast player

[@Noctani]

I disagree with Nurgle, I'd put them at C or B. It takes a long time to learn them though. Cycling buildings at the same time to take money, it's very economic intensive.

[@joniviheraho621]

But the big thing is that they are very slow and the roster is kind of small

[@goldenpants-r8l]

would oxyotl not be considered s being able to teleport to settlements

[@morewarpstone]

Oxy is very much a SSSS lord

[@lordderp4872]

Vampire coasts are a high B if not A for me. Their melee infantry end up being an impenetrable wall and their artillery are just straight up the best especially if you have Bess. Surround the arty and missiles with melee infantry on a hill and no one can beat you. Also lords wise Noctilus at least can solo siege battles he’s a lord on par with Louen and Vlad.(can’t speak to Luther and the other lords)

[@zoomforlife]

how far each player from each others . that play a factor for me

[@Robis1313]

you should use all factions here on list and do random pick and then play with htem regardless of outcome

[@Ethan-hh8zn]

Yall should do a faction teir list instead of race teir list

[@s1n_er387]

I have ~400-450 hours solely dedicated to playing vampire coast in PVE and PVP across Warhammer 2 and 3, and I reckon that D tier (or possibly lower, you could argue) is fair. They suffer from one crippling weakness, and that is they aren't good at spreading/covering ground inland - they aren't designed to do so. Instead the game heavily incentives players to establish pirate coves after sending sacking port settlements with your horde. They suffer an identity crisis of horde or not - where do you spend your money? This is fine for PVE, where it doesn't really matter and you can stuff around, but in PVP when you expand, you steal real estate from your enemies. VC struggle to keep up the pressure their vampire cousins put out, or other factions for that matter. Additionally, because your armies will be sailing around, sacking port settlements for income AND for their faction mechanic to get shanties, you are losing potential military strength inland. Compounding this issue is the troubles VC has with taking walled settlements. You NEED to build the correct armies to take walled settlements (you cant just single entity spam, as the rules More Warpstone play by list no more than 7 SE units). Their guns have trouble shooting up at the walls, their mortars are inaccurate (besides queen bess), and their melee infantry and half of the monstrous infantry are appalling. Half the gun units are really bad too. Never buy the pistols! Ever! Their tier 5 units also take a long time to get, as horde/city growth is actually pretty slow. It just makes it really hard to take/hold onto victory conditions, especially if your big, bad horde settlement army dies, leaving re-recruitment to the bad global recruiting, or a hasty retreat back to provinces that have military buildings (if you even built any non-horde recruitment, as you can get by with your main legendary lord horde). Also they can't confederate. As far as their armies go in field, they are usable. A gun line is powerful if set up correctly, their single entities are good and the horde buildings can help out a lot with buffs and the abilities every battle. The gun lines are just hard to defend, you must make use of spawning as your own guns will kill your SE or monstrous infantry if you friendly fire. Bloated corpses are strong if you can pull them off (remember, you can send them at gates, they will do a lot of damage and hit behind the gate, [if they even make it there against a human opponent]) and their legendary lords are good. They just kinda suck in PVP, which is annoying because they are a cool faction. I couldn't imagine trying to commit to a full war of attrition or trying to capture a highly contested city with these guys, so D tier is the highest I'd say they'd be in your games.

[@strigoi_guhlqueen8355]

Oh yeah wished you would make a video like this.

[@alecshockowitz8385]

I do think Daniel (Legions of Chaos) should be a LOT higher. Unit flexibility for going undivided is very strong, and he has fantastic hero options. The trap there is you desperately want your lord to be a caster, and have them using damage spells, to take advantage of his battle mechanics. Also, going undivided is very strong as you get 10(!) uses of Chaos Furies, you're most buffed up unit per battle. They get to be quite the wrecking crew dealing really good damage for a summon, let alone a flying summon. Daniel himself though is lacking, to get a proper damage build rolling, he becomes weak to missile fire. I'd at the very least put him at C tier.

[@morewarpstone]

Yeah these are great points actually, I have to agree

[@zoomforlife]

skaven all round banned in my head to head party they are op .. their power does not come from their guns u barely recruit that .they are very cheap and dont take long to recruit . u can easily swarm rush with them even against greenskin which another op faction . and their magic is great in multi player with summons and easy to use spells

[@ZafrasF]

I don't agree with your opinion on Ku'gath. He's op lategame, not just good. I agree Nurgle is F tier however.

[@jakubjasik6532]

Nice one! thumbs up and sub, but ogres legendary lords being good? as they so bad. There generic lords are better than LL ones (ofc in my opinion).

[@tymeksam1976]

Nice

[@Ranger45k]

K now do sfo. I think you‘ll find they do some super interesting stuff and it would be really cool to see what you think changes.

[@Noctani]

One thing that confuses me, is if you believe there is a tier list why would you consistently play on very hard easy for all matchups? It doesn't sound very fair or fun. Me and a friend do head to head all the time. S tier is Very hard, Very hard, A Very hard, Hard, B Hard Hard, C, Normal, Normal, D Normal Easy. The first difficulty is determined by the "highest tiered faction". If factions are of a different tier drop the battle difficulty by 2 for the first tier drop and by 1 for the second. So S vs B would be Very hard very hard for S and Very Hard Easy for B.

[@morewarpstone]

We do this to save time. However, some people like that style of play. Sadly for us, we do not have that kind of time :(

[@Noctani]

I'll try to live up to your channel. We are currently cutting the 1st video.@@morewarpstone

[@ifmyusernameisthatsh]

You had 3 left?

[@MrDavis-oz6uw]

GW nerfed the dwarfs in 7th and more so in 8th with steam punk gyros. GW should have take. 6th edition and built on that.

[@MLGodzilla]

Lizardmen are at least SS tier

[@spacemichael1177]

Luve me lady luve me hors luve me chiv ate the pesant ate haos ate mussillon nuf said

[@digiorno1142]

Empire is D tier. While it’s diverse and well rounded, it is mid in every aspect and when up against a more focused faction requires perfect micro to be able to support each other. Because individually their units get steamrolled. No way they are on the same tier as Bretonnia. Bretonnia has way higher potential than Empire.

[@littlebigplanet321]

Warriors of chaos: S tier 100% On the units alone

[@mercb3ast]

This is crying for an update!

[@MrDavis-oz6uw]

Humans in a world of monsters. Humans are rightly mid tier. Or it would not make any sense.

[@jorgenoliver895]

I can guarantee you can put all of there in S against me

[@krispinidan1478]

Do it again

[@bertrandbuisson9833]

Dwarfs and dark elfes should be in S Tier ! Best economy and op late game lords and troops :) Cathay is F Tier, heros are way too bad

[@morewarpstone]

What’s wrong with Cathay heroes?

[@My360AndMe]

Dwarf economy is trash lol

[@naummw6328]

bro Heaven is my fav type of magic how does Astromancer suck wtf

[@littlebigplanet321]

High elves do nothing the best, I would say they do air control the best no? I also love high elves my god they are strong, never tried head to head tho ;( One day I friends have Warhammer play

[@krodon1869]

where do chaos dwarfs rank?

[@morewarpstone]

Hi Krodon! We plan on releasing a new tier list that includes adjusted rankings and all races :)

[@neutralmob4739]

elfs are just easy mode...

[@kalieden5493]

I disagree with the Dark Elves position.I think they're prob C tier now. Malekith and Malus have really bad starting locations and the Slave system got butchered.

[@klipk7296]

I don't get why greenskins have such a good economy game, I thought orcs spend all their time fighting, how are they so productive?

[@morewarpstone]

An excellent point that CA should definitely think about!

[@Manlikepegasus]

Y’all crazy with the rankings for the chaos factions. Tzeentch in campaign(co op or not) is broken. In multiplayer Tzeentch is pretty decent, but you add all those buffs/mechanics from a campaign and it’s the most annoying shit ever. Only way to kill kairos is with range weapons or a flying anti large monster/character. In campaign the man can cast broken spells from a mile away. Tzeentch is the second best range faction after w elves. Khorne I think has decent units, but honestly they shit against human players. Skarbrand in many ways carry’s in campaign, and he can’t do that when playing against real players cause he’s so easy to kill. Unlike kairos he has to get in close to do damage, and by that point a smart human player would have shot him to hell and back. Slanesh units are amazing for multiplayer, but nkari is the easiest thing to kill on the planet. Also the faction mechanics are meh. Nurgle faction mechanics and roster are not great for multiplayer, but kugath is immortal. In regular multiplayer without campaign buffs, he can beat any character or monster in a. 1 v 1. He’s tanks as all hell, hits like a truck in melee, and heals like he never got hurt. In campaign he’s even stronger and the dude literally is a one man doomstack. He soaks up all your ammo and the heals back to full, so in turn his units don’t get hurt before you fight. The magic is all good as well. I think nurgle in multiplayer campaign only downside is the roster ain’t great, and so any army without kugath sucks. Plus the actual faction mechanics and economy is poop, but if you can use kugath in battles properly you will do pretty decent. So I would have placed Tzeentch at A, khorne at D, slanesh at C is fine, and nurgle at C. Also vampire coast and dwarfs are too low. I think y’all just bad, and that’s why you put some factions low . hahaha, jk don’t hurt me.

[@angun703]

Empire easy s tier

[@charleshixon3558]

Dark Elves S Tier. Best economy not even comparable. Black Arks are so strong. Ambush is super strong and they're very good at it especially on your own turf. Slave economy is strong once built, but their sacking bonuses are ridiculously broken and all stack. I don't think anyone can spread as fast as DE with a good player. Black Arks aren't recognized by the AI as armies in settlments, meaning that you just fly trap AI legendary lords into settlements over and over for money and slaves. The upkeep cost reduction on the Arks mean that you get to have more armies. You should be raiding with your first Ark on the other end of a sea lane ASAP. Hearing about the economy of Cathay being insane makes me think you're not playing DE right. Sure they're strong in a linear sense, but DE should be sacking every settlement and then occupying it and then raid stance into the next area. Sacking a major city with a Cruel Lord backed by Black Ark with slave pens and tier 1 tech is minimum 20k. Throw in heroes with the Cruel trait or STACK your Black Arks because for some reason that works and you're getting massive sums out of shit hole low tech ports owned by factions who have no way to reach you. There is no comparison. I've had Lohkir make well over 100k gold from a single sack before. Thats not even talking about the post battle loot and the separate bonuses there. Cathay's & HE economies are good smh... Yeah maybe by turn 100 they''ll make as much on a turn as I did from a sack at turn 20. Not comparable. I could see low S or high A due to the fact that there are some monsters out there with teleportation like Belakor. Belakor with the Sword of Khaine, which is extremely easy for him to get, is just not really beatable.

[@czechmeoutbabe1997]

Am I tripping or did you guys forget Chaos Dwarves? (or were they not out yet?)

[@morewarpstone]

Sadly this was posted just before Chaos Dwarfs release :(