Imperial Saints! Greater Deamons Of The God Emperor? Psykers? Stable Mutations? Warhammer 40k Lore

[@ArchYouTube]

✅ Install Raid for Free Mobile and PC: clik.cc/gLlGo and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion Knight Errant 🎉

[@mikecampos1193]

Damn they sponsor you damn that means the tide is changing.

[@draconisthewyvern3664]

@Arch what if the other daemons only appear they require constant access to the warp because enough people believe those daemons need to feed off of the warp constantly?

[@wojszach4443]

demon prince of emperor eh?

[@adoeman]

2:10

[@stevemanart]

do a lore video on Raid and I'll consider clicking your link

[@GiRR007]

The saints maybe able to survie outside the warp because they ARE similar to the eldar avatars. Except instead of being bound to metal bodies they are bound to their ORIGINAL bodys from when they were alive.

[@inquisitorthomasdefinitely536]

I would also compare them to demon princes since a recently turned demon prince can still hold its form in the physical world fairly well

[@hydra7094]

i think they sustain themselves by trillions of believers and temples around the universe same way as orks

[@michaelstegenga]

Being bound to a physical body. Almost like a perpetual...

[@KaiserAfini]

The avatar of Khaine isn't bound into a form of pure metal, its bound to a fancy sandbag, so it can be humiliated by the newest named character.

[@Khalith]

Per the Celestine book, before she can reincarnate, she wakes up with amnesia in some weird dimension, has to defeat aspects of all four chaos gods, reclaim her weapons, armor, and memories, and then she awakens in real space where ever she’s needed. Then when she dies, she has to do that all over again. Every single time.

[@demoulius1529]

Boy that sounds like a pain in the ass...

[@angry_zergling]

@@demoulius1529 Especially without any memories! She's not just rerolling herself at level 1, it's like she's creating her very first character ever as a bright-eyed and bushy-tailed noob! I wonder if she eventually regains her old memories once she's strong enough or if it's circumstance that just makes her keep coming to the assistance of the mortals in the same way each time.

[@Mystyx-Sama]

So, WoW hardcore with less incentive? Damn, if she cares that much I guess she deserves to be deified

[@lawaern3474]

So she does a whole video game plot every time she revives?

[@RobotTanuki]

That's a great premise for a 40k Rogue-like/lite

[@Dogcho]

Here's what I think: The Emperor was a god by the time of Lorgar's sanction. It was why Lorgar needed to be sanctioned and the worship snuffed out. Because it was acttually manifesting into reality.

[@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus]

Big E gave his nerd kid a bop on the noggin and then gave his warp poser manifestation a lesson on what vore is and what perfect cell was and incorporated it into his existence as a man/entity

[@evilsclone2499]

@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus absorbing an active cancerous growth seems like a pretty dumb idea ngl

[@rotekampfflieger-dr.I]

The censuring of lorgar was deserved. Obey thy father boy.

[@charlottewalnut3118]

@@rotekampfflieger-dr.IThe Heresy was deserved and the emperor is evil

[@physetermacrocephalus2209]

​@@charlottewalnut3118 Freedom means nothing without security my child.

[@TheSpicyLeg]

In my opinion (note: I am biased toward the Emperor being a creation of the shaman sacrifice theory), the Emperor is a warp entity from way back, created to protect humans by the psyker shamans who noticed the increasing danger of the Warp. They realized humans have an outsized effect on the daemons of the Warp, and particularly the Ruinous Powers themselves. This would also explain the Emperor’s single-minded desire to protect and preserve humanity, but not individual humans. It was this knowledge that he went into the Warp to receive, so he could make the Primarchs - again, warp entities made flesh. In this case, the Emperor is more like a particularly human emotion; the desire to survive, to press on, to adapt. That’s been true of all human history. That desire, used in the creation of the Emperor by the shaman, is what gave Keeler her power and gives Living Saints their power.

[@intuendaecivilization9365]

Yooooo, i never thought of the desire for survival to be an emotion, but it literally is more basic then the four chaos gods, yet it is greater then what emotions the four represent. Those who have turned to the chaos gods usually succumb to despair, malice or delusion, just before commiting to them.

[@TheSpicyLeg]

@@intuendaecivilization9365 Yes. For what else is despair, rage, greed, etc, than the result of a being that believes there is no way forward? Horus was turned, in part, because he feared that the Primarchs would outlive their usefulness and be sidelined. He believed there was no hope for them after the Great Crusade, which opened him to Chaos corruption. This is further reinforced by Eldrad Ulthran’s observation that humanity’s greatest strength is faith; faith that what they suffer through serves a hopeful purpose for the future. Correspondingly, a human that loses their faith is exceptionally dangerous. We all know the brutal things humans deal with in 40k, not just external enemies but from the Imperium as well. Yet they press on, keep fighting and suffering, just like the Emperor is doing on the golden throne. That kind of basic survival instinct would be super powerful in the Warp.

[@intuendaecivilization9365]

@@TheSpicyLeg Hell to the fuck yeah!

[@combinecommando001]

@@TheSpicyLeg If that theory were to be proven true, ironically, the very thing that Big E was trying so hard to snuff out would have meant the end of humanity had he succeeded.

[@TheSpicyLeg]

@@combinecommando001 Precisely. I haven’t yet made up my mind on whether the Emperor was merely mistaken by advancing the Imperial Truth or if he knew it was doomed from the start but had to pretend otherwise to gain the cooperation of the various human groups. After all, being deified to protect people is the oldest trick in the book.

[@izzymosley1970]

I like living saints I think the idea of someone becoming superhuman due to their will and faith alone sounds really cool. Especially since most super humans are superhuman because over something that physically happened to their body like cybernetics or becoming a space Marine I think that makes living saints really cool since they stand out so much in comparison.

[@mrwri]

Daemons of the Emperor as a benevolent Chaos God seems to be the path GW is heading for.

[@AlexRodriguez-dh7ic]

Oddly enough, the emperor is trying to avoid it

[@10011110011]

Kinda cringe, ngl

[@sakomanlee]

Benevolent! lol. Think I'd rather take my chances with Nurgle.

[@Fuzzycat16]

@@AlexRodriguez-dh7ic Then why is he constantly bringing back Celestine.... Sounds pretty hypocritical.

[@hominhmai5325]

​@@Fuzzycat16 he doesnt have newer models to play with 💀💀💀

[@intipontt7490]

Couldn't it be the same thing that happens with Slaneesh? It is my understanding that once The Fall occurs and Slaneesh is birthed, Slaneesh retroactively exists in the past as well. So when The Emperor sits on the throne and eventually becomes a warp entity,it retroactively exists in 30k.

[@korstmahler]

Yeah Arch forgot his Warp theory and it kinda shoots a lot of his position in the foot here.

[@bigdiccmarty9335]

​@@korstmahlerthe Warhammer "lore" is no easy thing to keep straight

[@theslayer1197]

Slannesh denons didn't exist before her birth

[@pierre-mariecaulliez6285]

Regarding to OG girl, I think there actually is an explanation : by this point, the Emperor had been kicking the Warp SO hard, that it naturally reeled and fucked off whenever He'd show up. Thus, when she invoked the Emperor's name, with His sigil right in the daemon's face, well it reacted as any other Warp entity and dissipated as to not confront the Anathema...

[@alextheman3330]

Please keep posting lore! I’ve been stuck in bed after a knee surgery so reading and listening to the 41st millennium is the only thing that’s been entertaining me Stay safe The emperor protects!

[@angry_zergling]

Arch is great - been listening to him at bedtime for years. I hope you feel better soon and recover quickly from your surgery! =)

[@MalGanish]

Be well and heal

[@alextheman3330]

Thanks guys My dog Tony has been taking care of me and I’m about to go outside and try to play fetch with him I just gotta heal then I can be working again soon!

[@jesperstrid4316]

I actually heard a pretty interesting theory from a friend of mine regarding this very subject; A possible reason for the Imperial Saints being able to exist in the materium is, simply because their God, the Emperor of Mankind himself, is located there. And flesh and blood humans can´t exist in the Immaterium for long since it´s not their "natural habitat". And on the other side of "The Veil", the same is true but opposite. The Greater Daemons of the Chaos Gods can´t exist for long in the Materium since it´s not their "natural habitat" and their gods are located in the Immaterium. The Saints and Greater Daemons abilities are directly linked to the closeness to their God and on what side of "The Veil" they are. It is this "Veil" that separates the Materium and the Immaterium, the solid plane of existence and the Warp, that hinders any creation of either side to exist for long on the opposite side... Material beings get their soul devoured or goes beyond insane (or both) and gets corrupted and changed, just like the ethereal beings of the Warp can´t stay on the material plane for very long before either running out of energy to keep materializing or being banished... I kind of like that theory.

[@leontitz66]

Another idea: maybe the saints can manifest everywhere "the light of the emperor shines" because he still is seated in reality. Demons are spawns of their god. So maybe big E is like a conduit, the warp big E creating saints and sending his energy through Terra big E. This would cover most demon-rules with daily Sacrifices, a warp connection... I mean, there is a literal hole to hell within the imperial palace next to Terra big E.

[@logangrimnar3800]

Warp travel can often send travelers back in time, meaning the Warp may have a causal connections to events at different points in time. My theory is that the Emperors manifestation as a Warp god/entity may have had an effect on the past. Perhaps the mere fact that his ascension was probable created an entity that manipulated real-space effects that favored its creation.

[@povilzem]

I kinda think that gods of Order and gods of Chaos have different rules of the Warp. Maybe Order is more in tune with the material world and doesn't require a constant rift to maintain itself?

[@harlandirgewood7676]

Would the Katan of the Nectons be considered Gods of Order?

[@micheal5973]

I go more with the ork and Eldar gods where they arnt like the chaos gods who get their power from metaphysical ideas but just direct belief from their followers. So things like the avatar of khaine, legion of the damned etc don’t feed don’t feed directly from the warp but from the belief of whatever species they belong to and can exist in an area where their followers are. No stories for instance of the legion of the damned showing up on an abandoned rock and reclaiming it. They only show up on an actual battlefield where humanity is all praying for a miracle

[@IsmaelSantos-iy4xi]

@@harlandirgewood7676 Probably considering they are gods of concepts such as death, deception, machinery etc.

[@mutegrab666]

@@micheal5973 Gork and Mork, Khaine etc still feed off of the emotions while also gaining power from belief as all gods are warp gods, the big four are warp gods.

[@fabienherry6690]

or they are more daemon prince in the sense that they are mortal ascended rather than a part of a bigger entity like greater daemon

[@markvt22]

Imperial Saints ..... has Arch his ego grown so much that he now made a lore video about himself for us?

[@lysytoszef]

Can Imperial Saints possibly come from the same source as Imperial "demon primarchs"? Like with Covus Corax who seem to act as demon primarch of the Emperor, but even Lorgar straight said he is not a demon but "something else"?

[@zacharyhawley1693]

The primaries are a fusion of both material and immaterial. So anything may go, it's perfectly inline for the chaos gods to gift primarchs power they already innately have. 😅

[@ohamatchhams]

@@zacharyhawley1693 I'm more subscribed to Majorkill theory of Primarchs being distinct Warp gods than something of chaos gods, with Daemon Primarchs represent Primarch bodies having their original Warp gods' souls ejected into lost in The Warp while their body and remaining brain/memory residues being used as puppets by any of the 4 chaos gods after said fallen Primarchs signed their Chaos-aligned pacts Even Throne-bound Emperor as a god said that provided with the right time, even daemon Primarchs can be redeemed through any mean necessary after he resurrected Guilliman (well, again) then sets Nurgle gardens on fire

[@CallMeMrChainmail]

The answer is no. Big E went into the warp, met the Chaos gods and then "stole" something from them which he used to create the Primarchs. Primarch physiology to completely alien to Astartes apothecaries. It's supposed to be well concealed by clever writing but reading between the lines it's pretty clear that the Primarchs are just genetically engineered daemonhosts. In a normal daemonhost it's an actual demonic entity that get's bound to a human body and takes control but in this case the daemon is doesn't have it's own personality. That's why every Primarch is a latent psyker. The daemon that makes them exist doesn't have it's own will so can't use it's psyker powers but Magnus, who was raised to tap into them can.

[@JohnSmith-tt3go]

Best explanation for Keeler is that the god emperor warp entity exists outside linear time similar to Slaanesh did back in M25. Warp storms cutting off travel existed thousands of years before Slaanesh was 'born'. Similarly, Keeler should be able to tap into Big E power ebvven before the internment on the throne.

[@CallMeMrChainmail]

The one thing Arch forgot was the complication of the Golden Throne. If the Emperor is still "alive" in the materium and his consciousness has merged or is merging with some kind of God Emperor warp monster in the warp then the presence of the Emperors physical body on the Golden Throne could act like permanently open warp rift but for his power only. Even with the Eye Of Terror and the Maelstrom open the Ruinous Powers struggle to exert their influence in the materium because they are entirely creatures of the warp and don't belong there AND they want EVERYTHING all at once spreading their power thin. The duel nature of this new (unconfirmed) pseudo-god would mean that it has a foot in both doors. Therefore if every living saint has a tiny, devoted, warp signature (their soul) the Emperor/God could use that as a focal point to manifest a greater demon, like pouring fuel on a candle. Another aspect of this is that when koas bois take a planet and give it to demons they literally pull the planet INTO the warp, the planet does not stay in the material plane and become a stable warp rift that the demons can use to move into the materium. This suggests that demons exert power by pulling things closer to themselves, whether it be a soul, an artefact or a location. In other words, a warp rift is a wormhole that shortens the metaphysical distance between a particular part of the material world and a part of the warp. Imperial demons wouldn't have to do this as one part of the God Emperor is both present and native to the material universe. Demon Primarchs of Chaos may have once been native to the material plane but their demonhood is contingent on power that is invested in them by a Chaos god and the chaos gods themselves have no presence in the materium. Finally, there is scale. Living saints are so rare compared to demons that the God Emperor could easily invest an awful lot more power in letting them manifest far from a warp rift than a Chaos God would be willing to.

[@Galster1908Dev]

To quote some huge whise man " I've tried being dead once, UNPLEASANT IT WAS "

[@iangwaltney2316]

New Arch content == a good morning

[@Xearrik]

I thought when a warp god is born, they sort of have always existed at that point or something in a way. So maybe a warp God Emperor exists in the past in some form as well. Wouldn't it be weird if that's who he talked to when he went into the warp before he made the Primarchs? He learned it from himself as a future god. 🤣That would be funny, lame, and interesting at the same time. That could be another reason he got so mad when people said he was a god because he didn't really believe the God Emperor in the warp and thought it was all a trick or something.

[@Ikdulo]

Return of SIGMAR!

[@Xearrik]

@@Ikdulo I don't even know the plot to the whole Sigmar thing. Is that what happened in Warhammer Fantasy? 🤣

[@IsmaelSantos-iy4xi]

@@Xearrik Sigmar was a barbarian hero type who got ever more powerful, then the End Times happen, Khorne stops holding back and beats the armies of the world AND the other 3 gods. Heros die, the world is destroyed. Sigmar survives clinging to the core of the world that was until he is saved by the dragon god who infuses him or something and Sigmar becomes a god. New worlds are created that are less than the world that was but they are once again overrun by chaos , until massive storms break everywhere and from lightning emeeges a host of golden warriors, the Stormcast Eternals, brave souls taken by Sigmar and reforged into fantasy marines, encased in armor made of Sigmarite, which is made from the remains of the world that was. When they die (except if they die in the realm of chaos) Sigmar takes them and reforges them, essentially replicating the daemons resurrective inmortality. Sigmar hates being a god, but he grudgingly accepts his lot in life because theres no other choice. Otjer shit that happens: Nagash goes from supreme necromancer to God of Death, the elves beat Slaanesh and shackle she wvo thirsts, freeing the elven souls she devoured, the dwarves survived the destruction by going steampunk and fucking off into space, the lizardmen go the way of the dodo but the Slann survives ysing their magic, including Lord Kroak, and wander the cosmos eating raw energy of creation, becoming gods of order and creating the Seraphon, which are basically angel lizardmen. The skaven survive by hiding in the tunnels between worlds made by the rat god, the hillbilly version of the webway. Despite the fan backlash over the... questionable... writing of End Times, Age of Sigmar is not bad. It lacks a lot of the fluff and charm of Fantasy but it is not bad.

[@Xearrik]

​@@IsmaelSantos-iy4xi Sounds good for the starting lore of a world, but also sounds bad for fans of the old lore. Sounds like some new writers came in and were like. This is boring, I want to do my own thing and just reinvented the whole world. I can see how fans would be so pissed. Why reinvent something that is already loved?

[@angry_zergling]

​@@IsmaelSantos-iy4xi Does that means Slaanesh never actually consumed the souls of the dead elves in her possession? I had thought they eventually got eaten after eons of torture, but it sounds like she kept them 'alive' indefinitely? Or were the elf souls that were rescued after the defeat of Slaanesh just the recent ones she hadn't gotten around to eating yet?

[@NetMoverSitan]

4:40 - As in Saint Drusus, the one that the Maccabian Janissaries are formed around. 12:16 - That sounds like a stronger version of the Penance Stare. 19:23 - Ah...as in a a sponge? 24:00 - Ah yes, the gamma irradiated Conan the Barbarian. 27:35 - Don't you mean Eldar Sacrifice?

[@graycard668]

I find it funny that Arch forgets Souls (with a captial S) exsist in 40k. Even if its just a fragment if the imperium apart of each human/eldar fueling it with your own eternal burining conviction could cause it to combust into sainthood. As a psyker probity isnt a human with a greater soul but thinner walls.

[@Gherichto]

Love this "Emps as a proto chaos god" theory. Legion of the damned as rank and file daemons, Saints as greater daemons and the nuns with guns as cultists, I guess 😂 Really is fascinating

[@Gherichto]

@@fantasticfrank85fantastic61 yeah... but as long as we're talking between ourselves, the magic can happen! The 40k universe is vast and I'm happy to let GW rot in the eye of terror

[@Gherichto]

@@fantasticfrank85fantastic61 sooooo... that's a stay on a Slaaneshi planet then? Or a nurgle one for the despair involved in watching that... thing that happened?

[@Gherichto]

@@fantasticfrank85fantastic61 Kathleen Kennedy facts: even the sickest f*cks of the 41st millenium think she goes too far

[@LucasSouza-jf1sm]

I personally don't see where the "proto" part comes in... I mean, he possessed Bobby G and burnt down Nurgle's garden, and Nurgle didn't even try to stop him, the only reason for it, in my mind, is that Nurgle knew for sure, he wouldn't last a second in a fight against Big E, even in his own home, so it's safe to say, Big E is vastly more powerful then Nurgle, so... Yeah... Not a proto god, but a full blown god

[@caiocbcn]

In one of Big E's representations, and the one i mostly prefer, his main objective is to see mankind evolve to the same status he has, just like how the old ones evolved as a species, but without sharing the fate of warp predators eating them, hence why he started to build the human webway and banish religion, to separate mankind from the warp. Now, the emperor was the most powerful psyker in the galaxy, but one can only imagine what he had in hands when he took whatever knowledge or power from the chaos gods, but we know that even tho astartes and primarchs are made with warp knowledge and do fall for chaos, they are also more resistant to it. Maybe, accidentally or not, the emperor kickstarted the next step for human evolution, with "psykers" far more powerful and capable of banishing the warp, while also using their powers separated from the warp.

[@RevantheBlack]

New theory: the Living Saints have been modified by Big E to be highly evolved humans (closer to an Eldar) via long distance biomancy

[@foxmcqwerty608]

i'm surprised the eldar witch didn't suddenly just combust when celestine showed up.

[@angry_zergling]

Well Celestine is basically just a daemon when it comes down to it (in theory) so she'd probably effect reality the same as any greater demon might. That's what I would think, anyway.

[@Kobold1650]

"Horizontally inclined saint" did not go where I thought it was going.

[@inquisitionagent9052]

Maybe that's what Bobby G saw when he met the Emperor on Terra. Not his father but a warp manifestation of him. Born from the worship of uncountable trillions. Maybe that's why he broke down. Because he realized that this isn't his father, but he must keep this a secret from everyone. Lest he send the Imperium into total anarchy

[@angry_zergling]

If so, it'd be really bad 'cause to Girlyman not only is that warp Emperor not his father, but it is a warp abomination antithetical to everything both Guilliman and the Emperor believed in and fought for. A disgusting warp-borne perversion of his father and wearing a mockery of his form.

[@demoulius1529]

Would be fittingly grimdark. I like this theory.

[@painlord2k]

As I wrote elsewhere, The Big Problem for Big E, is so many groups of people believe many different thinmgs of him. No one account, from what I read, of the effect of the adoration of the Mechanicum of Mars. There are innumerable Forge Worlds regarding him as The Omnissaiah, the Spirit in the Machine (Golden Throne, Empirium, etc.). There are the Orks believing he is a big undefeatable warrior that can not die. There is the human population of a million (probably more) planets believing he is the God of Humanity, that he Protects, that he Sit on the Golden Throne. This would explain his inconsistent behaviour. The other Warp Gods wear a disembodied concept or emotion or set of emotions. He is a material creature where innumerable different ideas and emotions are projected at the same time. And people wonder why he had splintered personalities and his actions are conflicting.

[@mpnuorva]

My take is that 40k has lowkey been going full Moorcock, and began implementing a new cosmic power to the Warp: Order, or possibly Law. It doesn"t follow the same rules as Chaos, because it isn't Chaos. Rather it's more like the WAAAGH or tyrannic hive mind, or whatever the Eldar do.

[@painlord2k]

I would suggest "The Emperor Protect" slogan is and was repeated so many times and so many humans (and maybe others) believe it that this has shaped the power of the Emperor himself in that direction. And because "The Emperor Protect" is not explicitly reserved for Humanity, its purpose (protection) is leaking, slowly, on other races that are not completely hostiles to humanity (T'au, some Eldar, few xenos accepted inthe Empire, some mutant not dangerous to others, etc.)

[@KrimzonFlygon1]

That Ork line…I now have this glorious image in my mind of one of Malcador’s lab assistants bringing up that possibility directly to Mal himself and Malcador doing a triple-take, wondering if the guy is being serious or just screwing with him.

[@korstmahler]

Daemons don't feed on pain and fear exclusively. They feed on strong emotions. The Warp has no time, wondering about time in the warp is pointless. The Eldar fell to Slaanesh via pleasure first,, then created Slaanesh as their emotions curdled and they moved into pain like they always would. There is no time in the warp. What would be contradictory here is not so there.

[@biggdawggnt7474]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate how smoothly this man rolls his r's? Polished glass for a voice I tell you.

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

At least you had the common decency to mark where the ad for Cancer Shadow Garbage ends. That's an improvement.

[@thesuminer]

In the game 40K Inquisitor there is a quest line dealing with Alpha Legion wgo started a cult worshipping what they thought was one of the chaos gods but was actually likely a c'tan. And in the journal of the Alpha Legionnaire who formed the cult after he divulges that the entity they've been worshipping has not been one of the 4 he says "It is older, much older. Older than the 4. Soon there may be 5 when the martyr awakens (it showed me that.)" I immediately read that as that Big E may become a 5th major player in the warp.

[@setsunatenma9467]

15:36 I mean time matters little to the warp being slaaneshi demons have been since the war in hevean despite slaanesh being 'born' in the fall of the eldar

[@Redtecho]

I can only hope that Eprhael Stern eventually will get decent rules.

[@mallry1]

The way you compared Euphrati Keeler to an orc i can imagine her screaming like an orc at that demon and the demon nopeing out of there

[@TheFifthHorseman_]

It would be more funny if she softly spoke "waaagh" and the Orks noped out on that alone

[@angry_zergling]

@@TheFifthHorseman_ Just whispering sweet -nothings- WAAAGH!!!s into their ears.

[@painlord2k]

@@angry_zergling Creepely whishpering "waaaaaaaagh" in his ear from behind.

[@samaritan_sys]

I like the Ork-like faith theory that Arch posits here. If Old Bale Eye can use an Ork prosthetic claw, that proves that other races can tap into WAAAGH! energy.

[@pensador6953]

One way for Keela to do that. Shes a Cleric

[@bahaha2012]

I’m surprised you didn’t chuck this theory out during the bit about euphrati, because I’ve heard you mention it in other videos, but time in the warp is especially weird when it comes to warp entities (like Big E). There is mention in one of the books that even though there is a set date that Slaneesh was born, from the other gods point of view they had always and never existed simultaneously for eternity. I think the reason why she could call upon Emps to banish a demon is because, as a warp entity, since he exists in the present and future in the warp, it would only make sense for him to be able to exist in the past as well

[@jaswilko1314]

The warp has been known to spit out fleets before they left, what makes the entity that is known as the god emporor any different that it reached back and touched euphratie. As for saints greater deamons makes the most sense as the legion of the damned don't abide by all the rules of deamons either, that they are entities of the warp and act differently is to be expected as the emporor is a different warp god

[@trajanfidelis]

Thanks for the video Arch

[@williamjeffery9653]

-Demons wouldn't care if you believed they existed because of cereal boxes MILK FOR THE KHORNEFLAKES

[@Quintarus1794]

I'd love some videos about individual living saints. I find St Sabbat in particular to be fascinating.

[@jonathansmithwick5703]

Bjorch really running up against the problem that you can't really "theorycraft" and logically deduce the truth of a story if you can't trust the *writers* of that story to have any idea what they just did. Still, I admire the spirit of the attempt all the same.

[@Nathan_Moor]

If I where to put my thoughts it into a metaphor: Throughout their life and actions is kindling. The emperor provides the spark, and the peoples Faith the oxygen. And if people consider Saints someone that belongs to the material realm, then there would be no reason for the warp phenomena that called "living saint" send them into the warp, demons after all 'belong' in the warp, and are 'sent back', a living saint is already where they belong.

[@Tyrogandio]

It could be that the living saints are daemons. it's just a matter of emotional energy. Chaos requires tremendous amounts of emotional energy - hate, rage, fear, lust, etc. - to enter reality. then require even more tools to remain - temples, even more sacrifices, etc. but the imperial living saints already have countless trillions of mortals believing in them, feeding their existence. the imperial daemons have a constant flow of belief letting them sustain their existence without a direct link to the warp, while the Chaos kind needs a high burst to manifest and then artificial devices to feed off the Warp

[@irateastartes1206]

I have always been under the impression that the Old Ones meddled in our species at some point, learning from their past failures they gave humans both a toned down version of the Waaagh field as well as direct access to the warp like the Eldar. Humans believe that machines have spirits and across untold quadrillions of people believing this it makes it true, by the same token if enough people believe that someone is a saint and the Emperor who seems to be directing this force allows it they are empowered to do his will and come back. Cain might come back at some point with some very embarrassing wings as a good section of the Imperium thinks he already is chosen by Big E he might just be forced to keep fighting the good fight.

[@raumograeywolf5477]

As in red paint really makes it really go faster

[@markointhesky]

The warp is atemporal, so its possible the 30k examples of divine intervention isn't due to the Emperor of the time or the nascent imperial cult shaping the warp enough for these things to happen, but the fully forged, worshipped by quintillions for ten thousand years God Emperor reaching back Of course this does leave the question of what happened in the "pure" time before the God Emperor open, or if the Emperor was always fated to be put on the Golden Throne and there was no "before"

[@omegawilliam95s36]

I like to imagine the God Emperor Warp entity as a massive figure of light, basically the Astronomicon but humanoid, constantly looking down at the universal affairs in total silence.

[@jupiterjunk]

Fantastic thought exercise. I'm sure most other people haven't given this ss much thought as you have, Arch.

[@barryward2128]

I like the anti-warp and the super rare breed of psyker ideas

[@pawebroszko4737]

space marines on fire are the biggest examples that shit hit the fan

[@Nemesis-lg6zf]

'We could know the demons existed because of cereal boxes for all the demons care' Khorne flakes?

[@TheAsvarduilProject]

Good job

[@DragonsController8]

Id love for someone to walk up to Angron and believe “He’s an Imp” and watch the demon primarch shrink to the size of a terrier.

[@angry_zergling]

One of those real small but mean yappy, ankle-biting dogs. Just with a nest of exposed butcher's nails coils crowning its head, a vaguely Angron-shaped snout, and misshapen, slightly overlarge teeth. And a red hue to its fur.

[@dankmemes7796]

Just a thought for the whole Deamons of the emperor . You mentioned angron needing temples and monoliths , well you would be hard pressed to find an imperial world without a cathedral , or an imperial ship , or an imperial titan hell they last two are sometimes cathedrals themselves . Not to mention the sisters of battle who saints tend to be will sometimes just drop a church from orbit . Also for a possible explanation of the first saint there are reports of slanesshi cults and artifacts predating slanessh . A weird sort of once a chaos god exists it has always existed timey whimy bs

[@painlord2k]

The point is "if someone could have thinked/imagined it, it always existed". Or, better, they actually started to exist the first time any entity imagined them. You knows, "One idea can not be killed". When they surge to power, the power exist in all times they existed. Technically, it is like time travel back in time interacting with the material world: You can not distinguish a particle going back in time left to right from one going up in time going right to left.

[@w4rd3n14]

i wonder if there was ever a situation where a inquisitor shots somone and they just come back as living saynts lol

[@patrickb1303]

Arch do you still play 40K at all or are you just about the lore? Just curious since I haven’t heard you mention it at all.

[@KaiserMaxim]

In the Fall of Cadia, when pylons started to work, Celestine lost all her powers. Hence, the saints are indeed drawing their powers from beyond the veil.

[@silenciosteve5513]

That "she might've been an ork" really caught me off guard lol

[@Glitch_Online]

'Bolter-B*tch' ... god i love this name.

[@Cpt0bviouss]

I like how even Guilliman agreed to himself that Mathew should be declared a Saint by the Eclesiarchy after the plague wars.

[@Fuzzycat16]

Mmmmm...Sororitas. I think i'll pull the trigger and get that Celestine model.

[@samyamamoto6613]

Always looking forward to any Arch content

[@korstmahler]

The warp is the warp, it doesn't have time. Euphrati can call on the God Emperor because he WILL be worshipped and thus, a God Emperor is already within the warp, able to respond to her exceptional strength of faith.

[@hankvirus9305]

Access to the Akashic record potentially too. Also explains how Orks gain access to information with more Orks.

[@jefthereaper]

I really do enjoy listening to your video's. You really have a great voice and way of speaking. 40K and Fantasy Battle lore are already interesting, but this makes it very easy to listen to. Especially with the occasional joke and jab here and there.

[@simonmorris9877]

It's a crime in my eyes that GW have not made a saint Sabbat model and canonised her in game lore. Throw in some ghosts guardsman and official blood pact upgrades and they would see their money printer go bbbbrrrrrrrrrrr. Change my mind.

[@angry_zergling]

Oh so the Sabbat worlds were named after a saint with established lore? I'll have to look into it!

[@simonmorris9877]

@@angry_zergling yeah if you research gaunts ghosts it's pretty well documented. I won't give spoilers but the first book the Saint is featured is called "honour guard" you are gonna have a blast with the ghosts series. Enjoy man, enjoy.

[@trixus4768]

About the Resurrection part: I think that no Saint has the power to resurrect herself and is instead resurrected by the big E when she is needed. For example, Saint Sabbath has been dead for thousands of years and wasn't resurrected until the Sabbath world crusade was in peril, just in time to turn the tides. What a timing...🤔

[@williamroberson5778]

There was a space theory that generalized went: To survive/prosper on a planet you need to be born on the planet. The saints might be something along that line of thinking? The were born to the material plane and while yes they return to the Astral they can return through a catalyst like a calling/climbing the mountain of your dead bodies, and be maintained in our plane by the faith of those around them and having been born to our plain originally.

[@primalj_2a433]

"BOLTER BITCH" 🤣🤣 I pissed myself laughing

[@justinbowers2749]

I do want a video on The Macharius Crusade and the Macharian Heresy

[@Zach-mw5so]

Arch could you please make public your Call of Warhammer campaign from 2015? I watched it all back then and it was what got me into Warhammer. Would love to see it again. Thank you :)

[@_gamer_panda_2195]

Arch I love you can you give us an update on the sabat worlds crusade

[@OniLeafNin]

I imagine he's getting artists and scenes into production mode. Idk for sure but reading Titanicus has me HYPED

[@tuckerkaup]

I like to belive big e was experimenting with warp gods, like the eldar before the fall, since he was experimenting with their technology in the form of the webway. and this god went a bit rouge on him giving the powers of saints to these people while he was alive and it was this god that may have morphed into the god emperor of today

[@williamralston4949]

Big E going into the warp and coming out more powerful. From our current knowledge and given the way the warp works (non-linear), if the emperor, is the new god forming. Would it be impossible for, once he was in the warp, to tap into that power? Since he was and always existed as a god in the warp such as slaneshy etc.

[@jendreg1935]

Summoning a new saint also requires human sacrifice in a way. The saint dies before he becomes one. When dying with a lot of faith this might work like a sacrifice.

[@notinspectorgadget]

Once a warp entity exists. They have always existed. So the first living saint having tangible magic power makes sense in the same way that slanesh having always been around does.

[@whisped8145]

The Warp got scared by the Fervor of Battle against it, and thus the Warp itself started believing in the Saints - thus the Saints becoming Saints.

[@benjaminwhite3292]

Having watched the Living Saints video done by Oculus Imperia, I find the box standard irreverence of Arch very funny.

[@Deamon93IT]

In before Sigismund turns back as Imperial Saint, because that would be amusing (just imagine how Abby would take the news 😂)

[@angry_zergling]

How would Dorn feel? Perhaps an anguished, furious cry heard from one side of the Imperial palace to the other: "SIGISMUUUUND!"

[@Deamon93IT]

@@angry_zergling first Dorn has to show up once again, as he is MIA (at least I would classify him as such). If he were to show up and Sigi were to return as Saint I would hope for a meeting between the two

[@kylami2501]

Oh my gosh, what if the Living Saints the reincarnations of the very Shamans that got together and created Big E to begin with? Possibly with power amplified because of that adventure in the Warp and coming out with more power after the Horus Heresy when the Big E's first attempt of making them exist from Science backfiring on him, and this is what he's doing in whatever state he's capable of?

[@OniLeafNin]

Long live Arch! Always a joy on fridays!

[@angry_zergling]

Arch is indeed best boy.

[@keeperofthetriforce7]

I was yelling star child at my phone when he was talking about how the emperor could be both a divine entity and the imperial truth guy.

[@drarsen33]

Warp powers transcend time...Maybe powers of the first saint came from emperor/star child as warp god in the future? We know that Slanesh influenced things in past before it was created, so ....something similar? God Emperor of the future giving power to the first saint in order to make sure that cult takes root and grow.

[@fren111]

The thing about Saints for me has always been, are they great deamons or deamon princes ?

[@ornu01]

When the barrier grows so thin that you can walk back into realspace with a little effort.

[@krissmus]

Gotta correct one point, Big E was on the throne when Keeler banished the daemon. Horus was appointed warmaster so the Emperor could be on the throne and focus on the webway, and then got stuck on the throne because of Magnus

[@RealSilvernight]

Magnus did nothing wrong, blame Lorgar

[@krissmus]

@@RealSilvernight oh i do, and i have my sympathies with Magnus, but he did screw up....big time, but hey so did Russ by deciding to genocide Prospero instead of just bringing Magnus in

[@RealSilvernight]

​@krissmus that's very true

[@elysiankentarchy1531]

@krissmus in Russ' defense, he did give an offer of surrender to take him into custody but was unaware that Magnus didn't get the message. Put yourself in Russ' position with the knowledge he had for a moment. You have been told to bring him in and are aware that for an order like that to be given it means something very serious happened, you send a message offering him the chance to surrender, you do not get a reply and you know he has a literal army of psykers and, while you do not know about the Chaos Gods, you lead one of the Legions that had to deal with a lot of Chaos stuff and are aware of just how dangerous that can be. What else was he supposed to do after Magnus supposedly ignored his offer? Sit around in space and do nothing while Magnus was getting his defenses ready? Keep shouting into the void while Magnus was summoning a massive daemon or something? Yes, you could argue that Russ could have kept trying to contact him. However, that comes from our knowledge as readers that Magnus wasn't preparing to fight, in fact, he was actually preparing to die, and didn't get the message. With the knowledge Russ had available to him, invading after not hearing a reply was a reasonable response. Yes, it was a mistake on Russ' part but his was a mistake that came from the fact that he lacked full knowledge of what was going on. Magnus' mistake was one from doing something he was explicitly told not to do in order to vindicate his methods.

[@markuskreutz9077]

Thou shalt not refer to the Adepta Sororitas as "Bolter B*tches," nor shalt thou go anywhere near our sisters during the time of their "Red Rage," lest thou wish to be the first human to enter orbit without the aid of a shuttle. 🤣

[@jarodnickell2841]

I think a better analog would be a demon host rather than a greater demon, where the faith and the righteous actions of the saint prepare their body to be the vessel for the power of The God Emperor of Mankind, and the ritual is completed by the martyrdom of the saint in question, the saint is then animated by the power of The God Emperor and do not need warp energies to sustain them

[@macromondo8026]

Bolter Bitch hah! love it Also really like the theory that they're Greater Daemons of the "God Emperor Chaos God" since well...in the Warp is Belief=Power so I can see it happening, even if it doesn't align 100% with how the Warp "usually" works because again, it's the Warp and BELIEF=POWER (if the Orkz can WAAAAGH! shit into working then so can others lol.)

[@alexandercross9081]

I think Euphrati Keeler can be explained by an idea I've had for a while. The Emperor was pushing the Imperial Truth to try and replace religion, and it did, but not as an alternative. The Imperial Truth became a religion, in the same way the Greater Good is a religion for the Tau, Euphrati was channeling that being when she performed her miracles. The Imperial Truth would in all likelyhood have pivoted to become the God Emperor over time, as the Imperial Truth fell out of fashion and Emperor worship picked up.

[@tenaciousb4731]

Why is it that when I see a advertisement at the beginning of a video, I always think of that topical 'Established Titles' Fad from a few years ago

[@potandpoliticswithmr.broph1420]

I posit they are not Greater Daemons of The Emperor but instead are more like Daemon Princes of The Emperor. They seem to me to be more akin to the elevated independent mortal Daemon Princes whose strength is individuality and ability to plan and strategize independently in unique and unpredictable ways vs the Greater Daemons who are more (Imho) like shards of the essence and power of their patron deity manifested. Just a thought, I could be wrong.

[@deerhawk7788]

Yeah, the legion of the damned would be more of an emperor demon

[@TBL-Badash]

Excellent as always Arch

[@Lsvn1957]

Arch, my friend, my traveling companion, my foxhole frater, Another delectable, detailed delivery of what, presented by others, can so often be a dry, dull and dour yet miraculously disproportionately dramatic dictation of dossier. Whenever will you find the time to serenade your supporters with such sublime song as the saga of the Vostroyan Firstborn?

[@reclusiarchheldrugen3440]

I've thought for a while that the Living Saints were Big E's next attempt at artifical Perpetuals.