i will always love when batman says stuff like "i intend to scare adults not children". i think a lot of people forget that a huge part of batman is taking care of kids so they dont suffer like he did. he has all these adopted kids and i mean do i even HAVE to mention ace? i just...love that.
@petrenicolae32826 ай бұрын
You did not have to mention his dog,but ok. I'm joking!I know the Ace you mean is a little girl
@TheFilmFanatic_Handle6 ай бұрын
@@petrenicolae3282You had me for a sec there 😂
@joshdunne87925 ай бұрын
One of my favourite comic panels is the Justice League investigating a crime and Batman is the only one to stop and comfort a kid
@Panhammer646 ай бұрын
we lost a true artist and genius when we lost Darwyn. No DC book can top New Frontier in my opinion, even down to the very structure of the staging of the panels on each page is pure brilliance. My only regret with the films is the story just felt rushed - but man, you put out another excellent video. This channel is the best.
@cory24776 ай бұрын
The movie was definitely rushed; it was better suited as a mealtime video, if anything.
@milkiassamuel7806 ай бұрын
Back then when we had comics like Watchmen subverting the superhero comic book genre, in contrast Justice League The New Frontiers comic is a wonderful celebration of superheroes and nature heroism, and Darwyn Cooke's art is phenomenal. I love how it interconnects storylines surrounding Hal Jordan's Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Flash and the formation of the Justice League against the Center. This movie is a perfect introduction for people who want to get into The Justice League. Im a big fan of Martian Manhunter, a really underrated hero and complex, very philosophical and introspective character and a founding member of the Justice League who's honestly the heart and soul of the team. He's got a really tragic backstory, revolting around Mars and suffering under a race war that killed his family and wiped out his species, all except him, so he and Superman share similarities as immigrants from the stars
@paulakroy26356 ай бұрын
I mean to be even Moore had done Similae stories with reconstruction post watchmen like Tom strong.
@jts91636 ай бұрын
I love hal Jordan in this. The ring proves that he isn’t a coward, he has the will to stand up for what’s right and not contribute to evil. Also everyone looking down on him gives him the opportunity to be a rebel, but unlike other interpretations he isn’t arguing against rational people or the other heroes that we’re supposed to look up to. Normally that makes him look like kind of an asshole because being strongheaded is a way to show his willpower. Here, it’s clearer that Hal Jordan has not just the heart of a lion but he equally has the heart of a hero. It’s clear in this story that he’s doing the right thing and his willpower is shown through him not bending or changing when he’s called a coward, because he is confident that he’s doing the right thing. His confidence isn’t unearned but some stories like make it feel that way.
@iananderson65306 ай бұрын
New Frontier might be the best distillation and representation of DC's core characters as a whole.
@dynaguy36 ай бұрын
It’s a shame Bruce Timm isn’t happy with the movie adaptation. I really enjoyed it and Darwyn Cooke even ended up liking it more than he thought he would. He became more involved with the production once he saw what they were doing was good
@Superlad94946 ай бұрын
It probably could have had a little more book scenes in it like Dick and Wally meeting and their race.
@MutantsInDisguise6 ай бұрын
Neither am I, honestly.
@paulakroy26356 ай бұрын
I think the cutting of the John Henry scence is an extremely poor look. It’s a very small part of the story but its probably the most impactful scene
@Superlad94946 ай бұрын
@@paulakroy2635 it is...especially since John Henry of Legend and his legacy character in the DCU now John Henry Irons Jr. is Steel's older cousin...and shows that a Superman was always around...John Henry Jr. like Irons III is a Man of Steel.
@MutantsInDisguise6 ай бұрын
@@paulakroy2635 John Henry was my favorite subplot of the whole miniseries. It was crucial to Martian Manhunter's belief in humankind, to the point of choosing to go back to Mars after he realized Henry was murdered by a white little girl. This was one of the many reasons I didn't enjoy THE NEW FRONTIER movie at all.
@ShauryaSriram6 ай бұрын
“Look at how happy everyone is!” Batman: 😑😑😑😑
@hawttub_22656 ай бұрын
That’s his Happy face.
@maarekstele29986 ай бұрын
The ending speech still gives me chills do this day
@LetsTakeALook6 ай бұрын
I just read this a couple months ago and rewatched the movie. Darwyn Cooke is really a master of the medium, delivering one of the best written and best drawn comics I’ve ever read all in one. I don’t know anyone else who has done a better job as a writer/artist on a superhero comic than him. I was also taken by the way he manages to homage and respect the New Frontier era as he deconstructs it.
@medianicko6 ай бұрын
Wow, the story is timeless. Very relevant to what’s going on the world. I could see Gunn using this for the DCU
@sammysstopmotionoas2004Ай бұрын
Rumor has it, New Frontier is going to be the story for his Justice League.
@alexandrefrauches1326 ай бұрын
New Frontier is not only one my top 5 favorite comic books of all time but is the story that embodies the best aspect that define the DC Universe as whole. Some people say that DC heroes aren't relatable like the Marvel heroes, that they are basically "modern gods" and "too perfect". New Frontier is the counter-argument to this idea, with the story spending most of it's time not on the heroes just fighting and doing big stuff, but on their personal lifes, who they truly are and their struggle to live in a time period that seems to reject their heroism. It's how they handle those dramas, from Flash overcoming his insecurity to J'onn and Farady bonding, that humanizes these characters and make them so appealing. In the end, the DC heroes aren't these "modern gods who live among humans", they are just selfless people who try to good in the world and inspire the best in others, not by demanding or forcing but by being an good exemple.
@SecretMagician6 ай бұрын
I really hope that James Gunn and Peter Safran's DCU will be building up to a modern day adaptation of The New Frontier. I've only seen the film, but it's a genuinely good watch (regardless of how rushed some parts are) and it could be a good timeless message for the new DCU to follow and be adapted in a new modern way that doesn't remove the impact of the original comic.
@alexandrefrauches1326 ай бұрын
@@SecretMagician I hope the same, specially when comes to him adapt Hal Jordan. I would love to see him having a similar character arc, being established as soldier who disobey authority and everybody thinks is coward but in reality he's brave man loyal to his good values. This could even be explore when the DCU introduces Sinestro, with him acting as contrast to Hal, being the soldier everybody expects Hal to be, but end up corrupt for embracing all these toxic masculinity aspects (ex: Agressive, overuse of fear and intimidation).
@alexandrefrauches1326 ай бұрын
@@SecretMagician Plus, the Center is a villain who Gunn could build up through the movies, with some characters in each project being under his influence or aware of his coming and trying to prepare Earth for his invasion.
@SecretMagician6 ай бұрын
@@alexandrefrauches132 I'm pretty sure the "mystery" Hal Jordan and John Stewart are investigating will be about the Center, considering Gunn said it'll be tied into the DCU.
@SecretMagician6 ай бұрын
@alexandrefrauches132 agreed, Hal's arc is something I could see starting in the Lanterns series and being further developed in future seasons/movies. Edit: I also think that the mystery Hal and John are investigating in the Lanterns show could be the Center, considering that James Gunn said that the mystery encompasses the entire DCU.
@LughSamildanach6 ай бұрын
You look at something as pure and hopeful as New Frontier, the view of America. Then you look at what that country is today and it only makes you sad. That spirit reaching for the newest frontiers is dead.
@litcomicsproductions53596 ай бұрын
In DC: The New Frontier, Darwyn Cooke brilliantly deconstructs the superhero mythos by placing these iconic figures in the gritty, turbulent reality of the 1950s and 1960s. Unlike the usual depictions of flawless demigods, Cooke’s heroes are deeply flawed and relatable, grappling with personal insecurities, moral conflicts, and the harsh socio-political climate of the era. The story’s backdrop of the Cold War, McCarthyism, and the civil rights movement strips away the idealized veneer of heroism, forcing characters to confront the same prejudices and fears as ordinary people. Cooke’s approach is refreshingly humanizing, showcasing that true heroism isn’t about superpowers but about making tough, ethical choices in the face of adversity.
@FunhausRyan6 ай бұрын
F'n love this channel. For the love of god please keep uploading!
@maladacav88194 ай бұрын
I know. It’s amazing! These videos are exactly the type of “dinner entertainment conversations” I would LOVE to have in real life…. Or in general. Love these guys!
@sophiadebar382Ай бұрын
13:32 I feel like…he doesn’t realize this includes Canada lol
@budthemanguy84152 ай бұрын
I just wanna say as an American today I find your take on this comic/movie really resonates with me now. I honestly teared up a little at the end there, and it makes me want to be hopeful for the future.
@mandatoryburnout6 ай бұрын
The through-line arcing from this through Superman and The Authority is an American arc that could only be seen from Brittania
@lightspaceman50646 ай бұрын
Hitting the mic when you said “f#ck you if you disagree with me” was the realest shit ever.
@SellavinAtoms6 ай бұрын
One of my favorite films because of how they treat the golden age superheroes.
@cptshelly6 ай бұрын
Genuinely i seem to find more and more reasons to love dc even more than i already do. Im a true beliver in america , even if were not perfect . Everything america represents is on display in this for better and worse. But its never perfect , like we our , howevr we can always strive to do and be better. Its perfect cause i love all the charcters but double on the representation of what america truly means, just forms a perfect drink.
@M4TCH3SM4L0N36 ай бұрын
Excellent analysis, as always, Leo. Thanks for sharing! The only thing I would nitpick is that white New Frontier indeed *appears* simple at first glance, it's one of the most intricately constructed stories to come out of the big two publishers this side of Perez's work on Crisis on Infinite Earths, and it's a miracle how Cooke was able to weave all of these rich threads together so seamlessly and make it look simple.
@austingomez96306 ай бұрын
I saw your profile with the fist punching the face and a DC lineup and not even the flash could have clicked on this video faster than me😅
@masterdef22096 ай бұрын
Glorified "first" comment?
@SamGaspacho6 ай бұрын
one of your better videos yet, and no surprise its on this comic/film. truly a piece of art, one of my all-time favorites.
@MMuraseofSandvich6 ай бұрын
I would posit that we in the US _have_ been asking ourselves, "Who have we become, and are we okay with that?" for a very long time, it's just that the halls of power (Washington, mainly, but also New York and Silicon Valley) have been resisting this question for at least as long. Sure, abandoning thousands of families during a massive hurricane was a much greater scandal than the CIA torturing prisoners, but both of those are the result of a system that values stock prices much more highly than human lives. I'm sure those in power understand that the world could be a better, kinder, fairer place, they just don't care, or worse, they _benefit_ from a cold, abusive, and evil world. As horrible this country has been, there has been progress since 1969, slow transitions towards more diversity, more fairness, more justice; it just doesn't seem that way to many of us who don't have time to compare and contrast, who are struggling to make ends meet. I'm sure that Mr. Cooke might be shocked that there was legislation that tried to make what the Bush administration did not-so-brazenly-illegal, but go back 100 years and we would probably do the exact same thing without media coverage or any kind of oversight or appeal. The fact that we even _know_ about Abu Ghraib, that someone risked their career to stand up and say "this is wrong" without being silenced, is progress (low bar, I know). Nixon would have tried to silence the whistleblower (and he likely would have succeeded), and the right-wing media and "intellectual" ecosystem is the result of many powerful people thinking he was always right. But Nixon and his friend Kissinger have a _lot_ of blood on their hands. If this country is to become a better place than yesterday, every citizen has to ask themselves, "Who have we become, and are we okay with that?" every election. And we all have to remember that lasting change for the better is never easy, nor does it happen in a year or even 4 years.
@ExeErdna6 ай бұрын
The problem is people have subverted the very ideal of justice and made it into revenge that all it is now. There's no diversity as in "do people whom worked hard and have interest in this have a space to grow here" It's more like "let me pool people who think like I do here so I cannot be questioned for my irony" They maybe visually diverse yet in thought and pratices they're far from it. People want to do good and have space to grow yet such things scare people who think they have power they fear being replaced they're like the rulers of old "They want to live forever" they don't care if they must destroy the world to get their goal. Overall the people that grew up reading those old comics became the very evil villains they once hated.
@JamesQPurcell6 ай бұрын
I don't totally agree that the film version is made better by having Batman present at the final battle. One thing I really liked in the comic was how in the end Superman and Wonder Woman are largely sidelined and Batman isn't there. And its down to the Silver Agers to take down the threat (and yeah, I realize Green Arrow is technically is a Golden Age character). By having Batman and Wonder Woman more active in the air and ground battle, it feels like a bit of the message of 'this new generation can do this' gets a little muddled.
@Superlad94946 ай бұрын
Wonder Woman being there is necessary for early league comics. Maybe they should have pulled a "Hippolyta to Diana" transition like mainstream was at the time before Infinite Crisis changed it to Diana going the route of the Hawks.
@christopherauzenne50236 ай бұрын
Totally understandable but regardless I like how both versions are larger not big 3 stories and instead largely focused on the other justice league members (manhunter, flash and green lantern) normally for JL they are more side characters with the big three being the main ones so them being the main characters is something I really respect. And regardless of him providing the atom he still does play a secondary role so it atleast held back on making him a big part of things
@randomaussie84986 ай бұрын
ok i absolutely love all of your videos, love the character essays and how deeply you go into the history and psyche but the fact that you just mentioned Mass Effect, PLEASE give us character essays for Mass Effect characters, im begging you. Would be amazing to hear your view on characters like Miranda, Jacob, Javik and Ashley and really any one in those games.
@hunterlangley82876 ай бұрын
This is still probably my favorite of the DC one off movies. It's beautiful.
@teh1archonАй бұрын
I think that was the only animated DC movie I've watched more than once and moved to tears.
@aikebakes5906 ай бұрын
been waiting on this one man! love your stuff, in fact, i'm an english lit & lang student at a level and i read my essays in your voice to make them sound smarter, keep it up!
@AchanCham_6 ай бұрын
Excellent job on this video. Thank you for your hard work and for sharing this.
@jaredgarcia86386 ай бұрын
Its funny. For a period piece,The New Frontier is relevant now more than ever
@alexisislas-gonzalez59914 ай бұрын
7:32 wait hold up is that…. God damn it all.
@rainbowsomeone6 ай бұрын
This is such a good dive into New Frontier
@tari1110904 ай бұрын
"DC The New Frontier" is my favourite DC book. "The Other History of the DC Universe" is similar in a sense so I like that too. It fills the role of what I expect from a "DC Next Frontier" sequel which could show the transition from the Silver Age to the Bronze Age. Although "The Other History of the DC Universe" goes up to the Modern Age too.
@barrylibowitz77536 ай бұрын
Robert downey jr as batman was such an interesting casting choice in this film! I was amazed by the nuance of the xbox acquisition of Blizzard, always imaginied it just like that in the comic!
@thenerddesk1112 ай бұрын
This was a fantastic analysis of the story, I’m doing a comparison between the comic and movie soon!
@cosmicmorty45086 ай бұрын
Please keep up with the comics video essays! It's the best thing, and youtube doesnt have enough videos about comics, by competent channels
@oshwaflz6 ай бұрын
Ive always been in love with what America stood for, and especially growing into my 20s its easy to be jaded with its flaws. But projects like the new frontier and superman vs the elite really make me emotional because it brings back a sense of America that feels forgetten in the modern age. Its proof that theres still heart here. That even though the way the values are represented harken back 100 years ago, the values themselves are just as valuable today. and it really gives me hope for the future.
@D4nielP6 ай бұрын
one of my favorite animated dc movies
@Nolanvoidmusic6 ай бұрын
I love the new frontier, it was the first graphic novel, I ever read.
@BenjaminSpencer-m1k5 ай бұрын
I think the reason why big smiles were so important in older times is currently we have flurode in our water and we suffer less malnutrition as they did in those times, just because you had the industrial revolution dont mean every one gets taken care of. Possibly in those times juat having decent teeth took a good amount of effort. People knew what it mean to value perfect teeth.
@daniellevy22726 ай бұрын
Perfect and beautiful
@jaredsnodgrass69946 ай бұрын
Ok, now you're just reading my mind.... I was thinking about this movie and how much I loved it as a kid
@captainoftheneverdie216 ай бұрын
Damn this video essay is brilliant
@TheDudeManWHAT6 ай бұрын
I've been hoping for you to make a video on this for quite some time. I have my tattoo scheduled for July 8th to get Cooke's Superman on me forever.
@EnergyBurst25 ай бұрын
I still remember when the movie came out and how cool I thought it and Martian Manhunter were, but given how long ago that was and the age I was I don't think I really grasped exactly what was going on as far as the non-alien invasion stuff was concerned, but then again this was almost 20 years ago so my memory of what I thought and felt back then isn't very extant and clear anymore.
@Kirkmaximus6 ай бұрын
Great video. I hope the story of peace, understanding, and exploration is embraced by the world. And it's great, that a Canadian gets freedom and the true meaning of America. Much like Nathan Fillion. However, it's also ironic, that Canada is known for causing some of the greatest war crimes when it was in wars. Sadly, I afraid, that if we had heroes & aliens living among us today, that they would similar prosecuted like in this comic...
@Aughlag6 ай бұрын
They looked so cool
@BradRedacted6 ай бұрын
Read the new frontier earlier this year and it was really fun and awesome! I love hal Jordan and John jones portrayal.
@ty-guy44586 ай бұрын
Darwyn Cooke is the greatest cartoonist of all time.
@oreo_frito6 ай бұрын
Low feel James Gunn’s DCU could learn from this adaption and the DCAU
@Hammerheadcomedy6 ай бұрын
Dark Knight 1 kind of does end up like "we fooled y'all" and working on the ins and outs of the govt... then the sequels...happenned
@tylerbertram70656 ай бұрын
Pretentious, what are your thoughts on X-men 97 because I think it's the best X-men cartoon in a long time.
@legotimefuntime54386 ай бұрын
I wish we got move stories. It was such a great one. Incorporating real life events really helps tell the story.
@MaigenMaylight6 ай бұрын
Call me corny, but if I was the president I'd introduce a second country flag: the House of El symbol. It'd be fitting to have a powerful and recognizable symbol be associated with the country directly, as the original American ideology is the whole reason it exists in the first place. Not to get overly political, but when I look at the US today I see nothing but a country that the majority of the world hates because of moronic decisions made my people in power. The truth is, we *have* lost sight of what this country was originally meant to be; I can't help but feel that decades of corruption and violence have stained us to an almost incorrigible degree.
@theblackdagger4566Ай бұрын
God I love New Frontier so much
@takenname80536 ай бұрын
Haven't watched this one yet, going to now!
@pedrocatoira26956 ай бұрын
Friends not food
@QNPMEDIA6 ай бұрын
Ditching John Henry's storyline always proved to me that the animation department lost the plot when we lost Dwayne McDuffie.
@skyfallen27756 ай бұрын
I swear British boys are always so kind, chill, interesting and adorable
@colinchilton77725 ай бұрын
I feel like if they just adapted this into a JL live action film I’d be happy
@jonmckaye6 ай бұрын
This might your best one yet
@sahilhossain82046 ай бұрын
Lore of New Frontier: hard times for good people momentum 100
@stonesniffer466 ай бұрын
Banger video
@jonahwilliams13316 ай бұрын
Ah yes, the movie that traumatized me as a kid.
@thewatcher48256 ай бұрын
Recommended you read JLA:year one aswell if you haven't already.
@Jordan-ii4ip6 ай бұрын
I find that a lot of my opinions and values differ from yours, but we also have a lot in common. You seem to heavily value community and unity and collectivism (An optimistic, non-authoritarian collectivism), whereas I've settled into an individualist mindset (NOT Ayn Rand individualism). I don't know if it's Nature or Nurture, but I've always been a loner, I haven't always enjoyed it, but I'm fine with it. I often avoid things that are popular, because it disgusts me that people are so obsessed with being popular, even adults who should know better. Just an observation, I love hearing other perspectives and your videos have helped level me out a little.
@juliagoodwin95106 ай бұрын
What happened to Steel in this comic makes me sick. Normally I'm opposed to hurting children... ... _BUUUUUUTTTTT_ ....
@SecretMagician6 ай бұрын
Childhood indoctrination to racism. It's truly a shame.
@pedrocatoira26956 ай бұрын
Live and let live
@unitedstatesofamericareal6 ай бұрын
Good movie, i like it a lot
@TevyaSmolka6 ай бұрын
i love new frontier
@praiseakinnola53826 ай бұрын
yummy video
@B.coffin6 ай бұрын
Really great video.
@emperorluffy60015 ай бұрын
I fucking hate this movie because it ignored Diana's relationship with Clark and inserted Lois for literally no reason.
@JD_17766 ай бұрын
I read this as new Fortnite :(
@coolymchee82975 ай бұрын
You should make a video about kid cosmic season 1
@RobertoTheOriginalManFromTheA6 ай бұрын
The American story everyone should see!..As Supes says..Today..there's no Democrats or Republicans..which rolls with me...as I'm a indy..in most things..
@saucyserg28006 ай бұрын
👏👏👏👏👏
@pedrocatoira26956 ай бұрын
💛💙✨
@KingNerdius4 ай бұрын
Good video
@Patrick-wl6pw6 ай бұрын
Love film
@tylerferguson31936 ай бұрын
Hope you'll have a good day
@aurahoneydew96072 ай бұрын
It does watchmen but better.
@yoboimichproductionsinc.29486 ай бұрын
Bro can i get your playlist
@mahatmarandy59776 ай бұрын
Wasn’t it Korea, not Vietnam? Wouldn’t let her talk about what she saw in Korea?
@joelpartee5946 ай бұрын
It was Viet Nam. The Hal Jordan scene was in Korea.
@Riftrender6 ай бұрын
Love your country, not your government.
@Maikigai6 ай бұрын
12:19 “All lives matter.”
@royxl95066 ай бұрын
Notti gang no osama
@thejerseydog6 ай бұрын
I understand that reducing John Wilson's storyline made sense if one is trying to tighten the script to focus on the core conflict with the centre, but I still feel that doing so lessens the message of internal corruption. The result is a story about just superhero persecution, which could have been stronger and more broad and socially conscious if there had been an actual, real, non-fiction marginalized group suffering from unchecked paranoia and systemic/institutionalized hatred
@paulakroy26353 күн бұрын
Perfectly summed it up.
@aroccoification6 ай бұрын
I mean John Henry is just as black as John Jones Henry is supposed to be a robot just like John is an alien
@BenjaminSpencer-m1k5 ай бұрын
Well, not one of us americans can answer that we are even subject to it. Im rather conservative and the child and grandchild of soldiers. Were actually a diffrent breed than most these people. Especially if you come from lifers, guys that did alot .ore than 4 years, all enlisted men. From the civil war (irish that were conscripted off the boat because they were poor because they were Irish, i know my family history also german englis and said to have native American, ive seen pictures of my Irish ancestory and they were pretty light men, im somewhat darker complexion but i know im still part irish. Most of us if we look back in our blood got whole mixes. So we like to consider ourselves tolerant..and on the other hand all the family was also clergy of some type, my greatgrand father Hileman who was the son of a german immigrant and a native american women. Was actually we well to do mixed man,he was inheriter of his uncles estate were tolking in modern days $ millions. His mother was supposedly a young girl who went on the "Trail of Tears" . Raceisim is a work of fiction belived and beloved by fools.
@masterdef22096 ай бұрын
Gobless merika
@MutantsInDisguise6 ай бұрын
Not as good as the miniseries, despite Darwyn Cooke being involved in this film.
@Maikigai6 ай бұрын
I guess my original comment was a little too real for this channel…
@johnlopez90146 ай бұрын
Canadian: we never attacked another country ( laughter) Canada takes first nation’s lands, relocate them n creates laws to keep their territories limited 🫢
@redleaderantilles12635 ай бұрын
Also they love joining the US' coalitions. Like just cause the US took the lead doesn't mean Canada didn't attack Iraq or Afghanistan. And earlier assisting the UK albeit not as an independent nation in the Boer war, WW1 and the Soviet Union. To say nothing of their conduct in Somalia
@dylanswift51856 ай бұрын
That last quote is funny considering the horrendous actions Canada performed against the native tribes of the region and still do to this day.
@DrSimian6 ай бұрын
I loved the original series. The movie dispensed with subtlety, nuance, mystery, and boiled the whole story down to a big, dumb fight.
@christopherauzenne50236 ай бұрын
I think the problem came down to how animation is seen/budget?, specifically the belief an animated film can’t be longer than say 1 1/2 hours (or they only had the budget for that long) if they could have done say 2 or 2 1/2 hours film they could have added more of the subtlety and the story with John Henry/the losers and such
@DrSimian6 ай бұрын
It really should have been a miniseries.
@R0B0GAMEIR6 ай бұрын
JFK must be rolling in his grave because of the title
@eep54116 ай бұрын
First!
@masterdef22096 ай бұрын
kus
@kintsuki996 ай бұрын
While I think we can all agree that judging someone by their skin color is stupid we also have to realize that doing it by their character is obligatory. As it goes nowadays the problem is very rarely discrimination because of race but people claiming that it is that when in reality there are many other reasons for it.