Limiting the Woke? | Christopher Rufo | EP 335

Ep. 335
Watch Jordan Peterson's "Vision & Destiny" on DW+ bit.ly/3KrWbS8
Peterson draws upon his extensive research and relatable real-life experiences to illustrate how to develop attainable goals for intimate relationships, meaningful friendships, and your career. Transform the chaotic potential of the future into actuality - with a vision.
In this episode, Dr Jordan B Peterson and Christopher Rufo discuss the creative left, the world of documentary filmmaking, how ideology has seeped in and taken hold of academia, and how Rufo among others are taking an active role in fighting back through legislature.
Christopher Rufo is a senior fellow and director of the initiative on critical race theory at the Manhattan Institute. He is also a contributing editor of City Journal, where his writing explores various issues, including critical race theory, gender ideology, homelessness, addiction, crime, and the decline of American cities. Christopher was recently appointed to the Board of Trustees at New College of Florida by Governor Ron DeSantis. Every week, Christopher is creating new videos on his KZbin channel exploring these topics and more. You can find them at / @christopherrufo .
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Subscribe to Christopher's channel on KZbin: / @christopherrufo
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- Chapters -
(0:00) Coming up
(1:20) Intro
(3:04) Left to right, education and life experience
(7:45) The Pareto distribution
(11:48) 5 years observing inequality
(13:24) Ultimate irony
(14:19) Presumptions of Marxism and the left
(16:18) When distribution is the miracle of progress
(19:12) Money does not solve poverty
(21:55) Being shunned from the documentary world
(24:50) The open arms of the right
(29:01) Watching what you say
(31:00) Under leftist institutional control
(33:30) Trait openness and perverse orthodoxy
(37:30) Rely on what's implicit, clarifying ethos
(38:20) Rush Limbaugh, Babylon Bee, Aristophanes
(41:15) The new world is run by Berkeley grads
(43:10) Identity politics: the new Marxist experiment
(48:02) Intersectionality or caste system?
(51:50) Derrick Bell and racial pessimism
(55:30) Conscientiousness, white supremacy
(58:20) Kimberlé Crenshaw, causal pathways
(1:04:24) Ron Desantis, legislative moves
(1:09:50) Institutional capture
(1:13:00) The biggest problem facing academia
(1:14:10) Change must be written in law
(1:19:00) Moral framework and defining change
(1:26:45) Quantifying merit, hiring quotas
(1:31:00) John Locke would be appalled
Dr Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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[@JamesG12]

"At its heart, wokeness is divisive, exclusionary, and hateful. It basically gives mean people a shield to be mean and cruel, armored in false virtue." -Elon Musk

[@cookies4isaac522]

Spot on

[@lurksnitchtongue8986]

​@@justinsnelling8053 Not at all. Doing something that is bad, even with good intentions, is way worse than doing nothing.

[@triciagalloway9799]

Like religion does. Oh right, it IS a religion.

[@6791mp]

Wow, awesomely phrased👌

[@brianself3352]

Mooppn no. N n. N. I’m ze😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@Crouton_master]

I’m 16 years old and in high school and ur speeches open up my mind to so many things that I can see in my own environment

[@3blu]

Iam so glad to hear a young person with an open thinking mind ☺️ stay true to yourself 🙏☮️

[@lindaloo206]

Little WISE one, you are. May more come our way.

[@stevennewman4778]

Always question ideas and research them the best you can. Never take someone’s word as absolute truth.

[@icarusjumped2719]

Stay strong. Dont let them beat you down. You have your own mind to think. Never let anyone take that from you.

[@randyfender6122]

Good for you! Think. Speak out what you believe. Push back against that which you believe to be false. Refuse to speak anything that is not true.

[@barbaragray7883]

I am a retired special ed teacher who worked in an inner city school. As teachers we fought like crazy to help our students to see a positive future for themselves. Many of our students were only in special ed because of extreme problems in the home - homeless, parents with mental health issues or drug addiction who moved15 times in the 8 to 12 years that the children were in schools. Now the schools are destroying all the work we did to help these students learn how to establish self-efficacy.

[@maguszeal5818]

My wife was in that category. She's deemed mildly mentality retarded. But further study of her past reveals her opioid addicted mother moved the family every 6 months to protect her addiction utterly destroying her learning processes. She literally doesn't know how to learn. And she fears much of the process due to peer teasing. Her biggest hurdle is fear. Not lack of knowledge, not lack of ability. Fear.

[@maguszeal5818]

P.s. can you recommend any tools(books?) or techniques that might help me help her. As it is we take it slow and easy and emphasize on her preferences. I reward her reading, (my belief is this is a primary pathway to knowledge) by giving her increased spending money.

[@royjacobs1204]

The best performing school in England is an inner city school in the most deprived and diverse area of London, Wembley, Brent. It will not countenance a victim mentality at all Students now attending Oxford, Cambridge It's called the Michaela School, the founder and head is Katherine Birbalsingh, lots of content on KZbin, check them out

[@mattmcewen1955]

As a parent of kids in the Florida School System, I am THANKFUL and APPLAUD the work you Christopher Rufo and Governor Ron DeSantis are doing for my children! Please keep us parents apprised of anything you need us to show you support on. Thank You, as always Dr. Peterson for your great host of guest you present. ...you always seem to find a vast majority of great thinkers and overall.... just COMMON SENSE! 🙂 God Bless you both and pray for America and the rest of the people in the world, we can all overcome this evil trying to prey on our children.

[@bobward9712]

Wish we had more people like your wonderfull GOVNER up here/ CANADA is now run by a COMIE TURD DICTATIOR.

[@No-nl8jn]

I say Thank you from Danmark.... sone ot will hit here..... 🌹🌹🌹 Thank you.

[@synaesthesia4183]

Well said

[@Nameemee]

Yes!! Thank you as always Dr Peterson!

[@sandman6802]

Wish I lived in Florida.

[@thevagabondsageinthewoods]

I left college because something happened that pulled the rug out from under my world and I was not even the actual victim. This thing had a rippling affect. So later, after I moved to another town, I re-enrolled in a community college to try to finish some sort of degree. My professor spent the first 20-30 mins of each class pontificating his anti-Trump rhetoric. When he pointed at me and asked me to recite a joke I had heard recently, preferably political, I stood up, gathered my things and stated”this class!!!” I walked away from any degree because I just realized the universe had other plans for me.

[@lindabaker7363]

Well done. Wow what a great answer!!! Bravo!!!!

[@cherrysbookreviews]

Thank you for standing up too Vagabond. It gives me some hope.

[@andrewsaint6581]

Well done. Takes guts.

[@carollen5633]

I must say you're a brave one. Many years ago I kept hopping from different universities. Most of my life was spent in libraries...away from bias and segregated professors. Also found academic night courses, those are great with older teachers, worth considering. The universe will always be my diving board.

[@cynthiagonzalez658]

So sad what happened to educational institutions. I went to get degrees in 3 different countries & I learned a lot, not just facts& science, but how to think & elucidate fact from fiction. It's really tragic where we're going, but it's not too late. We can still turn this around

[@mercychoke4475]

Rufo is a really smart young man. He gives me hope for the future. We need more bold, intelligent, thoughtful young people like him. 👏

[@crocodilegrundee4514]

I agree wholeheartedly. Another smart one on this subject is Dr James Lindsay. He has the ideological roots of all this Marxist cult down to a T. Ought to check him out if you haven’t already.

[@LiberalsHateFacts]

THE CONSPIRACY THEORY . It has been clear for a while now to the Elites, the Governments, and others with a need to control things, that more and more people would skip their daily brainwashing session with legacy MSM and obtain their daily News directly from the Internet. As that process progressed, they would lose their control over We the People and that terrifies them. Their strategy to deal with this is multi-pronged and includes: . • Quantitative easing, aka the printing of money: deliberately creating Inflation, ever increasing prices, and eventually crippling debt for all but the wealthiest, • Climate change policies: eliminating/reducing the use of fossil fuels and fertilizers, generating food shortages, and creating hunger and starvation in some parts of the world, • Digital currencies to track your every move, • Censorship: largely enacted by bought and paid for legacy MSM organizations, and enforced by Government, • Lawfare: use of the judicial system to enforce the will of government, • Ignoring precedents established in Common Law over centuries in favour of new progressive ideologically based legislation, based on Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity, • 15-minute cities: limiting your mobility, tracking your movements, • Taxes: taking away part of the wages and hard-earned profits of ordinary citizens and then returning some of it through special programs simply places greater control over people’s lives in the hands of the government, • COVID-19: the lockdowns, the masks, and social distancing, • Divide and conquer strategies: keeping people from uniting and fighting for common causes such as their Rights and Freedoms. . But of course, the fact that the common thread running through all of this is Control, Control, Control is pure coincidence. Anyone who questions that is obviously a Conspiracy Theorist. Politicians respect the will of the people and know that we need help with figuring out what is in our best interests. Politicians understand our needs better than we do, and they are here to help us figure out what we want. Any suggestion that successive governments in Western nations have become increasingly Authoritarian and are intent on implementing Totalitarian states is just plain silly. . Well, maybe. In any event there is little point in continually describing problems without ever defining Solutions. Constantly adding to the Fear and Apprehension that people feel without telling them what they can or should do is likely creating as much harm as good. . In 2023 you should spend more time listening to the likes of Jordan Peterson, Bari Weiss, Dave Rubin, Christopher Ruffo, and maybe even a little J.P. Sears. .

[@martinkrotunas5833]

You won't get them. Social media has bolloxed our society. I'm in UK and the damage seems to have been done. I am a socialist but socialism was never directed towards the crazy idealism that we see now. I don't see any connection between this identity thing and oppression of the working class.

[@okgroomer1966]

Problem is so few exist. The state of our youth is a disaster. Many have zero social skills, zero common sense, and now very little formal education of value. Try talking to the youth especially close to cities. Rural kids are mostly still doing OK in comparison but they're a very small minority

[@categoricamente1753]

He is not. He has a completely false understanding of what drives culture. ''The law sets the moral rule''. Thats completely false can be demonstrated by very basic and early findings on the classical philosophy, such as in plato or aristotles. The law, when a good law, resonates with good cultural traits. How can something that depends on the existence of something else come first than the early necessity for such thing to exist in the first place? Now...i am not saying he is evil, but he is not bright at all...and thats such a sad thing. The baar nowadays is so low, that cosmetic intelligence is seen as actual intelligence.

[@lesasmith4692]

Thank you both for your most inspiring conversation. I am Canadian and as I witness the incessant creep of wokeism in society, I am afraid of what our collective future might hold. I lose sleep thinking about it, but you give me hope for brighter days ahead.

[@shashabuenaflor593]

Same. I thought i was liberal coz i was very open-minded growing up esp in a conservative predominantly Catholic society.. i felt repressed. But when i came to Canada 7yrs ago, i realized i have conservative ideology. How ironic 😂😅 and these wokeism is amplifying my conservative view 😅

[@davidfong1565]

Depending upon how aggressively the powers try to push this woke agenda on the people, there could be fireworks. There are people, just as in the American Revolution, who will only be pushed so far.

[@barboglesby2162]

I pray for both our countries. I grew up right across from Canada. It breaks my heart to see it become so captive by the WOKE.

[@alisonperry1786]

PLEASE find a way to not loose sleep over ..that means they are succeeding g in their misguided ignorant mission.. peace love brown rice

[@ggwoman]

Resist the Tyranny. Wokeism is a laughable construct of the parasite class.

[@grandisdavid]

I work in academia, I confirm: 100% true. A million thanks to both men, they're brilliant!

[@truthmatters7805]

In a world gone mad it's so refreshing listening to a man with more knowledge in his tear ducts than 95% of the global population

[@jeffgojail]

I think Mr. Peterman would be a lot happier if he just told Miss Piggy how he really felt

[@Sherlock245]

Cause America is addicted to woke and China and Iran is getting stronger each day.

[@i_smoke_ghosts]

@@jeffgojail do you mean Johnson D. Potterman?

[@jeffgojail]

@@i_smoke_ghosts I refuse to use his pronouns

[@i_smoke_ghosts]

@@jeffgojail all good 👍

[@retonia40]

So refreshing to see Jordan's guest Chris so young, so articulate, so spirited in his pursuit and in this discussion. Another great example of how to lose one's life to gain it, hard but rewarding.

[@LivingBGLegend]

The more who People who can retain, think, and speak the better and we all have work to do to spread the message of what is good and confront the ever stepping... what would you call it?

[@metoceedeelee]

he literally wouldnt answer JP questions though lol. How are you going to measure merit, do you have experts that can help you determine job dependent merits? And he just goes back to whats wrong now.

[@bvsteel990]

young ? lol rufo is 38 not 20 something

[@virginia9620]

@@metoceedeelee He did answer it, go back to 1:31:00, he said they are working with academics further it well be part of year end evaluations. If needed it well be fine tuned.

[@stephaniesmith6643]

Thank you for this thorough uplifting conversation about Christopher Rufo’s background and his current work. I learned a lot and believe he’s definitely on the right track. I wish him GREAT SUCCESS! -From a concerned Black American 🇺🇸

[@queenwasabii]

Dr. Peterson , I’m sorry you’re being bullied to leave Canada 🇨🇦 for your voice! You got this. Don’t let them win you! I’m a Northern Alberta Girl , from back in the day… And if You can tolerate the winters and isolation. You can make it through Anything! Keep moving upward!

[@jimhabsfan]

I don't believe that Dr. Peterson will leave Canada to live elsewhere. I suggest that he actually run for P M.

[@unityinHim]

So glad you're taking a stand against the insanity taking place in this country! Thank you!

[@GaryG63]

Are you making a stand

[@mattyjay8896]

Absolutely.. Dr Peterson is one of my favorites! So refreshing to see someone use logic, and rationality in this day in age!

[@alciozc3591]

The entirety of western world

[@unityinHim]

@@GaryG63 You bet I am! It's just so great to see a public voice take a stand at the risk of his reputation. To me that's a real man!

[@foxtrotjulietbravo5536]

@@GaryG63 - Aren't we participating in taking a stand when we watch thoughtful videos such as Dr. Peterson's and Chris Rufo's?

[@RangaLord]

I just appreciate Chris and how happy he looked at the constructive comments from Jordan at the end. He was genuinely pleased with Jordans response, as he should be. But the child-like reaction of a student being praised by a tutor was heart warming. Good work to Mr Rufo.

[@profeh3346]

As a retired high school teacher - first this is long overdue and I loved it! Will listen again. My first question is how can we support you from Oklahoma? Second question is how will you orchestrate the teacher evaluations? In the past certain language is required, in addition to the referenced learning styles (and other research that did not help our students learn but helped some college professor sell a textbook.) The evaluations are a combination of the state and the district and are huge influence on teachers and the structure of each class taught.

[@spencerace7167]

I'm glad you decided to speak with Christopher Rufo; he's doing really important journalism concerning child indoctrination, which is, in my opinion, the biggest threat to the well-being of this country that we've seen in a long time.

[@danlam9906]

Graduated= gradually indoctrinated

[@LJolie-jz8go]

I agree, it is the biggest harm on humanity

[@johnmalcolm3116]

Think of the vhildren , has been flipped for awhile but really stood out in my opinion with the plandemic mandates .yup this has to stop

[@SBF334]

The world more like it, it's crazy out there 😜

[@amyrenee1361]

I agree! Growing up, I was indoctrinated by the church, and it has taken me years to undo those beliefs. The cure: using my college education to read the entire Bible. The church narrative simply does not fit the texts. It's no wonder, for they introduced Christianity at a time when most of the population was illiterate. And now, most people have not read the entire Bible, and because they had blind faith before actually reading the book, cognitive dissonance interferes with their ability to interpret the texts accurately. It's the only literary text in the world where the rules of language are tossed out to justify error in its interpretation. In reality, the woke left is a mirror of the religious right. Both are delusional.

[@hopeful2665]

Wow, Christopher Rufo you have really exceeded all expectations. So articulate, so forthright, and so thoughtful and strong. You are restoring America at its foundation. Keep being careful and thank you for your incredible preserverence and sacrifice. What a factastic dialectic between the two of you. Some of the best content and dialog you could ever hope for.

[@lesliepage3886]

I’m impressed with his background. He has the experience to take this on and tackle any garage DEI proponents throw at him.

[@senorpoodles1755]

@Warlock Wealth distribution isn't a problem, and regardless, the Left isn't concerned about that. All they're concerned about is promoting racism/hate.

[@tomcollins1441]

I've never heard anyone put thoughts to words so eloquently and rapidly as Jordan does

[@mariejustme]

This was a fascinating and greatly needed discussion. I had a few questions as well and am happy to have had them answered. Thank you Christoper Rufo, along with the Gov, for taking on this crucial fight for our children, and our country.

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

By raising up China and India they take away he cannot make opportunity from the poorest Americans

[@georgeseabury5788]

As a conservative high schooler I do see that many people part of my generation follow all these extreme left movements religiously like "gender is a social construct." Also you are completely right about how many leftists will just completely ignore and refuse to speak to anyone who slightly differs from their view. Also love your 12 Rules for Life books.

[@vladtheinhaler8940]

The generation of the 1960's are mainly responsible for this far leftist ideological infection of all institutions.

[@fx6281]

Stay strong dude, it'll be harder in college as those "professors" have full free reign on what they're teaching. Also, as you said, in HS they'll ignore you or refuse to converse, in college/work, they'll go further and aim to destroy your reputation, possible careers and your life if you verbally disagree with them. I'm not saying be a coward and stay silent, but be smart with picking your battles and set up alternative streams of income, education or work before doing so. Sometimes it can feel as if you're alone but note 48-52% of people agree broadly with you every 4 years, you're just stuck at an age where you're in institutions that are dominated by people that don't agree. Or skip college all together and learn a trade, nothing wrong with that and many are highly paid and highly rewarding internally

[@jasonwismer2670]

Good that you're seeing this. But do one better. Realize that the right also will religiously follow movements and ignore and refuse to speak to anyone who slightly differs from their view. Do not identify as a conservative or liberal, but as a thinker. You will naturally tend conservative, but you will not be captured by the ideologues of other either side who work very hard to ensure you follow without thinking.

[@jacksonblaze423]

When I was in HS I was a new immigrant to America who learned English quickly and got into a good university which was not as fucked up as they seem to be now. I got lucky to some degree, but I sure wish I could hear this kind of dialogue when I was closer to your age. Jordan and Christopher are smart people who followed their own path. I essentially did as well, but over time, due to necessities, I got a bit distracted though not lost. The necessities included my family needing support after my father died, so things got real pretty fast. As far as I can tell everybody had these periods in their life when things fall apart but don't give up and with emotions use a lot of common sense.

[@rebelraccoon9018]

@@DD-jn1mp your soul is worth more than your reputation 👏

[@ban-draoidh318]

I have no words to describe how deeply I love this man. ❤❤❤ Thank you Dr Peterson. You're my hero.

[@derekh5340]

Me too

[@cocoj126]

Me too!

[@RM-yk1oi]

u're in an online cult

[@montanagal6958]

me too

[@nahaz9687]

Moi aussi

[@VTLille]

Rufo hit the nail on the head. It comes down to production. In each of the three cities he filmed for his documentary, it was the collapse of industry that in turn shredded families and cultural institutions. In this wasteland of meaningful employment, periodic infusions of money via welfare does absolutely nothing to change the base reality.

[@DurableMemories]

What a GREAT conversation! Listened 3 times cuz my intellectual processing speed isn't quite fast enough to take it all in at once 😅. Many thanks to you both!

[@marybethwestbrook6870]

Me, too! 😄

[@johntucker4296]

I just go back a lot to re-listen.

[@hiddenvalleyranch775]

Listening and processing is an active process and can be difficult with all the distractions of daily life. I'll re-listen even if I think I've got it. :-)

[@waynearkelian1096]

Love the work Peterson is doing to protect our society from bullies, however, I am only a high school graduate and I am tired of having to look up $20 words when the point can be made with words in common usage. It is not even a case of "dumbing it down" for the masses. Save the $20 words for your University meetings with compatriots or at least explain them as you go.

[@hiddenvalleyranch775]

@@waynearkelian1096 Taking the time to research unfamiliar words is just part of it. I understand how you feel though. Sometimes people use words as window-dressing as opposed to utility. Good luck to you.

[@jason666king]

Chris Rufo is a national treasure.

[@sheronfraser-burgess359]

It depends on who you take the polity to be.

[@Howdydoody23]

@sheron what’s polity got to do with national treasure.

[@mattyjay8896]

Dr Peterson is most definitely one of my favorite channels on KZbin!

[@myleshagar9722]

Canada's most renowned intellectual since Marshal McLune. sp?

[@helensregor]

Long live Dr Jordan B. Peterson

[@adamS9654834267]

This conversation is giving me hope that we might be able to push back against the insanity called wokeness. 🌅🙏👍👍👍

[@migueldecarvalho8012]

As a teacher in the UK I can say that, as much as I hated teacher training, Universities are not the sole culprits. Each time someone does an assembly, even one on Christmas, the real theme is social justice. That can be traced back to the free resources which the teacher got from a website where NGO's have been promoting their social causes.

[@charinabottae]

But... Where did those teachers of teachers employed by the NGOs get trained on the ideas? Or the founders of the NGOs get the ideas? It always can be traced back to academia.

[@thesisypheanjournal1271]

RE: Racial disparities in discipline. I worked in an agency that ran group homes for intellectually disabled adults and mentally ill adults. I'd been part of a team that was assigned to get a foundering mental health program back on track. After that the management asked if I'd join a high skilled supervisor, Sharon, to try to turn around a house that had serious problems with the employees. Sharon and I were always up for a challenge so the two of us said we'd take it on. The staff were shiftless and lazy and pretty much saw that house as a place where then went to hang out, and "Carl," "Jerry," and "Randy" were an annoying nuisance that had to be dealt with. I could go on for hours about the crappy quality of care they were providing, leading to Carl getting frequent urinary tract infections and Jerry having multiple unwitnessed falls and head injuries where he'd have to go to the emergency room for stitches. Sharon would write them up for not making sure Carl got the 8 glasses of water a day his doctor prescribed, not staying close to Jerry in the bathroom like his neurologist prescribed, taking the guys to outings that were STAFF oriented such as yard sales instead of to the park for exercise or to free concerts for live music per the guys' actual preferences. So the staff went to the EEO (Equal Employment Opportunity) Officer and complained that Sharon was picking on them because they were black and she was clearly racist. Sharon found this idea a bit bizarre, since she was black as well. But the EEO Officer agreed with them that Sharon was clearly being a racist for writing them up but never writing up the white employee (me). Sharon pointed out that I'd been transferred to that home because I was an exemplary employee who had helped turn around another bad program, and the employees there had a history of misbehavior. Nope. The EEO Officer declared that in order to prove that she wasn't a racist, Sharon had to write up a white employee every time she wrote up a black employee. Sharon pointed out that there were five black employees -- known troublemakers -- and one white employee -- who had never had an infraction in the five years she'd worked for the agency and had in fact won commendations and awards for her work. No dice. If you write up a black employee, you have to write up a white employee. Sharon and I even offered a compromise -- She'd write us up proportionately: For every five times she wrote up a black employee, she'd write up the white employee. Nope. It had to be a 1 for 1 for every write-up. There was a major budget shakeup and there were going to be layoffs and I asked them to just lay me off because there was no way that house could be turned around with that EEO Officer sabotaging us.

[@crystalparker2542]

These kind of stories make me so mad, and i believe they happen more than people could ever know..

[@gaiagaia6483]

It is because this black lives matter vindictive crap that these incidents become prevelant. Refugees proliferated like rabbits and now they are integrated into the system has guts to treat a white person like 19th century slave owner master or some kind of evil scientist to experiment on them. This accusatory and deragotary behaviour on their side makes the racism axis upside down. Let's talk about white experience amongst the black majority if it's gonna solve anything. What you gonna do when your child has to study 12 hours a day depressed and isolated while black studentss are partying all night with their 'gang' when she is indoctrinated and deluded by institution infested with black teachers??? There is no white supremacy if you are down and under. There is black supremacy if you throw your child on ground to be crushed and destroyed as a sacrificial goat. Do not send your child to school!!! Teach her, him how to survive how to stand up for herself himself how to think for self. Basic life lessons.

[@joanndeck4315]

I have a son with severe autism. He has 4:1 staffing at allllll times, 30 staff, only client in the home. This makes me soooo MAD and worried. Imagine the clients welfare not being main priority but DEI agenda?? It’s truly sick…

[@jackreacher.]

I see you're a quitter. (edited because an aggressor altered my statement to seem written by an illiterate).

[@jimiboi87]

Thanks for sharing your story with us. It is powerful to hear your first person experience.

[@brookecorbett4857]

I'm actively fighting this ideology in my children's school, finding meaningful ways to - as an individual parent - push back on the loss of the democratic process governing what my children learn. Thank you both for much to think about.

[@jasonformann4980]

Remove your children from public school, write every administrative staff member personally and lay the blame at their feet. Start a parents rights group. Actively rebuke the administrative staff as often as possible.

[@michelegioffredo8811]

Your children are too young to be pulled 40+ hours a week into the wrong world view. Pull them and fight frome there. "If you want to change the world go home and love your family."

[@flinch622]

Its frightening how much fraud is taking place, as so called "zoom learning" revealed during the Great Shutdown. Things are presented in class not debated by school boards, and undiscoverable if you had a fresh copy of curriculum in hand. I don't mind teachers having some autonomy, but the takeaway is parents need to get their kids to review the in-class work they do each day. When administrators are part of the fraud, school assemblies, orientation, or some other device that brings students out of the classroom is a potential trouble spot. Long story short, the problem is beginning in colleges these days, where students are trapped if they want their papers needed to float a resume. So they parrot or self gaslight, and if they become NEA members staying attached to our American roots is not simply hard, but near impossible.

[@rjmeeker89]

But...but...it's not in schools according to leftist establishment media and leftist figureheads. It's not in schools, yet lesser know critical theorists like Isaac Gottesman write books like "The Critical Turn in Education" describing how it got into schools.

[@georgitaylor2922]

Funny how history repeats itself. But as long as their system of corruption works, there is definately a pattern to their insanity. "Authoritarianism brings to mind repressive dictators to the likes of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, + Saddam Hussein. Historically, authoritarians deployed their massive security apparatus to torture + murder dissidents, jail journalists, rig elections, + shut down courts + legislatures. They disregarded laws + constitutions + systematically engaged in numerous extra-legal + extra-constitutional efforts to eliminate horizontal + vertical checks on their power + perpetuate their rule." Neither The Monarchy Nor The Governor General Will Help You!

[@1ucapedia]

Mr Rufo deserves an incredible amount of respect for how he handled himself in this interview. I think most people would be terrified if they heard Jordan Peterson say 1:18:30 , “Okay, so, let me, let me push back as hard as I can against that…” For him to reply “please” is incredibly brave and shows his confidence in the subject matter.

[@iayanarael2315]

Actually it has nothing to do with bravery it has to do with knowing how to have a conversation or dialogue about 'real things that are going on'; this can be learned.

[@1ucapedia]

@@iayanarael2315 with the exception of the bravery part, I think we’re using different words to express the same idea.

[@TOL1488]

Rufo is well ahead of Peterson on these subjects. Love them both but Rufo has all the reciepts and understands exactly what they are up to

[@1ucapedia]

@@TOL1488 agreed. I was amazed by not only how well-prepared Rufo was, but also his experience, knowledge, and wisdom on the subject. I’ve been impressed by all of Peterson’s long-form discussion guests, but Rufo is among the highest on the list of best guests for the podcast.

[@Carbon915]

He had nothing to fear. Peterson did not challenge him at all. He as largely in agreement with him.

[@ToIsleOfView]

Thank you, Jordan for this enlightening interview. OMG! This has been a focused watershed on the language & implementation of WOKE culture in our government schools. It's an unfortunate reality that we have very few parents that will listen for 90 min. I will share this but almost no one will take the time to take notes on the entire interview. School board members need to hear this but they are so busy they won't. I took notes from the transcript and I am hoping the notes will pique some interest.

[@seamusseamus1202]

Not only public. Our private Episcopal schools have been infiltrated with this nonsense.

[@crystalparker2542]

They aren't busy, they just either don't care or they're a part of it themselves

[@mht5875]

I live in southwest Florida not far from New College which is the biggest news down here. Yes, this particular college does need major help. Thank you Chris for all your hard work.

[@jays1198]

Good and wise warriors like Peterson and Rufo are SO encouraging 👍 BRAVO!

[@joanmargaret4899]

I was "failed" out of teaching 3 weeks before graduation (near end of student teaching). Long story, but totally due to my political bent. They wouldn't allow me to review the charges against me other than they said I was "unprofessional." They tried to get rid of me a year earlier, but I beat them with their own policy. In the end I couldn't afford to legally fight them. I was devastated at the time (2007)because I come from a family of educators and had the unique benefit of hearing conversations around pedegogy and school policies my entire life. I now see that I was whitewashed out of the profession and it is a sore spot for me to this day, especially seeing some of the characters teaching nowadays.

[@freddieoblivion6122]

It's because the goal is no longer life and actual progress. It's death and collapse that someone wants for us.

[@muncibedduSicilia]

In the Netherlands private schools with more conservative ways of teaching are being build now. You would probably be a great teacher on these sort of schools!

[@jeffgojail]

Translation: "WAAAAAH" That's just like a conservative to always play the victim card. Unfortunately for you guys there's absolutely nothing in the Constitution that says we can't discriminate against you based on your awful choices. Conservatives are NOT a protected class. We can discriminate against you with impunity and all you can do about it is cry like little bitches to Mr. Peterman

[@jeffgojail]

​@@muncibedduSicilia Yeah, but everybody in Holland is high as fk so why would I trust them?

[@jeffgojail]

@@sinksnake7031 Maybe, but the question I really want Mr. Peterman to answer is why are there so many songs about rainbows? LOL!

[@wookongninja7461]

This conversation is fire. Please continue this dialog between the two of you! Thank you gentlemen!

[@jessetryon5108]

Wow...!!! Rufo is one smart dude. Great interaction/interview. Thank you.

[@susannerobbins]

I’m not a fan of reactionary laws because too often they lead to unwanted consequences. So I 100% appreciate this statement: “I’m much more reassured that you and the people who are doing this have thought this through to the proper level of detail.”

[@senorpoodles1755]

"Reactionary" is a leftist word.

[@senorpoodles1755]

@@bnjmnwst Leftists are encouraged to occupy all seats in government to enact their ideology. If conservatives don't occupy those seats, they will be occupied by leftists.

[@tvtrauma7024]

5 year old white children are being taught they should hate their race and history and you are worried about what unintended consequences if we do something, how about the affect it will have if we do nothing. conservatives need to grow balls

[@tonye.5410]

When morality is at question, the "side" is clear. Whether it's law or offensive admittance of an absolute truth, government and laws are meant for a "Moral" people. Full stop. I pick that "side"

[@susannerobbins]

@@tvtrauma7024, yes, I am concerned about unintended consequences. I do, absolutely, abhor what's happening in the CRT movement, but I, like Peterson, want to be sure the cure isn't worse than the disease. Oppression can come from either the conservative or the liberal side. I never suggested doing nothing; I suggested doing something correctly.

[@louiacobelli9265]

We need a Chris Rufo in Canada. He’s 100% correct. Scrap every DIE department and policies at the school boards, in colleges and universities and the system will immediately improve. We need to do it for the students who are being used for a misguided and dangerous experiment. Students learning, accountability and safety ought to be the only focus of any school.

[@BNOBLE.]

He has teaed up with my Gov in Florida Ron Desantis and is doing some great things for the state but he gets no media covg.

[@paulbadics3500]

Canada is bad..Ford's so called "conservative" majority govt has done nothing to go after woke in institutions

[@patriciakimball8150]

Amen to that from CA and on behalf of my friends in PA, all laboring under mandatory PC “trainings” at corporations, school districts, etc. While you’re at it, is there something to be done about the Unions, which require us to pay dues and then throw their entire weight (in our names & with our money) behind the DNC?

[@markgruber9076]

Need a Rufo or 2 in Australia as well , it’s also going the way of the woke at a rapid rate.

[@3rdPartyIntervener]

You don't need Chris Rufo in Canada, you need GUNS in Canada.

[@luctourigny2720]

This was one of the greatest interviews I’ve listened. Great arguments, great analysis and especially great solutions and actions being put into place.

[@carolehoeller6799]

Fantastic!!! The intellect of both of these men blows my mind!! But I was able to follow & very much appreciate this dialogue. Blessings on your endeavors, Christopher - may the future bring back solid common sense and integrity to our education systems!

[@janicewright5165]

This is such an important topic! I hope to hear more guests regarding what is being done to our children and how we can fight back effectively.

[@mymanlovesme1]

I am always honored to listen to Dr. Peterson, I learn how to present theories and facts and how to engage people more intellectually and factually. These discussions are a treasure trove of knowledge. Thank you Dr. Peterson...

[@SeptemberAdam]

You've learned nothing, but how to bs and bluff your way out of defending your stagnant backwards conservatism. So quit being false to yourself.

[@mymanlovesme1]

@@SeptemberAdam lmbo. Empty barrels will make noise. Sounds like a you problem 🤔

[@SeptemberAdam]

@@mymanlovesme1 You don't know what theories and facts are for one.

[@SeptemberAdam]

Another thing you'd learned from Peterson and Rufo is how to be more of a liar. Do I need to go on?

[@careym3901]

@@SeptemberAdam There is always one or two like you who have absolutely no counter argument, just fancy troll talk. I actually have pity for people like you, showing your level of intelligence to the world by this behaviour. So sad!

[@richardkuehn7015]

This is the first time I have heard Christopher speak and boy the man is a powerhouse and so uplifting to hear speak and does give me hope for our future. Stay safe strong and well young man, we need you and your idea’s to be disseminated far and wide. Massive respect from an old boy Brit from London, England. 👍😎👍🇬🇧 🇺🇸

[@VCDCN]

Canada needs this man. I was very apocalyptical about the educational system, but he just gave me some hope that the indoctrination may change here as well.

[@okgroomer1966]

Hope isn't a winning strategy. The only victory is the victory you make happen. It's not going to fall from the sky and won't be accomplished by talking about it.

[@SouLightness]

It also surprises me that you are considered conservative. It feels freeing listening to you. My background is so devastating that i am now on disability. Fortunately i dont spend either on drink or drugs. I went from a very right wing family that broke up and left me excluded in the streets, to a left wing community where i didn't feel i fit either. Worked in the social justice sector with its divisiveness, for many years but now i see how artificial the ideology was a shield for reality. Im reaching the point where wokeism repulse me. I refuse to participate in festivals etc where i could sell my art as i feel ideology is terribly stiffening...Now i volunteer art classes for people with neurological illnesses who, like me, can benefit with a bit of art, creativity and relaxation... Listening to you i can say i feel finally mature...at 63. Unfortunately my illness doesnt allow me to be actively politically. But is good to see clearly even though it leaves me totally alone.

[@lindamorrison450]

This podcast has been a white pill for me!! Soooooo good to hear the work being done to get over the barriers that the woke culture has set up to destroy our society. Chris's rigor, level of analysis and intelligence are a great resource for this job. After listening, I have hope that the American project is not yet coming to an end!!

[@smttn1]

Yes, me too!! That's exactly how it made me feel :)

[@sooky2253]

A very interesting discussion. As a retired teacher, I've been thanking my lucky stars I left teaching before this explosion of perversion! This sounds like a huge step in the right direction.

[@rachellera-shellkoon5977]

I too was very liberal throughout college despite being raised in a very conservative home. Then I went to Libertarian for many years because I am Atheist and I couldn't be a conservative on that premise alone. Since Covid and Biden's election, for the first time in my 46 years I became very worried for our country. I am also a Canadian citizen and I am worried for my home country too. I have decided that I can stand with religious voters to stop the loss of our freedoms and stop the extreme movements from the left side. This was a very good conversation.

[@craig4219]

I used to vote democratic because I believe in collective bargaining and anti war. And haven't voted since 2016 primary because democrats are neither, and republicans are union busters. Since our union hall opened after lockdowns it's nothing but woke and LGBTQ nonsense, but I never thought I would quit the union because I shouldn't have to let them violate my morality and religion, I never imposed my beliefs on them and I believe woke and LGBTQ has made me a right winger. 32 years of membership, they prove that marriage is between a man and a woman, and homosexuality is a sin, because they want to push there family destruction until everyone is fabulous and perverted

[@flatroc1]

Excellent, excellent, excellent discussion. Thank you.

[@narddog5430]

This kid has articulated what every American adult SHOULD be able to articulate after leaving High School. I feel a little behind in civics, that I was surprised how easily and concisely they address what's going on. I'm encouraged that people are moving against the tyranny. The leftists need to pack their bags.

[@Artcore103]

This is brilliant. A genuine ray of hope, culturally.

[@patriciamartick1192]

It is seldom that I leave such a discussion with any sense of optimism. I appreciate Mr. Rufo's efforts very much. God Bless you.

[@AlmostAnOldFart]

Regarding teacher’s certification, my wife is a disabled M.D. who taught college level anatomy classes soon after her disability. Our local HS wanted to offer an advanced placement anatomy class. My wife applied, but was turned down because she lacked a teacher’s certificate.

[@leekit6099]

What!? Hands on experience M.D. put off for a university federal curriculum taught student. . .

[@anthonydavinci7985]

The value AND energy in Peterson's ramblings are MAGNIFICENT..

[@JH-sn8kg]

Watching Jordan Peterson commend a fellow man based off his intellectual ability. I love it.

[@iBeHampe]

it’s a real achievement to go into a conversation with Jordan and be able to hold your own intellectually 😂 that has to be a good feeling wrapping up a conversation with Jordan and recieving his praise in the end.

[@onlytruth7237]

This was so valuable. I was raised catholic and went to catholic school but never could understand what was shared on this podcast. I do now. Beautiful. Can't wait for more.

[@imamachineok]

I agree. I'm Canadian and am often embarrassed and sheepish when I see, read and hear things that show the sad direction our country is going. Thank goodness Jordan Peterson is one of us! My parents are going to see him speak in a couple months in BC and I'm so jealous.

[@jodag3475]

My district had a teacher shortage in 2021, superintendent claimed the reason was , "we can't afford to pay what other districts pay teacher"... same year we hired a racism investigation/ coaching team for $300k a year. This team interviewed children, determined our district had racist teachers, determined we needed to hire a diversity coaching team (them). Now they make sure our teachers aren't racist at a cheap price of 300k a year

[@muncibedduSicilia]

If it wasn't so sad I would have laughed

[@jodag3475]

@muncibedduSicilia so sad. This diversity training team took our teacher on a weekend retreat. I can't imagine the amount of lies that were spewed there. Politically Correct bs retreat

[@zbigniew2628]

They are political commissars.

[@jean-marclamothe8859]

Unbelievable!

[@DavidJohnson-pp4sy]

This has been a superb discussion. Much appreciated, guys.

[@Innerdiamond]

This is a fantastic interview. Teaching youth negative ideation abnegates any potential for positive self image and affirmative growth to be a productive creative human. There is a Universal value system that when aligned with promotes a solid foundation for life.

[@jrogue3710]

“Finally had the freedom to think as an adult…”……that resonated big time. I thought I was a left leaning (Canadian) person…these days….I’m more centre/right. And hearing that sentence just solidified it.

[@blazingarrows6117]

Great conversation, a breath of fresh air. Thank you!

[@kaymoto4023]

Thank you, Christopher! Having been subjected to DEI training, it is criminal to subject children to this.

[@synaesthesia4183]

Same here! I'm a social worker in Canada...all my education was laced with this divise rhetoric and victimology! It was Virtue-signaling everywhere...I had no idea what would happen a few years later....

[@maryjohnston4296]

This conversation gives me hope for the future of US. I will pray for Chris and others working toward a more positive and unifying US .

[@okgroomer1966]

They've been happening the entire time, the issue is its a minority of people willing to have them. It's not a winning strategy as has been proven by our continued decline. Intellectuals caused these problems and are not the type of people who fix them. That requires those who do, not talk.

[@ZeldaZorch205]

How about if you DO something?

[@okgroomer1966]

@@ZeldaZorch205 Nobody said people should be dumb jumping on grenades. It's going to take leaders to organize and muscle to see it through. Otherwise it's a waist of time. Unfortunately I'm not charismatic so no leader. I'm not afraid to serve though. Did 10 years and 2 wars😉

[@camipanzarellasteele3587]

Jordan Peterson with Christopher Rofo is beautiful and enlightening. Thank you both 💗

[@kim-jong-poon]

I wish I could go back in time and say thank you to Mr Sandell, my middle school reading teacher that had us reading Orwell in 6th and 7th grades.

[@serpentines6356]

Well, just go ahead and put a fervent, thank you shout out to him now. Believe it or not, I really do think "the spirits" hear us.

[@craighart9278]

Wow, I can't wait to watch this! Respect to Dr. Peterson and Christopher Rufo 🙏

[@beebee7834]

Listening to Professor Jordan is like going to church combined with a good political rally. I do both, so I know what I am saying. I wish I'd had him for a teacher.

[@therainman7777]

I’m not trying to be a jerk. And overall I like JP. But your description is actually a little concerning, given that political rallies and church services are places that you go to hear ideology and have your emotions stirred, rather than dispassionate reasoning and a plain discussion of the facts.

[@kathleentiemubol1080]

Very helpful and informative conversation! Thank you for making it available to those of us who are trying to understand the social and cultural dynamics around us.

[@hejduke9060]

Mr. Rufo is well spoken, compelling, and effective. Thank you both.

[@vansserafim]

Jordan Peterson is underappreciated. I hope his messages can live forever and stick to as many as possible

[@knife3]

You misspelled "overappreciated."

[@zetataylor1550]

Thank you! I am so grateful to hear an excellent discussion on reforming education. Our system has gotten so far astray. Our future depends on education and it is failing our children and society.

[@crocodilegrundee4514]

It’s cool to see when it clicks that Peterson understands Rufo’s point. When Chris says “YES” the second time. He is so fired up about it. Awesome discussion gentlemen!

[@JMo-uh5cd]

So excited for this! Really want to hear them hash out their differences on how to approach "wokology" in ed.

[@reoire843]

This is such an important discussion. It's critical for us to understand where all these social problems came from. I always pointed to the internet as an explanation, which I still believe is a huge factor, as it allows rapid spread of all ideas, good and bad, but the bad ideas seem to have proven far more "contagious". But Peterson and Rufo have made a highly compelling argument here that this harmful rhetoric has largely spread through the education system. I used to be a public school teacher in California, and it was an absolute nightmare. I fled the field quickly and started working in the tech sector instead. I felt really bad about abandoning the children to the nasty teachers and administrators who remained in that system, as unfortunately that system tends to attract the worst sorts of people to work in it. Teachers who are prepared to make true positive change in the classroom have a terrible time of it. I left the education field in 2010, and things there have gotten even worse since then. I expect most of the good teachers would tend to be drummed out of the profession or choose to flee as I did. But you can't run forever; it's clear now that these evils will grow and spread if they are not fought. Harmful identity politics have invaded the tech sector too and even spread into broader society. Getting back to this discussion... Peterson and Rufo are doing great work in helping to pin down the sources of these issues. Their argument about the education sector being a sort of spawning ground for those toxic ideologies rings true with what I observed in the California education field in the late 2000s. Rufo's plan to attack it through State legislature seems sensible to me. I like his rationale about the public education system as being beholden to the people. It definitely seems like the radical leftists have hijacked the school system in many states by sneaking their nasty ideology throught the back door. If the State legislature can be utilized to purge that bile from the system, it should be done! I would agree that addressing it at the institutional level seems to be necessary, and that you can't leave it up to individual teachers to make the change. Most public school teachers are totally at the mercy of the education system, which has become a multi-headed hydra, as Peterson and Rufo explain in this discussion. Individual teachers who try to oppose these bad ideas can be easily crushed by the school system because they depend on it for their livelihood. They risk their entire career for standing up against this problem, and can be easily pushed out of their job for not towing the party line of the radical leftists. So I would agree that it's unreasonable to expect change to come from a few brave teachers speaking out.

[@gracegwozdz8185]

Perhaps it's not as much teachers who tow the party line, but the schools' administration imposes evil woke ideas on the teachers and students.

[@Geezerelli]

Can these educators define a woman?

[@deborahjoyvalentine6180]

Education Reform and preserving Constitutional Parental CHOICES requirea WE The American People to Vote, Petition, Protest and Advocate in everyway possible, NOW.

[@serpentines6356]

Can you give any specific example (s) of why it was so horrible?

[@grizzlygrizzle]

It's also important to clarify the sources of the intellectual cancer, so that the people fighting it can attack it aiming precisely at the tumor. Jordan and Christopher talked about Gramsci and the postmodernists/deconstructionists, without getting at a clear diagnosis. -- The radical epistemological skepticism of postmodernists/deconstructionists is fundamental to all the more concrete doctrines. The vulgar version is that there's no such thing as objective truth and that all truth is subjective or socially constructed. This is tantamount to saying that there's no such thing as truth, because the postmodernist notion of "truth" simply fails to be what normal, sane people require from truth. And when the left gets rid of the hard edges of truth, they can say anything, and present it as "truth." -- When there's no such thing as truth, there's no such thing as reality (truth is the representation of reality), leaving postmodernists free to abandon intellectual self-discipline wholesale, so that the only limitations on their doctrines are what they can persuade others to go along with. Discourse becomes purely a mechanism of social manipulation when the hard edges of truth are removed. -- The abandonment of truth and reality goes some way to explaining the high numbers of mental illness on the left. -- Subjectivity did not always mean "individual arbitrariness." From Descartes through Husserl, subjectivity was examined in its universal features, i.e, in terms of the aspects of subjectivity shared by all minds. All of our minds are private, and require an experiencing subject distinct from its experienced objects. All of us experience physical solids in a one-side way, most of them opaque to our vision, all of them "opaque" to our touch. Unfortunately, the left uses subjectivity as a judgment of arbitrariness and unreliability and ignores the universal aspects of subjective experience. When one focuses on the universal aspects of subjectivity, one can talk about the disciplines required to address the general difficulties in human knowing and inquiring. -- Objective truth is not the same as absolute truth. Descartes distinguished between absolute certainty and practical certainty back in 1641. Absolute truth allows no qualifications, but objective practical truth allows for qualifications of context and circumstance. Within the circumstance of single-family houses, it is objectively true that 2x4 stud-wall construction is structurally adequate and reliable, but this doesn't apply to skyscraper construction. Newton's laws of motion are objectively true for human-scale physical objects, but when viewed in a broader perspective (a la Einstein and Planck), they become "local" truths that apply to a certain scale of phemomena. Reality is complicated, and to specify every consideration needed to elevate practical truth to the level of absolute truth would require an infinitely long list of specifications. In practice, the closest thing to "absolute" truth we have is the abstract truth of arithmetic and logic (as Kant said, "7+5=12" will be true in any imaginable universe). Numbers are themselves abstract and distinct objects without existence in the physical world. Real physical objects do not exist as absolutely distinct and independent objects, but are connected to one another via all kinds of connections from gravity to glue to metal fasteners to connective tissue. Thus, "Two apples plus three apples equal five apples" is practically and objectively true, but not absolutely true, because it treats the apples as distinct, independent objects without taking into account their gravitational fields, the imprecision of the category "apples," and so on. -- Bottom line: the radical skepticism of postmodernism toward truth stems from the unreasonable expectation of finding absolute truth. -- Taking the distinctness and independent existence of objects for granted led Leibniz and Hume, in their different ways, to declare the connections in the physical world illusions. Centuries earlier, Parmenides took the oneness of the world for granted, and this entailed that the distinctions in the world are illusions. "Is the world one thing or many?" is an ancient metaphysical problem about the physical world, one that cannot be solved with absolutist thinking that expects a simple "one" or "many" as the unambiguous answer. -- To name a thing is to abstract it from its context, to objectify it, isolate it, and mathematize it. The very use of language fudges reality, but only marginally, by emphasizing the distinctions that are really there in the world and subordinating the connections. The main noun in a sentence treats what it refers to as a distinct, independent object, and then, connections are plugged into the predicate, subordinately and selectively, depending on the purpose of the speaker. When we represent reality in language, we fudge it, but only marginally, because the distinctions in the physical world are really there, but are not absolute distinctions. And the connections are really there, but the world is not an absolute unity. We do not make up our understanding of the world out of whole cloth, but fudge it only marginally, for the sake of representing it. It is not correct to assume that our understanding of the real world is completely arbitrary and "made up," as the postmodernists/deconstructionists assume, for our representations of the world are based in reality, despite some representational tweakings. What the postmodernists/deconstructionists do is to exaggerate the limitations on human knowing for the sake of justifying their believing whatever they want to believe, subject only to the limitations on what they can coerce others to believe. Their interpretations of language and "truth" are entirely manipulative, and they use them as tools for the pursuit of power. -- Something to consider: if the world were completely arbitrary, and lacked any reliable patterns of regularity, we wouldn't experience disappointment in our wishes. We wouldn't be reliably disappointed in attempts to walk through trees, or to fly like Superman. -- Another consideration is the amount of our learning that occurs unconsciously, without verbal representation. Infants do not have the means to learn via language, because they don't have language, but they learn how to move their bodies, to grasp things, to focus their eyes, to feed at their mothers' breasts. The known mechanisms of unconscious learning are classical an operant conditioning, by which we learn to function in the world, but not statements about the world. Our "instincts" are shaped through gratifying and disappointing encounters with various sensory circumstances. Even as adults, when we practice tennis swings or piano-playing techniques, we are rewarded with repeated degrees of success until the functions of those techniques become "second nature," automatic, and unconscious. These mechanisms of unconscious learning are somewhat random, depending on our individual encounters in the world, but are non-arbitrary. The gratifications and disappointments are not subject to interpretive representations; they just shape our behavioral inclinations unconsciously. Much of common sense is based on this learning, and can't be fully put into words. -- The organic evolution of natural language is shaped by the uncountable instances of success or disappointment in the employment of words and linguistic constructions. Some words and structures of their employment simply "work" better than others in representational tasks, and tend to persist in language, while the less useful ones tend to drop out. Similar Darwinian, trial-and-error, survival-of-the-fittest mechanisms apply in human customs and traditions. There is collective unconscious learning in these things, but we can't sort out and quantify it with precision, but it is non-arbitrary (though subject to some randomness in terms of which encounters with reality a group has experienced). -- Radical ideologies are inherently the most arbitrary constructs in all of human affairs. -- The intellectual underpinnings of wokeness and critical theory are DEEPLY flawed, and warriors who are fighting them should be armed with enough confidence not to be cowed by the made-up jargon in support of their fundamental distortions of reality.

[@jes5392]

Mr Rufo's a brilliant guy, pleasure to listen to.

[@debraleonelli6457]

Christopher Rufo is an incredible FORCE 💯

[@kgjaqe1169]

It is amazing when great minds meet, Thank you for the fantastic conversation.

[@Blmaca]

Both have taken action due to their beliefs. Evil will win when good men-women do nothing. Thank you both for articulating simple truths and standing up for those who are not as secure in simple moral and values given to all of us who accept our truth that this country has been given by God Amighty as a gift. I pray for those who can't see right and wrong

[@LiberalsHateFacts]

THE CONSPIRACY THEORY . It has been clear for a while now to the Elites, the Governments, and others with a need to control things, that more and more people would skip their daily brainwashing session with legacy MSM and obtain their daily News directly from the Internet. As that process progressed, they would lose their control over We the People and that terrifies them. Their strategy to deal with this is multi-pronged and includes: . • Quantitative easing, aka the printing of money: deliberately creating Inflation, ever increasing prices, and eventually crippling debt for all but the wealthiest, • Climate change policies: eliminating/reducing the use of fossil fuels and fertilizers, generating food shortages, and creating hunger and starvation in some parts of the world, • Digital currencies to track your every move, • Censorship: largely enacted by bought and paid for legacy MSM organizations, and enforced by Government, • Lawfare: use of the judicial system to enforce the will of government, • Ignoring precedents established in Common Law over centuries in favour of new progressive ideologically based legislation, based on Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity, • 15-minute cities: limiting your mobility, tracking your movements, • Taxes: taking away part of the wages and hard-earned profits of ordinary citizens and then returning some of it through special programs simply places greater control over people’s lives in the hands of the government, • COVID-19: the lockdowns, the masks, and social distancing, • Divide and conquer strategies: keeping people from uniting and fighting for common causes such as their Rights and Freedoms. . But of course, the fact that the common thread running through all of this is Control, Control, Control is pure coincidence. Anyone who questions that is obviously a Conspiracy Theorist. Politicians respect the will of the people and know that we need help with figuring out what is in our best interests. Politicians understand our needs better than we do, and they are here to help us figure out what we want. Any suggestion that successive governments in Western nations have become increasingly Authoritarian and are intent on implementing Totalitarian states is just plain silly. . Well, maybe. In any event there is little point in continually describing problems without ever defining Solutions. Constantly adding to the Fear and Apprehension that people feel without telling them what they can or should do is likely creating as much harm as good. . In 2023 you should spend more time listening to the likes of Jordan Peterson, Bari Weiss, Dave Rubin, Christopher Ruffo, and maybe even a little J.P. Sears. .

[@jacquelineiona1996]

Wow, the young man Christopher Rufo, just spoke about changing the linguistic terminology of certain things (and I totally believe that’s happening) and not long ago I watched George Carlin talk about the very same thing! Another reason why I love Comedians-they speak about TRUTHS ❤🎉I think this was a great conversation- thank you for sharing. Merit is a myth? GTHO 🎉

[@billconn9966]

I've been desperately seeking a light in the darkness of this destructive, deluded, divisive woke insanity. This conversation is most welcome. Anybody watching should be asking themselves how they can help make this light brighter. Please don't stop, guys. Please don't stop.

[@josflorida5346]

Amazing guest! I could listen to you both all day. Things have been bringing me down and these are tough subjects but somehow listening to your inspiration is building me hope

[@TorontoNeurospicyGirl]

JP brilliant as always. Having gone through some mandatory DEI training at work, and feeling like it was forcefully shoved down my throat against my will the whole time... I'm happy to see that there are sane people out there fighting against this. I can't even imagine the amount of damage this is doing to young minds. How long till any changes occurs god only knows.. especially here Canada... (one can only hope that this trend spills over to Canada and we start seeing some sanity here. I know JP is Canadian, and would do a great service to our country if he could somehow facilitate change here. I've always been a leftist but I think I've had enough...the left has gone so left it's gone insane. Side note for Christopher: I don't know how to say this without sounding mean so I appologize, because this comes from a good place. May I offer some constructive Critisism? With all due respect, you are a very intelligent man and i really hope your message get out there... I think it would be beneficial if you sough some speech therapy or coaching to help decrease the unecessary repeating of words, I noticed that happens a lot. It didnt bother me because I was so happy listening to what you had to say, but it may bother others who you are working to convince. I think your message will be easier to hear and undestand of you adressed this.. You are a fast talker, and the repeating of words make you sound a bit anxious insead of confident. People tend to pay more attention if the speaker sounds confident. I hope I'm making sense. This is intended as constructive critisism not a personal attack. Otherwise I applaud your efforts!

[@Driver-ur9mf]

Thanks Ana, realize am late to comment, and I understand communication without distractors is ideal. Hope you understand some are not convinced no matter how you articulate. Be well.

[@barbarawilson958]

Christopher reminds me of Ryan Gosling

[@No_name860]

I agree except I think he speaks fine. HVe you heard Justin Turdo speak? Lol now that’s annoying.

[@joelsmith2991]

As always professor, an excellent and informative interview. Thank you.

[@Jackjohnjay]

Thank god people are working on this. Great to hear. It will save our country and our youth from much of their present misery.

[@serpentines6356]

Well, at least support the "fighters". They need all the help they can get.

[@allyourbase888]

Bravo! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾I’m with you Mr. Rufo. ✊🏾❤️🇺🇸

[@craigtalbot607]

ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!!! Makes me grateful my future grandchildren will be raised in Florida!!!

[@chivomartinez]

My best hopes to Christopher's effort. Is sounds well planed for a better future for all.

[@dianabridgman9641]

Fantastic interview and guest! I really enjoyed the conversation and I am a little more hopeful for the educational future.

[@MrTylerlang]

I saw you in Everett Washington last weekend. I really loved the show and appreciate all the work you do. God bless you mr Peterson!

[@NewYorkCityGritty5]

I love to hear you speak Dr. Peterson. Your wife is incredibly lucky to be able to listen to you all the time and I am sure you feel lucky to be in her company also. 😂😂😂

[@elisetape2992]

Thanks you so much for bringing up these topics to educate us about Marxism and how it is dangerous, especially in the educational system. God also must be moved to tears of gratitude for your valuable work.

[@ThisIsToolman]

I’m convinced! Thank you, Doctor Peterson, for inviting Rufo to your platform.

[@serpentines6356]

Convinced of what?

[@ThisIsToolman]

@@serpentines6356 , Sorry. There was a point in the video where there was a speculation of being “convinced“. I was alluding to that. I’d have to watch the video through again to find that moment. In general though, I am on board for most of what was said.

[@JamesStorey09]

Brilliant video. I must say that Dr. Peterson looks happy and healthy, which makes me very happy to see. Hope you’re doing well Sir. ❤

[@Dominicaislandmon]

Excellent interaction and discussion. So good..... as a famous philosopher once said, "Git 'er done!"

[@YouTubeScriptwriter]

When he mentioned Nigerians, I felt so darn proud😊

[@eatpoppingcandycandy2814]

You have literally opened my eyes to everything I had been taught and changed how I have viewed myself and my values.. I honestly think every teen should listen to you. Thank you

[@reefsroost696]

He's got a lot to say, doesn't he?

[@dodieodie498]

It would be cool if Jordan would write a book and maybe accompanying workbook just for adolescents and teens. Maybe if he and some others even did a series or if each did a couple of chapters in a book for young people. Would also be cool if he and some others got together and did a series for kids online, or maybe even a unit or two for home schooling. Hmm. So much that is possible.

[@WW-on6bo]

Christopher Rufo amazed me with his depth and rigor. Dr. Peterson would do well to acknowledge this young man for his brilliance. This is probably the best and most important guest I’ve seen on the show. I’d like to see Mr. Rufo get the national attention he and his ideas merit!!!

[@Deacondan240]

The first time I have heard from Rufo. I appreciate his boldness.

[@2038cbzo]

I think I can give a lot of insight on Jordan’s questions surrounding art and artistic expression. I am much more right wing, and I have been working full time as a professional artist for 10 years. Over that time I’ve worked with a wide variety of other creative types and I think there is one point Jordan is missing here which is that even though not all personalities will choose to express themselves with art, if they did they would not make the same type of art. There are many different styles and approaches to art. It’s not all loose, random creation. Myself and other conservative artists I’ve met tend to be much more interested in creating realistic style art pieces that replicate life-like images closely, and/or be interested in capturing photography. In essence, we want to capture reality and often struggle to be able to create abstract pieces. On the other end, more left leaning artists I’ve met are the exact opposite. They tend to be better at creating abstract art and coming up with new ideas and are less interested in creating realism style art. To sum up, art is not a general blanket that can be examined as a whole. Art is varied and the types of art and techniques to create it may differ with certain personalities

[@ricoswagger7076]

There in lies the problem with art, its so subjective that a "starving artist" can eat a bucket of steamed corn on the cob. After 12 hours can stand in front of a 10 ft by 10 ft porcelain white canvas, and with an industrial fan on high blowing air straight at him he shits in both his hands and just slings the shit into the oscillating fan launching cornucopia of shit into a corn freckled shit silhouette in the shape his bloated "starving" body. Name it something punny like portrait of a midwestern corn husker whos shit finally hits a fan. Find some kinky German or Brazilian Billionaire who will buy it for a million bucks. Yes its technically creative and thought provoking, but I think any true art form requires a series of practices to perform in order to aquire a set of skills that compromise the artform. Like Martial arts or musical instruments. Conceptual stunts although creative in their own right. Dont require 10,000 hours of repitition to become a master of their art. So for that reason I wouldnt call overly liberal artistic concepts an artform or as beneficial to ones life like most art forms tend to be. Most true art forms when reaching the pinnacle of that form, it tend to take you into the highest levels of society. So I wouldn't call it art, modern most definitely, but unequivocally not art. Abstract sure conceptual 100% but art should reflect life. The pursuit of conservative realistic and technically difficult art styles is more akin to true visual artistry, as opposed to a series of black perpindicular and parrallel lines with random blue yellow and red squares of varying size. That ironically could possibly be created by slinging a bunch of colors into an oscillating fan, and catching whatever will stick to a canvas, sans corn cobs.

[@lisadaluz1498]

Excellent discussion. Love the train wreck of thought pattern brought out in the open. Open minded artists who live openly agree to extremely limiting set of beliefs. How can that not implode on artists minds? When will the artist feel totally confused??I have 2 daughters that have gone off the edge with this craziness!!! And now they refuse to speak to me. Radical left have created such damage to family systems.

[@revolioclockman8090]

Artists are imploding, it's blindingly apparent from the state of modern media. Most shows, movies, comics, music, or video games (basically anything that needs a team to make) is now made by a cabal of SoCal factory workers who can't write, draw, or play an instrument. The actual artists are marginalized in favour of idealogues backed by ESG money.

[@nightjaronthegate]

@@marinabrennan5215 Does your comment have any meaning?