Improving printed PLA parts... WITH BOOZE?

[@AlexKenis]

Just to clarify: the parts were printed and then soaked in ethanol.

[@JosepsGSX]

A "like" feels weak to reflect how useful this information is and how much I enjoy these videos. Thanks man

[@zodak9999b]

Before the video: I agree. Alcohol makes all my prints look better! After: Oh.

[@SianaGearz]

Super happy that you're recovering and that you've avoided danger so far! Solvent induced crystallisation. Even though alcohol doesn't exactly dissolve PLA. Crazy. And how does it crystallise it in place without distorting the print... this is crazy useful. CNC Kitchen is for sure the king of print material strength tests, but there is a shitty way that doesn't need a dedicated device. Remember how Thomas Sanladerer used to do this for any of the Filaween tests. A digital luggage hook scale with max function, but needs a fairly powerful one. And he's just pulling down on it gradually, against a sample clamped to the desk.

[@AlexKenis]

I could do that I suppose. I have an arduino set up with a strain gauge that I could fancy up a bit

[@AndrewAHayes]

A PETG control group would have been interesting to watch to see how it held up against the boiled sample.

[@A.Achorn]

What about good old Fashioned 99% isopropyl alcohol? Is it more of the benze concern or something? Canadian labels list it as only containing isopropyl alcohol and distilled water. I only noticed the mention of isopropyl alcohol in the last medical grade one that was still only 95%. Is 99% isopropyl alcohol hard to come by in the states or something? I can grab it at bloody Walmart!

[@DavidMulligan]

Alex Kenis Have you looked at the Tusk or Berd air pipe part cooling gizmos? They are metal tubes with holes drilled into them. Both designs look to be easy enough for most home users to make and there are parts on thingiverse for bending and drilling the tubes.

[@davidwillmore]

You got the denatonium benzoate part backwards. The chemical is named after the term denature, not the other way around.

[@theheadone]

I'd be curious how this affects mechanical properties as well, rather than just dimensional accuracy and thermal resistance. I'm in Philly too, stay safe!

[@AlexKenis]

OOf yeah, be safe... we didn't get hit as hard as the business corridors. a few groups tried to torch a restaurant on our block but this is mixed-residential so basically the whole neighborhood chased them off and they only smashed a few windows and lit a few trash cans on fire. As for the tests, maybe I'll do a quick and dirty followup with some DIY rigs to see is there is any significant mechanical property changes and then maybe ill message Stefan if that shows promise

[@gentiligiuliano7882]

Denaturants here are denatonium, MEK and tiophene. (plus some red colorant often). No methanol, in europe are more concerned of people being intoxicated drinking denaturated alcohol. I guess redistilled denaturated ethanol (that is 94%) should do the work

[@peterkiss1204]

I may be late to the party, but how about annealing the part in ethanol, then cooking it on the bed? The shrinkage and deformation should be reduced due to the ethanol bath. It just seems to be a good idea to take a bath before bedtime. I might be testing it.

[@AlexKenis]

I realized a while back that I never released the follow up video to this one, but actually I did a crapload of testing along those lines. Warmer ethanol/water mix works faster/better than room temp. The heat deflection and stiffness increase proportionally. Only in once case was I able to get close to HOT bed annealing, BUUT, deformation is way less. I’ll post the follow up when I can, but we’re in the process of getting ready to move soon... hence the lack of videos unfortunately.

[@JoeSchmoe-lq1uo]

@@AlexKenis 4 years since this method was revealed to the community and it still hasn't become widespread or even much talked about. Is the 3D printing community just a bunch of Teetotalers? Even if this method doesn't achieve the highest heat deflection possible, I think this is a great way to get the stiffness of PLA and the temp resistance of PETG to mechanical parts (it also reduces PLA tendency to creep)! Hope you're doing well these days and would like you to know the videos you made in the past helped my understanding of 3d printing and related principles very much. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and documenting your experiments!

[@ImSweetKiss]

Hey Alex hope you are fine, any secret recipe to improve ABS layer adhesion? 90% of my prints are in ABS mostly because the filament handles humidity better than PLA and PETG.

[@jaro6985]

Thanks for putting so much work into this as usual.

[@arminth]

Good to have you back! Question: could the fact that a higher proof works worse than a lower one hint to the idea, that it isn't the alcohol creating the effect but the water? We know that PLA is hygroscopic. As water has a higher boiling point than alcohol, it would take longer to evaporate from the pla in the oven thus staying a longer time in the plastic when heated/drying. Just an idea!

[@AlexKenis]

I thought about that, I should have done more testing. BUT Im doing another batch of tests for a followup, so I'll put all the samples in dessicant overnight just to see how much of a role the moisture played in it, and also try a more controlled low-alcohol-high-water sample and one just soaked in water. What makes me suspect that is not the case are that I had several samples sitting out after they were treated for a day in an air conditioned room (so low humidity) while I was soaking the 'overnight' sample, so they all would have at least somewhat equalized, and that some of those fast forwarded videos were cooking the prints for a long time before I decided they were stable and cranked the heat to max to see which melted first, but you're right: best to test it directly

[@tricky2k]

We were missing your Mad Scientist experiments, glad you're back!

[@brightnovastar]

I will try this with PLA pro.... amazing video.

[@DJPhilTBCollins]

I'm just grateful nothing bad happened to my favorite Heavy Metal Ben Franklin.

[@Nitram_3d]

Nice work.. So the parts doesn't seem to crystallize ( no shrinkage ).. have you tried to "dry" them before the heat test?? a follow up would be interesting..

[@AlexKenis]

Apparently the crystallinity is higher but a different type/order... honestly I couldn't find much at all on the subject, and most was about testing PLA recycling solvents. Im working on a follow-up for physical properties, so ill do another sweep to see if there is any other info out there and then post the links. There were a few papers that looked promising but they were behind paywalls, so Im going to see if I have any hookups that can grab them for me. Strangely, if you look at the fast forward footage of the "cone" test, you can see how the size of both samples increases, but then the control sample shrinks unevenly. I honestly know virtually nothing about ordered vs disordered crystal structures past 101 level chemistry, but I'll do some homework before the next video

[@jiriprachar1145]

Just a thought.. Is it permanent? I mean, that there is a possibility that ethanol is just soaked and can evaporate from the PLA in a longer time.

[@hapskie]

Very curious to know if substituting ethanol by IPA would be a working option. Have you thought of trying that? PS glad you're back, I missed your ramblings ;)

[@3D_Printing]

1:37 Cooling the Hot Printer Bed, after the print, using a Peltier cell

[@TheDgdimick]

It's ABOUT TIME you posted. You're the last 3d printer I watch, the rest are just rehashed content.

[@AlexKenis]

HA yeah sorry, it's been nuts. More wacky vids coming soon /fingerscrossed

[@MetalheadAndNerd]

@@AlexKenis Another interesting topic would be the habit of PLA filament to get brittle and break when bent or straightened against it's curvature from the spool for a while which makes it break loose from the holes in the spools which were supposed to hold the end. I even had PLA that broke into segments while on the spool. I guess it was wound up in cold state by the manufacturer or seller.

[@TheDgdimick]

@@AlexKenis It's all good, as long as you're safe, then everything else is just background noise.

[@TheDgdimick]

@@MetalheadAndNerd I've done a LOT of testing on PLA, and PLA drying. One of the "odd" things I've found is if I have a PLA that is brittle it seems to help if I drop it into the dehydrator for 5+ hours at about 135F. The really hard part of testing the filament when it randomly breaks is even a spool purchased from the same batch will not display the same brittleness. I THINK the low heat does something other then drying, since PLA doesn't change weight by more the about 2 to 3 grams, or about 1%, What is being out gassed here is a big question, I don't think it's water, however, I have no proof it isn't. I've also found ABS doesn't take up all the water people claim it does, even after a week of 100% submersion it only takes up about 2grams as well. Bottom line I guess, is there's a LOT of science we are not able to test, just because most of us lack access to the advanced tools needed for more testing.

[@MetalheadAndNerd]

@@TheDgdimick Denis Dimick I believe that the manufacturers either wind up the filament before it has cooled down completely or there is some delay in the crystallization process and they simply wind it immediately after extrusion and cooling. After that the filament has the radius of it's winding imprinted somehow. When the filament then is forcibly straightened out or bent against its curve it becomes brittle within a couple of days and sometimes snaps without being touched. The same happens if filament is re-wount onto another spool in cold state. I have experimented with pieces of filament which had the issue and it was clear that only the few centimeters which were bent had become hard while the rest of the spool was unchanged. I tried heating such filament up to 75°C and I believe it was less brittle afterwards but I'm not sure. What worked better was to heat the filament up with a hair dryer until it became soft and the cooling it down. Unfortunately this experiment was without any temperature control. In other experiments I ruled out moisture and UV light as causes for the filament becoming brittle. It seems to be purely mechanical stress. What I find interesting is that this effect of PLA becoming brittle by being statically bent seems to vanish after the material was used to print something. Maybe we are observing an effect similar to the 5 different crystalline structures that chocolate can develop depending on the temperature gradient when cooling down. Also there must be a reason why not all brands of PLA suffer from this issue.

[@tablatronix]

Are you concerned with having only used the one type of pla ? I notice translucent pla tends to be brittle, suggesting a difference in composition to other colored pla.

[@tablatronix]

oh I do see you used some black also

[@tablatronix]

Also did you check your toaster for hot spots? ( those in middle could fail faster if hotter, even in convection maybe ), You can test with a grid of marsh-mellows or parchment paper. I am definitely going to test this and see, I use pla in hot environments.

[@AlexKenis]

I did use black a few times, and some baby blue just to see if the pigment would be an issue. The toaster is not TOO bad but not perfect... it's best in the middle. that's why I used several controls in different positions and used those as a reference instead of temp. I'll have to rig a more repeatable setup in the future

[@erickwoodard9991]

What if you used the alcohol in a sponge-like in a filament oiler as it's printed ......... I know its flammable but if it doesn't catch fire could that help aneal the PLA better.....just wondering......btw really enjoy the information you pass on

[@SianaGearz]

Doesn't work like that. You can't just make PLA crystalline, then print it, and hope that it's still crystalline. After fully melting, it is amorphous. You need to convert the PLA structure after the print is printed! Alcohol will have completely evaporated before it can act really, before filament is fully melted - it might even foam it up in the process, which is bad for print cohesion and strength.

[@erickwoodard9991]

@@SianaGearz I gotcha.....I just didn't know if the heat of the nozzle would help the process along. Great Stuff

[@ellisgl]

I was thinking treat the PLA before printing, so it's evaporated off before printing.

[@claws61821]

Actually, thinking about it, this would be a good way to remove contaminants *other than dust* from the surface of the filament before printing it, so *if* it didn't introduce too many new problems of its own, that might be a better pretreatment than the oil sponge...

[@crunch6912]

Crystallization of Amorphous Poly(Lactic Acid) Induced by Vapor of Acetone to Form High Crystallinity and Transparency Specimen Crystallization of amorphous poly(lactic acid) (PLA) was investigated by exposing to vapor of acetone. The vapor of acetone induced crystallization of the amorphous PLA effectively. It took about 24 min to complete the crystallization of a 1 cm × 2 cm × 0.55 mm specimen at 25℃. The crystallization rate increased with increasing of conducting temperature. The crystallization method yielded high crystallinity about 40%, which was almost equal to that attained by annealing or immersion methods conducted as references. The specimens crystallized by the vapor showed higher transparency than those prepared by the reference methods. The crystallization was induced by diffusion of acetone into the amorphous phase of PLA, and polarized optical photomicrographs cleared that the diffusion obeyed Fick type diffusion.

[@boherrmannsen8219]

Alex you forgot to use a dustfilter on the filament soaked with everclear :-D

[@alqurtass]

just stumbled to your channel you are awesome hope you get well soon thanks for the content

[@prahjister]

Where did you get inspiration?

[@AlexKenis]

I thought had mentioned it in the video, but looks like I didn't. I read a paper a few years ago about electrospun plastic treatments where they mentioned ethanol as a possible treatment in... WHATEVER industry it was

[@Dave_the_Dave]

@@AlexKenis maybe this one? link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10973-019-09191-8

[@Bajicoy]

I have heard of acetone treating ABS but this is the first I have heard of alcohol treating PLA, cool Edit: ethanol treating PLA, my bad

[@ellisgl]

Apparently MEK is supposed to smooth PLA.

[@avejst]

Great tests Thanks for sharing👍😀

[@andybarnett4060]

Nice to see you back! Interesting vid, but seems like a waste of alcohol to me (hic!)...

[@helge1104]

Use full info this, now on my to do......... thanks dud.

[@myrrhan]

Push like before watching!

[@davidwillmore]

Is 151 proof "everclear" a PA thing? It's pure EtOH here in IN. Glad you are feeling better. If you have any left, try some 50/50 whiskey/everclear. ;). Your prints will look better and you won't care as much about your printer misbehaving. For a while at least. ;)

[@AlexKenis]

151 proof here is a recent thing, but apparently we can't get 191 unless you prove that it is for 'lab use', so I didn't bother trying. good to know about the denatonium benzoate thing... apparently I have been misteken for for decades, BUT I just recently realized I have been misspelling 'restaurant' my whole life i'll just consider this a 'personal growth period'

[@3sotErik]

Nice vid. Go to the liquor store, load up your shopping cart with a ton of alcohol & tell the clerk you're having a 3D party tonight.

[@DaneSaysStuff]

A fellow Pennsylvanian! My condolences....

[@notsonominal]

Alcohol is always the (a?) solution, but dang!

[@3D_Printing]

15:30 Too drunk LOL

[@lotechgreg]

Just a " Hope yer doing well/great in thes.... Ya know if I hear one more person say, " In these troubling times, .. I'm gonna take a life"... anyway, hope your OK, looking forward to more vid's. ... Will be here when you're ready/feel'n it. ... PEACE, or, ... controlled/focused violence, .. whatever works best............. No idiots, (ME), were harmed posting this.............. Maybe telling you I was listening to Primus- Professor Nutbutter's House of Treats, while writing this explains me better..... Anyway ... Keep do'in what you do........................................

[@alexkayman8483]

Короче, брызгаем PLA спиртом после печати и он становится прочнее.

[@AlexKenis]

Pretty close to that

[@Evilslayer73]

awesome :)

[@johndegnan5703]

Silly Alex.. Everything is better with booze!

[@hkravch]

Yay, he's back! Also, FIRST.

[@thebeststooge]

Hehehehehe.

[@YoshiOST]

Noice