In conversation with Sir Ivan Rogers

[@barrywbaker]

I've now watched two full lectures by Sir Ivan and, while he is superbly clear about how we got here, what mistakes we have already made and what pitfalls we are likely to face in the future, he has never explained if there is still anything positive to look forward to post-Brexit, even though in his UCL lecture he also criticised remainers for seeing only the downsides of leaving the EU. I suspect this is because he actually can't see any positives either.

[@annov7500]

Thank for upload.

[@michaellorke1980]

probably because there aren't any

[@richardshannon3973]

@@michaellorke1980 total rubbish. The Uk is already looking up, companies are already investing in the UK. It is only those remainer MP's and peers that are looking after their own interests. None of them care about the UK or the electorate, they are only interested in their own interests. The corrupt civil servants in Whitehall are no different. You can look as much as you like at the MP's declared interests, but that is all they are, they are only declaring what they are legally bound to declare. It is the undeclared interests and incomes that needs to be looked at.

[@michaellorke1980]

@@richardshannon3973 I gather you are getting your information from the sun or the daily mirror?

[@claudeghendrih762]

@@richardshannon3973 Well that might be interesting , could you provide us with at least a few examples of such upsides so that we might evaluate the truthfulness and relevance (scope wise) of your assertions ? Same goes for the 'corrupted ' self serving civil servants and MPs assertion , so far it seems anyone not aligned with your views must be corrupted whilst I have been amply disquieted by rather paradoxical moves from vocal brexiteers such as Mogg , Dyson and consorts

[@unzicek]

I wish the nice lady would stop making the "um" sound every two seconds :) Bit annoying, to be honest. Other than that, interesting discussion. Thanks!

[@bartdrenth3753]

unzicek once you notice that it is impossible to focus on the conversation

[@cavendish009]

I think the Chairman (person) is terrible. Her input is of no help and she seems to ask some pretty pointless questions ! My opinion - apologies !!

[@fburton8]

@@cavendish009 I wouldn't go that far. I think she facilitated the discussion pretty well. The sounds of agreement were distracting though! Someone should have muted her mic.

[@Kelkschiz]

It's so incredibly annoying. Such a shame.

[@timbookatuncommonsense8778]

unzicek she says "UM" quite a lot because she is slightly more/ experience than the EU's transistors, agolopies I meant translators, As she said she will try to get it "RIGHTER" Next time

[@LostSpider]

don't blame the EU for this mess, dificult to negotiate with some one who doesn't know were is going or what it wants (apart from the list of unicorns and other magic creatures)

[@sallysmith920]

Although UK is blaming the EU at every turn.

[@ultramarinetoo]

14:30 "So is there anything the British can do?" Maybe make up their minds where they want to go? Try diplomacy? Or even just basic manners? Prison, punishment beatings, EUSSR, cake, all the cards, "the Enemy" ... (and that's just senior cabinet level)

[@richardshannon3973]

Whatever has been suggested, the EU have faltly said an absolute no right the way through. To be completely honest, I would have walked away from them a long long time ago with the parting shopt, if you wish to negotiate then I am all ears, but negotiate like professionals and adults rather than spoilt schoolchildren. Although it is Merkel behind all of this, she is the one pulling al the strings, the likes of Tusk, Juncker or even the rest of the EC, they do not matter, it is the word of Merkel all the time. I have no doubt that certain quarters will say otherwise, but they only have to do some homework, a little research, a little reading if they can read, a litlle bit of comprehension, and they wills ee for themselves.

[@duprattcarol]

@@richardshannon3973 The only thing Merkel promised the Irish Republic was that the backstop would not be cast aside without an good alternative and that the EU would try to find a solution until the last minute.

[@georgedoorley5628]

@@duprattcarol that border is coming back to center stage again .................looks like the break up of the uk is going to be one of the prices of brexit ........................

[@iane427]

Extremely interesting. Only downside was the interviewer saying hm every second.

[@redpeony]

But who is going to explain all this to the uneducated who voted for Brexit!!!!!!

[@cavendish009]

A lot of us knew all of this before the referendum. Don't think we were all stupid. Read EUReferendum.com and get informed.

[@gloin10]

@@cavendish009 "A lot of us knew all of this before the referendum"? Oh course you did..... Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! "Don't think we were all stupid"? Lots of Brixiteers are, most definitely, very, very stupid. The rest, being very charitable, were, and are, deeply ignorant.

[@richardshannon3973]

@Steve Kelsey PArt of the problem for the remainers was clear, they had v ery little if any knowledge of how the EU has been working over the years. They have also beleived far too much of the Project Fear that has been spread not only by remain supporting corrup[t MP's, it has all been dreamt up by the corrupt civil servants. Despite the Project Fear consistantly being proved rubbish, some people are very gullible. I voted Leave and would do it again and again. I have vast experience of the EU and its processes, I could see by reading the Treaty's over the years, every single Treaty has all stated clearly about further integration and One Europe. I hasten to add, I have never liked what was going on from the very satr and I dislike it even more today. The EU is no more than a management if you like but, one particular manager wants to rule the world, never mind what others say, it is her vision that Germany must be supreme and Germany must rule the world.

[@richardshannon3973]

To make it clear, I voted for Brexit and I can assure you, I am far from umeducated. I have been involved with the EU one way or another over the years, since we were conned into it in fact. I have never liked what I have seen and I totally dislike what I see today. Part of the problem is, there are many uneducated people out there, and it appears from your comment you are within that group, who have not got a clue as to the woreking of the EU, you have not got a clue what the various Treaties say. I could give you a very in-depth history lesson on the EU, but here is not the place, if I did, then you would change your mind. Maybe you should think a little and do some research before insulting people.

[@richardshannon3973]

@Steve Kelsey I accept some of what you say. However, I have states clearly that I have experience of the EU, since we were conned into joining up, in fcat we were not asked if we wanted to join the EU, it was a deal done behind closed doors. I have heard Sir Ivan speak before and I like his speaches and honest as he can be, answers. However, the fact remains he is going to cover his own backside all the time, he is a retired civil servant. Look how he covered the question on Olly Robbins as an example. He never stated that it was Robbins who inserted the backstop that the EU cherish so dearly now, he never covered the point of what the Uk has given to the EU in the so-called negotiations, he brushed over the point about tensions between the Chief Negotiator and the Secretary of State and so on. If you read the Civil Service Code, it quite clearly states "always act in a way that is professional and that deserves and rretains the confidence of all those with whom you have dealings". Robbins has clearly broken this first rule, because he did not hold the trust and confidence of not one Secretary of State, but two. Under the term Honesty, "you must not deceive or knowingly mislead minsters, PArliament or others". Has Robbins not deceived and misled ministers, has he not been honest and upfront with to senior ministers? I have not concerned myself too much with the financial side of the matter, as I am no accountant and being honest do not completely understand the financial side of things. What I do object to though is, when the EU came out with the figure of £39bn as a divorvce settlement and then senior EU officials saying, the UK must be punished in whate ver way possible including financial, that raises my suspicions. On from that, the UK did ask for a complete breakdown of how they arrived at the figure of £39bn, bearing in mind that we are still paying into the black hole. I am not aware that the full breakdown statement ever arrived, certainly nothing has ever been said about it. Even so, there are too many officials from the EU with an opinion of what we have o give up so as to ensure that we can leave the EU. As far as I am concerned, and this is my professional opinion as a trained negotiator, yopu give absolutely nothing away unless you have to. You do not decide to leave the membership of the local club and then have to negotiate and hand over money, you walk away. I can accept that the UK pays for its committments until the end of 2020, but certainly not pay into the black hole for years to come or compensate the EU becasue we no longer have any trust or confidence in them. There is an excellent book only available through Capital and Conflict called How the Euro Dies. It is heavy reading and you need some understanding of fiances, but it is an excellent book and gives an insight into the politics and finances of the EU. It cost me £3.95 for the p&p, well worth buying. As already stated, I voted to leave and will do it again and continue to do regardless of how many votes there are. My last words are, I am not sure if you have heard of the Lisbon Treaty. This Treaty comes into full swing in 2022, by that time, every member state must give up its full sovereignty to the EU. Once that is done, each and every country will lose its identity, they will become part of the wider Europe, full integration, no choices, no vetos, absolutely no say in anything. Shortly after the full implimentation of the Treaty, the EU as we know it will die, it will become United Europe, in other words it will be swallowed up by Merkel's vision of a Federal State of Germany in all but name. Merkel's vision is, and she will get what she wants as she always does, Germany must be supreme and Germany must rule the world. Europe will be a very dangerous place politically, having in mind that the EU was set up originally for Germany and France, france has been pushed back by Merkel. I could give a very in-depth history lesson including all the legalities, here is not the place to do that. I stand by everythin g that I have stated.

[@Katharating]

Do it the Seinfeld way: Pretend it never happened.

[@felixwheatley8324]

is it Olly Robins on the front rank?

[@josephjohnston8573]

This woman is grunting every twenty seconds. She's in the wrong job.

[@YouD0ntSay]

She should be in a Wimbledon tennis match.

[@CharlieVane21]

Jill's mmm ing every 5 seconds was extremely annoying.

[@exundfluriba]

My question would have been, if there is a second referendum and remain wins, what would be the attitude of the 27 other members to the UK in the future, including compensation for the expenses incurred by MSs preparing for an event that never occurred because the UK changed its mind at the last minute.

[@kevinbuckley8458]

Whatever the expense it will be a dam sight less than leaving.

[@nemoxx162]

I think UK must leave. Damage is done. 50% or more of UK people and politicians have no idea how EU works. If UK politicians can lie in TV day after day. UK has big problem. And from my point of view UK political system is not fit for 21 century.

[@HondoTrailside]

Leaving is laid out in the Rules and the UK can cancel the process, and then start it all over again as often as it likes.

[@nemoxx162]

@@HondoTrailside This is possibility. It will be fascinating watch how will UK inner political scene react. I see politic often as too expensive reality-TV show. Is necessary, but sometimes broken.

[@ffi1001]

My belief now is that the UK has now left. Now they have gone I think the Eu will look to make it more punitive to leave and more painful than brexit was. Perhaps with a time period of cooling off say 10 years before you are able to rejoin. Although seeing the absolute carnage of brexit I don’t think anyone would want to leave. Why make your lives worse and trade more difficult. At least in 10+ years when the uk is flagging they can point there and say look at what’s left of the uk (Wales, England, perhaps NI not not Scotland) and do you really want to end up like them? Madness

[@worldofameiso5491]

Jill Ritter, what a nutter...

[@julientabulazero103]

The constant humming is unbearable. Once you notice it, you cannot concentrate on what Sir Ivan Rogers may have to say. I am very sorry Mrs Rutter but you have an incredibly annoying verbal tic.

[@Detector1977]

Putting is simply, the UK WILL be treated like Norway, Switzerland etc cause the UK will be a 3rd country like ANY other.

[@JerzyFeliksKlein]

neither Norway nor Switzerland are "any other" country, they both have agreed to specific concessions whether customs union or EEA

[@Detector1977]

@@JerzyFeliksKlein Ok, they will be treated WORSE than Norway and Switzerland. But I still think the UK will eventually agree to some kind of similar deal as those nations...

[@Paul_C]

@@Detector1977 not likely. As it stands you are royally screwed. Tick-Tock.

[@ffi1001]

@@Detector1977 here from the future. You got a terrible deal

[@Detector1977]

@@ffi1001 totally predicted...

[@gkelly34]

He needs to be drafted in to government immediately ffs!

[@iamreg1965]

He was, but resigned because the UK Government had no plan for leaving the EU. What can you do when you're working for idiots?

[@Jamie_Johnson]

@@iamreg1965 Good. Who wants a remainer throwing cogs in the wheels? We've had enough of that

[@iamreg1965]

@@Jamie_Johnson "remainer"!!!! we've left already if you hadn't noticed. You're obviously quite happy letting the idiots run the show aren't you Jamie. Do long words give you a headache?

[@Jamie_Johnson]

@@iamreg1965 He is and was a remainer, so it's the correct term to use. Yes, I'm delighted at how things have turned out. After years of betrayal, we now have people willing to honour the the will of the people as expressed in the 2016 referendum. Cheer up though....maybe we can have another in 40 years.

[@iamreg1965]

@@Jamie_Johnson "Will of the people" Ha...that's a joke. You have absolutely no idea what each and everyone of the 37% of the electorate voted for in June 2016. A small number perhaps voted to make the UK white again. Others maybe wanted a deal like Norway as expressed by Farage. Some may have wanted full access to the SMCA with no compunction to pay or abide by the rules as put forward by most Vote Leave proponents like Hannan. A very small handful were prepared to leave completely on WTO terms although they were almost conspicuous by their absence in the run up to the vote. So, Jamie, pick the "will of the people" out of that fucking lot.

[@Johnnyfive55]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhuhu stop grunting Jill. Had to turn it off

[@dasmaurerle4347]

32:38....whaaat?

[@Stafford674]

I am 20 minutes into this discussion and I have not heard a single word from Sir Ivan on the interests of the British people. It does not seem to be on his agenda. He seems very much alive to the needs and thinking of EU Technocrats. Is this typical of British civil servants?

[@HondoTrailside]

Not fair. That is like saying a general is on the other side because he spends all his time thinking what the enemy will do and how to respond to it.

[@YouD0ntSay]

He is analysing the situation. It is not his job to interpret what Brexit means. He's made quite clear how it means different things to different fractions, and so there isn't any single "interest" of the people. Ask Reesmogg or Redwood and their interest is "blood on the streets" and no regulation at all, so they can maximise profits, exploitation and tax evasion. Ask certain businesses and it's in the interest if the UK to go for membership in the CU, which is hell for the ERG fraction. Ask NI or Gibraltar, and they want full membership of the SM including FoM. The whole dilemma is that there is no single interest, and if there is the UK's people don't know it and never will agree on it.

[@Stafford674]

My point is that like many British civil servants, the interests of the people who employ him and pay his salary appear to be of little importance to him

[@ffi1001]

@@Stafford674 dude there is no benefit in leaving the EU unless you’re a super wealthy tax dodger. Duh! If you came here looking for hope you’re not gonna find it here

[@HondoTrailside]

Ms Rutter, sounds as though she is rutting.

[@cowbanchalam9725]

Still waiting for some words of wisdom from his successor, the bearded wonder. All I've seen of him is him sitting opposite Michel Barnier's prepared team without a pen or notebook, or following Theresa, carrying her bags. How much does he get for just nodding his head?

[@Mulberry2000]

only none Brits would find this annoying

[@garypowell8638]

Sir Ivan Rogers reminds me of my mother. Very good at telling you what you should not do, but bloody awful at telling you what you should do. There is a thousand reasons not to join the stage, go into business, or join a rock band, and only a few reasons to do it, all of which may not happen, or work satisfactorily. Unimaginative and non creative bureaucrats understandably love the status quo, while there minds are concerned with issues which don't interest the vast majority, as these people are DISINTERESTED. They don't worry about a potential WW3, because they don't intend to fight in one, and why should they? They are not interested in British diplomatic power, because they don't have any power, and are very unlikely to get any. They are not worried about retaining a EU subsidy, because they don't currently receive one. To cut a long story short, they are not interested in most, if not all of what people like Sir Ivan Rogers have to say on this or any other matter because these issues do not affect their particular lives, and are very unlikely to do so in the future. Why should they care about the future prospects of several British or otherwise multinational corporations, civil-servants pensions or promotion prospects, geo-political considerations in general, or any of the rest? Especially when governmental institutions as well as those that parasite upon them, clearly don't give a F..., about them, never have and NEVER WILL? All they care about to a very great extent is the standard of living and general quality of life, for that of their families and communities. At least 12 years of these falling for the majority, is WHY WE ARE WHERE WE ARE. If our owners had made perfectly sure that this was not the case, we would not be where we are. It really is that simple. It is not the people who have failed, it is people like Sir Ivan Rogers.

[@richardshannon3973]

Although I have listened to many of his lectures and I respect the man for whom he is but, the absolute unforgivable fact is, he is part of the establishment and will not under any circumstances slate them despite knowing that the senior establishment figures are known to be corrupt and incompetent and mess up everything they touch, he still will not tell the whole truth. Maybe it is the case that he knows the full truth but is unwilling to recognise it as the truth. Typical civil servant.

[@Milo-wl2if]

You surely weren’t listening, Sir Ivan Rogers explained the missteps taken by the British Government at each stage, principally because they chose not to listen to the advice of people with real understanding of how the EU operates. Any advantage in negotiations was lost immediately, but Brexit was always a doomed project precisely because the coalition that forced it over the line had conflicting interests and there has never Benn a common vision for what post Brexit Britain should be. Dismissing people like Sir Ivan as “the establishment “ whatever is meant by that, is a large part of the folly that has delivered the U.K. to its current perilous position.

[@Iazzaboyce]

Never in UK history has so much been owed to so many by so few. What is the evidence the people of the UK wanted to be part of a united states of Europe? What could the UK have done had it not been for those few?

[@stoobydootoo4098]

The Treaty of Rome 1957.

[@Jamie_Johnson]

@@stoobydootoo4098 What about it?

[@stoobydootoo4098]

@@Jamie_Johnson It was the year I was born. Coincidence? I THINK NOT! The Treaty stated that the intention was always ever closer union. This would have been raised by the leave supporters in the lead up to the 1975 referendum. Remain won by a factor of 2:1. Also, by that time the leavers would also have known that currency union was the intention since before the UK's accession in 1973. The UK government was in favour of this at that time, & it was not until the UK was forced to leave the ERM in 1992 that governments changed their minds.

[@Jamie_Johnson]

@@stoobydootoo4098 The British people voted in 1975 about being part of the EEC. Not an ongoing process of political union. Also the currency union was always optional. And we wisely opted not to adopt it.

[@stoobydootoo4098]

@@Jamie_Johnson Wrong - 1) As I clearly stated in my response to you, in 1975 Leave campaigners (& politicians particularly), had the opportunity to express their concerns about those matters. I can't be bothered to check out who said what in 1975, but these are the facts. 2) Joining the currency union is no longer optional for any new applicants.

[@ed1726]

ha, I like that. I want my sovereignty. Here you are, now what will you do with it? Er, I dunno!

[@NaumRusomarov]

Mhm... mhm... mhm...

[@irisha4ka]

Wtf stop mmming

[@timbookatuncommonsense8778]

I oppose your use of the UK as a further bargaining chip in your federal exploits

[@MrMwhiting]

Never underestimate your enemy. The Establishment did over Brexit and the democrats did the same over Donald Trump's election. The people didn't fall for the bull shit. Respect democracy and sign the UK open petition for a no deal Brexit 362,509 MBGA MAGA

[@ffi1001]

You’re deluded

[@louisbanaszak3125]

borris leave or start looking for new jobs

[@timbookatuncommonsense8778]

Instead of staying in a Custom union, Why can't we just have a harmonious relationship between currencies just like the currency speculaters çan see the difference between the two values instantly. Then why can't we as the UK and the EU equalise both currencies?

[@richardshannon3973]

Quite simple really, the EU goosestep lovers will not have that type of system, they will not have the control. The EU, specifically Germany and France although more Germany will not allow anything where they are losing any power, they do not do equals, they do not do fairness, and most of all, they do not do democracy.

[@Paul_C]

@@richardshannon3973 stability of currency? That has to do with trade and production. Your strength is services, and when you leave the pound will reduce in value because you left. Thus London will loose business, that goes back to the EU. Sure, you will trade, just at a lower level.

[@fasteddie4551]

:

[@richardshannon3973]

The only issue that is holding everything up is, the Backstop inserted by an incompetent civil servant. If the backstop had not been inserted or even suggested, then it would not have been the stumbling block. The EU flatly refuse to give any legally binding assurances that the UK will be trapped in a customs union or tied to the EU for as long as they require to continuously syphoning off money and control the UK. However, it is galling to even contemplate that a civil servant who, should be nowhere near any negotiations, it is not their job, to be the Chief Negotiator and Chief Advisor. In effect running the show. According to the Civil Service Code, civil servants are there to advise and support the government, it is not their job to run the country and demand that they run the show. The PM has been told to remove the civil servant but ignored the instruction, why? As for a trade deal, there was absolutely nothing on the ballot paper that a trade agreement had to be negotiated. That can be done aftyer we leave, we the majority of the electorate just require the PM top deliver on leaving the EU on 29th March. Do any negotiations after that, in the meantime we trade under WTO rules.

[@iamreg1965]

Yes Richard, lets trade under WTO rules and then negotiate afterwards. All fine and dandy. But France, especially, will DEMAND fishing rights. Spain, Gibraltar. The EU as a whole will demand reductions on all sorts of shit that you've never thought of that the UK actually enjoys now. Go on then Richard, demand a return to the troubles in Ireland and run to the Donald.

[@fredricknietzsche7316]

Your cartoon summation will never see reality.

[@richardshannon3973]

France can demand what they like, it does not mean they have got the right to our waters and it does not mean that they will be given any rights to our waters. What is the problem with their own limits, they hate the British boats going into their waters, but they must have access to ours. You mention Gibraltar, Gib have every right to fish in our waters, they are British and that is the way that the people wish to remain. Spain as well as France have raped their own waters over the years, remember the quota system where Biritsh boats were pulled out of the sea and burnt because of the EU quota system, where France and Spain and other EU countries have been allowed to come into our waters and catch whatever they like in whatever quantities they like, and nobody can say anything about it, it is te EU right. Sorry I do not go along with that. The UK has a 12 mile limit then it is International water then the Frogs have their limit. Let the British boats fish in our waters and let the Frogs fish in theirs, let the Spanish fish in theirs. It is only because of the skewed in favour of mainland Europe or more to the point, the EU yet again, that the Spanish, French and whoevevr else wishes to come into our waters have been allowed to do without a word being said. Our own people if they caught waht the Frogs, the Spanish and whoever else caught, they would be hammered, but because it is under the EU and everything is in favour of all the other states, the Brits lose out. The sooner we are out of everything concerneing the EU the better, I cannot wait. And god help any of these MP, civil servants or peers who have and are frustrating our exit despite what the electorate have demanded continue to do so, the backlash will be more than they can bare. It is obvious that you are a remainer, there are lots of positives already happening in the UK on the pretense of leaving the EU. We have had record investment into the UK since the rreferendum, we have record employment figures in the UK, we have countries lining up to sign trade deals with the UK, and to top it all, many of you clowns do not realise that we already trade under WTO rules as does the EU. It is only the point that the EU are desparate for our money and they are desparate to control us like they do the rest of the EU, that they do not want us to leave. On top of that, once we have left, the EU are frightened that the UK will flourish. The German industry have already been warned that they face severe cuts in their suibsidy's due to the lack of money.

[@richardshannon3973]

I am well aware of the fact that a civil servant was allowed to insert any such clause. The civil servants should not be doing the negotiations anyway, it is not their job, they are only their to support the government and parliament, it is not their job to be in charge of anything acept their pen and a writing pad. Olly Robbins should have been kicked between the legs for that treachery, but this uselss cow May has supported him throughout, even to the point of not doing what she was told to do by parliament - go back to the EU and demand that the backstop is removed. My argument is clear, if it were not for the backstop, then everything would have floated through parliamnt and we would have been out of the EU's clutches now. I probably know more about the EU and its workings than you will ever know, I have been involved in it since its inception as well as having to study it doing my degree. But the problem is the civil servants, remove them completely and things will change, but May will not remove them, she will not even change any member of the so-called negotiating team that has totally stuffed everything up, although that is no surprise where te civil servants are concerned, they stuff up everything they touch, the difference being, they are not elected and are very rarely taken to task, they just laugh and continue as they know best.

[@HondoTrailside]

@@donmab The problem is the EU gets to decide whether the EU has met a standard. So the UK has no way of knowing they will ever be let off the hook. I suspect you are suggesting that a real solution is not available, and maybe that is true.

[@ScoTreVan]

Freedom to move across borders with sensible restriction... A GOOD THING! Once we have left, and certainty prevails, investment will surely increase. Since the referendum, (the "people" voted to leave by the way..😊 ) the country has gained far more jobs than the scaremongers predicted we would lose (and that was just on the act of voting to leave😅!..). Employment is at an all time high, with a significant overall rise in wages. Despite all the contrived brexit uncertainty, we still demonstrate a faster expanding economy than the rest of the EU, and we haven't even left yet!! When we do, our global importance will rise considerably, especially now as the EU is quite evidently imploding, and clearly well passed its sell by date. Brexit is the first step towards the people of Europe finally regaining freedom from the corrupt institutions of the EU. By the way, competition is a good thing, especially when free from the protectionist racket that summarises the EU. Our competitiveness going forward is the EU's greatest fear, and rightly so, as soon to be realised... I know this all goes against your clearly held belief, and your genuine perspective, but I'm afraid the facts are perfectly verifiable, and the predictions for a flourishing future outside of the failing EU will soon become very apparent, but maybe not as soon as I'd like thanks to all the connivance of fanatical remainers. A formula of failure indeed! 👍 God bless the people of Europe, but down with the EU, and the sooner the better for all... eventually. 😉 Best wishes.. 👍

[@nemoxx162]

Yes down with EU!!! I want back old good times 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 old good times. Man can be hero!!!!

[@charlesjaja-sackey2695]

Trevor Lloyd I’m pleased your said “... we haven’t left yet.” Clearly all of these “pluses” are occurring when we’re STILL in the UK and the signs are that it won’t be a hard Brexit.