In 'doorbell recording' case, Phoenix firefighters violated ambulance refusal policy

[@jaredb8495]

Where is the forgery charge for falsely signing her name?

[@kevinkatz7027]

These guys were instructed to play that game, I doubt they did it on their own because in reality, it would make no difference to them... They need to be looking at the captain and on up...

[@paracrazy78233]

My favorite part is how you can see in other videos her having a suitcase packed for her ACUTE EMERGENCY.

[@USMC1984]

I spent 12 years in EMS and I cannot tell you how many times I’ve responded to a residence where the patient had their bags packed waiting for us and NEVER ONCE DID WE REFUSE TRANSPORT!

[@EXROBOWIDOW]

If you've ever had to go to the ER with someone, and experienced the typical wait, you learn to pack some "essentials" for the wait... some water, a few snacks, an extra sweater or blanket, and of course the necessary items like ID and credit card. Plus a change of clothes for the patient if you believe they'll probably be admitted. Not every trip to the emergency room is a life-or-death-within-minutes situation. You may be traveling, and realize that your son may have actually fractured a bone, so he needs to be seen and X-rayed, but he's not gonna die from it, but you're hundreds of miles from home. Besides, it's the weekend, and there's no way he can go to a regular doctor's office. Or, you are at home, but your husband is having weird symptoms, so you go to the nearest "Day and Night" urgent care, only to find out they're locked and dark, and actually they closed at 8 pm and it's now 10 pm, so off to the ER you go. Besides, when you did go to an urgent care during the daytime for his heart symptoms, they sent him along to an ER because they only had a 5-lead EKG, and a 12-lead EKG is needed to get a proper medical understanding of what's going on with his heart. Having some "comfort items" packed along really does help during the long hours of waiting. Making sure the patient has their O2 bottle, and cane or walker, is also very helpful.

[@Bigpopp1]

You know everyone is a critic until it’s you in a situation of need. Don’t judge unless you want to be judged. Hindsight is 20/20 what we know today is definitely different than then. Maybe she was concerned and like she said someone needed to stay with the kid. You want people to make judgements for you I take it. Then later say you want others to stay outta your decisions. Respect others choices. @pharacrazy

[@lovelight6973]

I'm an EMT I've been an EMT for 3 years. Yes we do have the frequent flyers but even so you can't deny transport. Even some of the frequent flyers that I've been working with over the years are starting to get really sick. One woman drives me crazy She has three bags and her walker and her own oxygen Even though she wants to use ours and not hers. She's definitely a regular several times a month since I started being an EMT BUT she's actually been admitted to the hospital like five times in last 6 months. So she is actually getting worse and may pass away sometime in the next year or two. So they while they may not really needed all the time at some point they do. We can't just assume that they're doing the boy that cries wolf every time. We could be wrong that one time and it's not worth it. So they need to be transported.

[@emjay2045]

Why is that your favorite?

[@Robert_kuchar]

Good thing there was ring cam. I doubt they would of been believed

[@james8156]

Why did she not drive herself. The ER is just going to triage her and ambulances should be for life and death emergencies.

[@0524cami]

Covid is life or DEATH!!!!

[@ieatplastic1756]

Maybe she’s not feeling well enough to drive and couldn’t find people to drive her there since she had covid and could spread it

[@james8156]

@@ieatplastic1756 There is no meds that can cure a viral infection. Covid is a viral infection!!!

[@james8156]

@@ieatplastic1756 Covid? If you have Covid there is nothing that any E.R. Can do for a virus right?

[@james8156]

@@ieatplastic1756 Covid is not a treatable illness am I correct? The flu affects everybody unfortunately there’s nothing you and or doctor can do right? Covid policies have changed which I find odd and I find it odd that those who were vaccinated more than twice seem to ha e Covid more than others!!!

[@markpierce3863]

YOU DON'T SAY OR TELL A PATIENT THEY DON'T NEED TO GO. UNLESS THEY VOLUNTEER TO SIGN THE COMPUTER THAT THEY DON'T WANT OUR HELP OR TRANSPORT TO HOSPITAL

[@Jvljvljvl]

Exactly! What’s disgusting is that they refused her service and then forged her signature saying she did.

[@masonah77]

Don’t waste the fire departments time when you can drive yourself to the hospital.

[@Jvljvljvl]

@@masonah77 obviously, you didn’t pay attention to the story. She wasn’t able to breathe that is very dangerous to drive to the hospital in that condition and her son just came back from the emergency room and needed to watch the mom’s little girl. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[@decker528]

Yet she had so much trouble breathing she was able to pack her bags before they got there

[@jamessimms415]

We are investigating ourselves & have found nothing…..

[@emjay2045]

💯

[@tracyeaves1084]

She needs to sue phoenix fired department for refusing her medical care

[@RSKLove]

@2011sliverdude, plenty of ppl will do the job because they actually care about fire victims. You must be talking about the greedy firefighters!

[@boboso7238]

They'll use covid as an excuse if it goes to trial "what were we supposed to do, these hospitals were at capacity because of the super flu! We were under orders!"

[@bobroberts2371]

An ambulance isn't a taxi service. She is treating it like that. And, would complain about the cost.

[@RSKLove]

@@bobroberts2371 , you’re predictions are based on what data exactly? Do you know her or her ailments? Rigidity is never the answer when someone’s health is in question! What is wrong with you? Sociopath? Psychopath? Dark empath? Narcissistic? Which one are you?

[@bobroberts2371]

@@RSKLove The vid said that she had covid and that her son didn't WANT to drive her to the hospital. The ambulance ride would have been just that, a ride as they would have been doing anything to treat her. You really need to get a radio scanner and listen to big city ambulance calls, many are for things that don't require emergency services. I guess you would be OK with an ambulance being a taxi when a person in an immediate life threatening event has to wait.

[@keithburcalow8130]

If the EMT and Paramedic declines to transport an individual to the hospital, then you are in the wrong line of work. I am an EMT, with 40 years under my belt and have never refused anyone.

[@runoz2839]

Ty, God Bless You 🙏

[@runoz2839]

@@anneo6476 privatized... not employed by hospitals like they use to be... 🙄

[@Moneymike29]

You’re the problem

[@jquizzlestick]

@@Moneymike29I’ve been a Paramedic for 31 years. The system is so broken. People like this abuse the system and know how it works. Ambulances are transporting non emergency patients. They could drive themselves or have a family member take them. Or, go to an Urgent Care. People think there is an endless supply of ambulances. As far as the EMT goes, good for you champ, you are part of the problem.

[@Rocky12323]

You clearly don't understand what is going on here. Also, the Paramedic was not on a transport unit. He was on a fire truck.

[@Sunstar808]

Do paramedics and EMTs really care if they transport an individual to the hospital? I suspect higher ups encouraged ambulance operators to deny transportation to the hospital.

[@USMC1984]

22 years on EMS, never once did my administration instruct us not to transport…in fact they wanted us to transport everyone we were called to. No patient, no pay.

[@decker528]

The higher ups want everyone transported. In her case, they did her a favor having her son drive her. They aren't gonna do anything for her en route besides give her a ride. COVID isn't something you need an ambulance for anyway. She had time to pack her bags. She could've called a taxi and not taken another ambulance out of service if she had that much time to plan. She was wasting public resources

[@BobPaulson200]

20 years in fire and EMS: personally no. I ask if they want to go, regardless of how ridiculous it may be. Now a hot button issue is "I walked out this er, crossed the street, and want to go to the one an hour away". Sure hop in: but we're going right back across the street. By policy, my medical directors protocols, and city ordinance I'm allowed to do that.

[@evaninaz1648]

@@Sunstar808 speaking as someone who is a paramedic with a neighboring fire department to Phoenix, the last people who would encourage crews to obtain refusals, the so called “higher ups” you mention would be the answer. Also, as someone who worked through the pandemic responding to exact calls like this, unnecessary exposure was a huge thing to us medics and other first responders. The order of importance of safety taught in any paramedic program is safety of yourself, then crew, then the patient. If someone had Covid, was stable, vitals were within normal limits, they were alert and oriented, and wanted transport, this would be unnecessary exposure. Educating these people on other avenues and options was common. Obviously, the captain didn’t do it in the most professional way but the amount of times I had a pt who claimed Covid, yet was completely and utterly stable with no abnormalities in vitals, oxygen saturations, fever, etc. was astounding.

[@9753flyer]

It's such BS that PHX Fire refuses to answer questions with transparency.. you would think we work for the fire department rather than the other way around... SMDH

[@charleslaitipaya7149]

There aren't unlimited resources. Phoenix ran over 405k calls in 2023 and that's up 20k calls from 2022. Stop calling for non emergencies or rides. The ambulance is not a taxi. This is the reason why they have to pull units from the other side of the city. You get called out for a toe pain at 2 am wanting to go to the hospital. Then leaves your zone uncovered for the heart attack.

[@james8156]

So this ordeal is over a female who didn’t die and obviously didn’t have a major medical emergency that day so what’s the deal?

[@decker528]

They may have saved someone elses life who needed an ambulance by convincing this lady's son to take her to the hospital instead of giving her a ride and being stuck there in an overcrowded ER for hours, especially during COVID where crap like this was keeping EMS systems out of ambulances constantly

[@christophertilley2629]

They used to push the ambo ride on us when I was growing up in the 90s. What changed? A lot!

[@jimkelly6310]

Yes you are right on. Politicians saw increased medical service as a way of convincing people (the taxpayers) that this would be a good thing as it increased taxes. Politicians being the idiots they are thought that it could raise taxes and not have an increase in their budgets. Now since people have been lulled into using this (free) service the monster has emerged. When well intentioned ideas become reality the old adage applies, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[@runoz2839]

$$$ !!!

[@nate3452]

Covid. This was during covid. Covid is what changed.

[@christophertilley2629]

Interesting, so maybe they were looking out for her safety? Knowing the hospitals would use ventilators and kill people?@@nate3452

[@LuckyCookie88]

The abuse of services and the lack of volunteer ems personnel

[@nicolelovesbiggie2269]

This happened to me in Tucson and I think it’s an unofficial protocol for the firefighters to try not to bring in an ambulance to transport someone. I received a surgery the same day I made them take me to the hospital and I have witnessed the firefighters not wanting to transport from an accident when the person was clearly injured.

[@martinburns7928]

BS story

[@Bigpopp1]

@@martinburns7928data says you don’t know what the truth looks like

[@christophero1969]

What is wrong with Phoenix Fire-Fighters and Paramedics???

[@texasmurphy7088]

I have watched MANY Phoenix firefighters refuse to call a rescue for people. They do this all the damn time.

[@phxbornandraised1817]

Go back to Texas loser

[@smorris281]

If it was an issue of time, why did they try to scare them with a $1,500 bill? What is it? The money or time? Why don’t they take some fire apparatus off the road so they can staff more ambulances? I get better care and response time from our local volunteer EMS.

[@phxbornandraised1817]

Lol. It's named PHX FIRE DEPARTMENT not Phx ambulance dept.

[@MelissaBlasius]

@@phxbornandraised1817 The Phoenix fire department is also the ambulance department. They are one in the same.

[@phxbornandraised1817]

@MelissaBlasius Yeah, would you like to explain to a family who's house burns down that the fire dept shut down fire trucks to operate ambulances?

[@masonah77]

Dude they don’t have enough staffing or apparatus to just take off the road

[@decker528]

You don't get better service from your local volunteers😂😂😂😂 That's pretty hilarious though

[@SolaceEasy]

I'm a left-of-left kinda guy and all, but having a policy that "everyone who wants an ambulance gets one" is whack. Uber? Taxi?

[@SolaceEasy]

A ride in the FD captain car? Some other non-emergency option available for transporting patients in this world?

[@Jvljvljvl]

You’re missing the whole point. The fire department does not have the right to decide who gets transportation to the hospital, that is against the law. They cannot diagnose people, they do not know the underlying health issues. Their job is to transport people that request transportation to the hospital. Period. What makes it even more egregious is that they refused her service and forged her signature saying she refused transportation knowing that her son had just come from the emergency room and needed to stay home with a young child.

[@timshields6862]

@Jvljvljvl A paramedic does diagnose to some extent in the field. You would be amazed at what some ppl cal 9 1 1 for. And only need a ride to get somewhere. And if you listen to your local scanner for fire,ems and police you would be shaking your head at times. Like when someone doe not get the right amount of chicken nuggets from the local fast food joint. Or some guy has a pimple on his scrotum and calls 9 1 1 for it. Yeah, some interesting cases for sure. Not defending the above actions of these folks. I wasn't there. But sometimes it takes all kinds of people to make things work. Sometimes it's for thr good, and other times it is not. Public safety is a dangerous business. But sometimes the general public does not make it easy.

[@AbNomal621]

They should find who signed and charge the person with filing a false document.

[@brmam1385]

I’m a retired RN/NP. Multiple yrs ago, I saw a woman lying in the dirt along side the road, about 10’ from the pavement. I’d spoken to her, she was impaired via alcohol or drugs, she was 50’s (?), skinny, & disheveled & dirty. It wasn’t full summer (life threatening heat where I live), but still pretty warm. The local FD came, chatted with her a bit & chatted w/each other & were obviously going to leave her there. My guess is because they recognized her as a “frequent flyer” to community ER’s, something I was also familiar with. However, after I interrupted their preparations to leave, saying “Gentlemen, you’re not seriously going to leave her out here in the sun by the edge of the road,” they regrouped, did her vital signs, loaded her up & off they went. Sometimes, a short reality check is what’s needed.

[@JTJ1991]

They are what's wrong with EMS today. The combination of Fire/EMS seems to focus more on fire and uses EMS as the "punishment". I was going that route until I fell totally in love with the medical side. I still volunteered for fire for years but my focus was the medical. I've left people on the side of the road in the sun before because they refused to go to the hospital. We can't force people to go unless they are not alert and oriented. If they didn't take vitals until after you spoke with them, it's means they pretty much didn't do an assessment and doing the minimum necessary to get the call over with with the least amount of paperwork. That's the wrong attitude in EMS or any medical field. I've seen nurses do the same that in the ER. It's frustrating and only a few times did I go to the docs after speaking with the nurse to inform them of the nature of the patient. No one likes to be that "one" but it's necessary to give them(all of us) a kick in the butt sometimes.

[@dawnhoughton4533]

Who signed her release is public record. Discipline records are public records. These people should be held accountable

[@aaroncrewse5746]

The refusal signature is a protected health care matter, it is not public records. It is part of a patient care report. If someone signs a refusal statement, that would identify them, which goes against HIPAA.

[@veganconservative1109]

On one hand, I'd appreciate being told in advance how much the ambulance would cost. If it was going to cost me financial hardship for years forward, I'd give at least a few seconds thought to alternatives. Refusing to get an ambulance though.... yikes.

[@janetd443]

If the bill was really going to be $1.500, that is good to know. People complain about surprise medical bills so I give the responders credit for the disclosure - if it's true.

[@MedicSD]

So she wanted the ambulance for the convenience so her son could stay at home? She did not need an ambulance. Why don't you do a story on people abusing 911 for a taxi ride to the ED?

[@evanmurphey]

Why tf is it $1,500 to get a ride to the hospital? What a joke, I’d rather die than waste my money

[@Dickybardo87]

All ambulance rides cost money, however you dont pay up front and typically its 100% covered by insurance. All pricing is set by the department of health

[@HESSIAN578]

​@@Dickybardo87 not quite right. Insurance companies won't pay unless it's medically necessary. In her case? Probably, but, not guaranteed. Her vitals WERE stable. She was alert. And she could walk on her own. There really wasn't an absolute emergency at that time. Her son could have (and did) drive her in. Chances are pretty good she would be sitting in either the waiting room or in a bed in back for quite a while while actual emergencies are being dealt with. She's a low priority. And if what FD said about the hospitals closing is true....I guarantee she would wait for a long time. Hospital ERs close to ambulance traffic all the time when they get slammed. Especially since most "emergencies" are things like "6 year old back pain" or "pregnancy tests" and of course "medication refills". Out of 100 "emergency" runs, maybe 10 are actual, true emergencies. Most are people that want to jump the line in front of others.

[@Dickybardo87]

@@HESSIAN578 None of that matters. I've worked in the field for 10 years. It's not our job to diagnose someone, nor is it our job to deny them transport to the hospital if they request to go. You weren't there and neither was I

[@HESSIAN578]

@@Dickybardo87 that's true. We weren't. However, I've been in the field for OVER 20 years. And ALL of us do let them (patients) decide whether they truly want to be transported. And if you really have been doing this for as long as you've said, than I find it very hard to believe that you haven't at least tried to tell someone they don't have to go by ambulance. Only way I would believe that is if you respond to very few calls daily. I'm in a very heavily populated area with hundreds of small and large manufacturing complex's in the tri-county area. So in any 24 hr shift, I pull no less than 10 runs. Usually I have 13 or sometimes 20. All I respond to is 911. There are 20 of my companies trucks on the road almost everyday. There are 2 other private companies in the area with roughly the same numbers available. Then we have all the FD depts for each city running virtually non-stop. We have (in my county alone) 5 hospitals along with around same amount in the other 2 counties. All the private companies have most of their trucks doing basic transfers, taking people to and from DR appointments, dialysis, returning home from hospital visits, transport to psyche facilities etc, etc, etc. But, very few of 911 calls are actual life threatening emergencies. The most are things they could be accomplished by going to urgent care or even as simple as talking to their DR. Virtually none require a very expensive ride with highly trained personnel on board. So, yes, we do let them know of alternatives that are more appropriate. We can't refuse transport but, we can have them sign refusal forms if they agree. All the ERs close to all but the true emergencies that do come in. However, they all take walk-ins everyday, all day. You want to go to hospital A that day, but they aren't taking non-emergent at that time. So your alternative is hospital B or C. We always have to explain that hospitals DO sometimes close their ERs because no one wants to believe it. Your toe pain isn't an emergency or life threat. Your difficulty breathing while you're smoking a cigarette can be eased by not smoking. So YES, we all try to get a refusal.

[@bretthoffman2128]

In any case $1500? For a ambulance ride, in a vehicle we’ve Already Payed For? For Help from Our Beleaguered, overworked 1st Responders? Who again work in our municipality?

[@my2cents945]

this is a big city problem. poor people using the ambulance service as a taxi service. Philly charges also. but somehow a certain class of residents never see a bill. Also, she's scamming. She doesn't want to sit in the waiting room or get chased out and send to a clinic. Ambulance calls should be restricted to EMERGENCY use only. Her's was not an emergency and her lazy nephew seemed very relaxed on the porch. No reason he couldn't have taken her in the first place.

[@0524cami]

so it's poor people using the ambulances like taxi's? You know what happens to someone who arrives by ambulance, and they are not critical.....they are dropped off in the waiting room and told to wait if they don't meet the acuity to be seen quicker. The problem is that so many people are moving around from state to state that the influx of resident is now higher so we need more emergency services.

[@Rocky12323]

@@0524camiNo, the problem is poor people using the ambulances like taxi cabs. Your problem isn't at all the problem, just the escape goat. People on welfare and those that simply don't have financials abuse the 911 system all the time for free rides. And yes it's free for them. Why? because the good old tax payers pay the bill, and there is nothing that can stop these folks other than new legislation. When you use an ambulance as a taxi cab, you are taking a vital and critical community resource out of service. In a place like Phoenix, especially during COVID, their organization is a tons busier with many critical calls then other organization, but if someone simply wants an ambulance to go to the hospital to get food or to get off the streets, you now lost this vital resource for the citizens.

[@my2cents945]

@@0524cami Not in Philly. If you arrive by ambulance you get priority, not sent to a waiting room. It's a big problem in Philly and has made fire rescue wait times climb so bad they now send a fire engine or cop to the calls first. We've signed up with several private ambulance companies because fire rescue is such a $hit show.

[@nochannel1q2321]

Perhaps watch the clip again and listen for when they explain exactly why the son couldn't drive her, aside from his lack of medical equipment and training.

[@Rocky12323]

@@nochannel1q2321 perhaps you should reread my comment, and you would understand that she was in a line for an ambulance and instead of having to wait for one, which she didn’t need for any life threatening imminent death or injuries. Could go POV to the hospital free of charge and would not have to wait. Put the kids in the car and take them with you. It’s not hard.

[@frankietyree1953]

Umm they left my nephew flopping in the driveway have a seizure that was so bad he had to be put in induced coma. So! What is it?

[@Jvljvljvl]

That is so messed up. Have you thought about sharing your story?

[@Rocky12323]

OK, that makes no sense, given they have a paramedic on most of the fire trucks and medications. So someone here is lying.

[@sheerwillsurvival2064]

As a former paramedic. I can tell you everyone uses the ambulance like a taxi . They should drive themselves for a non emergency. They wanted a taxi that’s all .

[@E_Static]

She thought that ambulance ride was going to get her to the front of the line. Would of ended upbin triage anyway

[@CrainialCommando]

It's a condition known as Lazyitis because I'm sure the paramedics get paid just the same to sit around as they do to actually help someone....

[@RSKLove]

They government tit suckers.

[@Mario-t8b8y]

I don’t understand why the publicly funded ambulances charge anyway. There’s a line in my property tax bill with a pretty huge chunk for fire/rescue. Could it be to help pay for those inflated police and fire union pensions after just 20 years of service? Doesn’t seem like a “calling” anymore, it’s just for the benefits.

[@james8156]

Nothing’s free did you ever get a speeding ticket in the city or town that you live in? Are you gonna tell them that you don’t have to pay it because you’re a taxpayer give me a break!!!

[@MisterPhister7]

Wild idea... Not everyone needs to go to the hospital by ambulance.

[@nochannel1q2321]

Wilder: the law at the time prohibited them from counseling someone to not use an ambulance.

[@Bigpopp1]

@@nochannel1q2321laws don’t apply to this 702medic apparently.

[@james8156]

Nobody forced this woman to not go to the hoapital. They stated the facts.

[@nochannel1q2321]

@@james8156 They didn't respond to a medical emergency with an ambulance and then literally violated the state's law by commenting or discouraging a patient from going to a hospital.

[@james8156]

@@nochannel1q2321 they sent an engine company who has paramedics on the engine company am I correct? I don’t know the protocol in the state of Arizona, but I can tell you this much there may not have been an ambulance available at the time. Ambulances are not available because so many people call them for non-emergency situations that all the ambulances are already on other calls!!!

[@brianwilson8119]

We need more details from this story...I have never "persuaded" a patient to refuse, however, after determing that my patients don't necessarily need a squad, I have told them that I'd be more than happy to take them, but they can go by private vehicle to save money.

[@newb4life11]

How about this... Call 911 if its a true emergency... theres taxi's, ubers, relatives, friends...

[@dorothymoya5597]

Am a retired RN,worked in the field for 40.5yrs, n am appalled that this would happen..it is crucial that anyone with shortness of breath get oxygen, and n ambulance with only EMT's has the capability of giving oxygen to a patient while loading them up, n vital signs, listening to chest to see if can hear oxygen exchange in said patient...if the city of phx wants this distinction of being able to provide these services, then maybe they need to retrain..they also get federal funding for this service...EMT'S shoddy reason not to take patient to hospital..needs further investigation n these guys need retraining..

[@james8156]

Paramedics do everything for you RN’s. The medics start iv’s and make your job easy. Nurses have it made because of Paramedics!!!

[@Jvljvljvl]

The fire department does not have the right to refuse service to any person that is against the law. They cannot diagnose people. Their job is to transport people requesting a ride to the hospital. Not only did they refuse her service, but they forged her signature. She was admitted to the hospital with pneumonia immediately put on oxygen and spent several weeks in the hospital. The fire captain Girard Ingallina retired to avoid investigation. Christopher Flores, the fire fighter/EMT who filled out the report saying she refused service is still working. I highly doubt they faced any disciplinary actions.

[@Sondan1988]

What law would that be ? Because in Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales and DeShaney vs. Winnebago, the Supreme Court ruled that police agencies are not obligated to provide protection of citizens. Law Enforcement officers are well within their rights to pick and choose when to intervene to protect the lives and property of others. Why would the fire department be any different ?

[@jeffreypierson2064]

@@Sondan1988 They are not police officers, they are EMTs and paramedics.

[@Jvljvljvl]

@@Sondan1988 It’s in the video, House Bill 2431 which passed into state law.

[@RSKLove]

@@Sondan1988 , 😂, you look so dumb.

[@Sondan1988]

@@jeffreypierson2064 I realize that but qualified immunity applies to fire fighters, paramedics, police, etc.

[@matthewgibson4309]

I am a retired ff/paramedic this attitude is affecting all public safety employees they don't want to do their job, paramedics on 911 ems services should never ask you if you want to go to the hospital if you called 911 the question should be which hospital do you want us to transport you to This lazy attitude is killing America

[@martinburns7928]

You're not aware of the policies that hospitals have now

[@matthewgibson4309]

@@martinburns7928 I did work during the covid crisis and know for a fact that if a person want ems to take them to the hospital you don't talk them out of it, you do your job and transport I would like to know your credentials and years of experience If you have less than 10 in the field than you have not earned the right to an opinion I grew up in a time when a rookie ff emt could not eat in the dining room with us until he/she earned the right to ( about 4 shifts) they had to eat sitting on the tailboard of the engine Unless we grab supper at a restaurant

[@rebekahswanson612]

I’m a medic and I ask all the time if people want to go to the hospital. I also tell them that I recommend that they go to the hospital and let them know that I’m happy to be the one that takes them. I usually spend a much longer time trying to convince someone to go by ambulance if it’s a higher risk refusal. It’s not always a matter of not wanting to work, but rather not wanting to kidnap anyone who doesn’t actually want to go by ambulance. I’ve seen FFs almost kidnap pts that are saying they don’t want to go by ambulance. In this news case however, it was probably laziness 🙄

[@james8156]

As a medic you must work for a private ambulance ( transport ) company.

[@matthewgibson4309]

@@james8156 I always worked for government agencies better treatment as an employee and private ems is always worried about the dollar. In my opinion no private ems should be a 911 provider it doesn't work well for the citizens, private ems will always take 911 trucks and use them for transport services as this is reliable cash flow whereas 911 services are not

[@georglimiux677]

I dont feel like working so no ride for you.

[@diaboulique9177]

I KNOW this is so true because they did the EXACT SAME THING to me when I called 911. They had a gazillion questions and WERE VERY adamant about talking me OUT OF going to the ER

[@E_Static]

When you call for EMS, they will ask a lot of questions, and sometimes they'll ask them multiple times or ways. It's the way they are trained to do patient assessments. Hospitals will ask you the same questions to make sure they have as much information as possible. They should NEVER coerce you to not be transported by ambulance as that is your medical decision. However, don't get offended at having to answer questions. They are certified medical professionals, not ride share drivers there to taxi you around.

[@Art-Dean]

PFD also dropped a man on his face and killed him!

[@dandesjardins937]

Necessary corrective action means they wrote a new policy. Disciplining the FF involved would be an abmission of guilt. If they punished them, the would have said that, or pulled the "HR Matters are confidential" line.

[@nochannel1q2321]

Counseling someone to not take an ambulance is already illegal there. It's mentioned in the clip.

[@Rocky12323]

So it sounds like the ambulance was not refused, but due to the call volume and her condition was stable and she was not in a life threatening situation. She was the deemed a less priority. Therefore, the ambulances could respond to other folks that actually need their assistance for life threatening matters. The firefighters on scene can asses and manage the patient until an ambulance arrives for life threatening conditions, but since she did not need any medical intervention by EMS, but simply "a ride to the hospital." It would be best to take your own POV rather than take a critical resource out of service.

[@Bigpopp1]

And who signed the paperwork saying she refused the ambulance? Clearly you don’t comprehend what was actually said and the facts in this case. Maybe watch and listen not make your own twist on a story.

[@Rocky12323]

@@Bigpopp1 if she voluntarily refuses transport and drives herself. She signed. Or she simply said we will go and refused to sign.

[@Rocky12323]

@@Bigpopp1 depending on the state laws and the fire department policies. She may have not actually qualified as a patient and they needed her signature as well.

[@SocialistDistancing]

The problem is, the service is abused by those that don't need an ambulance. Then, the people that really need an ambulance, can't get one. That's the reality. 6 years in energe , you learn things.

[@james8156]

Nothing is free and nor should services be for medical services obtained from a City. An ambulance is an emergency unit and not a transport unit but so many fail to realize this and those who need an ambulance are waiting because of the non-emergency transports.

[@sharonsekhon9475]

WTH is going on in Phoenix?

[@p12423073]

Arizona is a conservative bastion for libertarian abuses.

[@RSKLove]

The heat destroys snowbird brain cells. People move here and have no clue what it means to actually to live here. They expect their behavior to be consistent with wherever they locale before.

[@BabeRuth1978]

I thought Arizona(Phoenix-Maricopa county) wasn't worried about signature verifying...hmm! Now they are talking like its a problem...hahahah

[@jonstocker171]

Fire departments are the worse. I'm a paramedic. Those fire loving truck drivers always try and get out of work. Honestly the cities would be better with a state ran EMS with no fire department involvement. Cut the budget for fire fighters and allow them only to work fire. This is all the fire lovers really want. SAFD here in San antonio literally gave a 12 lead showing an MI (heart attack) to a patient and told the patient that they would not take them to the ER. That man literally went into cardiac arrest at a stand alone ER. EmS was then called to get him to a cath lab. There are hundreds examples of fire not caring for people. All they want to do is fight fires, so let them. Cut the budgets and let them resize to an appropriate limit. Paramedic for 14 years. Still.have not seen a single fire department that is not rude to people's needs. They down talk patient's every day

[@kentstallard6512]

The core issue here is our terrible, privatized heathcare system. We are the only developed nation on earth without universal healthcare. Universal systems provide better outcomes at about HALF the cost. But here in the US we've allowed greedy, unnecessary middlemen known as insurance companies to game the system for profits. Healthcare is not a commodity, or at least shouldn't be treated as such. It's an essential service and people DIE when such services are privatized. 70% of Americans want universal healthcare but too many vote for politicians who are bought and paid for by the insurance industry and pharmaceutical companies.

[@tamstutz921]

Socialism fails everywhere it’s tried. “Universal healthcare” is a myth that kills patients through poor care and rationing. Marxists need to leave our country and move to any utopian h*ll hole of their choice.

[@nadiaflores831]

Same thing happened to my sis. She passed out & her BP was in the 70s when the firefighters arrived. They didn’t wanna transport. I’m an RN & was gonna drive her to the ER myself until I repeated her vital signs to them & her symptoms. Finally one of them said “oh yeah” and they took her. She did get a hefty bill but after an appeal to her insurance they paid it in full. Being in healthcare, I see all the people who abuse the system but it’s our job to provide care not to judge who does or does not deserve care.

[@james8156]

You are an RN and working in a hospital which charges but you think that cities should be free? Are you one of those people that think that if you’re tax pay in the city that you should get everything for free? Have you ever got a speeding ticket or a traffic ticket in the town that you live in? Did you tell the cop that wrote that ticket you are taxpayer and you don’t have to pay a ticket because you live here?

[@MrFreeride1113]

The Mesa fire department and ambulance men and women have been great for my parents over the last five years. They have been terrific on more visits than I can count.

[@werty00]

You Hispanic???

[@Amanda-nt7tt]

​@@werty00we know they're not

[@kimlandefeld3005]

We had an issue when my relative collapsed. The firefighter/EMTs insisted on giving her Narcan when she was 87 years old and NOT on drugs. They delayed transport just so they could 'practice' giving her Narcan. Stripped her and let her lie there uncovered. These people are no longer what they once were. Now they are social justice warriors and doing a JOB not a calling. It's sad. The very last people who would come when called now won't, and maybe we don't want them to if they are going to treat us like this.

[@RSKLove]

Seriously the shoe is on the other foot for this abomination

[@codav8708]

The real reason why, I can guarantee you, is because they don’t want to do it. How I know? This is my line of work. They decided unilaterally the patient didn’t need to go to the hospital which is outside of the paramedic scope of practice. They are NOT allowed to diagnose.

[@ggonzalez0990]

Forgery is a crime but I doubt no one will be held accountable. When it comes to laws and rules phoenix police and fire are exempt.

[@Jvljvljvl]

And it was the fire captain that filled out the report, and if you look at the signature, it looks exactly like the signature saying that she refused service.

[@bswogger4656]

They did that in phx when my doctor wanted me to have MRI in ER. Lived at that time 20 th Ave & Glendale, 2008. I still having problems, 2011 anaphylaxis, over & over denied appropriate medical care.

[@vitaAutLetum]

Should have arranged for a private ambulance to come and take her to the ER and sent her the expensive transportation bill if it was a non-emergency. If it was an emergency, take her to the damn hospital and let the hospital ER do their job. So sick of people not wanting to do their job.

[@mikefagan6840]

Transport EVERYONE, job security 😂😂😂

[@MrCraigde]

Sounds like the fire department is just as bad as their police department!

[@12stanhumphries]

Phoenix is one of the most Corrupted Cities in the U.S right behind Chicago.

[@HotWheelsMan55]

The discipline was that they allowed the Cpt. to retire on his FULL pension.

[@bcgambit80]

I don't see what the problem is, this is the U.S.A. If you want to be treated like a human being here, you need to be rich. Healthcare is a luxury, not a right in this country.

[@phxbornandraised1817]

I'm sure she had ahcccs!!! Lol guess who foots the bill? Yes all the tax payers

[@3rdpig]

This is probably the dumbest comment I've read today. But not to worry, there's still 7 hours for someone to take the prize away from you.

[@bcgambit80]

@@3rdpig has the dumbest reply I've read today. But not to worry, there's still time for someone else to take the prize away from you.

[@jamessimms415]

@@bcgambit80. Takes one to recognize it

[@AZFIREVIDS]

She has covid and there is nothing the fire dept can do about it. It’s stupid.

[@paulsaragosa371]

Mama called her lawyers firm's as soon as possible and knowledge is thy rights

[@jeffreypierson2064]

It would be interesting to see the transport rates broken down by ethnicity. I somehow am guessing that there is a disparity between minority and white transport rates. Francesca Sandberg was Hispanic. Haydee Pate is obviously a minority. With pneumonia, she needed supplemental oxygen, which is available in an ambulance, not a passenger car.

[@kharnthebetrayer1575]

Worse crime of all…. Paying for an ambulance ride , when Taxes already pay for the damn thing!!

[@cbozarth40195]

They wouldn't comment on punishment. BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED NONE they were probably promoted

[@taaurus13]

Since when does the fire department charge? I thought just private ambulances charged?

[@Comeon-no6jo]

Total incompetence from Phoenix fire department!!!! Where is the class? Where is the service? Where is the dignity? Compassion respect !!!! I am very disappointed the fire department is losing its credibility and they’re losing their class!!!! The new recruit suck !!!!

[@peggyg7442]

BS. They just didn't want to do their job. The amount of time they spent telling her she didn't need an ambulance they could have had her loaded and on the way to the hospital.

[@LuckyCookie88]

Because the hospital is literally full of ppl abusing it. If the paramedics can tell it’s not urgent, and they can be talked out of it then it means it’s not an emergency. The ambulance men does not go back to the station to take a nap. They go back into service for other more emergency calls. There is a hughe shortage of ambulance as is, if u can go to the ER yourself, do so

[@greyhoundgirl9726]

It’s common to try and talk people out of an ambulance ride when they don’t need it. It’s expensive to take an ambulance and once they get the bill, they start screaming over the cost. Plus, they are taking an ambulance out of service, making longer response times for people that really need one.

[@nochannel1q2321]

In this time and place it's specifically illegal to do this.

[@matthewgibson4309]

Alan Bruicini former chief of Phoenix fire would have fired theses men I took several classes from him at ff conferences

[@TheAZFireCEP]

This is a multi pronged problem. First, too many people DO use an ambulance as a taxi thinking that if they go on a gurney by ambo they get to go to the front of the line in the ER which is completely wrong. They get triaged just like everyone else, problem is that process can take up to 2 hours before the patient can even get an open hospital stretcher do to the multitude of people who opt to go to the hospital for a cold or prescription refill. That ambulance is now out of service until they can offload that patient. And a number of times we've had to struggle to get the ambo gurney close to the front door because of the dozen cars in the driveway after the family FIRST called every family member then called 9-1-1. In my time as a fire captain and paramedic, I never once mentioned price, mainly because I don't have that info and has zero to do with patient care. But, as some people have said, some FF's are not thrilled about non-emergency "emergencies". Stupid shows like 9-1-1 and Station 19 make it seem like every call is life or death doing unbelievable rescues. In reality, those are incredibly rare, maybe once in a career. Every Firefighter after 9/11 is aware of what could happen and some, not all, joined the FD for some glory but became disillusioned when they were told 85% of the call's are medical in nature. Firefighter's can also get burned out after running 15-20 call's per 24 hour shift, those are called "stand up 24's" and doing that shift after shift with 90% of the call's being drunks, people wanting a meal and some air conditioning at the hospital and knowing a number of these people are abusing not just the 9-1-1 system but abusing the Medicare and Medicare (AHCCCS) is frustrating to say the least. And the bill from the uninsured often goes unpaid and that affects everyone, city fire department or private EMS and after a while takes a big hit to the budget. And the hospital is in the same boat, they too lose money because if the patient goes to an urgent care facility, they have to pay upfront before being seen but if they go to a hospital WE taxpayers are on the hook. That said, Phoenix Fire did have their 9-1-1 call taker's triage the call and if it sounded low priority they would do a "turn call" and give the response to a private ambulance company to keep their apparatus available for a true emergency. Bottom line, this blame falls to everyone, albeit not equally.

[@bgregg55]

Here, the FD can't get you in the ambulance quickly enough. What's the deal in Phoenix?

[@thomaskeil1437]

I had a similar experience with the Glendale FD several years ago.

[@donnakosik7379]

Wow how disgusting, people move from Phoenix. What a black eye on Fire departments, shame on lazy firefignters.

[@TDCates]

Why don't they dispatch an ambulance instead of a fire truck?

[@shed66215]

Imagine living in a country where the bills start with even just having EMS turn up, even before having to go to the hospital. It may have its faults and issues but glad we have NHS here in UK.

[@james8156]

Stay in the UK and shut up about billing policies here in the U.S. I don’t wanna pay the taxes you all do to live in the U.K.

[@angelmonsivaiz2195]

This is what happened when fire Depts take over transports over private ambulance companies. They do anything to keep units available and refuse without directly saying they are refusing. Yet when private EMS response they’ll demand they transport. It’s All a game. A game that shouldn’t be going on.

[@neilelkin5307]

You have to pay? For ambulance, wow, it's not free.

[@smorris281]

In some cities, it’s covered by taxes, in others, you have to pay.

[@MercilessGuitar151]

Nothing is free stupid.

[@missdebbie6791]

Here in phoenix individuals are responsible for their ambulance ride. If you have medical insurance that covers it, great, if not you pay out of pocket, or you don't and the cost comes from tax payers. The system is used and abused heavily by the people who do not have medical coverage.

[@jimkelly6310]

Really? Just where in this world is anything free of real cost or consequences? Somewhere, some how, someone or entity will be paying! Taxes are a cost of doing government. The more inefficient the tasks of governing becomes, the more the taxes are increased! Stop with the BS mentality!

[@ChubbyUnicorn]

I wonder if unpaid medical bills are an issue? If the person looks like they can't afford the bill, then they will avoid transport if possible.

[@Literallyarealhuman]

Oh fun let’s let a bunch of unemployed people weigh in on this. They will sure have a great opinion.

[@JeremyNewell-f1z]

This cannot be happening,my gosh.

[@jimirock81]

Phoenix FD is a joke. I’d rather drive myself to the hospital anyway.

[@richallen8742]

So let me see if I got this right....our taxes pay for all this life-saving equipment to provide care for those taxpayers in need of that care and equipment. Who gives a flying F what it costs if they need help - they need help or they wouldn't have called

[@paulsaragosa371]

Your family taxpayers

[@biggpimppin8215]

County ambulance rides should be covered by our taxes. If you use a private ambulance company than that’s on you. Sucks tho if you don’t have good health insurance to cover the cost.

[@werty00]

As a taxpayer who pays their salaries, they best not try this bull with me. 😡😡

[@landonleathers5936]

Another scandal in Phoenix

[@juiloportez4283]

It's not a good look for PFD. They won't even say if they were disciplined or at least retrained on policy? That's one good way to lose your community's trust, LMFAO.

[@brody8838]

What was wrong with the 2 cars in the driveway?

[@runoz2839]

We are missing the ACTUAL 911 🤙 call... what was said.

[@wagonburnereb]

EMS. earn money sleeping

[@kb9liq]

Happens just about e eryday some where. Too short on rigs everywhere and people on medicaid getting free rides because they just don't want to drive themselves and wait in the waiting room

[@MultiUnitPros]

She needs to stop using an ambulance as a taxi service. It will not get you in front of anyone else in the same condition.

[@phxbornandraised1817]

Yeah sounds great. Put a ambulance out of service to transport a non emergency.

[@Jvljvljvl]

When she was admitted to the hospital, she was diagnosed with pneumonia immediately put on oxygen and was kept at the hospital for several weeks. If that’s not a medical emergency, tell me what is.

[@phxbornandraised1817]

@Jvljvljvl someone who's been shot, stabbed, a code, a FIRE. She's on the news asking for a apology really

[@Jvljvljvl]

@@phxbornandraised1817 are you really trying to play who is the bigger victim when it comes to medical attention? You did hear about the husband that called to get transportation for his wife that was sick. They refused transportation and she died on the way to the hospital when he had to be the one to take her. You don’t know the underlying health issues. Its not the fire department job to decide who gets service that is against the law.

[@phxbornandraised1817]

@Jvljvljvl sounds great, leave the decisions to be made by untrained professionals. 😆

[@Jvljvljvl]

@@phxbornandraised1817 dude you make no sense. I’m wasting my time trying to reason with fools. Have yourself a good day and I pray you never have to go through what other families are experiencing when it comes to the fire department refusing to do their job.

[@damianmuniz3567]

The same thing happen to me glendale police under a false arrest imprisoned me and I had a medical emergency they refused me medical aid for 4 hr and then called ambulance after they saw me sick then the emergency people kept telling me price of ambulance and all this usless information and at the end they basically refuse me services and made me sign a paper over my vitals smh what a failure and to think they are under taxpayer payroll and not a bit of ethic or professionalism smh

[@jeffstrawn3073]

We civilians can not run the red lights you in the emergency vehicles can simple threat to other cars around you is enough reason to say Do Your Jobs

[@michaellucero2420]

R 15 did that with my Brother that had a seizure I wanted him to go to County Hospital 24 st Roosevelt Paramedic said We’re going to take him to Maryvale because it’s closer I said he needs to go to county because that’s where his Doctor is at I was his Caregiver

[@good4jg]

Are these guys cops in disguise?

[@FerylindyGomez]

I have a good audio recording of firefighter telling me that i an inconvenience he made feel like a waterbug i asked them to take me to hospital i felt out of air shortness of breath station 22 hope you can listen to my audio of the way i was treated city manager neverr called me back please help us get some real paramedics they act like we are from another planet station 22 didn't care about me feeling. Like im dieing he said i was a grown man and i can pay for my own ride to the hospital what do we have them for they need to send that station to battle some real fires and start treating us like humans i have audio if u need i can take in person

[@paulsaragosa371]

Deregulation of all wisdoms of all these years ago of the leaders ships 🚢