In my most HUMBLEST of opinions, End Game has problems |Don't Starve Together|

[@supermilordo5153]

The justification for void walking is completely schizzofrenic. YES, void walking IS a cheat and exploit and YES using wortox + lazy desert + exploring is NOT cheesy NOR a cheat because it implies you're playing and engaging the goddamm game and using his mechanics/functions. It implies you traversed and completed the atrium, did the antlion and most importantly have friends (a big problem since over 60% of dst playerbase play alone) + plus using a lot of resources. To make statements like these, it's a level of craziness on so many levels, INSTEAD of proposing a labyrinth/atrium reworks, which SHOULD be pushed as top priority. As many other things in the game, before the stupid rifts and horrible skill trees.....

[@friendlypootis]

I agree

[@dwight3555]

Completely correct

[@SYNTHSTREL]

Void walking is entirely cheating. It was never intended, and is used primarily to skip the atrium tenta pillar search. Now that the atrium tenta pillar has a setpiece, it's no longer needed. I'm not pretending to be a saint either, I've used it loads of times to get to fuelweaver. But there's just no justification for keeping it in the game anymore. Using certain characters to teleport others to the atrium after you've found it is fine, because it 1. Requires specific resources that are time sensitive (walruses or antlion) And 2. IS AN INTENDED MECHANIC. Using certain characters abilities to make specific things easier is literally the whole point of having a unique cast of characters with different abilities. Voidwalking was so cheap and easy, that you could voidwalk to guardian, voidwalk to fuelweaver, and be at endgame content in less than 5 days as any character for nothing but some logs and rope. (After you get fossils and kill shadow pieces) Stop trying to justify cheating because it makes the game easier. Using character's strengths to get something done easier is not the same as using a bug to skip chunks of the game. Good video, keep it up!

[@joshsolders5543]

So... How do you feel about Voltgoat farms? Is that cheating because it wasn't really an intended mechanic to set a spawn point of the herd in a specifc trap and it makes the game easier. Or cheesing Fuelweaver by trapping behind a pillar and watching a houndius shootius kill him? Doubt it was intended for you to do that. There are plenty of unintended mechanics that exist in the game that make it easier. The only real difference between these and void walking is that one was patched out. And honestly, the only really consistent opinion is that either all or okay, or none are. I'm sticking with whatever you can do in the game, whether unintentional or not is ok and once it stops working, then it just means you can't do it anymore. And to avoid this gotcha now, the console is NOT part of the game. Its a debugging tool for when things break. You can totally just spawn stuff from the terminal sure, but its not a game mechanic, so don't pretend it is.

[@TheVicelion]

@@joshsolders5543 You just compared clever use of mechanics, so, basically 'dynamics' to a literal glitch. Farming Volt Goats makes use of unexplained mechanics and clever thinking. Voidwalking is literally breaking the game by no cliping with walls into the outer edges of the map where no dangers lurk, no depthworm spawns and most creatures can't attack you. It doesn't just make exploration in caves easier, it makes it trivial. Don't compare a useful farm that might make use of advanced mob respawn mechanics, to a literal progession secuence break that could also be considered a pseudo god-mode.

[@Pertu820]

Mini magic archer profile picture!

[@-TheChosenOne]

Honestly it took me a far too long time to know if this was some kind of weird April Fool's video or not but then I realized; No, you are completely serious somehow! At 7:51 I realized that I 100% need to make a response to this video cause I believe this is actively harmful to the game's future. Let me explain. Your first major point is that void-walking shouldn't have been patched from the game. I think there's a VERY important reason WHY Klei decided to do this that I'll get to later but let's address your arguments first. You want it to skip having to traverse "annoying" areas, saying that "it would save so much time over walking through normally", completely neglecting to mention the fact that the Lazy Explorer exists (which you would 100% have access to at the point of walking through the Atrium to FARM FW being annoying). It literally takes 10 seconds and 0 risk to get to FW from the tentapillar with explorers + moggles/gloomberries, not to mention that actually using the tentapillar in the first place covers a HUGE distance that you don't need to travel by walking. No matter how you flip it, using void-walking is just slower so this argument completely falls flat to me. You also literally bring up other options to deal with enemies in the Atrium AUTOMATICALLY that Klei HASN'T and WILL NOT be removing since they're not UNINTENIONAL engine limitations but rather INTENDED and CLEVER player strategies that completely fixes the problem of atrium enemies being a hassle. Like, the only reason they re-spawn is to make their resources renewable. If void-walking never existed, this would NEVER be a complaint, which it still shouldn't since the Lazy Explorer exists. Also, the reason I THINK Klei removed void-walking wasn't to give a big fat middle finger to the players who were using it but rather because they need to to create the DST ending. A common complaint people have with DST is that caves cause a lot of lag (understandable) since the game needs to run two different "servers" at the same time. If Klei wants to make a separate "ending area" (say for example a place were you confront Charlie or smth) without causing more lag, that could easily be done by putting a set piece far out in the void of the caves. Because of that players can't be allowed to void-walk anymore since they would just be able to skedaddle over to the ending on day 1. Many decisions Klei has made in the past have been to set up a larger plot (like the entire ocean for example) meaning they surely have a reason to make this change. Let them cook Regarding your second point I just facepalmed so hard when hearing it. You say that certain characters skills being locked behind endgame is a big issue and that they should all be available way earlier. Like bro, I GUARANTEE you that you were also among the people that complained about the Celestial Champion's loot being "terrible" back in 2022 compared to the work you put in and that there wasn't enough incentive to go out of you way to defeat it. It just doesn't make any sense that Klei can't give you additional REWARDS AND INCENTIVE to complete the games challenges that players LITERALLY ASKED FOR for years. You're saying that it feels like your skill points are sitting there being useless while you're in the process of unlocking them while there will always be 15 other skills that you can have active in the meantime, but OH, it "just sucks" to go change the skills at the portal. You forget though that the skills you need to unlock by progressing in the game are EXTREMELY OP in comparison to other skills and will give you way more value when you unlock them. It's really VERY COMMON in game design to provide the player with the trade off to either be: * More powerful early but with less potential later on , or to... * Sacrifice early power for a strong endgame In reality though, the second option ends up only being having to take one trip to the celestial portal, which "just sucks" (no), for a REALLY STRONG endgame and a strong early game. Then you also complain about other stuff being "locked behind" endgame content, like the gloom bell. You say that it would help "prevent the constant rollbacks from accidents involving beefalo", but when you consider the fact that beefalo are totally overpowered (you have a literal video saying that too) and that the main skill of using them are managing their buck-timers well, I'd say that's a you problem and that you should be grateful that Klei added the gloom bell in the first place. It's like you don't even want to be rewarded for all your hard work but rather served everything OP on a silver platter so you can breeze through the games challenges. What fun is that? Then you compare activating rifts to destroying the world and making the caves "uninhabitable". Klei clearly got inspired by Terraria (they did the crossover so it's a reasonable assumption) to make a spin on its "Hardmode" in DST. I understand where the community is coming from regarding this point since I also feel very anxious in turning on Hardmode in Terraria. DST isn't Terraria however and while Terraria is a more combat-focused game DST is, of course, a survival game. This means, of course, that "DST Hardmode" would add harder survival challenges for the players to deal with. Things like acid rain, moon glass hail, boulder cave-ins, lunar frog rain, brightshade infestation etc are perfect examples of this and I think Klei really did those well. I.e there are obvious (at least I thought they were obvious) ways to prevent them like with an Umbralla, cave pillars, and planar weapons. You literally mention in the video that you can deal with brightshades (easily) with the brightshade staff like the devs intended. All I'm hearing are the exact same complaints that I did when the ocean was first added like; "There is nothing here", or "All you did was provide solutions to a problem you just created". To answer the first complaint, judging by Klei's history, it's OBVIOUS that they're gonna add more stuff to the endgame so that there are legitimate reasons to activate it. Somehow though, instead of being patient, you just complain that the stuff they do add is "locked behind" endgame content. It's a SURVIVAL game, it's supposed to be hard to SURVIVE. The whole premise of a survival game is that it creates problems that you have to overcome. Klei can't just add the ending as the first thing they do to the endgame and then put more and more stuff in before it. Then people are just gonna think it's tedious and unnecessary forever. There might not be many reasons now to activate rifts (although there are) but if the community is just gonna complain that they have to, god forbid, ENGAGE with the NEW content to GET the NEW stuff, then we're not gonna get any new stuff. Like I said, let them cook! (I continue in the responses, this was too long apparently)

[@-TheChosenOne]

Continuation 1: This complaint about planar damage not showing up earlier is frankly just stupid. The whole point of it is to have two different viable paths to choose between when tackling endgame content and IMO, that's great and adds more strategic depth and something new. The "prehardmode" era of DST doesn't need this IMO since it already has many layers of strategic depth to it. Prototyping, for example, is something that only comes up in prehardmode and hardmode needs some layer to fill its space. If planar damage did scale with damage multipliers we would have a Minecraft-situation where all strategic depth goes out the window and there's an objectively best setup for every situation with full prot netherite armor with mending, sharpness netherite sword, blah, blah, blah. The only real choices you gotta make are to put either infinity or mending on your bow, or loyalty or riptide on your trident. With DST however there are WAY more options and I love and commend Klei for that. Also, regarding the previous point, the reason why you need to unlock planar damage is so that you can't just kill the brightshades really easily. You have to overcome the obstacle BY crafting planar gear. If it had existed in prehardmode it would be pointless lol. It's pretty obvious from a game design perspective when you give it some thought. 25:26 I laughed out loud when hearing this! Bro suggested an "Indiana Jones-style thing where you need to run through a couple of things..." when the WHOLE FIRST CHAPTER was you wanting to skip having to run through Indiana Jones style labyrinths (atrium and labyrinth) to get to the juicy loot. You LITERALLY wanted to skip that part of the game 15 minutes ago and now you're suggesting it?! You can't make this up, SMH! "Cheesing" what you're describing would also 100% be possible in the ways you brought up about the atrium with the lazy deserter, bruv... Also, Klei will 100% add more and better ways to deal with brightshades later. You will just need to unlock them by doing some difficult stuff so you might have some mental preparation to do IDK. 26:50 This remark/imitation is also just lame IMO. I do appreciate though that it validates the need for this response to be here.

[@-TheChosenOne]

Continuation 2: You also complain a lot about tedious things like farming Celestial Champion. One could argue that CC should drop way more enlightened shards but I understand why Klei didn't want this. As it stands you need to make a DECISION (usually a main appeal when playing games) between getting the enlightened crown and getting some shards to power Winona's catapults or whatever, but just because you CAN fight Celestial Champion multiple times it's a slog to have to do the moon stone event over and over again. BRUH, it's not like you need to do Pearl's quests again and Klei even cut down the required restrained statics from 3 to 1!!! In Terraria you need to do the pillar events every time you want to fight Moon Lord unless you have the resources (like you also can in DST) and I don't hear the Terraria players complaining as much as this when they only have a 20% chance of getting what they want from him. Klei made it almost 3 times easier to farm CC and this is still a complaint, SMH. Your final point is that cave bridges were way to expensive. You bring up the sixty grass thing as if it's a major issue and ask when Klei literally reverted it. The reason for it, I think, was because Klei originally didn't want you to be able to cross cave chasms at all (since they're canonically walls). They however realized that players were gonna be annoyed if they removed void-walking without providing a solution for it. Therefore they wanted it to be expensive to cross chasms but so that the community wouldn't think it was too expensive, they said "hey, here's a reasonable cost in our mind but if you ask us nicely we can lower it to 4 boards and a couple of ropes hehe". This is a simple marketing trick that I think they were going for. They did the same thing with Toadstool for example and people still complain about him lol. To conclude I wanted to apologize if this comment/response seemed a little confrontational but I feel like the tone was necessary to point out the ridiculousness of some of these takes. I just thought people would have realized how Klei's development process looks but apparently not. Or you actually agree with every point I made here and made this video to taunt Klei in which case I'm the one who should be ridiculed but for some reason I don't feel like that's the case. I really hope you understand the reason I made this though, which is that I think it's harmful to have (and publish) the mindset of; "everything should be served to me on a silver platter", and; "don't lock things behind other things, but if you don't we're still gonna complain about there being to few rewards for doing said thing". I really think that you should ping this comment so that people can easily see both sides of the argument (or as a pin of shame if that's how you see it), and since you don't really have a super needed pinned comment ATM of writing this. If you heart this comment I'm gonna assume that you agree with the vast majority of the points I made, TY for reading. I'm likely gonna make a video of my own on the DST endgame at some point so keep an eye out for that! This took 2 hours to write💀

[@دولفينوسيم]

👏👏👏👏

[@reculi]

thank you for this

[@lenship2]

absolutely w response

[@Seiko-vaping]

hmm exo i think void walking is a bit of cheating because normally you need to fight trough many challenges and they are there for their challenge and not us bypassing them via a glitch, but that's my opinion on void walking

[@tiagoalmeida3517]

It's so weird to me how ppl justify it, I mean, play how you like, but that's clearly cheating

[@naki915]

@@tiagoalmeida3517 Yeah, void walking is just such a weird thing to stay in a game for SO LONG. People started to treat it like intentional mechanic...

[@supermilordo5153]

People who defend void walking, should take a bath and a long rest from the game for a longgg time.

[@tiqosc1809]

have you like watch the video? exo already mention that challenge that comes from ruins are already much harder than the maze , also you can use ingame machanic to bypass it anyways, all it does is to save time

[@دولفينوسيم]

The point was weak because all these methods takes a lot of materials and time​@tiqosc1809

[@Koh09]

I see a lot of Don’t Starve content creators complaining about the end game and I don’t see why… with the new mechanics I had to adjust my world to make it safer and more convenient… I don’t know maybe if it’s because I play console and we don’t really have the luxury of “rushing” a lot of things pc players can but typically I don’t see the problem in taking your time with the game In my world I have 3000 days and probably started the rifts around day 1250 or something but here’s what I’ve done Brightshades: we’re very annoying and at first my biggest problem because basic resources require me to fight brightshades very often… my solution: anything that the brightshades can effect has been moved into my cave bases… the most accessible cave bases has 120-160 grass, 40 twigs, 40 berry bushes, 40 banana bushes, a 4x4 farm plot with star caller staffs, along with an ice crystalizer with dragonfly furnaces and has other things a base needs like a tent, columns, cooking area, revive area and storage area… In the inner caves closer to the ruins, I have the same setup but on a smaller scale of grass because these are more just pit stops to re-up on food, sanity, and health On the surface I also use the ice crystalizer as a template for my base… with furnaces, tents, banana bushes, bee farms, volt goat farm, stone fruit, and a mini rabbit house farm of 6-8 houses for carrots and meats, also depending if you base near the water a boat with lure plants can go a long way… I’ve made these places at different POI that I have to go anyway to farm bosses, so dragonfly, crab king, scrappy, and antlion, all have these bosses has bases near them. Void walking is something I’ve heard a lot about from content creators and I don’t understand the beef, it was never meant to be in the game anyway, I’m glad they have actually added bridges because it makes it a lot easier to transverse the cave system… although yes it’s resource intensive, it’s the end game which I guess if you didn’t rush the game you probably would have more resources than you’d know what to do with… and I mean yes they took void walking out of the game but complaining about it really doesn’t mean much, are they suppose to add it back? Most of the time I’m playing the caves I pop a night berry or two, then using a mag, walking cane, and helmet of my choice with a weapon, usually lets me either clear the ruins/caves or out run everything and gets me to where I need to go I love the new addition of the ranged gloomerang and the shadow maul, I love having a new way to get pure horror through the new shark-like shadow creature and the mimics, I love the beefalo saddle and bell, I’m actually looking forward to more content maybe an Ancient Fuelweaver, Ancient Guardian, Toadstool, fight with planar mechanics with new drops and crafts to make the game hella easy Again maybe this is subjective because I play on console and I guess we have to take our time with things because of our lack of ability to rush certain things but I just think that’s how the game is supposed to me l be played If it matters: I play Maxwell, swapping with character to character to make the world easier, Winona for her catapults and trusty tape (yes even after the skill tree) Wickerbottom for her books (Maxwell has the luxury of reading them too) and Warly (for his exclusive dishes and spices placed in a polar bearger bin or in ickers)

[@pocketglove]

I think one of the problems is that I feel like recently they've been adding a lot of endgame content, which by proxy makes the endgame feel like the point you need to reach to get said content. And if in every single world the point was to just get to the good stuff, I could see the point about saving time. If they started adding a lot more content that is relagated to the earlier stages of the game and it was very fun, i dont see why people would resort to cheating (void walking is 100% cheating). Currently, it just feels like a good 70% of the fun/good/cool stuff is after fuelweaver.

[@naki915]

When rifts first appeared, people complained that It's not worth It, not enough content... Now It's too much for endgame. Some people can't be satisfied, rifts are GREAT for players who like to have one world with a huuuuge day count, early and mid game already has a dozen bosses and cool often unused weapons and strats. Also they added rabbit king, which is accesible from day 1.

[@pocketglove]

@naki915 I've never reached that stage of the game, for me all of the end game content will just be something that I probably won't see, this is just how me and my friends play, we have fun surviving, building a base until we start over. I think they have just overtuned a lot of the end game, to the point where the game starts in the end game.

[@naki915]

@@pocketglove You always could just open rifts manualy when you create world. So you and your friends can try this stuff out, have some fun with those end-game stuff.

[@Wizrad_7]

I think the problem klei had with voidwalking was its early game accessibility and its low cost. They just didn't add a good or cost-effective enough alternative for the late game in my opinion, and I think yours. As for the late game- I agree and also disagree with you. There are problems with the late game, obviously. That's why it's getting updated and changing. And I'm not saying it's above criticism just because it isn't done yet, but your critique of the current rewards for activatingthe rifts sort of feels like a "destination versus journey" argument to me. I really enjoy turning on the rifts and dealing with its repercussions, but not just because of the endgame loot. Also your point about skill trees has merit, having dead skill points is annoying but you can always use different skills until rifts, then use the portal. I do think klei should explore alternative options though. Good video!

[@ubear_elena]

4:00 please never cook again

[@dontthrow6064]

1. About brightshades, one issue is that after you kill a few you don't need more at all, especially since you can't do anything with their loot alone. You need pure brilliance which is a lot more rare. 2. About void walking. First they recently changed the big tentacle that leads to the atrium so you can differentiate it. Searching blindly 5 big tentacles was "meh" and just a feeling of "finally" at the end. Secondly, the sanity walls are terrible. It requires too much coordination to pass them if there are more players, most of the time we end up going slowly one by one. Otherwise it was fun we had to go to fw legit. A small issue about lazy deserter is you have to wait until first summer.

[@sud1881]

Voidwalking is free and requires no resources beyond walls and gates. This means you could use voidwalking to skip the challenges of the labyrinth on your very first trip to the ruins of your entire playtime. This means that voidwalking is a mechanic that let’s new players skip challenges just like a god mode mod would so it should be removed and replaced with a alternative that only works after clearing the ruins, like the seed of ruin from DS being used in DST but changed to teleport through the ruins after killing fuelweaver.

[@DreamRex1]

My problem with endgame content is that theres so much traveling and just simply waiting for some stuff to happen. Go from base to some area to grab something, go to base again craft something, go to some area again farm something, go base, ops, out of something, go again. Take this from that, make 2 laps around whole map, and boom, you have a pearl. Wait 5 days just because and do nothing. So much unnecessary running and wait time, YIKES.

[@michalvrabec454]

i kinda like that it's not easy to get to endgame content and that it takes time, if u don't like it then u can just enable it in world gen

[@DreamRex1]

​@@michalvrabec454 i kinda like doing nothing and simply wait 5-15 days just because. Got it. What am i even watching.

[@michalvrabec454]

@@DreamRex1 u don't have to wait 5-15 days if u don't want to, u can enable rifts from the start, once u complete the game u don't have to go through all that shit again every time u create a new game, also there is a mod on steam workshop that makes the time go faster it's a really good mod if u don't want to wait, also u can do other things while you're waiting.... i'm just sayin... u have options

[@dicey134]

4:00 no because thats intended game mechanics lol

[@MikhailNijegorodsky]

That's also requires you to survive through summer, playing with friends and spending much more resources, I dunno why he is ignoring that

[@supermilordo5153]

​@@MikhailNijegorodskyExactly. Said same things on my comment. That's crazy.

[@Senketsujin]

I feel like bridges should be unlocked after fighting Ancient Fuelweaver and should be stronger, so it cuts down on repeating the traveling through the caves and whatnot. Also the reason why some of the end game post rift items feels pointless if you completed all the bosses already then, they don't honestly serve a purpose since you've already cleared the need. If anyone noticed both alignment paths help you beat the opposite of the alignment easier (If you're starting from a fresh world).

[@antynomity]

20:44 when I was still semi-actively playing DST, I suggested on the forums for the brightshade mechanic where they block other brightshdes from spawning to be explained in-game through animations between brightshades from the same spawngroup (and now, through the scrapbook) alongside also (just came up with this) increasing the range of the blocking radius AND the vine accordingly to make it an actual explained, and valid way of blocking brightshades, if the range got increased enough it wouldnt mattwr if you had to build ugly outposts to make sure the vine is blocked and doesnt annoy you in your base, you could just hide them in clumps of trees and its almost like they arent even there anymore. Even lore-wise it'd make sense, why would they send more brightshades in when your entire base is already 'full' of them? 😅

[@brandishell]

I will say that I've never "cleared" the atrium. Maybe an occasional bishop at the entrance, but I've always just used the lazy explorer to get through. I do agree with what you said about the late game. You get to a point where you don't need the husks and the brightshades are just a pain in the butt every time you need to pick grass. The ickers are the same way; really good for nightmare fuel, but by that point what are you really using nightmare fuel for? The entire late game is just repeating the same tasks/bosses over and over.

[@How2live0]

4:00 so using a mod to one shot a boss is the same as killing it normally? It has the same outcome Swapping to wortox takes 100x longer than just putting 2 walls and a gate, not even mentioning that the area has to be discovered first and you obviously need to get some souls to get to it

[@disappointment7208]

but extreme but i agree with the point

[@riitiris8662]

let us not forget in the example given as a comparison this Wortox has a Lazy Deserter, so they'd been playing on the server for at least 4-5 hours and had already fought Antlion in the first Summer.

[@mauriciohablutzel]

I don't know chief, this opinion is iffy at best...

[@joeyrony2887]

This video is full of a bunch of really horrid takes. First off, the copium for void walking was insane, you say that interacting with game mechanics and synergizing with other players is cheating. The thing about just using the teleport having characters is that you have to play them to use their abilities or you have to have a friend play them. You have to make tradeoffs to do these things. Also memorizing the enemy spawns to place things to kill them just feel super sweaty and lame. at 12:47 you say that having strong abilities late game makes you want to rush them, that's literally how any game with progression works. You get stronger as the game goes on and the game gets strong with you in response. If I played terreria and had to use copper shortswords the entire game it would suck ass. You also say that you have a limited amount of skill tree points which is a bad thing. You really just hate trade offs don't you. You want everything without sacrifice. The whole point of those skill tree points is that you spend those points to make the late game more fun at the cost of the early game instead of investing into an early game point at the expense of the late game. You say that the best way to play those characters is to either swap to them later or respec later. The problem with that, is thats it is no where near as engaging or fun to do as opposed to slowly build yourself up with these late game perks. A lot of the bonuses that you point out also have early game application. Extra damage against shadows is universally useful, wormwood can use the summons as soon as they get lightbulbs, carrots, or dragon fruit, wormwood can use their bramble skills as soon as they find BEES. Later you say that the beefalo bell is unlocked too late because you tame beefalo early game. This is yet another instance of you saying "this quality of life feature is available too late." The problem with having quality of life features be so early into the game is that if you do that, you don't have to engage with the systems. Also, rollbacking because your beefalo died is a skill issue. If your putting your beefalo in situations where its dying constantly, the solution isent save scumming, its getting better at the game and better at poisitioning. This is like saying "oh yeah tf2 sucks because I keep dying before my ubercharge is full." The problem mis that your not being cautious at all when you have the possibility of losing everything. YOU LITTERALY SAY THAT BEEFALO TEND TO BITE OFF MORE THAN THEY CAN CHEW. THE BEEFALO ARE NOT THE ONES BITING, ITS YOU, YOUR THE ONE BITING, YOUR THE ONE GOING TO PLACES YOU SHOULDENT BE GOING TO. Also, the statement about having fun with a world before rifts is stupid. That statement is the equivalent of going into terreria and saying "oh yeah, I should be able to have fun in prehardmode before destroying my world with corruption." YOU CAN HAVE FUN. IF YOU COULDENT IT WOUDLENT EXIST. You also complain about brightshades. In all your footage, your farm is directly inside your base. Thats why you hate them, JUST DONT PUT YOUR FARM IN YOUR BASE. If you do that, then suddenly you dont have to deal with them killing you while your crafting or whatever. your first valid point is at 22:20 in the video. You should have more interesting things on late game weapons. Thats correct. Its the first not incoherent thing youve said. at 26:05 you go back to nonsense. There is counterplay, just dont put your farm in your base. thats it. There are multiple structures that stop glass rains, the tents, the siesta lean to, you know, SHELTER. It gives more use to items that otherwise arent used nearly enough. I do not care if the game is uncompromising. I do care that it has progression and things change and its not the same things the entire time. back to good points 30:42 it would be a good idea to add some easier way to get lunar shards, after the celestial champion so you don't have to farm the boss. That would be a good addition. What do you mean you don't say that. What do you mean you argue for making the thing easier to do instead of having it be a one time thing and then there is an easier way after its done. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOUR RELAPSING ON YOUR FIRST BAD TAKE ABOUT MAKING THINGS EASIER INSTEAD OF JUST ADDING ALTERNATIVE WAYS TO DO THINGS. PLEASE STOP. I genuinely started having a mental breakdown due to how bad the points in this video are. I expected better from you Im disappointed.

[@dwight3555]

Very good points all around, though you shouldn't be surprised by this video. Almost all "pro-players" of this game adamantly defend cheats because they want to feel superior to everyone else, it's always only them who complain about glitches and bugs being fixed. One in particular on the forums for example, a certain KCDA, constantly acted snobbish and judgemental towards everyone, and once a bug that allowed you to plant 500 trees at the exact same spot was fixed, he lost his mind. They're bug and glitches abusers who think it makes them good.

[@chirsgw5360]

You're a buffoon. I'm not reading your badly formatted essay. Teleports in a character to make them "Good characters" is not a well designed character. They have an effective fast travel in a game where time the most precious thing in the end game.

[@viniciusgoulart5077]

Well said, nice to see so many well constructed points on this comment section. Even though I respect Exo, I don't aggree with many of his points

[@squidward8502]

I swear, if I hear the phrase "quote, unquote" again.....

[@blacklight683]

My problem with dst, minecraft, and oxi is After midgame, it just feels boring to me. it's gotten to the point the second i get a full set of diamond tools in minecraft i just start a new world..idk why it feels so boring even though its supposed to be you transitioning from "i need to survive" to "what do i want to do for no reason"

[@M1indI]

same here

[@joshsolders5543]

I agree the rifts could use some QoL. Some choices they made weren't the best. There are some solutions, but they are either niche or unintuitive. I thought they were worth mentioning here, but more options might not hurt to have. Knobbly Trees completely block the projectiles from the rain, so you can build your base under some and just ignore the storm... unless you have a frog rain. I haven't personally experienced those with lunar rifts active. The tree doesn't stop frogs, but frog rain is less common than regular rain... You can ignore a lot of brightshade problems by convincing one to spawn on a specific plant then planting the rest of your plants outside its 3 tile attack range, but inside the 7.5 tile range where more brightshades can't spawn. There is a guide for this that explains this well. The inherent problem is its a guide not in the game, but the game mechanic exists. Likewise, since brightshades prioritize player placed plants, you can set up a location of your choosing to spawn them. The cave stuff is harder to manage, mainly because the acid rain requires you to make healing salve AND THEN another recipe on top of that. Spider farm gets the glands sure, burning stuff gets the ash, marble trees for marble, and visit ponds for nitre after an acid rain, but also pick up the slurtle slime while you are at it. Its a lot of gathering for... half a day of immunity? Ickers... I think you are fine on a beefalo, not sure.

[@dumbvillage9253]

"To make it "Challenging"." Don't Starve in it's current state completely lacks challenging aspects due to power creep. It's why I even do all this shit legitimately. I want to play Don't Starve, an uncompromisinng survival game. Not a "ignore the little challenges left" simulator. I don't want to use obvious exploits to make the game even easier, than it is already. Also, EWWWWWWW! "Game Design". Such a pretentious term, used by people, who don't actually know anything. People should quit pretending like their subjective tastes are "game design". Gamers need to learn how to put their ego aside again. "I don't like this" is better than "It's objectively bad game design".

[@CouchDays]

Firstly just wanna say I love your content and am happy that you are a voice in the DST community Second I think void walking is cheating because it is an unintended glitch. Unplanned and not supported by Klei. In whether it should or should not be a mechanic there is more room for opinions. Your example of switching to Wortox and teleporting then making a lazy deserter, for example, both are actions that force the player to interact with different game mechanics to accomplish a goal. It gives a nice value to an item (the Lazy deserter.) that is often unused. As for endgame and whatnot. It seems like with the post boss rifts, enemies and items it seems like the plan is for Fuelweaver and Champion to become midgame bosses not the finals.

[@vaalfify]

Exo is asking for an alternative solution similar to void walking to Atrium that isn't character-dependent nor more expensive than swapping to a different character. The only tradeoff for swapping to wortox (who also excels in the afw fight in a casual context due to teleporting out of bonecages and group healing, afw is a closed-quarters fight) is the moonrocks/gems of making the portal, which is nominal in a lategame context. If your goal is to go to the atrium quickly, for a group, having one swap to Wortox each time if a tp character isn't present already seems like the no-brainer time-wise. Utilizing lazy-deserter is a given time-wise because only one needs to make the trip there and is gotten passively. Wanda/nona dont have to utilize that, which is why he mentioned the deserter in particular, I assume.

[@stinkysoup2884]

depending on how you play the game, if you're not gonna go for lategame or can't stick around for that amount of time (such as on public servers), you're just never gonna reach that point i've never reached the endgame myself despite how much time i've spent on this game the amount of pure TIME that it takes to get to that point is, while understandable, very unfortunate, considering how much new content tends to add onto the lategame

[@stinkysoup2884]

having to beat 2 final bosses that require a lot of prep is a big ask just to enable rifts imo

[@falafelsirs4030]

What are your thoughts on messing with the settings to fix most of the problems you've identified? You can manually dial back all of those settings, but is that good enough?

[@TheVicelion]

Bro's arguing that they removed cheating ☠☠☠☠ If you "have already" the resourses to go trough the atrium with a breeze, then do so, play the game and don't complain. Otherwise just mod it or whatever, I don't want people joining my server to start voidwalking while I do things the legal way, and before there was no way to stop them.

[@teamwithpie]

bro i just started watching your channel from your maxwell rework video and got so shocked by hearing the outro music!! Drawn To Life was my childhood and i have +100 respec ans subscribed now

[@IriamDwa-Strzay]

Bro literally if u want to play in the late game and u cannot deal with the acid rain? (umbralla) Cave ins ? (pillars? rock are cheap as hell in late game because of stonefruit) And u can make a gigant farming area without brightshades using the circle method,....U can spray decorative plants to prevent bshades of infesting them too. Also u can just farm in caves u know. The issue with late game skilltree points is invalid in my opinion becuase late game skills are totally op and usually break the early game( I do not use them to the point of defeating cc and fuel that is my choice ik but it makes sense for me). The 1 and only thing that i agree with you are ickers, they are annoying as hell buuut they also drop milion nightmere fuel to compensate the time fidghting them, i never farm fuel again bcs of them and it is kinda smooth and makes fuel a more of a common resource later. Overall i think that the only thing that the game is lacking in the late game is a way to prevent meteor showers to enable building in rocky and mosaic biome and also we need a huuuuge ice crystalizer buff... This thing schould have a gigant range like a biome? half a biome maybe? Just to prevent wildfires and overally make building lategame easier. Just enable players to do the creative work thay want. Do u agree?

[@dwight3555]

Ickers are imo just way too common, they give a stupidly high amount of nightmare fuel (literally around 30 per icker wave), I think ickers should be limited to 1 wave per rift cycle because it gets ridiculous how you can get nearly 100 nightmare fuel in just a few minutes.

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

I like the fact they added end game stuff because it was basically just kill fuelweaver you're done. Now the fact that they've been doing that for 2 years is ridiculous

[@diananer]

Bro do you ever stop complaining?

[@hench6109]

I have a ton of hours on this game and can comfortably beat every normal boss except fuelweaver crab king, and celestial champion, it’s annoying how most of the good perks from wormwood require you to beat the bosses before using them, I like how you mentioned how most ppl will never get to see the content, it’s something you never see mentioned from most creators

[@dwight3555]

That's what less powerful perks are for though. Characters with skill trees are mostly designed so that you have weaker perks that mostly help new players, and better perks for experienced players.

[@hench6109]

@@dwight3555 i get that for most characters however wormwoods ability to get cute saladmanders, lightbugs, and carrats are integral to playing him because without them he's lonely

[@Laireso]

Idk why you enjoy obvious and very OP exploits. It's like there was a hidden immortality by typing "banana" in chat, you'd use it because "gathering healing items just takes time therefore using this exploit I only save time so it's fine" If the game doesn't challenge you and you don't want to change your play style from abusing all the unintended interactions and mechanics that make your games easy then just leave for a different game... Stop trying to treat this PvE game like a competitive PvP game where you have to exploit every little nook and cranny to be on equal playing field as your opponents, which judging by your edginess you play/ed a lot.

[@dwight3555]

Correct

[@michalvrabec454]

i don't think endgame has problems, i think klei did everything right, all they need to do now is keep adding more endgame threats that keeps u from getting bored

[@dwight3555]

"options that players have found and perfected" bro, it's literally just opening and closing a gate on any border. Voidwalking was an obviously unintended glitch, and is indefensible as a "mechanic". Argue for bridges to work in the atrium, argue for ways to burn the spider web on the ground, but don't argue for glitches. And it's what makes so many "pro-players" lose a ton of credibility, when they pretend abusing glitches is a normal way of playing the game. Normal players feel shame and like they're cheating if they use obvious glitches, it's not a matter of "skill", especially not with glitches so easy to perform; but of honor. And seeing that it's never noobs but always "pros" who throw a fit when a glitch gets removed is always funny.

[@hurdusunce4945]

The caves are nothing like the ones I played in a few years ago, apart from the brick armor and the light bulb there is no point in going in there for me. As if the number of absurd shadow creatures wasn't enough, 1k health shadow creatures have been added...

[@xxGreenRoblox]

Wormwood should be able to have his right lunar path's armor crafted with moonrock

[@Alias0225]

I made a comment on Jakey Saurus video of him covering the new update in regards to the void walk patch. It only avoided the annoying part for finding the atrium ( or that's what I only used it for) People use cheese strategies to avoid engaging with annoying,costly, inefficient or sub optimal mechanics within the game. So instead of asking why we choose to cheese ask how could the developers make it a more enjoyable or more worthwhile experience. ( This is why the current meta to kill bee queen is pan flute spam ) Bottom line is if developers patch and balance a game which makes the game less fun to engage with its a net loss. Games are supposed to be fun even if some of the fun comes from bugs or exploits especially in non PVP games. There have been a few games I used to play where the developers nerfed my builds which made me quit playing their game and those games are pretty dead now. ( Remember the Wolfgang rework and how bad he was initially? The community hated it so they made him even stronger than he used to be. ) So I understand why these changes were made but I do think it was made at the expense of fun and enjoyment.

[@thewindwakinghero7423]

The new Wendy beta had made me sad I hope it gets altered.

[@splits8999]

just dont voidwalk

[@reculi]

your reward for clearing the atrium is access to fuelweaver duh. also yes, character swapping for gimmicks is very close to cheating

[@jessicavazquez6082]

You can acsess all of winonas skill tree without killing fuel weaver or cesltial champion

[@supremegamingepic]

Why the hell do the charged moonrocls rot what is the point of that

[@vaalfify]

Hey, chubbyfiend here. Enjoyed playing. Maybe we could play again sometime, eh? Voidwalking seems like the right decision to remove, though I would've gave it a little more time personally to let people try the content for a bit more without having to worry aboutt it. Many who don't follow the game externally are unaware it exists and it's nature of being optional and more difficult to discover. It wouldnt affect what people would try in any way in a casual playthrough. There was some accommodation for it's removal, but not a lot. Making shadow atrium tentapillar obvious in spawn in a set location (green mushroom or bat cave biome most commonly) and visible branch that connects to atrium guaranteed. My proposed solution for balancing rushing AFW is what I said on the forum months ago; I would guarantee a Lazy Explorer on the first Ancient Guardian kill, giving the option for any character to skip traversing the void if they don't want to playing vanilla. They would need Moggles and to find the guaranteed bridge connection between ruins and Shadow Labyrynth if they wanted to kill AFW before winter without having to traverse the tentapillars or atrium. The limiting factor is that there's only 1 lazy explorer, so this is more solo-orientated. I'd say if you have two people, one rushing magic for nightmare amulets and tentapillars instead isn't that farfetched. (I assume you are going magic-less if you're rushing afw solo). As for how this process is repeatable, Find a route that leads to the least teleports but is still fast. Decon staff when it's on 5% so you can craft it again with all the orange gems you'll probably never use for anything else. Kill AFW using means that doesn't require any teleporting so preserve lazy explorer uses (Though if you see avoiding bonecages as cheesing you're in for a lot of pain, one of weather variety in particular. I am completely for making it able to be skipped and not having to be done even once because unless they make the shadow *labyrinth more interesting or rewarding, it would seem like a chore rather than a challenge. I only found it fun as a base location or decoration because of how unconventional it was. Had no experience with the rifts so take what I say with a grain of salt. Brightshades being able to spawn in in farm plants seems to make farms even more useless as it already is the slowest source of healing in an earlygame context. There would be areas on the map you can farm that are safe from rifts because according to the wiki it needs to have a circle with a 12-tile diameter worth of space. Meaning in theory you'd have to make your farms you actually want to use on peninsulas + docks. And you can decorate with plants that arent affected by rifts with that new shadow spray. So there are solutions, even if vague. I DONT think you can decorate with grass turfs in a radius around the portal though because that automatically generates plants around them to make them renewable, I am hoping that would be removed once you open rifts because and give a better way to make those renewable. As for acid rain making you have to use the shadow umbrella, I'd say the umbrella is annoying to have if you aren't a beefalo user because suffering a penalty from not being able to wear anything else in your handslot seems unfair. Having an alternative form of protection that doesn't require a handslot, even if less viable would be useful. As for the ickers, I have no clue if there's a way to prevent spawning those so you have a good point there. Seems like someting you have to either teleport past or fight each time (more likely option being teleport past.) Good thing is, they do eventually despawn though. Hopefully you're headed to an area that's central like the muddy biome that has many branches if you dont want to skip encounter these by teleporting you have to know your world well with cave entrances.

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

Also if avoiding the cages and still properly fighting the boss by the point you have an item that does so which you obtain by beating a boss even some of the most absurd speedrun routes have to interact with in some way is cheating then wortox’s soul hopping and wanda’s backstep is a flat out exploit because it draws from entirely separate, significantly cheaper resource pools and doesn’t need a decon staff

[@shortcake6984]

unrelated but what is the music at the start of the video? its so cute, never heard it before

[@ozylocz4078]

You yapped and repeated yourself a lot but you had some good points. “End game” desperately needs work.

[@tksav]

4:00 wtf r u going on about

[@Dirt_the_cat]

Remember me😜

[@JustExo]

I think an absurd amount people are overlooking the part where I say that I was fine with voidwalking being gone, but that it sucks to not have anything to replace it 😔

[@friendlypootis]

Yeah but keep in mind you spent like 6 mins in the start of the video talking about it being removed and why it shouldn't be, even mocking people who think differently at 7:25, and then threw that one line in at the end so you could comment this if people didn't agree lol. That's just how it seems to me, you could have explored both sides of the topic a better ngl it comes off more like a rant

[@How2live0]

@@JustExo Most people don't care what you think about void walking It's just that absurd wortox comparison that you made

[@dwight3555]

You could have just said "removing void walking was a good thing, but I wish the new bridges would work in the atrium and labyrinth" boom, no one would criticize you because it would have been a reasonable remark.

[@CoolDolphino]

you say this as if you did not spend the first 10 minutes of the video comparing using an unintended exploit to... using a character's built in game mechanics? that require you to survive upwards of one in-game year to use reliably? and then proceed to mock these people by saying you "wish they would never work on a game that you enjoy" i'm sorry dude i can agree with some of the points about endgame being tedious but you seriously come off as a massive dick in your voidwalking bit lol.

[@azureblooet5053]

Yeah like voidwalking was so widespread because of how tedious and honestly sometimes obnoxious, so much of the endgame content gets. Like doing it once is fine, it’s a chore but it’s not horrible. But you have to do it again. And again. AND AGAIN. Like the rifts feel sort of feel like terraria’s incresed corruption spread. But in terraria, the corruption STAYS in one place. It spreads but it spreads from a location. You don’t have a giant corruption meteor drop on your house every 10 days. Like the Ickers aren’t challenging they’re annoying. There isn’t a way to manage them they just pop up and drag you to a halt. Like you grind out celestial champion over and over and it basically requires you to get sick of it. They keep adding quality of life things that yeah! Are cool but why do I have to grind this much for a basic QOL feature? It’s like the sawhorse, like its cool! But why do I have to kill a giant shadow monster to make a chair??? Its… a chair??? Like it coming from pearl is fine but I wish she’d just sell it. like for what reason can my character not say “damn I wish I had furniture” and have her help us like I’m confused.

[@eeevs8075]

To anyone that says "Voidwalking should be removed because its just cheating" 🤓, I have to ask, Have you ever tried going to the ancient gateway before? Seriously, You dont feel any bit of anger or frustraition when searching the gataway by "how the game should be"? Getting rid of void walking just made the whole thing feel terrible to do, you basicly need 1 lazy explorer JUST to go the gateway If you say "well void walking is cheating 🤓" It has been in the game for sooooo long, why the need to change it NOW that people got used to it? The total amout of players that enjoy going throught the atruim is 0 If you say that void walking is "cheating", seriously I have to ask again, Have you even tried to do the things? Have you ever fought Fuelweaver? How many times have you enjoyed that part of the game withouth "cheating"? 🐍

[@Infernoplex2531]

Just don't go for Fuelweaver then. He's supposed to be a huge challenge that needs some good preparation, ofc it's not gonna be a cakewalk.

[@dwight3555]

Cringe.

[@eeevs8075]

​@@Infernoplex2531🤯🤯🤯

[@tiqosc1809]

they literally just add a set piece for him

[@eeevs8075]

@@tiqosc1809 2 things 1. And? As the other persons comment you are just adding unnecessary information that wasnt asked for 2. The whole porpouse of the comment is to ask people if they think Voidwalking is "cheating", why, and if they also dont feel that going through the atruim is annoying, why justify that avoiding a badly designed part of the game is "cheating" and everyone should have to deal with it because "Its how the game is", I dont see any other use for voidwalking that isnt just to avoid a very annoying step to kill FW. And again if you think everyone should stop crying about no more voidwalking and deal with it, I ask, Have you even done the whole thing? Dont you really feel that its an unnecessary thing to do? If not, W H Y

[@supremegamingepic]

Why are so many people complaining about Voidwalking being cheating? I’ve seen those quality of life mods don’t act like you guys are better. Also VOIDWALKING IS AWESOME because traversing caves is soooo boring and getting past tentapillars and atrium is sooo boring so skipping it is entirely great in my pov.

[@chirsgw5360]

I don't respect anyone in the comment section. At all. You can all gfys

[@Rudy137]

opinion: valid