In the Prog Seat: King Crimson in the '80s...A Look at Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair

[@johnnysockhead]

Thanks for the great conversation. This is my fave KC era.

[@JCM-LedZeppelin-Stories]

Luis Nasser once again explaining the essence and concept of complex works in the best way possible that sheds light on so much more than ranking albums and "favorite tracks". As a musician and prog fan i salute you. Thank you for this program guys, it helps to better understand a unique period of King Crimson.

[@gregoryg3256]

🌠JCM ROCKS ..! WE NEED 2 UNDERSTAND BAT OUTTA HELL BETTER ...AAH MAYBE NOT..!

[@amasvodka]

Remain in Light is a masterpiece of progressive rock.

[@alternativepreacher4516]

Amen to that.

[@roberteustace7821]

Really appreciate everyone's rich in depth analysis - each member bringing their own personal experience and unique perspective to the proceedings... Always appreciate the great wealth of Ken's scholarly encyclopedic musical knowledge + Luis's always interesting (and funny!) nuanced and technical musicians view... This episode of SOT: In the Prog Seat is easily right there with the 'alltime BEST episodes... My favorite album: 'Discipline'... Songs: (totally agree with Ken): 'The Sheltering Sky' (* read the novel by author - Paul Bowles)... Satori in Tangier... Larks Tongue (pt. 3)... Thank you, again - and will be sure to revisit this episode!

[@trevdowson-z6o]

Thank you gentlemen, really enjoyed this.

[@ericporter344]

👍 thanks for watching

[@ericdinse5047]

The guitar solo by Adrian Belew on The Great Curve is one of my favorite solos of all time, just amazing.

[@KevinniveK2112]

Just saw the Beat show last night at the Keswick Theater in Glenside, PA and it was absolutely incredible! RUN, don't walk, to see this show if you have a chance to go!

[@GMTPoet]

I wasn’t a huge Crimson fan in the 70s. Court of the Crimson King was about it. But I got into Fripp late in the decade, thanks to Exposure, Scary Monsters, and a few other pieces. Then, out of the blue, I saw League of Gentlemen, and it blew me away. (Fripp sitting on his stool declaring, “We’re a dance band, start dancing.”) Also heavily into Belew, again due to Bowie, plus his work with Talking Heads. So when the new Crimson went on tour, I hitch-hiked to Seattle to see them. Again, blown away.

[@cshortlife9179]

Beat is my favourite King Crimson album, loved this era.

[@JaredRobbins2]

I’ve never heard any of them. Can’t wait to check them out.

[@VincentBautista365]

WOW!

[@brettengland192]

"Three of a Perfect Pair" is the album that introduced me to King Crimson in college. These three albums are by far my favorite from the entire catalog. I have tickets to see Beat in Richmond, VA in October. Stoked!

[@jeffkelty6636]

Once again, Luis nails it. Regarding the album art: they are done in primary colors (red, blue, yellow). Also, on Three of..., the background (yellow) with the red and blue design lines, pay homage to the first.two albums. Great program, gents!

[@richardarchbold4721]

Great discussion. I saw the first show of the Beat tour in San Jose and it was amazing. Vai and Carey bring some light and space to the sound of the band and everyone on stage is obviously having fun.

[@Eelgram]

The Austin and Dallas shows were fantastic! Each Beat musician is a master of his instrument, yet their parts interweave seamlessly and serve the song, not indulge the respective players. My King Crimson introduction occurred in high school, where an Output magazine article opened my eyes to then-new "Discipline," the first of these three albums whose music remains fresh and exciting to this date. Looking forward to your concert reactions, guys. You're in for one helluva experience!

[@joshcreasey]

Great episode, guys! I can’t wait to see the BEAT show in Cincinnati next month. Discipline is my favorite out of these but they are all phenomenal. My favorite tracks on each are…: Indiscipline The Waiting Man Industry

[@quintbromley2112]

There would be no Tool without 80's King Crimson. I saw the 80's lineup back in the day, with Andy Summers of The Police standing directly in front of me, and they were jaw-droppingly phenomenal. Fucking amazing on a thousand different levels. Looking forward to the resurrection later this year in Los Angeles. The clips look good, and they will only evolve over time. The music itself is timeless and unforgiving, and to get another shot at hearing it live is a kind of miracle that can not be overlooked in my lifetime or any other.

[@OMW66]

There`s lyrics on my 30th anniversary edition CD (2001). Great show as always. I love KC.

[@N1IA-4]

Thanks for all the great insight. I just got home from the BEAT concert last night in Clearwater FL. They were simply fantastic.

[@mintyfresh4987]

Luis, I fully agree regarding prog fans' misunderstanding of Talking Heads. I remember you saying similar things about Devo...both incredible catalogues.

[@nicholaspetergagg7769]

post punk influence is all over these albums and Bowie Berlin trilogy two great forward thinking elements to have when reinventing a band at the time

[@bradleystone2623]

Was glad I saw this version of the band. Laguna Hills, CA, 1984. I agree with Ken, "The Sheltering Sky" my fave track!

[@DavidSafanda]

This was a good one, thank you. Saw the second Beat show in Napa. You're in for a treat when it makes it's way to the East Coast.

[@TheRealDannAlexander]

Discipline and Beat are fun albums. Adrian is just a positive presence in all music he’s been part of.

[@wolf1977]

Agreed - a fantastic musician

[@mathewsandford3796]

Thank you Ken for the Talking Heads praise. Finally. TH and 80s Crimson are very strongly bound together, in my mind. And Eno/Byrne. It's all great stuff - as long as you have the appetite for something challenging.

[@noheamike5036]

The Beat tour is awesome. Saw the 3rd show in L.A., exceeded expectations. On the way home from the show, we bought tickets for a second show when they are coming back through the area. We new others would be grabbing tics soon and wanted to get them before his seats were gone.

[@alternativepreacher4516]

Thanks for this great episode regarding a key period for the legendary KC. Thanks as well for praising Talking Heads, that was much appreciated. TK was a very progressive and groundbreaking band(entertaining too) , at least for their first five albums.

[@patrickhogue8790]

Saw Beat a couple nights ago. Amazing show!

[@WarhawkBeyond2040]

This was such a fun listening experience and really cool to hear everyone's thoughts on the most unique period of King Crimson's history. As a band, King Crimson are one of the ultimate musical chameleons who are constantly reinventing themselves and always able to adapt to the times but still continue to sound very fresh. I completely agree, the quartet incarnation of Fripp, Belew, Bruford and Levin was truly special, they sounded amazing as a four piece, i felt everything got overcrowded when Fripp started adding multiple musicians to the lineup but those guys truly captured lightning in the bottle that hasn't been matched. Beat and Three Of A Perfect Pair are excellent but Discipline is a true masterpiece with lots of classic tracks that have truly stood the test of time and still hold up really well to this day. Great job guys

[@iancarss8349]

As usual this show send me in an unexpected direction, picked up Talking Heads Remain In Light and Fear Of Music off the back of the discussion. Excellent discussion as usual, personal ranking Discipline, Beat, TOAPP, probably need to pick up Absent Lovers. Thanks Guys!

[@Prog-t9d]

King Crimson is the most consistently progressive band . Always changing, brilliant musicians.

[@mdlatham]

I wish you guys would do an episode discussing what your sound systems are or how you listen to music. That would be insightful

[@Cowcodude]

Discipline is easily my favourite King Crimson record. At times beautiful, terrifying, mind-bending, and sometimes all at once! Plus, this era definitely influenced a new generation of musicians, truly a benchmark moment in music history.

[@floorticket]

I sat in line all day with my HS friends at The Greek Theatre in Berkeley in 1982 for Beat tour. We got sixth row center seats. We could have had second row but Sid insisted we take the sixth: "... so we can see their feet." Mind Blown! to say the least. Face melting stuff. I knew the music going in, had the albums but was not ready for the sonic wallop they delivered. Then, next year same place Three of a Perfect Pair tour but our seats were further back in the lower bowl. Still incredible.

[@docbobster]

That Berkeley show is smoking! I saw them in Ann Arbor around the same time but I've never been able to find a recording of it.

[@stevenpetersen445]

Saw Beat last night in Charleston: absolutely amazing. If you have a chance to see it, do not miss it.

[@mileendstatic]

I’d love to hear a roundtable fully on the Beat experiment now that it’s wrapping up. Seems to be a lot of footage already available but even better if a few of you caught one of the shows.

[@patrickmperri3379]

I'll never forget my 1st introduction to King Crimson. It was when they performed on the tv show Fridays in 1981. They came out and played Elephant Talk and it blew me away! I'd never seen or heard anything like it ..I was into Yes, ELP, Rush, etc,, but for some reason I'd only heard of KC but didn't know thier music. well, this turned out to be such an impactful performance and moment in my musical life. Huge KC fan after that. You can find this on KZbin. They played Thela Hun Jingeet too!

[@LarsBjerregaard]

Yeah, phenomenal performance.

[@pulsar861]

Great vid, guys. Saw the Beat show last Wednesday and it was fantastic. Vai and Carey played their parts perfectly. Songs sounded very close to the albums and the live versions I recall from seeing them in the 80's. Vai was amazing. You'll enjoy the show for sure.

[@progmonster4]

own all three but have not yet gotten to them in depth yet nice take and coverage of them

[@jimave]

I hadn’t listened to either of these albums before I bought my concert ticket. Then I immersed myself into them. I love them now. Now to listen to the talking heads.

[@attichatchsound-bobkowal5328]

Great discussion! It should be noted modern classical composers like Steven Reich and Phillip Glass had a big direct impact on the rhythmic concepts of early 80s Crimson. I had no worries about Danny Carey playing this material. It's obvious this music was highly influential to Tool. Maybe more than most drummers, he would know the correct approach. To me Steve Vai was the wild card. Watching Beat footage, he's doing a great job of honoring the material while maintaining his identity.

[@mrcabby64]

Saw the show in Anaheim last week. Impeccable performance. Would love to see it again.

[@mcolville]

I was there too! Completely blew my mind. I would have paid for five more nights!!

[@lobster4501]

Me Too !!

[@zootallures6470]

Belew was the blood transfusion Crimson needed for the 80s. Agree with Ken on Talking Heads. Was shocked by the few things I heard by band and I bought Stop Making Sense on VHS. I have never before owned "this kind of music." 🙂

[@shanemorgan5932]

I have to admit that my first KC album purchased was Three of a Perfect Pair. It was a mind f*ck for me sonically and opened up the entire KC as well as Belew catalogs. I am so looking forward to the BEAT show in October...

[@rorictoomey2762]

These three albums are incredible. Discipline is the best. I like the Talking Heads a lot especially Speaking in Tongues and Remain in Light. Adrian Belew brought a lot to King Crimson musically and lyrically and I’m sure that’s the main reason Fripp brought him in. There definitely are similarities in Talking Heads and King Crimson. Those who don’t hear it need to re listen to their catalogs.

[@srb-ef3zs]

Side 2 of TOAPP is basically a Bill Bruford solo album with 3 guest musicians 😎

[@passenger62]

The comparison to Talking Heads (not sure that More Songs is the influence, more Remain In Light) is definitely valid. Fripp and Eno had collaborated in the past and come from similar places, musically speaking, and Belew is in both bands.

[@pkats9093]

Great discussion guys! I will have to admit I’m not a big fan of this era. Discipline is good but Beat and Perfect pair are a really tough listen. And I’ve tried many times over the years. Even saw them in concert at the Park West and it was a fantastic show. But maybe I’ll have to try again!

[@walterevans5658]

Saw the Beat show in Houston last weekend, and phenomenal. I'd say that "Sheltering Sky" was the highlight. Steve Vai takes his chance to stretch out there and really runs with it. I was so impressed with Vai. He reflected Fripp's parts and of course played the essential elements, but also injected his own style as well. So it wasn't just mimickery. Perfect balancing act. And Belew's voice is still mostly intact. He sounded great. This is my favorite Era of KC, and they did it justice. See this tour if you can. I'm too young to have seen the lineup on these records, so this Beat tour is the next best thing.

[@dtltmtgt]

Louis linking these albums back to "Kind of Blue". Nice 😁

[@charlesnolan7602]

In October 1981 after 7 long Crim years, I saw KC. Oct 1981: Tower theater Upper Darby; Nov. 1981: Savoy NYC; March 1982 Rutgers Barn New Brunswick, N.J. Aug 1982 Mann music Center Philadelphia ( Jon Anderson opener) I hope to get to BEAT show. Sleepless is my favorite Discipline era song. I would recommend Adrain's 1982 album " Lone Rhino" as a kind of companion album to KC BEAT from 1982

[@ericdinse5047]

I'm a fan of all 3 equally ! Almost like a 3 album set.

[@SimS-uh2fg]

My favourite of the three ? The live album Absent Lovers recorded in 1984. A compilation of the best tracks, great recording, and KC has always been a live band that occasionally hit the studio.

[@kevintd9900]

Gonna see this show tmm in Florida

[@gokhanaya]

it was a very nice episode, thanks guys.. my ranking is Discipline, then Three, then Beat. For a long time it was Three, then Discipline then Beat but in the recent years I just cannot get away from the completeness and the might of Discipline. But having said all this, as this period was never rounded up with a live album at their time (the 80s) I would like to add the unbelievably powerful Absent Lovers double CD. THAT set is something! If one asked me to do a ranking including that one, I would put it at the top!

[@IraSiegel]

Saw BEAT last week in Phoenix and I now like these albums even more.

[@Drew-vn8rx]

Gonna see them in Boston can't wait!!!

[@daanthing6002]

Discipline is on my short-list of classic albums to buy since watching Sea of Tranquility. Heard some on Spotify and dig it quiet a bit. I have a beat (spanish) import copy of the Beat lp. Like the first side very much. The other side less. Still have to explore the 3rd one. Only know Larks III from youtube live videos. Great stuff. I love Talking Heads. Remain in Light is a fave album!

[@jimave]

I look forward to the Beat concert review.

[@jimmypage2843]

Nice! I'm seeing them next Saturday.

[@franciskocher200]

Nice video.😃👍

[@johnnysockhead]

I got Discipline from the BMG OR Columbia House record club of all things.

[@Larjschoen1]

Sorry, if this has already been stated, it I saw him in San Diego, and he plays his strat, in fact he makes a pretty big deal about by pulling off the cloth cover exposing it! He plays both!

[@passenger62]

To underline Luis's 'earworm' point, I wonder if anyone has heard K D Lang's cover of Matte Kudesai?

[@lahloonatic]

I will look it up!

[@willyupshaw]

How about doing a band battle: Which prog band transitioned best into the 80s: King Crimson vs Rush vs Genesis vs Yes?

[@mulicuy]

"Absent Lovers" is one of the tightest live albums ever. Insane level of musicianship. (as long as you can deal with Bruford's wacky electronic kit)

[@MetalMan73100]

I have never seen Ken Golden hold up a CD before.

[@ericdinse5047]

"3 Fingered Smuck" ? Luis 😄🤣

[@jimave]

I saw the show on opening night and they played a great set. They played the songs pretty close to the same as the albums.

[@noheamike5036]

Got the albums a they came out. Was a huge Bruford fan at the time and wasn't going to miss them. Loved them all, though 3 of a Perfect Pair was a little less melodic than the first two. Never saw them in the 80s though. My favorite? Whichever I'm spinning or spun last. All have spent time as my favorite, though Beat and Discipline have probably spent more time at #1.

[@trippcollects2371]

Episode idea: Albums everyone dislikes that we like.

[@soundsandvisionsHQ]

I'd love to see you guys do an episode on female-fronted prog & prog-metal bands - Mostly Autumn, Magenta, Touchstone, White Willow, Nightwish, Epica, Landmarq w/Tracy Hitchings (RIP), and, of course, Annie Haslam & Renaissance. Enless I missed something, In the Prog seat has never covered this subject or many of the bands listed.

[@robertdendooven7258]

Renaissance has been mentioned many times on this program. I think mostly by Ken Golden. Having said that, this does sound like a good idea. Add Curved Air in the mix too.

[@RobertParks-h7r]

Unfortunately Pete went over this topic a few wks ago.He doesn't listen to or review female artists,he only likes 3.Heart,Fleetwood Mac and Night wish,that's it,sorry but unless you maybe make a large donation 50 bucks? Or ask for it on Cameo otherwise its not going to happen.

[@jimmycampbell78]

@@RobertParks-h7r What? That's not true.

[@jimmycampbell78]

@@robertdendooven7258 Annie Haslam herself has appeared on this program!

[@RobertParks-h7r]

@@jimmycampbell78 OK maybe that band but he stated in a video he does not like female rock vocalists,I saw the ep,has he ever talked about Pretty Reckless,Dorothy,Halestorm,Meg Myers etc,he doesn't cover them.

[@eliunger16]

I could never get into this period of king crimson.

[@Fritha71]

Pete was dressed for the occasion 😎 I think I bought Discipline right around the same time as I bought Remain In Light by Talking Heads. It's surprising even to me how easy it was to get into both records, especially Discipline! My love for Bruford certainly helped and I'm generally very laid-back when it comes to vocals so Belew's voice wasn't a problem. Discipline might be my most listened to KC album, along with Larks' Tongues. Sheltering Sky and Frame by Frame my perennial favs from that record. But again, not sure why I never checked out Beat and Three Of A Perfect Pair... I think both of them got more slagging on the prog forums back in the day whereas Discipline was universally at least respected and usually much loved. But this show has made me adamant to go and listen now; melding prog and pop, it's bound to be listenable at least!

[@arunsabherwal6256]

The album art of the 3 albums depict primary colours thereby implying that other colours can be derived by the appropriate mixture of these 3 colours.

[@thekeywitness]

It’s disappointing to hear prog fans deride Talking Heads or for that matter Bowie’s so-called Berlin period. These acts, like the 80s King Crimson, solo Peter Gabriel and a few other acts really represent an evolutionary step in adventurous rock music-the thing that set prog bands apart from the mainstream in the first place. So, while you might not like David Byrne’s quirkiness, the band was adventurous as they come.

[@lahloonatic]

I could not possibly agree more.

[@gregoryg3256]

🌠U GUYS ROCK !!! HEY ERIC PORTER !!!

[@ericporter344]

Greg!!!

[@gregoryg3256]

@@ericporter344 duuuuuude !

[@JoelPrice253]

I never cared much for the 70s KC but I bought Discipline when it came out in late 81 (along with My Life in the Bush of Ghosts). "Sheltering Sky" was my favorite. Beat was equally good. Three of a Perfect Pair sounded like left-overs.

[@eliunger16]

Pete, your love of pizza can go father with the Australian thrash band Pizza Death.

[@efogg3]

Everybody knows the rules

[@eliunger16]

@@efogg3 I meant to the video where Scottish guy asked questions.

[@brettstrausser3846]

The band thought that "3 of a perfect pair" was not perfect like the previous pair of Discipline and Beat.

[@Nitramessahc]

I discovered these albums in the 90's so the order of release doesn't influence me, hence Beat is my favorite. I've always been disappointed side B has rarely if ever been played live. Best songs each: Indiscipline (Bruford highlight) Requiem (the classic Fripp sound so rarely heard in the 80's) Industry (best version Japan 1984)

[@wolf1977]

"Matte Kudasai" (aka “Please Wait”) & "Frame By Frame" are special. How good is Belew? Anyone who likes these records & hasn't thoroughly investigated his solo catalog should. The seemless melding of Beatles pop with avant garde and experimental guitar music, plus some really wonderful vocals. Two solo records in this period: Lone Rhino & Twang Bar King (both worth owning). And at least 15 other solo albums that're at least very good. There are other solo outings where I like more of the tracks but my fave overall solo Belew album might be Young Lions. For something different = The Acoustic Adrian Belew (1995), includes an acoustic version of "Matte Kudasai". Belew for me is one of the very best guitarists/singers/songwriters out there... Ranking those three albums: 1. Discipline 2. Beat 3. Three Of A Perfect Pair TBH most of the tracks off these 3 that I like are included on the collection The Essential King Crimson - Frame By Frame - on the last 2 disks. So if I were after stuff from this period as a 'newbie' I might just go for that set instead of getting these 3 individual albums - and as a bonus get a lot of what I consider KC's best/my fave period = Red/Starless...A little off track but Gary Moore's version of "21St Century Schizoid Man" (Greg Lake/In Concert 1981) absolutely slays! "In The Court Of The Crimson King" also gets covered on that live album

[@gokhanaya]

As for the Talking Heads issue: I agree that turning one's back on Talking Heads is just preposterous .. meaningless, ignorant behaviour... but you see people who see themselves within the prog world this or that way, throughout the years, has come face to face with many prog-haters, many stupid accusations and such nonsense hostile behaviour.. and the people who do this nastiness predominantly are the ones that champion Talking Heads and such bands... I think this is the reason why many prog people react negatively to T. Heads... that largely is the underlying psychological reason for it (which surely is not healthy and must be shrugged off for sure)

[@AP-sd1fl]

Byrne's voice is just as annoying as Belew's.