Incel Fantasy | A Book Review of November 9

[@Hapnote]

With context, that opening scene is absolutely disgusting. Ben is literally thinking "Hey there's that girl who I burned alive and left horribly scarred, I wonder if she's wearing a thong?"

[@presshusfightlady3966]

"I bet her self esteem is low enough that I have a chance with her! Because of the burns!"

[@elisasoon6035]

"That I AGAIN caused!"

[@ripclaw3008]

Well honestly I thought the opening scene without context was already absolutely disgusting

[@deen7530]

@@ripclaw3008Without context: Guy sees random woman minding her own business in public, immediately begins sexualizing and objectifying her. With context: Guy stalks victim of a crime he committed, immediately begins sexualizing and objectifying her based on the scars that he caused. Decides to insert himself into her life so he'll have good material to write in his autobiography.

[@jamespetitious1311]

No wonder why Krimson called it Incel Fantasy. Only incels could imagine a scenario where you can violently assault a woman and still go out with her.

[@mortimerwake2974]

"She left me because I slept with her best friend; my personality had nothing to do with it." is a very funny line

[@mediocrityproductions]

correct

[@Ponakalaranjit456]

That line needs to be Changed (By AI)

[@whateverperson2006]

I kind of wonder how much an AI would edit this particular book, to be honest.

[@ryokiritani28]

​@@whateverperson2006 deletes the entire thing and replaces it with screaming

[@whateverperson2006]

​@@ryokiritani28 That makes about as much sense as anything else, to be honest.

[@thomasderosso5625]

"I don't care about your scars" goes from sweet to insulting when said by the person who created the scars.

[@captainpanic3616]

Oh yeah that context changes things *very badly*

[@dogouchu4356]

At that point he’s just a villain which he is

[@k-master973]

I made the mistake of reading the comments before fully finishing the video, but knowing that twist before hand makes this LEGITIMATELY a fucking horror novel I don’t know how any sane person could write this and think that it’s meant to be romantic

[@BlackMasterJoe89]

Let's break down that poem in the beginning. "I am translucent, aquatic." So you can see through him, he's flowing like water. Water is clear. He's kinda like an open book, nothing to hide. He's honest and he's gonna tell you how he feels. "Drifting, aimless." But he got no direction in life, no purpose. "She is an anchor, sinking in my sea." So even though he's drifting aimlessly, she steps into the picture and becomes his anchor, a representation of stability in the wild, troubled waters of life. So in summary, it's about pegging.

[@owleeve2098]

I wish I could like a comment twice. I was nodding along and exploded laughing at the conclusion.

[@KrimsonRogue]

You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.

[@bobtheball5384]

This is very true and insightful!

[@thxwanderer]

The way I started laughing so hard at the end. This was a true gem. 😂

[@kristinfrostlazerbeams]

She's the anchor, ready to drown everything attached to it. I'd rather be attached to that anchor and drown than read any book from this author. I'm so glad I'm here to watch someone mock her terribly dark but bubble gum flavored crap. Lol

[@BlackMasterJoe89]

"Hoover writes about boys who get the girl when they should get the chair." That put a big ass grin on my face because this man is made of poetry and comedy or a hybrid of both!

[@kristinfrostlazerbeams]

The sarcasm is pure darkness with a witty and light twist that makes the contrast hilarious enough that it feels ok if not necessary to laugh. Authors like Coleen should take notes, intern under Kyle with the attitude and dedication of a young Shaolin Monk towards an old Kung Fu master, and make daily burned sacrifices of dumb pages she's written complete with a mantra repeated via prayer beads. Then maybe one day she will be adequate enough to write in her style with competence.

[@RubykonCubes3668]

honestly makes me wonder if Krimson would ever write a comedy (be it in novella form or anything else), because his humor would be an awesome read 👀✨️

[@larkhaven1582]

fr, in one video he said "she has two braincells and they are fightinh for third place" or something and this line lives in my brain rent free

[@mrosskne]

How dare men be lonely or feel anything!

[@JazniaDraw]

@@mrosskne found the Hoover fangirl

[@TumchieTheScot]

"To kiss the scars I gave her" - that qyote gave me serious chills

[@cashwalk7253]

🤢🤢🤢

[@zoeb3573]

How is this line not in a thriller

[@Persephone01]

Psychopath line.

[@hope-cat4894]

That's a good villain line.

[@Hello-hello-hello456]

This is just 'You' but without the self-awareness

[@CynicalReviews]

You're not sitting on a full throne of books?! No, good sir, you sit on a throne of lies.

[@Gchildwarrior]

"What is this? A crossover episode?"

[@BloodWolf752]

​@@Gchildwarriorwell, they did go over the first few chapters of Empress Theresa together...

[@Gchildwarrior]

@@BloodWolf752 I know 🤣

[@whenevertheycatchyou5442]

Loved your cameo in the mint mobile sponsor section, fantastic work.

[@fierybookworm]

I bet he smells like beef and cheese, he won't smell like -Santa- parchment.

[@juljul184]

bro really said, out loud, "you seem insecure so i'm gonna take advantage of that to get some." brilliant writing, colleen. very romantic.

[@juljul184]

also the prose is so bad like. i wish ya authors would use literally anything other than first person pov at this point. so many of them do not utilize it well and it ends up sounding like a bad fanfiction.

[@helenrose5383]

@@juljul184 Same, I have come to absolutely hate first person perspective!

[@thesyrupdude]

@@juljul184 first person perspective is so hard to get right!!! if not done well it can become very cringey or unrealistic very fast, and the stories would prob do better with 3rd limited. often thats enough to break me out of the book and put it down

[@Lucifersfursona]

Colleen describes how I got assaulted in hs as dreamy If I had a nickel for every time an author did that, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice Yes it did reorient my entire life yes I am still healing from it. Yes if that woman tried to speak to me after all these years I would consider throwing hands.

[@JoyfulOrb]

YES! It's supposed to be this awkwardly romantic endearing speech in context, but it's really just RUN VERY FAST AWAY FROM THIS SCUMBAG!! Go!

[@aziraphalethesapphic]

I remember at a summer program a few years back a girl had a colleen hoover book with her and we would read passages out loud in our cabin and just get so frustrated about how fucking insane the characters were. Like just a group of 16-year-old girls yelling "JUST FUCKING LEAVE HIM" at a book.

[@mer_acle8101]

that might have just restored my faith in humanity lol

[@AnnekeOosterink]

Honestly, even the less unhinged books by many other romance writers have me go "he lied to you for years, why are you still here?" half the time. Like, most of the drama in those stories hinges on one of the lovers to be a shitty liar who deceives and gaslights their way through the relationship, and the other just sort of accepts and forgives. At this point I'm leaning a lot towards lgbtq+ stories, because most of the time the problems aren't manufactured lies by one of the lovers, but society's lack of acceptance, or some other external force or occasionally some kind of trauma for one or both of the lovers, but it's almost never "I hid my mafia/arsonist/murdering/stalking ways from you for the 5 years we were together, will you forgive me and marry me?" "yes!" nonsense. I'm sure there are some stories out there that do feature that, but it seems way less prevalent to me.

[@aziraphalethesapphic]

@@AnnekeOosterink Same, I wasn't super into romance until I found lesbian romance novels. Mostly because queer romances always seem to have better chemistry and writing (and they usually don't make me want to bash my head into a wall) even in the shitty dime novels. Also because it's nice to see yourself represented in the books you read.

[@EKURAIN]

@@aziraphalethesapphickinda curious about the lesbian novels, do you have any reccomendations for it?

[@Kris-wo4pj]

​@@aziraphalethesapphicwhen i was in high school i read all the YA lesbian books in my public library thid was 15 yrs ago so there was only like 30. Alot of falling for a straight girl and hsving to accept yourself and moving on. I felt so seen until i realized "yeah no i dont wanna be the main character in these books".

[@CinnamonHat]

Don't listen to him - he IS sitting on books, because as we all know, Krimson's entire house is made out of books, including the floor!

[@KrimsonRogue]

Dammit, they know!

[@gracekim25]

Brilliant 😂 that’s my dream house

[@purrgundy]

Krimson himself is a stack of books in a human suit.

[@Turab_Afghan]

@purrgundy That suit of clothes is also a stack of books all connected to each other by string, they're just very tiny books.

[@WhisperLuck]

They’re in the walls! They’re in the god damn walls!

[@lilliefranks7246]

The fact that he started the fire really changes how it reads when he's like "You being horribly burned isn't the problem! All of your problems are YOUR fault!" Takes it from "pretty insensitive but I could forgive it, I guess" to "absolutely bone-chilling serial killer shit"

[@BlueValleyTS]

Yeah, I thought the same thing… I’ve never seen “Same Time Next Year,” but I guess Colleen Hoover did and thought that it desperately needed a crossover with “Gaslight.” When Krim started talking about Ben’s dark and mysterious past, I was like “let me guess, dude started the fire. He’s an arsonist, or he’s got a burn fetish or something, right?” Then I paused when she got ahold of the manuscript, and part of me was like “oh my god I actually called the twist! I can’t believe that!” And a slightly bigger part of me thought “dude, this guy is FUCKED UP.”

[@jamespetitious1311]

It really is an incel’s wet dream: almost murdering a woman and still getting with her in the end.

[@mrosskne]

Yeah it's bone-chilling how that's exactly how we treat men who commit the crime of being lonely.

[@lilliefranks7246]

@@mrosskne It's true. Every time a man says he's lonely, I always set him on fire, and then blame him for being upset about it. That's just protocol

[@JazniaDraw]

@@mrosskne found the incel

[@callistaglover7224]

I can't believe Hoover would make Fallon's mother be like "You weren't the only one scarred by the fire." Like that's the most unrealistic garbage. If my mother knew I had been retraumatized by the person who set me on fire and left me horrible burned, she would be in jail because she would have hunted him down and murdered him. What mother is like "Oh, yeah, sure, he set the house on fire, nearly killed you, and left you horribly burned, but because he didn't turn away from the scars on you THAT HE CAUSED you should show him some respect of reading this." Like what the hell?!

[@masapopovic9022]

that's fair only if you have a healthy loving relationship with your mother, but a lot of people don't and instead are abused by their mothers, i definitely know my mother would react the same way fallon's mother did

[@nont18411]

@@masapopovic9022 I’m sorry for you

[@ninavale.]

and mind you, this is a mother who left her husband(rightfully so) for cheating. and because of that told her daughter to be cautious and not flall in love(which is kind of impossible thing to aks, I'd get "not getting into a relationship" but not developing feelings or attraction, intially, is not really something people can choose to do) until she's 23. So, in this woman's world cheating is unforgivable offense, that warrants immediate end of relationship and further distrust of others; but commiting an actual crime, that results in life-long physical(including chronic pain, I'm sure) and emotional trauma and which could even result in death is absolutley forgivable, because the perp CLAIMS he feels bad about it. oh, and also because he was being emotional when he did it. and again, cheating is bad and leaves emotional scars, but arson and almost-manslaughter are much worse.

[@mariatourino9545]

I don't know if this is my own bias against my mum. But between Fallon saying that her mum is allways RIGHT and how the mum reacts to the whole situation, it sounds like she brainwashed Fallon into thinking she's perfect when in reality she's a terrible mum. I don't think my own mum would sit idly by if something like that would have happened to me or my sisters but I'm not going to put my hand on the fire for that. The amount of excuses she has for Christian Grey are infinite.

[@maddieb.4282]

It is realistic because horrible narcissistic abusive parents exist and I absolutely would not be surprised at one of them being so self centered. But you know, that would need a better book to pull off

[@subroy7123]

I think writers like Hoover took the wrong lessons from Pride and Prejudice. In Pride and Prejudice, she doesn't forgive him because he's a horrible person. That's not how causality works. She forgave him after she found out that a lot of the horrible stuff about him wasn't true, and he was trying to actively make amends for the horrible stuff he did do. Most romance authors seem to completely forego the "making amends" part nowadays and go straight to the forgiveness part, which is where most of the problems come from.

[@marocat4749]

Also that she was prejudices whil he was akward about it. Thy talked about it and , its actually communication done right to solve miscommunications. He isnt blamless either but he had preddy wellintentioned reasons and she finds out that context.

[@mst3kharris]

What I personally think a lot of people miss about Pride and Prejudice is that the narrative isn’t, “Darcy bad, Lizzie good, Lizzie fixes Darcy, happy ending.”Darcy’s a stuck-up, high-handed snob, but he’s also absolutely right when he points out to Lizzie that her family is an embarrassment. While Darcy’s interference with Jane and Bingley’s relationship is cruel to Jane and Bingley as people who care for each other, the truth is that Jane doesn’t really have anything to offer. Bingley won’t get money, property, or connections from marrying her: he’ll only get Jane and her family, and in Darcy’s opinion, the positives of Jane aren’t enough to outweigh the evils of the Bennets. (Lydia alone is a scandal time bomb.) Lizzie is caught in the same trap: as charming and clever as she is, getting involved with her means getting involved with the rest of her family. Lizzie takes Darcy’s criticisms to heart, as he took hers, and it’s the mutual silent acknowledgment of their insights and errors that lets them come together in the end.

[@liebenamor]

Honestly I see the point was that neither was incorrect on how they perceived each other but at the same time they over came the first impression. Darcy never said anything wrong but he also had zero social skills as if he was on the spectrum and couldn't gage the situation correctly. While the female lead was also more social weary and wasn't used to dealing with someone who moves through society without tact so it offended her it wasn't what he said but how he said it the thing about the story was pride and prejudice can go to either main character not just one. Depending on the era your read it.

[@spiderlily723]

Contraty to your delusion, there exist other genres than historical romance.

[@PhilipWester]

And when they do "make amends", it's often just apologizing and promising to do better after years and years of abusive behaviour.

[@Turab_Afghan]

"If you're packing underwear, that means you don't go commando. So by process of elimination. I've figured out that you're currently wearing a thong." Batman and Holmes have been real quiet ever since this behemoth took the stage.

[@Flareontoast]

Thinking about it, funnily enough, both Holmes and Batman respect women a hell of a lot more than Ben

[@cam66eleven66]

Men when they've never heard of full coverage no-show panties

[@captainpanic3616]

@@cam66eleven66…Well I learned something new I guess? Of all the places the comment section for a review of a novel. Edit: Although I guess it’d be weird if I did know that. I’m not… I’m not sure anymore. What has the dialogue done to my brain…

[@chocomelo454]

Do all girls just own a thong or something? Like does every single girl own at least one??? How does that conclusion even happen???

[@nont18411]

Batman might not be quiet but his parents surely do.

[@adriavalls2402]

"Blue balls but in my stomach not in my balls" is the greatest piece of literature I've ever seen

[@miguelmontenegro2188]

oddly relatable

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

"I guess what I'm trying to say is, can I vomit all over your naked body?"

[@Smallestpenis]

Who doesn't keep their balls in their stomach?

[@ctdaniels7049]

Me, making jokes in the comment section before even watching the video: Ah, the Blue Ball Special at a diner. An American classic. No substitutions!

[@2b-coeur]

that is truly worse than anything ive seen in r/womenwritingmen

[@mr.oaktree2016]

My non-fan theory is that Ben daydreamed the ending, was woken up by the wait staff, and asked to leave the restaurant so they could close up.

[@MiotaLee]

nah man, he woke up in prison. He fell asleep dreaming of thongs

[@mariatourino9545]

Yeah, he's delusional at this point. Fallon went to the restaurant with the police right behind her and Ben's fragile psyque broke completely and now he's daydreaming that they're together

[@gerenuk8245]

@@mariatourino9545you mean psyche..? Interesting spelling…

[@marvelousmissmysie4837]

​@@gerenuk8245 did you know not everyone has english as a first language?🤯 Shocking, right?

[@gerenuk8245]

@@marvelousmissmysie4837 uhh not that this is your business, white knight, but I’m an immigrant and English isn’t my first language yet I have a greater understanding of English than the average native speaker 😭 this person does not seem like they’re in the process of learning English at all, it’s just a mistake that I found interesting and corrected. No need for your comment

[@meysti]

There were so many lines that were nearly verbatim from past *exceptionally* abusive relationships I've been through. Absolutely a thriller, but like if the ending was a delusion for what the main antagonist thinks should have happened. Edit: New headcanon. She died in the fire, and each Nov 9th is just his guilt ridden delusions and fantasies. It would explain so much.

[@Sputterbug]

I prefer your version also hope you're doing well

[@ekcaseybooks]

i want you to rewrite the book DX

[@FauxGemini]

I definitely got weird vibes reminding me of past relationships as well. Not so much the stalking or obsessiveness (I didn't go through anything THAT bad) but moreso just the subtle jabs disguised as "tough love", and the "stop feeling sorry for yourself" victim-blaming narrative... that made me cringe. It's very easy to go straight into emotional abuse from that.

[@becuaseimbored3481]

It's weird because "It ends with us" was based on her mother's abusive partner. You'd think Colleen would know better.

[@Poultry_ma]

Let’s be so honest your headcanon would’ve been a good book. But this is Colleen Hoover :( I guarantee we’re not in an unreliable narrator situation. This book just sucks

[@Zealous_Delusional]

Person with OCD here. I feel it important to repeatedly point out that OCD does not mean neat-freak/germaphobe, it denotes a need to perform certain rituals/behaviors or having repetitive thoughts and fixations, usually to establish some artificial security and alleviate anxiety. Someone with OCD may be compelled to never clean an object or even themselves or subconsciously touch things even if they consciously know it’s harmful. Not saying compulsions never involve cleaning but it’s just such an old stereotype and it’s pervasive, to the point it’s just a flippant comment, “oh you’re slightly more organized that average, lol you’re so OCD.” It’s worse now that people say it about themselves as if it’s some fun quirk, not a potentially debilitating mental illness. This is a rant but this issue is something that vexes me constantly.

[@maeby3258]

I also have OCD, and I remember when I got diagnosed I thought it made no sense because I don't like cleaning (it sounds silly now, but that was all I knew about it back then) 😅 thanks for the comment, I wish more ppl understood that

[@jes8825]

Another person with OCD here, genuinely thank you for bringing this up

[@irradiated_woman8016]

Big thumbs up. I tend to be pretty understanding of people just being ignorant about mental health and other things of that nature-like when people have no concept of what it's like to be mentally ill I just like to think they're very lucky-but... I _really_ hate the whole "debilitating mental health conditions as ~quirky~ personality traits" thing. I think that it's starting to get a bit less ubiquitous, but I feel like I'm seeing people use diagnostic terms to exaggerate their normal feelings more and more. Eg people characterizing normal, appropriate sadness as "I was so depressed about blank" or normal worries as "omg blank gives me anxiety." It's like it's trendy to talk about mental health now so people want to say "look, me too!" but still don't take shit seriously. And that's why I almost never name my conditions irl-the rampant trivialization and and misinformation is almost WORSE than old-fashioned stigma. 🤦‍♂️ Anyway, theres my rant as a footnote to your rant lol. Edit: I misinterpreted the origin of the statement because I missed it in the video, cut some irrelevant stuff here.

[@Zealous_Delusional]

@@irradiated_woman8016 Oh believe me, i was talking about how this author just tossed it into her main character's inner monologue. Coincidentally, I also spent time in the hospital when I was 16, not for burns but for a lot of undiagnosed chronic conditions, and the idea that she can say someone's "just so OCD 🤪" for being more concerned about germs than other people is wild to me. Especially coming out of a pandemic where I would have most likely died if I got sick. That wasn't even part of my OCD, it was just general fear for my safety.

[@sydliminal]

I've got primarily cognitive/obsessive OCD (also known as "Pure O"). it's mostly harm & sexual OCD with some other obsessions I get from time to time - things like contamination/hypochondria or needing things to be "just right." it involves a lot of rumination, maladaptive daydreaming, magical thinking, superstition, mental review, mental rituals, etc. it's always frustrating to see something that has, at times, been outright debilitating for me be treated so flippantly, as basically nothing more than being a bit quirky.

[@abbewinter9249]

The reveal of the book throne being on the floor shook me more than anything in the actual review ever could. I always knew Coho's content was suspect, but the throne... I am a changed woman.

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

Same...

[@centurionsword2438]

Biggest plot twist since the fridge being revealed to be fake

[@GamersHolyArmy]

I thought it was built around the directors chair.

[@spigney4623]

I am pretending i didnt see that

[@Frooti.loopz23]

I’m going to pretend he didn’t tell me that and continue my fantasy of it being a book throne.

[@barraquinhadepa]

"I don't want to traumatize my kids by making them watch me go through chemotherapy, so I'll just abruptly unalive myself, surely they'll be okay after that"

[@irenoia]

You can write kill myself, it's alright

[@alicehanigan6062]

It sounds like the decision was more about the knowledge that chemotherapy would destroy them financially, for only a chance at buying her more time. Which is a much more understandable reason that someone might have for doing it. I mean, cancer (or really any terminal illness) can make it feel like continuing to live is meaningless, like you're just burning money and support to cling on to a life that's already on its last legs. I haven't experienced it personally but I've seen it and I can definitely understand how someone might believe the better choice would be to save their loved ones the difficulty of trying to keep them alive.

[@AnnekeOosterink]

@@alicehanigan6062 Honestly, the fact that the self deletion bit is reasonable in the face of the US healthcare system is ridiculous and dystopian. There is a plot point kind of similar in the TV show Hannibal. One character finds out they have stage 4 cancer, keeps it a secret in order to try and pretend everything is normal and fine, but is found out. They start treatment, and get pain medication, more or less to appease their partner, they're clearly not really into it. They have seen their mother die of cancer, in pain, and not even lucid in the end, just in unbearable pain, and decide that they will take all their morphine in order to avoid all that pain. That motivation makes sense, and even though it is relatively short in terms of numbers of scenes the character is in, the actual events happen throughout two seasons. So it doesn't feel like out of nowhere when the character decides they don't want to be in pain for months, potentially years and try to end it. The mother's suicide is based on very little, and since we get no insight into her motivations, not really, since we don't get to see her as a character, only as a prop in Ben's life, there is very little to make the audience understand her.

[@imgunnagetyou]

to be fair , as someone whose father had cancer and was in chemotherapy for , what, 2 years ? and still fucking died ? thats an extremely understandable situation. he had colon cancer, and now i (and my brothers) also have a high chance of getting cancer. if i discovered i had cancer, i would also kill myself, because we went from being really well off to almost fucking BROKE because the healthcare in america is profit only, not to save lives. i wouldnt want to make my mother suffer any more in terms of money, for the 1% chance that id survive the cancer anyway

[@ettaetta439]

​@@imgunnagetyouYa, but the fact that she unalived herself through a shotgun blast to the head and let her sons find her body--not a great choice.

[@nogazuroff7340]

Ben: "I especially hate yogurt that pretends to be ice cream". Krimson: "And I took that personally".

[@crowdemon_archives]

Soft-served yogurt is great shite, man. Love it with cereal on!

[@matt6223]

Ben is right

[@StardustCorvid]

Frozen Yogurt is fucking amazing. Ben has bad taste

[@sxatcychan1988]

Let's be honest. For all the pain "November 9th" caused, at least it gave Krim the excuse to enjoy his summer and go out for some ice cream. EDIT: punctuation

[@silversonome5360]

Frozen yogurt is not only delicious, it helped me lose weight when I was on a diet as it was a snack I could have without imploding

[@uhhhhu8533]

If only she wrote her 'romances' as thrillers, she'd be a billionaire and have better reputation. Can't imagine reading her books as a love story lol its like being in the mind of a stockholm syndrome victim

[@KrimsonRogue]

If this was meant as a thriller, and the ending was changed to something that made sense, I might like Hoover's writing.

[@happyjellycatsquid]

@@KrimsonRogueYou should read Verity, cause this was meant as a thriller and… I’d rather describe it a a grand failure on every front, and ableist to boot 💀

[@deen7530]

@@happyjellycatsquid God Verity just pisses me off so bad. It could've been a mediocre weird romance if she removed the twist at the end, and a good thriller if the twist had been different, or if the story had been from Verity's perspective.

[@jussalilguy]

@@deen7530 yeah it could've been a cool book with a fresh concept if it was from Verity's perspective -- like take the same Verity from the book with all her flaws and unstableness and unlikability but make her the protagonist so she doesn't fall into the perfect victim trope trap but a good thriller where this woman gives up everything for 'love', loses autonomy as this able-bodied woman moves into her house and takes over everything she ever built, including Verity's own identity and marriage. A lil tweaking to the plot and you could have a decent thriller with horror elements based on common/real fears. I mourn the book we could've had😮‍💨

[@abg5381]

"stockholm syndrome" was made up by a police psychiatrist to discredit the idea that the hostages could legitimately feel sympathy for their captors after they talked and bonded, and all contemporary concepts regarding it typically fall under abusive relationship dynamics, ptsd, or trauma bonding. It is not recognized or has ever been included in the DSM nor recognized by the American Psychiatric Association and critically lacks a body of strong research. It's prerequesits are not only vague but seem deliberately designed to categorize empathy, sympathy, and persuasion as a mental disorder.

[@georgeweaver9665]

“You were only sixteen.” Yeah…no offense Fallon, but there are plenty of guys out there, who even at that particular age, wouldn’t even dream of setting someone else’s property on fire in general (let alone specifically their car or house) out of pure malicious intent…

[@georgeweaver9665]

I say this because while it’s definitely true that 16 years of age is not yet an adult, it’s simultaneously old enough to try and take responsibility for your own actions as well as have an at least overall decent sense of morality already established.

[@georgeweaver9665]

Also, last time I personally checked…damaging someone else’s property in general (let alone deliberately burning it to a crisp) is much more so a sign of being violently unhinged, as opposed to just being a teenager or simultaneously a person of the male gender.

[@SotheX]

@Coolerstetth.32 "You actually don't know that." Care to broaden what you mean by that? Are you under the belief that most men dream of setting other peoples stuff on fire out of pure malice? Are you simply saying we don't actually know what's going through another person's mind? Neither do you, so what was the point of bringing that up? (This proves neither argument and simply puts yours on it's head.) You could of at least enlightened us on your reason why you think so. George doesn't "know" that, but as a general rule of simply looking outside and seeing that more than half of the world isn't literally on fire, I agree that yes, plenty of guys out there wouldn't even dream of setting someone else's property on fire out of pure malicious intent. It's almost like most people, not just guys, aren't complete psychopaths or something. Or at the very least they know how to behave themselves and keep that little psycho-demon in check. PS: "Also adulthood is at 18 years old for one reason." Okay. For what reason was that brought up? Do guys magically become Firestarters at the age of 18 in your head canon or something? What reason are you speaking of? What does that entire statement actually mean? You brought this up, and I'm pretty sure you might not know exactly why. Again, very important to give your reasoning when making such statements.

[@Hello-hello-hello456]

He was 16 but she says it like he was 6

[@georgeweaver9665]

@Coolerstetth.32 well…the thing obviously is, there is INDEED a humongous difference between “thinking about doing bad things” and “actively going out and physically doing them”. merely just “thinking about it” is normal, “going out and actually doing it” is definitely not. the character Ben in question, unfortunately did the “latter” as opposed to the “former”.

[@imanna221]

How to commit the perfect crime according to Hoover: Step one: set girls house on fire. Step two: stalk that girl until you feel horny enough to approach her. Step three: gaslight, gatekeep, girl boss her into falling in love with you and hope that she never presses charges.

[@firefly56embers33]

Hold up step 1 and 2 the fuck!? Your telling oh God why who writes this shit why's it popular!? The ending wtf is that wtf forgive the killer and ruined her life.

[@edwardblangsted4540]

Step four: profit

[@mittag983]

​@@edwardblangsted4540Step four is baby trapping, step five is profit

[@deen7530]

@@edwardblangsted4540 This but unironically, considering that he turned the whole ordeal into a manuscript that I assume he wanted to get published at some point.

[@Captainn4t]

Honestly, if there was a sequel where we find out she's playing him in an attempt to get revenge and burn down everything he holds dear to him, I would be here for it.

[@Gchildwarrior]

I can see her burning his drafts of future stories 😂 "Nobody's eyes should be tortured by your bs!"

[@chelsey8737]

That would be a good twist and a good duology except Hoover is not capable of writing something that villainizes the villain. She is only capable of marketing abuse as romance and profiting off of selling abuse as romance

[@mrosskne]

The guy is in the right.

[@Project_KN1GHT]

That’s a fanfiction I would endorse

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

@@mrosskne nope. the guy is a stalker and abuser.

[@EpicElf42]

I think there could be a world where "boy inadvertently causes something that scars girl for life and they connect over the pain and regret of it all" works, but like... If you're dead set on that idea, it should be a car accident, not a house fire. A house fire is so much more personal than a car crash. If someone causes a house fire, that means they destroy everything-all your worldly possessions, the things and people you care about, the memories that it holds. It doesn't matter that he *only* meant to set Donovan's car on fire, it was still a vindictive act and makes it impossible to sympathize with his pity party. You can lose a lot in a car crash, don't get me wrong, but a car is inherently more transient. You exist in a car but for moments at a time. So using that in a story like this would stress the impermanence of life and the twists of fate-how individual moments can make all the difference. Even if you make him run from the car crash after, it doesn't inherently make him an unsympathetic monster. Ben and Fallon were 16 at the time of the tragedy. It's entirely reasonable that Ben, a stupid teenager who's been driving for less than a year, can cause a major accident that kills someone and severely injures another person while managing to come out of it (mostly) unscathed. Ben peeling away from the wreck in fear, being consoled/scared straight by his brother, him waiting for any news coverage from the event only to learn that damage was worse than he could possibly imagine... it makes Ben's reaction to causing a house fire feel like a joke by comparison. There'd be depth to that story! From the way the house fire reveal was done here, it makes Ben look malicious, and Fallon has *no* reason to think otherwise, and that's what the reader is primed to believe as well. But if that line was about causing the accident, we'd be invited to speculate on things; why the wreck happened, how he might have felt at the time, whether or not that matters in the way we perceive him now. And regardless of our answer, Fallon's given the same dilemma, so she can feel conflicted about her feelings towards him rather than completely (and justifiably) being disgusted by him immediately. This would come with a whole host of rewrites, obviously. Just off the top of my head: Ben and Donovan don't need to come in contact at all-you can still have Ben's mom take matters into her own hands, and then have him try to run from the problem as far and as fast as he can. Instead of tailing Donovan and just so happening to run into Fallon, maybe he tried to seek her out to apologize for what he's done, but gets cold feet because he couldn't stomach facing the consequences of his actions. Don't get me wrong, it'd still be unsettling, but it makes Ben a character first and a love interest second. As it's written, Ben basically doesn't know Fallon exists; he heard a girl was in critical condition, but then he forgets about her until the exact moment they meet. And his first thoughts are, and I quote: "*pant* *pant* *pant* AWOOGA" Make his attraction to her gradual, let them be friends before they get physical. The second scene between a fire survivor and the person who accidentally caused it should not be him changing her so they can go to dinner. You can still have him be flirty if that's just who he is-make it lighthearted at first before making his words more genuine-but for the love of god, don't give him multiple paragraphs about wanting to know what panties she's wearing. AND DON'T MAKE THAT BE THE THING THAT ATTRACTS HER TO HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

[@EpicElf42]

Each individual aspect of this story could work well in isolation, if properly built upon. But by slamming them all together like this, we come out with a very dark picture; one of a man who thinks he deserves forgiveness when he's done everything in his power to prove otherwise.

[@gerenuk8245]

The thing is that Hoover is (as proven by ALL of her other novels) obsessed with the notion of men being unable to do any wrong. It’s not just a one time scenario she wants to explore. She’s a sexist, perpetual male apologist who should not have the slightest bit of impact on the mind of any young girl because of how tainted and dangerous her ideas are. She lives to serve men alone, truly. Without any regard for how women may be impacted

[@Denise0001]

YESS, the story would be much less problematic and more enjoyable if it followed this idea. It could be better if he had been honest with her from the beginning, and shown regret and remorse for what he did. Maybe, the element of November 9th could be used, for example, as a suggestion from Ben to be a day when the two of them would meet to be able to reframe the fire trauma. It would be something like "Let me redeem myself for what I did by at least giving you happier memories that day." It could be a slowburn, in which Ben is afraid to admit that he likes her and offend her and Fellow gradually sees that he is not such a bad person. Obviously, taking away all the sexist comments and his creepy behavior would be great too.... Yeah, I think it would be less horrible if the book were like that and Colleen Hoover didn't love disgusting men so much in her books.

[@sadnessofwildgoats]

2:51:25 "Fallon has, effectively, fallen for a younger version of her father." oh my god Freud was right

[@gurigura4457]

Isn't he just.

[@skelebrowhovian6817]

a psychologist had an instant hangover because of you. NEVER say Freud was right

[@vinylcreeks]

Love to see Freud winning

[@Lucifersfursona]

Freud’s got a 100% success rate when it comes to a specific type of conservative Hey fellas. Just because the white folk of old did a LOT of incest doesn’t mean you have to keep that part.

[@Lucifersfursona]

@@vinylcreeks deeply cursed sentiment. Reflect. Repent even

[@fuchsfarben]

I think Hoover heard the term "slow burn" and wrote this book without ever asking what it actually meant💀 Also, my condolences for Leia :(

[@riverfitzgerald2867]

underrated comment

[@nemo4761]

Ahagahshaha :D so true

[@ASlickNamedPimpback]

only thing slowly burning about this book is when its in a bonfire

[@ishouldfindagoodname2416]

Ben’s dialogue is like when you play a dating sim and choose all the bad dialogue options that make the girl hate you.

[@UnIVCubed]

my world shattered when i learned that krimson actually isn't sitting on throne of books

[@thespudbud2351]

I thought he was SITTING at the very least on like a chair or something! 😭The fact it's just the floor broke the immersion.

[@danaslitlist1]

SAME

[@lukecalder7536]

petition to have him actually build a throne of books, sitting on the ones he hated.

[@Taco_Boy]

"Fallon" is such a weird and distracting name for a main character. Every time KR said her name I pictured Jimmy Fallon in a Wendy's mascot pigtail wig

[@Outlawgirl63]

It’s literally my name but spelt differently. It’s weird hearing my name that many times and to be associated with a sucky character.

[@dreamcast.0]

what ever do you mean? colleen comes up with only the best and most normal names! i mean come on, fallon, benton, lily bloom, verity, lowen, kenna rowan, ryle. those are the most normal and inconspicuous names ever! /s

[@ImaginaryAlchemist]

I also keep picturing Jimmy Fallon. The image wasn't helped by the fact that "Benton" just made me think of "Ben Ten"

[@kendra_t]

I came here to comment: "I wonder how many hours into this video will take before I stop picturing Jimmy Fallon"

[@andrewb6194]

@@dreamcast.0you think she’ll have a benson as a character? I hope he tells CoHo that she’s fired.

[@riffler24]

Are we absolutely certain Hoover didn't like...get in deep with the mob and get forced to publish a novel written by the boss' creepy 4channer son in order to keep her legs? This shit is INSANE

[@divyanshbatham8040]

how do you know that she herself isnt a 4 chan mod

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

@@divyanshbatham8040 A true 4chan mod would have given out the book for free.

[@artCharles]

I have to admit, the "I can read you like a book, and I believe that book is full of erotica" line made me laugh a bit. It's a shame it was probably meant to be genuinely romantic, and not a joke about how bad of a pickup line it would be.

[@Faucetofstone]

It sounds like a line you need to read like a black and white film actor but like a parody of one.

[@d_alistair-years]

@@Faucetofstone Now, I’m imagining Groucho Marx 😆

[@harlodmud9474]

It sounds like something Zapp Brannigan would say.

[@DerplingKing]

​@@d_alistair-years Somehow it just fits with Groucho

[@scienceviking4490]

11:44 I know you mean 'Since I started working on this video', but it's much funnier to imagine that she published three additional books in the last eleven minutes.

[@tommy_svk]

I thought he did actually mean it that way, the joke being that she writes books so fast she managed to do three just in the past 11 minutes 😅

[@KrimsonRogue]

Lol, I was going for 3 books published in 11 minutes.

[@ImaginaryAlchemist]

Seeing BookTubers tear into CoHo is so cathartic to me as a bookseller. I see *so many* customers gush over her books and I just don't get it. Most, if not all, seem to promote the most toxic, unhealthy relationships. Plus, her characters suck and never act like real people. They're like dolls she just has act out the plot. Also I'm sorry about your kitty. I've lost several pets so I know how rough it is. She's waiting for you over the rainbow bridge. RIP Leia ❤

[@Iberisnana]

What's even worse a lot of young impressionable people read her books, especially young girls and it's extremely worrying seeing them love her books. I've noticed a trend with her books and it's all the same, toxic, abusive and horrible relationships. I see this womans books all over tiktok and I constantly cringe, because her books are HORRIBLE.

[@xxkildarxx]

@@Iberisnana Parent your own child please. If you feel book sellers and the author are not properly informing parents of the content then address that but the "what about the kids" rhetoric used like this does more harm then good.

[@Iberisnana]

@@xxkildarxx I didn't even say anything how parents should parent? I only pointed out that it's worrying what type of books young people like myself are influenced to read which has an incredibly sensitive and dark theme. I don't even go around with the "what about the kids" because I don't even agree with this rhetoric, the kids are the parents responsibility on what they read, not anyone else's. As I said, I only pointed out that young people, especially in their teens and who are young girls are reading something that they shouldn't at their age. I only want people who influence people to buy her books give a warning for dark themes.

[@xxkildarxx]

@@Iberisnana Your first sentence is extremely similar to a lot of pro ban parent campaigns.

[@cleanchannel3029]

​@@xxkildarxxI think you're being a bit obtuse but then again you're probably a CoHo fan. Young impressionable girls should not be reading this book. This book promotes abuse.

[@cjparsons9730]

If I ever met Ben in real life he'd end up with a restraining order within 5 minutes of knowing him. 🤢

[@trinaq]

Agreed, exactly HOW is he supposed to be charming and endearing?!

[@pepperdee7437]

I wrote a summary of this book so that I could inform people in my day-to-day life of the whores that is Colleen Hoover and one thing I always say is that the book would be fine if that last chapter wasn't in there

[@Turab_Afghan]

Time traveller

[@katherinealvarez9216]

​@@trinaqby comparing him to Christian Grey? Or Charles Manson?

[@deen7530]

I got soooo uncomfortable just hearing the description of their first meeting. It feels like an excerpt from a book about a girl who gets a crazy stalker. Actually, it reminds me of a visual novel called Your Boyfriend, which starts with something similar happening. Except it's written as frightening, not a meet-cute.

[@TreeDwellingShrimp]

Summary of all CoHo books: Toxic man doesn't need therapy, just a good door mat willing to put up with his abuse for a while in hopes of fixing him and eventually getting a happy ending. I despise CoHo's books and how they're marketed to teens and young adults. They're a great example of romanticizing toxic relationships by making the abuse seem normal and like an act of love/infatuation ("oh, he just stalks you because he's excited and likes you. Teehee what a quirky guy!" Or "He tries to control your choices and life because he knows what best for you and is just trying to help, you silly stupid girl 💅 Can't you see he's a keeper?") without the books or author really acknowledging it's abuse in the first place.

[@Lucifersfursona]

CoHo is the kind of material that tells very young girls that 20+ man is actually as cool as he says he is and you should totally lock that down right away. Just do whatever he says. And I despise her for it. Real fuckin smallville cult actress vibes off her

[@dromalloma2651]

While I don't know much about Hoover personally, I've read It Ends With Us (it was recommended to me by a teenage coworker, and I'm not a teenager but thought, sure, why not?). Thought the book was OK, if a bit on-the-nose and prone to tonal whiplash. Hoover's writing, for lack of a better explanation, comes across as the product of someone who never emotionally matured past highschool. Hence why the men and women are written like Hallmark/Lifetime movie caricatures. A man can't just be troubled, he has to turn up that angst to eleven and be super-overreaching and overcompensate to the point of immaturity or emotional dysfunction. I'd argue the same logic applies to her female characters. Outside of writing the tried-and-tested fantasy of "fixing/controlling" a guy, as seen in Twilight, I don't get what Hoover's appeal is.

[@styxthistle497]

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but this type of "love interest" seems to be a real problem in YA fiction. For instance, I always hated Rowan from the ToG series, he was a real turn off from the Maas books. But back when I was 15 or whatever it never quite clicked that what e was doing was straight up abuse. Like, all the shouting and hitting and BITING was horrible, so, naturally, they got together. (I was baffled.)

[@chelonianmobile]

@@styxthistle497 I will never stop being thankful that I read books even younger in which this kind of behaviour was presented as a reason to kill the person behaving that way. (God I wish there was more Redwall-toned stuff for adults.)

[@ThatDudeWithBoobs]

It sounds like she gives the same energy as that elementary school teacher who, when they're told a boy is bullying a girl repeatedly, they say, "Oh, that just means he likes her~ I don't need to do anything about it, it'll work itself out in time," and are suddenly shocked when the girl shows up bloodied up from recess.

[@AM_on_YT]

“Large manuscript revealing a massive twist about one of the characters that may or may not be fictional” is a crutch Hoover has done at least twice, the same thing happened in Verity.

[@SpoonieCreates]

I love that Ben gave the equivalent of an “but did you die” speech to Falon

[@WolvenDragonZ]

You literally lit me on fire, ruined my relationship with my dad, ruined my career twice if we count me moving back here to be with you, stalked me, manipulated the hell out of every situation possible, and the first time you saw me after seeing the damage you did you immediately started musing about my underwear but you have a sad mom story so 🎉soulmates🎉

[@nont18411]

And all of this would never have happened if he just read his mother’s farewell note.

[@gerenuk8245]

Uhhhh I disagree with the dad thing…strongly…he was a shitty father regardless and that situation just further brought out his shittiness. He’s a self obsessed douchebag who never deserved a daughter in the first place. Let’s not forget that. His reaction to all of it showed the type of person that he was. Just because he didn’t start the fire doesn’t mean that he didn’t tremendously fail her. He dehumanized her because of his vanity either way

[@65firered]

Shang Tsung: "How deliciously cold-blooded."

[@francescov.3610]

Honestly as a writer looking at this from the outside, a way that CoHo could have made the forgiveness angle work is if what Ben did was an actual genuine accident versus him going out of his way to smash his mother's boyfriend's car set it ablaze. Like imagine he was GOING to do it, but instead of actually doing it, he just yells "FUCK!" and throws a lit cigarette on the ground, but the cigarette accidentally lit some dried brush on the side of the house on fire and it goes up in seconds. Ben tries to put it out with a garden hose but it grows too fast and in a panic, calls 911 and leaves the scene. And when he found out Fallon got burned, he's so overcome with guilt that he has to find some way to make things right.

[@Hello-hello-hello456]

Oh but that would make Ben somewhat nuanced, and we DO NOT do that here 😂

[@AshleyWilliams-xq7lj]

Damn that would be a genuinely interesting plot twist. It's funny how so many ordinary people have great ideas like this that professional "writers" would never think of.

[@jackmclaughlin9602]

Leia was a great cat and you gave her a great life. I just wish I could thank her for making me smile.

[@EmperorZelos]

Where is it said she died!?

[@thecursedcometh5499]

@@EmperorZelos End of the video.

[@gracekim25]

Aw RIP sweet cat😢

[@Vampress09]

RIP Leia. Good kitty.

[@bobtheball5384]

Poor baby, Krimson definitely gave her the best life a cat could ever ask for. May she rest in peace.

[@ianaddyman1006]

Gotta love Theodore immediately and randomly flipping to being a jerk because she didn't know how to write that scenario in a way where Ben looked like the better choice.

[@cosmiceclipse3142]

For real, justice for my boy Theodore with the pants

[@kinglewis6553]

And even if he said "she's not that pretty anyway," from his prospective he was set up to date some girl by his "friends" and it all turned out to be some elaborate ruse to at best get this other couple to work things out. At worst, it's some sort of kink play that ends with him getting jumped in a parking lot; he got did dirty.

[@SodaPopBot]

Wearing those pants is like wearing the king's crown in Vinland Saga - it comes with a cost of your humanity.

[@fierybookworm]

@@SodaPopBot underrated reply

[@thearcanamodernau8130]

It happens in a lot of contemporary stories, specially straight ones. Protagonist has 2 love interests, A and B. The romantic insterest B who was planned to be the "lesser" option at some point becomes a lot more interesting and endearing than A, so the author goes "wait, no, you weren't suppossed to do that" and instead of changing the course of the story they turn B into an uredeemable asshole to make A look better. I'm so sick of that trope. It's just dumb writting.

[@realmofl1ght]

"hoover writes about boys who get the girl when they should get the chair" is the most accurate description of her books i have seen across the many MANY people who have reviewed her books. 😭 like. ma'am who hurt you...

[@thefruitsong]

Hi. Former protection order unit worker here. Protection orders/restraining orders get mixed up a lot, but they have similar processes to get them going. When you're filling out a protection order, there's a lot of legal stuff you have to go through. At least in my state, you needed at least two incidents of where the person you're filing against harassed you/did harm/put you in fear of your life. Usually needed their legal name, addresses they can be served at, and of course your information. Fallon would 100% put down that she was nearly killed in a fire if she wanted traction. (Although it usually has to be in a certain time frame if you want it to go anywhere). There's a lot of court and people ducking getting served (some courts will drop the case if the person can't be found/served after a certain amount of rescheduled hearings) And depending on how things go in front of the judge it could potentially go to trial, taking more time. It was pretty common for some people to wait almost a year for their orders to go through. Even if it did get granted, there was still people who would violate it because it was just a piece of paper. And the filer could drop it, too. (Which was common if there was children involved and both parties were parents) But this... Made me think of a lot of cases were obvious abuse victims dropped the orders. The job really burned me out. Sorry, just felt I could give some insight on the process of getting an ex parte.

[@KrimsonRogue]

Thanks for the insight.

[@CharlieApples]

I wish people better understood why victims often drop the charges. And the short answer is a combination of fear, stress, coercive control and/or codependency, or because they can no longer afford the legal fees to keep pushing the case through, or because they’ve reached some kind of risky predicament, like potentially losing custody of their kids, or losing their job, having their own reputation ruined, threatened with retaliation, etc. if they don’t drop the charges. There’s really no “witness protection program” equivalent for stalking victims. And the requirements and amount of time and money victims often have to spend before they even get their date in court can simply be too much to afford (you don’t get paid time off work, remember). And in rape cases charges are usually dropped when the witness realizes that A) the police aren’t on your side; police treat rape victims as liars and potential criminals until proven otherwise, and B) they’ll have to face their rapist in court and describe, in excruciating detail, _exactly_ what was done to them to many, many, many different groups of strangers, and your story cannot vary even slightly or you’ll be seen as a liar. And you have to keep this all up for months, possibly even years, just for a chance at a conviction. Victims even have to _pay for their own rape kit tests_ to be done at the hospital, right after being violated, while they’re still in shock. And then the police usually don’t even send them into testing since less than 30% of rape cases result in a conviction, so why bother? Just throw it in evidence and forget about it.

[@AndImsomelady-fq6cw]

@@CharlieApplesalso leaving is the most likely time that domestic violence victims are murdered. It’s dangerous and scary. I’m not sure where you live but I have never heard of anyone being charged for their rape kit. That makes me furious. In my state that is covered by victims assistance and IF you ever get to a conviction the cost gets wrapped up in the restitution. Have seen the movie, I am the evidence? It’s shocking how many test are just left to rot in a warehouse somewhere.

[@2Scarhand]

Never got to do THIS before, but "speaking as a burn victim": Fallon having mixed feelings about her scars feels accurate, to a point. The scars really are stupid soft and almost hypnotic to feel and trace, but they're also ugly as sin. When I was little, I'd try to gross out or otherwise shock people with my scars. Scars that i got bullied for. They're equal parts badass, ugly/shameful, and an intimate part of myself. The problem is that characters aren't real people. Characters are supposed to have an arc, not just the mishmash of emotions real people have. Real people don't like their favorite foods because of symbolic themes to their story. So if the point of her mixed emotions was that she doesn't actually mind the scars, just what they represent, and these emotions are discussed and resolved by the end, that'd be fine. But based on how this review is going, I'd be shocked if that was the case. To just throw that detail in there without elaborating just muddies the story. Also, she got these two years ago? 25% of her body burned in a horrific accident just 2 years ago? I don't think she'd be handling this that well. The fact that she's still on any sort of speaking terms with her father is kinda astounding.

[@meebhasarrived]

I know I'm hella late, but very well said! I think a lot of authors kind of forget that when they go too hard for realism. Details in stories are supposed to have meaning, not just exist as set dressing lol. Colleen Hoover's writing is the literary equivalent of all condiments, no hot dog.

[@marymccann3500]

There's one very easy, very simple change to make for a romance between Fallon and Ben to make sense. Ben didn't set the fire, he pulled her from it, saving her life, not caring if he lived or died after his mother committed suicide but thinking that this innocent girl deserved to live. His family was furious with him for putting himself in danger and nearly losing a son after losing a mother, but Fallon is in tears upon learning because she thought no one came back to save her. Cliche, yes. Stupid, yes. Convoluted, yes. But at least he's not an arsonist in this.

[@celldh0825]

Or maybe he set it on complete accident and he doesn’t realize he did it until halfway?

[@BasileosHerodou]

Or how about he did see the fire, didn't set it but was too afraid to save her and now that he knows someone was in there and that he could've spared Fallon from all the pain she's in it drowns him in guilt

[@lionconstellation]

I already hated Ben for all the obvious reasons in the story, but the fact that he hates frozen yogurt is an irredeemable crime

[@kimeris_]

I don't know how anyone can even like unfrozen yogurt. Thats... Disgusting to me

[@Gchildwarrior]

Geneva Convention needs to be called on him! You can have froyo plain or with toppings of your choice. Ben isn't normal......he's an alien!!!

[@HenshinHeroesMedia]

Even ron swanson, who says "frozen yogurt, be ice cream or nothing" is still a better person

[@samkuperman9035]

@@kimeris_frozen yogurt obviously solos, but I’m partial to Greek yogurt with a capful of vanilla and some fruit mixed in

[@meryemcakr4101]

1:55:00 as someone who studied civil aviation I can tell you that, you aren't allowed to get off the plane after boarding. The crew has more than enough reasons to think you left a bomb or something dangerous like that in there. If you insist on leaving, it can get very complicated. In some cases they might have to unload the whole plane, match the baggages with their owners, and do a through search in the plane to make sure it's safe. This can cause hours of delay or even cancellation.

[@yusufkadar]

And, though they don't know it, they have reason to worry! The dude already set a house on fire!

[@robinronin]

“I’m not actually sitting on books, I’m sitting on the floor” feels like it should be in a Top 10 Anime Betrayals, just above Griffith 😢

[@nawa73]

I agree😢

[@optiquemusic6204]

Wouldn't it get uncomfortable sitting like that for long enough?

[@TheSolBlader]

Above Griffith but below wayneradio's fridge

[@TheLuckOfTheClaws]

It's in the same vein as "There is no fridge, I lied" from the wayneradiotv stream

[@ndawn90]

Alright, I have to say something about 3:02:25, where CoHo writes that Fallon received *FOURTH* degree burns to 30% of her body. A 4th degree burn means that the flames burned, not only through all of her skin, but into the fat and muscle underneath. 4th degree burns are very rarely survivable, because the damage is so extensive and causes so much interruption to homeostasis that it can very easily trigger multiple organ failure. If Fallon received a 4th degree burn to the face or neck, she would absolutely still be in the hospital receiving multiple reconstructive surgeries two years after the fire. She would not simply have scars, she would have had to receive skin grafts, she almost certainly would have been dealing with multiple infections, she almost certainly would have required a trachea tube to breathe through. And if we're to believe she received 4th degree burns to her arm, they would have almost certainly amputated her arm. It would be non-functional. Her breast would not have simply been scarred, either. She probably would have lost it entirely. People who receive 3rd degree burns to a significant portion of their body have to constantly wear pressure garments over their burn area, especially if it's on the face at all, in order to keep the scars from becoming massively raised and welted. They also require extensive physical therapy for years after their injury, and they generally have to receive multiple surgeries over the years. They suffer from excruciating nerve pain that sometimes even heavy duty narcotics don't touch. And those people still have all of their musculature intact. A 4th degree burn is going to cause extensive muscle damage, meaning loss of limb functionality and years of physical therapy. If CoHo wanted to write about a character suffering from extensive burns, it really would not take much research. There are people on the Internet who have documented their experiences as burn victims and what they deal with on a daily basis. I would hope even her editor would flag that the idea of someone with 4th degree burns over 1/3 of their body would not be able to function the way Fallon does throughout this story. Honestly, though, the idea of a thriller where a woman has to have a limb amputated and dealing with the fallout of that level of life altering injury, only to be manipulated into falling in love with the man who ultimately caused her injuries, and then getting some sweet revenge on his horrible ass, is actually really cool. The feeling the reader would get when they realize that this guy they thought was so sweet and charming throughout the book was actually an ice cold psychopath would be insane! It would be very true to many people's experiences of realizing that the person they fell in love with was a total facade and never existed at all, and that when their partner went "mask off", that was their true self all along.

[@WatchingWhileAsleep]

I appreciate the info dump! When I heard the statement about her burns I thought it sounded excessive and unrealistic for how Fallon is portrayed in the story, but I dont have the medical knowledge or experience with burns to be sure, so your explanation was very helpful. I find that research is half of writing and without it, you end up with, well, this garbage heap of a novel.

[@ZorotheGallade]

In short, ghouls from Fallout that have been scorched by nuclear deflagrations look at her and say "Whoa, turns out I don't have it so bad after all"

[@naan000]

this was so informative and well-written, ty for this

[@faithborak7375]

Yeah I think if she wanted Fallon to retain the level of function portrayed in the story while still having scars, she probably should have had second degree burns. I had a small second degree burn once from touching a hot pan to my arm accidentally, and it left a scar that remained there for a year or two. Extensive second degree burns would definitely leave more scarring but probably wouldn’t damage the skin and muscle enough to require years of extensive therapy.

[@bigslurpee2078]

If only we got this story instead.

[@transformerstrash8324]

As someone who likes to involve all her senses, to hear about Fallon having a juxtaposing experience with her scars was intriguing to me. Because with her sense of touch, they're soft and velvet-like and she likes them that way - to me that makes sense because the warping is, aesthetically, a pleasing experience in that regard. But when she looks at them, they're visually warped, ugly, and not aesthetically pleasing, and a reminder of her trauma in a much more visceral manner. I'm not surprised but sorely disappointed Hoover didn't go into detail about how awful and painful her burns must have been. That is something that sticks with you for life, and two years after the initial onset is a miniscule timeframe to be totally cool with it. Like surely it took months, if not an entire year, for Fallon to heal physically. So for her to be pretty mentally kosher a year after that is disappointingly lacking in realistic character.

[@nightmarehound]

Same, I could see this as some sort of soothing-mechanism as well, kinda like, say something happens and all your beloved hair has to be buzzed off, but you enjoy the feeling of petting your buzzcut (because it does feel nice) but actually seeing yourself and what you lost bothers you because reminder of the event and internal struggle of facing your vanity/not being okay with it because you have built your personality thus far based on having that long hair and feeling pretty for it. And then the mix of feeling neutral/positive about some aspect versus the negative mindset you have conflicting, because you haven't accepted or made peace with the fact. Like based on the description I guess it was written as a realistic flavor, but it kinda then made it sound like she feels like she should mentally punish herself for having the scars, rather have any positive/neutral feelings about them. Overall I might guess this sort of tactile soothing behaviour failed to be another of the things that could have been a part of the characters personality but then it was never utilized long term.

[@korih393]

Came here to comment about this! I don’t understand how he’s confused by the idea that people can have conflicting reactions to different stimuli. Like feeling the edges of a wound or running your hand over stubble you haven’t gotten around to shaving yet - it can be pleasing to the touch and yet offensive to the eyes/traumatic in nature. Or it could be similar to phantom limb syndrome - something feels different than it used to, something new is there/not there anymore, and you compulsively keep checking it. I enjoy how scars feel even if I don’t like how they look. This conflicting response in the character seems very real and natural to me, idk.

[@outercat]

​@@korih393he's confused because its not written in any understandable way. you are always feeling that level of body scars so it's easily misinterpreted as her enjoying the feeling of being scarred but not being scarred lol. it's just messy writing easily cleaned up with a little more thoughtfulness like yall are proving here.

[@1607hannah1]

Can you imagine being someone's housemate/roommate and a person you've never met just charges through your living room to tell you that your housemate's underwear is red? Like I'd just send a text saying 'Hey... so... this new guy... I think he might be insane. Wink twice if you need help and I'll call the police.'

[@princessjura1575]

I'm from Germany and November 9th is actually a date where a lot happened here, some terrible things like the "Reichsprogromnacht" where a lot of jewish people were killed, but on November 9th also the Berliner Wall fell, but we don't celebrate that since the aforementioned also happened on the same day some years prior. That's why when I saw the title of the Colleen Hoover book in book stores the last thing I thought about was a romance story tbh

[@rowanquynn9964]

I'm American but I thought the same. I always assumed it was a history book (without looking at the author)

[@notmocka]

I'm not familiar with any big happenings in that date but also assumed that it was a historical book

[@simonhirst3021]

I forgot americans put months before dates and thought it was about 9/11

[@mer_acle8101]

same, I'm from germany too and from all the dates she could have picked, this easily makes the worst five XD

[@EKURAIN]

⁠@@simonhirst3021what the fuck is wrong with americans actually, why do they put the month first than the dates?

[@blackvulture6818]

"This is one small step for bad romance, one gigant leap for common logic" - Colleen Hoover upon writing the ending of November 9th

[@ZorotheGallade]

Oh god, 99% of Fallon's train of thought must be "Oh my god, he is literally breathing! He deserves to control my entire life for that!"

[@lavendermarshmallowplant3229]

I can't get over how Krimson's positive tweets towards a "cute, heartfelt" romance novel were because he read it as a thriller lmao

[@TheChaosDragoness]

I'm sorry to hear about Leia. May she rest in peace.

[@Grim_Sister]

She was a good kitty ❤️

[@tylerfish2701]

The best kitty any guy like him could ask for.

[@marianatheschizoid5912]

Yeah it breaks my heart to hear she passed. She was an adorable kitty. At least she lived a fairly long happy life.

[@marocat4749]

Shewas a good comfort kitty for bad books and so much more

[@ibeamy]

I’ll give her this: she writing teenagers and has managed to actually WRITE like a teenager. Impressive!

[@mer_acle8101]

best example is when fallon is like "He treats me like a child and not the 18-year-old adult that I am" XD Like honey I'm 21 and we are both children XD

[@maddieb.4282]

@@mer_acle8101I’m a 30 year old child still 😂

[@Neogirl2004]

As someone who has had very visible facial scaring since I was a baby, I'm so exhausted by how many stories have scars as a flaw/deformity characters have to deal with or overcome. I know my experience is not universal and it definitely IS a valid story/character arc, but to have it every time? Eye rolling.

[@ALIEN-DUDE]

Tony Montana has scars and they only really crow on about it in the beginning.

[@letsreadtextbook1687]

​@@ALIEN-DUDEas we all know from stereotypical writing rules, man with scar = badass, woman with scar = deformed, would never get a boyfriend. I for one, wants more badass female characters to have visible scar to prove it

[@arandomtoad480]

What's your opinion on wonder? In my opinion, it's less about overcoming scars and more about overcoming the stigma of them, but I'd still like to hear your take on it

[@RinitaChan]

My mom has some scars on her face, and spoiler alert, Hollywood, she was able to marry a good man and have kids with him (she had those scars before they even met). Honestly, it’s really tiring how many movies there are about how someone can look very different from the preconceived notion of beauty pushed by society and still be considered attractive in the story and by the audience and yet Hollywood refuses to come out of the early 20th century with what is considered ugly or deformed with casting.

[@samkuperman9035]

@@arandomtoad480Wonder isn’t about scars it’s about a genetic disorder (Treacher Collins syndrome)

[@purplehaze2358]

The fact that her son allegedly assaulted a minor makes an.. alarming amount of sense considering the subject matter she writes about, and _how_ she writes about it.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

*nervous laugh* her son did what

[@UnprofessionalProfessor]

​@@elvingearmasterirma7241Nothing that has been proven in a court of law...thus "allegedly" assaulted a 16 year old. It's covered near the beginning of the video.

[@Lucifersfursona]

She does have !ncestuous boy-mom “maybe you shouldn’t have made my little angel hurt you slut” energy

[@arkkon2740]

@@Lucifersfursona unionically she blocked her when she was told about it so you might be onto something

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

Wow! There's lore to this!

[@CharlotteMcGonagall]

Up until the big reveal I was like "sure, Ben is a bit of an intel, but within the context of romance tropes, I've seen worse, and she's an idiot too". But then it came the literal dumpster fire... HOW DO WOMEN FIND THIS ROMANTIC?! Also, Fallon's mom is the real villain here. She should be calling the police, not pushing her daughter in that psycho's arms!

[@powersurge413]

I’m usually horrible at predicting plot twists, but as soon as the whole thing about Ben having some “dark secret” I was jokingly like, “OoOoOo he was the one who set the fire.” And as soon as there was some sort of drama around Ben’s mom I was thinking about how, “Secretly his mom and her dad were dating.” To put it lightly I am super disappointed that I was right. Several times in this video I actually laughed out loud at how absurd the character’s actions were because these 2 are weird as hell.

[@doge8825]

I literally just got to the part where Krim said “I wonder what he did” an hour in before Ben gets telepathic and I thought the same thing. Wtf you’re not supposed to use the first thing that comes to mind as a twist

[@atinity6749]

Same here. I laughed so much when Krim revealed the twist and turned out I was right 🤦‍♀️

[@33melonpaws77]

Ohhh no, are you serious? That's where this train ride is going? I'm only an hour in. Fuck.

[@sarinnie]

The fact that her own mother shames her for not contacting Ben after reading that preposterous letter is so disappointing and disheartening. Also, your shirts are adorable.

[@elafimilo8199]

That one is a Teeturtle

[@crowdemon_archives]

Yea, like, what the fuck lol

[@penginlord9396]

Not the letter, *the manuscript where he admits to having intentionally set a house on fire and almost killed someone*, and also presumably his incredibly creepy way of initially hitting on Fallon by focusing on what color her panties are for a whole day.

[@filmandfirearms]

Any real mother would have been wanting to tear him limb from limb for that. Even abusive parents are more protective than that

[@marocat4749]

Given what hovers son was accused, yikes.

[@Jean-Luc_Renard]

"I hate ice cream. I hate yogurt" has to be the most melodramatic way to tell someone you're lactose intolerant.

[@anjoliebarrios8906]

I'm lactose intolerant and I still like ice cream. my stomach just doesn't like it

[@kathrynroberts3552]

"No I should be sorry for being so flammable!"

[@kathrynroberts3552]

Followed by "The only way I can forgive myself for this crime is to have sex with my victim."

[@gerenuk8245]

@@kathrynroberts3552I love ur comments 🫶🏼

[@colossaltitan3546]

This just reminds me of the first fight against Jack Baker in RE7, where the car explodes, and he just gets out of it, fully on fire, and is just nonchalantly like "Oh boy, now look what you've done, motherfucker!"

[@endiecutie06]

@@colossaltitan3546 god that game was both horrifying and hilarious.

[@MoonShadow333]

Imagine the grandkids asking Grandpa Ben how he met grandma Fallon “well kids, it is kinda a funny story. All started when I set your grandma on fire 😊” “Grandpa you are such a goofball! You can’t be serious 😅” “😊” *awkward silence*

[@deen7530]

"Grandma, why is your skin like that?" "It's from a fire, dear, many years ago. I was badly burned." "Oh no! How'd the fire happen?" "Your grandfather started it because he thought my dad killed his mom."

[@chansesturm7103]

​@@deen7530 Cue the laugh track.

[@katzcradle6674]

This book reminded me of how much i hate it when characters "get over" their self hatred of things like scars just because their love interest says they like it, like they can't help themself they have to have somebody else "fix them" You know what a lover can make you get over? Things like a bad haircut, subble things like that, not physical scars. Of course a partner CAN help but theyre not going to fix it like romance makes it seem, you have to help yourself with that yourself if i make sense

[@Persephone01]

Thank you. This is how I'd imagine writing characters with clear flaws like scars. Im actually writing a story with a scarred character and he feels embarrassed by it.

[@yasminchan7425]

Her asking for HIS forgiveness was what pissed me off the absolute most, not only lets Fallon this dude get away with ruining her life, but she asks him to forgive HER for how SHE treated HIM.. are you actually kidding me Colleen Hoover? just say you hate women we all know you do

[@dianesaccomano2671]

Basically the same scene plays out between Barbie and Ken at the end of the movie. He doesn’t even apologize for what he did.

[@veggsbacon1891]

No wonder romance stories are mostly screwed up to the stratosphere. Toxic love is "gOoD love," BS NO IT ISN'T. Those Webtoon deadweights 😂

[@kiriki4558]

Is basically any anti-feminist fantasy. Women asking men for forgiveness for defending themselves.

[@kiriki4558]

​@@dianesaccomano2671yeah. That pisses me off too. And people still claim that the movie is antimen.

[@stephenjenkins7971]

@@kiriki4558 It is unequivocally anti-male, which is fine, but ya'll are so high on copium that you think otherwise. As if portraying all the males in the movie as either bumbling but handsome tools for women or oppressive forces of nature for women is anything but. 😂

[@audrey.d]

Tuck is the goodest little actor there ever was. Even if there is nothing going on between his ears 🥺 I expect he was rewarded handsomely for lending his extraordinary talents for that ad, nay, that performance!

[@KrimsonRogue]

He got the biggest peanut butter bone we could find. It's the one we had floating in front of him, lol.

[@Pepperjack1986]

I'm about 35 minutes into the video, but wanted to comment on the feeling of the scars before continuing. I'm not a burn victim, but I grew up with moderate to severe skin disorders. I was ashamed of my sores and scabs my entire childhood and adolescence, and was also always covering up my body, but once I became an adult, I eventually grew out of the worst of my skin disease, but with a lot of scarring. As for my scars themselves, it's strange, but I too unconsciously run my fingers along my scars. It's hard to explain, but the alternating bumpiness and smoothness of the scars is soothing somehow, almost comforting. Not sure if that helps any with explaining Fallon's actions, but had to put my 2 cents in. On with the rest of the video!!

[@joseantoniogomezrodriguez1724]

One simple way to fix the "twist" is to let the manuscript say he burned the house because he felt guilty, but it was actually his brother. Maybe say something like he saw him start the fire, he didn't stop him because he deep inside wanted the father to suffer but when he heard the screams of Fallon he called the fireman. Maybe they interrogate him if he saw who did it but he protected his brother because he loved him. You can keep the brother being toxic and Ben was just blindsided for the family. This could explain why his brother is in the story at all and also make him seen guilty but naive. Maybe with the years after his brother's death he could have seen the abuse he endured, and also explains better why he dated Jordan, like a way to distancing himself from Fallon instead of the missunderstanding

[@jøy_what_riley_loves_the_most]

That's a really good idea bro

[@Joey245]

A three-hour teardown of a book I've never even heard of? YES PLEASE

[@crowdemon_archives]

lol same

[@hsmacaraig]

I have no idea how you’ve been able to dodge this book for this long but I wish I were you.

[@Booksforthewin]

Stop calling me out like this

[@Outlawgirl63]

I wish I was you guys this book is the worst.

[@norbicsek]

​@@hsmacaraig Can't speak on the original commenter's behalf, but as for me, the reason I've been able to dodge this book is that I'm not a bookworm at all.

[@userabby17]

The sad thing is that colleen hoover literally wrote a whole book about her mother's abusive relationship and how she escaped the cycle and then goes ahead and writes THIS (and ugly love) with the same emotionally abusive men as Ryle.. There're so many people, especially young teenagers and even adults who read these and literally think this is the dream relationship. I honestly feel sorry for them that they haven't been educated enough to realise that this sort of relationship is absolutely horrendous. If you break it down a girl gets burnt and is insecure about her burns and no one helps her, then the arsonist who set the fire responsible for her burns tracks her down and pretends to be her boyfriend, and becomes so obsessed with her and trying to "fix her". Then she finds out he set the fire, but instead of turning him into the police she FORGIVES HIM? And even APOLOGISES for breaking his heart?? It sounds like a psychological horror book about a girl with mental issues and a crazed arsonist.

[@ninavale.]

Apparently "it ends with us" ends with the female lead saying how great of a father Ryle is and how they co-parent well and how it was HER who set HIM off, so it's kinda her fault their marriage failed. Which in this context and with majority of her books having a guy do terrible things(including rape in one of them) he still gets the girl and is a good guy in the book; leads me to believe that Hoover holds some sort of resentment TOWARDS HER MOTHER for the marriage failing/ending the way it had, and that she is kind of more on her father's side and doesn't see him as that bad. and she wrote this as an adult woman, who should've gained new perspective, because she went out into the world, she talked to other people. and we know she on some level understands, because she did edit the rape scene in this one. plus now she's wealthy, she could've gone to therapy and like...realized her father was the bad guy. That even if he wasn't abusive towards HER, it's not her mom's fault.

[@mysideacc2770]

i know everyone sees their scars differently, but coho's introduction to fallon's scar feel so off to me. scars are something i've felt a lot more strongly about ever since i got my own ugly big scar from an event i don't like remembering. it's completely possible to write a character with complicated feelings about her scars and struggling with how she doesn't think of the scars how society says she should, but the way coho writes it is so disgustingly fetishistic. it reminds me of how onision writes about school shootings and abuse victims.

[@bleakautomaton4808]

Did you know scars don't tan? I didn't figure that out until I was a teen who saw her back scars stand out more after being at the beach with mom..

[@mysideacc2770]

@@bleakautomaton4808 yeah, they usually stay pale and puckered for a long time. i still have pale dots going down either side of my surgery scars, very obvious on brown skin. the one good thing i got from my scars is that having to look at the dots every day eventually lessened my trypophobia.

[@charlesboudreau5350]

Man I'm glad you found positive with your scars! But this makes it sounds like it must've been even more awful in the begining as they did tickle that trypophobia, damn.

[@bluetiger2468]

What I'm tired of is writers romanticizing scars. So many garbage stories have the love interest attracted to the scars. Feeling the scars and describing how beautiful the scars are. There's a huge difference between "I love you for who you are" and "I love you and your scars". You can love a person, acknowledge their scars as part of them, and look past that. But it's disturbing when an author goes in-depth about how much the love-interest loves those scars. Because it's implying that the love-interest romanticizes the fact that the person got hurt. It implies that if the person didn't get hurt, they would be less attractive. Basically, it's romanticizing trauma. Which is gross.

[@DimDiplocaulus]

My Barnes and noble has an entire romance section called 'anything but Colleen Hoover' and... yea I get why

[@mittag983]

Your barnes and noble is legendary 🤌

[@Pandachu123]

I love the "tags" they put on the sections for certain book series, like "Find out why the books are better!" ...Stuff like that! 🤣

[@Outlawgirl63]

I’m Jealous

[@thebrokenforgottenandlost4273]

Unfortunately mine has a giant Hoover ad in the window

[@thelastmotel]

Using "Ladybug" (we call them 'ladybirds' here in the UK) as a pet name for a burn victim is kinda sick... look up the poem, "Ladybird, Ladybird"... Ladybird, ladybird, fly away home! Your house is on fire, your children all gone,

[@Nockgun]

that cracked me up for some reason

[@Pillzpop]

It's disturbing how many books there are of these toxic relationships being framed as romantic. Especially since they're coming from female authors.

[@DSPHistoricalSociety]

Should really tell you how fucked up these females are

[@sinethembambutuma5825]

The day we see less of these and they no longer receive on screen adaption is the day I believe feminism won

[@antisocialal4799]

It also doesn’t help that these books, written by women, are always in the male perspective and not the female perspective. Which is weird because these books are mostly targeted and sold to cishet women. I just want a good romance book that’s written with the audience kept in mind. I truly believe these novels are trash because of the societal norm. If you are going to write about a love story of a lifetime, make it abnormal without raising red flags or cringe UwU I’m so quirky!

[@spiderlily723]

@@sinethembambutuma5825 Hey, wanna explain what kind of feminism includes censorship? I'm dying to know.

[@spiderlily723]

@@antisocialal4799 Then start writing romance and not DARK EROTICA. -.-

[@rooness2184]

I’m not through the video yet but as a visibly disabled person I read the part about Fallon’s relationship with her scars at the beginning very differently, not giving the book any more credit than it deserves (I’m sure it will only get worse from here) but I did want to provide my perspective on it It seems very human to me that she might like how the scars feel to touch (those sorts of contradictions happen a lot in real life) and it makes sense to me that touching them could be grounding if she dissociates as a result of the trauma from the fire. Dissociating can feel like everything is a dream or nothing is real so being able to reassure herself that yes, as horrible as it was the fire was real, could reasonably be her way of coping I also don’t think that hating how people look at her necessarily means she’s ashamed of her scars, I hate how people look at me when I’m using my cane not because I’m ashamed of using it but because I hate that they’re being weird about it. She might just want to avoid it all together which I can definitely relate to It also wouldn’t actually be weird if she is ashamed of her scars sometimes and sometimes not, or ashamed in some ways and others not, for me that varies a lot and it’s a bit weird and unrealistic to expect people to only feel one way about their deformities/disabilities forever, she actually explicitly reprimands herself for not following that stereotype in the text, she says she should only ever feel bad about her scars, but, why? She should bring that question up with a therapist and maybe we can avoid the rest of the book

[@arkkon2740]

A one shot story about Fallon overcoming her trauma would unionically be better than all of these "abuse forgiveness" books and I'd probably read it

[@mst3kharris]

For me, Fallon’s attitude towards her scars is very strange because from what I’ve heard of the book, it seems like her scars exist independent of how she got them. When she thinks about her scars, it doesn’t seem that she ever goes on to think about her injuries or her recovery. She just thinks about her scars and how they make her look. It’s very odd.

[@samkuperman9035]

@@mst3kharris Right, like her having those conflicting feelings about her scars felt very human, I actually appreciate it in theory. I think Krim was trying to say that the way Hoover wrote it was very shallow The abled writing the disabled, put shortly lol-no discussion of nerve damage, lung damage, her experiences in the hospital, her relearning certain basic functions, nothing. It might as well just be a birthmark or cystic acne

[@VeronicaWarlock]

@@samkuperman9035right, to me it sounded more like he was saying, as a writing instrument, if you are not going to actually make a point about having a complex relationship with the scars, the character should have a more straightforward relationship to them. Or at least it should be presented in a way that gives the reader a coherent understanding of what the author is trying to say about that relationship. Not that he was trying to say anything about how actual people relate to their scars, or even how accurate of a portrait it might be, but rather, what purpose is that portrait serving in the narrative? If it’s not bringing up complexity that is picked up by the narrative and characterization, then it’s just introducing confusion by making you expect it to do those things.

[@samkuperman9035]

@@VeronicaWarlock all that “I hate how I’m treated because of my scars, but also I like how they feel when I touch them and how they’re evidence I didn’t make it up in my head*” would be great character work if I didn’t forget she had scars all through the middle of the book LMAO *also she never frames it to herself as a “proof I survived” thing (until Ben brings it up in a really horribly worded way lmao), it’s “proof to me that it happened”, which I find interesting. Not to say that trauma can’t fuck with your memory or anything, but fire leaves like… a lot of evidence that it happened, it’s not like intimate partner abuse where there’s that gaslighting.

[@anica2112]

"Grab my boob, Ben." "God he's so telepathic." I wanted to tear my hair out of my scalp hearing that.

[@bookshelfhoney]

Oof

[@viviantran5961]

I actually laughed so hard, I cried.

[@birdjericho]

It's almost on the "men writing women" level except the author **is** a woman. And her "men" are somehow worse.

[@anica2112]

@@birdjericho that's what I was thinking as well. That makes it so much worse.

[@firefly56embers33]

I was laughing and questioning my life at that point

[@alyssamay9237]

Kyle: "Nah fuck you little bro, get bullied" Most older siblings: "There's someone besides ME picking on my little sibling?! Oh they FUCKED UP!"

[@chelsey8737]

The biggest problem with Colleen Hoover as an author is that she markets her books as romances to teenage girls, particularly the demographic of tiktok which we know skews pretty young, and that demographic often can't understand how toxic the dynamics are. If her books were marketed and discussed as literary fiction describing abusive or unhealthy relationships that would be one thing but because they're discussed and marketed as romances and many times the abusive behaviors go unchallenged by the main character and the side character even more often, you have an entire demographic that genuinely things that those red flags are just character flaws that can be fixed or excused "because no one is perfect." We're just repeating the exact same mistakes that were made in the mid 2010s with twilight's unhealthy stalking and the manipulative love interests tricking mary sue mcs.

[@midnight8341]

Even if they were marketed as describing abusive relarionships, they still would romantisize the abuse that's actively happening in those books, because there's no reframing of it in the end when Fallon should realize how messed up Ben it and get him locked up for life. Her books would need, at least, other endings.

[@chelsey8737]

​@@midnight8341 Yeah that's 100% true too, you're right. I feel like that is undeniable proof that she purposely romanticizes abuse because she likes it or because she likes the paycheck that it gives her or whatever the reason. She purposely markets abusive relationships as romance books and then purposely writes the ending to be some sort of happy ending with a no reasonable explanation or framing of how the abuse is criminal and toxic. I hadn't even factored the ending into it but you're completely right

[@kiriki4558]

The twiling hate trend was more because it was popular with girls than the real contents of it. Much of the media have those tendencies but are only openly hated if girls like it.

[@stephenjenkins7971]

It's not "repeating" the same mistake. That kind of YA novel, or romance novel, never disappeared; and it has a lot of buyers amongst women, not just young women either. And that's not problematic really even problematic, since you know; it's fiction. That being said, 100% fair to call it out as abusive and weird. But getting angsty over it and cry about "muh children" is also pretty bad.

[@weikapo]

Calling collen Hoover a "YA writer" is like calling Zane a "YA writer" do NOT blame Colleen for what a teen chooses to read.

[@sorcerersapprentice]

I've heard others describe Colleen Hoover as "books for people who never had their middle school Wattpad phase", and I think that sums it up nicely. If you grew up going to that site, a lot of this isn't very shocking and generic. But if you had never gone through that phase, then a lot of this seems a lot more shocking and taboo, making those people want to read her books more. Plus, her writing is quite easy to read. If you haven't picked up a book since high school or just aren't a huge reader in general, then they are easy to get through. I wouldn't be surprised if those things are a huge factor in why her books are so popular. But, that doesn't mean that I ever like them, since all of the male protagonists are pieces of shit along with everything else. If I wanted to get my spicy fix, I'll stick with Katee Roberts or shit I find on AO3. If I want to read something in general, I'll read just about anything else.

[@nicoledoubleyou]

You probably don't care, but I thought I'd let you know that this comment came off at very judgements and condescending to people who like these books. Clearly you think the people reading hey books are uneducated boomer types or at least just uneducated, people who haven't picked up a book in years. I haven't picked up a book in years cuz I was too busy raising children and the tone I have to myself I worked cleaning my house. Idk. Again, I am sure you won't care, I just thought I'd try letting you know on cease in wrong and you didn't mean to come across that way

[@ZBBBlL]

@@nicoledoubleyouYour comment has to be satire. Or trolling. Idk

[@jeannecaelum5167]

well that really kind of fits what you are saying. Everyone can enjoy whatever they want to read, but this stuff really hs Wattpad vibes. But yes, Ao3 really got the good stuff and at least you can filter to your likings.

[@sorcerersapprentice]

@@jeannecaelum5167 Pretty much. People can read whatever the hell they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone. But yeah, her writing gives off major middle/high school Wattpad vibes. Since I already been there and done that, I just don't care for her writing anymore. Plus, with Ao3 at least people who write on there are 18+ and know how to craft better stories, and you can filter the selections to your liking.

[@EclipseDoesArt]

Ben: *says he can’t write romance because he doesn’t have experience* Me, who has never been on a date but nonetheless wrote a love story my friend described as “peak romance”: Sounds like a skill issue

[@billfox847]

You should write a gnome romance

[@EclipseDoesArt]

@@billfox847 I’m not opposed to the idea in the slightest but I’m quite intrigued to hear your thought process in making this request You seem like you have interesting brainwaves

[@billfox847]

@@EclipseDoesArt and you could title the book “gnomance” ✍️ 🔥

[@EclipseDoesArt]

@@billfox847 oh you’re a genius

[@owenprior7106]

​@@billfox847But would the couple in the book both be Gnomes, or would it only be one of the two?

[@greed4511]

Ayo can we all just agree that Amber is a real one? Girl called both her boyfriend and best friend out on her shit but still supported her when she was down. What a keeper.

[@mrosskne]

The guys she "called out" did nothing wrong, and she's not an arbiter of morality.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

@@mrosskne he did litterlally everything wrong.

[@sunnyandthechlo]

@@mrosskne Did…nothing…wrong? Did you watch the video?

[@vespernight4236]

​@@mrosskneyou seem to get very pissy in these comments of this video specifically. Feeling called out by the asshole behaviors of the main man bc the title of the video has the word incel in it? Get therapy instead of picking fights online dude it'd do us all a favour

[@meebhasarrived]

I gotta say - inserting random clips of shows as jokes doesn't normally work for me as they tend to just feel lazy and only vaguely relevant, but yours never fail to make me laugh out loud like a crazy person. They're always so incredibly specific and insane and intentional, and I respect that a lot. Kudos for that 👏👏👏

[@DragonGamer0713]

Rest in Peace Leia. You were an excellent kitty that brought joy and laughs to all of us, but to most importantly to Krimson. Hope you're reading horrible books in kitty heaven!

[@andsgradite392]

so i once saw a video thumbnail about various colleen hoover books where this one was listed as "arson?" and i legitimately thought the characters committed arson together, which is infinitely less bad than the actual plot of the book

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

Hashtag relationship goals, amirite?

[@mt4857]

a book about two arsonists falling in love while they are presumably eluding the law, sounds like it could be super entertaining 😂

[@Vampress09]

@@mt4857 would make a great crime-comedy.

[@willowthetree9847]

Omg hi :D

[@MK_ULTRA420]

@@mt4857 Bonus points if she's being romantically pursued by a young firefighter who looks so attractive you wonder why he's not a model. edit: The ending is the two guys fighting each other in a burning building while the girl tries to shoot the firefighter but misses and accidentally shoots her bf, then she goes to prison and the firefighter moves on with his life idk.

[@thousand1183]

I found out about Colleen hoover through a girl I was interested in in college. She loves Colleen hoover books and so I decided to read November 9. I then promptly lost all romantic interest - red flag avoided

[@Necroxion]

"burn my house down, baby!" "Yo what the actual f**k is wrong with you?!"

[@EverythingLvl]

Haha this is funny, oh youre surrounded by a toxic society trying to train you to be a doormat? Red flag! 🤣🤣 I bet you never watch pron

[@MiotaLee]

but the stuff she likes in books doesn't reflect her real life interestsuhh

[@Zotimelord]

I don’t know how Crimson reads some of these lines straight. I have to pause like six times in one sentence because the cringe becomes overwhelming. He truly is a master of word.

[@KrimsonRogue]

I did theatre and used to practice cold reading. I wasn't the best (I still mess up now and then), but it did help.

[@Zotimelord]

@@KrimsonRogue I see so you’re saying you were born into the cringe, molded by it

[@trinaq]

I hate when Hoover's male protagonists are romanticised, when their behaviour gives off SEVERAL alarming red flags. At least Ryle from "It Ends with Us" was purposefully written to be abusive and controlling.

[@not_actually_a_jellybean]

The fact that Ryle is supposed to be abusive and he acts *exactly* like all the other men in her books who are supposed to be the "good, romantic one" is honestly so weird to me. Like, clearly she knows what abuse looks like, but why does she act like all that toxic/abusive behaviour is completely fine in all her other work?

[@miseryhymns]

@@not_actually_a_jellybean my thoughts exactly, i wish i had the cognitive dissonance colleen hoover is capable of because life would be so much easier!

[@naomiskilling1093]

For me its the guy from Verity who is alarmingly up to kill his wife. That is so many red flags that it could constitute a parade in China.

[@CChrissssssy]

That’s all bad and all but tf kind of name is Ryle 😭

[@lazulitrueblue]

@@CChrissssssyThe result of somebody who originally wanted to name their kid Kyle, but thought the name wasn’t “mysterious” enough and replaced the K with an R. Or the result of someone who hates their kid lol. (I’m so sorry to anybody named Ryle.)

[@vitriolproxy]

I have severe scar tissue covering a large portion of my body and, honestly, Fallon’s experience isn’t all that unrealistic. I can relate to not minding your scars in private all that much, but feeling ashamed of them the moment you’re out in public. And touching your scars, partially out of morbid fascination, but mainly because the texture really is kinda pleasant sensory-wise

[@ascorvinus]

Aw man, condolences on the loss of Leia. A pet always finds a home in the owner’s heart, and it’s so painful to lose them. They really are family.

[@palinurus]

Three and a half hours of Krimson ripping into Colleen Hoover is EXACTLY what I needed today. Thank you king

[@UnprofessionalProfessor]

What's the twist?

[@dee_is_tired]

​​@@UnprofessionalProfessorthe twist is that you spend the whole book reading about how horrible of a person Verity is, so horrible that the main character and Verity's husband (who are having an affair) kill her and cover up the murder, and then the MC finds out that everything we've known about Verity was NOT true and she was not a horrible person and her husband knew it the whole time withCindy did a review on it, i highly recommend it

[@UnprofessionalProfessor]

@@dee_is_tired Ghatdayum!

[@noemitamas4066]

There is a bonus chapter that apparently reveales that the dude is a serial killer (?) I really hope she said that Verity was the "real villain" BEFORE she wrote that chapter.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

@@dee_is_tired Holy shit. Saintly leavings. The most blessed and venerable of depositions... ... That would be a killer horror novel, not gonna lie, but I think the fact it's _not_ is the _really_ disturbing part.

[@shellbark]

Krimson, On the subject of cancer and suicide, I have a personal anecdote to offer. In 2013, my father committed suicide. From private text messages to his ex-wife, he claimed he had cancer. He assumed he would not live to see his children grow, graduate, get married, have children of their own, etc. I think he regarded himself as a failure. After texting expressing these predictions, he then trailed gasoline all around my childhood home, set it aflame, then shot himself in his bedroom. I do not know what the future could have held for us if he did decide to live. All that I do know is that he was alone. He did not leave a note for me or my siblings, and I did not get to say goodbye. Was it traumatic? Absolutely. But there is one thing I do know about my father is that… he wasn’t stupid. In that moment, he was irrational. I’m not defending Hoover’s writing. I just think the mother’s response to ovarian cancer wasn’t stupid. I would regard it as irrational. I am deeply sorry for your loss.

[@rissaarei5336]

I always feel like I'm the worst at writing dialogue, but CoHo is single-handedly proving me wrong. What a hero! Also, the best guide on how not to write a guy in romance, ever.

[@Carnationpetal]

I'm always so scared of my dialogue being stupid, then I see books like this and feel a little better.

[@MK_ULTRA420]

@@Carnationpetal I made a joke character named Max Power, an ex-special forces multi-billionaire surgeon who becomes a pirate captain and ends up taking over the world with his immortal vampire big tiddy goth gf. I wrote the story to be as dumb as I possibly could and yet CoHo surpassed its stupidity. I'm talking like, shooting down a fighter jet with a Colt 1911 while parachuting, or the bad guy named "Emperor Evil" declaring war on Finland just to "Finnish" them.

[@marocat4749]

I can se ben working as satiric character, that actually grows as person or is an antivillain,

[@NoOne-jx6hw]

@@MK_ULTRA420 I NEED TO READ THIS!

[@MatthewTheEmperor]

@@MK_ULTRA420 I also want to read this it sounds like it would make a perfect comedy that knows exactly how stupid it is! And this is coming from someone who doesn't even like comedies!

[@rexventura4603]

I’m sorry to hear about Leia, Krimson, she was always a great addition to the channel, she’ll be missed by all of us.

[@ChariotLee]

Aww, rest in peace Leia. I lost my own boy about a year ago. I grew up with him and he was a close companion. I hope you and Ash are doing well.

[@moominwoo2316]

finding out the twist really puts that first meeting into perspective. like, you meet the girl you lit on fire for the first time and the main thing on your mind is her boobs. class act😭

[@4yinyang]

Oh now don't forget his obsession over her panties, which was both weird and creepy even without the context!

[@moominwoo2316]

@@4yinyang oh my god..💀💀💀💀

[@SeymourDisapproves]

It's giving "what if the pervy ~joke character~ in a high school slice of life anime was also a serial killer"

[@LocalHorrorFan]

I can't believe I share a birthday with the title of a book that has the line "I'm paying for dinner, so I get to choose what to stare at while we eat" and have it NOT be a horror thing. 1:02:46

[@lunabearsong2043]

If it makes you feel any better, I share a birthday with Ben. 😂

[@KaraValmeyjar]

I'm so sorry about Leia passing away. Seeing her pop up was a real treat. I hope you and your loved ones are doing well!