What happens when the Starks leave Winterfell?

[@lemoi08]

The sackville starks move in

[@larryroberts3598]

Last time, they stole the silver ware

[@YarPirates-vy7iv]

Hahaha!

[@gleann_cuilinn]

😂

[@Cahors99]

Amazing comment

[@staytuned2L337]

😂🤌🏼💜

[@GregMcNeish]

Something worth remembering when considering how the winter weather gets worse and worse as you head towards Winterfell is that early in the series it's explicitly noted that Winterfell is the HAVEN in cold winters. It was the place where winter had the LEAST impact in all the north. The books speak of families from surrounding areas coming to Winterfell to take quarters, so they could take shelter when their own homes were ravaged by the cold and snow. So, not only is it surreal to have winter seemingly emanating from Winterfell, as this video so wonderfully illustrates. It's a stark juxtaposition from how Winterfell has always been in previous winters. And yes, that pun was very much intended.

[@keithboynton]

Well observed!

[@igorlopes7589]

Not necessarily, the southern coasts of the North don't seem to be colder than Winterfell. As in the Barrowlands and White Habour

[@natesmith2408]

Yes, Winterfell has underground hot springs. Somehow they even pipe the hot water through the walls? Not sure how but I think I remember reading that in canon.

[@OptimusWombat]

Yes, Robert discussed that in the previous video.

[@KiichiIsanu]

@@natesmith2408I believe Robert spoke about that in the previous video in this series

[@carlrood4457]

I don't think the Starks simply returning will fix things, at least not completely. The pact is broken. If it were that easy to fix, then the Starks would have been free to come and go so long as they weren't gone for too long. MArtin isn't one for easy fixes.

[@dromankass8655]

The was a Sci-Fi book called Red Dwarf, about a mining ship lost in deep space 3 million years from Earth. Most it's crew killed in a radiation leak, the last survivors were the ship's Computer, Holly, the last human Dave Lister (technician 3rd class) Arnold Judas Rimmer (a hologram) a service droid called Kryten, and a lifeform that evolved from the ship's cat, known only as 'Cat'. In part of the book, while the four crew members are trapped in a VR game, the ship's computer, Holly, who has basically been running Red Dwarf manages to boost his IQ but at the cost of reducing his life-expectancy down to a runtime of 3.25 minutes. In a desperate attempt to preserve his remaining lifespan he shuts himself down, along with all ship system and functions including the engines. When the crew managed to escape the VR game and awaken back on the ship, they are shocked to find that the vessel is operating on emergency power, Holly is off-line and that the engines are dead. Also there is a rogue planet on a direct collision course with the ship. This is a good example of something not being a easy fix - Holly shut the entire ship down in a second, but working flat out with the service droids, the crew estimate that it will take them ages to perform all the complicated tasks to restart the massive ship's engines. Rimmer: 'So how long will it take us to get the engines up and running?' Kryten: 'About three weeks.' Rimmer: 'And how long until the planet hits us?' Kryten: 'About three weeks.'

[@FrizziExRose]

I agree. I think it's going to take some old magic from Bran to save Winterfell. It's just going to take a while or some great sacrifice to get there.

[@Krullio]

Indeed! If we look at the story of Azorahai a weapon was forged. What if this weapon is the warmth keeping the winter in winterfell? It required great sarcifice to forge that ‘sword’. It is probably very much Bran who learns this. Def not the red priestess. She doesn’t know. Just believes. However. There are many questions. Like. Jon is half Stark. Is that enough? Why is Winterfel centric to winter? The Other’s leader burrried there? Their God or a token? But then what and why the wall so far north if both are part of the defences? Can The Other’s now walk past? And the story should get a lot worse before that, so the Other’s must cross the wall. Just a battle where they are outside while the characters around Winterfel fight and work out the sarcifce and magic is prbably not enough. And how does Dany fit in? I think we all suspect that either she is the one to be sarcified or her dragons or both. But is only a Stark, Jon and/or Dany are involved in the magic then what will that mean for the other houses and their roles? And we still don’t know what the 13th lord commander learns us other than pacts are possible and the Other have some guile to them beyond horror, magic and a potentially huge army. Edit: an let’s not forget that the Starks are called the Kings of Winter. They must be that for a reason. And the sacrifice Bran saw at the heart tree of Winterfel Ages past. It could very well be that some magic bound Winter itself in the Starks too. They are their own guards. They are their own subsued evil and sacrifice their spirits to the dark God. In Some cuthullian horror pact. Hope @IDG covers these aspects.

[@RaynmanPlays]

It could be a Witch King situation. The prophecy stating that, when there are no more Starks in Winterfell, the Long Night will begin. This ends up being twisted into the idea that it is Starks being in Winterfell that prevents the Long Night, but it is merely stating the timeframe.

[@wanderingshade8383]

This Winterfell blizzard is probably not part of the long night. Because I think it actually started in ASOS. At the time of the Red Wedding, there's a big storm going on at the Twins and at Queenscrown (when Bran and Jon cross paths) roughly simultaneously, locations that are roughly equidistant from Winterfell in opposite directions. There's a storm around Winterfell and once winter comes that storm becomes a devastating blizzard. I could be wrong about this though

[@afsdfsadhasfh]

Then why is it centered in Winterfell?

[@victorzarenin9286]

Every time I watch one of these videos I'm more and more impressed by the work GRRM put into crafting this story, and more pissed that he'll never finish it.

[@julianhart2247]

Quiet your mouth! He will, he must.?

[@Alamo-cz5xc]

it's already finished, he's just fucking with us

[@noamias4897]

Any day now!

[@blueblack3591]

Yes he is getting old and doesnt have the capacity or energy he once had

[@tiredlocke]

Heretics. The lot of you.

[@juicegoose1699]

Pretty rare that somebody’s voice is equally as great as their video concept/content

[@ryandagey502]

I really appreciate that the next episode in the series jumped right in to the figurative meat of the material. I was worried that we might have to wait before getting to such an interesting analysis. Always appreciate your insights, thanks for a great channel, your playlists are among my favorites.

[@LusiaEyre]

Although the exact time of the First Long Night is uncertain, the usually assumed 8000 years is a really, really long time for ones enemy to stay away. And however the Long Night was ended the first time, the Others did stay away. So completely that they became myth and legend. Even the Nights Watch stopped believing in the supernatural. Whether by promise or threat they retreated so far north and for so long that it begs the question what made them start moving south again? After the Long Night the most significant incident relating to the Others was The Night King and his corpse bride’s rule of terror. After that, seemingly nothing until Aegon had his dragon dream and made the move to conquer Westeros. And one could argue that that was the beginning of the end for the Starks, since it led us to where we are now. And they get closer, and stronger, and bolder kind of in correlation to the dwindling of the Starks. Like they could sense it. That Winterfell will fall, and Winter will rise again (or something). It almost seems deliberate - setting up Starks for failure, getting them out of Winterfell, playing the long game with a stronger player, that’s there at last to be challenging enough. Or maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy? Aegon conquered Westeros in response to his dream, but by conquering it he also set everything in motion. Winterfell being the epicentre of winter, begs the question if the Winter fell there and was imprisoned? There are some theories of a Winter/Night/Ice Queen trapped in the oldest part of the crypts. The ancient prison guarded by statues and spirits of Kings of Winter. And what are the Others aiming for by moving south? Is their plan to simply take over more lands? Why now and not thousand years ago? The 8th season of the show can hardly be used for proper clues, since it was so rushed and written by not-so-clever people, but for some reason, the Others are aiming for Winterfell. It’s explained as the Night King coming for Bran. I never understood that. So what that Bran is a cloud storage of human memory? If you kill all humans, his importance is a moot point? I don’t know if I am missing the point, or if the Others purposefully piling on Winterfell was a fact of the story and they just opted to justify it in the least exciting and lore-y way?

[@DneilB007]

I very much appreciate this insight. A reunited Ice King/Queen is a great counterpoint to the Jon/Danny pairing of Fire and, if they are a return of the Night King and his corpse bride, a great bit of foreshadowing. Thanks for sharing this; I really like it! 👍

[@TheStrategyGamerPro]

It would also kind of fit George's style of messing with popular fantasy tropes. Where the evil king leading his undead army doesn't actually want to conquer, he just wants his wife back. Thus giving the fairytale story to the 'bad guys'. That's probably not likely, but I do expect some twist where the White Walkers actually aren't as evil as we think.

[@foobar9220]

There is nothing better than a discussion about the heart of winter after a heavy November snowfall last night. Really sets the stage. And it looks like we might even get a dream of spring (probably a false spring) on Sunday ;)

[@Levacque]

We've got a huge snowfall just getting started as I speak. Very well-timed video.

[@robertpruitt5704]

@@foobar9220 part of the reason I fell in love with this series had to do with weather. I picked the first book up and a day later we had an ice storm that knocked out power in my area for a week. It was the perfect setting to read my new favorite book by the fire.

[@iradith]

I never read the name 'Winterfell' as being linked with 'to fall' in a verb sense...I always read it as in 'of terrible evil or ferocity; deadly', like the fell beasts of LOTR. Anyway, so happy you're doing this series, your Crypts of Winterfell videos of the (caped) old days was how I got into you, thank you!

[@alexmckee4683]

Jon Snow is as much a Stark as any of the Starks we know. The tale of Bael the Bard tells us so, which is why it shows up in his chapters. Bael stole away a Stark girl and had a child with her, all the current Starks descend from Bael as much as the Starks. Matrilineal descent works just fine for the Starks. Rhaegar 'stealing' Lyanna is an echo of that story, and thus Jon is as much a Stark as any of the other Starks. Ned says as much: "You might not have my name, but you have my blood".

[@thelateescapist8266]

💯 I came to this comment section to say more or less the same thing. 😉

[@fandommenace9575]

Absolutely correct Jon is a Stark. Every Stark only ever has one Stark parent 🐺

[@ChloeWeston-ny5wj]

@@fandommenace9575except Ned’s generation as Rickard married his cousin lyarra stark

[@dromankass8655]

@@fandommenace9575 Very good point, as the other four living Starks in the book are half Tully and half Stark. I double the magical pact cares about family names, only bloodline, and Jenny Poole is not a Stark.

[@lyarrastark6254]

Thank you, Robert. You notice so many details I missed in the books. Winterfell and the North were always the most intriguing in the books. Great video!

[@darkaxel1991]

George has mentioned alot about the "Mereenese Knot" problem he had when writing about the arrival of a bunch of characters to Mereen and the timing. I suspect he's having a similar problem with bringing characters back to Winterfell.

[@pittlebelge]

I got nothing to support this really, but i like to think that it's a prophetic warning warped by time. Something along the lines of "The long night will start when there are no Starks in Winterfell" and that prophecy got twisted by the millennia to the simple injunction.

[@Scott-po6go]

Except white walkers were seen before any Starks left Winterfell.

[@lancekyser14]

Excellent theory Robert! I never thought about or realized how there’s no crazy storm in the north but Winterfell is literally besieged with a storm.

[@markfisher2683]

It would seem that the power of Winterfell is protecting itself from outsiders until a Stark returns….

[@Levacque]

Possibly! Maybe that's why the crypts are completely frozen shut.

[@michal22011]

yes and ghost from winterfell is another example of castle protecting itself

[@mryoungandbrave1]

Or the magic of the Kings of Winter is trying desperately to protect the True Winterfell, The Crypts.

[@samtagg8754]

I've read the books several times and never even noticed the disparity between the weather at Winterfell and every where else!

[@robertpruitt5704]

@@samtagg8754 same

[@PWazza83w]

Hot Springs in Winterfell. Hot Pie down in the riverlands. Hot Pie is a secret stark, son of Neds older brother, and will be the first to Winterfell as cook.

[@Grayto]

I don't know if this relevant but heavy snows only really happen when the temperature near the ground is relatively WARMER compared to the atmospheric air but still below or near 0º C. Very cold and dry areas can receive very little snow. The heavy snow around Winterfell may occur BECAUSE it is warmer, which make sense with the "hot springs there. However, this doesn't line up with previous years reporting Winterfell as a kind of haven against bad winter conditions. Nonetheless, it's interesting to note that the true "hear of winter" wouldn't have much snow.

[@jordymontes95]

Well without the Starks who will remind everyone that "Winter is Coming" every autumn?

[@abelbabel8484]

Autumn.

[@YarPirates-vy7iv]

​@abelbabel8484 I thought Autumn Stark was carried off by wildlings. Did she escape?!

[@ianweir3608]

How will the people know? What if they get caught off-guard?

[@williammathias3253]

The Weather Channel? 😂

[@StartTheJoust]

Finnish people. They always know. And Canadians.

[@UndergroundMadeon]

My theory is that Winterfell is a natural source of powerful ice magic. Some kind of magic ritual was performed by Bran the Builder beneath Winterfell, blood magic that utilized his own blood. This ritual redirected the ice of Winterfell northwards, which was utilized to create the wall. In order to maintain the wall, the magic of Winterfell needs to be perpetually redirected north through this same ritual, hence why there always needs to be stark blood in Winterfell. Someone of Bran's bloodline must stay near the ritual site/idol beneath Winterfell, else the spell fails. If the starks leave, the ritual fails, magic stops being redirected to the wall and returns to Winterfell. That's why Winterfell is being covered in snow, and this will ultimately lead to the wall breaking/collapsing.

[@natesmith2408]

Pretty sure in the books the reason it's warmer in Winterfell is because of under ground hot springs. Like 80% sure it says something about piping the hot water through the walls of the castle to keep it warm.

[@felixfruhauf4940]

@@natesmith2408that's the point though. Are they actual natural hot springs or are they there unnaturally because redirecting the cold magic away from winterfell by Bran created an unbalance and it was interpreted in the Millenia after him as "natural hot springs"?

[@saleembarmania5295]

these vids will really help George with ideas to finish the books.

[@viperswhip]

I think the problem with these channels as they have put far more thought into the books than George did, and he's feeling pressured to live up to all this shit we've been watching. Watch Lightbringer haha, there is no way George thought of all that symbolism.

[@Anduril729]

I've been loving the GoT and LotR content lately, perfect timing on this one

[@louisetreadway7996]

I always thought that the name Winterfell meant that winter was "fell" as in deadly, and also that winter would "fall" on the north especially.

[@Levacque]

It actually refers to high hills - "fell" is a middle English word from the Old Norse "fjall," which means mountain and can still be found in Scandinavian languages. So Winterfell is "the Hill of the Kings of Winter." It fits perfectly with Bran's earliest descriptions of the castle being built around the hills.

[@RyenPacino]

Another interpretation is that there’s speculation it’s the location where the first long night was ended, where the forces of winter…fell. Potentially by a pact made between the Starks and the Others.

[@matthewparker9276]

I've always thought of it in the sense of "a fell place."

[@SPIKESPIEGEL1969]

Thank you for your videos. They are a comfort to me during a difficult time in my life. Its such a joy seeing that you have posted a new video. Keep 'em comin' yo!

[@HHisa]

Chin up Cowboy

[@SPIKESPIEGEL1969]

@@HHisadanka friend

[@jacobbrown5962]

10:32 The wording can be interpreted as the Heart of Winter and North of the Wall are 2 diff things Bran looks at, meaning the Heart of Winter doesn't have to be North of the Wall specifcally speaking.

[@SelphieTheNutter]

Another amazing video, thank you Robert. One video series i would love to see you make is a actual book reading series. Where you read the game of thrones books to your fans. One chapter, per video. You have the perfect voice for a audio book narrator.

[@omarbey3868]

Thank you for the great video. I wonder how all of this ties into what Bran saw when he was inside the body of Summer. In the last chapter of "A Clash of Kings" (book2) page 721, Bran is down in the crypts. Summer is outside of the castle watching it burn. Bran then sees "a Serpent with wings, belching fire" coming up from under Winterfell and it burns everything then disappears. Because he is in Summer, he thinks like a wolf and does not think much of it other than bearing his teeth. Later, as they emerge from the crypts he wonders if anyone heard them break out of the crypts and Osha says we made enough noise to wake a Dragon. Anyway, food for thought.

[@pinstripesuitandheels]

Isn't there an army of the dead buried beneath Winterfell? All those generations of Stark warriors laid to rest in that cavernous crypt where non Starks feel a foreboding presence? My guess is they are a sort of reverse white walker army that only a Stark can lead.

[@hdmb9180]

Ahhh resurrected wight Jon leading an army of undead ancient Stark kings and lords in the Long Night wouid go so so hard man

[@Patches2212]

​@hdmb9180 Jon also feels like he is not meant to be in the crypt though, similar to King Robert, so why would it be him leading the armies then?

[@mryoungandbrave1]

@Patches2212 Things may be different after he's reborn. If he really is Targaryen, I could see the Crypt welcoming him home, as he was a 'Stark' with Dragon's blood when he died, and he could be reborn a Targaryen with a Stark's heart, and have the King's of Winter follow him. Or they follow Sansa as his Queen of Winter.

[@festuskamoni5884]

Theon the hungry wolf wanting to massacre andals again

[@kickflippro3]

13:57 underground is a constant temperature in real life, so no magic needed for that

[@relentlesslyquirky2904]

A constant 60-70 though. That would feel balmy coming from a winter snowstorm. The fact that there is a chill there seems magical.

[@kickflippro3]

@ sorry I live in the desert 60 is uncomfortably cold to me

[@urikorsikov843]

Arthur: "What does it mean to be king?" Merlin: "You will be the land and the land will be you. If you fail, the land will perish. As you thrive, the land will blossom." -------- Arthur: "Have you found the secret that I have lost?" Percival: "You and the land are one. Drink from the chalice and you will be reborn and the land with you." From the movie, Excalibur -------- Merlin: "...and while the King lies there under the stone the Kingdom shall not fall. For as long and longer than it has stood before, the Dance shall stand again, with the light striking it from the living heaven. And I shall bring back the great stone to lay upon the grave-place, and this shall be the heart of Britain, and from this time on all the kings shall be one King and all the gods one God. And you shall live again in Britain, and forever, for we will make between us a King whose name will stand as long as the Dance stands, and who will be more than a symbol; he will be a shield and a living sword." From the novel, The Crystal Cave

[@MURPH10US]

I always remember thinking wow, this storm seems really crazy when I dirst read this. Now it makes sense.

[@heathermason9311]

15:20 He most definitely is a Stark, his mother was a Stark.

[@georgeagathangelou5303]

Ned's body eventually returning to winterfell at last could be very symbolically important

[@PainfullySubjective]

these videos are always a pleasure. thank you, in deep geek!

[@bunnbonn0]

I get so happy every time I see you post

[@mryoungandbrave1]

I think it may be possible that Winterfell is where the first 'King of Winter' fell, and the Weirwood Tree grew over his grave.

[@izuna77]

So now I'm curious, and this is a question for the people who know the records of Westeros' history really well, what is the historical correlation of Starks in Winterfell to length of summers? Because the only thing we know about the logic of the seasons is that winter is as long as the summer that proceeded it, but that the length of those summers seems totally random. Off the top of my head: a harsh winter falls when Bran and Rickon leave and there are no Starks. In the Long Summer that proceeded it there are five Starks born, so there are an average of six Starks at any given time plus one half&half toasty Stark (I'm counting Jon, half his blood is Lyanna's and blood is what the trees care about). The last winter before that happens during Robert's Rebellion with one Stark taken to Dorne, two killed in the South (bones kept there throughout), one leaves to fight leaving only one in Winterfell. Also we get that false spring during the Tourney at Harrenhall. Possibly connected to Lord Stark was kind trying to make connections (which involves marriage packs) by sending his children, which would mean more Stark babies, but it ended up being the catalyst for the Rebellion (less Starks). I'd be curious to know if this pattern continues.

[@giggityguy]

I hope that Martin does something with Rickon. He's been such a non-character for the entire series, both in the books and the show

[@Hey_Canadian]

Kid was 3 at the beginning of the book series. You want a detailed character arc of his potty training?

[@giggityguy]

@@Hey_Canadian I guess it's not so much that I want him to be a POV character or anything, I just want him to be relevant at all. He may be the only Stark in the North at the start of WoW, that's significant

[@michaeltalpas]

Winter Is Coming. Man, I get chills every time. I remember the first time I read that line; I knew it didn't simply mean weather.

[@caseywatts5513]

Truly brilliant writing from GRRM, I didn't even think about where the winter storm was originating from but did find it strange while reading Dance that the Wall seemed like a better place to be than Winterfell and even Brans movements of north seemed rather easy in comparison to Stannis. I do believe that Jon's revival and return to Winterfell wouldn't quell this storm, especially considering he thinks of the crypts often and he feels as if they are rejecting him. I think Winterfell will reject him as it rejects Jeyne Poole

[@nickbrough8335]

Even if Arya, Sansa or Bran return, they will be the last of the Starks surely ? Jon is a Targaryen by father and who ever marries either of the daughters will not be a Stark either. Reckon is the future of the Stark family line.

[@InterestedAmerican]

I just hope we get another book. As it stands, it appears the entirety of this story has been placed on hold, with no chance of there ever being another book released. At least that's how it looks now, but we all know, looks can be deceiving. I have hope GRRM will complete the story, but as years pass, and his age catches up with him, will he have the time or the will to complete it? Only time will tell.

[@jfarrar19]

Which is more powerful, winterfells origin magic, or Melissandres I don't think that will be how it goes. There was a compact made, that a Stark must stay in Winterfell. That compact was broken, and a new one must be made. Melisandre will "broker" it, likely sacrificing a Stark for it. Maybe Rickon.

[@gleann_cuilinn]

hi robert thank you so much for the video. i am watching it while i bake pumpkin pie. the cold winds are rising but we are not dead and hope remains.

[@AussieActionFigures]

Great video. Keep them coming please.

[@TheStoneTargaryen]

Quinn the Gmmmm theorized rickon might already be in the picture; just without our knowledge yet. Because Davos went to get him very early in Dance and stopped having chapter. So maybe a stark will be back soon, but we shall see

[@kylechristianverdida7635]

The 13th Lord Commander who eventually became The Night's King is definitely a Stark.

[@cemberendsen4297]

Very interesting analyses. Many details I missed while reading!

[@thelateescapist8266]

Ghost is all the proof anyone should need that Jon is a Stark of Winterfell. The old gods sent 6 direwolves to Ned Stark's children not 5. And they sent Jon the one most obviously marked for their purposes. Jon even looks more like a Stark than his "trueborn" siblings save for Arya. Jon may be half Targaryen, which may allow him to ride a dragon, or even make a claim for the iron throne, but he was raised a Stark of Winterfell. And like only the truest Starks of Winterfell he understands that his first duty is to prepare the realms of men for the dark winds of winter.

[@charlesmcmanus4229]

I want to see the Others breach Winterfell, and have the weather suddenly clear-up. The Others weren’t invading, they were just trying to go home.

[@misterkami2]

Next I want to see the Night King put on a bright red outfit and he commands the white walkers to start making toys for all the children in the seven kingdoms so that he can distribute them through the chimneys while riding his dragon.. ..Once more his jolly laughter of "Ho ho ho" was heard throughout the land and all the children, rich and poor rejoyced, for they knew that Winter would come for their house tonight

[@hamodenashwan9731]

I have a question that I haven't known the answer to since I read the novel. Who are the two people that Arya heard talking about the death of the King's Hand in the Red Keep catacombs after she was chasing cats in the first book?

[@bighog1363]

I think it’s meant to be Varys and Illyrio Mopatis :)

[@nl-oc9ew]

Perhaps benjen? He's not confirmed dead in the books, nor is he likely Coldhands.

[@Capodraste]

I like to think of him as the murderer/ghost currently in Winterfell. Make more sense for me than a ironborn or wildling infiltrate.

[@facundomedina9762]

It's also worth considering how this seemingly long summer ended by the end of a game of thrones, when Ned died and there were only 2 Starks left in Winterfell. And after Bran and Rickon left, Winter arrived. For such a long summer, it would seem a relatively short autumn

[@MrAwesomeGuitarMan]

I think that the hot spring waters running through the walls have stopped moving as well and have frozen up, otherwise the snow wouldn't be able to pile up inside the castle like that without melting. Maybe not having a Stark in Winterfell have magically put the castle in a type of hibernation.

[@hurkajoker]

I can't wait for you to touch on the Winterfell dragon theories as a part of this series. I'm honestly surprised you haven't gotten into it yet.

[@MissKriekentaart]

I am so intrigued by this series 👀🌨️ I always reading the comments on IDG videos for even more theories!

[@ernaminten4227]

Fascinating to see Winterfell as the heart of Winter. Some of the statues in the crypt are described as if they are Others (a Bran chapter, where Shaggydog attacks the maester), could they radiate the cold? As a side note, could the Karstarks (genetically speaking) take over the Starks role? And what are your thoughts on the original sword Ice (first Catlyn chapter in GOT)?

[@WhoIsCalli]

This was really fab. Thanks Robert

[@TripleTSingt]

Jon is still a Stark on his Mothers side, half blood of the dragon and half the blood of the first men.

[@carlrood4457]

Maybe, maybe not. Note how "Kingsblood" seems to be about declaring yourself and/or being recognized as such rather than anything genetic. If Lyanna married, she became a Targaryen. Would the magic still consider her a Stark.

[@jfig3458]

As much as i agree, the only problem is that it clearly states otherwise in the books. Jon's Crypt dreams clearly point to him that Winterfell doesn't consider him a Stark

[@glamourweaver]

If matrilineal heritage counted every noble in the North would be a Stark. This is the magic of a patrilineal and patriarchal society and this magic at least seems to acknowledge those concepts. If Winterfell acknowledges Jon as a Stark it will be because Robb named him one and his heir, not because of Lyanna’s blood.

[@andrewness]

After three thousand years, everyone within a hundred miles of Winterfell probably has Stark ancestry. It seems to be the name that matters.

[@misterkami2]

@@glamourweaver I wonder what would happen if the series plot would play out and Bran is in King's Landing, while Sansa holds the north

[@draw4kicks]

Man you just keep getting better and better! This is by far the most interesting video on ASOIAF you’ve made thus far. This topic is something I’ve thought about before, but the level of research really is impressive. Do you think the Severity of Winterfell’s winter has something to do with a breaking of a pact between the Others and the First Men/ COTF?

[@spaceyote7174]

Watching this video on the same day as the first snowstorm of the year really enhanced the creepy vibe

[@Cornetto616]

isn't the "secret Targaryen" also a Stark? does only paternal lineage count?

[@LusiaEyre]

I think that's how it worked for most of history; a child belongs to their father's family. Of course, with blood magic this is funny, because why family names matter if it's the blood that's important? Jon and all his half-sibilings/cousins have similar mix of blood - one Stark born parent and one southron parent (and this comparison would work even if Jon was Ned's son) and yet, only Jon feels unwelcome in the crypts. The Tully blood doesn't seem to offend the ghostly ancestors. So it's either Targ blood in particular that offends them, or they really do recognise paternal lineage only (or maybe they just don't like bastards).

[@zoemacpherson2701]

That and how many other descendants from the main Stark Lords are disregarded by the blood magic. Like children from daughters married off, children of those who aren't the heir or even other Stark bastards. Maybe it's feeling like belonging with the family and the blood is important. Both Jon and Theon constantly felt not truly one of the Starks.

[@antalonampreel861]

@@zoemacpherson2701 That implies that if Jon ultimately has to choose, as Elrond chose to be Elf while his brother Elros chose to be human, then perhaps Jon choosing to be a Stark over a Targaryen is part of how everything is fixed?

[@anitareasontobelieve378]

Thanks for these thoughtful posts and for all the work that goes into it. Have you thought about reading for Audio books of all brands?? Your voice is soothing in a wholesome way. I'm a fan!

[@bhagavatdas]

This is going to be a nice series, it's giving nerdy details 😊😊😊

[@ezrafriesner8370]

Here in less then an hour, I think that’s a new personal record

[@AarickBox]

We assume that part of the Weirwood trees magic involves blood and the Crypts are at least partially under the Godswood. Are the Weirwood trees using the Starks that are buried in the crypts as "fuel". Maybe the fact that the last Starks to be buried there all died in the South took some power away from them. Also a thought I had. I don't have the book on me but I know we go into the crypts a few times. Is it ever mentioned how close to the entrance Rickard, Brandon and Lyanna are. Since the builder dug the crypts and started putting bodies in at the farthest point is it a sort of countdown the closer they get the entrance. A countdown to what I don't know, maybe the fight with the Others.

[@jgr7487]

Even if it's round, I do believe that the oldest tower is the oldest external structure of Winterfell. Storm's End is round & smooth, yet it's also belived to having been built by Bran the Builder.

[@CloaknDagger]

Great video, had never heard of this theory before and now I'm convinced. Many thanks!!

[@JustaMomThatSims]

Im really enjoying this series. Thank you.

[@DneilB007]

I was very much thinking about the catacombs of Winterfell towards the end of the TV series. I was convinced that the seeds had been planted that the Walkers/Winter King (tv version) would resurrect the dead in the attack on Winterfell, and would raise the dead Starks in the catacombs-who would then defend Winterfell against the Winter King’s wraith army. Obviously, that was not in the scripts for the series; but I remain hopeful that it might be in the novels to come.

[@Forsworcen]

The fact that the Wall was made of ice and stone always struck me as an odd thematic choice for a supposed defense against the Others. We know, based off what we’ve seen so far, that the Others seem to have some kind of control over ice and snow and all of the opposing forces used against them and their undead forces are in some way linked to fire so having the primary defense be shaped with ice always seemed odd to me. Perhaps the key is Winterfell itself, the magics of Winterfell being one of the lynchpins for whatever magic the Wall has against the Others and having a Stark in Winterfell is a part of it. We know that blood magic is the most powerful, and the only one that continues to work after dragons have died, so perhaps Stark blood is literally incorporated into the spell itself, just the living blood rather than dead. Reminds me a bit of the city sized magic circle in the Sword of Truth series tbh…

[@rajatmw1999]

My god! you create such great content. Please keep it up, I discovered this channel today only, and I am immersed in this video. Wow

[@72jakeryan]

The werewood tree and the crypts buried under it. The werewood feeds on the stark bodies/essence just like in Elden ring with erdtree burial and the erdtree

[@princesargon2198]

What if the only way to “revive” Winterfell is to preform another sacrifice in the gods woods like in the past by (possibly) Bran the Builder. The only person who would possibly know how to do this would be Bran with his powers to look into the past, ending with him choosing to sacrifice himself like (possibly) Bran The builder did re-establishing the pact . But that would still raise the question of what the pact is for? Why was a pact necessary, it feels like the catacombs may hold a deeper secret almost as if something was meant to be kept in. Also we know that the Starks use the catacombs to hide/keep important items not just family corpses (like the posible dragon eggs the Targeryians may or may not have given to the Starks)

[@theguyfromsaturn]

Just saying, you should not expect more snow north of Winterfell. It's a mistake that GRR Martin makes throughout the books too.... southern air is humid, cold air is fairly dry. Cold days will not be snowy in the north. Snow will be associated with warmer winter days, as it does in all cold countries. Snow is only tied to cold in warmer climates, where heat and humidity are common, and snow only comes when the cold wind comes south. Northern latitudes will have snow when the warmer (and humid) souther air comes north. So, you should never expect the snowfalls to be greater north of the wall than in Winterfell.

[@24playman58]

i think that even if a stark returns to winterfell it will not return to normal or at least it will be very different, cause like bran said "it's not dead, just broken", but bran won't be able to walk ever again, + i do bealive that if jon returns to winterfell it wold help, he doesn't have the last name but he does have the blood, as far as i can tell the last name are more or less a easy guide to know who is who, but not an actual guide on who has the most power, house of the dragon showed peasents being able to ride dragons, all of them with out last names

[@SSquirrel1976]

If generations are roughly every 20 years, you are looking at 400 Stark families. Given how there were usually larger families in medieval times to make sure enough kids lived to adulthood, assume an average of 4 kids per generation. So 6 family memebrs per generation. There are at LEAST 2400 Stark corrpses buried in the crypts, so if return as undead defenders, that's a whole lot of undead.

[@michal22011]

but only stark lords were buried in the crypts. Lyanna is an exception because Ned wanted to bury her there

[@SSquirrel1976]

@ ​​⁠no all Starks were buried there, only the lords had statues made. Lyanna having a statue made of her broke that tradition. It’s said pretty directly in the video

[@robertpruitt5704]

I keep forgetting that you cannot take anything for granted in this series. Even subtle descriptions of the weather are filled with hidden meanings.

[@michaelbayer5094]

After watching and listening to Robert's videos I realize 2 things: 1. Robert read the books much more closely than I did. That's why these vids are fantastic. He caught all the nuances and little details. 2. GRRM seems to put great effort and meaning into writing all those little details. Alas, I've been ruined by the facile immediacy of TV and movies. At least these vids help me catch up on all that I missed.

[@robertpruitt5704]

@ I worry that GRRM has written something so complex and layered with nuance that he won’t be able to complete it, thus it has taken thirteen years and counting for the latest installment.

[@silasallner1891]

7:52 Thanks for mentioning the miles-meter conversion 😊

[@alexwhitney6372]

I think the long night was likely ended with a pact of peace between the Starks and the others, and that the Starks remaining in Winterfell was one of the terms of that pact. The others wanted to know that the people they made the pact with would remain in power in the North to uphold their side of the agreement.

[@timffkl]

I wonder if this is an additional part of the Three Eyed Ravens plan with Bran, of guiding and keeping Bran away from Winterfell.

[@garmisra7841]

Probably what he'll do is arrange it so that a Stark gets back into Winterfell but Mel gets no news of it at the wall - and then she sacrifices Shireen anyway, causing more conflict within Stannis, while news of a Stark in Winterfell rallies the hill tribes with the wildlings and remaining Northerners. I hope it's Jon that gets back there first.

[@Svensk7119]

Great video, as always, Robert, and I only have one problem with it, the same problem that I have with everyone who talks about Jon: You assume he is dead! True, things look very bleak as his viewpoint fades out, but we are dealing with the (probable) main character of the whole dang story, AND there is a range of magicks involved! Melissandre may not be at his side, but I think she is still at Castle Black. If the LoL can revive a dead man, than surely he can heal the guy who is actually (I think) Azor Ahai, even on a death bed. Yet everyone talks as if Jon is surely, certainly dead! Well, so was Simo Hayha, and so was Raul "Roy" (Tango Mike-Mike) Benavidez--Twice! Did I miss a press release where GRRM confirmed that Jon was toast, or perhaps iced? Or is everyone just going off of what the show did at the same point?

[@saraleesky1479]

Excellent commentary!

[@jf_kein_k8590]

Crazy (and very likely wrong) idea, the place where Winterfell was built upon was the original heart of winter. The Others were driven away and the Stark blood was used to seal most of the Hearts power. That's why are the Others coming south, maybe they have smth like greenseers as well and foresaw that the seal will be broken soon. So they amassed their army and are marching south to get their home back.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

"Could it be Jon? He's dead now..." "I'm not dead yet." "Quite dead." "I got better."

[@ryanjohnson3615]

So Winterfell is built on a hot spring if I recall. The hot water is piped around the floors and walls keeping it warm? Does the hot spring turn cold or quit flowing?

[@MariaVosa]

This is why I'll never give up hope on another book from GRRM in the series, no matter how much people mock me for being Florian the Fool. As much as I loved the early seasons of the TV series, it could never hope to capture and do justice to the deep seeds planted by Martin. I need to know how this plays out. If he never finishes the books, I at least hope he leaves behind enough notes that broad outlines can be sketched - as Christopher Tolkien did for his father's literary legacy.

[@JWlittleredd]

Aren't the Karstarks in Winterfell? Are they too far removed from the main Stark line to count?

[@persun100]

Ever since i caught up and started theorythinking, the wall and winterell feel connected, as is I believe their (or a specfici castle lkke the nightfort) purposes were swapped. The wall might have been built originally at winterfell, or another wall like mechanism for winter was created. Perhaps the nightfort story is actually about winterfell? And the starks liberated it or returned to wintefell to stop the long night

[@ZeroNumerous]

Jon is a Stark. He might not be legally a Stark, but by blood he is Wolf and Dragon blended together. Blood matters far more than legality to magic, as always. That means if a Stark returning then Jon returning would be sufficient.

[@robertreid7875]

Could the line “always be a stark in winterfell’ come from Current Bran being the 3 eyed raven and traveling back in time to create the original “bran the builder” and using that line to ensure time plays out the same for his future.

[@macrosense]

There must be thousands of Starks if they have been breeding for 8000 years

[@Tomwithnonumbers]

On that timescale every person in Westeros would be descended from a Stark

[@alexmckee4683]

@@Tomwithnonumbers Yep, even the Targaryens have First Men ancestry from House Blackwood.

[@mtverv]

15:13 I personally subscribe to the N+A=J Theory that says Jon’s Parents are Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne but until this is confirmed we will have to listen to a lot of RLJ stuff especially because the show seems to have combined the characters of Jon and Aegon VI into a single character. Hopefully GRRM broke down and just shows Jon’s Parents in Winds so we can finally be done with this…

[@RobinDSaunders]

There may be no Stark in Winterfell-above-ground, but in the crypts are the same Starks who have always been there. Below ground, the temperature remains constant, from the insulation of the ground above it. The earth preserves, and the North remembers. That is the real haven of Winterfell, and it is why winter will fall - end - there, as perhaps it did during the original Long Night.

[@chrisbovington9607]

I think there is an alternative view. The origin of the expression might not have been referring to living Starks at all.

[@johnnye87]

Early on I thought you were leading up to a point that you didn't end up making, so I'm curious to see what people think of it: If the significance of "Starks in Winterfell" is really the lords "sitting their thrones" in the crypts, rather than the people living above ground, then there's another notable absence that occurs around the same time as Bran and Rickon physically abandoning the castle. Ned died as ruling lord and his body has pointedly not been interred in the crypt, long after it rightfully ought to have been. Robb likewise hasn't been interred. What if that failure breached some condition of a pact with the Others, and Barbrey Dustin's petty grudge-holding has doomed mankind?

[@johnnye87]

(Some points against this: [1] the timing isn't as neat as Bran leaving the castle and immediately looking back and thinking it looks dead, and [2] if the Starks in Winterfell who are important are the dead ones, then there demonstrably still ARE Starks in Winterfell; the line isn't "all Starks must be in Winterfell".)

[@hectech]

What if a Stark in Winterfell extends the godswood's magic to the whole realm. What if the Others and their cold magic won't/can't actually pass through Winterfell due to said extended magic.

[@CrudelIson]

Strong Indication I think, that when the Others reach Winterfell, they may "awaken" the dead Starks burried in the crypts but they will not becomes Others but fight them.