Indivision MK3 Upscaler/Deinterlacer for the Amiga - Review and Tutorial

[@LoveDoctorNL]

Finally a video that explains what they’re trying to accomplish with that config tool. It just made me feel I had my head screwed on backwards I just couldn’t figure it out. Many thanks!

[@10MARC]

I agree that is totally confusing. Even following the released instructions barely helps. It was trial and error to really figure it out.

[@LoveDoctorNL]

@@10MARC Hi again, listen I had issues saving my config to the boards flash using the config tool too, and then I thought hey…. That rescue disk uses the provide “flashtool”. So I save my config to a file and then I opened the shell and typed: flashtool SAVECONFIG DH0:Prefs/IndivisionAGAmk3.conf And !! Saved ! Please go ahead and try! 😊

[@LoveDoctorNL]

@@10MARC False alarm ☹️ even though it doesn’t SAY it failed, when I power down fully (hard powerbrick reset) screens are wrong again.

[@HoldandModify]

Doug, I’m shocked your HDMI worked. I never have gotten mine to display anything. Which further lends evidence that it’s a timing issue for those of us having issues. VGA is more forgiving for variances. HDMI being digital simply vanishes when out of spec. I love my MkIII. I thought my video made that clear. I did show my issues and work arounds and I still recommended the device. Yet when I posted my issues in the support forums, I got lit on fire. I don’t get it. We’re all trying to help Amiga and all of us fans. Sad. Thanks for this video. Hopefully it helps others. As for “Jens Kick” it sounds a lot like the fix Chris and I discovered troubleshooting this card. Basically kicking the card “awake” using their flashtool at startup. Whatever. Glad it’s out there. Also, thank you for the mention and links for my vids in your description. Always appreciated.

[@10MARC]

I don't suppose you got any credit on the forums for figuring out how to "kick" the MK3 awake. It seems more productive to have thanked you for that instead of get snarky. The HDMI is 100% more finicky than the VGA I am sure. I should probably try the VGA... But I need the HDMI for ease of video capture.

[@HoldandModify]

@@10MARC nah, in fact when I posted the fix, all I got was fussy replies. Mostly Because I wasn’t willing to tear my a1200 apart and test every part of it. Also, your issue with saving firmware changes is another issue I also have.

[@retrotechtive]

"No, you can't have my RTG card!" It felt like you were directly talking to me 😁 Nice video as usual, especially great how you illustrate the issues clearly but still show off the strengths of the board at the same time. Honest, balanced review :)

[@10MARC]

I was. I saw you peeking thru my window drooling over my Cybergraphix card. Now GET OFF MY LAWN! 🤣😉

[@mark12358]

What a deep tour into MK3 configs and quirky things. Really thought a lot about buying one, we'll see how Indivision will manage this little quirks. Cheers, M

[@10MARC]

I find it is still worth it, quirks and all. Now that I can work around them, I enjoy the card. Not so much when I powered down and was greeted by a black screen at first!

[@mark12358]

@@10MARC 😁😅

[@brettjns]

I think this great product is still maturing and getting out the kinks. Exciting!

[@10MARC]

You have a point about getting the kinks out... But the indivision MK line is now almost 14 years old. One would figure most of the kinks would be out by now. It's a lovely piece of hardware and I have no regrets getting it

[@AllensTrains]

I have got 3 Amigas - An A500, a A600 and a A1200. None of them are in use because all their power supplies have died. With no Amiga action, I have been watching your videos for amusement. The problem of connecting these third party upgrades is that it is very easy to upset your Amiga. I think additional circuit boards exceed the original power supply specification and that's what causes the errors. Thanks for uploading.

[@10MARC]

The original A500 power supply was a bit more robust than the A1200 supply and that has always worked great on my overloaded A1200. Blizzard 68040/40 MHz with 64 MB RAM, RTC, MK3 and a few other goodies. I have purchased replacement power supplies from vendors that don't have the juice to run my A1200, but the ones I buy from RetroPassion seem to handle them fine.

[@AllensTrains]

@@10MARCThe PSU from RetroPassion is the same as I have ordered from eBay, so I am relieved to hear this! I gave my old A500 to a re-capping man to get rid of it. Corroded to science-fiction proportions by the battery-backed clock. I got a replacement A500, but the PSU on that has packed up. I am keeping the A500 on WB1.3 because the 5.25 Floppy Drive and the RocTec external 3.5" works with it. I got a re-capped A600, and thought I was lucky, but then the PSU on that packed up as well. My A1200 has not been re-capped, but it works okay and the board shows no signs of leakage. But I am keeping an eye on it! Thanks for making all these videos.

[@boydpukalo8980]

Great video. I was looking to order a MKIII for my ACILL 4000 board, and your review was perfect and matches my use case. Thanks for posting this. I will order the Indivision. I have always had a good experience ordering from Jens the 3 or 4 times I have placed orders.

[@10MARC]

I really like the video output from mine. I do use a Picasso II card in my A4000, but the Indivision looks just as good!

[@brettjns]

Great video. I will have to come back to it again after I get my AGA machines recapped and then buy the MK3. My 4000 has a PIV so not in a hurry, but I think I am gonna put the MK3 in my 1200 first. Man, imagine if Commodore would have offered this in 1992!

[@10MARC]

I remember a few Flicker Fixers and Deinterlacers for the Amiga 2000 back in the day. Expensive little guys, but oh my what a beautiful display! Far too few people took advantage of the ECS and AGA Multiscan and DblNTSC modes, honestly. They were Rock Solid on workbench with a VGA monitor and required only an RGB to VGA adapter for about $25.

[@brettjns]

@@10MARC Yeah the problem was games though. I had a 1942 which was perfect but in my infinite wisdom I sold it 25 years ago. But we all have those stories and I hear the 1942s are not holding up with age anyway. I also owned a 1960 with an A3000. Shouldn't have sold that beautiful combination either. But I wanted AGA so compromises had to be made with my finances at the time. Oh well.

[@10MARC]

@@brettjns I own a 1942 and a 1960 and neither works anymore. One day I will be brave enough to open the up and see if they are fixable

[@LeftoverBeefcake]

Glad I waited to install my MK3 on the A1200... thank you Doug, this is vital information! :D p.s. count me in for a video on setting up modes from scratch

[@10MARC]

It makes it a whole new machine, TBH. The MK2 in my A1200 is why all of my ECS Amiga's have RGB2HDMI cards! I cannot deal with the flicker with these old eyes, and I probably spend 95% of my Amiga Time in Hi Res modes

[@hessex1899]

I have one for my (PAL) A1200 and I am quite happy with it. I had to do some fiddling, of course, and I still can't get all of the output modes to both look good and work with my ElGato (yet), but I am very pleased with it. Thanks for the great video. It definitely helped me. It would be very very cool if you did a whole video for mode creation.

[@10MARC]

I think a nice 10 minute video on mode creation from start to finish would be quite helpful. I will do it!

[@AmigaFanatic1980]

@@10MARC If you can Doug that would be great! I have had trouble setting it up with anything other than normal Highres mode

[@10MARC]

@@AmigaFanatic1980 you can hit me up online and I would be happy to try and help.

[@MERTYUCELofficial]

How do you display 16:9 full screen workbench with indivision mk3 ???? Ive the same card. I cant do it.

[@10MARC]

You need to download the optional screen modes from Aminet - 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720 and 1280x1024. Search for HighGFX and you will find them. Then you need to set up the screen modes using the utility. They work pretty good, but can sometimes introduce artifacts on the screen. I find they work best to display static pictures. Be warned displaying 1280x1024 in HAM8 mode uses every drop of CHIP RAM you might have!

[@ToddsNerdCave]

Excellent video. I have been on the fence about picking up a Indivision MK3 for my 1200. I really wish it had the option to grab Paula audio to route through the hdmi output. I know there is an fpga audio option, but I would rather just use the original audio if possible.

[@10MARC]

I have not messed with the audio option. Not sure if the A4000 version has it, but it might! The settings are in the config program, but I have not messed with them. Since you are in North America I suspect you will have the same inability to flash and the cold boot issue that many of us have. Hopefully soon Jens will see the pattern and admit there is a problem. It's totally worth getting! I love my MK2 on my Amiga 1200!

[@mjmonjure]

Thanks Doug, I had the MK3 in my cart (along with a few other things) and was ready to check out, but holy crap, this seems like a configuration day at the gym. And one with potential kinks. I’ll give them 6 months or so to work on those kinks and then grab one.

[@10MARC]

Well... If history is any judge you won't find any changes to the software that magically makes it easier. It is honestly worth learning the interface, as you only have to program each mode one time and may never have to touch it again. The difference between standard RGB and the MK3 is worth some hassles

[@RoqueFortStu]

I have an older version of the Indivision in my A1200 which can connect to VGA monitors, or in my case a TV with a VGA port. The picture is as sharp as can be, just what I need for pixel-perfect precision when animating with Deluxe Paint 5. When it comes to recording my animations, mostly cartoons, to DVD via a DVD and HD recorder, I still use composite video (yellow, white and red phono,) which is obviously a lot softer, but that's good as the resolution is only 640x512, so when softened it looks less pixelated! No doubt composite and possibly VGA will be phased out in the future, so I may have to sort out HDMI

[@10MARC]

Nice idea to record the animations via composite. It probably looks more "CRT" accurate that way with the subtle blurring.

[@sircathal7505]

I used double sided Thermal Tape to fix the adapters on the chips because the tend to jump of when you move the Amiga

[@10MARC]

That's a really good idea. I have some nice thin double sided thermal tape that would work great!

[@shan2752]

I think that the tool is very good once you understand what it’s doing. Some of your normal modes won’t show overscan based on your settings. You need 720 x 576 for PAL and 720 x 480 for NTSC for full overscan.

[@10MARC]

The Indivisions do a terrible job with Overscan. The MKII is better, but the MK II is notorious for only being able to do like 648 x 480

[@shan2752]

The MK3 works perfectly for me. But I have a PAL A1200 that I bought from the UK some years ago.

[@a4000t]

I wonder if you changed the NTSC 28.3636 oscillator in the A4000 motherboard with a PAL oscillator at 28.37516 would fix it.. sounds like the reset is timed to pal tightly or some such. Just a guess however :) I admit,i won't ever give up my Picasso IV :D

[@10MARC]

That is certainly possible. Other devices work fine with NTSC timing, so I don't see why this cannot be made to work. I am back right now on my RTG card on my A4000 and loving it!

[@NorthWay_no]

You didn't test A2024 modes - were they not supported at the time of the video?

[@10MARC]

A2024 modes? Do those work?

[@NorthWay_no]

@@10MARC A bit of googling shows I jumped the gun here; it is one of the possibly upcoming features for V4. Which so far has not been announced for AGA....

[@SuperCozMick]

Thanks Doug, great video and tutorial is really on point.

[@10MARC]

Glad you enjoyed it! I have heard many times that people don't mess with the Config tool much because it is so darn confusing... And it is!

[@flyworld9620]

so any news on the issue not saving the firmware to the mk3?

[@piyushkhengar]

Have you tried this with the VGA out on a CRT monitor? If so, how does it look?

[@10MARC]

CRT? With these 52 year old eyes? I would go blind! My only VGA CRT is covered with dust in a storage area under my garage.

[@AmigaFanatic1980]

I love my IndyMK3 (in my A1200) - but oh how I wish their was someway to get more chipram in the system

[@10MARC]

That would be nice, eh? 8 MB that they were planning would have been ideal - heck that would have been so much more than most nice video cards had until the 2000's! Vampire Stand Alone can do it and WinUAE/Amiberry can so I suppose that is something...

[@AmigaFanatic1980]

@@10MARC I can only imagione how cool a 4MB Chip Ram A1200 would have been (esp if they used VRam!) nice and zippy 256 colour WB with plenty of chip ram to spare

[@plechaim]

@@AmigaFanatic1980 by the time the of the Escom era 1995/96 this is what we really needed. Just double the chip RAM, put an 030 on the motherboard and sell it is the A1300 in the same case as the 1200 with a new badge. An easy win for Escom whilst a genuinely new model was being developed.

[@AmigaFanatic1980]

@@plechaim Heck even just adding 1 or 2MB onboard fast ram doubles the performance of the 020 as it’s not fighting for chipram access. Commodore/Escom should have been the ones building and selling accel cards (as they could have bought in volume this lowering the price compared to the myriad of third parties trying to compete in a small market with high cost parts). An onboard low end 030, 4MB Chip and 2MB fast would have been a sweet system but i fear even then they were doomed as the modularity of the PC would have still won out in the end. A system like this may have just let Commodore/Escom sputter on for another year or 2 at most but with no real cash to finish dev on any new chipsets/systems (chopping & changing direction too much) & with no encouragement of 3rd parties for much needed software (something they never did at the start) they were dead in the water (they just left too much down to third parties to fill in the gaps)

[@roscoe500]

@@plechaim Escom were doing pretty much this with the Walker, at the time CD-ROM was important and this needed a new case. They definitely should have have made an A1200+ though that shipped as standard with say 2MB fast RAM and a modest HD as these two things change make a huge difference to a stock A1200.

[@Darrenhd2]

So with this reset/black screen issue if you cold boot into a game you could get a black screen? This would be a show stopper for me until Jens can get if fixed. Keep us updated. I have a MK2 in my A4000 and that configuration tool is confusing as well...I am sure I am not getting the full benefit of even the MK2. it is set to 800x600 now and that works, but I can never get it to fill the screen entirely.

[@10MARC]

I also have an MKII and would be happy to help get yours configured correctly. Maybe I should do a video on that one again! I did one a long time ago, maybe episode 12 or so. The 1280 x 720 and 1024 x 768 resolutions are totally worth it if you do any creative work! And yes, with many of our MKIII boards a cold boot means a black screen. He still says it is "just a few boards" but his support forum has a lot of people complaining about it.

[@Darrenhd2]

@@10MARC Thanks, inspired by your video I got the HighGFX drivers and I got 1024x768 to work on my MK2. It is slow :) But I was able to render out nice HAM8 images. I haven't found a way with the MK2 to stretch the screen to fill your monitor like you can in the MK3. Perhaps because the MK2 has no scaler. I will wait on the MK3 until the black screen issue is resolved.

[@10MARC]

@@Darrenhd2 Yes, these modes are really only useful to render graphics on, but they do an incredible job doing that!

[@DikkeBetha]

I have a Mk3 in my European (PAL) A1200 and it works great. That said, I do have the same problem that the config cannot be flashed to the device from workbench (same error as you). I too have to boot from floppy and use FlashTool to save my custom config to the device. So it's probably not a NTSC thing because my PAL A1200 has the same issue. I run a Blizzard 1240T accelerator with MMUlibs. Maybe that has an influence? But credit where credit is due. Jens created another masterpiece. Granted, the tool has a steep learning curve as it is quite technical. But nothing I could not figure out. Would buy one again in a heartbeat.

[@10MARC]

I suppose that's good news that it's happening on pal systems and ntsc systems... But I would rather it happen on no systems! I wonder if it's a problem with version 1.11 of the config software. Or maybe the last couple versions of the config software. I'm hoping that Jens takes a look at all the people having the issue and addresses it with something other than blaming it on the power supply.

[@DikkeBetha]

@@10MARC The problem with not being able to save to flash from the GUI exists with v1.9, 1.10 and 1.11 (on my PAL A1200). Cannot speak for others. I started out with 1.9 and the firmware on the device is the same to this day. Only the software got newer versions. I'll drop Jens a line on his own forum.

[@10MARC]

@@DikkeBetha Excellent information. I think sooner rather than later he will have to admit he is having a serious issue with flashing his cards.

[@gshipley21]

Great video Doug. I have had a MK3 in my 1200 for a few months and still don't understand all the modes. Your video sure did help me. Count me in for one of those that would also like a dedicated video. I am still unsure of the relationship when setting a mode in Prefs->Screenmode and how that get's used by the mk3. I am guessing it translates it to a new mode on the fly or something? The documentation for this thing but could better ;)

[@10MARC]

I will start working on a quick video that just addresses working with the config tool. I think it would be very helpful.

[@gshipley21]

@@10MARC I also wanted to chime in and say mine will not flash either in workbench. I am running a pal 1200 with a Tsunami 1230 card.

[@10MARC]

@@gshipley21 Can you post that on Jens support forum? He is still saying it is "just a few" complaints and I am telling him I am hearing it from a bunch of people. He is only seeing what is on his forum. I suspect 70% of purchasers never bother with the config utility and just use the standard 640 x 512 modes that work, and may not know that their unit will not flash either.

[@colmmccallion9204]

@@10MARC I am just about to install a MKIII into my A1200 so thanks for the video. I also have a 1200 in a checkmate case using a MKII and use the config utiliy with that one so if I get the issues with the MKIII you got I will post to the forum

[@10MARC]

@@colmmccallion9204 The tool for the MKII is quite different! Maybe even a bit more difficult. I should do an update video on that card.

[@byrons8956]

I have an Idek monitor that could handle all sorts of weird frequencies, but the monitor wasn’t cheap.

[@10MARC]

Oh nice! You still use that monitor now? Can it handle those really freaky resolutions?

[@CrashUK28]

Can Indivision MK3 play RTG games?

[@GadgetUK164]

Great video! Wow that's a bit fiddly to setup... I hope your Warp Engine isn't totally dead - maybe there's a bad solder point somewhere? It's really useful you sharing this info - I was considering buying one, I think I will pass lol

[@10MARC]

Well as fiddly as they are, it is still a great product. I am hoping my Warp Engine is OK!

[@shan2752]

When you save and apply, the configuration is flashed to the device. No need to select that flash device option.

[@10MARC]

You would think that would be the case, but a lot of these MKIII's don't work right. I literally have to save a configuration file, but to the rescue floppy and then flash the device to permanently save anything. Jens knows about the issue but likes to pretend it hardly affects anyone, even when his forums are full of people with the same issue

[@cv643d]

I thought I was the only one who thought you had to have a science degree to understand how to configure the MK3 :)

[@10MARC]

Nope. It is just complicated. It seems like there would be an easier way to lay everything out. Here are your modes: now adjust them for your specific monitor.

[@jasonhowe1697]

my question why force a resolution that didn't see mass use in pc monitors until the late 90's and only real usable on 17-23 inch vga/svga screens, kinda pointless on 12-14 inch pc monitors of the time.. for wide screen to be practical you are looking at a screen resolution of 720x576 to 800x600 your issue isn't the res you are displaying it is the horizontal shift is you.. I am not sure whether the trapazoidal is out either.. however I don't know how vgs would look from something that at worst needs a rf connection or at best composite

[@10MARC]

Why do anything with this archaic and outdated tech? Well... Because we can and it is fun! The amazing thing is that a standard AGA machine from 1992 could always create these screens as long as there was a driver for it. And I know there was for the 800x600 and I believe the 1,024x768 mode even back in the early to mid-90s.

[@jasonhowe1697]

@@10MARC my point it isn't a driver issue i am talking i'm talking here it is the monitor typically of 12-14 inch in which looks shithouse 1280x720 only became a usable solution on 17-22 inch screens man ove d-ssub we've had that capacity to do 1080p in the last 10-15 years.. I am not knocking usind 1280x720 however even if you could build ini file suitable to run this resolution from a tv standpoint not going to happen.. I can run vga to my 55inch 4k tv however when displaying a resolution that is typical for pc, is not going to translate well for what you are tryign to display..because the bigger resolution shrinks things..

[@HaMMeR_Oz]

Doug, Chris wants to have words with you about bending pins!

[@10MARC]

Next time tell him I will just chop them off!

[@geofftaylor8913]

I am having problems finding the mk3 on their web site. How much in dollars is it. This would be for my 4000.

[@10MARC]

Just a touch over $200 for me. Look on his (slow) website for "Scan Doubler"

[@Jkauppa]

crt's

[@10MARC]

I own a few, and for some things they are certainly neat - like as preview monitors for the Toaster and for watching old VHS movies... But even back in 1988 I would have loved something that did not flicker and had a big screen! I saw my first LCD display at a CES show in the 90's and knew that was the future. Try running Image FX on a 14" CRT and your eyeballs will cry for a nice 24" Non Interlaced display!

[@SM-sk1sm]

Its , a lie. as is most everything here. To dumb down what was left of the Amiga community..Granted getting macs then u arent an Amiga person, I had Rgb to vga out geneder changer. I led the charge not to buy this makers vga board as they are saying u need to pay 50 or so for their board. The true thing is VGA is inferior to RGB ,and it Doesnt sync. Why, even try to use it .TVs are Best getting All colors vga monitors dont,and thats what they Still are.They grab 6bit base out of the8bit base. Amigas ,can go straight RGB.Which, is Superior. RGB to HDMI cable for 50 bucks,the old gender changer I got for 15 bucks. So the vga switch on the A3000 was bs that was a Manger scheme ,by commodore .Nothing ,to do with Jay,Dave,or Karl.I know I talked to them.

[@MastaTabs]

I bet the flashing has todo with the mmu.library setup which is not active when you boot from the rescue floppy.

[@10MARC]

Now that is an interesting theory for sure. I suppose I could test it by booting into "safe mode" on my AmigaOS 3.2.1 install.