INEOS have something no other team has: 3D Jib Trimmer

New for this Cup cycle is self tacking jibs. A piece of hardware which has been around for years in sailing. But we've never seen anything like what INEOS has installed before. What is it? How does it work? What are the advantages?
Recon video and photos credit to Recon Photographer / @America's Cup
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[@wayneheaney6271]

Anyone else starting to get cup fever?😂 Bro love ur content been following you since the last cup 🤙🏽

[@spartan6992]

I have cup fever bad! Can't wait for it to start. 😁

[@francoisfrisch6082]

Agreed the endless series of sailor interviews on the official channel are dull. This really gets you interested in what the teams are doing.

[@grantsutherland6798]

It looks like they are getting a whole lot more functionality! Well documented. Hydraulics def is the way forward, as is getting things under deck. Being able to alter the leach twist on the fly and sheet to windward also has many benefits too. I don't think it's overly complex once it is refined. The clews of both sails is def an area that has been in much need of getting the correct 3D position for a long time

[@MrGritteeth]

You are good for all the latest on these now complicated racing sail boats. The only one to watch.

[@cello.s]

Very interesting video and a lot more possibilities to make the most out of the jib. However I first thought, that that way it isn't a self tacking jib. But with a 5-3 way control valve for the hydraulic you can connect the two chamberd together. That way its self tacking again as the traveller can move pressing the oil from one chamber through the control valve to the second chamber. Not as frictionless as the NZ system with sigle rope but selftacking nevertheless. And only if you need to actively control the traveller in certain situations you can use the hydraulic system to push the traveller in or out. Seems very reasonable to me if they see an advantage to control it. Of course changing the sheeting angle is very usefull in this boats where the shape of the sail in take of must be completly different than on high speed runs. As always! Love your video content, explanations and stuff! Thank you a lot!

[@pierocostantini2864]

Amazing job, Tom. Super entertaining.

[@garylewis7729]

The beauty of the America’s cup is the slower boat can still win races . Whichever team catches the strongest wind at the right time in the right place will have the best chance . They are all so close technically

[@trathje424]

Thanks for the fantastic explanations. I like the American way. It is simple but flexible. The Ineos way seems to be very complex and failures may be likely… we will see what future brings. Cheers Tim

[@spartan6992]

So technical now. I have had to go back to school on sailing. With these boats you don't really know until they try. Looking forward to your next video.

[@macscott5290]

Love the “if they’re really shit at tacking” comment 😂 could do with this myself some days 👍 For me the ability to vary the sheet angle from one connection point on the sail looks like the primary driver of all this. Marginal gains in certain conditions but increased weight, drag and complexity? Be interesting to see where this goes.

[@peteharper3614]

Love the "cucumber sandwiches" comment. I had the same thought, hove-to for lunch break. I can see one added benefit of the black box. They can dynamically change the jib lead position fore and aft. Obviously they are looking at this with the multiple tell-tails on the clew and leach. I suspect they are looking to improve off-wind performance or to power up the jib during takeoff then de-power for speed mode. I remember last cup the boats reaching around trying to get back up on the foils.

[@spartan6992]

Makes sense wanting to take off without having to bare away as much.

[@MarkGovier]

Looks neat to me and as you say, when tested and placed under the foredeck or at least under an aerodynamic cover... of course the others will be looking the the potential advantages this might bring.

[@Bob_Morrow]

Clever innovation! Looking forward to Beta 2.0 as they refine the concept. Who doesn't want to drive their competitor head to wind and then bear away quickly!

[@andreasb.6248]

Great explanation of what this box maybe for and great comments on it as well! I personally fear that a complex system like this will have a significant risk of failing at the worst moment......but then again, it might only be meant for finding out how far the extension of sheeting ranges for the jib may be useful. I don't think the possibility to back the jib for turning the boat is a dominant factor; if that happens, it would probably be easier to avoid the mistakes having been made before it becomes a necessity.....

[@notthatkenny]

I think that that "box?" and track may just get an upgrade to reduce the size for less windage and/or imbed in the deck provided the rules would allow that mod to the hull. In the early days of multihull racing we used to pause the jib in a tack by letting it go to windward for a couple of seconds to help the boat turn through quicker but not necessary in anything else I have sailed. Pausing at 5:30 in the video I like the that setup. It has a lot less going on and really nothing to go wrong except for a failure which is very unlikely.

[@gregeconomeier1476]

Wow. I love all the tech and imagination going into the boats these days. Makes me want to be a young man again! I'm living here off Pensacola Bay. This makes me want to put a drone up in the air and see what the boys at American Magic are up to. Better not, they're my home team. Big grins.

[@jeffreyparker587]

If the box is moved under the deck the slot would have to be the width of the foredeck and the for and aft dimension the amount of lead travel. Water intrusion might be a problem. The slot could be narrowed if a lever was utilized to create for and aft movement. The stress on the box would of course be increased .I wonder if jib booms are allowed If so the clew angle could be moved to the boom like the main. Another option could be a moveable clew on the sail with a servo motor again subject to rules.

[@carbonarne675]

Yes thanks! It's weeeeekend I love it! Thanks!

[@douglasringholt2606]

It pulls the Jib car up to Wynward ! Spare me. Aussie Doug.

[@kohli12]

Theres more than just backing the jib... think about the flapping during tacks.. they might be able to reduce that (drag).

[@MozzySails]

That's a good point. There's some good footage of them doing this in the recon highlights. I should jave mentioned that!

[@SeQuBu]

Besto f the whole video "Giles are you in charge of the butty box today@ Priceless 😂😂😂

[@stevehartley7504]

Using boat to help change sheeting Putting this below deck would compromise structural integrity for minimal aero benefit Plus you have ducted aero over system to minimise aero loss where sail is held down. F1, any small gain adds up. Now it's theory into reality!

[@carbonarne675]

That's amazing for matchracing

[@jackmm8]

Great video as always! The skit made me laugh too

[@dfontyn]

Brilliant! it will be re-engineered below deck and be "connected" to the mainsail trimmer! thus you will have 2 sail trimmers, leeward main and jib together and windward main only, this will be relegated per tack. so ji main unified in the leeward side and windward will do this "side" of the main sail smooth/low drag forming. an added advantage in the slow archimedean mode of having jib to use to immediately turn the bow.

[@AdrianThompson-wn8eu]

Curious about the 3 hydraulic lines. Either three single acting rams, or one double acting (powered extension and powered return) and one single acting ram. The sheet could be on a single acting ram, using the sheet load to extend. If they used a hydraulic motor here it would need two hydraulic lines. As the three lines go into the ugly black box, I'm guessing double acting ram for jib sheet fore and aft position, and single acting for sheet land. A sledge to crack a nut?

[@MozzySails]

Yes, I think that's the same conclusion I came to. It's a lot of hardware to create the desired affect

[@theubsportschannel8864]

I am wondering if the criss crossing lines are also set up to try to keep the tension on the foot (length from tack to clew) and the angle of pull from the clew to the sheet block consistent through the different sheeting angles.

[@DD-xg4fe]

Super interesting. I’m wondering… could this somehow help them to fly sooner?

[@brianballard1729]

During preparatory research and training, any "bright idea" may be tried to see if there is a potential advantage to be had. (OR it is a "red rag" of deception of 'analysts seeking what advantage' the opposition is testing)?

[@olorin9255]

What percentage of drag from the jib can be reduced by trimming it completely flat? Could this allow them to err on the large side for take-off/if the wind speed is in a crossover range and trim the jib extremely flat when at speed? Are there gains to be had by trimming the jib flat and shifting the centre of effort backwards to the main?

[@Clipper_Damez]

You've got to try anything these days, nothing is a stupid idea until you've tried it and it didn't work. Thinking outside the box is what will give a team the edge over the competition and perhaps enough to win.

[@DKSorg]

#WhiteLines = Think of the CABLES in a gym.... & Mechanical Advantage with Pulleys.... you can see INTO the Black box by the orange Lines...you can see what looks like a DISC or Pulley & Cable inside...

[@jerrycotter4108]

Will we need crew anymore on these boats ?

[@mixerguru]

I would hazzard a guess that the travel car would introduce real time active trim expressed in multiple trim inputs to the sail actively reshaping the the sail to the air in real time

[@truegret7778]

Hmm, seems like that might eat away at the hydraulic power and weight budget. But, perhaps they save themselves some manual labor (ok, labour) with this system? It's an interesting system, and your suggestion to put it "below deck" (I used to like that show), is a good one. Cheers - and, yea mate, cut your sandwiches properly!

[@ger5989]

He mozzy, on your question what do you think about it, the answere is so easy (btw realy great intell great stuff man) oh hell yeh this is going to be copied for sure. Why: exactly as you mensoined there is no spinaker so the jib has to be used to it's fullest. When you look at how the main can be changed in every way possible. In stark contrast to the jib that can be changed only when your not sailing. mmmm. I hear people already say he you got the sheet. Yeh right what do think what is hanppening to the jib when AWS is about 40 kts then AWA in a range of 15 dgr. And then the wind drops and you have to change te power oh no the set-up can not be changed damn now losing the AC. Yust take it a little step forward about the de main trimmer now has also the jib on his playstation so combine them and it becomes every trimmer wet dream ;-). Complexity? that to name of the game.

[@mrvaticanrag3946]

Will it qualify for a Heath Robinson award?

[@lawriebrice1103]

looks like a good idea, I am surprised they have shown it so early if it is a ground breaker.

[@sebmackenzie-wilson8246]

F1-style jib hydraulic regen?

[@CurtisTheFlyer]

You're dwelling on the mechanics of how it works and not what it does. They are controlling the jib 'twist'. In other words, the shape of the air foil and how it spills the air. It's what sails are all about - aerodynamics - camber changes at various angles of attack in varying conditions. You did mention tightening the leach, but leach lines per se just tighten the leach and create a pocket.

[@MozzySails]

but without the mechanics, it can't produce the desired effect (control of sail twist)

[@bradclifton5248]

I guess teams will figure out what you are but, this is exactly why Etnz is so cagey and delays release of boats, as long as possible.

[@lorelbelli]

Apart from back filling the jib there are much simpler solutions So I think they overcomplicated the system using more hydraulic power they could have used elsewhere

[@robingimblett2171]

Why criss cross the lines when they could attach one centrally to each side of the black box. Would save a lot of pulley friction.

[@MozzySails]

They could attach to a central point, bit as the jib sheet moves right forward, or right to back then the thing might twist. It does seem like a lot of rope and turning points to achieve something simple though!

[@robingimblett2171]

@@MozzySails Yep, seems the 'twist' issue could be solved by having more rollers on each track. That said this could just be a highly variation piece of testing kit to establish best angle or range of adjustability they need to achieve from a race system.

[@SOVEREIGNDesigns]

Might have missed something but that ain't going under the deck

[@solosailingteam9515]

Very funny parody)))

[@3drocket]

Your Cup videos are always really interesting. Thanks for making them.

[@MozzySails]

Thanks Matthew!

[@robinangus448]

More INEOS team impressions please! Butty box line nearly killed me. 🤣

[@weatheranddarkness]

I do think that some sort of (active) bi axial control of the jib is going to be seen on at least a couple boats by cup time. This particular system seems to me to be the kind of prototype that's intended to maximise the range of adjustability to find out what the window of adjustment in practice need to be, and then they can go on to packaging optimisation once they've established that. It's very interesting about the call it, desmodromic, or servo, actuation on this setup though. I expect its main function is going to be coordination of sail movements. With a simply self-tacking setup you have sort of a 'dumb' jib, but a 'smart' main. Nailing maximum power through a whole maneuver means you want maximum control of sail shape right across the centreline, and you want to be feeding the main the least turbulent air you can in concert. I remember reading that self tacking would be allowed this time, but it struck me as odd since to my eye it looked like they were self tacking last time too.

[@Gottenhimfella]

I had a similar thought. There's little or no incentive to implement a fully simplified solution at this early stage; better to put something on the boat which can provide the maximum of active 3D clew control in real time. They would use that to evaluate, not just the limits of the window, but the degree of advantage conferred, and the motion control parameters (how fast, how much force etc). It would pay them to optimise the "packaging" (and any necessary structural mods, such as a trench for aero) as late in the buildup as possible to keep the competition from copying the optimised version. If anything, an unappetising early implementation could reduce the chances of other teams following suit. I think the third hydraulic hose can be for cranking in the sheet as Mozzy speculates: it could be a single acting, spring return ram within the moving car housing, so that only a single hose was required. Rationale: there is never a situation where you need to "push" on a jib sheet in a self tacking installation. Possibly the sheet ram could have an oval piston and cylinder to minimise the depth for aero reasons. Could use three or four springs side by side to return the piston.

[@Supasarge]

Best interactive informer-gram yet! Thanks for investing the time to put that illustration together for us.

[@gregwilkins1128]

Are you sure they are not using this to harvest oil pressure from the jib during a tack rather than using oil pressure? Would that be allowed by the rules?

[@thorntontarr2894]

Perhaps by exploring all the possibilities with this arrangement they can estimate the magnitude of the loss in efficiency with the standard system that you describe for Team NZ and American Magic. With this data they can decide if it should not be used as the gain is too marginal for the system/hardware complications. I like the idea of gaining knowledge even if there is no plan to really use it. Said another way, it is shows appreciable gain, then a design challenge can begin to make a passive system (no hydraulics) that yields most of the gains. All this presumes that gains exist. Love the "quite British" description of cucumber sandwiches!

[@Gottenhimfella]

Sound reasoning, I reckon.

[@tonyb83]

Ref at 8.05 the 'cris crossing' of the ropes to stop the car 'wiggling around' and jamming is called a 'parallel motion' arrangement. Parallel motion arrangements were/are used on engineering and architects drawing boards in the days before computer aided design, when drawing boards were usec.

[@andrewoconnor2720]

Love ya work Mozzy! As a non sailor, cup fan who's a bloody engineer I'm loving this stuff!

[@MozzySails]

Great to hear!

[@simplerefinedliving9285]

How has this guy "Only" got 22.5k subs??? Excellent breakdown there. Once again Ineos going down the ultra tech route. Simple old ETNZ are just going to do it better me thinks.

[@ezrabell742]

If you have ever been wing foiling in marginal conditions you have to pump like anything to get up. This could be set up to work with the main traveler to pump the boat onto the foils in light winds?

[@williamgraymuir6678]

Thank you so much for making it all so interesting - I've no idea how you find the time to research it all and make the films, but only wish you had time to do more!

[@Rocket_Ninja-im7nq]

Do you think they could have the potential to use the wind and tacking properties of the jib to pump hydraulics back into the system to help supply more pressure to other systems during a tack such as foil arms being able to move faster.

[@richlatvala8143]

Great commentary! Very insightful and intelligent. Love it! I wish the commentary would figure out that sailors are watching Americas Cup and Sail GP and not people off the street. This is the best part of the cup…. The lead up and design choices being made.

[@SteelNerve]

As always, fantastic content and observations, with a little humor lightening the mood😀. Being able to cross the jib helps push the nose where ever you want whenever you want. The traditional self-tacker is totally passive and has no influence like this. I remember on the catamaran in light conditions we would delay the jib tack to help push the nose around to the new tack (and no I didn't have a self-tacker on my Taipan 4.9). But I think this system is over-complicated to achieve something that you could do with a line from each side attached to the car that could pull it into the wind if you needed to.

[@gargoreg]

I can't help thinking this is only a development platform. It's primary purpose is data gathering. Therefore some of the system complexities are for getting to extreme geometries. Maybe to see, what are the envelopes, limitations etc of the computer modelling, as well as if such complexities are worthwhile carrying onto the final boat. Windage and baulk are not a consideration at this point in the development. I love that we are given access to these tests and that you are then filtering them for us. You are my primary source of the AC hardware developments. Keep up the good work.....

[@richardnorthover8995]

Mozzy, as always, good research and review of the tech arms race that is the cup. Keep it up, much appreciated.

[@MozzySails]

Thanks Richard!

[@speedintraffic]

Because the tracks are straight, they have a greater need to move the sheeting angle forwards/backwards to compensate for no curvature in the track. The track has to be straight otherwise the crossover coupling wouldn't work because the tension would vary depending on car position. Interesting..

[@BryanBowser]

I wonder if the ability to change leach tension gives them more options during tacks, trying to get on the foils or even depowering in a puff. They could also twist (or untwist) the jib at the same time as the main.

[@joepbronneberg3057]

Woohoo excellent video and explanation of these systems. The straight rail system is excellent. Could this be made for the mainsheet systems from last video ie the Italian team? I suppose that if one uses small hydraulic rams designed for length output in stead of sheer force the system could be quit efficient. So the efficiency design of all hydraulic rams could be key. Just as the sequential use of them. And then designing them below deck. Really looking forward to the new design-AC75s. I am also looking forward to the unboxing of the ALLEN box and your set up...😃

[@Chris.Davies]

1:55 - All the white lines are merely multiple block'n'tackles, to increase leverage, and reduce the torque needed to move it laterally. I'm not a sailor - but that seems fairly obvious to me. Every extra block adds yet more leverage - yeah?

[@JonasWallinder]

Splendid as always. I do hope we get more of the voice acting as well, maybe a full voice over commentary on the races?

[@MozzySails]

Haha! Not sure I can stretch to that!

[@grantsutherland6798]

If you want to hear funny commentating look no further than Radio Hauraki (NZ) ... cracks me up ACC Alternative Commentary Collective

[@mikeh996]

You look so happy with your present 🎁 🎉😁

[@lawrencefalk8714]

It seems like ETNZ and Prada had a mainsheet advantage over Ineos and American Magic at the last Cup, so it is good that Ineos is experimenting with new trim designs (even if it reminds me of a Roomba). I look forward to seeing how it all evolves.

[@leuvenisaplace]

Roomba description contains a (nice?) subtle bit of burn, perhaps a sponsorship opportunity (cough, cough Dyson). America's Cup success is dependent on innovation as much as the skill of the sailing teams, so yes trying stuff before the regatta is vital, even if to disprove the validity of changes implemented.

[@weatheranddarkness]

@@leuvenisaplace Dyson's pockets are pretty deep, and they're british, would be a good tieup.

[@1rudderbum]

Great info, keep up the good work brother !

[@racheljones6529]

Awesome work , always look forward to your posts. NZ viewer.

[@James_Hallam]

Great analysis as always. Put that box below decks with two sliding plates for the sheet exit - 3d sheeting and aero++ . Would a bridle each side of the box and dead-ending sheets on a block to the bridle be simpler than the crossover arrangement (and still work)?

[@jonathanseal5155]

Another cogent analysis from our mate Mozzy!! As always, brilliant insight, and now piss-taking Pommie humour as well👍👍👏👏 bloody good stuff, sport👍👍🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

[@tomasbengtsson9124]

How about the US Navys "Flying ship"?!? kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2PMZHibitOeq5I

[@Coolcmsc]

I think this will prove fantastic. What we’ll see: 1. They’ll be quick. Then, 2., they’ll get into a muddle with wind in a key race and, by means of backing the foresail with this new trolly job, it will turn disaster into a win by pulling the hill round and up onto the wings on a tricky day and we’ll all be cheering them and saying what a genius idea. Finally, in the final, in the deciding last race, they’ll be ahead looking good for the win and this absurdly complex under engineered trolly will break and they’ll stall off-plane and Emirates will storm past for the win. All, including us, will have egg on our faces. Later, as the engineers de-brief what went wrong, an email will be found in which a junior member of the team flags up a concern the night before final race day saying that it needed replacing before the final; and the attached reply will show that a ‘boss’ had had a ‘jolly good look at it [the trolly]’ and decided not to replace it just in case the fettling itself caused a problem….

[@pieterbarneveld9518]

Way too complicated…. Using valuable hydraulic energy to do a job that does not need doing. The extra weight and wind resistance are all negatives. Speed at which these new boats maneuver will punish complex systems.

[@olsonartstudio3026]

The flow rate on those hydraulics would need to be extreme..compared to letting the wind move your mainsheet on tack..

[@ELSDN4319]

I think the dual jib sheets on the self tacking jib track is a brilliant but simple way to accomplish the same thing. If they feel the need to pull the track to weather (for light tacking or for getting out of irons) a simple solution is two independent traveler control lines, one for each tack. It’s a little more than other teams currently use, but far less complicated than the Ineos contraption. I see too many potential failure modes in that.

[@R.B_B]

I'm a noob on those boats. Whit those hydraulics system they uses battery's or/and combustion engine to maintain power for the hydraulic systems?

[@hughtattersall7583]

Slicing cucumber with an oniony knife (Swallows & Amazons)

[@cliveengel5744]

Nice one Mozzy - extra 50 kg of weight but worth investigating!

[@CraigOverend]

This made me want a trimaran that can move the hull towards the windward float by sliding it along the crossbeams. 🤔Carramaran?

[@tframe]

all about the small margins i suppose and some real innovative thinking, which is what this is all about

[@TheZitherish]

To be below deck, would require an area of the deck that can slide for and aft, and side to side. Like a 2d sliding hatch lid, with an eye in the centre.

[@stevehartley7504]

Self tacking. Double track block and tackle, to lessen torque whilst in use

[@evanoc12345678]

Leech trim is soo important!!

[@AndyRRR0791]

They might be using the hydraulics as a pump rather than an actuator to add to total hydraulic power available.

[@dougsmith5690]

Thanks for keeping us informed on the kit these boats are running. The technology development is so amazing.

[@SpininStyle]

Quote of the video: yeah, if they’re really shit at tacking…

[@freeaccess5905]

Great analysis and video. Your videos are a must see for all us AC fans.

[@MozzySails]

Thanks for the endorsement!

[@jaysparc]

Do they cut the crusts off the cucumber sandwiches? is there some recon on that?

[@jamescampbell9187]

Obviously auto vacuum cleaner! Love the channel. 👍

[@MozzySails]

Thanks James!

[@alisonphillips8432]

I think it can act like a barber hauler and control the slot between main & jib.

[@barrypope4358]

That's, "Mr Pete", for you "non foiling" lot!

[@roslynhita6149]

..I dunno ...more moving parts..we will see soon enough I guess

[@11calman]

Mozzy Sails,, Welcome to NZ mate

[@Hotzenplotz1]

On the AC boats in 2001 we had a 3D jib sheet system as well. I have not spoken to the sailors afterwards as the illbruck (GER68) wasn't finished but sold to NZ for training and comparison purposes. But it's not a new wish to have more flexibility in the jib sheeting. Just not sure how much it helps when the sheet stays in the same position on the sail. But it seemed Ineos doesn't have several points to pick on the jib? Couldn't really see it.

[@declan8649]

Terrific video Mozzy. Looking for jib track solutions for my Hobie. Going to check out options from Allen. Your analysis make the build up to the cup so much more interesting.

[@dfontyn]

Here we see? Over in Cagliari, it was a very different story for Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli who were enjoying a full range of conditions on flat water and looking sensational throughout in their LEQ12. When the breeze got up, Francesco Bruni, Jimmy Spithill and Ruggero Tita showed unbelievable accuracy in their steering whilst the stalwart cohort of Flight Controllers Umberto Molineris, Vittorio Bissaro and Andrea Tesei showed just why they are rated so highly in America’s Cup circles with desperately low flight upwind, flat and controlled power downwind and an ultimately stable platform throughout the near four-hour session. Trim of the mainsail was just beautiful with rapid alterations on the traveller and mainsheet whilst there’s still a suspicion of some linkage at times upwind between the main sail and jib.

[@MajaLisaIII]

I would guess this ”magic box” also gives them the ability to more effectively pump up the boat into foiling mode in marginal conditions (if it can move to windward fast enough). Just my 2cents…

[@charliewalters536]

Mozzy - surely this is so they can change the "barber hauler" sheeting angle while sailing.... and also it is more precise than the rope systems. I don't know if it will make it onto the actual boat - but useful to help them measure how tweaky the jib/slot is. Suspect this is overkill for the race boat, but pretty useful for evaluation work..... but who knows....maybe this will prove to be the 1 string answer to tuning on the AC 75.!

[@EurekaYoungGuns]

Not sure how they could hide this car under the deck. The sheet would need a massive hole in the deck to move freely. I guess they could make waterproof case around all of it, but seems like a lot of extra weight, on top of the extra weight already added by this system. Any ideas?