infantilisation | a regressive abuse [cc]

[@snarkbotanya6557]

"Your birth wasn't a gift to you. It was your parents' gift to themselves. They gave themselves a child." As a childfree person who has been told countless times by people, organizations, and society at large that I'm "selfish" for not giving hypothetical children life, this line resonates very strongly with me. Having a child is not the Pure and Selfless Act that so many make it out to be. I am no more selfish for not having children I don't want than parents are for having children they do want.

[@TheraminTrees]

Yep. And, in keeping with the infantilisation theme, a common parting shot is: 'Oh you'll change your mind when you're older' - insinuating the childfree person's position must stem from immaturity, and can't be the result of conscious reflection on a range of issues.

[@bananamanchester4156]

Great point here! And I think your story highlights how, by pressuring and forcing people into having children they don't want actually devalues the gift of having a child. It's natural to feel resentment for a gift that's been forced on us, that we don't actually want. But it's misplaced resentment- it's not the gift that's the problem, it's the violation of our consent, our wishes for ourselves and what we receive. If we don't want the gift of a child then we shouldn't be forced to accept one. If we do decide we want one, we will appreciate and value the child all the more for the fact that it's our choice.

[@Seeattle]

Imo it’s all just hormones anyway. They keep us wanting to procreate- not strictly selfish nature

[@moosepatil5946]

I wanted no children for a very long time. But I've changed my mind and I can assure you, I don't think I'm giving myself a gift. I want children because I believe I am capable of raising children without damaging them. I believe I have the ability to add to the world a brilliant, loved individual and not a broken, damaged being. Getting here took 15 years of careful self reflection and tremendous personal growth. Maybe some people think of children as a gift to themselves, but not all, many, or most. You can't speak to the thoughts behind the process if you have no interest in the process. Be childfree, but don't act like your are being selfless in doing so or insinutate that those who do have children are selfish. It's your choice to not have child. Your choice doesn't need a moral value assigned to it anymore than the people who choose to have children need a moral value assigned to their choice.

[@snarkbotanya6557]

@@moosepatil5946 When did I say I was being selfless by not having children? I don't want children and I'm not going to have any. In my view, that's not a selfish or a selfless act, just a neutral one. I also said that not having children is no more selfish than having them, i.e. *that neither is morally superior to the other.* If I came across as argumentative at any point, that would most likely be a spilling over of the irritation at having had *many* people over the years act like having children made them morally superior to me.

[@MooneyBabbler]

“In healthy relationships, people don’t try to trap each other with guilt, obligation, or debt.” Something I wish my dad had learned before he helped conceive me and my siblings. Stayed stuck in a lot of broken and abusive relationships before an actual friend pointed out something. “If some guy you don’t know buys you flowers, you don’t owe him a date, relationship, love, or sex. Similarly, if some family member or “friend” gives you something, you don’t owe them love”. You are never obligated to love. Platonic, familial, romantic, whatever; Love comes naturally, you never owe it to anyone, family or otherwise.

[@coopergates9680]

Love is earned, and it can be very difficult to earn at that, and certainly not with materialistic means or old, very common habits.

[@macadon041]

I agree

[@Dragons4Dummies]

While everyone is deserving of love, no one is entitled to it from any particular person.

[@justinaacuriouswanderer1496]

You hit the spot. My father is a very infantilising person. I was subjected to "relentless debilitating micromanagement." 10:33 I go out to the hall to get some water from the dispenser, Dad is closely watching me (already giving me the sense I'll do something wrong inevitably), then he says, "you can't do it," or "you can't do this, you'll be full. You don't know what you need." We're at the dining table, I try to scoop a bit of rice into my bowl, he tells me, "You won't be able to do it. Help her, [mom's name]!" (that's before I even try, and if I fail, it's a no-brainer. Notice we're talking about scooping some bloody rice here! Micromanagement happened to the point of me now being scared or instinctually paranoid about leaving my room and being in his proximity. I'd rather not even if I needed to.). Here's how that's related to debt. I tell him I want my mom to be independent (or me for that matter, in the sense of going out without a huge stifling interrogation of "how I'll do it on my own."). So again, I tell him I want my mom to be financially independent. He responds in a different but equivalent way to the past responses, by saying, "what else do you need? I provide you with everything." See that "else"? As in "nothing else is equivalent to what I give you," as in "I gave you so much," as in "you are indebted for the fact I took care of you." Or, more clearly, as in "what else can you do?", again, diminishing mom's ability to do and making her believe she won't be able to and needs "management" (not diminishing it out of malice, but because he seriously believes she can't. She's just an infant.) That "else" says so much. It says two things, "what else can you do?" and that therefore due to your incapacity, you have to be grateful. And he does say those things literally. Whenever I try to look for something independently, he takes it as a personal insult, a gesture of ungratefulness to what he gives me (which is what most parents should give if they love their children anyway), but more than that, a gesture of me believing I can do something on my own or have my own "personhood" (which to him is bad and even simply untrue). To the point that now the least thing a non-parental figure gives me makes me happy and in an instinctual state of the need to reciprocate with so much, so much more than I am given. Like I've been offered something so great (although it's a small gesture or flower or promise or hug) that I need to reciprocate because in not "reciprocating" and in wanting to have my own personhood and independence, I was trained to see myself as ungrateful and even wrong about my capacity. This video has made me see so much... So much trauma (that made me feel seriously ill) whose connections I couldn't quite make without feeling like I'm just spewing hackneyed, overused aphorisms from cliché childhood psychology or just wanted justification for my behavior like a "victim" (I looked at myself in contempt whenever I tried to see myself as one, because, well, you know.) I even feel horrible and as if my pride was hurt about realizing I might be a victim, because I was trained I "can't"... Get out of it. (whatever it is, not just even victimhood). So there's this spiraling never-ending vortex of "I can't" and they're so debilitating. Treating your child as an infant is like sentencing them to death.

[@bluecoin3771]

Guilt Obligation Debt G.O.D. Sweet criminey.

[@lejci38]

It's even more confusing, when they apply both - infantilisation and parentification (adultification/spousification), so you're not able to do anything, but also responsable for everything.

[@dianaop9880]

Hell yes.

[@crazydragy4233]

Indeed

[@lauratheexplorer6390]

This is truth!

[@BoredLoserAlpha]

👍😀🔫🖕

[@Madhatter1781]

Hey, that's exactly what happened to me :) Along with a lil dash of physical abuse, the "You are responsible for everything but also you get absolutely no freedom to account for that" thought was very strong.

[@ryanzdawson]

This one hits home. My family has infantilized me for years. I get it from both sides: paternal and maternal. They say they want to see me. They act like they want a relationship. Once, my grandmother threatened to disinherit me if I didn't visit more. But if I try to act like an adult and set a time when we can get together, they ice me out. They only want a relationship on their terms, and their terms demand that I remain a child, give up my agency, and do whatever they want whenever they want me to do it. They can't talk with me about my adult life. They can only talk about my childhood. Nothing I do as an independent person is interesting to them in the slightest. When I voice an opinion, they might ignore me or they might become irrationally angry, inventing wrongs I haven't committed. After half my adult life, I finally realized that they don't want a relationship with me at all. They want a relationship with a child. When they reach out to that child and a 40-year-old man appears, they act confused. Like I'm a stranger. In fact, I think they've wanted to exile me for a long time, but they were waiting for an inflammatory incident they could say was my fault. They didn't want to be the bad guys. If I wasn't going to be the child they wanted, they'd use me to martyr themselves. Finally, something did happen. My grandfather died and I made a blog post saying that I hadn't had a relationship with him. My family accused me of spreading lies about my grandfather, and my grandmother told me "Nobody cares about your boring life." I decided then to discontinue contact. They construed this as me inflicting suffering upon them. As always, they saw themselves as the victims. I am happy that I don't have to deal with them anymore.

[@KerryNeeds]

Wow this post sounds like some of my family... never had it displayed like this but it’s exactly what they do. Thank you!

[@Mylifestoriesmaybe]

Honestly dude my situation isn't that much different from yours. But I'm a college student and I can't leave just yet... This shit sucks

[@yordannydelvalle3301]

I am through that problem. Truth is my parents did not have good childhood and so they giving me everything that their parents did not to them. The problem I have 22 year old age and still on my parents house. Though , I am puerto rican most spanish countries tend to be more family oriented than english speaking countries. Another challenge is my deafblindness ( usher syndrome) and still I feel like I am in 16 year old teenager still figuring out life and confuse. I am pretty a manchild kind of guy but not as the stereotypical guy who believe everybody owns him everything or something I am a fearful men who have to hide his emotion because I feel my emotion can be inmature or react in a exagerated way. I do not believe my decision making good amd I am smart enough to lead my life. My family do not want to grow and they can whine or complained about my wrongdoing and everything but they do not want to grow up for their actions. For them I am their little baby boy and sincerely it make me feel like ¿¿useless?? I have difficulty to relate to other adults . They talk about money management, relationships, jobs , family and other adult stuff. I sincerely cannot help anyone I do not have experience for it and nor I held a job in my life. I feel kinda ashamed and I try to be optimistic even though I feel sad or disturbed I surpressed those emotions because I feel like I am being " ungrateful and weak" because they are other who got it worst tham me and still managed to suceed with depression or without it and I feel pathetic. There is so much inside I need to address and resolve. My parents in part have their fault for raising like that but also I am in fought for being passive and naive thinking they have my best interest. My parents are not bad people but as any flaw human being they make mistake and have their biases.

[@aganib4506]

I am sorry that you have to go through that, it seems that your family was toxic. It is great that you cut off contact with them. I hope you find friends that can become your new family!

[@bigpooper4156]

Not even that they want a child, they want control over someone, and the easiest people to control are children

[@HassanRadwan133]

You hit the nail on the head with the "permanent state of debt"

[@TheraminTrees]

Mad isn't it Hassan. Permanent debt. Permanent punishment. What a permanent pain in the arse :8) Hope you're well my friend.

[@Sarablueunicorn]

I'm 33 years old and I'm back at my parents house after 4 years living abroad (lost my job and then pandemic kicked in). All my life, until today, my mother enters the bathroom without permission and keeps on asking if I need help to wash my hair (like I have some disability). I told this to my "therapist" after expressing how verbally and physically abusive my mother always has been and she said " but don't you think your mother is showing that she cares?" WTF!

[@sabrinasjourney]

Get a new therapist.

[@ElliBeenie]

Damn. Not every situation can be solved by reframing things and other mental gymnastics. Find a therapist that has actual competence in helping clients establish healthy boundaries with abusive relatives. Your current one certainly hasn’t.

[@SarahB-u4l]

Funniest thing saw in a movie The rapist = therapist Run away from bad advice

[@Frau.P]

Therapists are so bad, i know many things like that. Its actually scary as hell

[@Zerenko]

"As if they did you some favour. They didn’t. Before you were conceived, you weren’t some potential person waiting in the wings, hoping for life. There was no ‘you’. Your birth wasn’t a gift to you. It was your parents’ gift to themselves. They gave themselves a child. To demand gratitude for a gift you give yourself is absurd. (...) An act of birth or creation is nothing to be grateful for. It’s a completely self-serving act on the part of the parent. It’s what parents do for their children once they’re born that counts. And even then, many of the things often characterised as gifts to the child are actually parental duties. It’s no gift to children to feed them, clothe them, shelter them, protect them, nurture them. Those are just basic responsibilities the parents took on when they decided to have children." Yes, especially the last 3 sentences. You're a genius

[@CartiersRavioli]

The way you're able to explain everything along with the visuals and make it understandable for anyone that might be curious during their first watch truly has me in awe. It's beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

[@alphamoonman]

I have a learning disability. I only have to watch his videos once to understand it all. That really says something about his talents in teaching others.

[@mercurydime8152]

This is so insightful. Being a Jehovah's Witness my entire life, we were always talked down to. Now, with the monthly religious streaming service, anyone can see how members are spoken to condescendingly, as if we were 5 years old. Basic words are defined, speakers speak slowly and pause often, basic illustrations are used as if they're needed to explain such "difficult" material, etc. No wonder I was slow to develop! Now I see my nieces act half their age. The organization just wants to create duty-bound, docile followers who are easy to control. Boundaries & privacy are not respected--not even in a sexual context.

[@TheraminTrees]

The JW broadcasts are jaw-droppingly patronising aren't they. Watching Stephen Lett's grotesque gurning, you'd think he was reading fairytales to kindergarten. The first time I saw him speaking, I wondered if that bizarre spectacle alone was repulsive enough to get some members recoiling and thinking about what they'd signed up to.

[@moocat1060]

@@TheraminTrees I'm crying right now. It because you understand in extreme detail the way we are treated. I use to think I was the only one having these thoughts in the background of is this manipulation? I'll I can say is thank you!

[@Jaden-lv7kx]

I've always hated the idea of preserving innocence. I've always called it preserving ignorance.

[@perceptionevidencereason-qn8yw]

Innocence in a mental, bodily / physical, economic, sexual, or legal sense should be preserved. Without preserving these things, people become corrupt, traumatized and violated. Even destroyed. Integrity, arguably even more important than feelings or freedom becomes lost.

[@PinkyToeThief]

I relate to the example about the boy bathing himself very much. I'm 20 years old and was raised with strict rules against privacy, boundaries, and independence. I wasn't allowed to want time alone, change my clothes in private, or lock doors because if I was hiding my body, it meant I was doing something wrong. Maybe I had a tattoo or piercing I wasn't allowed to get, and if that wasn't the case, I should have no problem with my mom walking in while I change. If I had to lock the door while taking a shit, that meant I was hiding something. Maybe I was secretly smoking weed, or drinking from a secret stash of alcohol I kept in the bathroom. Maybe I was possessed by perversion to watch porn and masturbate every time I stepped into the bathroom. For some reason privacy and boundaries was always refered to as "keeping secrets from your mother," and she saw it as a threat. I never knew you had to knock on people's doors before entering until I visited a friend's house for the first time. And the example about the girl with the dove tattoo. I was never able to dress myself growing up until I stopped wearing things that I didn't buy by myself with my own money. If I pointed out a pair of shoes I liked, I was told they look manly and will be ugly on me. If I wanted to wear a t shirt with a cool design on it, I was told I was too young and would look "grown" with it on instead of something more childish, cute, and flattering. If my mom picked out clothes I didn't like, I had to explain what I didn't like about it so she could find something similar. If I simply thought it was ugly, that didn't matter because she didn't think it was ugly. But if I liked something she didn't, I wasn't allowed to buy it. When (at around 18 years old) I started wearing clothes I felt more comfortable in, my mom told me I was being rebellious and disrespectful. She thinks I'm going through a late rebellious teen phase in my twenties and I'm going out of my way to look offensive just to spite her.

[@johnjamele]

My sister has been living in a house left to my parents for 35 years, or since she was in her mid-twenties. She has paid almost no rent for all these years, while my mother has paid the property tax, appliance repairs, electric and water bills as if she's a real landlord. My mother has also paid to get her car fixed, and replacement cars when needed. Last year she paid out more than a thousand dollars when her dog was attacked by another and needed surgery. My mother takes my sister on beach vacations, pays for her hotel rooms when she goes to weddings out of town, and basically just bleeds money at her. My sister is an obese infant who has held part-time jobs her entire life and believes that she cares about Mom more than any of us and does more than any of us for her while bleeding her of money she should be using to care for my father, who has dementia, and herself. My sister has never saved a dime, and when my mother encouraged her to buy the house she's squatted in for 35 years for half the market value, could not come up with a down payment and has bad credit so can't get a bank loan-- so my mother will probably end up giving her the house, and then continue to pay the bills. My sister turned 62 last year and instantly signed up for Social Security, assuring that she will be a financial dependent for my mother for as long as they both live. This is the very definition of infantilisation, as my sister will be utterly helpless when my mom is gone. This has been explained to my mother by her other children for four decades, but nothing ever changes. It's heartbreaking.

[@g_vost]

though this isnt exactly what theramin explained in the video, it still demonstrates the same concept - the parent remaining in a higher-up role throughout the entire relationship. but rather than the parent demanding that the child remains obedient, the child demands the parent to continue to parent, even when the child is capable of living an independent life.

[@PeninsulaPaintings]

Yup, my mother does this - I've broken away a bit, but I'm still under her thumb at nearly 27 years old. She has convinced me that I'm helpless without her, and not smart enough to do things on my own. I have no clue how to go about taxes, bills, mortgages, getting good insurance, getting a loan, running a business if I wanted to, and other essential adult things. I live in a house she owns, and she talks about buying a unit for me in the future, because she has all but admitted she's lost hope that I'll be able to earn one myself. It has led me down a path of panic attacks and a suffocatingly small comfort zone. I can't trust my own decisions; as she scrutinizes every one of them, and she's constantly doing things for me without teaching me how it's done. I didn't even learn how to use a washing machine until I was 25, or cook for myself until I was 20. She calls me dense or slow if I mess up something, picks out my clothes for events, and still tells me how to act in public for things like interviews and whatnot; as if I'm a kindergartner on her first day. Jokes on her though, I've recently made the independent decision to get myself vaccinated despite her ridiculous anti-vax views. So, slowly...i'm crawling out of her grip.

[@Zeeno]

What you're describing is called "economic out-patient care". Its when a parent provides economic support when their child should already be out of the 'hospital'. Kids like this end up being under achievers and doing little for themselves or society

[@johnjamele]

They tried this on all five of us, but only one other sibling has remained somewhat financially dependent. Sadly, my sister's daughter has gone down the same path of being tied financially to her grandmother- cars, student loan payments, vet bills... and when the rest of us tell her that she has to stop she replies "I do things for all of you, I WANT to." She then promises to stop, stops nothing, and openly lies about it. I have no idea what my sister and her daughter are going to do when Mom and Dad pass, because they've never had to take care of themselves.

[@Zeeno]

@@johnjamele If i were you id be setting my boundaries now... you dont want her to think you inherit that responsibility

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

I felt that moment when a parent finds out about your sexuality and punishes you for it. I was told by my therapist at the time to keep a journal. So after I had lost my virginity, I wrote it down along with my feelings. A few weeks later, I couldn't find my journal and thought I had misplaced it, later on in the evening, my parents sat me down at the table preceded to bring out my journal and chastise me for being sexually immoral. Needless to say, I stopped expressing my thoughts or feelings about anything with substance to people for a long time, and it took over a decade to mend the relationship with my parents, Alot of it from that one instance of broken trust.

[@TheraminTrees]

And parents wonder why they know nothing about their children's lives.

[@sterlingwalters7521]

I wait patiently every two to three months for these. I go to bed with these playing in the background, you're the best quality atheist KZbinr. I am and will always be a fan of your work.

[@pyriticbatman88]

Same here he’s got such a calming voice!

[@julianfogel5635]

One thing missing from this video is mentioning that sometimes the child who allows this kind of abuse to continue has entered into the abuser's implicit bargain: you promise to always be my little child and I promise to always take care of your needs. While in extreme cases the victim may not have much choice in the matter, in milder more ordinary cases the victim must accept that they are reaping the benefits of the arrangement, and they also have a responsibility to take action to put an end to the abuse by breaking the contract, distancing themselves from the abuser, and accepting that the benefits they received will come to an end.

[@mvvvnvnnm1081]

This is literally my life. I feel paralised.

[@Akira625]

The moment I get an alert about a new TheraminTrees video, I come a-runnin'!

[@musiqal333]

Me too.

[@steggyweggy]

Doesn’t everyone!?

[@musiqal333]

@Donkey Bellerin Me too! I must admit do the same thing, even when I have a few hours of sleep time. I can listen to his works for hours!

[@F00ls44]

Me too thank you very much for your essential work

[@GiftSparks]

@Donkey Bellerin Oh my -- yes-- you can melt in his voice!

[@narsil1984]

Thank you for the part about partner sleeping arrangements at parents. That one contributed greatly to the hardest breakup of my life. My partner and I met at university, she used to be a Jehovah's witness but her parents and brothers still were. The first time I met her parents, I had to pretend I was "just a friend" and that we were taking a trip together as such. Im not sure they believed us - everyone played along. Before leaving, we spent a night at her parents' house and, of course, were in different bedrooms. Some weeks later, we made our relationship open (to them, it was open to our friends and my family before). To their credit, her family was very friendly, accepted me at their house and we had good times together, never having a real argument. I'd made it clear from the start I wasnt interested in their religion and I didnt engage in fights about it either - despite many weird moments, especially the whole creationism stuff I encounted then for the first time: living in France, I didnt know at 21 that anyone in the world still believed it to be 7000 years old or so, nor all the other nonsense. For the following months and years, whenever we'd visit her parents' place (which was still her official home for about half that time), we'd have to sleep in different beds. What I found very weird about my partner then was how much she still accepted her parents' religion and the limitations it put on her. She never complained about those restrictions and disliked it when I seemed to be ... unhappy about them. The actual crisis happened after her brother had gotten married. During the wedding, the house was full and we had to camp out in the garden. We could then share a tent (!), but her younger brother was also there, so it didnt really feel so ground breaking. Soon after, her parents wanted to take us all on a trip for a week or weekend, I forget which. It was a really nice gesture and Im sure there were no nasty intentions. At that point, I actually got along pretty well with the family, especially the father. However, this planned trip lead to the worst fight me and my partner ever had. We were chatting about the trip happily, but I happened to mention I'd dislike the fact his brother and his wife would get to share a room but we would not. After all I said, we were together for longer than they had been - only we werent married. She took this as a criticism of her family as a whole, and to cut it short, it became a quite nasty scene - I was on the defensive, trying to explain away my dislike of the situation being unrelated to my appreciation of the family itself ; she kept accusing me of hating her family. It was bad. We didnt exactly break up over this fight, but it didnt take long afterwards. There were some other problems I wont get into, but looking back on it with alot of time having passed, this fight was as much of a single-event cause as any. And at the bottom of it is the fact we were disconnected on the sleeping arrangements at her parents' : me finding it disrespectful in a way to our relationship, she being fine with it.

[@TheraminTrees]

Yes, it's difficult isn't it when one partner defends unreasonable behaviour on behalf of their family members - especially when they're also being mistreated but don't see it. Twisting justified complaints about mistreatment into expressions of 'hate' is such common deflection - the central point gets completely lost.

[@juju-been]

Jesus. This would be me and my boyfriend if I was still religious and obedient to my parents. Scary to think about.

[@DrownedInExile]

@narsil1984 Good on you for standing your ground.

[@narsil1984]

@Moth’s Mummy We didnt have the budget as students back then. And it wasnt really the reality of the sleeping arrangement that caused the argument, more me being a bit insulted by the implied relative value of a short but married versus an unmarried relationship and her taking offense at criticism of her family, as I think she always supposed I disliked them because of our fundamental difference in belief structure: their "strong" belief vs my pragmatical atheism ; her entire family relatively simple background (she was the first uni-educated member of her family actually) versus my middle class family where everyone is/was expected to have some sort of university degree by the end of their studies.

[@narsil1984]

@Lexi 93 Pretty judgemental, based on the account I gave tbf. I dont think I said I didnt respect their wishes, we abided by them for years. I dont know where you're from, but these sorts of things are viewed as pretty extreme where I live(d). This was my first exposure to religious extremists and while I got along with them on a personal level, I can reflect now on the strain this stuff caused. Besides, it wasnt aboug "banging" at their place and I didnt make it a major issue. As I think Ive said, it came up as a discussion about *feeling* this arrangement was putting a ranking on relationship with or without marriage. Again, if you're from a place that considers marriage a very big deal, this may be something you agree with. Here, many people never marry and living together for years or decades without marriage is no problem anymore to the vast majority of people. And to reiterate the key point: it never was about having to "do" anything specific at their place, it was me feeling that their attitude towards our relationship didnt consider it as valuable as a married relationship, I expressed those feelings (not a desire to demand we bang at her parents' house) and that lead to an argument once.

[@newrecru1t]

*There's one thing that Covid-19 can't cancel:* _Another high-quality TheraminTrees video._

[@Snow-sx5ev]

Take that Corona virus!

[@Poopfingers345]

Funny... now we're all being infantilized by government. Most are all for it. If you surrender your freedoms for safety you'll end up with neither freedom nor safety.

[@edisonhauptman6886]

This topic came up at a wonderful time for me. I'm at the start of a break from college in which I'll be spending a lot of time with my family, and in recent past years I've experienced a few similar tactics. This has thankfully improved in recent months, as it becomes more and more clear that I am competent, but in either case, it is nice to get some perspective on the problems that used to baffle me ("I gave you life!"), and hopefully shut them down if they come up again. Thank you for all of your work.

[@chloerogers9488]

This helped me for the same reason. I actually considered staying in my dorm even though I’d be in a ghost town. Upon viewing this, I feel a lot calmer. It won’t change behavior, but my reaction will at least come from a place of understanding.

[@Qrr0wned]

I just realized I've been infantilized by both my parents during nearly the entirety of my child and adolescent years. It all makes sense now. Thank you

[@almogz9486]

7:35 hit me hard my father used to this whenever i would reject his unhelpfull help he would freak out lashing out at me either saying the exact same words "if you dont want help with x then i wont help with anything". or just tear down the door as he once did. he threatned to break every thing i care for and told me to open the door in the end i opened out of fear and he seperated the door from its frame told me i was abusing my privacy (all i did was not listen to one of his crazy requests and went to my room in protest). and took the door to his room which i later reattached it myself and when he tried to help with that he acted surprised when i was angry and would never accept help from him. luckly my mother and him divorced last year and he lives out of my state since he is amoung other things a tour guide and now he is stranded there because of corona all of the flights to my country are cancelled so he wont come here soon. sadly when he is here i have to pretend to be in good terms with him or he could say that i reject him as a parent and wont pay my mother which she needs to be able to take care of us (my mother is ok we have our differences but she isnt in nay way abusive) edit: my dad seems to be hitting every single mark he consistently witheld credit if i failed a test it was because i havent trained well enough the only way to train well enough was to train 10 hours a day with him or if he was unknowledgeable on the subject a private tutor. If i succeeded he attributed it to luck since i obviously havent trained enough to be prepared for the test so i clearly just got lucky and he kept being surprised of how much my "luck" was holding on and kept telling me it wont last forever. Edit2: while he did scare me a bit of the outside world he didnt seem to have a problem with the idea i will one day leave home and be on my own sexuality was never a subject at home and he didnt wallow in the past because he didnt do anything my sister told me that he told her that i wasnt agreed upon that my mother wanted me but he didnt (my mother confirmed its lies and looking at the record my dad lies a lot my mother doesnt) he was at work in most of my childhood and admitted to me later it was a choice to avoid me my mother said he constantly disregarded me in early childhood and wanted things with my mother to go on as it was before . so my dad has no good deeds of the past to hold over my head.

[@undeadpresident]

Sounds like a fucking nightmare!

[@almogz9486]

@@undeadpresident it was

[@ExterminatorElite]

This video gave me an eerie sinking feeling about my own upbringing. I think that means this is well done.

[@ViewingChaos]

Nice profile picture...

[@alicebecker2212]

Wow, I can’t even begin to describe what your videos do for me. I’m sitting here, shaking and crying out of sheer relief because everything suddenly makes sense to me… everything falls into place! I’ve left my very abusive parents 14 years ago, broke off all contact 11 years ago, i went through extensive therapy, got sober, the works! But it always felt i was somehow still bound to them until this very moment. You gave me my power back, thank you so SO much!!!

[@graemesutton2919]

'The sheep spend their lives in fear of the wolf. Only to be eaten by the shepherd.'

[@arenkai]

Hello, As a young adult, I am absolutely terrified of parenthood. There is so much that I could do wrong and I could end up ruining that individual's life without realising it. Your video helped me put some ideas in order, thank you. I have friends that need to see this video given their situation. Is there a way to get a transcript so I can translate it in French for them ? (or if someone is already working on subtitles, when can we expect them ?) Thank you for your work !

[@musiqal333]

@Jakub Klimczak sometimes certain languages are not available as text for some of the videos. I know. I've tried with many of his videos. Some have subtitles in one ensemble of languages. Others don't. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@alphamikeomega5728]

@Jakub Klimczak I think subtitles are only automatic where they're in the language of the video. For foreign-language subtitles, the channel owner has to let users create and amend them, then users have to translate. An initial translation is quite possibly created automatically once a translator chooses to start their work.

[@dreamdiction]

Look at the mess the world is in, you have no power to create the world your children are forced to live in, therefore you ruin your children's lives just by having them.

[@Zift_Ylrhavic_Resfear]

If you're afraid of being a bad parent, then i have the perfect videos for you (in French). The guy is a psychologist that follows science, which you can check by looking up the sources he gives at the end of his videos. Here are the most important ones, but don't hesitate to check out his channel : kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHbcm2d3ibyNr8k (part 1, 12 min) kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpDXgJZ5bZmsn6M (part 2, 22 min) kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5qZdo1njcR1e5o (part 3, 20 min) And here is the playlist with all his videos relevant to children : kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZerp2WPerlmfqs

[@goreae]

The auto-generated subtitles are often laden with errors as voice recognition can only be so accurate. It's much better with a channel like Theramintrees where it's very clearly spoken and non-emotional. It makes it very easy to pick up so the errors should be rather minor and easy to patch up. It's very easy to grab the auto-generated transcript. Probably doesn't work on mobile, but yeah. Just click the gear icon in the video, go to subtitles, add subtitles/translation, then under the actions dropdown, there's a download button. This downloads a sbv file complete with timestamps. It's intended to make editing the file easier if you're using a program like subtitle edit or just don't want to use youtube's editor, but it works a treat as a transcript. This is just a normal text file so you can open it with notepad or notepad++ no problem. And if you want to mass-delete the timestamps, it's not difficult if you have notepad++. In the replace menu, make sure the regular expressions option is selected and replace "0:....................." with nothing. That'll just delete all the timestamps nice and quick.

[@takeoffyourblinkers]

Infantilisation has reached its ugly claws into so many more aspects of todays world, especially in the last couple of decades. Or maybe it just isn't as covert as it used to be. 😕

[@SolarScion]

I'd say we're seeing more adjuct artefacts of parents' infantilization of their children (if infantilisation itself hasn't increased in the past couple of generations), evidenced by things like participation trophies, which are for the infantilizing parents who put their kids through sports, etc., for their own vicarious ego boost. I think you may be right about organizations and corporations infantilizing society overall having increased, though. People seem to have always acted like sheep when interacting with mass media, but "the customer is always right" certainly seems to be a trend of further infantilisation in retail/food service. Though the tendency does seem to be the opposite in the entertainment industry, where the current strategy is to create a narrative where anyone who is critical of [insert franchise property] is [insert current cultural boogeyman].

[@Cherry-kc8dm]

3 min into this video & im bawling my eyes out because I finally feel seen, heard…. Like dang someone finally gets it!!! The amount of times I tried explaining how my parents made me feel & for it to get shut down by others made me shrink even more….. I don’t have to shrink while watching your videos I not only feel seen, heard, understood but welcomed…. I never felt welcomed a day before in my life and I’m 32 years old…. Thank you so much for what you do!!!

[@greenisbest6441]

Edna mode was right! No capes! Honestly though I love your videos and your effort to make well educated and useful arguments against the indoctrination of abusers and religious groups.

[@user-eu2me4bp7j]

25:10 “Humans are kept in deliberate ignorance and obligated to obey without comprehension” 😭 Yup!!!!

[@avalonvalley2722]

Jfc i swear these vids have done more for my understanding and self esteem than years of therapy. Its mindblowing after a lifetime of infantilisation and narcissistic abuse to be told here that "you are entitled to respect"... wow its such an alien concept 😳 please keep making these vids, ive got a LOT left to learn 💗

[@partyboi9082]

i know this is an old video, but these have been really helpful for me as i go through therapy. the use of real scenarios and examples, with visuals, is something that a lot of other informative videos just don’t have, and it makes them harder to follow along with. i could hear about what infantilization entails all day long, but without examples like the ones in this video, i probably wouldn’t actually connect the dots to real life. thanks for sharing this stuff in a way that’s easy to understand!

[@kellybmackenzie]

The Dominic example (06:56) is *exactly* what my mother did to me, literally, word by word, except I was 10 when it happened. She was also extremely inappropriate towards me all of the time throughout my entire childhood in gross ways I will not describe in this comment section. This video made me cry so much. Thank you for making this video.

[@horsepowermultimedia]

It is a sad fact that children are being oppressed and discriminated under the noses of the community and the government, even in the supposed land of the free. Children who stand up for their rights as an individual are beaten down and destroyed while children who are nothing but cattle to the slaughter are rewarded. The parents who are supposed to prepare their kids for the world are instead molding them in copies of themselves to boost their unforgiving egos. Those poor kids can't openly be themselves and slowly, they lose their hopes, their dreams, and their original personalities. In adolescence, their hopelessness turns to rage as the children make their final cry for freedom before they are ruthlessly decimated for the last time and finished off. In adulthood, many of those kids have lost. They have become their slave masters, made only to continue the cycle of oppression that makes childhood a hidden pain.

[@Tabby3456]

" common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down in the mind before you reach eighteen" -Albert Einstein

[@jdsorgenkinder1261]

TheraminTrees... I no longer remember how it was that I happened upon your channel, but whether it was the KZbin algorithm, a recommendation from some other channel, or I found you myself, I'm immensely thankful for your videos. They are enormously soothing and always informative, and even if I come into one with background knowledge of the matter at hand, I find that you have a way of putting things that often reframes what I know in a new light, which is undoubtedly a gift years of training and empathy have bestowed upon you. That being said, this video was, personally, the hardest hitting of the ones I've watched. My parents transplanted our family to the USA when I was very young - so young, in fact, that the only memories I have before America are a brief flash of an unpleasant plane experience, watching a sandstorm from high up in a Dubai building, and the knowledge of a towering green gate from my country of birth. (I don't remember the gate anymore, but I know I did, once.) Even before I was born, my parents' relationship was riddled with issues, and my mother in particular had had a particularly traumatic past. They clung to each other the way two lonely people did, but didn't succeed in ameliorating each other's suffering. On the contrary, they resented - even loathed - each other. So it was that I grew up in an almost single-parent household for a while. In the absence of my father figure, I became intimately familiar with the dynamic you covered in this video essay - parentification. When my younger siblings were born (something that was pinned on me, by the way, because I had "asked for them"), the stress levels in our household shot up well past the levels they had been in my early childhood. My mother, friendless in this foreign country and overburdened by everything else, began pouring her sorrows into me, her eldest son. She exposed me to spiteful, hours (yes, plural)-long tirades against my father, her family, everything that had happened to her. She told me that my father had used her as a whore to warm his bed, a confusing contrast to the gentle man I *did* know when he was around. She said a great deal many other things not fit to publish on KZbin. And then, when I was old enough to start questioning, she turned on me, too. Said I was spiteful, that I had only ever seen her as the villain. She martyred herself at every possible juncture - I brought you to this country, I gave you life, I MADE you, you owe everything to me. I was disallowed credit for the prestigious high school and college scholarship I managed to enrol in, because she had found them for me. Never mind that teachers had always sung my praises, especially when it came to writing. Never mind that I graduated debt free - something so few people can say today. I came out of it with scars. 27 have remained flesh. I want to say, like so many others, that things got better. In some respects, they did. I've surrounded myself with people (mostly online) that appreciate my efforts, the things I have to offer. When I manage to do things, I'm a highly competent adult, and I've enjoyed some local prestige in the research I specialise in. But because I have an exceedingly rare visa status that doesn't allow me a working permit, I haven't been able to find a job that will allow me to gain the financial independence I want from my parents (with whom I have lived since 2017), and on top of it, said status is dependent upon my father's, which may expire next year. And then I'll have to go "home." To a country I've never known. To a people I've never known. An unfortunate potpourri of things - including the current administration and pandemic - made this possible, but guess who my mother blames for my difficulty succeeding? Me. Because I should have listened to her and become a doctor or physical therapist. Now I'm destined to be shipped back home as a living reminder of her failure to succeed or to scrub floors in rich people's houses, apparently. (Your double bind video helped immensely in this regard.) The things I've achieved, the person I am, these are moot to her. She forces her physical affection - hugs and kisses - upon me, although I'm uncomfortable with it. She says she's allowed to do it because I'm her child. She uses names I don't like to be called with me. She used to restrict me from dating and was strict with a partner I had in high school, but has since turned around and insists multiple times a week that it was "true love" and I should get back together with them... although they now have a girlfriend and we're good friends who agree that romantically, we were ill-fitted. I apologise. I don't mean to dump my life story in your comments, or to pull a "woe is me." I suppose I'm just frustrated, being an adult child, that I have nowhere to go. I'm almost a year out of college, currently in graduate school, and I'm still treated this way - but my mother has no self-awareness, thinks this has happened to me due to a lack of faith in God and my own rebellion. This video struck a chord with me. So... thanks. Again.

[@TheraminTrees]

Thank you for sharing your story here. So many resonant experiences. Comes to something, doesn't it, when the people we'd expect to be our biggest champions are the biggest drain, using us to work out their unresolved issues and disorders. It sounds like some of your teachers recognised your achievements and the person you are - as well as your online mates. In my own life I've been lucky enough to have a twin brother who witnessed all the craziness. Those islands of sanity - people who really see you - make all the difference sometimes don't they. I hope you're able to find some stability in the coming months - and I wish you well in carving out your own life.

[@jdsorgenkinder1261]

@@TheraminTrees Thank you. Yes, they have been a pillar of support from me, and I'm glad you two had each other. Each day I have to remind myself that I was loved and valued where my mother often was not. The really cruel thing, I think, is that I can see glimmers of genuine humanity within her when the shields come down... I want to love my mother, but she weaponises my vulnerability against me without a second thought. It's caused me so much distress that I can't allow myself to love my own parent, even though deep down, I do. I look forward to more of your content! It's invaluable (in the good sense, lol).

[@soumyabandaru6383]

This video opened my eyes. When i express my disbelief in religion or show opinions that are different from my mother she immediately pulls the "you're too young to know what you're talking about" card.

[@pingu8092]

You have no idea how much this has helped me in my life. I am forever grateful to you for making these videos. Know that you have allowed one more person to free themselves from the bonds of infantilization.

[@ARedMagicMarker]

My mother referred to me growing up, getting the heck out of dodge and moving out of state as "running away." I was 18, about to turn 19. =.= My mother was also a staunch traditionalist, sexist towards her own gender (and proudly so, that's not very comforting for me, her daughter, or her two other girls). I will say this, I have never, ever in my life met a narc who wasn't sexist, racist, homophobic, or all of the above. My mother is two of these things, and going by the anti gay propaganda I hear about her posting around her town, it's only gotten worse with age. My two sisters moved away, but they were coaxed, or shall I say effectively "hoovered" back across the country over mother's (and all narc parent's) favorite golden tool: Skype. She would not shut up about Skype. Skype this, Skype that. She had to have said Skype like 200 times the last time I visited her, not counting her calls and texts before I went no contact. My sisters are still living with her in nursery-like rooms at her house. She even caused my youngest sister to miscarry through the crippling stress of trapping her in the house in a literal nursery she excitedly made for the impending baby. My sisters have put on weight, wear the most hideous, flowery, mumu granny clothes mother picks out for them at Goodwill while she shops designer. But oh, she found her "big girls" such a bargain, and for their sizes too... and that makes her a good mother. My sisters also quit their careers. My mother couldn't stand me while I was growing up, because I knew what she was doing and called her out on it. I didn't know exactly what it was called, but it always just felt....off. However, I always fought against it kicking and screaming, or either trying to outsmart or work a way around the crazy, because that's just the kind of person I am. If I know something is wrong, I don't bow down to it. Something in my brain won't allow it. Anytime she knew she wasn't going to win with the whole infantilisation, she just went on to my other sisters, and demonized me. Her favorite insults to me were "I know you couldn't get the full results I know you could, but you didn't trust me, so now you're gonna pay for it, and I'm glad." All that, even when I did a good job, it was still bad. Or her other favorites, "you're so rebellious, you think you're so smart, miss know-it-all, pride comes before the fall, okay miss, I-know-what's-best-for-me. When you fail, don't come crawling back to me, loser, I know you will", or, " with that high and mighty attitude, you're not going to make it past 40 like so-and-so's prideful daughter." Then as soon as she said those things, it's like a light came into her dull eyes for a second, knew what she said was messed up for the briefest second, then she tried to play victim. She'd go on to say that I must think she's the Wicked Witch of the West, and how I'm going to hold it against her. Damn right I am. When I got married, she called me and played the victim, telling me that she couldn't "imagine" what I was saying to my in-laws about her. Oh, and my sexuality was also feverishly denied. She was so convinced that I was molested as a child, that she was willing to start a smear campaign against my lesbian aunt Jane, because obviously she was "the one". My mother was literally fixing to paint aunt Jane as an incestuous child molester, and gleefully tries to have her day care center license taken way just because of my orientation. No proof, no evidence, never mind that aunt Jane rarely visited and was clear across the country the whole time. I told my mother that aunt Jane could seriously come after her in court for that kind of slander and defamation, and she only stopped because she was paranoid about her squeaky clean image. It let me know that she must have know her claims were b.s, because if she were that concerned, and she truly felt it happened, she'd still press to have the truth exposed. She just wanted to wreak havoc and cause loss to someone's livelihood, take down a gay person, and smear their names...which is just another sport to her. No second thoughts for her there. Anytime she did someone harm, she'd happily sing praise and worship songs (ironically), and her voice is terrible, but she thinks she's a diva. She'd even try and get us to join in, but I just found it creepy. Ever listen to your parent come home crying after their work, holding you hostage to listen to them cry for 3 hours because everyone avoids them, hates them, doesn't trust them, or doesn't "understand" them? And you know exactly why too, but you're supposed to convince them that it's the other people who are wrong? Ever know that you're supposed to root for them when they ruin yet another person's day, or gets someone fired for the stupidest reason or imagined slight? Pretend not to be horrified when they lean back, close their eyes and look like they just had a chocolate covered orgasm when they wonder just how the terminated employee's poor children will fare? Yeah, that was my childhood. However, on the other hand, she always had these sob stories about how she was raped, which I believed, until she was strangely bringing it up for stupid things, or trying to one-up somebody for anything. Like times that I got a "B" or "B-" on my test on some occasions, so I had to sit and listen to her almost...brag about her rape experience, and how I should be inspired and...use it to...push myself to be better? Because she was raped? Like it was so bizarre. Like hello? Yes, rape is horrible, but WHAT on a rainbow, Saturn-ringed JUPITER does rape have to do with me not getting an "A" on a test? When I'm trying to ace a test, the last thing I want to think about is my mother getting raped of all things. Like, come on, seriously, what the actual fuck? I believed her story until I noticed that she never pinpointed the culprit, though god already forgave him. Apparently. Then on some days, she said that god never forgave him because he didn't deserve forgiveness for invading her holy temple. Her story always changed to how she was raped as a girl, then as an adult, it changed to what state it happened in, then to the point where she was never raped at all, only fondled, because she was too strong to be raped, and it was by the hand of god that she escaped. Full of baloney as usual. Word got out that I thought her rape fable was baloney. Cue the rage, stomping and throwing things. I haven't talked to that lady (mom) in over 10 years. Good riddance. My sister's and my mother's current 7th or 8th or so husband have my sympathies, but if they refuse to see, it's not my job to swoop in and "save" them. I can kind of get why my sisters stick behind. Mother is very well off and cares for them rent-free. All they have to do is wait on her and praise her 24/7. She literally used to call us her little young ladies in waiting. She'll throw little trinkets their way like her hand-me-down jewelry or her old car, while she gets new jewelry and new cars, and they should be grateful. Only until something is wrong with something, or is out of fashion will she gift it to my sisters. Besides, every time I tried to talk to them about what our mother was doing, she would just corner me and try to talk my ear off for 3 hours about "corrupting" her children, and how I was "possessed." (Yes, even though we are not even young adults anymore, we are still referred to as "the children". She would always flash her eyes wide open, bare her teeth, and growl as she talked and ranted about it. Cringy, though I'm sure she was aiming for intimidating). In this case, it was every woman for herself. I got out and ran for my life and sanity. My mother is a very, very sick, twisted and delusional individual who just so happened to be passing my particular egg through her Fallopian tubes at a specific time before she got pregnant with me, but that isn't my fault. If I ever have kids, I'm just gonna take everything my mother did...and...NOT do that. XD

[@micaelgarcia1576]

Wow, I am glad my mother is the exact opposite; I always knew those people existed, but it's just hard to believe that someone is that messed-up.

[@pansepot1490]

Wow, just wow. Haven’t talked to her in ten years and yet you still sound so hurt and in pain and angry as if it had happened yesterday. I sincerely hope it’s just the video that has brought back old feelings and you don’t think about that in your daily life. Dwelling on those things can easily consume you from inside. Try to forget (or at least don’t think) about your mom and enjoy your freedom. All the best. 👍

[@ARedMagicMarker]

Lol, no, not hurt or in pain. I am just very passionate about narc awareness, and since I grew up with one, I talk about my experiences in the right setting. Narcs love to infantilise. Don't worry, I'm a writer and my writing style is very...how some people say....passionate? Wordy? So don't take it as me being bitter and letting it eat me up, it's just that the world needs to know about these people. I fight tooth and nail against people like this when they show themselves and cause a mess. I talk about my experiences in case someone is going through the same thing, so they can know they are not alone, they are not going crazy, and that yes, whomever is doing this b.s to them is ka ka koo koo. I chat with a lot of people who may be trapped with narcs or are not old enough to leave them. I help them with staying cool, gathering and hiding their resources bit by bit, I sometimes have a one on one with them on just how to handle narcs by each of their unique situations, or I just serve as a listener. It's not just about me. I've seen my mother and people like her break people and destroy so many innocent lives. How I fight against people like them is by simply talking in vivid depth about every, single, vile, despicable thing they have done to people, have done to people I care about, have done to people who didn't deserve what a narc or group of narcs did to them, and what I had to go through. I also help their supply that they are draining completely dry to break free. That is my vengeance. Taking away their supply, and once I got their numbers, making it damn well hard as f for them to gain new supply to use and torment. I couldn't give a single shit about a narc, however, I do give a shit about bad people hurting and tormenting good people for absolutely no reason. Call it "halo effect" or "virtue signaling/ moral b.s." all you want to, but this is what I was made for. I'm glad I grew up with a narc. I know just how to stop them, spot them, or at least help take away the supply they have acquired. This can be one person, their own child, or a whole neighborhood, I don't care, I'm a Determinator when it comes to these mental, gleefully destructive, insufferable, insipid, chaotic freaks of nature. I absolutely and utterly despise narcs, and I don't care if they get off on this negative emotion aimed their way. I use this distaste of them and their ways to get myself, and others the hell away from them.

[@ARedMagicMarker]

​@@micaelgarcia1576 Yup, you were lucky, people who were lucky have no idea, and that's why I share my experiences. People who have never run into or were never born to these kinds of parents can actually play down or not believe it...because they've never seen it. Sometimes they'll think whistle blowers are lying, because it sounds so absurd. And it does...but it happens. The world needs to know these people are lurking, reproducing and putting their kids through it. I notice that those kinds of people are the most desperate and feverish to have families and grand kids by any means necessary. That means they'll be on their best behavior to try and charm their sperm and egg donors....I mean darling future spouses, because most are aware enough that no one in their right mind would shack up with their nature if they're not being held at gunpoint, or being forced or blackmailed. So why do these folks want families so fecking badly? Why do they romanticize the good ol days of staunch family traditionalism, lots of kids who are carbon copies of them or else, and iron fist values? I know why. Because why be burdened with looking for your supply, especially in a more narc aware world, when you can make it at home? It's that just that simple. It's not about bitterness or hurt, it's about awareness. I'm one tough cookie, so it's not about my fee-fee's, it's just that I lived through my mom's sickness, and even I'm STILL in disbelief that these people exist. XD

[@fluffycritter]

Wow, our backstories aren’t the same but it’s amazing how many things we have in common. My own mom uses the fact I gained independence as soon as I could as a strike against me and tries to convince me that I didn’t know what I was doing and therefore don’t know what I’m doing and can’t take care of myself effectively. And there were a few months I had to move back in with her due to a temporary setback (that she manufactured) that she still thinks of as being her “bailing me out.” Also she’s constantly convincing herself and others that I was molested as a child as a reason to explain my own sexuality, and built up an incredible work of very specific fiction in her brain that she refuses to let go of, 30 years later. My younger brother has managed to escape her orbit and I envy him so much.

[@yulogicarchive]

The various symbols of danger under the parent-ruler figures was a nice touch.

[@m3ntalbird]

I would love a video covering parentification, as someone who grew up in that environment. Fantastic video overall, id love to see more videos like this.

[@em-xy8jo]

All of your videos really seem to resonate with me, thank you. I realized recently I was growing up in a situation without boundaries, where my mother always had done everything for me and had refused to speak to me when I tried to do things on my own, such as cleaning and cooking, because I was "disrespecting her role as a stay at home mom". It kept me from being able to do basic tasks for years, leaving me clueless and terrified as I grew. Just recently my sister told me how she has crippling OCD and was diagnosed before I was born, and every piece fell into place. Every point of this video just hits home. Thank you, Theramin, it means a lot that you bring these important issues to light.

[@salometipsandtricks2786]

Write down on a note. Wash dishes, sweep flood, take out trash, pick up things and check inventory ( toilet paper restocking in restroom) as daily habit. Next write Wash clothes on Saturday. You got the basic for house keeping. After that you can decorate with flowers on table or pictures on walls. It's not that big deal. After you can learn to cook simple things like rice and soup. See not that hard. It's not too late.

[@MunchkinWheels]

Thank you for making this video. As someone who grew up with this form of abuse, this shows truly opened my eyes to the fact that I'm not alone. The more I watched, tears formed in my eyes as everything you said clicked. It's nice to see that I'm not just "insane," as I've been told for years. Truly, thank you.

[@inti665]

Your videos are great, thank you so much. You really inspire us to improve as persons.

[@negy2570]

Ok, I really appreciate this video and I can totally relate like many others. It seems that we are in the same boat, the ones who realize and the ones who don't. Anyway I need to disagree or point out a few risks of refusing all infantilisation modes, because they have some good effects on maturity. As per your example, when you grow up and decide to live with your same-sex partner or unmarried in traditional cultures, nobody has a right to tell you out but you're an adult, you build your own household where you and other adults can make the rules. If you go visiting your parents you need to stick to some rules in their home, because you're not a rebellious and crying kid anymore and no adult has an obligation to comply to your personal rules in their own home. You go from the abused to the abuser. It's a matter of boundaries. A meeting point needs to be found that nobody feels smaller or neglected. My own perception is that our society is mostly made of crying baby-adults who scream for freedom without really knowing what freedom is, often becoming slaves of other ideologies without even realising it. I guess that many people now around 20-30 have been educated into being too much of themselves as if they're more important than others. Commercials are all about "be yourself!" ok, but what are you? How many people could honestly answer "well, I'm actually a grownup @§§hole brat?" As an adult you need to set good boundaries where they need to be. No exact truth, just understand case by case. In this moment in many countries the scream of freedom is often pointless and harmful to others and it gets politically manipulated by political groups who are just trying to use people in numbers to push their agenda with attached ideologies. The crying baby-adults easily jump on that wagon. They think they know, but thinking of knowing is just yet another creed unbased in reality. It's actually a new religion.

[@Cubelarooso]

You briefly touched upon something that has become very relevant recently: learning to resolve conflicts personally, without calling in outside authorities. Also the fact that procreation is an inherently selfish, boundary-trampling act, that ironically eradicates any chance of innocence.

[@trudojo]

Holy shit dude. I don't think anyone else has dropped this bomb in quite this way. Carl Jung, Robert Green and Jordan Peterson are the only ones I've even heard mention it. None of them quite so comprehensively. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Respect.

[@thatonepianoguy_]

This video was painful to watch in the best way. Thank you for the catharsis …

[@ihateunicorns867]

I’ve watched quite a few of your videos now. They are very helpful. It’s like you actually know my mum. It’s very reassuring to learn how so many of her actions were abuse. I haven’t seen her for over a decade now. I had to cut all contact. I have been ostracised by most of the rest of my family for “making disgusting accusations”.

[@DiamondSan7]

Many many more people should know of your channel. There are so many people who need to hear your words.

[@xepic665]

You really are an inspiration! I feel like your videos should be shown globally to all young people in personal development classes

[@the_hanged_clown]

34:42 reminds an awful lot of the military... "respect me!" ok but why tho? "I have more stripes on my uniform, duh!"

[@fionafiona1146]

I feel this is a aspect where (Canada to Argentina) American police differs from European "Friend and aid" perspective.

[@pH7oslo]

Poor analogy. If you've been in the military you know what kind of respect that's required and why it's necessary (as in life or death).

[@rofl22rofl22]

To be fair, the military often operates in dangerous situations, there isn't always time to set up a table where everyone gets an equal say and gets equal respect. There also might not be time to fight about who's right and who's wrong, which is why you're taught to respect your superiors and their decisions. It's kind of a necessity.

[@the_hanged_clown]

@@pH7oslo and unknown, I've been in the military thank you very much. this was my experience with officers and sergeants alike. sure I can see how that might work in a battlefield situation, but even in that case one can follow orders without first "respecting" the person.

[@undeadpresident]

Militaries are terribly abusive organizations that are basically death cults.

[@etooamill9528]

Mum: I am doing it for your good! Me: But you aren't doing any good to me! Mum:Then I will never help you again. This is sadly what i relate to. And even if she say that she always come back, first to insult me, then to keep sabotaging what i am doing thinking she is helping.

[@missfefeloves]

Omg I finally understood why I was such a rebel growing up. This all makes sense! all my life I was treated like child and an idiot that couldn't think for itself. I was treated the same way by my peers. I always thought it was a demonic curse or something but this video has opened my eyes you're a great therapist theraminethrees❤

[@elizabeth4689]

Thank you for making this video. It's helped me rationalize a lot of behavior in someone who's actively living in this abuse.

[@AzaleaJane]

Link, this is one of my favorite videos of yours so far. I've watched it twice and recommended it to people. The quote "your parents didn't give you life, they gave themselves a child" is priceless. The world needs much, much more material like this -- content supporting people in their recovery from abuse and encouraging them to set boundaries. Proud to be a patron! My money could not be better spent!

[@TheraminTrees]

Hey Azalea! Thank you. That 'I gave you life!' line is so common isn't it. I know even for targets who've escaped abusive situations, those kinds of messages can still play on their minds - perpetuate the drip feed of obligation and guilt. They seem like 'truths' that can't be questioned. I think a big part of recovery is often about discovering the ability to question what seemed unquestionable. Hope all's well with you!

[@neo1559]

Boy am I glad I discovered this channel last night, i've been engrossed ever since! Your content is pure gold. Thank you sir.

[@samanthaf7251]

Terminating all contact saved my life. 🤔😊

[@Dark_Detective]

I've made some parallels to my school. When I was 14 we had to wait outside our classroom until the teachers came, wait outside in a line until a supervisor lets your class inside. These are just the examples that can be easily explained.

[@corinec6850]

You have no idea how long I've been awaiting this video 😁

[@NonDelusional74611]

My wife left me. Part of me is convinced she couldn't deal with our two children (teens by the time she divorced me) having independent lives, and blaming me for being able to. Every time they'd do something she demanded they be punished for, I'd try to find alternative strategies. I think she grew to hate me for fostering a healthy relationship with the next generation, while she only saw continued infantilization as a workable strategy. Well, she's the well-off one. I'm dying in the gutter. She probably sees this as justification for destroying our family.

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

If only family courts would be fucking fair. You aren't in EU I assume.

[@MsPoliteRants]

I think this might be your best essay yet.

[@nazcarcup]

This is the best video on this topic. You just helped THOUSANDS

[@robertkortus]

Man, this video was HEAVY! Brought up some bad memories of both my childhood and time in the Church. It so important that people know about this, though. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.

[@tierneyjunior7114]

Your videos are incredible. Your voice could put me to sleep it’s so soothing -I feel that I am healing and learning so much. Becoming myself rather the version of myself my parents created. Thank you.

[@anettebruvold3909]

I really appreciate the work you do. I recognize myself as a previous 'trespasser' in the name of religion. I have left that religion some years ago, and have worked really hard to get rid of old teachings and doctrines. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder on my religious period. Now I have regained the soundness of mind and the depression have vanished. Thanks for the work you do.

[@allykaman9340]

Thank you. Thank you thank you. No other words will suffice right now. thank you.

[@Hesric]

This made a lot of things clear. Thank you.

[@MxTHRTN]

You do truly outstanding work. Your content is complex but easy to understand. With the wisdom I gain through your channel I was able to identify abusive patterns in my own life. In explaining these themes in so much detail and with examples you make it easy for your viewers to remember the message. Thank you very much! Im here to stay!

[@EDinWAState]

I have often attempted to teach these same points to others but, in the main, I failed because I allowed frustration and anger at the sheer stupidity presented by the listeners. Anger, in my case, started out as a teaching tool but, very soon became a destructive one that alienated me from the rest of the world. perhaps that was my goal all the while? Thank you for presenting these teachings in such a logical and calm tone... I have grown. Thank you.

[@lanceleonhart1362]

So glad this channel was recommended to me.

[@originalhazelgreene]

Excellent video as always. You explain concepts so effectively that any layperson can understand. Thank you!!

[@TristanDecker2017]

I've been watching for a hot minute, and I've known my mother was abusive for a long while. I haven't truly spoken to her in a number of years besides a few passing moments, but I don't want that to be our relationship forever. Hearing about some of these infantilizing behaviours really hit me hard - but now that she hasn't been in my life for nearly 9 years and having explored her behaviour I feel ready to try and develop that relationship again from the ground up, but I'm really not sure where to start. Would you happen to have any insights into how to maintain a positive relationship with an ex-abuser?

[@Nettakrim]

Try not to slip back into an abusive relationship? make sure you set boundaries where you stop? i dont know xD. or as Charlierox said, dont

[@threethrushes]

I haven't seen my ex-abuser (=parent) for five years. I write to the ex-abuser once a year, and speak to her for 60-90 seconds at Christmas. Life is too short to spend it with toxic people.

[@sapphirestarblazer6805]

I have the same advice as those other guys- i wouldn't bother checking in for more than once or twice a year. I personally want to see my father as little as possible anyway.

[@ELee-zv5ud]

Try thinking about her with compassion. She is the way she is because of how she was treated. She once was a tiny child who also was emotionally abused in some way. You can not save her as she has to save herself just as you did. But if you can see her with empathy you may be able to have relationship with her.

[@niffwasau1815]

This video helped me spot how my parental relationship with my mom isn’t healthy, and how she has sabotaged other relationships. I can now say why with this video. Thanks Theremin

[@shelbeyneil1140]

This video is so incredibly well-made and the issues are described perfectly. Thank you!

[@1voluntaryist]

Emotion is often either equated as proof of knowledge, e.g., I feel (know) it, or as blocking cognition, e.g., you're too angry to be objective. I find the distinction here where anger can induce cognition when controlled, but inhibit or completely block cognition when allowed to go uncontrolled, to be born out by my experience. I have used fear and/or anger to motivate a higher mental level, as if it were fuel of/for? thought. And I have "lost it" less than a handful of times in my 77 years and regressed to the level of an infant. The latter was not helpful.

[@SameAsAnyOtherStranger]

Therimin Trees videos are thick with useful perspectives. It's hard to take them in in their entirety when so many points lead to ideas that deserve further consideration. For me, in this one video the idea that micromanagement creates an atmosphere of infantilization illuminates my current situation in way I have been struggling to understand. I am empowered to endure my situation better. Hopefully enough to carry until I can find a more suitable situation.

[@secularforme6377]

this is excellent work, a BIG thumbs up. This should be shown to all new parents to encourage more self awareness of their rolls as teachers and guides.

[@catoticneutral]

I really feel like I should show my parents this, but annoyingly enough I'm afraid to.

[@j.christie2594]

I sent mom this and Other's. She's offended a Little, but won't admit.. Tough.. You can do it, and I encourage.... Just turned 50, this guy helped that long a time in Terror. still in terror, but it's subsided a little..

[@deedlessdeity218]

So much more to this topic than I thought... Explains a lot... fits... and of course it makes me worry more, makes me feel justified in my worry, about the friend I lost to people treat him just like this. The little society/club we built has become a playground of narcissism and infantilisation, with the biggest culprits at the top, and the rest just follows unquestioningly and dismissive of evidence. Because thinking is hard, I suppose? Makes me understand why almost a hundred years ago people were looking away at the atrocities of the red and brown socialists that followed in the coming decades. It's easier to just go with the flow of those with the thickest, most bullying elbows. People want peace - but not the grand peace against a violent war. Instead they only want the personal peace of not having to think, not having to bother, not having to be responsible for their actions or question the people they surround themselves with even in the most obvious or dire of atrocities comitted. The Banality of Evil as Hannah Arendt described it, combines with dangerous bad actors. Then everything spirals down into a living hell where most just seem to try to stay at the top and out of sight to not be targeted by the abusive types they let into power. The safest place for that, is next to them. But I stray into other topics...

[@chaorrottai]

I got this at work. I came in having been in the workforce for 12 years, had a diploma with honors and even then: they insisted that I was a stupid kid who knew nothing about anything. Then the incumbent bullies abused their trust with management to terrorise me and my sense of job security. I want allowed to defend myself in any meeting. Everything the other person said was true because I was automatically lying because I was new. It didn't matter that they had already bullied my supervisors son, it didn't matter that one of them was known to be the shop theif by everyone including management, their character and reputation didn't matter at all. I'm still fighting the damage years later. It's years down the road, I have a new supervisor and I had to threaten to quit. At least my new supervisor isn't a dickhead, knows and can work and has my back.

[@brightorangepants]

Few other channels have such consistent quality and polish, keep up the outstanding work

[@jelenatakeapicture]

Beside it is very well explained with good examples, I will use this opportunity to compliment your visuals. I am following this channel for many years, and it is getting better, and better. In many ways.

[@fuqupal]

This is basically what governments do towards the population. Starting at an early age ofc.

[@j.christie2594]

"The Prince by Machiavelli", some of these tactics are revealed in that book. A classic for Tin-Foil hatter's..

[@rileywern9619]

My mom used to infantilize me a LOT. like there was a point that i was attending a play run by my wife at her middle school and my parents attended that night. I teach piano there as well and its a ton of fun, watching the kids develop their skill is amazing. Anyway, one of those kids from lessons sits right in front of us, and my mom introduces me to this kid as "her baby" and the kid was super confused. Shed done it for a while but i just let it happen cause whatever it doesnt affect anything ignoring it. Well now shes affecting a place i work and other kids, so i had to put a stop to it. She pulled the classic "well youll always be my little baby" to which i finally got to say "well im sad you missed out on me growing up then" Shes done a lot of reflecting since and its been very good, so i encourage yall to talk to whoever is infantilizing you in a polite manner, it can make huge differences

[@janice2558]

Please more videos during lockdown!

[@mikhail.lawley]

I'd be quite interested to hear your thoughts on antinatalism - a philosophy that assigns negative value to birth.

[@pansepot1490]

Personally no problem with it if it’s a personal choice. Toxic if it’s something forced on others.

[@lucioh1575]

@@pansepot1490 Is birthing someone else a personal choice if the other person as a consequence might experience a terrible life and will eventually die? It's not a personal choice if you're causing suffering without consent.

[@guthrie_the_wizard]

If you find these videos as immensely wonderful as I do, please consider supporting with a few bucks on Patreon and sharing.

[@zozipozi]

Thank you so much for posting these videos. These have helped me so dearly with coping with past trauma. I know you won’t see this but still.

[@snakeydais]

Thank you so much for this video. You have managed to sum up, succinctly, what I believe is wrong with the whole human race due to abuse of power from parents, partners, religious and political groups. You have encapsulated the entire mess into an informative and easy to understand video. I wish everyone would see this. Thank you for validating my experience. I'm going to share this far and wide.

[@atathesteelcrownedqueen8070]

I’m not sure what kind of religious background you have, but I’m a Christian and my parents have never tried to keep me week or under control. I don’t want to be kept safe and I listen to descenting opinions all the time. The religions you mentioned fall under the heading of cult and are always controlling.

[@klutterkicker]

I've been slowly starting to realize the narcissistic behaviors of my parents and how I've been raised as a co-dependent to them. I still live with them and I'm over 30, and part of that is the way they've been subtly but consistently undermining my ability to get things done myself, by continuing to tell me that reasonable things will put me in danger or outright taking over anything I need to do. And how they've been going to me for their own emotional support since I was little, and trying to induce me into mediating their arguments and then using what I say as fodder or blowing up when I show the first sign of upset. And all these other ways that they've treated me and my brother like pets instead of people. It's weird to say this but the real problem lately is that half if not most of the time they're so da*n nice and any unusual behaviors (including my own struggles with them and my own mental health issues) just fall into a memory hole immediately after they're finished. So anyway, I appreciate these videos you make TheraminTrees. I know they can be really difficult for you.

[@br-xq1yz]

I would love to see you do a piece on the manipulation and shutting down of the whole world with COVID 19

[@allenquartermane6134]

Your videos have been more educating to me than all the years I spent trying to understand simple psychology to get my degree as a therapist.

[@zenkim6709]

As my best friend Jeff once said, "The purpose of childhood is to prepare for adulthood." The meaning I gathered from this is twofold: children should B expected & allowed 2 grow & mature in all ways -- physically, intellectually & emotionally -- in anticipation of the time when said children can or must enter the role of "adult" in society, & parenthood's function is 2 protect children *while not compromising their developmental journey from childhood 2 adulthood*. If & when children fail 2 achieve a level of education, competence & independence that enables them 2 function adequately as adults ... the 1st suspects should B the parents.

[@thenarrator6846]

See you guys in like a month when he uploads again. Thank you for your hard work, sir

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

''they didn't give you a gift, they gave it to themselves'' What a line!

[@wondersharefilmorainterfac9988]

Excellent video my students will study and rewatch.

[@fortkavanagh]

This is EXACTLY what my mom did to me!

[@lenap4956]

I am one of those people who, despite being aware of the abuse, never left the household and allowed the abuse to continue. It is very hard to get out from that helpless mindset. While I know in the future I'll be far away from my toxic parent. Right now, in this present, I feel like a little child who won't be able to cope with the real world if I were to took a step outside. I don't want to change yet and I have no explanation why I am like this. However I have faith. I haven't gave up on myself yet. I still need to work on a lot of issues before I feel ready enough to leave but I know for fact, that I don't want to spend the rest of my life catering to the need of an abusive person. Ever.

[@GeodeRegan22]

This is something I have personally been subject to, at least in part, blatantly. Regardless it effected me. I am glad I escaped, but I know some of my siblings, especially my sister, is being subject to this abuse. It's definitely stumped me. Thank you for posting this video.