"Innocence" is HORRIBLE (Beautiful?) | Buffy The Vampire Slayer Reaction | First Time Watching 2x14

[@TylerAlexander]

I will say by the way, whenever Angelus is ‘turned back’ to Angel I could see him and Buffy TRYING to rekindle their relationship, albeit slowly, and it just not working out. I can see a reality of there just being ‘too much’ between them after all that has happened. I say 'all' because obviously this arc of him being Angelus isn’t over and I’m sure this isn’t the end of the torture for her. But yeah, right now I’m imagining a painful attempt at trying to get back to where they left off and it just not feeling the same. No spoilers, please ❤

[@Junejane4]

I've been following your channel for a while and just wanted to add a small comment summarizing this important for the whole plot storyline that I always found controversial, while the plot glorified it. According to this storyline the biggest moment in 200 years of the character's life was having sex with a 17 year old school girl, not the relationship itself or declarations of love, no, the sex, at the same time persisting in his patronizing attitude towards her like he is her father that she doesn't really have. Besides always adding tons of melodrama to such relationship between them. What is this? Why do they torture themselves with such story? Is this what they call great love? Because that's how they treat it. I seriously don't understand the author here.

[@RLucas3000]

@@Junejane4 It wasn’t the sex, at all, rewatch that scene, it was the afterglow, that moment of pure peace and contentment, of happiness to just be there and to love and be loved and hold that person you would give up your life for, THAT was the moment.

[@Henrik_Holst]

@@Junejane4 it was not the sex, remember from the end of the last episode that both Buffy and Angel had time to fall asleep before he lost his soul (and Angel does loose his soul the second he feels this one moment of true happiness). Neither was it him being with a 17 year old school girl, it was him (after 200 years) being with and finding the love of his life.

[@Junejane4]

@@RLucas3000 'the afterglow' is the overly romanticized way to say 'after he realized that they just had sex'. The 'after the sex' moment. In this point of view, only the fact of sex happening equals real happiness, unlike anything else. If you are looking for 'pure peace' etc there were lot of other options to show it but they weren't chosen because that's not actually the idea. Thus, making having sex an unattainable ideal in their relationship, because they can do everything else and nothing happens to his character. Besides this, as if the fact that she is still a school girl in this story is not enough. He's like another daddy of hers who makes them suffer and runs away. Excuse me but this is f_ked up.

[@ernesthakey3396]

It is F'd up, but I hold to the idea that Angel woke up next to the woman he loved, and yes, the first time they had sex definitely helped, but it was him just being happy to wake up next to the love of his life combined with the afterglow made him perfectly happy. After the sex, before he fell asleep, he probably was worrying about how this was going to work, what it meant going forward, etc, especially given that he's still a vampire with a lot of things to atone for; his soul still gave him feelings of guilt etc. The show was cruel to Buffy and cruel to us, the audience. But many people just say it was having sex. It wasn't just the sex, it was sex with Buffy, and her still being there next to him when he woke up. In real life, in my experience, having sex but then going home afterwards, versus staying and sleeping next to your lover, and waking up next to them - it doesn't compare.

[@spamfilter32]

Thank you for recognizing it wasn't the sex. Many people miss that.

[@xyex]

It's so annoying how many people think it was just the sex. Yes, it happened after the sex, but it clearly wasn't the *sex* that did it. Or it would have happened during, and not so long after that he was sleeping when it did.

[@zenithquasar9623]

It is played as if it was the sex all through the episode though.

[@XavionofThera]

It was and wasn't. It was the emotional aspect of the sex, not necessarily the physical process.

[@Dudeamis17]

future writers sometimes miss that too sometimes.

[@Henrik_Holst]

@@zenithquasar9623it's played that way in order to inflict trauma on Buffy.

[@dlweiss]

I'm always so impressed at just how STAGGERINGLY convincing David Boreanaz is at playing a smug, misogynistic, spiteful creep. Especially after he's been so good at playing a kind, principled, occasionally humorous guy.

[@Miss9830]

I know right. And people are saying he is a shitty actor *rolls eyes*

[@Lady-Seashell-Bikini]

@@Miss9830 Right, just because he's shitty at speaking with an Irish accent doesn't mean that he's completely horrible as an actor.

[@Atomic0range]

Who hasn’t slept with a guy only for him to reveal himself as a literal demon afterwards? This episode really shows off SMG’s acting, she did such a great job.

[@tanyaisonYT]

Just ‘yes’ to both of these 😂

[@TylerAlexander]

😬 yikes. True, SMG is always phenomenal 💫

[@timmorris82]

Who hasn’t at some point had a chance of heart after that post nut clarity hit?

[@dayceem]

I might add that it's pretty horrible afterwards to realize that you're the demon.

[@fanmagicks]

No matter what SMG cries & I 😭😭😭

[@jmwild1]

The Judge is interesting in that he's the ultimate Macguffin whose only true purpose is to convince the characters and the audience that Angel really has lost his soul and it's not some fake-out. He was setup in Surprise with the ability to sense humanity in people just so he can then attempt to burn Angel in Innocence and confirm that he's evil again, for realsies.

[@ernesthakey3396]

And also as a gimmick to let Xander use his soldier knowledge and to let Buffy fire a rocket launcher. Iconic!

[@moppet1214]

That scene between buffy and Giles at the end kills me every time (in the best way) 😢

[@Dudeamis17]

Giles is a way better dad than Hank

[@jspettifer]

And then the candle and cake scene

[@icyravens]

Giles's speech at the end of this episode is probably my favorite of the entire season. (Maybe it's my own issues with my dad but) it absolutely breaks me every time. 💜💜💜

[@Miss9830]

It's quite rare to see a father figure saying ALL the right things to a teenage girl in pop culture. Im so happy I saw this scene when I was a 13 year old, it really had an impact....

[@Dudeamis17]

@@Miss9830 16 year old me would have loved to have heard this from my dad

[@tanyaisonYT]

It is definitely OK to enjoy Angelus (and the rest of the vampire trio). They kind of need to be fun otherwise how sad the situation is would just be unbearable lol. David Boreanaz must have enjoyed it more, too. His performance levels up for Angelus.

[@Atomic0range]

You can tell they’re all having a great time acting in those scenes. David Boreanaz goes from honestly a little boring to chewing the scenery!

[@TylerAlexander]

Yeah, I'd never have said he was bad before or anything, but he really stretches himself with Angelus and I was genuinely impressed.

[@gungho1284]

@@Atomic0range Regular Angel is a very somber character. He still had a ways to go in growing his social skills before getting derailed here.

[@moppet1214]

Lol... I think that feeling of needing to talk through a traumatic epidode of Buffy at least partially explains why so many fans love it when someone new to the show reacts to it for the first time 😂

[@VictoriaWilder13]

"Give me time" is one of my most favorite moments in this entire show. Every time I see it, it gives me a chill. She's just so amazing.

[@eeejjj6378]

It's hard to overstate how unique this was when it aired. These two episodes translationed the show from good to great. They perfectly depict loss of innocence and the pain of growing up.

[@icyravens]

I very literally remember watching these episodes when they came out. I made my mom watch them with me (since they were on back-to-back nights) but she hadn't watched the series... she was like, okay, this is good, and I was DE. STROYED.

[@yannhollister9091]

Evil Angel is so good, David did a great job

[@Dudeamis17]

This is where I begin to enjoy the character more, it allows him to really spread his wings.

[@ErisRising]

No matter how many times I've seen it, Giles's speech to Buffy at the end never fails to bring me to tears.

[@Scarygothgirl]

I find it interesting that most people's first instinct is that Angel will definitely get his soul back, despite the show telling us that no other vampire has ever had a soul and that the magicks that gave it to him are ancient and long lost. It feels similar to the denial stage of grief. The characters on the show haven't mentioned it as a possibility, but the audience assume that, because he was a main character, he must be redeemable. I agree with you that enjoyable villains are what makes a show great. I think that's what's part of why people enjoy season two so much more than season one. The Master was just plan evil, but Dru Spike and Angelus have history, emotional relationships and are a pure joy to see on screen.

[@cajah88]

Newer audiences also have the benefit of knowing how long the show goes on and that it has a spinoff, so... kinda removes some of the mystery.

[@oneslikeme]

For me, I just see it as a part of storytelling. When characters set up something to be impossible, that's almost always subverted.

[@ozfroggirl9221]

@@oneslikeme It's the Discworld power of the narrative. 'Million to one chances happen nine times out of ten.'

[@danwiesdamageinc]

13:12 "Things are about to get very interesting"

[@sashajace2745]

Came for the super insightful Good Place analysis, stayed for the sheer, unadulterated joy every time the Buffy theme plays! Keep up the great work! :D

[@eolair]

I really enjoy your commentary. Welcome to "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" Tyler. Most fans agree that this is where Buffy really begins.

[@emme2141]

Angelus is genuinly one of my favourite characters, just because of how well David Boreanaz plays him, he’s so good to watch!

[@themediater]

The curse is really messed up isn't it, as the dude says, it isn't justice, it's vengeance. The little clause that he loses his soul if he experiences happiness is like... well that's just extra crap, especially since he doesn't know about it. Just means a bunch of innocent people are collateral damage in your vengeance on behalf of someone who lived and died, however unjustly, 100 years ago.

[@LLLLLL-wp9bz]

I don’t know if the writers consider it; but for me , in all fairytales curses nearly always have a way to be broken. Usually true loves kiss. So this maps almost exactly once you remove the G rating. So even great magics have a mundane weak point any Mundy can exploit. From this perspective, the original spellcaster did not need to have some complex warped intentions. They , lacking a warrior/slayer , were simply chaining Angelus via a soul and the prison had an inherent flaw all magic prisons would have. The show doesn’t seem to take this path though 🤷🏻 .

[@Emburbujada]

This is what Buffy can be, and now you know why we all wanted you to get to season 2. This transition, for Buffy and for the show, is like life, painful, but exciting! Things are about to get very interesting...

[@gungho1284]

I love how the lights go out when Xander gets his big idea. You know, instead of the light bulb going on. 💡

[@tomjsturnerYT]

Hey mate. Just want to say thank you in your discussion section about disabilities for separating out disabled people and wheelchair users. As a disabled man who can walk I find too often people assuming disabled and wheelchair user are synonyms becomes a barrier to me getting the support I need to live life to the full. So the more the distinction between the two the better! So I always try and thank those who don't have a disability, but do make that distinction. Even if it just happens to happen in a reaction video to one of my favourite shows 😅!

[@xbubblemunkyx]

Whenever I show friends Buffy, I ask them to watch until this episode and if it's not for them we can stop watching. They always wanna keep watching. It's one of the best episodes in the entire season and you're definitely allowed to have fun with it... for now.

[@kellygilbert736]

Tbh this is where Buffy gets emotionally more mature and meaty. Ive been waiting for this change. Glad we made it. I look forward to your take on things to come.

[@Marwolaeth01]

Way way back when i first watched Buffy, I remember a friend of mine saying she didn't watch Buffy as no one in it can act, Charmed is the one to watch. If that were the case, then why does my heart break every time I see SMG vulnerable and upset? Wanting to just give her a big hug is the exact reaction to that moment. Upon reflection, I think this arc here is a big part of why everyone is so Pro Buffy and Angel being together. If you're not invested in them being a couple, if every time you see them together you just roll your eyes and go "eww", then I think there is the fear that this could be a moment of "oh good, I'm glad" rather than one of heartache. I still remember getting to the end of this episode and being shocked he was still not fixed. Why's he not fixed? When're they going to fix him? They're going to fix him, right? RIGHT!?!?

[@ShmooRay]

Horribly beautiful is a great description of the show when it's in this mode.

[@keltzy]

This two-parter is one of my favorite in the whole series.

[@chelsjones]

i remembered you mentioning your partner is disabled and was really excited to see if you would mention anything abt spike. as usual, you didn’t disappoint. most reactors don’t usually comment on it, most likely because they either don’t want to accidentally say the wrong thing or because they don’t see how applicable spikes situation is in real life. being born disabled is hard, but becoming disabled is hard in a different way because you’ve formed your relationships as an non-disabled person and now you can’t do what you always could to uphold them. it can be incredibly isolating, and it’ll be really interesting to see how that affects spike’s character!

[@chelsjones]

just pressed play and you said almost the exact same thing lmao

[@TylerAlexander]

​@@chelsjones🤣 always the risk. But you're right. I know the conversation of being born disabled and becoming disabled later in life looks different in certain ways, and can come with specific difficulties. It's nuance a lot of able-bodied folk (myself included previous to being witness to it) never really think about and feeds into public perception of disability which needs to be broken down. I very much saw last episode and went 👀 'okay let's see', and held my tongue until there was something to say more so. It'll be interesting to watch this element of the show moving forward.

[@salyx]

It was really nice to have someone touch on this. Being disabled in an abled world is so hard. I had to isolate myself for a few years because my nervous system was so fried that sometimes just hearing another person’s voice would send me in full body spasm. My relationship with my family and friends has never recovered, people still just forget I exist.

[@ernesthakey3396]

​@@salyx❤️‍🩹

[@samanthas8340]

I've never head anyone really talk about this either with Spike. I have a son that's disabled paired with cognitive delay as well, which is something I never see any accommodations for. I pretty much have to create my own.

[@stephaniebarker472]

I feel like the is the episode when people say, "hm.. well, I guess David really can act...?" He is so brilliant and compelling as Angelus.

[@killianlpc]

Now you know we always kept saying that form Mid S2 onwards this show really takes off. This episode Innocence along with preceding episode Surprise are where the show changed. I think this is the best episode by far up until this point, but believe it or not there are two more episodes in this Season that surpass this! There are so many reveals and jaw dropping scenes coming up, but this episode Innocence definitely a Top 20 from the whole series of 144 episodes. Here we now know that Angel has changed into Angelus, where the Gypsy curse has come to pass. Buffy realising that Miss Calendar was behind it was a great scene where she grabs her by the throat in the classroom. There are so many brilliant scenes it this it is hard to pinpoint any. The pain Buffy feels when Angel is talking about her losing her virginity and sexual performance is just so hard to watch. 'Innocence' of course also refers to Willow who is devastated to see Xander kiss Cordelia, and you can also see the 'Innocence' of her budding relationship with Oz. The rocket launcher scene in the mall is epic. Strap in for the ride there is even better to come! BTW the actor who plays Jenny's uncle is the late Vincent Schiavelli who was in lots of famous films from 70s onwards including the Bond Film Tomorrow Never Dies, and yes he was in the Humbug episode of the X-Files also.

[@lynnevetter]

Sarah will slay you when she cries. 😭😭😭

[@spamfilter32]

"Giles, shut up." That was the moment Willow knew Buffy and Angel had sex.

[@lynnevetter]

Lol

[@chrisleneil]

“Let it burn” Love that line on multiple levels.

[@tanyaisonYT]

Spike as a wheelchair user is really interesting. Because it’s the 90s I’d be surprised if the show is consciously trying to advocate for disabled people (though who knows, it’s a progressive show). But the thing they do with it that’s really great is that any scene where the wheelchair is textually relevant is a Spike scene (or Spike’s the POV for that moment in that scene). They also largely get the balance right re: showing how it affects him and not letting it be all he is now. And there’s something kind of awesome about Drusilla being just as into him… I know they’re vampires, but it’s sweet. If her attention is being pulled elsewhere it’s other plot things, nothing to do with Spike's status in her mind. Represent! XD

[@TylerAlexander]

Yeah! There's a shot where Angel very specifically takes her hand off Spike and takes her away and I felt like that was so symbolic in the sense that she's specifically being TAKEN as opposed to leaving because she's not into him. Obvs Dru just goes with the flow but you're right, she's still very into Spike.

[@garydevlin8178]

@@TylerAlexander hmm Spike as wheelchair rep? …ah fuck it, still beats Emmerdale’s Chris Tate?🤷‍♂️😆

[@jjlonsdale5971]

Oh yeah, David playing Angelus is wayyyyyy too fun to limit to just one episode.

[@scarlettmi]

I really appreciate your analysis during the episode. You really got the weight of that scene between Buffy and Angelus where he is so casually cruel to her.

[@dylanburton4955]

Making Angelus a villain beyond one episode was such a good idea, David plays it so perfectly and it does feel like a totally different person

[@zenithquasar9623]

If this is Buffy's 17th b'day, I'd like to see how her 18th would be! Poor thing! This is so harsh on her...

[@rachaelknudsen8801]

Small spoiler At one point in a future season, someone does ask her (or she asks them) if maybe she should vonsider not having birthdays, given they don't turn out well.

[@tanyaisonYT]

It is, it’s a horribly beautiful episode. The metaphor really hits. Great commentary :)

[@TylerAlexander]

❤️❤️❤️

[@FrankieNuggetGaming]

12:26 I'm prertty sure in the orginal release of this you couldn't see his face. the HD verison of this show wasn't done well unfortunately

[@tilltab]

Loved the commentary on this, and I think this two parter is possibly my favourite thing from the whole show, which is not to say there aren’t so many more great episodes to come, because there definitely are! But the performances in this episode, the way it was shot, the vulnerability that Sarah shows so well… it’s brilliant and really lets you feel the emotions in each scene. I love it!

[@Veryslightlymad]

Ah, Tyler, you probably thought you already watched Episode 1 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[@marekkozub8957]

One of the best episodes of the entire series. Top notch acting.

[@zenithquasar9623]

Surprise and Innocence back to back is sooo good and gripping.

[@chaptereight2639]

Before this point in season 2, I thought the show was okay but not great. Maybe not even wholly good, although there's occasionally a good or great episode before this point. But after this point, it's great for a good long while.

[@tracydale154]

People watching for the first time in 2023/2024 asking in the first season and a half “are we gonna address how problematic the B/A ship is or nah?” Yes. Yes we are.

[@Itsjandz105]

This 2 parter is top tier television and has a little of everything.

[@lesleymaroquin5777]

I honestly can't fight out how you can take time between episodes. Lol even though I've seen every episode many times there are still periods of the show that i can't wait to watch. I have to keep going. You have really good will power. Even just waiting for your reactions is hard. I enjoy your videos.

[@tilltab]

I know right! So often he will say something that will make me think about things that happen in future episodes, so I’m constantly excited for him to get to those! I kind of enjoy the waiting though…. As long as it’s not TOO long! Lol

[@TylerAlexander]

That's very sweet 😅❤️ I'd say I do have a lot of patience in general for this sort of thing but it's also just the time it takes to produce videos that means I can't just speed ahead 😅 I'm constantly in a state of 'wanna go faster' but the time it takes to edit and produce something is honestly just time consuming 🥴 so I feel ya.

[@NicolaColey-nx2wq]

Please take your time! Whilst I can't wait for your reactions I don't want you to feel rushed or pressured especially earlier on in your reaction i think you wasn't sure you would have time to upload the reactions to youtube I rather wait between episodes then not have them at all. Your analysis of characters and themes is very interesting and make me think of the show in ways I never thought of before 💕 I don't have anyone to discuss and analysis shows like this so this is a good outlet for me!

[@jjlonsdale5971]

Oh, and regarding the artistic sex scene flashback, which I agree is very nicely done - the ADR of the moans and sighs and whatnot is done by J*ss and Marti Noxon, because they were too embarrassed to ask the actors to do it.

[@AndreaVLopez87]

I never knew that! 😆

[@leahwalko145]

Loved your commentary for the two-parter! I especially loved your analysis of Spike and his current disability

[@partycitydumpster]

That's the beautiful tragedy of the slayer allegory. Adulthood doesn't usually give you the proper space to handle traumatic experiences in a developmentally healthy way, in fact it usually runs exactly counter to that. Proper emotional processing comes second to survival.

[@tilltab]

Man, I’d already hit the like button way before you started talking about disabilities, and now I’m gutted I can’t like it again! Great observation, and something I’ve never really thought about with regard to Spike and this show.

[@rhclarinet]

I was SO excited for you to see this one and it didn't disappoint, you're such an insightful reactor and this episode had so much for you to enjoy. It's so satisfying to watch you go on this journey and hear your ideas, which are always spot on! What you said at the end sums it up: 'I feel horrible about it... I'm really happy'🤣 Also, it's defo not just a you thing enjoying the three vamps reunited!

[@caseyhart4999]

Tyler the rest of this season is absolutely fantastic and I have full confidence you will agree. This is one of your best Buffy videos for sure. I love the way you describe it as beautifully horrible.

[@ms_scribbles]

I'm so glad you caught onto the true meaning of the curse more than almost any other reactor (or, hell, even most of the characters in the show and the spinoff for a long time, until the story arc required them to realize the difference) that it's not the *sex* that took away his soul. It was the true happiness. The contentment. You'll notice in the last episode, he did not immediately lose his soul after the sex, but when he was just laying there with Buffy in his arms, watching her sleep, and being at peace... *then* his soul started slipping away.

[@butterflypooo]

The show eventually clarified that it wasn’t just the sex? That’s a relief. Was it a single ep or more? Was it in Angel? I don’t know if I’ve seen it.

[@bashby97]

absolute banger commentary, as always

[@TylerAlexander]

❤️❤️❤️

[@Buffy8Fan]

Here's how miscommunication, both in the show and in real life happens over Angel's soul loss-age, happens: Giles wonders what triggered Angel losing his soul, which instantly makes Buffy assume it was the sex. When Buffy confronts Jenny, she states "it was me," to which Jenny replies "I think so." Neither Buffy or Jenny is wrong, but what Jenny didn't know was that Buffy was blaming herself directly for the sex, and what Jenny knew was that Enyos recently informed her, "Angel was meant to suffer. Not to live as human. One moment of true happiness, of contentment..." then he finishes by clarifying himself in saying, "...One moment where the soul that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is taken from him." The group believe happiness by sex at the end of the episode because Jenny tells the Scoobies the belief Giles unintentionally put in Buffy's head. The real cause was that when Angel no longer feels guilt he loses his soul. That is what Enyos's quote boils itself down to. In this particular instance, Buffy made Angel happy enough to not feel guilt. But anything could make him not feel guilty enough to lose his soul. It didn't have to be happiness. And it wasn't the sex, because they were lying in bed for a while afterwards when he started feeling the soul going. So, Jenny told Buffy the truth when she said it was Buffy, and Buffy was right when she said it was her, but the nuanced details were off, which caused confusion for in-universe characters , as well as real fans. Enyos and the gypsies didn't see Angel being guilt free and take his soul away. The generations before placed the curse on him while the curse knew when it couldn't hold due to Angel not feeling guilt. If Willow wants to be upset that Xander doesn't like her, I understand, but to be angry that he didn't choose her when she didn't ask him out (and there are moments before this episode that clue her into him not reciprocating), that I cannot get behind. He has a right kiss Cordelia, even if Willow doesn't like it, and I dislike Willow saying "gross emotional problems," "against all laws of god and man," "you'd rather be with someone you hate than be with me," and any other such rude lines after being shown he doesn't reciprocate. There's a difference between being angry and upset. Angry is a toxic reaction. Being upset is a healthy reaction. Personally I think having a club about hating someone is no better than what Cordelia does to Willow. And Cordelia, in-universe, hasn't been doing any bullying for eight months. Willow and Xander's club is just a different type of bullying (but bullying nonetheless), whether Cordelia knows about the club or not. I love the fact that Oz calls her out on making Xander jealous by saying its on the "empty side." It's something Willow needed to hear in a way only Oz could say it. It's why people say that's the moment she falls in love with him. The look on her face confirming it, in my opinion. On th DVD Special Feature, the director stated he originally wrote the scene where Angelus was mean to Buffy while pretending to be Angel with them in Buffy's front yard and with Angelus in a big coat. The scene wasn't working, so they filmed the scene with Buffy and Giles at the end, and those were real tears of Sarah Michelle Gellar being upset that she couldn't get the "Angelus is mean" scene right. When they re-filmed it, it was after the director made the realization of the scene needing to be in Angel's house next to the bed they had sex in with Angelus getting dressed, rather than on Buffy's front lawn. I understand why Buffy couldn't kill Angelus, but not containing him never made sense. She kicked him in the nuts and walked away. To some degree whatever he does afterwards is on her.

[@ernesthakey3396]

Edit insert needed: when Angel "no longer" feels guilt - deja vu all over again my fellow fan!

[@Buffy8Fan]

@@ernesthakey3396 Yeah, sometimes I cut and paste this, as well as some of my other longer theories - depends on what the reaction viewer says), from my other uploaded comments before adding and editing and that's an easy edit to overlook/miss. Some of those past comments are correct and some aren't. Thanks again!

[@ernesthakey3396]

@@Buffy8Fan you're welcome!

[@jspettifer]

There are a few episodes which show a turning point of the show from something good to great. This is one of them. The others before this (for me) are Lie to Me and the library scene in Prophecy Girl.

[@vaguesombre7455]

Love your reactions and listening to your theories ! This episode manages to be both heartbreaking and heartwarming. As a teen I think this is the one episode that started my Buffy obsession. The stakes are high 😊

[@Super00Specs]

1. Iove that shirt. It's awesome. 2. I knew you would get the whole "his love for Buffy broke the curse" and not "they had sex broke the curse" thing right away. Honestly, I couldn't wait for you to get to these two episodes and your reaction did not disappoint.

[@Re0nack]

This episode is the “key” 1 to understanding why Buffy is so revered- it’s a perfect balance of story and emotion - this Is the 1 that hooked most people to the show

[@tcshack701]

No matter how many times I watch this episode I always get desecrated by the Quest for Camelot movie posters in the background of the final fight scene. Because it is supposed to be a very dramatic scene and there is "Bladebeak" in the back of all the shots of Angel.

[@BewitchCraft]

The fact that she has to go through so much and THIS this is how her first time is...I hate it being written that way. I wish his soul could have returned a few episodes later or something. Hes so unbelievably cruel. SMG is just -chefs kiss- you can see the heartbreak in her eyes. Shes so strong and you see that vulnerability when she says "Is it me? Was I not good?" the earnesty. Just, yeah I hate this episode lmao

[@omalleycaboose5937]

Angelus, love Angelus, well love to hate angelus.

[@salyx]

Oh yeah, this one is a delicious episode. Good arcs going for all the characters, David showing some better acting chops as Angelus, that scene at the end with Giles that always makes me tear up, Oz being the best, and the very relatable feeling of having sex with someone who turns out to be a monster. So good.

[@gungho1284]

The fan base wanted Buffy and Angel to be together romantically, But Whedon said, "What people want is not what they need." From Jenny's uncle in a deleted scene - "The day you stop suffering for your crimes, you are no longer worthy of a human soul."

[@Ylyrra]

"What's that do?" from The Judge never fails to crack me up, it's just so cheesy but somehow works.

[@athena450]

I LOVED your commentary on this! The way you phrased certain things - like the fun of Angelus/Dru/Spike, the ushering in of adulthood by taking away Buffy's 'comfort' and idealized love - was so perfect and honestly sharpened my perspective on this episode, as someone who's seen it countless times before. I think a really important point on this episode and on the show in general is that turning Angel evil was REVOLUTIONARY in the history of serialized television. Shows, particularly genre shows like Buffy, hadn't really started doing arcs yet. Everything was still very episodic. Plus, if you ever revisit your earlier S2 reactions, you might notice that Angel's turn had been heavily foreshadowed in some of the episodic plots - her missing sex ed in 'Bad Eggs', plus lots of hidden dualities (particularly those that have to do with romance): Giles' secret dark side coinciding with his and Jenny's big date in 'The Dark Age', everyone's costumes revealing unexplored personality traits in 'Halloween', Ted having a violent streak, Xander having to turn against the Inca Mummy Girl when her secret was exposed... This level of interconnectedness between episodes and consistent thematic work was (anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) completely unprecedented.

[@ceceliam9014]

This is the allegory the character of Angel was written to fulfill. The guy who changes after he gets what he wanted. Joss wrote Xander as himself, and had intended Xander to be the long term love interest initially. But no one wanted that relationship, and the Buffy Angel one was too tragic and interesting for audiences, and the character had so much potential, so it lasted longer than originally intended. I don't think they explore who Angel is (with a soul) to justice until his own show, though. Spike also was supposed to be a short term character but was too big a hit with audiences. James Marsters tells a story about how Joss shoved him against a wall and told him he didn't care how popular he is the character isn't supposed to last.

[@littlecitygirl]

Always a pleasure to watch your reaction and listen to your detailed and fascinating analysis, Tyler. Surprise and Innocence are such iconic episodes in the Buffy 'verse and your thoughtful comments were terrific to listen to. And your Buffy theme tune game continues to grow! :)

[@lulu63]

I, too, chair danced with every playing of the theme song.

[@ernesthakey3396]

The scene in the mall reminds me of the lyrics in the Bruce Cockburn song, "If I Had A Rocket Launcher." Last verse: "I want to raise every voice -- at least I've got to try Every time I think about it water rises to my eyes. Situation desperate, echoes of the victims cry If I had a rocket launcher...Some son of a bitch would die."

[@mparantha]

I love all the misdirection this season regarding the season big bad. When we first start the season, we think the big bad will be the anointed one. Then, Spike gets introduced with a great backstory of having killed 2 slayers previously, but NO. It's Angelus all along as our real big bad for season 2.

[@kellygilbert736]

I love your take on the candle, and her loss of childhood whimsy. I don't think ive ever read it quite like that, but you are spot on.

[@corgiluver9718]

Great reaction/analysis/theories to this powerful episode of Buffy. Love episodes that change a show forever like this one does. So many great scenes but the Buffy/Giles one at the end really gets to me.

[@JeccaJ]

I was so excited for your commentary for this one as I knew you'd understand the themes instantly. The metaphors of growing up and the challenges that come with that, superbly acted from everyone in this episode. The s*x scene was mainstream tv pre-watershed so was always going to be tasteful, but I adore the artistry compared to other more visual scenes - with beautiful music to accompany it. I get so drawn in by your thoughtful enthusiasm for each episode, so these were hotly anticipated. Excited for your analysis on the upcoming character arcs. Plus, snazzy shirt 🤩

[@zemoxian]

Some people seem to think the Judge was weak and ineffectual. I think the real purpose of the Judge is to reveal to the audience that Angel has reverted to his purely evil persona. “He cannot be burned” is his real purpose. The threat of armageddon is simply his reason for being present in the story to fulfill his true purpose. The harbinger.

[@feudist]

Meditate on the description of Angelus by the Master-the oldest vampire on record-as the most vicious creature he'd ever met. It's gonna get worse before it gets ...worser.

[@DegrassiInstantStar]

David Boreanaz is fantastic: playing the vampire we love (Angel) and the vampire we love to hate (Angelus).

[@sebastienriviere7371]

Another comment here^^ Am I the only one who think that the gypsy curse is pretty stupid? Returning Angel's soul to punish him and making him suffer for what he did seems pointless. At this point in the show, we are told that when you become a vampire, a demon takes possession of your body but it is not you anymore. So basically, Angel is being punished for something he didn't do and the real perpetrator of the crimes of Angelus is not. We have no way of knowing if the demon Angelus does suffer from this (after all it has no guilt whatsoever so he doesn't care that Angel suffers). And the rest doesn't make sense either. Why Angel must lose his soul if he ever achieve perfect happiness? I mean it only makes sense if it is to make sure that he doesn't because Angel will be afraid of losing his soul and will avoid any emotion or any situation in which he could be happy. But he is not aware of that. He doesn't know this could happen. Why Jenny's people didn't warn him of that if they wanted him to continue to suffer? It's obvious that, but not telling him it could happen, the risk exists that Angel will eventually lose his soul. And, by doing so, will be able to kill again and become again the monster they wanted to punish. It doesn't make sense to me...

[@livyykitty]

It definitely does not make sense. Upon first watching I kinda just went along with it, but now... Why would you curse him in a way where if it's broken, he turns back into a ruthless killing machine? How is that a good idea? He’s already suffered for a lifetime or two, that’s enough - if they felt he was getting close to getting too happy, it would’ve been easier to just kill him at this point

[@paulcharlesworth487]

I tend to think of this season as having an ok first half and really good second half, mostly because I find this turn with Angel and the fallout from that to be much more compelling than the somewhat clichéd romance that comes before it. But of course, this stuff only works because of the relationships that the show has been building up, not just with Buffy and Angel, but with Spike and Drusilla, and Giles and Jenny. I'm often guilty of skipping over the early episodes, but your reactions up to this point have reminded me of their importance.

[@gjits5307]

Angel reporting back to Spike and Dru about his sabotage of Buffy has (Mean Girls) Kady reporting back to Janis and Damien about Regina energy

[@spamfilter32]

"I got older." "I'll just let it burn." These statements are about Buffy being depressed, not about lost innocence. Her talk with Giles in the car was about her lost innocence. Buffy suffers from life long depression, and those last lines were about her expressing her depressive bout.

[@crowfoot1199]

Yes, this. I think after a year or two of being a slayer Buffy's "innocence", whatever that means, has been gone for some time. She's seen death. What she IS, here, is deeply deeply sad.

[@dlweiss]

Honestly, one of the ONLY moments in the episode that I dislike is the moment when Buffy returns home and her mom immediately looks at her like, "Huh, there's something *different* about you, I can't quite put my finger on it." Because it just plays into that outdated construct about virginity/purity, and the idea that people can somehow *sense* that you've lost it or changed in some fundamental way afterwards.

[@ernesthakey3396]

I think Buffy was acting a little strange, perhaps more preoccupied than usual. But I agree, the trope is ridiculous.

[@crowfoot1199]

Agreed! that trope is so dumb and sexist. I wish Joyce had made an allusion to her looking like she was in pain, or lost, or depressed, because that was going on. She looked sad. So yeah, she looked different, something was off, but it's not because of The Magical Penis which changed her. (just to confirm, experiencing something new and intense can absolutely change you in a way, but what's the difference, really, between a heavy make out session and 'going all the way'? Both are extremely sexual. Stupid virginity trope)

[@BFA_78]

I always appreciate you taking a deep dive into the themes of the episodes. The show is really hitting its stride at this point, and this 2 parter really shows what it is capable of. I am excited for you to see the rest!

[@anthonyainsworth142]

Honestly m8.... absolutely loving your break downs and interpretations of each episode 👏 I actually can't wait to see your journey through this season 🙌 & the whole show! It's sucks waiting for your reactions to drop but obviously I understand you have other reactions to do.... yet the waiting or your reactions kind of reminds me of when I first watch it on TV waiting week for week for each episode & I appreciate the nostalgia, if that makes any sence 🤔 😅👍. keep up the good work and I'll be here for the next one cheers m8!

[@butterflypooo]

Damn. These are the eps that are the most burned in my brain from when I was younger and watching this on air for the first time. There are so many details then I couldn’t pick up on (although I felt them in someway) that I STILL didn’t pick up on until you pointed them out. Damn. That’s not like me. I wish I could watch this for the first time as an adult. Beautifully written, beautifully acted. Thank you for your commentary, dude. I don’t think the disability isolation was intentional at all but it does nod to that. IMO, the rest of season 2 and season 3 are top notch. 👌🏻 looking forward to watching those with you as well. Cheers.

[@janeldavis905]

Great reaction!! Thank you for sharing with us 🙂

[@ButtonsandBookends]

Thank you for noting the disability representation with Spike.

[@tracim3080]

It’s funny actually I watch a Podcasts that reacts to Vanderpump rules and they just use this episode as a metaphor for a break up going on on the reality show Give her time part how she needs time before she can deal with her evil douche bag ex appropriately So seeing you react to this episode and get the metaphors, I love it

[@DrawingPicture]

Until now there hasn't really been longer arcs - this changes now and it's one of the things that makes the show that much greater. They still have episode specific monsters and stories but in the background we get to see the season arc building up. The show is still evolving - just as the characters are figuring out who they are so it's the show. I'm often saddened that if this show had aired today it would have been cancelled early on and not had the time to figure out what it ended up being. So many shows with great potential gets scrapped today and that's really sad they don't get the opportunity to work out the kinks.

[@troikas3353]

Tangential to the video but your statement "there's too many sex scenes in media" is completely untrue, popular media hasn't been as sexless, bordering on puritanical, as it is today in decades. In many ways it feels like we are backsliding into sex negativity even as hyperviolence and gore are becoming more common.

[@wolervine]

Definitely, there's far less now than there used to be, there's many factors but it's really not a good thing.

[@dees3179]

Thank you for the disability related comment. It rings so true. It was a beautiful illustration visually with Spike. In real life it rarely looks so pretty. Something else that’s important to acknowledge is that for ‘normal’ people life moves on. Getting married, having children, progressing careers, living independently etc. any part of that could be stolen at any time by disability and it can feel like life goes on hold/or is permanently frozen. It makes it very hard to then re engage with people on typical topics of conversation. It’s very isolating. Invitations stop. You turn a few things down because you aren’t well enough and people think you don’t want to come so they stop asking. Or they stop asking because you are the only single one who doesn’t know anyone, you don’t have the stamina to keep up and join in for long etc. doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate being asked sometimes….it’s nice to be remembered. And if you do make it to an event then the do I or don’t I if someone asks how you are doing. Do they really want to know at a party? Cos it’s hella depressing!

[@Shenare]

Where did you get that thumb ring? It looks awesome :)

[@WillowOrdalon]

Everyone who saw you initially watch the first and last episodes of Buffy has been waiting for you to get to Surprise and Innocence. This is where the show became great. Enjoy the ride from here on!

[@Swenglish]

The mechanics of the curse have interesting implications. It appears that the curse was basically a mutual agreement with Vengeance itself, or whatever entity manages the concept, wherein the benefit to both parties is Angel's suffering. The means to the suffering is the soul (in combination with the memory and guilt of all that was done without it), and the curse is what held the soul in place...and the curse is in the name of vengeance, so the soul requires the suffering as much as the suffering requires the soul. It's kind of an unsustainable perpetual motion machine, because apparently all it takes for it to break down is a brief moment where it's not generating enough suffering to be sustained. I think that says something about the cyclical nature and long term futility of vengeance, in a weird way. But that's all a side to the main course, which is the allegory that the whole Buffy/Angel romance storyline has been building toward since the beginning, and the thing that's been foreshadowed all season, which is the moment where the gentleman disappears and the predator shows his face. This includes the first episode of the season, where Buffy pulled the mask off Giles in a dream to reveal the Master, and Reptile Boy, where the nice frat boy turned out to be the worst of them all.

[@danielbutler8103]

20:58 Angel didn't lose his soul when they had sex, He lost his soul after when he was holding the woman he loves.

[@AnatoleVGC]

This is the kind of buffy episode I wanted to watch you react/comment on. Also the kind of buffy episode that highlights this show strenghts. Everytime something awful happens here we reaaally feel it cause we get to see this characters have fun and goof around a lot, so they feel more real. Its not like those over edgy shows we get nowadays that its always just death and pain. Buffy has a good balance of fun and heartache

[@itsagreateridea]

Lmao I love the appreciation of skipping over the sex scene other than an artsy dream montage, but skipping Jenny’s uncle’s death scene leads to “aw c’mon if you’re gonna do it at least show me!”

[@x_rhi_x2772]

Great commentary. for a great episode. Horribly beautiful is a perfect way to describe it. Also the comments on disability and it changing your life and relationships with others around you...brilliant

[@TylerAlexander]

❤️❤️❤️

[@blueconlan9180]

I love the skull shirt you are wearing. Very fetching.

[@jeanbot]

Season 2 is great, but I’m really excited for you to watch season 6, that is the most interesting season IMHO.