Inside a very British ioniser. (And how they fell out of favour.)

[@richardhallyburton]

I like the way you didn't clean a windowsill for several years in order to make an 18 minute video. That's dedication.

[@monkeyjustin22]

Yeah. Thats why!

[@richodude2679]

Richard Hallyburton it’s all about the science

[@tomleahy5383]

Collected only the best dust.

[@xenonram]

I picture Clive's house with hundreds of fairy lights, solar lights, disco lights, and ionizers dispersed throughout.

[@DisabilityExams]

And multiple foot detox baths

[@Jellyf0x]

Six inches of glitter carpeting the floors.

[@yippdogg9250]

@@Jellyf0x 6 inches huh, I'm down.

[@tncorgi92]

And his alarm system set up to activate banks of UV-C lamps.

[@1990chrism]

Don't forget the deadly UV-C rooms

[@dj_paultuk7052]

Back in the 80's when i was a wee lad / teenager living at home with my parents, i had one of these in my bedroom that i brought myself. The main reason being is my mum used to smoke like a train and i hated the smell, as i still do now. So i had one of these in my room and kept the door shut. It definitely give the room a very "Fresh air" type smell. But oh boy did it make a mess !. I had white desk & wardrobe furniture and it would turn it grey. So i was always having to wash surfaces down, and almost having to paint the walls and door frame yearly. But like you say, better on the surfaces than in my lungs.

[@woowooNeedsFaith]

Thanks for sharing. Nice to hear how effective this method really can be.

[@mahdi9064]

OK BOOMER

[@goranjosic]

If you can smell device like this, that's ozone - because you can't smell negative or positive ions.

[@annawildsville]

@@mahdi9064 I think you will find that anyone who was a teenager in the 80s is probably GEN-X not a boomer. Baby Boomer Generation started 1946, Generation X started 1965, Xennials started 1975, Millennials started 1980.

[@thekaiser4333]

Most likely a good part of your lung was ionized, exhaled and then washed down from the surfaces. And then the solvents from all that fresh paint on top of that... Oh dear. Well you survived all the ionizing radiation from Sellafield and all those millions of radioactive waste barrels along the British coasts and beaches, so you might survive that as well.

[@jabberwock95]

"I've made several ionizers before" Pulls out what is quite clearly a pipe bomb.

[@ryanunderwood1798]

He made that in the stream a few days ago

[@dh2032]

10:50 pipe bomb, good look at the air-port! :-)

[@gowdsake7103]

With a trigger cunningly disguised

[@deltab9768]

Not counting the needles on the top, I guess it's an "Ion Emitting Diode"

[@b3j8]

"Pipe-bomb Ionizer." Not sure it would do much to clear the air, but it would be a champ at making a mess!

[@TheGramophoneGirl]

We had one in a pub I worked in in the late 80s and it used to work really well at clearing cigarette smoke. I wonder why they no longer sell ionisers as I do remember they really did seem to work.

[@blerst7066]

Because it doesn't work. There's so little dust that point of the needle can remove.

[@r0cketplumber]

@@blerst7066 The needle isn't the dust collector- the large area grounded region around the device is. Thus the dark smudges on the windowsill, etc.

[@johnwang9914]

It's because it worked better than people realized. Everything in the room would get dirty as the fine particles collected on them and people thought it was all from the ionizers when the ionizers was just making them precipitate out of the air. Also, all the new age nonsense about health benefits instead of just saying it just precipitates particles out of the air didn't help.

[@OffGridInvestor]

@@blerst7066 they DO WORK.

[@jaxongarvey7455]

Probably just the rise of air purifiers pulling the dust out of the air as opposed to just having it precipitate on surfaces.

[@niallwildwoode7373]

I built one of these in the late 70s from plans in something like Practical Electronics mag. It never had a casing, and I was amazed at how as you moved your hand closer to the discharge needle tip, it'd make a kind of screeching sound. There was a heck of a breeze that came off it too.

[@restojon1]

My dear old Mum used to swear by Ionisers. I just cleared out her flat after she passed away and I found loads of them, I saved one partly because it was a nostalgic thing and partly because the design of the one I saved was all funky shaped. I shall PAT it today and plug it in if it passes. Thanks for the fantastic video Clive, hope you're staying well. All the best

[@cheerfultrout4381]

I've seen some HEPA air purifiers with ionizers built in, probably where you'll see them most often these days, get the air clean two different ways at the same time (plus it confines the particle buildup into the internal filters which you're supposed to replace regularly anyways, makes it easy to deal with)

[@6F6G]

I remember ionizer adverts from decades ago. They said that your room would need redecorating every year because of increased dust deposits. The ionizers that came with a slightly positive charged mat didn't work well because the effectiveness was reduced. How about sitting an ionizer on a conductive mat charged to about -1KV to repel negatively charged dust particles and having a number of positively charged mats strategically placed around the room to attract the charged dust particles. The result should be clean air and walls but dirty mats.

[@BenCos2018]

@Fast Internet why?

[@ekummel]

I had an ionizer that came with two mats. One small one that generated the negative ions and a larger one that wrapped around the ionizer body that was charged positive. This second, larger mat, required regular cleaning due to capturing so much dust.

[@JohnnyX50]

.. until you step on one with bare feet lol :D

[@SuperBoyz2men]

Fast Internet shut up

[@ooloncolluphid9975]

I was just thinking about that :D like a companion unit generating +V and attracting all the - charged dirt.

[@rustyaxelrod]

In the US (and probably elsewhere) there are air cleaners with a fan, air is brought in the front where it meets a conventional filter, then a charcoal filter. Behind that are charged plates and small wires with insulated stand offs that emit a crackle sound when the charged dust particles are zapped. After that is a ion probe with the clean air exhausted out the back and upward. The whole device is about the size of a cassette deck from the 1980’s. The filters can be removed as a unit and placed in the dishwasher. Years ago, when my daughter was young we had two of these in the house for her asthma. They got dirty quite quickly but the did emit that “after a rain shower” smell. These units were suggested by her Dr., bought from a medical supply retailer and were in service for more than thirteen years. They were still working when I passed them on to someone with a need and aside from replacing the fiber and carbon filters never needed repair.

[@nathanlucas6465]

When I was a kid I had an ionizer in my bedroom. My parents got it either from betaware or kleeneze, I forget which. It worked really well, and pulled loads of dust from the air, covering the top of the cupboard it sat on. All the modern ones I've found run on low voltage from a power brick and just don't seem to work anywhere near as well

[@ShadowManceri]

Or the air is way more cleaner. Such as fireplace in a house can make massive difference on air quality.

[@nathanlucas6465]

@@ShadowManceri we've got a woos stove and it makes loads of dust. I'd have thought the ionizer would pull loads out of the air due to that

[@reburdoc4647]

Having a neighbor with a smelly chimney I used to draw air into the house past an ionizer through a large towel used as the filter and the towel was filthy when it's summer wash came around. Another chap I knew used to stand his ionizer on a carpet tile and change tile yearly. Best to clean needles points with a match stick it perks them up.

[@edgeeffect]

That carpet tile idea sounds like a golden idea!

[@kaitlyn__L]

@Dave Micolichek burning coal instead of wood most likely, which has sulphur in. sulphur mixed with hydrogen (from water, or also from the coal itself) can smell like rotten eggs.

[@ForWhomBellstols]

Charging carpet tile how? Im trying to understand concept to improve dust management on my ionizer.

[@kommanderoffice5392]

The exhaust gases on factories are sometimes filtered by using gigantic high voltage electrodes. The dust sticks to the electrodes, which are automatically hit by hammer, to make the dust fall down into a bucket below the electrodes.

[@darylcheshire1618]

That’s called a Cottrell smoke precitator. In lead smelters is an important source of zinc.

[@jameslaine2472]

When I was young, I had a 120V Sears air cleaner which had a removable frame of flat plates, on which dust would collect and I'd need to remove and wash it regularly. It was by far the best air filter I have ever used in my entire life. Watching this video, I now realise that it was probably an Ion generator with a positively charged frame of collection plates. I wish I still had that, or could buy another one today. All I see now are either only ion generators, or units with physical filters that need constant replacement ($$). That old washable dust-collecting frame was way more cost effective than replacing filters.

[@StubbyPhillips]

I used to work in a huge photo processing lab back in the day when there were such things. About 6,500 sq. ft of the 20,000 sq. ft facility was "clean space." We had a butt-load of gold multi-needle ion emitters hanging from the ceiling . They were connected to a couple of large HV (20kv I think) distribution units. Fun fact, the ceiling grid picked up a charge and could give you quite a zap if you forgot to de-energize the dust precipitation system before messing around up there. The ceiling was dirty, but the air was clean! Worth remembering is that unlike mechanical filtration, particle size doesn't matter. That's why electrostatic air cleaners are so effective. And NO, they don't all produce significant amounts of ozone. With a decent unit the proper size for the space, ozone will not accumulate, you just get very, very clean air.

[@GeorgeGeorge-xj2bc]

It is a fact that ionizing gives clean air and a beautiful hairstyle also and the electrostatic discharge is the best smartphone eliminator.

[@W4BIN]

Tygon (clear vinyl) tubing deteriorates when the "binders" evaporate and a stinky sticky residue covers it and anything that touches it. Like all plastics, it is only good temporary. Ron W4BIN

[@28YorkshireRose12]

You'd maybe like the "Air Handling Unit" we had a college where I worked in the 1980s. It was about as big as a classic 'Mini' and was installed to extract microscopic particulates from the air in the welding workshop. It took air from the shop, and ran it through what would, I assume, have been a massive ioniser before returning it to the heating and ventilation unit. Some air was wasted to the outside world, some fresh air was drawn into the ventilation plant, and some of the air was recycled to the workshops, but oh, how fresh that air felt as it cascaded down to the shop floor! - I guess it was just one of these units, but on an industrial scale?

[@phils4634]

Probably a commercial Precipitron. These were quite the thing in the "pre-HEPA" days for cleaning the air supply to operating theatre suites, and clean rooms in general. They are still very popular as air "pre-cleaner / conditioner systems", intended to take the filtration load off final HEPA / ULPA filters in critical environments - especially the microelectronics business, and so extend final filter lifespans (these large filter arrays being pretty costly to replace).. With solid-state HV side components, the only thing that dies with these would be the fans, so they should last a very long time (at least in principle).

[@sootikins]

Speaking of positively charged plates to capture negatively charged airborne stuff: that is exactly how commercial/industrial "electrostatic precipitators" work. Air is pulled thru the unit by a blower. Air first passes thru grid of neg. charged wires (ionizer). A few inches or feet downstream it passes thru a stack of pos. charged metal plates (collector). All the dirt sticks firmly to the collector plates. Depending on the unit the collector is either removed and washed in a hot tank, or cleaned in place automatically using pumps and hot water. These units are found in everything from dust mitigation systems to exhaust over restaurant grilles.

[@sootikins]

Small commercial units: www.smokeeters.com/smokeeter.htm

[@GregBakker]

Excellent discussion, have always wondered about these, thank-you.

[@Those_Weirdos]

“I’ve made several ionizers before” How many were intentional? :)

[@peterg.8245]

Everything is an ionizer if you use it wrong enough

[@wesleymays1931]

@@peterg.8245 Did you know there are USB ionizers? They don't use the data lines in any way, so by connecting the "needle" wire to both data lines, you make a USB killer without spending $200+

[@alexv.d.h.7331]

@@wesleymays1931 I think most usb ports are protected against shorting like that. When i accidentally shorted my pc like that it did indeed shut down but afterwards the usb port still works to this day.

[@sebastiangorka200]

@Dave Micolichek uhm, what if the cops are about to bust down your door? just plop it in and nobody gets the data thats like asking why a villans lair would have a self destruct button

[@sebastiangorka200]

@Dave Micolichek you sure it doesnt? what about SSDs?

[@SolaceOpossum]

I tried making myself an ionizer about a year ago, though there was a slight mishap with it. While reading different instructions on capacitors, some called for 22nF and some called for 100nF, somehow I got mixed up and got 220nF instead. So I now have an extremely beefy ionizer. Also like you, I accidentally made it a positive ionizer at first by mistake.

[@adjustablesquelch8535]

that ladder amplified reminds me of the old Maplin laser kit I bought sometime in the late 80s, way before cheap laser diodes. i think it was £100 in kit form, 2mw philips tube, big transformer then the ladder inside. powered off mains, whole thing was like 12"x3"x4". fun days, nobody had lasers back then, so i'd just shine into neighbours houses and when they spotted the dot (bad convervenge) would kinda freak out. hours of fun.

[@bigclivedotcom]

I've still got my Velleman HeNe laser. Very tight beam.

[@frogz]

still got my 2.6mw hene tube from american science and surplus, hasnt had a working supply for a while but my old supply for it had a 5 stage multiplier, i remember decreasing the output resistor without knowing about wattages, 1/4 watt carbon film resistors get toasty when you pull a few ma through them at a few kv peak

[@robturner3065]

We had one of those big orange ones (labgear? Unilab?) at school with a big fat dot. And they used to pour mercury into a dish and let us stick our fingers in it. Happy days....

[@ProdigalPorcupine]

bigclivedotcom - Any chance you could incorporate it into a video, Clive? I’m sure it’ll be very popular!

[@SkyChaserCom]

Nice to hear the word "corona" in this (and happier) context for a change :)

[@directive0]

Looks like right now we're all in the corona-zone.

[@AssistantCoreAQI]

This Corona Can Defeat The Corona.

[@GashimahironChl]

@@AssistantCoreAQI Fight fire with fire eh?

[@AssistantCoreAQI]

@@GashimahironChl We Can't Process That Expression. Similar Expressions May Be Used: - Approaching Terminus With Terminus. - Battle Of Origin To Origin. - Self Against Self.

[@hobbypyromane2.05]

cdcollura Funny thing is that many people watching this video in a few years won’t understand what we are talking about and why he hesitated after saying this 😂

[@Pyrolonn]

I remember I had one that came with an ionoscope so you cold detect the ions...and it worked! You could also get minor shocks if you listened to headphones close to the ion source. I had another one that was 12 volts for the car. It had little needles that had a purple glow. It created smelly ozone so I retired it to the up north cabin. I don't currently use one though.

[@rogerhargreaves2272]

This is a really interesting piece of science for what it does. I’ve heard of them but never actually used them. I’ve also got a Himalayan salt lamp; knowing full well it doesn’t ionise the air, it just looks nice. Thanks Clive.

[@JohnnyX50]

Iv got a salty lamp too. The quack that sold it my mum told her about it being good for people with lots of electrical items as it 'cleans the air', so she bought me one. I told her that the only thing its fit for is scraping onto your plate of pie and chips, and at best is an expensive way to very slightly de-humidify your room as it will attract water and start to disolve, as mine has at some edges with clear salty dribble marks on it. And as for electronics, it's more likely to start things rusting if saturated salt water particles get near them lol So its next to my bed as a night light as I put a defeatist LED pigmy bulb in it ( the spare one for my fridge lol ) I wonder if they will ever invent an LED replacement for an oven lamp.. o.O?

[@rogerhargreaves2272]

JohnnyX50 haha, yea, it looks pretty and very slightly dehumidifies the room. On the oven lamp idea, I’m not sure if an LED could withstand the temperature. Although LED lighting is common in modern refrigerators as it has no thermal impact. Keep safe. 👍

[@tp6335]

@@rogerhargreaves2272 you could use a led bulb and a lightpipe to light up your oven without having the circuitry in th heat

[@rogerhargreaves2272]

T P it’s possible; doing the math, a 3watt bulb compared to the wattage of running an oven? 👍 nice idea. 💯

[@ProfStuartHalliday]

Used several in a Computer Room. It removed dust particles before they go to the computers. The dust collected to a grounded plate which had a fluffy piece of cardboard which you replaced once a week.

[@Hagledesperado]

LED with no diode? So that would be an LE then?

[@andruloni]

ULEO - Unidentified Light Emitting Object

[@AttilaAsztalos]

Maybe they meant there's no diode in the opposite direction - so the LED is basically forced to conduct in the "wrong" direction by exceeding its maximum reverse voltage whenever the sine wave reverses...

[@andruloni]

@@AttilaAsztalos Why you gotta bring us down with your harsh truth, man? :)

[@deltab9768]

And that device in the drain pipe seems to be an improvised-er... ion emitting diode.

[@RaymondCore]

Negative ions are naturally created during lightening strikes, waterfalls, and you home shower. If you notice, you feel more like singing in the shower than in the bath. Truckers in the US have used negative ion generators to prevent 'white line fever' caused by the monotony of passing endless white stripes. The negative ions invigorate and are not suitable in the bedroom during sleep time. Nightclubs have used very large commercial units to keep the smoke levels down. I was in a club once where, do to the ceiling mount of the generators, the smoke stayed below the level of my table; a remarkable effect. St. Luke's Hospital in Philadelphia experimented with a burn patient, pumping his room with extreme concentration of negative ions to the point the patient felt no pain and needed no pain medication, which we all know will speed healing as pain medication retards healing. I currently live in Bangkok which often gets PM 2.5 air pollution so I bought a negative ion generator from a Chinese manufacturer and happy to have it as it also knocks down stray covid-19 aerosols. I've been a believer in the benefits of negative ions since the early 70s. Thank you for reminding everyone that they exist and are good to have. Good video; very informative. I want to find a Chizhevsky's chandelier now or find plans to make a copy. Maybe you can help.

[@frien_d]

Drop this channel and go door to door selling ionizers: I'm into buying multiple ones after this video.

[@tomleahy5383]

With more power!

[@MountainParameters]

Not sure what I like more, watching the video, or reading the comments, many of which make me jealous I did not think of them. For example, I learned from these videos that 2 of my 4 units are primarily ozone machines. Since we have lately been suffocating in the summers with forest fire smoke, my renewed interest in collecting as many of these as possible makes these videos all the more interesting. I recently did order some of the Chinese modules you refer to to prepare for next summer, and see how they may lend themselves to windowsills.

[@lwilton]

That clear plastic tubing looks like the vinyl tubing used for air supplies in aquariums. That stuff degrades and goes sticky over decades.

[@r0cketplumber]

The tubing sold with/for ozone generators should be resistant to that degradation.

[@Aco747lyte]

Super fun watching you tinker with these ionisers. Loved it.

[@jasonudall8614]

Clive . ever seen the "solid state" transformer used in some colour laser printers? Piezo electric transducer thingy.....tiny,5 mm square 30 mm long straight to 2kV followed by two layer of doubler.....

[@compactc9]

Myfavorite type of air cleaner is the electrostatic precipitator. Things like the Ionic Breeze that use fans or go in the HVAC system.

[@thebrowns5337]

The Isreali one having "lots of mountings for 'stuff'"...microphones, cameras...

[@heyarno]

Back in the day we made jokes how you know, the Soviets have bugged your room. The answer, you have a new wardrobe and it heats your room.

[@heyarno]

@@tomleahy5383 get lost

[@heyarno]

@Dave Micolichek reeeee!1!!

[@mjames2117]

Like the Israeli hardware firewalls spying on people

[@johno9507]

My cousin had one of these back in the 80's when I was a kid. I still remember the tingling feeling when you put your hands in front of it.

[@nrdesign1991]

I kinda want to build one, your videos about them have made me take an interest in them as well. Especially with 3D printers which apparently generate lots of tiny particles it might be a good idea to have one of those in the same room.

[@JazzyFizzleDrummers]

I'm an American and my folks used to have one much like this. I used to use paperclips to make it arc

[@ADR69]

Make that chandelier!

[@tomleahy5383]

Potting components in audio products is common practice to keep things secret

[@rogermckenzie2711]

I built a basic diode/capacitor negative ion generator many years ago, I now have it reconfigured with a protection resistor on/off switch and connected to a perimeter wire around my fish pond. Excellent cat deterrent!

[@werner.x]

"Stiftung Warentest" in Germany did once test some of these needle-type ionisators - they were hyped in evere electronic catalogue during the 70s. They said, they really did work, as far as i remember - causing the fine airborne dust particles to agglomerate, therefore getting heavy enough to sink to the bottom. Best did a model with a separate grounded strip, meant to be placed somewhere in the room opposite of the needles and from which the collected dust could be wiped of. But is it healthy for us to live in a negative charged atmosphere? Flocking surfaces by using electric charge harms our nervous system, if you do it long enough - so, is an ionisator harmless? I'd wish to know.

[@gazzarrr666]

I think it is good that they stop you breathing in all that fine dust. That being said, I'm not sure about the ozone they generate. Being a potent oxidizing agent - definitely bad for the lungs, at least!

[@MrBobWareham]

I made one many years ago when I was 20 I am now 73 and it worked very well the circuit was in amateur radio mag with a free PCB the same as the one in the video but the board was smaller but with the same layout caps and diodes I remember the table I had it on ended up covered in dust so thanks for the memory Bob in the UK

[@StephenEdwardsStepnage]

Clive I have been considering getting an ioniser for some time. I have a disabled parent and having cleaner air would most definitely help. Could you recommend a good ioniser?

[@bigclivedotcom]

That will depend on where in the world you live.

[@klausstock8020]

The Sharp Plasmacluster has been, as far as I remember, been clinically tested, successfully reducing infection rates. It's quite expensive. I am not aware of the product range, but at least some of the units are quipped with a washable HEPA filter. These are intended to clear lots of air more efficiently than the things which simply discharge electrons in the air. Of course, your parents might still have an old ionizer from the 1980s in the basement. The ones which display moving pictures. Color versions are better because they use a higher voltage. The Sony ones where the TV screen is covered with an additional sheet of glass don't work as well (same for some 1980s/1990s computer monitors where the screen sits behind a filter, some of which are even meant to discharge ions). Also found the report about the Sharp Plasmacluster (www.sharpindialimited.com/FINAL_H1N1_English.pdf). Quote: "The efficacy of Plasmacluster ions for inhibiting the infectivity of airborne viruses has been proven against the seasonal H1N1 human influenza virus, the H5N1 avian influenza virus, as well as *Corona*, SARS, Polio, and Coxsackie viruses." (highlight by me). Yep, a different sort of "Corona discharge".

[@bigclivedotcom]

@@klausstock8020 As soon as my plasmacluster unit arrived a few days ago I took it apart and did some tests on the ion generator. It's quite "hissy", even above the fan noise. The positive and negative modules are alternated between to produce alternate waves of positive and negative ions in the airflow. One interesting thing is that there appear to be rings in front of the emitter needles which I would normally associate with an ozone generator. They may just be accelerator rings. I didn't detect the same sort of surface charge as I'd expect from a traditional ioniser. When the extra ion block arrives I'll be doing some tests to convince myself that it's not just an ozone generator with a big fan to dilute the smell.

[@MervynPartin]

The dust deposition was the problem that led to us disposing of our ioniser. The manufacturers do not tell you that ionised dust is attracted to the nearest surface. In our case, the pyramid shaped device had vertical points and we noticed dark streaks appearing on the wall paper nearby. These became heavily ingrained and the marks could not be removed until the wallpaper was stripped. I wonder if the answer would be a larger device with an internal dust collecting surface, similar to the extremely effective electrostatic precipitators (eg. Sturtevant and Lodge Cotterell) at coal fired power stations I am amazed how many items that you have taken apart. You must have a warehouse full by now! Keep them coming.

[@CampGareth]

I've bought one of those USB ionisers you tore apart and plugged it into a sacrificial mains to USB adapter. Anecdotally it seems to help with hay-fever and airborne cat hair but it'd be very difficult to prove it's helping...

[@dashcamandy2242]

My mother (nonsmoker) once bought a Pollenex 1701 ionizer/air filter back when she became addicted with Home Shopping Club and QVC... I'm guessing sometime between 1993 and 1996. She set it on her nightstand and used it every night when she slept - for quite a few years until the filters became difficult to find. The fan developed a bit of a bearing rumble but still worked well, and my mother did report a consistent improvement in breathing at night. She was impressed enough at the beginning that she bought one for my grandmother (a smoker), too.

[@garettanderson6772]

I learned about ionisers in the later part of the 80's, that they supposedly helped remove skunk smell from the air.

[@bigclivedotcom]

Ozone generators are often used in the grow rooms.

[@RaymondCore]

@@bigclivedotcom I grew up in the second largest Ozone Belt apart from the Black Forest in Germany. In SE Louisiana there are many wholesale nursery farms as plants grow up to 50% faster in the presence of ozone. Negative ion generators, if poorly designed, emit some ozone but aren't supposed to. They are two different devices to do two completely different things.

[@tomleahy5383]

Would have to have a massive bank of generators for the skunks around here. I had one here, that woke me from a deep sleep it was so powerful, and the house was shut tight.

[@r0cketplumber]

@@bigclivedotcom Ozone, along with UV light sources, is popular for controlling mites. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpKUiIyCgMx8e5I And 222 nm UVC is skin- and eye-safe: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jovRZWBse81pZs0

[@TheSirGoreaxe]

You know what is another effective easy of dropping small particles out of the air? Percussive sound waves. Last year I spent two weeks at a small arms shop. And on the fridays we needed to test fire the M2A1 50 cal machine guns that had been refurbished. After test firing over 100 guns, on the ground in front of the gun mounts you could see a bunch of pollen that had been knocked out of the air laid about defining the pressure waves coming off the end of the barrels. Quite an impressive sight.

[@tiger12506]

oh clive, of course that's your handwriting, whose else could it be??

[@bobert4522]

I worked for hvac a few years back, we sold a unit that would go into the ductwork of your return air system. It worked off of the same principle of sending negative ions into the air before it got to the hepa filter. Actually still using one in our house.

[@GeorgeGeorge-xj2bc]

While trying to reduce EMI electromagnetic interference and the same time using ionizers these two things are completely opposite.

[@chems]

Instead of a multiplier could you use a small 2n3904 joule thief tesla coil? the ones that are so small they don't create any corona discharge, in theory it's just a high voltage pulsed DC right?

[@SueBobChicVid]

We had/(have?) electrostatic precipitators on the submarines I was on. I was in the electrical division and responsible for keeping them clean and working. Bane of our existence.

[@mickeybob28]

I was just going to coment about having them on my sub, lol

[@Milamberinx]

What problems did they cause?

[@glennchartrand5411]

We had them on Aircraft Carriers too for medical department. They were about a thousand times bigger than the one in the video and they completely filled the air duct. Everytime the contractors came on board to do work (which was almost everytime we pulled in port) the things would short out and have to be cleaned. We always sent a FNG with the written procedure and waited to see how long it took them to get knocked flat on their ass. For some reason instead of cleaning it , they would try to diagnose and "repair" it. Buck and 4 other random witnesses swore up and down that "ball lightening" chased Brown out the hatch and down the passageway. We had the replace the unit , it was completely destroyed, we never did figure out exactly what he did to it. My personal theory is he set all the fine dust on fire and it was attracted to him by his high state of opposite charge. After that only people who were specially trained were allowed to touch it. USS Ranger CV-61 circa 1988

[@SueBobChicVid]

@@Milamberinx Mostly just keeping them clean and running. There were two, and although I can't remember the exact size, they were big enough that when the modules were removed you could get inside them. Each module was about 2ft square (about - this is 30 years ago). Each module needed to be carried to the ultrasonic sink to be cleaned - one at a time. After cleaning one module it would need to be blown dry and the mucky water changed in the sink. There's not a lot of extra room on a submarine to move these modules around and stage them for cleaning. They all needed to come out before any could go back in. Then there were the inevitable problems with the power supplies that required troubleshooting and repair.

[@Peter_S_]

@@SueBobChicVid Thanks for that additional info. Two questions if I may, when you had power supply problems were they addressed through module swaps with the failed units getting repair in an on-board electronics shop? ...and... How large of a spare component inventory did you carry? Thanks!

[@johnfletcher1036]

In the 1980’s I had an ioniser from a firm called Scotcade. It had a fan to draw air into it with the first element in the air flow being a carbon fibre ribbon the air then passed through a removable metal mesh before exiting the front with another carbon fibre ribbon. This unit was effectively an electrostatic air cleaner followed by an ioniser. The metal mesh was intended to be cleaned in a dish washer before being replaced in the unit.

[@ryankelzenberg3453]

I wonder if that case was re-purposed since it already had two wire pass though on the side and the recess on the top could have been for an indicator light.

[@Peter_S_]

It's not that expensive to make molds and once you invest in that, the cost per case falls to a tiny fraction of the cost of buying them from a case maker. You make up the investment almost instantly or instantly with volume consumer products. This is a somewhat specialized shape box so I doubt it was made for anything else and it's made from three simple two-piece molds you could create in an afternoon at many makerspaces today.

[@android584]

Techmoan (if memory serves) showed an example of this where a company had acquired an existing case design rather than create a new one.

[@jrr832]

No, the case was made for Oasis, there were different front panels, some had on off switches and a fuse holders.

[@Ryan15T]

My grandparents had 2 in the house. They haven't been used in years now. One had a veneer wood look to it, which is the only one I can easily access at the moment. That unit was branded "Living Air" I still can't easily get the unit from it's resting place but I can at-least see it and it closely resembles what I can find online to be "Living Air Classic XL-15". Which from it's manual is a Positive/Negative Ion Generator as well as an Ozone Generator. It has a fan inside to pull air through the unit. It has 24-30 KV, 20-30Khz Ion Generation Pulsator. A fixed 6KV DC Needle Ion Generator. 400 CFM Fan, and it's Ozone output is 0-260 mg per hour. The other unit I know is quite interesting as it had a transparent plastic housing. It also had a fan and I assume did the same thing as the other unit. I always found them quite interesting but never bothered to look into it. The only reason I probably wouldn't be putting these back to use so much is because of what I would imagine is the Ozone Generator. It produces a really annoying electric sizzle sound. It seemed to work though as the transparent one I always remember being absolutely caked in dust all the time. I have recently discovered quite a plague of mold in the walls of the bedroom and without the money to properly fix it. I've had to leave it be and hope for the best.. I have noticed a slight decline in my health since discovering the mold in December 2019, but I'm not quite sure if it is due to the mold or other causes. But reading the specs on the purifier, saying it can work to sanitize an area to reduce mold, mildew and bacteria.. I might end up putting the unit back to use if it has the potential to help.

[@scratchpad7954]

4:55 "--And in a very dark room, you might see the tiniest, faintest purple corona glow..." And... _DEMONETIZED!!!!!_

[@Buttersausage]

Scratch Pad lol

[@staglomagnifico5711]

Shh! Don't tell KZbin's Fun Police.

[@mjdRx]

He said the NAUGHTY word 5-6 times. 😱🦠😷

[@tubastuff]

My home forced-air heating/cooling system uses an electronic air filter--basically, the air is passed over a series of wires and then through a series of plates, oppositely charged. The dirt is precipitated onto the plates, which are washed about once every month or two. It's been that way for at least 40 years. Sort of a mini Cottrell precipitator. I suspect that it's far more effective than an ionizer.

[@bigclivedotcom]

The ioniser basically just uses the room floor and walls as the collector. The downside being the mess, the upside being the silence.

[@DaveLennonCopeland]

I used to have (still got it somewhere) a black pyramid ioniser with the carbon fibre cord around and 2 inches from the top. I stopped using it after a while because it left a grey dirty mark on things that never had that dirt mark before... :)

[@rampage199125]

I installed a commercial modern version one of these into a Children Centre that was infilled into an existing Long Term Care Home. It was installed as an infection control measure as the AHU that services office staff (for the LTCH) serviced the Children Centre. Seniors and youth are always our most vulnerable to outbreaks.

[@Dead1yM]

Clive, could you do a video on insurance black boxes? Found an old one in a used car I bought and throwing it out seems so environmentally irresponsible, Can it be re-purposed for anything? can I log into its tracking server etc......

[@77thTrombone]

I'll bet it can be repurposed, but you'd need to be a EE or superGeek to do anything with it. I'll bet it's got a processor, some memory, embedded software (probably kept in the processor, and the in-chip memory is likely 1-time write (not reprogrammable,)) an OBD-II interface, and - the zesty part! - some kind of data link radio. No you won't be able to log into anything (Pentagon, Kremlin, Netflix, etc) with it; it sends data on a 1-way channel back to Actuaries-R-Us to support the self-inflicted Nanny state. Net: it would be best as a cool teardown.

[@Peter_S_]

Similar technology devices for purifying air are not only still with us, they're exceptionally common today because they work on nano-sized particles that mechanical filters miss. They are now integrated into HVAC systems and called "electrostatic air filters" or "electrostatic precipitators" and the dirty wall issue has been replaced by a dirty duct issue which is out of sight and out of mind. The forced air moving through them makes for a far more efficient application of ions and far more targeted collection of the particulate. I have a Heathkit unit from roughly 1980 and to clean it, you just slide the collection plate bundle out and place it in a dishwasher.

[@robquinton9835]

my mum had one like htis in the 80's.. me being me had to touch the little points sticking out at front and got a zap from it..

[@OffGridInvestor]

I would touch mine all the time and got nothing. Used to make a fluffy kind of buzz noise when it was running.

[@general0ne]

I have a couple of the "Ionic Breeze" units in my house, one is a Quadra, and the other is a knock - off called an Ion Pro. The quadra is on the bedroom level, and the Ion Pro is on the main level. Although they do emit ozone, I think they're about as close to a true ionizer that we have in the US (for home use, anyway)

[@richardbrobeck2384]

I think of it like with my old crt tv's how they collected dust on the inside around the anode lead attached to the picture tube

[@tomleahy5383]

That's high voltage from the flyback xformer. My uncle was a TV/radio repairman, and demonstrated the need to keep little fingers away from the high voltages, by inserting his neon test light near the high voltage supply (not attached) and, to my surprise, it lit up! He also created a high voltage shield from a coffee can!

[@T2D.SteveArcs]

Hi Clive love these little look at older tech vids .. i remember building a high voltage smoke precipitator (filter) when I was a little kid, it was my first HV projects, I got zapped a couple of times of course but that just added to the experience lol

[@killymxi]

Lol. Russian Ж is not like Z. It's like S in "pleasure".

[@ffmfg]

there's an alternative spelling of his last name - Tchijevsky - that might be easier to understand/pronounce for an English speaker.

[@killymxi]

@timetowaste English language has it's pronunciation and spelling terribly disconnected. We have to make sure we talk about pronunciation, and the same one. forvo.com/word/pleasure/#en has all examples sounding like I expect it - with the sound very close to Russian ж. I could've also said "It's like Z in azure" ( forvo.com/word/azure/#en ) - and it will be the same thing because we still talk about sound, not a distorted reflection of it in written language. It doesn't behave like your "regular" English Z, at least until it become a loan word, and that's the issue with this video.

[@freepress8451]

YT suggested your video short which brought me here, had mine in early 80's - the lack of moving parts . . led's etc. and with needles toddlers could touch, dispatched mine to the round filing cabinet.

[@pierreuntel1970]

Now the Chinese has made some dinky mains ionizer module that's even smaller than the UK plug, I tried them and they worked really good, even cheaper than buying 20+ capacitor and diodes for a DIY build and they comes with the carbon fibre tips, maybe try them out? They're potted so I couldn't open them... but it would be fun for a reversing engineering video I held the positive pin of an LED and touch the negative pin to its output and the LED glow while it won't light up if I reverse it, it is a real negative ion generator

[@bigclivedotcom]

I've got a tiny one sitting in acetone to see if it dissolves the resin. If that fails I'll have to bake it. The circuitry is usually like a strobe strike transformer, but fired on every mains cycle. Then a short multiplier.

[@kaashee]

Can you share the link

[@AiOinc1]

Now since the air has to be circulating, how fast can the air be moving before it becomes ineffective? You could put a filtered fan on one side of the ionizer and just have it very strong in a small box, and use the fan to bring air in to be cleaned. The filter would probably keep most of it inside the box. If the fan is moving the air too quickly, you might use a heater to cause a slight convection around it. That could keep things moving at a slow pace.

[@joenest2122]

My Mum had one of these in her bedroom where, every morning, she'd wake and then go downstairs for a cigarette.

[@seka1986]

Joe Nest wow, amazing.

[@blahblahblahblah2837]

Just like the (non-coeliac) gluten-free cool kids, who only eat organic to avoid pesticides, but then snort lines of MDMA and coke on the weekend that's been made in some back shed and cut with talcum powder and bleach.

[@starlite528]

Ionizers are still an important product/tool used in the semiconductor manufacturing industry. They're all over cleanrooms. I used to work at one of Texas Instruments' clean rooms and I asked one of the engineers to install one over a specific wafer loading machine, because without fail there would be a huge ESD spark when I moved the tray of wafers into the oven. Problem solved.

[@cherrybacon9790]

No dust particles were harmed in the making of this footage oO

[@pauljs75]

There's also ionizing filters, that have the same needle setup. But there's an addition of some kind of collector that catches all the material which precipitates from the air. Usually some screen or plastic membrane that is either oppositely charged or connected to ground. And the collecting filter part is supposed to get cleaned periodically. Usually they say not to mess with the ionizer needles, but they can be cleaned off with a piece of scrap styrofoam by poking the needle into it. That kind of thing isn't all that uncommon for forced air furnace filters.

[@jondycz]

Said corona, instantly demonetized.

[@GeorgeGeorge-xj2bc]

Beautiful electrostatic hairstyle.

[@DCice13]

Twice

[@krashd]

@eustace wozrite Some dinosaurs will say anything to stay relevant.

[@jondycz]

@eustace wozrite bruh stop with your BS conspiracy theories that 5G causes corona spread. I bet you have 1838 rolls of toilet paper at home.

[@genli5603]

@@jondycz You should have your high school diploma revoked if you don't know what the Great Game was.

[@robinwells8879]

I may be wrong but I think I may have worked with giant scaled up versions of these voltage multipliers for HV lab impulse testing electrical transmission equipment. We simulated lightening strikes on live transmission equipment to ensure that after a strike the voltage drops back below its natural partial discharge extinguishing level amongst other things like tan delta testing. The difference being the equipment I am thinking of is three stories high! I shall look closer next time.

[@CoastalSphinx]

For impulse testing probably "Marx generators" - did they have a bunch of relatively small spark gaps that all fired at once? Typical Marx generator circuit uses spark gaps as switches, to rapidly switch a bunch of charged capacitors into a series connection, creating a very high voltage pulse.

[@robinwells8879]

CoastalSphinx I am never close at the moment of firing but it is a tower of trays each with a capacitor array . It certainly discharges very rapidly and with a mechanical noise that I understand is to make it safe to re-enter the faraday chamber! The normal HV withstand is by transformer device.

[@robert36902]

There's something slightly scary about mains voltage going straight into the board with no transformer in sight

[@Ramog1000]

eh its perfectly fine, the resistors stop it from delivering any fatal current

[@baardkopperud]

Yes... But on the other hand, since you're going to multiply the voltage to thousands of volts anyway, transforming it down first seems a bit of a waste. Guess it would make sense if you used components that could only handle lower voltages...

[@chrisg6597]

What's more scary is that there's no fuse in either of the units taken apart, to protect against component failure.

[@baileyharrison1030]

Chris G there is probably a fuse in the plug. And even if there isn’t your circuit breaker would trip anyway.

[@android584]

I wonder what Kreosan could do with the concept!

[@tin2001]

I bought a neotec unit for work many years ago... Uses a very fine wire, and has a pair of steel plates behind it. A piece of paper is used as a filter between the 2, causing fine dust to cling to the paper. If you forget to change the filter paper, the dust eventually causes a bridge between the paper and wire... Which kind of makes it stop working. And yes, we all felt a lot better at work with that running.

[@raymondmucklow3793]

So you greenhouse gased everyone at work, nice. 😁

[@vylbird8014]

Nasty as ozone is, it's also quite unstable. It doesn't hang around long.

[@diGritz1]

I have a nickname from friends and family, Cyclops. This is because I have a habit of wearing a head light and forgetting I have it on. One of the effects of it, if it's pointed in the right direction, is the ability to see all the particulates floating around in the air. So much that it can look like a small snowstorm. Inside some houses it is so bad it can take your breath away.... pardon the pun. It gives anyone who see it an immediate appreciation for how incredibly well lungs work. Because no matter how clean you think your house is, the air isn't. It caused me to be a bit overprotective of my 76 year old mother and I put a couple air purifiers in her home. They didn't do much and I quickly realized the stuff in the air is being created at such a rate it's impossible to get ahead of it with anything but an industrial clean room quality filtration system.

[@zero0ryn]

I have an amcor ionizer its in the shape of a pyramid. It makes quite a loud hiss.

[@macronencer]

I built an ionizer once! Way back in about 1988 I worked in Maplin Electronics in Southampton, and I think it might have been one of their kits, because I would often buy and build those using my staff discount. I do remember being intrigued by the high voltages involved, and I could also hear it operating, as you mentioned in the video, if I held my ear quite close. I've no idea what became of mine, sadly. You've made me want to get another one now!

[@Martin-uf4ut]

Made down the road from JW John ward

[@charliepearce8767]

I had an ionizer in my car in thd 80s when i was in my 20s... If you put your finger on one of 4 pins it would make a noise with gathering intensity until you came into contact...Then any passengers you touched would be electrocuted with goos CRACK sound. Was fun to touch passengers noses to hear them complain..ha !

[@rayceeya8659]

Ultimately, that hot corona wire (no relationship to the virus) led to inexpensive ozone generators.

[@lloydtshare]

Yep it will still be generating ozone most likely not a lot tho

[@rayceeya8659]

@@lloydtshare I dunno, the one I have cranks it out pretty hard. I'm thinking of using it to build a makeshift decontamination chamber for my groceries.

[@lloydtshare]

@@rayceeya8659 geez I wouldn't use it then, ozone is bad for you

[@rayceeya8659]

@@lloydtshare for my groceries. Not for me. I know how toxic ozone is.

[@lloydtshare]

@@rayceeya8659 I'm losing my mind thinking of uvc lol

[@ppheanix]

In the 1970's we had a ionizer that was the shape of a small box 5" x 4" x 1" (W x D x H) with a 240V AC power cord at the back. The front facia had 4 holes each about 1/2" round and the ionizer pins located in the centre of the holes and setback inside so one could not touch them. Similar, but a smaller box than the one you reviewed in this video. In those days there was no requirement for an LED to indicate power ON. During operation, one could feel the cool ionized air coming from the pins inside when brought near one's lips, however, the volume of ionized air meant that this unit would be completely inadequate to process the air in a room. The circuitry inside was a series of diodes (I was just old enough to understand, but cannot remember the configuration) that I later came to know as a voltage multiplier. (I don't recall any capacitors). The total cost would have been around AU$5, but it sold for AU$20 !!

[@bigclivedotcom]

Ionisers don't aim to smash air through and filter it in the process. They put a charge into the air in the room and subtly precipitate the dust out. It's their subtle effect that makes people think they don't do anything.

[@ryanunderwood1798]

Clive, why are you forever tempting me to purchase one of these doo-dads?! (for real though, what model should I get because there are so many)

[@KrzysiuNet]

I think it would help in choice: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848581/ (you may simply skip to "conclusions" section).

[@zig131]

My lecturer claimed to have invented this concept with a smoker friend although maybe a more modern version of it. His friend smoked in the house and his wife complained. Apparently he used an 'old-fashioned style' of carbon fibre with rough split ends whereas those readily available now are smooth/sealed so electrons are less liable to drop-off. It was apparently very effective at clearing smoke from the air but hastened the nicotine staining of surfaces - especially the radiator. The effective albeit expensive solution was to buy conductive paper and wire it to the earthed radiator piping which could then be regularly replaced. I love the potential applications in keeping computers perpetually dust free without having to inhibit airflow with a mesh or dust filter. Of course the outside of the computer case being earthed would likely become a magnet for dust but that's a much easier surface to clean than component covered PCBs..

[@GeorgeWMays]

It takes a certain kind of person to watch an 18 minute video describing something that you can't see or hear. I watched the whole thing.... You too?

[@darylcheshire1618]

like going to church?

[@morterforker69]

Thanks for the video. Now I understand how the Ionic Breeze works and how much people got ripped off because it was so simple to make.

[@taylortroy55]

Barr ion 2 = pipe bomb I think the fbi is going to pay you a visit lol

[@gnic76]

On Isle of Man, more likely MI5 or equivalent.

[@davidhunt240]

I've got a few Medion "Airtone" ionisers, the originals made by Coppy Laws after his WW2 work on recovered German U-boats that used the Chizhevsky Chandelier to make the air fresher. They certainly do work and don't produce any ozone. They work on a flyback transformer with a much simpler circular array of ceramic capacitors, I think it is 600V per stage, it also runs off batteries as well as mains. There is also a "ionisation meter" essentially a resistor and a neon in a clear tube, the idea is you hold this tube towards the ioniser and it flashes once the breakdown voltage has been reached. It is very handy tool to measure when the needles and base electrode (the carrying handle) need cleaning. Amazingly, these little guys have been running more-or-less non stop for over 40 years. Sadly, the Medion business did involve quite a bit of quackery, not concentrating on the benefits of knocking crap out of the air, which I can certainly attest to, as after six months, the areas where the ionisers are has got rather dirty. Better on the wall than in the lungs I say! :D

[@daviddale4206]

Corona generator, eeek

[@andyxox4168]

Brings back memories, I had an interview with a company called mountain breeze in the late 80’s, they were in Skelmersdale New Town Industrial Estate and seemed to be a very touchy feely company … luckily I didn’t get the job and I went on to have a great career in Power Generation … 😀

[@luizmarxsenjr]

Beautiful (the first one), with a Cockcroft Walton voltage multiplier and 2 resistors is enough to perform as ionizer, his advantages are low weight, no electrical noises since there is no switching devices, easy to build, his components are easy to find and can work in 50Hz or 60Hz lines without difference. I remember when I build one of these with 18 polyester capacitors for perform experiments with high voltages...

[@lovotcore6946]

The way to do an ionizer without the dirt ending up on the walls is an electrostatic precipitator, the air is ionized, and then blown over a stack of grounded plates, particles are attracted to the plates and stick to them. The plates do need to be cleaned regularly to get rid of the garbage it's managed to precipitate out, but it's better to clean the plates than have crap stuck to your walls, or inside you. The ionized air is also attracted to the plates, but doesn't stick, so its entirely possible to make an electrostatic precipitator that doesn't need a fan to do it's job.

[@ppheanix]

During my electrical engineering degree at UNSW, we were treated to a visit to the High Voltage research facility where we saw a tower that looked like a tesla generator with a maze of oil filled diodes and capacitors that multiplied the voltage to the dome on top where the HV was discharged into the target under test.

[@SteveSummers]

Thanks Clive👍. That's really neat how those work.

[@3niknicholson]

Nice vid, I do remember some pubs had them in the bad old smoking days and the effect when they fired them up to clear the air late on was definitely noticeable and much fresher. I'm about to make one if I can raid my junk box for caps and diodes as my woodburner tends to deaden the air, and I reckon that could be positive ionization. Basically it's the heavy pre-thunderstorm feeling versus the fresh post-storm feeling, definitely true, shame about the Himalayan Lamp Woo Nonsense!

[@KL3NCH]

Thank you for this BC. We used to have one, the type you mentioned quite early in the video (Mountain Breeze was it?) but I have no idea where it is now. That means SWMBO has winged it when I wasn't looking because I very rarely throw anything out, or if I do I "harvest" it first!