Intel Delivers What AMD Couldn't: Great GPU Value

[@BattleToads]

The Intel B580 is the new AMD RX 580. Both cards had big VRAM reserves for their time and price while delivering solid performance. It's about time. The number 580 must be magic in tech. Except for the GeForce 580. Stay tf away from that thing.

[@puffyips]

Good vram not big

[@Jasterrrr]

RX580 is still holding up well for 1080p casual gamers. I have a friend who has RX580 and 1080p monitor. She just finished God of War Ragnarok in that card and had a good experience at decent visual qualit. Having 8GB of RAM really makes it useful even years after launch.

[@napowolf]

GTX580 was alright. It was GTX480 that had teething issues.

[@TheHangarHobbit]

Except as it isn't as unlike the GOAT RX580 this is a paper launch. Don't take my word look at Amazon, Microcenter and Best Buy, if the 3 biggest retailers in the USA can't get the card during the biggest holiday for new GPU sales? It is a paper launch. According to Tom at MLID they are going to trickle out just enough cards to meet the stipulations of the TSMC contract and then stick a fork ARC is done, as they are losing between $30-$60 per card on Battlemage.

[@fiqirr]

​@@TheHangarHobbitlistening to Tom this card literally shouldn't exist. The intel discrete graphics division would have been gutted long ago. Paper launch or not Intel is moving on the right direction with immense pressure at all sides.

[@baryonyx9642]

Radeon is surfing the Nvidia price wave. Hopefully they pay the price for it. The difference between the 6000 series and the 7000 is seriously so bad.

[@alrecks619]

what monopolistic duopoly does to a consumer market, even though the other manufacturer is considered to be "inferior" lmao.

[@LeonardTavast]

The problem for AMD is the high costs for their graphics cards. They only have a few percent profit on their cards and can't really do any price cuts.

[@LordApophis100]

@@LeonardTavast Gamers still pay up for Nvidia, even if AMD is the better value. So they have to really weight their options when dropping prices does not increase sales significantly.

[@tomthomas3499]

That's because there's still alot of 6000 series available, had they drop 7000 series further more, 6000 series will be rotting in shelf and probably made many aibs angry, they should've done what Nvidia has been doing, artificially limiting production to control market availability to keep price high.

[@ws1-p9u]

The problem is that the gaming GPU market is now ancillary to what the manufacturers (NVidia, AMD, Intel) are focused on, and want to increase their focus on, which is GPGPU compute. This is not going to change anytime soon. I.e. gamers are going to get only the attention that these manufactures can afford to divert from their push into the more important and profitable market. Basically the GPGPU Compute market has eaten the GPU Gaming market.

[@malcaniscsm5184]

Why say "AMD couldn't" when it's "AMD wouldn't"?

[@siggeee1]

Was thinking the same thing

[@Wund3rBr3d]

Because AMD doesn't sell cards at a loss lol

[@CaptainKenway]

Because it makes for better clickbait. Intel is burning money trying to establish Arc. AMD already went through that phase a long time ago, before coming to the conclusion that most people will just buy Nvidia anyway. And that was before DLSS or ray tracing or other "features" that the Nvidia fanbase (and tech reviewers when it's convenient) bring up these days, back when it was pretty much just a straight rasterization shootout. Let's see if whatever soulless MBA that Intel eventually bring in to replace Pat is willing to keep dumping money into the bottomless pit.

[@GrainGrown]

@@CaptainKenway *NVIDIA

[@Angel7black]

Its cause content creators always have to tread carefully and use kid gloves when addressing AMD doing greedy corporate bullshit. Tribalism is wild and they have spent years cultivating a dogmatic fanbase. The good thing about Intel getting into the market is because theyre a big and well known and hated name, they’ll never be able to get away with the bullshit AMD does while playing second fiddle to to Nvidia. They’ll be called out immediately as they should be anything they fuck up or do some scumbag shit. Which means they’ll be forced to live up to a higher standard than AMD ever has.

[@LordApophis100]

When discussing pricing, don't forget that Nvidia squeezes the AIBs to the max, while AMD actually leaves some margins to their partners.

[@alilokhd4638]

Rumours: of rtx 5060 ti 16gb and 5060 with 8gb vram Nvidia: As long as xbox Series S exists, an 8gb vram gpus exists

[@b_s_p_k]

@@alilokhd4638 as long as people would pay 8gb would exist

[@cin2110]

amd is also rumored to have a 8gb 8600 f**k em man.

[@anarchonda7273]

I guess there may be a 12GB version using 4x3GB dies rather than the common 2GB. So instead of offering a 8x2GB(16GB) variant they will use and settle with 4x3GB(12GB). xx60 series cards offering more VRAM than the xx70s makes little sense.

[@alilokhd4638]

@@anarchonda7273 they could've gone with GDDR6 or GDDR6X with 12/16GB and a narrow bus or wider one. why they do it since the gaming industry is going to develop for Xbox Series S in mind. plus they want you to buy the high stack version of the card for more money and more profits. since 2018 we didn't see a generation leap in perfs/prices. we get the same perf for more money

[@davidhines7592]

@@anarchonda7273 in isolation yes. but when even 1080p games will struggle on 8gb from now on, because devs are going mandatory raytracing, they need to snap out of keeping vram for gaming cards below what is plenty for productivity aimed cards like xx70 and up. the people buying 4070 plainly dont need more vram or they'd throw money higher up. gamers who are poor are being let down by this fixed market - looks like intel is the only way to go but they need drivers that play old games as well as the new. once they sort out drivers nvidia will probably give up and concentrate on the corporate AI whales who dont understand what they are buying so are willing to pay ten times what AI cards are worth.

[@kaithong8482]

The b580 is literally what the market needs But whether the consumers or "normies" would choose them is another question... Most of them would still consume Nvidia's slop with 8gb , a xx50 performance renamed in a higher sku

[@jon880215]

You're right, but I guess it's up to us enthusiasts to spread the good word about these GPUs. I'm very brand-agnostic, but what Linus said about 'not forgetting who got us to this price' really resonates with me. AMD and Nvidia will definitely lower prices and try to compete in this 'new price bracket,' but we absolutely cannot afford to lose the third player in the game.

[@paulszki]

That's with every hobby really. people just buy the popular thing because everbody is overwhelmed by everything nowawadays and "it's popular for a reason, right?"-logic. Buy a boardgame asa present? Why of course, let's grab "monopoly - big bang edition" or some other slob, making every boardgamer cringe. Or people thinking, they've got inside knowledge because they know catan. I'm sure I'm doing the same in many areas of my life, where people in the know are just slapping their foreheads at my buying decisions.

[@LordApophis100]

@@jon880215 I don't expect AMD and Nvidia to react as Intel is not gearing for a big launch. They can't afford to lose that much money selling them at this price point in large quantities.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

The B580 simply isn't good enough tbh. Better price and performance than a 4060 sure, but the 4060 was heavily criticized foor poor performance and pricing. And it's a two year old card.

[@toivopro]

@@Patrick-y4d1z But its a 250 dollar card everyone screams. And the real price is 300-350 and no stock. DOA...

[@Ramshackle6984]

Textures > RT no doubt. STALKER 2 uses only RT lighting. The noise and FPS hit in that game is significant. It's a shame because the game would run and look much better imo if Lumen/RT was toggleable. With Ultra textures on however it uses upwards of 11-12GB of VRAM and barely changes the FPS in my experience (7900 GRE 3440x1440p).

[@zjunk4877]

When a game uses only RT it would be a LOT more work to allow you to toggle it off. Difficulty scale is RT

[@arekb5951]

Lumen is another level of f'd up when it comes to ray tracing. The lower quality RT is always software based for some reason, which is obviously slower than doing the same amount of RT on specialized hardware. UE5 games that use software lumen could run much faster on every card with hardware RT support (yes, radeon too), but for some reason, the part of the silicon that's made for tracing rays is completely ignored and all the RT calculations are done on general purpose cores of the GPU. No wonder why RT is disregarded by gamers, when most of its lighter implementations are completely botched, and the ones that make the most difference are out of reach for the most.

[@mleise8292]

Lumen with it's noise, sparkling in the dark and disocclusion ghosting, ugh. I'm frustrated every time I see it used in a dark game with 99% static scenery. Use GPU Lightmass pls.

[@Rachit0904]

@@arekb5951 Software Lumen does something simpler that doesn’t benefit from hardware RT acceleration. Epic isn’t that stupid.

[@Rachit0904]

@@mleise8292 I suspect they can tune Lumen better for static games. But it seems nobody has the incentive to invest in that. Maybe CD Projekt? 🤞🏽

[@leeloodog]

My opinion: Battlemage doesn’t exist in a vacuum-it’s not just about dGPUs or whether Intel is executing well right now. A lot of the R&D here likely extends to other areas like integrated GPUs (which are critical for laptops) and especially the datacenter. While their datacenter efforts aren’t going smoothly, the tech developed for ARC and Battlemage could still play a major role in AI, compute acceleration, and cloud services down the line (and vice versa which muddies these costs discussions). This isn’t just about competing with NVIDIA and AMD today-it’s about building a foundation for the future. Sure, Intel’s GPUs aren’t as efficient as NVIDIA or AMD yet, but that’s not unreasonable for a 2nd-gen product. The trajectory seems to be there. By focusing on low-cost designs and razor-thin margins, there’s a world where Intel can do just enough to stay in the game while catching up. And honestly, I think they need a lot of this tech across their ecosystem-whether for laptops, data centers, or beyond. This is what I think is happening, and it seems pretty rational to me. The loss vs not is complex, because it does factor in RND. Other than releasing this during the crypto boom, being fully competitive and highly profitable when you are going up against nvidia especially is a challenge. I do see a world where they can catch up to amd, and they really have to worry about AMD more in the AI realm as the second competitor.... Buidling on their datacenter capabilities or building those up seem key. Also 4060 is on a more expensive advanced node. I think this GPU (video games) for them though isn't the most important thing in the world now, but if they could keep it going at a limited cost just kind of doing what they are doing, as long as it doesn't detract but rather enhance from CPU and Datacenter tech and i see it aligning. It really does align with a lot of their "moat" and business. What I'm saying is it may not be coming at as much of a net cost as it would seem and that is supported by some of their reorgs (blending this into dc). I'll leave it with this. I dont' think this GPU is going to save intel by any means nor is it going to kill it, but it's solid execution given where they are at and the timing of everything. Otherwise there are so many issues with Intel right now it difficult to unpack it all. They probably need to continue to streamline the company a lot and focus on high growth areas where they can win of course, but taking some strategic opportunity and doing just enough like this can make sense.... AND defend markets they have. I'd imagine this is somewhat in that sphere for them. For the fab stuff they will need a lot more help, and more than anything that's what's hampered them here, not gpus. It would be a huge shame if fabs didn't work out because they have a lot of the fundamentals, and we really need it for security, but I'm not sure ti's reasonable for intel to set up an entire echo system w/o a much more broad base of support. That was the issue I saw over the last few years. While there needs to be a way to make that work, it can't be solely intel's problem they are just a company and maybe that was Pat's failing thinking he could will it. I bringing this up because in my view when i look at intel this is the elephant in the room. We all need to figure this out fast. I don't think it's going to be that easy to find random companies to pick this up and intel is by far the best candidate for fabs. My view that's the more interesting thing to be worried about. The gpu will just cook in the background until it's competitive and mean while blended into profitable products. Clearly there are a lot of money to be made in gpus and their tech relates to many things including datacenter, advanced computing and ai. I think the investment makes sense. i also have the a750, and ordered this. The cards work well at this point. It's a great price.

[@qT_p13]

Didnt read it, but nodding my head in approval.

[@LordApophis100]

Battlemage is a disaster for Intel, it has a lot of waste silicon to the point Intel giving fake transistor numbers. Relative to AMD/Nvidia, Battlemage is still a generation or two behind, Intel didn't get any closer. Now they try the fake MSRP thing to get good reviews. They probably won't drop Arc, but already hinted they might cancel discrete GPUs and focus on HPC and APUs. They fired Pat because he lost too much money, the next CEO will have to do cuts everywhere, they can't afford to waste that much money on desktop GPUs.

[@leeloodog]

​@@LordApophis100 My entire point is while it's possible it's a disaster for them, what you see from a "margin" perspective is expected where they stand and much of the critical discussion doesn't bring in the larger discussion about what intel is trying to accomplish and why they are doing this not (gpus). I don't understand what fake msrp means. They literally said they are selling it cheaper to build a market. That seems reasonble. If they sold this for the same price as a 4060 they were worried people wouldn't buy it. In fact in some cases they are better than amd having a proper ai upscaler. That silicon is for other things than raster, nvida is a better comparison. I also will point out again including RND cost w/o more justification makes limited sense to me, that's it's not something they are already going to do. There is a significant cost of inaction: What if they aren't able to put a decent igpu in their cpus, data center, etc. It's much the same technology. Nvidia and Amd are getting in Intels sandbox more and more (nvidia implementing cpus) , amd now with a competent cpu platform and already better gpus. intel needs to worry about not just builders, but the large manufactures. They need to defend their moat. I would have been surprised if they could beat amd this generation. I think next generation they will have the ability to do that now that they've demonstrated software. I don't think they can beat nvidia in the near term, and they will need to deal with that. That would be my guess. Fabs: While i think we need fabs, my take is that making it entirely Intel's problem doesn't seem realistic and is a similarly overview of what it means to bring back minimal manufacturing here. I base this statement on the raw capital cost with only two decent sized customers. This is what's making them less competitive. You actually need to be able to do something with manufacturing, and if we are going to do this as a country we should attempt to do it more broadly. For years ahead they are a generation 2 expecting them to be entirely competitive with competitors that have been doing this for 15+ years ahead of them doesn't seem unreasonable. It would take a few generations. The problem they had with v2 it looked like bad assumptions based on their igpu experience, then it was about sorting out software while releasing a v2. Now that they have a v2, they need to work on efficiency. So you release a lower powered card that's interesting in an underserved market with limited margin. It seems like a reasonable strategy.

[@DB-cu3xu]

Intel checked all the boxes on what a value shopper is looking for in a GPU. This will continue to be a very successful GPU launch especially if Intel can squeeze more performance out of these cards with driver updates.

[@lucazani2730]

At this point it's not about drivers, just about the supply. I'm sure they will figure drivers out considering how much improvement there has been to the drivers in the past two years. However I'm a bit worried Intel will be able to deliver this amazing value cards only with limited supply for a long time

[@liberteus]

To be a successful launch you'd need to be able to actually buy the cards. There's not stock anywhere for a reason: apparently Intel is losing money on these cards. Intel wanted a PR win, they got one, and neither AMD nor Nvidia is fooled by the move, and won't adjust their pricing for next Gen. People unable to buy b580 will end up buying AMD or Nvidia.

[@patriotthinking]

The price increased compared to last gen also it's value compared to the soon to be previous version of graphics card nor upcoming generation of GPU. Only this is right with Intel GPU is the vram. If it was 8GB even then people will not accept it at $200 caz we already have a750 at that price and no one wants it.

[@mrmistmonster]

@@liberteus the "losing money" might just mean that the total capital costs have so far exceeded profits. Not that the cost of manufacturing each card exceeds the selling price. Fixed vs variable costs.

[@herroberbesserwisser7331]

I just wish it would have had pcie 16x. Like... Why does it use 8x? My am4 system will be pcie bandwidth limited....

[@alrecks619]

all AMD needs to do is to drop the "50% margins" fuddy duddy on lower end and midrange parts, doesn't matter if it'll anger their shareholders, it's not like they actually care about the company's longevity, but rather only wants to see line go up.

[@vyor8837]

They don't sell anyway.

[@ZAGAN-OZ]

They do not make 50% margin in GPUs lol. Its probably 30-35% for the most high end SKU and it get slower and you cut it down.

[@vyor8837]

@@ZAGAN-OZ tis Nvidia with 50% margins

[@pelle7771]

The question for AMD is probably simple: donI earn more money with a Market share of 12% and 50% margin or with 35% and 10% margin. I do fear that the first one is the higher number. And even if they had a much better value of their products, a lot of people would still buy Nvidia. Like Intel has a market share of 0.x%, because their drivers were bad two years ago. 😂

[@BarAlexC]

@@ZAGAN-OZ Nvidia was more like in the 60s%. With AI chips it's hundreds%. AMD is definitely not below 50% margins on gaming GPUs...

[@drhouse6234]

Amd needs to do aggressive price cuts for their GPU's.

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

Indeed. This won't have much of an effect to Nvidia. It will to AMD though

[@drhouse6234]

@Patrick-y4d1z For high end no it won't effect Nvidia. But for 5070 and 5060 it might be a different situation.

[@jacobpipers]

​@Patrick-y4d1z and in less then 1 month amd and nvidia will announce gpus that are better cost per frame...

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

@@drhouse6234 I highly doubt it. AMD is more established than Intel and lost market share to the 4060. I can't see Intel chipping away at the 5060 in the slightest either. This would need to be a multi-generational attempt to take over the low-end. A single generation will do nothing, we're talking at least 3/4 generations.

[@drhouse6234]

@@Patrick-y4d1z No it is more like a domino effect. If this gpu forces AMD to makes aggressive price cuts without a doubt it will effect Nvidia. 4060 sold as well as it did because 7600 was terribly priced.

[@rng81]

What about the value in other countries though? Here in Germany the B580 is sold at 330€ while a 4060 can be had for 300€.

[@iankovac1878]

I have checked Newegg here in the USA, everyday after launch. Msrp cards are gone. $350-429, USD. Just trying to get a kid an upgrade from a 1650 4g for christmas, fking sucks :(

[@ZnakerFIN]

At least here in Finland, our biggest tech youtube channel said that Intel refused to give an MSRP for EU. As a result, at least in Finland, the Arc cards are something like ~80€ higher price than they would be if following the MSRP given for US.

[@Tubes78]

Same in The Netherlands, the intel cards are priced above the 4060 making it non option.

[@DarioCastellarin]

Here in Italy the Sparkle one is selling for 285€, but only two retailers actually stock them.

[@DesFTW_]

It looks like the aib ones have better pricing in Europe, also consider the US MSRP is a pre-tax amount. Availability is still far below demand though

[@Maitreya3001]

What I'm really excited about is that Intel seems to have made a lot of progress for the Vulkan API. For example in games like RDR2 which uses Vulkan the B580 is performing quite good. I wonder what the implication is on Linux gaming as most of what Linux gaming is at the moment is translating Direct X calls into Vulkan.

[@DarioCastellarin]

@@Maitreya3001 check out the Linux benchmarks on Phoronix

[@Aeddy35]

B580 drops below 50 FPS at 1080p High. Hardly impressive for a six year-old Xbox One game.

[@jakubjanicki9148]

If i was in the market for a gpu, I would buy the b580

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

What if the 5060 comes out at the same performance but like £20 more and half the power draw?

[@pedro.alcatra]

@@Patrick-y4d1z If it does. Next year we will have the same deal again. "What if the 6060 comes at the same performance but like £20 more and half the power draw?" How long you have to wait to it becomes a waiting game or a buy now?

[@alexsmith8571]

⁠@@pedro.alcatraCES is in 3 weeks dude… not very long

[@kintustis]

As an Arc owner, all I can do is beg you to stay away

[@riyoriyote]

​​@@alexsmith8571 Supposedly CES is for the leading 5090/5080 launch. 5060 is unlikely until later in the year.

[@finkitsallover]

A lot of mid range builders upgraded to 30 Series and are going to be holding off on an upgrade for one or two more gens. If Intel can keep this level of improvement up I think a lot of people who purchased 3060-3070 tier cards a couple years ago will try out an Intel card as many of those people feel burnt by Nvidia and AMD we will have to see...

[@JETSFAN2017]

I would love to upgrade my 3070. Hopefully to a 5080 but with Nvidias pricing it probably won’t happen lol

[@Met1900]

Intel needs to pull out the b770 with a good price target. I really think they are now good enough to compete. XE2 is really impressive, especially raytracing.

[@DavidLee-cr4xv]

The issue is that there are none on store shelves now. And any available are sold be scalpers for $400

[@MinosML]

Scalpers really should get scalped shouldn't they.

[@team316tech7]

Been building systems for a living for over 20yrs and genuinely couldn’t give 2 💩’s about ray tracing! Performance should always be the key selling point. Regardless of brand.

[@gasracing5000]

Unfortunately the "plan" is to bake ray tracing and upscaling into games as the base settings, using ai neural engines to drive it... I agree with your stance, but the industry doesn't. The era of slop programming and investor driven development paths is here... Press (F) to pay respect to pure raster gaming, may it's wake last a few years. 🍻🤜🤛🏾😮‍💨

[@TheCgOrion]

When Turing released RT was completely not important, and even the launch of the 30 Series, but now it is just starting to have a little importance. It's still pathetic, and worse looking in many titles, but I wouldn't want a new card without it, now that titles like Indiana Jones exist. Vram is more important in that title than RT performance, but RT is required.

[@hquan1]

Sadly they will eventually make more games with forced hardware RT and probably nvidia will sponsor these games 😢

[@jlgroovetek]

I said the same thing when AA first came around, and my GeForce 2 MX sucked at it, but now it's not only refined technology, it's a crucial piece of the puzzle to achieving good image quality. RT will refine and improve over time, just the same. We can't always be stuck in the past.

[@Leahi84]

​@@hquan1PC gaming is quickly going to become something for the elite only at this rate I fear.

[@renereiche]

Over the last two years you guys have become my favorite hardware channel. You deliver insane quantities of tested systems and game titles, your graphs are brilliantly easy to read, you point out interesting analytical points to the charts and have your own opinions - of which I don't always agree, but at least you have opinions and fair arguments for those opinions instead of just swimming with mass sentiment. Lately Tim put out the best interview with Tom Peterson I've ever seen (and I've seen quite a few with that guy), so congrats on that. One point of criticism: When you put out your opinions about ray tracing, it feels like RAY TRACING (the tech) is not good as it is right now (too high performance impact, not game-changing enough, bad noise). Instead you should say that developers are often using the tech as some afterthought addon to make PC enthusiast happy and get to check that marketing checkbox. It's almost always the fault of the devs (or the user friendliness of game engines and gpu vendor dev tools). In your videos, it mostly sounds like you're blaming ray tracing as a technology itself instead of its implementation.

[@Krexus_Prime]

So the LE edition is already gone. The only listing I’ve seen was for ~280 euro’s. A good deal to be sure. I was wondering if I could OC it in order to approach 7700xt performance. But alas, that listing was gone the moment I clicked on it :) Third party ones like Sparkle or Gunnir are available but at a price point around 320-330 euro’s. To me, that is not a good deal for some rgb and a bigger cooler.

[@akihitokoizumi2474]

Intel is selling at a loss and selling as few as possible. Board partners are selling for a small profit. This move by intel is to look good to investors as their fabs and cpu divisions are doing terrible.

[@vvhitevvizard_]

@@akihitokoizumi2474 how can you be so sure? The chip itself is about $115 to make, plus $40 GDDR6, $75 for the card and logistics.

[@pedro.alcatra]

@@akihitokoizumi2474 I don't thing Intel are selling at loss. They absolutely are not. We are just too accustomed with Intel and AMD getting 50% margins on each sale

[@tomthomas3499]

@@Krexus_Prime That's how starved the market is for good budget gpu, now everyone trying to get one including scalpers, kinda like 4090 but on the opposite end of the spectrum 😂

[@JustYash7890]

There's no way you're gonna get 7700 XT level of performance with that card.

[@UnluckyDomino]

Make a video to compare performance with weaker CPUs. Intel's drivers have some rough CPU overhead problems. And most people buying a card in this class will be playing with older weaker CPUs than all you reviewers use, like 10th/11th gen and Ryzen 3600/5600. B580 causes much higher CPU usage, than an RX 7600 or 4060, and hurts gaming perf

[@ridleyroid9060]

Bump, I want to see this as an owner of a R5 5600.

[@keanuchampion]

To think I bought a 3080ti with less vram than this for over 1000 makes me feel sick

[@Noblesteed17]

That’s tough buddy no lie…

[@dawienel1142]

3080Ti has 12GB Vram. Also bought one and regretted it. My 4070TiS is much better.

[@GrainGrown]

The same amount of VRAM, but the RTX 3080 Ti has twice the bandwidth. Also, the 3080 Ti has more performance. Also, 3+ years ago... So what are you crying about?

[@Uthleber]

Fafo. I picked a 6800 XT instead of 3080 bc of the 10 GB.

[@qT_p13]

My gtx 980 had less vram too, and was considerably more expensive tha the b580. Dude the 3080ti was during a mining boom 3 years ago, was considerably more powerful and in a totally different class. Not sure what your conplaint is here tbh

[@neuplop]

I think that the vram discussion ends quickly when you note that 16gb of vram gddr6 (the one that the 3060ti uses for example) cost 12$ for a repair shop. Who knows how much will cost for a manufacturer but probably way less.

[@killercage2]

$12 is for the vram alone. But adding more vram isn’t the whole picture. There’s all sorts of other adjustments you need to do in order to make use of the added vram and all those other changes are what adds up in GPU cost when you add more vram

[@neuplop]

@killercage2 I'm talking about 16gb that work on a 3060 8gb model btw you can look for that mod online. The reason the 4060 has 8gb is cause it's built like a 4050

[@qarim350xd]

Amd is surfing nvidias price waves. Intel is surfing AMDs price waves

[@e2rqey]

Radeon made themselves "Nvidia at home". For too high a price for that to be viable.

[@FlakAttack0]

The complete success of the B580 launch is the proof that all AMD needed to do is lower their prices.

[@Blaquegold]

CPUs saved AMD. I believe GPUs will save intel. Either way, fanboys aside, we need these 2 companies to do well on both fronts.

[@GreyDeathVaccine]

Not enough profit to save Intel.

[@kerotomas1]

I don't believe in Arc and Battlemage at all. Apparently all of the higher end cards have been cancelled so the B580 is all we get - which is not much. And the Intel dev guy said that Arc is invaluable for their iGPU and APU development which basically hints the true focus of Intel. They gonna ditch Arc the second they become competitive with AMD APUs.

[@xjax8519]

Only ARM gpu save GPU market !

[@Blaquegold]

AMD started from somewhere right? Did people not say they didn’t believe in AMD when it came to gpus? Remember all the problems? If people gave up on them would they be what they are now? People say they want change in the gpu wars but when change comes people want to write them off despite what company it is.

[@patrickstar3820]

I guess we'll pretend like the RX 6800 & RX 6700 xt don't exist

[@fracturedlife1393]

Playing ACC on 7900 xtx Nitro and 240hz OLED, for 4080 money, was enough to tempt me.

[@andyderp6473]

got lucky with my 6800xt really, 16 gbs, the 7800xt is basically the same and so on, but AMDs just as evil as team green see the 5800x launch price, brand loyalty is dumb I'm just buying whoever gives me what I want at the best price with drivers of course that's a basic need.

[@Chibicat2024]

37:50 MLID should learn about the subject. It has been the only straw he has been able to hold on to to justify his horrible take. Most of the comments bringing this point come from his videos.

[@IHazPeppers]

Wish we got weekly podcasts. Going a month without one is a killer. I fall to sleep to this stuff and need my nighttime tech podcasts 😅😴

[@MK-fk2nk]

4080 Super owner here. I didn't want to buy from Nvidia tbh, but AMD left me no choice smh. Their prices for the feature set in comparison is just nonsensical.

[@ravijotsingh7831]

AMD with RX7600 pissed on the heads of people while saying "Hello, buy me suckers or spend more on a Nvidia" Intel is the saviour and AMD messed up hard. Now RX7600 not even that good for even $180 once intel B580 price drops to $220.

[@mjc0961]

The only thing about the B580 that I'm waiting to see if how it stacks against NVIDIA and AMD's upcoming new generation. Intel may be in a good spot against the current lineup but that doesn't mean much when said lineup is at the end of it's life. Nvidia and AMD both have the chance to crush the B580. Nvidia probably won't, and AMD almost never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity, so Intel is probably safe. But still, wait and see (not that there's much choice, B580 is out of stock)

[@Sly_404]

It’s not intended to compete with next gen. It’s an entry level card that offers more Ram.

[@LordApophis100]

Intel is not really in a good spot considering they sell it at a loss.

[@kerotomas1]

@@Sly_404 But i'm a 100% sure RDNA 4 won't have 8gb of vram which makes the B580 instantly irrelevant. Intel messed up the launch timing. You don't launch a card 1 month before the competitors' next gen while you can only compete with current gen.

[@liquidcorundum6568]

@@kerotomas1 I'm not sure Intel had any better options. The drivers are better at launch this time but there are still important game-specific bugs to work out. I strongly suspect that had they launched much earlier, Battlemage's drivers would not be ready and the media reception would be worse.

[@NoSpamForYou]

If B770 comes out for $400 it will destroy RTX 5060 value proposition.

[@rrekki9320]

Gamers bought dogshit 1050s over the RX580 in droves despite costing more than the RX580...Price doesnt matter, Nvidias slop gets bought anyway.

[@mjc0961]

RX580 was just a slightly overclocked RX480 and was at the height of AMD's drivers being the absolute worst. Of course people bought GeForce instead. There's more factors to consider than just price.

[@rouhollahseyfi]

Rx 580 was in the same price range with 1060 not 1050, and it got a lot of market share, but AMD didn't have anything to follow that up.

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

Most sane Radeon Fanboy lmfao

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

@@mjc0961 don't try it, radeon and their users just don't get it

[@samgoff5289]

Didnt the 1060 compete with rx580….pretty sure you are rewriting history to fit your narrative

[@maikschindler197]

My biggest concern with the B580 is that the prices arent that low because the production cost is low but because intel is just eating the losses. The die is just too big at 272 mm2 to be provitable especially if you consider the millions in R&D cost that they have. This is good for us right now but is not really something that can be sustained in the long run.

[@WayStedYou]

Let alone the driver team expense to keep updating it constantly. Its barely beating a 4060 at work 159mm and losing to the 4060ti with more vram that is 188mm and is almost the size of a 4070ti die at 294mm but selling for basically 500 less. Nvidia could put out their next 5060 8gb at 250 bucks and squash this thing. And have a 16gb variant for 300 and be making more than intel is right now.

[@zeitgeistx5239]

Leakers have been saying that Arc discrete GPU is effectively cancelled. That Battlemage will only be a limited release because they were so deep into the production process when they decided to pull it. Design work for Celestial is already done so it will likely show up in mobile. But the leaks appear to be true because stock for Battlemage disappeared on day 1. Moore’s Law Is Dead has long claimed that Battlemage won’t be a real launch as there will be hardly be any stock available. That Intel is doing the Battlemage launch so they can tell shareholders that they met their product roadmap.

[@habana7638]

Only see Intel B580 with 8Gb and over 320 euros...

[@Sejbo8000Gaming]

Intel arent eating losses they are making money on these cards but the profit margins are lower than you would typically see. They buy things in bulk which gives a huge discount. They are also using an older nm die which also makes it cheaper than current gen amd and Nvidia. Nvidia and AMD usually target double margins so they earn back double or more high end and goes for 50% in the low end. This is sustainable but because of the smaller margins the investors may back out. They also mention in this video that intel is making money but not as much as you would expect. It is important to mention that the GPU division has not made a profit but that is unrelated to the B580 and most startup divisions and companies operate that way until they make enough profit to get out of that.

[@lycanthoss]

@@zeitgeistx5239 MLID is wrong as commonly as he is right, so everything he says is a 50/50. Also the low stock doesn't necessarily indicate that Intel is cancelling. Everything that Intel has recently made on TSMC fabs has been low supply - desktop Ultra 200 series, Lunar Lake, Battlemage.

[@simmooz3528]

Intel delivers… not enough stock. Also you gotta stop calling it a $250 dollar card. It’s £270-300 preorder in the uk

[@alexsmith8571]

I find the positivity a little surface level. I know its addressed but two points are so important that are being brushed over: 1. Intel is already in a terrible spot financially and these cards are not making them any money. The more they sell, the worse for their business, therefore supply will never likely be high. I don’t trust these “suppliers”. Intel has a tendency to pay people to say things. 2. CES IS 3 WEEKS AWAY… granted the low range will be less affected than mid and high, but price to performance is going to completely shift.

[@jakacresnar5855]

nVidia or AMD won't release 5060/8600-class cards for months and Intel knows it. They have a decent window still, even after CES announcements.

[@alexsmith8571]

@@jakacresnar5855 i believe rx8600 is expected to launch by end of January. You’re right ab 5060 tho. We will see

[@jojobetzler3732]

@@alexsmith8571 Lets see where the productstack of AMD ends. The RX 7600 released six months after the 7900 XT(X).

[@jakacresnar5855]

@@alexsmith8571 if that's true (and it might be, given AMD's statements about wanting to increase market share and not competing in the high end), that does shorten the window a lot. That said, if AMD releases a competing part at more than $250 that has less VRAM, or doesn't perform as well, or is just a repeat of the 7600, they're back to shooting themselves in the foot and it's actually a good thing for Intel. I don't want AMD to fail, don't get me wrong. I want Intel and AMD both to succeed and slaughter each other on performance and pricing while leaving nVidia in the dust, so that people realize there are better value products in this segment (sub $300) than the trash nVidia tried to unload on us these last two gens. Let them have their halo products and their ovepriced midrange. I am pissed about the midrange especially since that's where I usually hang out and where the really good value usually landed, the xx70 class cards. But for a lot, and I do mean a LOT of people, a good card at sub $300 is where it's at. It's a market segment nVidia and AMD are ignoring at their own peril.

[@vvhitevvizard_]

gratz, Intel! much needed competition! Nvidia and AMD playing duopoly was a mere disaster for consumers.

[@nipa5961]

Sadly, there still is no value. Cheapest B580 card is 329€.

[@astranger448]

EU prices includes sales tax so the price you see is the one you pay. US prices don't include sales tax so they pay more than what you see. US price + 21% sales tax/VAT (my EU VAT/sales tax) comes pretty close to 329€.

[@CrackDavidson1]

They apparently start at 340€ here. You can get a RX 7600 for 270€ and a 4060 for 310€ (290€ in one sale). So really no reason to get it here unfortunately. 7600 XT is also 330€ in one sale.

[@nipa5961]

@@astranger448 Very true. Problem is a 3 years old 6750XT is the same price right now and it was on sale regularly for 290-300€ for well over a year already. Unfortunately Intel can't even compete with old RDNA2 cards and RDNA4 is only 1-2 months away.

[@nipa5961]

@astranger448 Very true. Problem is a 3 years old 6750XT is the same price right now and it was on sale regularly for 290-300€ for well over a year already. Unfortunately Intel can't even compete with old RDNA2 cards and RDNA4 is only 1-2 months away.

[@nipa5961]

@@astranger448 3 years old 6750XT is the same price right now and it was on sale regularly for 290-300€ for well over a year already. Unfortunately Intel can't even compete with old RDNA2 cards and RDNA4 is only 1-2 months away.

[@DreadyBearBoi]

AMD literally had a moment where they were heavily discounting Radeon and it was selling out not too long ago. They just stopped the minute it started going well because they likely thought people would keep buying even if prices went back up, that never happens.

[@tapioorankiaalto2457]

In an ideal world VRAM is something that gamers shouldn't have to worry about, like RAM. You get 32 or 64 gigs and EVERY game fits in there without exceptions. In this world however giving us less VRAM means higher margins and that means more returns for investors.

[@alistermunro7090]

In an ideal world we wouldn't have entitled peasants...

[@JohnAlzayat]

@@alistermunro7090 Wanting a functioning product is not being entitled lmao. But sure keep on keeping on Alister.

[@alistermunro7090]

@@JohnAlzayat It's being entitled when the peasants cry over price as many do, hence the 8GB cards exist. If you want better, pay more. Perhaps some should be thinking about work rather than games thus could afford better...

[@chanzeyu1]

​@@alistermunro7090 Yeah I'm sure the people who bought the 3070 were peasants too. 499 USD is quite a sum for 8 GB. What a clown.

[@24avenged24]

It's a paper launch in Canada at least, the only retailer taking pre-orders told me this morning they now don't expect to receive their (first) shipment until the new year.

[@guille92h]

In Spain the Arc B580 didn't even get to retailers.

[@Augusto9588]

It didn't get to retailers anywhere because it's a paper launch to fool people into believing that Intel can deliver good products, and HWUB bought the lie(or were paid off)

[@aggies11]

Garlic Wizard?? - Hearing steve and his family fighting colds, I was expecting another quest to a mountain top to visit the garlic wizard. Or at least an update on how effective it's been!

[@TheHardwareUnboxedPodcast]

haha well I've been taking it every second day or so and I'm a lot less sick than everyone around me. What you attribute that to is nearly impossible to say, but I am getting 'less-sick' than I was.

[@dare2liv_nlove]

Coming back here after the rediscovery of the Arc B580 overhead issues... Unfortunately this didn't age well, haha! 😅

[@rhythmmandal3377]

@27:33 It's not complete BS. The 4060 Ti 16 gig is crap value. And people still bought the damn things order of magnitudes more that either 7800xt or 7700xt. I doubt the 7700xt and 7800xt even did anything to make people think twice.

[@Lebon19]

I have decided that, in my next PC, I would buy an Intel GPU because, honnestly, I've haven't been using my EVGA (Rip) GeForce RTX 3070 Ti that much besides some video encoding.

[@IHazPeppers]

Love falling to sleep to these tech podcasts.

[@josephscott2071]

A potential fine wine effect.

[@imo098765]

Tim, people dont want to buy AMD We've seen it before 1050Ti vs RX570, The 570 in a tier above but still people bought a 1050Ti I believe Steve made videos about getting a 570 and a new PSU still being more value than just a 1050Ti alone.

[@dominofanatic4649]

Thanks for the awesome thumbnail, guys! Loving Tim's expression!!!🤣

[@shaytal100]

Rumor has it, intel selling the B580 at a loss and therefore they won't produce anything close to demand. If that is right, it won't change any prices in the mid range gpus sadly.

[@Vasharan]

I think the B580 is getting a lot of hype, because people are sick of nvidia (rightly so). But from HUB's own testing, it's only 6.9% faster than the 4060 at 1080p and 14% slower with Ray Tracing. That's not an overwhelming advantage; if anything, I think the entire lineup of low end cards this gen, including 4060, 7600 XT and B580, are pretty underwhelming for users. Sure, it's $50 cheaper in theory than 4060, but I'd rather intel had made a card that's 30% faster at the same price point as nvidia than one that's only 7% faster, for a bit cheaper. Granted, that may not have been within their technical and foundry skills, it's impressive they're as good as they are right now, but it's not a knockout card either. 12-16 months from now, it will be "too slow" to play AAA games, especially as more and more games are shoveling "Ray Tracing Required" to even run (Metro Exodus EE, FF VII Rebirth, Indiana Jones, Avatar Way of Water).

[@b130610]

Really hope this card makes a dent in the low end market, but im still cautious about supply. I was looking all morning on launch day, and everything even close to msrp was instantly out of stock. If intel is willing to make no money, or even a loss on these gpus, thats great, but with pat being pushed out, im not so sure anymore.

[@SolomanTiger]

I dont know who skipped out on the RX 7600 a year ago and is all the sudden looking at spending the same money for similar performance with less stability. I dont want less competition in the GPU market either but the value here doesnt make sense especially when you consider the 1% low issues and occasional driver problems.

[@blaineeybers893]

ask intel where the stock ? when there is b580 on the shelves then you can say they deliver

[@PixelatedWolf2077]

They're not gonna be able to ship any during Christmas lmao no one's working that much then

[@Heatranoveryou]

Not sure how you got the idea that it isnt a paper launch when even publicly available info suggests its a paper launch.

[@haroldasraz]

Came here for B580 and stayed cause of the gardening.

[@rangersmith4652]

If reviewers were to say gamers should consider a similarly-performing Radeon card at price parity with Nvidia instead of constantly saying Radeon cards MUST be priced at Nvidia price minus some percentage to be worthy of consideration, gamers very likely would buy more Radeon cards. Reviewers may not be doing it intentionally, but they're supporting Nvidia domination. Steve did it in spades in this very podcast.

[@TheHardwareUnboxedPodcast]

You can blame reviewers all you want, that's just cope though. Reviewers don't control the market, they're not nearly as influential and powerful as you make out, AMD is just doing a shit job and you need to accept that.

[@rangersmith4652]

@@TheHardwareUnboxedPodcast I do not accept that. Reviewers are not called "influencers" for nothing.

[@evannucci85]

​@@rangersmith4652 hey guys. Lisa sue here. Next Radeon will be 50% less cost too comparable Nvidia card

[@Brokegamerboii]

Amd does have good value, you just have to buy when the new model releases, I bought the 6950xt for less than half msrp when the 7000 series was about to launch

[@pino_de_vogel]

I had the same with my vacuum cleaner. i was sick and tired of cleaning so went and bought one and im amazed how accurate it is and how it is stll learning every day.

[@paul_wiggin]

"Intel delivers" - literally no stock available at the moment and not great stock expected.

[@timlaunyc]

Intel cancelling Larrabee gave nVidia the market, including it's eventual market leadership in AI. Cancelling Arc would be the next step towards a dead Intel.

[@slickrounder6045]

Great to see Intel hit a rare home run, finally brining back quality entry level / mainstream Gpu's, with good price, performance, and Vram. Props to Intel for also drastically improving their drivers and game compatibility and being on top of issues to nip them in the bud swiftly. Intel Drivers also age like fine wine, and no doubt cards like the B580 will have improved performance over time on some of the games that it's currently a bit lacking with, thus furthering its lead over the competition. Hopefully we can get some quality midrange Battlemage Gpu's like the B770 that can do well. By the time it releases it will have to compete with Rdna 4 and Rtx 5000 series Gpu's, but atleast we know it will have solid Vram, and if it's performance and pricing hit the right marks like the B580 did, it can also be successful, and lead to a more robust Battlemage lineup that will be extremely competitive.

[@patrikmiskovic791]

New rx 480 gpu , perfect low-mid range gpu. Too bad its almost paper release , nowhere to buy .

[@Boofski]

Shame it costs about the same as the RX6750XT here in Europe. Better of just waiting for the 5060 and 8600XT the B580 isn’t worth it.

[@McSluntTheSecond]

I get people to buy radeon cards where it makes sense. I had someone buy a 7900 XTX for $1800nz cause it performs the same or edges out the 4080 Super in raster. The latter card costs $2200-2500nz. The extra 8GB vram is a bonus too. I got a radeon 6800 instead of a 3070/ti. After 6+ years, I'm not 'upgrading' my graphics to something with the same damn 8GB vram as my old 1070. I suspect I am one of the several dozen people who actually tells others to buy radeons.

[@bradeinarsen]

Steve's reco for DHI really makes that product attractive. Not there yet but want to get one!

[@Augusto9588]

No, Intel did not deliver anything because you can't even find the thing if you want to buy it, and that's with the very few people who are even interested in it in the first place.

[@SmarterGaming]

The laptop sales greatly effect the RTX 4060 numbers on steam...add prebuilt desktops... it's not DIY

[@Petch85]

What? 1. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 is at 5.0% 2. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Laptop GPU is at 4.9% 3. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 is at 3.8%

[@youtubevanced4900]

B580 delivery is delayed until mid January in Australia. I got an order in as soon as it was available at PCCG. Just got the email telling me about the delay.

[@FafthriechRalofson]

I am one of those "I bought Radeon because fuck Nvidia" I grabbed a 6950xt for $700 at the time because I wasn't willing to spend $675 on the worse performing 4070. I didn't care about frame gen or Ray tracing I just wanted a card that could do well giving me 90+fps in whatever game I was playing. Then I grabbed a 7900xtx because I wasn't willing to pay $1300+ on a 4080 with a 12vhpwr cable I didn't trust.

[@mutantbaby1672]

Imagine writing a video title dunking on AMD instead of nvidia.

[@duikmans]

Intel can now offer CPU-GPU competitively priced combo's for pre-builds.

[@soulshinobi]

"AMD never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

[@navisoul-oi8mo]

That could be said for intel too. And not true for AMD ryzen

[@spladam3845]

Air 3s was a great purchase and a great combo, well done, it's an amazing aircraft. Even the smaller Mini 4 Pro laughs at windy days.

[@genasgenas]

6750xt in UK is £300 , more Fps and no driver issues. B580 - £259 I like this chanel because you guys honest and professional. But I think I see some cash under your table , probably Intel accidently dropped it. Recommending B580? It cant even beat 2022 gpu in value , and in 2 months new Gen gpu coming out. So best advice is to wait for it.

[@NootNoot.]

AMD will most definitely have a 8600 8GB and 8600 XT 16GB. Performance aside, it will be embarrassing if they think they can price their 8GB card more than the B580 or even the B570 10GB at MSRP $219. Also the fact that they have to heavily catch up in RT AND FSR Upscaling with ML (argument at this point that US is a selling point). Wishful thinking they release the 8600 XT 16GB at no more than $300. At least an argument can be made there where 33% more VRAM than B580 for 20% higher price. Of course it would really sweeten the deal if they caught up to at least the B580 in RT and have FSR Upscaling with ML. But since it's AMD, 0 expectations lmao. If they think can get away with whatever brand power they have vs Intel, and min/max margins yet again, we will be seeing memes once again.

[@darreno1450]

RT is unrealistic in cards at these $250 - 300 price levels. All perform poorly, even the Nvidia cards. RT, IMO, only starts to make sense from upper-midrange and higher and even then, in most situations, it's not used.

[@pastelink6767]

Its not couldn't its wouldn't. This card has a WAY higher BOM cost than AMD's performance equivalent. Intel isn't making a profit on these. This card is basically the definition of no bad products only bad prices. From a technical standpoint for the amount of silicon and the node used it is pretty unimpressive.

[@JakeTaco83]

biggest problem with the 7600xt is that the 6700xt was still available for less (most of the time) and sadly kicked its butt.

[@JasonMoon111]

"4060 and 7600 are not bad cards". Yes and no. They are just as fast as previous cards which are 4-6 years old. But they costs the same. That's stagnation.

[@mrich70]

I can’t believe people throw away performance by playing at ultra settings. I never play past high and get an excellent gameplay experience. Ultra is stupid!

[@RN1441]

@28:00 between 1995 and end 2017 I only used AMD in my home machines for gaming. The reason I reluctantly switched to Nvidia then was just because AMD wanted too much money for whatever they were selling that was losing badly to the 1080, especially not with their 'difficult to love' drivers. I've been looking for an excuse to go back since, but AMD just seems addicted to own goals. I wanted to go for a 6800xt but somehow Nvidia had 3060ti's on the shelf but AMD didn't. When I watched how greedy Nvidia was getting with the overpriced 4080 for a 192 bit midrange bus width I though AMD would be back with the 7000 series. Turns out the wanted to price themselves out of the market instead and have successfully turned Nvidia's greed into their own market share collapse below 10%. Both lost that generation so I went with a used 3080. If Intel had a 16GB card, I'd consider it as AMD needs to figure out the have substantial negative brand value at this point, not positive.

[@kim_4298]

Has anyone try intel arc on Modded Skyrim? i really want to buy B580 when available in my country to replace my old gpu

[@cjeffcoatjr]

Asking the real questions

[@carisi2k11]

I think Intels CPU problem has come down to there little big design for gaming and entry level products. How many games use 16 cores these days or any of the small cores. Pretty much none. They should focus on 4-8 core CPUS that are fast. This is where AMD enjoys there biggest sales and not the higher core counts. 9800, 7800, 7600, 5700 and 5600 cpu's and their variants is where people are buying. Focus on getting more bang for the power buck and look at a more consumer friendly socket and better priced motherboard options.

[@traversharty]

This has be a paper launch in my region, listings posted but zero stock since launch. It's still sad that a 2020 midrange GPU will outperforms the B580 and by a fair margin. Hopefully AMD will finally have a good launch in a few weeks. Nvidia don't seem to care anymore at all.

[@Tkozuh]

Yep, I used to only buy nvidia, until i got an rx6900xt for a really good price. Great card, no issues. I have had it for 2 years now. Correction 3 years

[@davidhines7592]

they cast the pod but does it catch anything?

[@toivopro]

But look at the real price! Where can you get it for 250? In Eu it starts at over 300 eur. And in Estonia it starts at 350 eur. Thats a very bad price. Why is there no follow up or price update info...

[@mareksz.429]

In Poland B580 actally cost 370$...not so close to 250-270$ ;( 4060 is cheaper as well as 7600 is

[@astranger448]

EU prices include sales tax/VAT. US prices don't include the sales tax so they pay more than listed price. 250 +21% (sales tax here) is 300.

[@lillexus5589]

​@@mareksz.429zamow se przez Holandie, tu kosztuje tak 320 euro. Na Megekko albo Azerty lub podobne.

[@b130610]

Even in the us, the only available models are 350 plus.

[@lokidoki525]

The vat copers again. When were you born 2024? Until 2023 electronics used to be same price with us​@@astranger448

[@mraltoid19]

A comparison with Older High-End cards on the used market? Arc B580 vs GTX580 Arc B580 vs RX-580 Arc B580 vs GTX-1080-Ti Arc B580 vs RX-5700XT Arc B580 vs RTX-2080 (Super) Arc B580 vs RTX 2070 Super Arc B580 vs RTX 3060 12GB

[@LynruBF]

I hope that intel keeps making price/performance gpus and hope they will make midrange gpus too. Would be nice to see a competitor for geforce's 70 class and radeon's 800 class gpus

[@TechnoLadz]

@ 27:30 I agree there are some cards that don't meet what AMD needed. But there are a few which did particularly well. Mainly; the RX 7900 XTX and RX 7800 XT. Because they did what was needed. They were at or below their MSRPs for most of their life but giving an extra tier of performance for the same price. (7800 XT v 4060 Ti 16GB, 7900 XTX v 4070 Ti OG) The others don't match that. If AMD did: $229 7600 (with eventual price drop to $199) $279 7600 XT (with epd to $239) $379 7700 XT (with epd to $349) $499 7800 XT + 7900 GRE (with epd to $429) $699 7900 XT (with epd to $549) $899 7900 XTX (with epd to $799) Then that line up would've done well.

[@jojobetzler3732]

In Europe the 7900XTX is still not a good buy, even with the RTX 4000 prices ramp up, since they´re EoL. The only AIB models under 1000 Euro are the Sapphire Pulse, the Asus Dual, the AsRock PG and the Hellhound. The "good" cards, in name the Nitro+ and the Taichi, are both at the same price level of the cheaper 4080S models from PNY, Zotac, Inno3D and Palit. In my opinion the 7900XTX Nitro+ needed to be at 900 Euro peak to even consider it against the 1050 Euro PNY 4080S XLR8 I´ve bought.

[@jakacresnar5855]

all the value and price arguments sadly go right out the window in Europe. Usually the B580 is at price parity with the 4060, which feels a LOT different to a $50 discount.

[@tilapiadave3234]

Move

[@jakacresnar5855]

@tilapiadave3234 ok

[@LordApophis100]

@@tilapiadave3234 You won't find one at MSRP in the US either. Reviewers fell for Intel's fake MSRP...

[@tilapiadave3234]

@@LordApophis100 Sorry your parents failed to see what a mistake you would be. Guess what ,, is a VERY rare thing for a brand new release to be at MSRP immediately ,, Jesus save us all from defects like you

[@Yaan]

Intel delivers what nvidia couldn't. Thats what you should say.

[@TheHardwareUnboxedPodcast]

Nvidia don't have to, AMD does, so no.

[@adi6293]

So for Steve's birthday he bought his daughter a drone? Such a good dad 🤪

[@sergeleon1163]

It's not only offering a certain performance for value pricewise, but also at the same time higher image quality when using XESS vs FSR, more efficent texture compression etc.

[@ydfhlx5923]

Intel said something AMD doesn't understand: "We don't price our products. The market does."

[@miguelriobello7264]

Let's just hope intel can afford keep selling them at that price.