$128 Billion & 3 Decades! What's Going on With California's High Speed Rail?

[@WizenedVariations1]

Too many people making too much money doing everything except building the HSR itself.

[@JohnJackson-e9z]

Typical government waste, fraud, abuse, and corruption.

[@WaitNoIdidntMean]

Get this. A congress man wants to end funding for this project and redirect money to - you guessed it, Highway Widening projects

[@TheRailwayDrone]

Typical. No matter how many more lanes you build, traffic will STILL be terrible.

[@WaitNoIdidntMean]

@@TheRailwayDrone Exactly! The US really needs to stop investing in roads and fund more rail projects, especially CHSR

[@TheRailwayDrone]

@WaitNoIdidntMean AGREED!

[@Uvoted4this]

If you turn that new Lane into a 250 mph self-driving electric cars only that would instantly make the train obsolete

[@TheRailwayDrone]

@@Uvoted4this That is almost like a train you're describing.

[@jamesau4296]

You shouldn't expect Asian speed of building the high-speed rail when construction work are at least 10 times more expensive(also eating out in USA is more expensive where often American pay $11 for Mcdonald meal while in Japan cost $4).

[@ninadsbhatt100]

But incomes are aloso high so its all kinda same relatively

[@jamesau4296]

@@ninadsbhatt100 But don't forget the two main cost for airplane (fuel, airplane purchase) are same across the world, that makes on relative term, it would be more expensive to run high speed train than airplane relative to poorer country like Indonesia.

[@AL5520]

​@@ninadsbhatt100 No it's not as the income is higher but the taxes you pay provides far less services that you need to pay for them on your own and the costs are far higher than other places around the world.

[@kingsolm9791]

The main issue is that the legal system is too complicated, making high-speed rail projects inefficient and less feasible. Plus, the cost estimates are way too high, and the budget doubles before they even finish building. Modern America really struggle at infrastructure.

[@stevens1041]

Japan and South Korea are both high income countries with high wages. People in USA should be asking why their projects uniquely cost so much. The answer probably isn't a good one.

[@okwatever3582]

when this is complete, places like indonesia and china already have ten to a hundren times more miles of rails already in operation

[@AL5520]

If you're talking on full high speed rail than any country with the shortest segment has more than the US. China does have the bigest HSR network with no competition but Indonesianjust open their first line which is 88 mi long with planes to expend it in the future. The longest network in Asia (excluding China) is in Japan with a out 1800 mi with Turkey behind with about 1600 mi. Spain has the second largest network in the world (After China) with about 2600 mi and France has a bit more than Japan. - all also have more lines under construction.

[@Dog.soldier1950]

They have higher population density

[@AL5520]

@@Dog.soldier1950 California has the same density as Spain and pretty similar area (Spain is a about 25% larger in size of both area and population) an has the 2nd biggest high speed rail network in the world. What matters is not the general density but how dense are the areas where people live an the distances between them. The US is not a dens country but 82%of the population lives in urban areas and those account for abour 3% of the total size of the US and there are countless of areas where HSR is perfect for. Start connecting those areas with high speed lines and later on connecting the different sections into a national one. That's how the older rail network was built, that's how you built the national highway system (a far slower transport methos and yet it connects the whole country with a planned netwrok).

[@rmwarriors16]

This will never get completed. Waste of money.

[@scotttild]

@@AL5520The problem in the U.S with high speed is that it does not work, our major cities are too far away. This boondoggle will never be finished and it is not even high speed. Who wants to go by train for 6 hours when you can fly in 1 or 2. EU still has limited domestic air travel and it’s expensive.

[@DexterBachman]

The Obama Administration awarded California $2.5 billion in ARRA funds in 2009 with the stipulation that the money be spent within a certain time frame as the funds were for American Reinvestment and Recovery. The only section of California High-Speed Rail that had environmental clearance was in the Central Valley so it was the only segment capable of being constructed within the time limit and so the only segment eligible for funds. The ARRA award also stipulated that the funds were to be spent in the Central Valley. It may have been better to start construction on the Bay Area peninsula, which would have pleased Sen. Wiener's constituents, but if California had refused the ARRA funds then there would be no High-Speed Rail construction.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

Exactly. Prop 1A funds weren’t available yet and State cap & trade didn’t start until I think 2014, so that ARRA grant was crucial to getting things started. Plus the Central Valley is the only realistic place to test trains at their top speeds, and had to be built at some point anyway.

[@davidpadilla8964]

Californian here. Native to Los Angeles.20+ Years Lived in Tulare for about 1 year. Got to love Visalia , Hanford , Bakersfield , Fresno. I think you must live there to understand these towns need to be connected to LA & SF for economic & transportation reasons. I believe you too will fall in love with A Weekend At Shaver Lake. No cap.

[@ivani3237]

Totaly agree, even if i live 9500 km from LA

[@onlinesavant]

All environmental plans for every segment of the system have been approved.

[@timgerk3262]

Yes, for the SF-LA/Anaheim segment. Phase 2 extensions Merced-Sacramento and LA-San Diego have been greatly delayed. This is perhaps a planning error: a Central Valley backbone from Sacramento Airport to Bakersfield would have been a tangible foundation, with ready connections at Modesto and Sacramento to existing Amtrak-operated & ACE commuter services.

[@georgewolfiii1170]

But the land still has to be acquired, and and all the geotechnical studies done.

[@onlinesavant]

@georgewolfiii1170 I think the land HAS been acquired, and the "geotechnical studies" are a part of the environmental review process if I'm not mistaken. The thing that is holding up the actual building at this point is the financing, and I'm thinking that that issue is being mapped out, and planned for. I did the research, and I know that the state's "cap and trade" taxation on polluters is the biggest financing mechanism in this. However, it doesn't bring in nearly enough revenue to finance the whole project all at once. However, I'm sure that chspr is, and will be relying on bonds, leveraged against future revenue streams to finance the future segments, but the agency is not going to do everything all at once.

[@scotttild]

And every time they change the slightest thing another one has to be done and guess who makes a profit every time they have to do another one. Friends of Nancy.

[@onlinesavant]

@scotttild Where's your evidence of this?

[@passatboi]

San Jose to SF is around 50-60 miles, not km. So about an hour on the Caltrain tracks.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

It’s 48 rail miles between 4th and King Station in SF and San Jose Diridon. 51 miles were electrified between SF and Tamien, which is the next station south of San Jose and the last one on the Caltrain-owned corridor. A little ways past Tamien is CP Lick, where ownership of the tracks transitions to Union Pacific.

[@JailbreakTips]

I am confused. at 8:40 you say "Even though California is probably the 5th biggest economy in the world, it is just a state. And central, not a local government, has funded all other high speed rail projects in the world" What does "central government mean"? In the US, would that be the federal government?

[@agntdrake]

Yes, you pay both State and Federal income taxes in California. You pay between 10% and 37% of your income to the federal government and another 1% to 12.5% to the state government.

[@Yoboji]

Yes, that would be the US Federal Government. The way budget works in US states is that they cannot hold debt - the budget must be even at the end of every year. Unfortunately for California with the way its taxation system works - heavily reliant on tech companies stock performance, it's not possible to fund the train that well. Another major problem with state funding is that California has a law in its constitution that makes it law that the government must transfer any surplus revenue above $10 billion or so back to the taxpayer. So like last year - I got $300 back in a check at the end of the year. California has a massive $150 billion budget surplus last year. If that went into the train it would pay for the funding overnight. This year, looks like tech stocks are doing really well as well - Nvidia and all the other AI companies (almost all Californian). Same thing is going to happen.

[@johnl5316]

@@Yoboji The central gov should not be finding this intrastate project at all. It is for Ca. Ca should find 100% of it. It is not 'underfunded'. It is way, way OVER budget

[@68BigSherm]

Half of us pay zero in income taxes, and many of those even receive money taken from the other half.

[@dystopianstudios8325]

​​@@johnl5316So you are saying the US government should provide no funding to any state project that is not interstate? No intra-state highway projects, water projects, ports, infrastructure? No state farm subsidies, energy projects, disaster relief, etc? Californians would LOVE that. California only gets about 80 cents back for every dollar they get taxed by the federal government. And being over 1/8th of the US economy, that is an enormous amount of money leaving the state. Californians would love to stop subsiding the welfare states all over the South and Midwest of the country, and keep that money for California. So yes, no Californian will argue against that plan. Unfortunately, the welfare states of the South and Midwest will keep voting to suck away hard working Californian's tax dollars to prop up their pathetic economies.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

The title is misleading. Nowhere remotely near $128 billion has been spent (the actual amount is $13.59 billion as of November 2024, out of $22 billion currently available not including future state cap & trade funds), and voters only approved this project in 2008 with full construction starting in 2016.

[@pranshukrishna5105]

the video is misleading itself

[@anthonyhamilton6524]

They started studying this in the 1970s. Complete fraud. People are lining their pockets faster than this is being built.

[@vodoo3dx243]

100+ billion because they are getting from conservative outlets. 😂😂😂

[@triaxe-mmb]

Whats going on is that we hsve never identified the funding and so we keep draggign out construction... Get the money and you can speed it up...

[@johngordon2933]

A complete waste of time and money. The politicians who lowballed the costs and time in order to get this fraud started ought to be in jail.

[@rje4242]

absolutely. completely dishonest.

[@VersusHearts]

A real waste of time and money is constantly widening freeways and ballooning costs of maintaining them due to electric cars and the freeways getting bigger themselves. HSR would help life in California by leaps and bounds. Literally cannot afford to not have it.

[@johnl5316]

@@VersusHearts The central gov should not be finding this intrastate project at all. It is for Ca. Ca should find 100% of it. It is not 'underfunded'. It is way, way OVER budget

[@VersusHearts]

@@johnl5316 We call it the Federal Government here so thanks for outing you aren't in the US. Second, California funds a shit ton of red state highway expansions and other crap, California is simply asking for funding most Californians pay into the federal government. Barely asking for anything. Third, the interstate highway was also decades late and massively overbudget and continues to do so, yet we still funded it because we realized that the US needed the freedom of options. If you want less freedom and less choice just say that. Fourth, the line is intended to connect with other State's HSR lines when they build those up. So its a national need.

[@VersusHearts]

You don't see Californians get up in arms when Trump decided to have a trade war with China and needed to bail out a shit ton of farmers and states. Or when Mississippi needs all of its handouts. Or when something needs to be funded in the midwest. That is how being a union works. We may not be served when tax money goes to a specific state and not our own, but its for wider good and society. We all pay in. We should help states with their projects. This thinking of "Well it doesnt help my state" is narrow thinking when another state asks for funding for other things. We fund things that help only one state all the time. You think California loves paying for hurricane disaster relief when we don't have hurricanes? Of course not but we know NC, Flordia, and other states need that relief and help. Stop being so narrow minded.

[@timgerk3262]

Salute to quality journalism & from a perspective that trains, you know, are a proven working technology. One vital point, seldom made, is that CAHSR is mainly a new right-of-way. Existing rail connections are circuitous and barely even suitable to modern freight operations. Both port cities are better connected toward the East than in the north-south direction. Some political persuasions would say this is intentional, to keep California more bound to the bulk of the US population on the east coast, three timezones away, than to develop more autonomously.

[@teeconsigliano7631]

Voters approved $40 billion for a 3 hour trip, not over a $100 billion for a longer trip. Time to take this back to voters to decide.

[@noctwice]

For all intents and purposes this project is already dead. Not only is it grossly over budget but we also know now they can’t even operate it effectively if they ever do manage to build it. Are passengers going to pay over $400 daily to move between the Bay Area and the LA metro? Pay double to take twice as long as it does by plane? No sense at all. To top it all off they can’t even finish it for $200 billion if they wanted to. This project was never economically viable.

[@CraigMaggio-ls1ys]

I regret voting for this

[@teeconsigliano7631]

@CraigMaggio-ls1ys Me too. We were scammed.

[@m.someone6792]

The actual amount that has been spent is 13.5 billion, not over a 100. They're trying to spark outrage and engagement with their lying title. The current projected cost of completing the project is well over the initial budget due to land costs, but they haven't gone over yet.

[@teeconsigliano7631]

@m.someone6792 LOL amount spent so far is meaningless. CA officials themselves said the project will cost over $100 billion. Voters approved $40 billion. That's a scam!

[@TheRailwayDrone]

It really is a shame because there is so much untapped potential with this railway. Many European and Asian cities have become much more economically competitive with the addition of high speed rail connecting their cities. I wish Americans can realize its benefits. Yes, we know CAHSR has had issues and we know it has been mismanaged. But it has continued nonstop. Imagine if they had all funding in hand.

[@mikelfrance-l6x]

Wait... these cities are already connected by airplanes. So how exactly would they benefit if travel between them is already fast and relatively cheap? America is not Asia and not Europe. There's 3 major mountain ranges between San Francisco and LA and no way around them. There's earthquakes. There's huge communities that are already built in the way with no existing tracks. It always looks so easy until you look at the details.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

@@mikelfrance-l6x both Asia and Europe have mountains, and Japan and Taiwan are two of the most earthquake prone countries in the world, and yet high speed rail exists there and works really well. There are several large cities between SF and LA like San Jose, Fresno, and even Bakersfield, that HSR will connect as well, and the Central Valley is home to seven million people (four million of those living between Merced and Bakersfield where HSR will run). The truth is California has the population and travel numbers to make HSR work here. LA-SF is the busiest flight route in the country, and it’s a six hour drive between LA and SF. The current fastest rail option, Amtrak’s San Joaquins, had over 900,000 riders this year, despite being slower than driving and requiring buses on either end to reach SF and LA.

[@pranshukrishna5105]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc That is an obvious fact, what is so bad about this is that it should have been fully completed by LA olympics, but it seems like it will require another three decades to complete

[@mikelfrance-l6x]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Did they build two 20 KM long tunnels through these earthquake areas? Get back to me on that one.

[@TheRailwayDrone]

@@mikelfrance-l6x Yeah details: America is not Europe and Asia. America considers itself the best in the world at everything primarily because of 20th century relics it built back then (and are now falling apart), yet America lately let's things stand in its way, spreads misinformation, complains about spending for railways but spends over 400 Billion over the course of 50 years to build and maintain the Interstate highway network while only spending a total of approx. TEN BILLION on railways in the past 50 years (with the exception of this bipartisan infrastructure bill congress created and signed into law by Biden), but then complains about the price of building them when we don't fund them and forgets inflation can drive the cost of ANYTHING, as we clearly have seen over the past 7 years. You make it seem as if Asia and Europe are on another planet and are the countries who build high speed railways through mountains and Earthquake zones. Japan has more earthquakes than Cali, has MORE people than Cali and invests more in its people. They have seismographers that help protect trains BEFORE an earthquake hits their railways. Europe is building TWO tunnels through 35 miles of mountain to connect their entire TEN-T rail network, but you seem to think America can't build through 12 to 13 miles of mountain. But let this be an interstate instead, and most of you give "crickets." Ideas like yours are why we are consistently being held back and becoming a much dumber country. Perhaps you don't realize the MAIN benefits of high speed railways is the city-center-top-city-center aspect of it; maybe you've forgotten we're CONSTANTLY being warned that transportation is one of the biggest culprits of climate change (oh wait, many Americans don't believe in that). Or maybe you don't realize how sick and tired people are of dealing with airlines, flight cancellations (of which my current flight is at risk), or simply just want a CHOICE. If YOU want to fly, go ahead and do that. The rest of us would like fast, efficient choices like they have in Europe and Asia. But yes, keep living in the past. California will keep building this regardless of where it terminates.

[@ScottSuhr-l8m]

The real question is, will the Operation of the HS Rail be a giant sink hole for public funds? Aside from route maintenance, is there the slightest expectation that it will be even revenue-neutral just for operating costs? Amtrack has operated at a loss from the start. In FY23, a year of record ridership and revenues, the expenses were ~20% higher than revenues. If the taxes were on the municipalities and corporations which HS Rail is supposed to benefit were paying the tab it might be OK, but the project is coming out of the general fund (as will the cost to operate) -- raising taxes on the other 95% of Californians.

[@AnthonyPinkerton-d7p]

Honestly, I wish all these anti-HSR websites would get their facts straight. The California HSR hasn’t spent nearly $128 billion dollars, yet. I will state that the construction has taken longer than expected; but none of our engineers knew anything about how to built a high speed railroad. So obviously there’s a learning curve? Seriously, the fact that all these anti-HSR sites claim is that California has spent too much money. But, do any of these experts know how much a project like this should cost? If not, they need to do their own research before they make grandiose claims about a project they aren’t even involved in!

[@MattUK36]

Just ask the Spaniards for help, they have one of the best systems on the planet at a reasonable cost

[@galaxylabs1877]

Yeah, I wondered if they have consulted with other countries on their railways

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

@@galaxylabs1877 Deutsche Bahn (Germany’s HSR provider) ECO North America will be the early train operator for the IOS between Merced and Bakersfield.

[@XenTownsend]

@@galaxylabs1877 they brought in french consultants and engineers from TVA. the french found californians to be insufferable (the french!) and went instead to morocco, where there is now a high-speed rail line.

[@stevens1041]

I'm going to be honest with you: its funny how many decades people will wait, hoping for California to magically change. When in reality, you can just learn Spanish and live in Spain right away, which is a very beautiful country with all the trains already built and running.

[@scotttild]

It works in Spain because they don’t have much domestic air travel and its expensive, try getting a domestic flight in Spain for cheap. The EU in general has limited domestic air travel and its expensive. Trails work in the EU because they built the system up and their major cities are closer together which makes train travel reasonable. Try going from Seattle to LA by train, 4 days. It does not work. I so sick of people asking why the U.S does not have a better rail system. For the 200000000 time our major cities are too far apart to make it work and have it be cost effective.

[@hinckleybuzzard12]

Biggest problem is trying to serve too many masters. This project is a misnomer. It is not prioritizing speed, it is being compromised to serve the intervening cities along the way, for political and economic reasons. If California really wanted high speed rail from LA to SF they would have run it down the I-5 corridor.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

Oh good lord. Do you not understand how high speed rail works? Stations have bypass tracks so not every train has to stop at every station. If you looked at the four Central Valley stations, you’d have seen that they too will have bypass tracks. Just like every other high speed rail system in the world, California HSR will offer several different services ranging from express with minimal to no intermediate stops, to limited with some stops, to local stopping at every station, twelve total between SF and Anaheim. The entire system is being designed and built for revenue speeds of up to 220 mph (110 mph on shared tracks in the Bay Area and between LA and Anaheim). As for the choice of route, the San Joaquin Valley that HSR will pass through is home to four million people and counting, and the fifth and ninth largest cities in the state (Fresno and Bakersfield). Bypassing those like I-5 did would mean sacrificing that ridership for minimal time savings, not to mention voters approved the route that’s being built now. It’s also completely moot to try to keep arguing the I-5 route. More than just about speed, this project is about better connecting the state’s interior to the major coastal cities and increasing mobility and accessibility across the state. It’s the backbone of a modern statewide transportation system comprised of local, regional and intercity transit, that’ll reduce dependency on driving as well as flying for distances better covered by HSR.

[@rockwellmath]

That is a very narrow-minded view of the project, assuming that the only objective is to connect Los Angeles and San Francisco. The system will do much, much more than that. And just the Central Valley segment alone will connect up a population that is larger than most states. And these are also some of the fastest-growing communities in the state. A train system that only had express service from LA-SF, and that wouldn't connect up any other communities along the way, would have been a totally asinine decision.

[@davidjackson7281]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Everything you said here is true.

[@Yoboji]

Highly disagree on that. If the train bypassed the Central Valley cities we would be leaving them out of a huge chunk of development and progress. California is not just SF and LA - it's all the towns and cities in between too. Even at a base level - incredibly unfair for all Californians to pay $100 billion in taxes for a train that only serves SF and LA.

[@MySpace662]

California is good at wasting money, that's why this state is in debt.

[@MirzaAhmed89]

1:00 Emeryville is closer to SF than Oakland.

[@Ambergoo532]

11,000 passengers a day fly between SF and LA. How many of those are NOT just layovers? How many are “commuters?” Seems this video opens with a deceptive stat designed to make the listener think there is a real need for a train. But there isn’t. Can we all say “boondoggle?”

[@rogergonzalez7386]

Not one piece of track is laid down. Not one city is connected. Need to cancel this money pit.

[@harryzhu]

Are you expecting this to take a year to be built? you realize it takes years to plan and design before it takes another decade to build right? Safety? Design? Engineering? it's all worth it.

[@tomdemeo2708]

Boondoggle! This ain’t Italy 🇮🇹 and Californians and Americans DRIVE nobody will use it to the extent it pays for itself. This pro train guy saying “ everyone enthusiastic about train is a lie. Will they ride it? NO

[@lucristianx]

I regret voting for it. It’s already going to be one of the slowest.

[@rockwellmath]

The first generation trainsets will reach speeds of 220mph outside of the city centers. That's fairly average for high speed rail around the world.

[@tonysu8860]

The real problem for California HSR isn't touched on in this video It costs about $5N M/mile to build a superhighway and HSR is a lot more than that. To support that kind of cost, you have to project ridership at prices competitive with airlines and cars and that just doesn't pencil out. And that suggestion that the project will become an express line from San Jose to the Central Valley extending bedroom communities won't work. The sweet spot for HSR is supposed to be about 300 miles. Any less and cars are more convenient and cheaper and any longer airlines are a lot faster and no more expensive. Adding stops also slows the train HSR at least in California is a boondoggle traveling from nowhere to nowhere unless connected directly to major city centers and there's no viable plan to connect at either end.

[@TriRabbi]

This is pure folly.

[@davidsz.horvath3357]

Unfortunately, the many car-brained politicians made the project more expensive. As far as I know, the authority has enough reserves to continue construction for the next 4 years. Once the IOS is ready, hopefully the rest will be faster, given that everyone can experience the benefits and effects

[@christiankruse1970]

No. CA incompetence did, along with a completely dysfunctional government. I supported this in 2008 but have been dumbfounded at how horribly its been mismanaged.

[@davidsz.horvath3357]

But what I said is also true. Elon Musk invented the hyperloop crap in 2013 to hinder this project. That in itself has delayed and made the project more expensive. Musk is afraid that HSR will reduce Tesla sales. Then politicians filed several idiotic lawsuits that made the whole thing even more expensive. It is true that California also mishandled the project, but politicians also have a lot of influence.

[@m.someone6792]

The project hasn't even come close to going over budget yet, the title represents a sort of worst case scenario projection of the potential eventual costs since prices keep going up as the project gets delayed. They've spent something like 13.5 not well over a hundred billion. The video is incredibly biased and even the title is straight up lying to viewers.

[@kenxiong6830]

Democrats overseeing the project is the problem

[@AL5520]

Of course. We've seen how republicans filled tje country with cheap and efficient high speed lines 😂 There are many reasons why such projects are so expensive and take too long in the US but one of the main reasons is lack of funding. When a projects like this cannot secure the budget needed and lives day by day costs tend to rise and it takes longer to construct. Now, remind me which side always objects to provide any kind of funding for passenger rail?

[@kenxiong6830]

@ CA doesn’t need a high speed rail. I doubt funding was the issue. CA already secured the funding prior to construction. They just wasted it all. Check the receipts buddy

[@rockwellmath]

@@kenxiong6830 check your facts, buddy. California only secured seed money for the project with Prop 1A. Rail systems should be built by government at the national level. And everywhere else in the world, they are.

[@kenxiong6830]

@ the country already has a rail system that nobody uses. This is why only California is dumb enough to try and build one. Americans prefer to drive or fly. Nobody likes trains

[@MikeEmProductions]

I never understood why the CAHSR can't run in the median of CA 99.

[@charlescole-p9v]

Incompetence at a unimaginable level. Would have taken a few months if it had been done by the Europeans, Chinese or Japanese. And for 1/1000 of the price

[@prescient8972]

This is a wakeup call. While China built 20k miles of HSR from 2007, planning to extend it to up to 45k miles for 2035 and upgrades train models from 300 to 400km/h, we are struggling to build 300miles of HSR in 20 years. The entire system of government and project management has to be rebuilt bottom up in this country. Otherwise, defeat is inevitable in one form or another.

[@rprimbs]

Am I doing the math right? This is going to cost 355 million dollars per mile?

[@victoroneschuck4139]

We need more efficient mass transit. It is obvious we can't keep building roads. We can't maintain the roads we already have. Drive over any pot holes lately?

[@joalberi4658]

This HSRS project needs to be complete, at least in the sections Bakersfield-Fresno - San Jose-San Francisco fist ASAP and then the Los Angeles area. It's inexplicable that the federal government could be not fully supportive or against the progress of Americans in need of an effective transportation system that's been proven useful around the world. * 2025 US Government... Please, stop the politics and get this done.

[@craigxfleming8806]

U have both union station LA the transbay terminal in SF you need to include San Diego too

[@poodlescone9700]

The insistance for HSR to run to SF was a huge mistake. It should have started in San Jose with a connection to Caltrain. The existing rail to Gilroy is not used except for weekday rush hour so HSR is perfect to take up the capacity. Then new track should have been built from Gilroy south to Los Angeles and San Diego.

[@harleyb.birdwhisperer]

My thought was connect to BART in Pleasanton, then go to Sacramento, but bottom line for both of us is use the existing stuff.😊 Electrifying CalTrain is, so far, the best thing to come of this boondoggle by a long shot.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

@@harleyb.birdwhisperer no need to mention that California within the next decade will be the only place in the Western Hemisphere with high speed trains reaching speeds of over 200 mph. The initial segment between Merced and Bakersfield will connect with other intercity rail and bus transit, and is all CHSRA has enough funding available for. The sooner the extensions to SF and LA are funded, the sooner they’ll happen and less they’ll cost.

[@pranshukrishna5105]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc speed will be like 116mph. Even Brightline west only has average speed of 116mph

[@DexterBachman]

The initial construction segment had to start in the Central Valley because when $2.5 billion ARRA funding was granted in 2009 it was the only segment that was environmentally cleared. Environmental clearance for the entire route from San Francisco to Los Angeles was only completed in 2023 at a cost of over $1 billion

[@harleyb.birdwhisperer]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Chris, you left out the word ‘empty’. How many passengers make the commute from Merced to Bakersfield daily?

[@rxvaque]

Mexico built a 1500 km train service in 4 years with the help of the military.

[@johnl5316]

and what is your point?

[@w2385-i2s]

You don't need that. Just telecommute.

[@Waponzi]

This will be one of the biggest project America / California will have doneee

[@Guzzy_XR]

I’m currently 25 yrs old this thing won’t be done until at least 2050, imma be 51 years old by then…

[@car24dude]

It will be over 100 years to finish this project.

[@JSondersETVHunter]

Follow the money trail, that should tell you all you need to know. Probably got a few new millionaires too.

[@dutchmerchant4763]

Over priced, over budget, over promised, behind schedule and will perform significantly below expectations and promises made by fork tongued politicians.

[@DuluaFR]

“Greatest country in the world” Just build the line. All the excuses i heard boil down to money. You have it US. Use it lol this is just sad to watch.

[@shreychaudhary4477]

but then we need voters to agree to pay more taxes for this past prop 1A bonds. But most californians probably haven't ridden a long-distance train, like, ever, so it's kinda a hard sell

[@tylerriddle7735]

This mindset of “just throw money” at it is what California does but it has unintended consequences because of the bureaucracy in California, things just don’t get done because of regulation, because of greed, and because reward is not completion but to milk through system as long as possible (see the homeless industrial complex we have). This has been a huge problem government in California for a while. The prop was passed in 2008 and yet nothing has been completed. People are tired of that, especially for something that does not match the Car culture. They should have completed the hardest segment first and the government should have gotten out of the way. Central Valley to LA would have been killer and useful.

[@rockwellmath]

​@@tylerriddle7735 when people say "they're just throwing money at the problem," I don't think they even know what that means, with any kind of specificity. If you had watched the video, you'd have a sense of why it is taking so long, and why it has been so expensive, and without resorting to clichés about fat cat bureaucrats and union bosses. And if you had been watching the progress of all the Central Valley construction, you'd know that there has been a huge amount of progress, they are going to start laying track next year. There's always the Monday morning quarterbacking about how it should have been done. But at the end of the day, it's getting done - and only California could do this. But the federal government needs to step up. Central Valley to LA *will* be killer and useful. But because of the terrain, that will be the last, and most expensive segment to build. San Franciscans will be able to take high speed rail all the way to Las Vegas before Los Angelenos will be able to take it to Palmdale. But when it's done, nobody is going to be doubting the decision to build it, or to use the Central Valley segment as proof of concept.

[@anthonybardarama]

Just build the damn thing! Too many rules & regulations, too many nimby's, too many greedy people involved. Just complete it already!

[@bororobo3805]

California. The world's capital of bureaucracy

[@mkho0505]

why wouldn't high speed trains just replace the 'commuter trains' between SF and san jose?

[@agntdrake]

Because the Silicon Valley is a thing and is the economic engine for the area (and the entire state). It's where Google, Meta, Nvidia, Apple, Tesla, AMD, Intel, and every other high tech company that you can think of has offices. The "commuter trains" service all of the small cities along the route.

[@harleyb.birdwhisperer]

Rail gauges are different.

[@agntdrake]

@@harleyb.birdwhisperer both use standard gauge.

[@timgerk3262]

​@agntdrake to clarify, BART is a fully grade-separated wide gauge regional rail service. It currently serves the San Francisco and Oakland cores, and is expanding to downtown San Jose. Caltrain is a standard gauge rail, newly electrified, but with numerous grade crossings which limit speed. Part of the right-of-way is publicly owned, with the UP freight rail maintaining track rights. A private freight railroad outright owns track south of San Jose. Caltrain's stations are mixed legacy low-level & ground level platforms.

[@agntdrake]

@@timgerk3262 there hasn't ever been a plan to run HSR on the BART tracks (nor would I expect there ever to be). They aren't related projects. The planned route was always going to use the Caltrain ROW which is standard gauge. The corridor is (slowly) trying to get rid of the at grade crossings and there are funds ear marked for their removal in Santa Clara county, although I'm not sure what's going to happen with changes with the federal government (who last time tried killing Caltrain electrification). Regardless, in Palo Alto at least, it means there will be shoofly tracks down Alma Ave for several years while they get built. My understanding was the section between San Jose Diridon and Gilroy was going to have a separate set of tracks from the freight tracks, which (of course) would also be standard gauge.

[@johnl5316]

I liver for 50 year in Ca and recently left S Ca. I knew no one who was excited about 'electric trains'.

[@trainerjoe9469]

This is a boondoggle only because central valley politicians screwed over the rest of the state. The original plan would have saved billions of dollars and at least a decade of wasted time, because it was only going to directly connect LA and SF. There would still need to be tunnels, but all the time and money wasted on the environmental reports, land acquisitions, and the resulting lawsuits from land acquisitions that have stalled this for years would have been avoided. The original plan was to simply go up the middle of Interstate 5, where the state already owns and controls the land. No eminent domain, no lawsuits, no environmental studies need to be done, just build. But no, Fresno and it's paltry 500k population has to screw over SoCal and its 22 million residents and the Bay area with its 9 million residents for 30 years because they have to have the train going through their city as well. There should have been 2 lines, one direct from LA to SF, with a stop in the middle (like Kettleman City or Los Banos), and then a spur going into the central valley that links up with it there. This way you eventually have a main line that connects San Diego, Anaheim, LA, San Jose, and SF, and another that connects Bakersfield, Fresno, Merced, Modesto, Stockton, and Sacramento, with a spot that connects them both. That would have made much more sense.

[@entropyachieved750]

They could have done it by now but Elon was too busy with his BS Hyperloop and all his other BS projects

[@aaronguzman7940]

What's does elon have to do with this?

[@entropyachieved750]

@aaronguzman7940 well he was the one campaigning against it saying the 'Hyperloop' was the answer... Didn't that turn out to be all B.S. like all his other wild claims

[@Uvoted4this]

​@@entropyachieved750 well they can make the inside Lane of I-5 for self-driving electric cars traveling at 250 mph. Currently The cost of a single ticket for each person in California one way would be $2,672 to pay for the scam

[@Uvoted4this]

Musk could get you to New York in 10 minutes on one of his Rockets

[@entropyachieved750]

@Uvoted4this 😂😂😂 just imagine the noise of these things taking off and landing everywhere day and night... Some simps believe anything 😂

[@nakfx134]

theres tons of naysayers but once its built people will want more and more.

[@mikelfrance-l6x]

Let me ask you something. Let's say someone gave you $300 Billion and you could spend it on anything. Would you invest in green energy? Fix the homeless problem? Invest in drug rehabilitation? Build desaltation plants? Bury electric cables so forests don't burn every time the wind blows? Fix the healthcare system? Or build a railway that is slower than flying at about the same cost and will take 30 years before one person can ride on it? CA has a lot of problems. Travel times between San Francisco and LA is not one of them.

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

@@mikelfrance-l6x good thing HSR will only cost about a third of that, and half the cost to keep expanding freeways and airports to meet the same additional capacity that HSR will provide. LA-SF is the busiest flight in the US and total downtown-downtown travel time takes an average 3-4 hours, and the drive is roughly six hours. HSR will take less than three hours, not to mention better connect the cities in-between like Bakersfield, Fresno, and San Jose, increasing mobility and accessibility between them and to SF and LA/SoCal, in addition to other intercity/regional transit throughout the state.

[@pranshukrishna5105]

@@ChrisJones-gx7fc o but like Why can't California solve the abovementioned problems with one-tenth of its gdp. California has so much gdp and so many resources, yet it has more problems then it should have

[@davidsz.horvath3357]

@@mikelfrance-l6x I also ask something. How can the flight be faster? It may only be 1 hour, but the time spent at the airport for taxiing, taxiing, and baggage claim at landing is at least 3 hours, compared to the 2.5 hours promised by cahsr. the train is more comfortable, smoother, and less likely to be late than a plane.

[@mikelfrance-l6x]

@@davidsz.horvath3357 So, you think there should be no security checks getting on trains? Which century do you live in? Why would getting on a train be any different than an airport? You teleport there?

[@josephpadula2283]

Yes 3x over budget . Those mountains that popped up after the estimates of cost were made ! Who knew ? Do let’s punish the bad management And planning by giving them more money ?!!!

[@m.someone6792]

It's not actually over budget yet, it is projected to be highly over budget by the time it's completed though mostly due to land acquisitions and lawsuits over them and in turn the prices for everything going up during the delays those have been causing.

[@key2highway]

This project is pure grift and needs to be stopped

[@Matty002]

remember if conservatives are against it, its progress

[@pattycarljackson]

There is no excuse why the US doesn’t have better publican transportation and the only reason is politicians want to spend it on roads for stupid reason, lobbiests and average people don’t know good public transit or how amazing a more walkable city or town can be especially when you have corner stores or shops in your own neighborhood you can walk to and that’s all because they wanted to push cars on us which have failed us since deaths because of cars is higher then any other developed country and the bigger cars get the worse since more kids have died by the hands of their own parents in their own driveway because the vehicle is so large for no reason.

[@hiroshi138]

Imagine spending all this money for the final outcome to be crazy people screaming and pissing themselves right next to you 👍

[@villegas-su6fg]

No 1 drives from Fresno to the bay. Fresno, Fresno, what's wrong with this guy, Fresno is a shit hole, no 1 would care if the train went right by Fresno without stopping. The only things built so far are in Fresno! A rail line from Manteca area to the bay would actually be useful. Yes I live here. No one is asking to get from SF to LA, everyone lives just outside these areas, Modesto, Manteca, Lathrop etc. all going to the bay area, same with the communities surrounding LA. And No BART isn't it lol

[@shaggydogsales]

China has built over 29,000 miles (46,000km) of High-Speed rail just within the last 10 to 20 years. This short section of California high-speed rail has been a complete waste of money. There needs to be an investigation of the $128b spending.

[@passatboi]

Cringe at Los AngelEEZE. Ugh.

[@ES-hr6vg]

Every Brit does this. It’s obnoxious.

[@ES-hr6vg]

Why the hell can’t British people pronounce Los Angeles properly? There’s no Z in Los Angeles. They get pissed when we mispronounce the Thames but they all get a free pass on this? It’s Los An-juh-less, not Los An-juh-leez.

[@edisonacuna]

certainly you can't compare with China but compare with Spain instead with a huge high speed rail network. on the utilities side everyone have the same problem.

[@Ambergoo532]

Why would anyone want a one way commute of 3+ hours? Then how long does it take to get from a “city center” to a work destination? In both the LA and SF areas another hour?? Yea, sorry, but “commuter” is not the right word. And without “commuters” there’s no need. No need means no passengers. So this boondoggle hasn’t been and never will be useful, let alone profitable….or even self sustaining.

[@MisterSherlock]

Well if the population centers (SF and LA) had their links running, they would have an immediate and steady flow of revenue to build out the rest of the links, but in the name of equity, we had to build it out in the middle of nowhere.

[@m.someone6792]

It was the only segment with all of the studies completed in time for federal grant money from the Obama administration, so that's where they started.

[@bobbyjenkins7946]

This whole, the california high speed rail thing is nothing but a punzy scheme

[@osmanhossain676]

Los Angeles to Anaheim and San Diego😮

[@JohnGratian]

cost estimates keep escalating with little to show for the costs. and it needs to be a high speed and not closer to faster freeway speeds.

[@johnl5316]

The central gov should not be finding this intrastate project at all. It is for Ca. Ca should find 100% of it. It is not 'underfunded'. It is way, way OVER budget

[@mityace]

$128 billion is UNDERFUNDED????

[@lumo5691]

Blaming Trump 😅. How original !

[@OleSkullestad]

This presentation is bunk. Large technology companies in Silicon Valley and Los Angeles are looking to leave the state entirely. Most of these big state projects have been conceived to raise bond money which eventually finds its way to the Calpers retirement system retirement fund. If the people of California want prosperity- start with a complete overhaul of the grossly corrupt functionaries in Sacremento. Once this is accomplished a new high speed rail system might be viable.

[@VermaRajinder]

Trains are the future !!!

[@salvadormora3329]

Why couldn’t they build over/under the 101 or the 5 fwys, oh because that would make more sense and cost less.

[@Gartauk1]

The only ones who want this project are employed by this project. A joke of a boondoggle amd waste of billions upon billions upon billions

[@jasonalperin9414]

Thought is little more than 400 miles to LA from San Francisco!

[@Jim-nt7xy]

I am SO shocked that this happened!

[@IngVasiu]

Similar route to Milan - Rome. Around 600km, done in 3 hours by express train.

[@mike95826]

If the object is to connect the main population centers of SF and LA with "high speed" rail then you connect them, forget this "intermediate" B.S., The lower population centers like Sacramento and Fresno can be handled with "branch" lines that can be built later. A Fresno connection might meet the main line in some place like San Luis Obispo. The highway 101 corridor would have been the most logical and smartest choice, it is also the shortest.

[@stephengrogan4177]

They should have just planned the main stem of the route straddling I5.

[@unholyrevenger72]

If the had done that, there would be no HSR, because CAHSR needed the political support of the central valley residents.

[@Prodecider]

the reason they didn't do this was discussed in the video at 5:23

[@rockwellmath]

Planning the route through the part of the Central Valley where NOBODY LIVES would have been the stupidest decision imaginable.

[@user-tx9zg5mz5p]

Massive massive failure😂

[@GigaChad_169]

Glad I'm not paying for it...Florida figured out how to build high speed rail without all the BS. Might want to ask them for advice.

[@osmanhossain676]

I always want California High-Speed Rail in California and I always love California High-Speed Rail in California.😮

[@osmanhossain676]

No hyperloop 😢

[@kennethng8346]

You criticize the four year cycle of the federal government, and then you insist that the feds should pay for it. Keep it in state where everyone has skin in the game. Its hard for people in New York and Florida to be interested. Should be much easier for people in California to promote.

[@luisramirez-cortez6925]

Watching this I can’t help but to think of Mexico’s new train system in five states in the south; the so called Mayan Train, the renovation of the Itsmo’s train (that connects the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific, and the completion of the Insurgent Train (public transportation system that connects Mexico City with neighboring cities and states. All of these in only the 6 years that AMLO was in office. In addition, in 2025 the train system that will connect the new AIFA airport with Mexico City and other neighboring cities will be completed. All of these without any debt and wile also two new airports (AIFA and TULUM), and a new Oil Refinery ( Dos Bocas in the state of Tabasco) were built. I guess when there is a will, there is a way.

[@davidjackson7281]

Its average speed is an ordinary 50 mph.

[@Sam-gs7yb]

@@davidjackson7281its average speed for tren maya will be 100mph. But its new rail and almost 1000miles in 4years

[@davidjackson7281]

@@Sam-gs7yb The entire 1000 mile route when finished will be great. Though the top speed may reach 100 mph in some long sections the average speed most likely will be no more than 60-65 mph. The entire journey in a sleeper will probably be 18 hours.

[@BakoSooner]

LA and SF is too big aerially to accommodate a central train station. If a person has to spend 30 min to drive to a train station, the deal is dead on arrival. Just look at the ridership of Amtrak because majority of passengers actually riding high speed will be these folks. Cities in Asia are very high in population density and they have existing and very convenient transit systems (buses and underground). Although anticipation might be high, majority of these people will stay in their cars.

[@rockwellmath]

But people already have to spend 30 minutes (and sometimes a lot more) to drive to airports, get parked, and ride the shuttle to the gate. And then they have to stand in lines to check in, get through security, wait for their boarding call, get boarded. And then at the end of the flight they have to wait to de-board, get their luggage, find a shuttle to the rental car, stand in line, and drive another half-hour into the city center where they want to go. The flight might be quick, but the entire process around it is inefficient, inconvenient, expensive, time consuming, and wasteful. I'm about a half-hour from the San Jose rail station. And using CAHSR, I would already be at my destination in Los Angeles before I would even be in the air, if I were to fly out of SFO.

[@stickynorth]

Brightline West shows you what California HSR should have done to speed up the process and keep costs down. Keep the trains OUT of the secondary cities and re-use FREE existing Interstate Rights of Way to get reasonably fast high speed train service built for a fraction of the cost of building a new greenfield route through thousands of properties.. Would have it been a bit slower? Sure! But service would have been up and running by now and not sometime after 2032 or so...

[@danielcarroll3358]

Calling Fresno a secondary city is odd. It is larger than the largest city in most of our states. Interstate 5 follows the western side of the central valley, winding around the protruding foothills of the coastal mountains. This means that high speed rail can't follow the route of the freeway as it will travel at three times the speed.

[@TheRailwayDrone]

Brightline is running a SINGLE-TRACK high speed railway in the median of an interstate. The comparisons are not even CLOSE to what CAHSR has to deal with.

[@mrxman581]

What BLW is doing is fine for conventional passenger rail service. Just don't call it HSR because it's not. What BLW is doing is a terrible way to build true HSR of the future. They are building it on the cheap, value engineering the project to death resulting in a train ONLY capable of an average speed of 101 mph. For a train capable of 200 mph, that's pathetic. By comparison what CAHSR is doing is harder, more expensive, and takes longer, but it's the correct way to build HSR. Taking shortcuts in HSR construction is not smart, and will only cost more in the long run in inefficient passenger service that will need to be upgraded to stay useful. CAHSR will be the preeminent HSR line in the Western Hemisphere traveling at 220 mph.

[@artlewellan2294]

I agree with your assessment of HSR; slower is faster in terms of getting HSR built. The segment Bakersfield to LA could perhaps junction with the Brightline route? The segment from Merced to Sacramento could spur along the Altamont route to Fremont and across the Bay on a refurbished rail trestle. The joy in train travel is the passing scenery which is lost in a blur at bullet train speeds. Silicon Valley robot people compute in terms of themselves alone.

[@AL5520]

To add to the reat (not that fast, single track) It does not directly connects the two cities it's supposed to serve. The line starts in Rancho Cucamonga, which takes 1h10 to get to from Union Station, and ends much closer but out of Las Vegas, a bit further away from the airpot! This makes tje promissed 2h10 journey to close to 4h which makes flying better. One of the advantages of trains is taking you from city center to city center.

[@scotttild]

High speed rail does not work in the U.S for the simple fact that is is just not cost effective and our cities are too far apart so stop comparing the U.S to the EU.

[@danieloehler2494]

Remember the construction of Central Pacific? California is unable to build railroads without Chinese help.

[@carlosmante]

Pronunciation is "Los Angeles' NOT "Los Anyyieles"...........Remember "Los Angeles" is a Mexican name Not a Gringo one.

[@MattUK36]

Spanish name*

[@MirzaAhmed89]

Um, the Spanish pronunciation is "Ang-hell-es".

[@osmanhossain676]

Sacramento

[@craigxfleming8806]

With trump and musk their will be no federal support for high-speed rail

[@preludepower420]

Biggest boondoggle in history.

[@brucehain]

The design of the route was deliberately wrong. The 114-mile segment expected to open in 2030 will be 9 miles longer than the parallel line built in the 1870s, as measured from the same termini located along the old line in Fresno and Bakersfield. The old line has a fifty-mile-long tangent perfect for high speed rail, unlike the serpentine and inefficient-to-operate new one. The cost of upgrading the old line for mixed use would have been a fraction of what it cost to build the new one, particularly with omission of the customary "padding" that affects almost every US passenger rail project whether though intentionally disputative property disputes, preposterous infrastructure (as in the present case) or more conventional construction ploys. They finally settled on having the Fresno station at the old location, though they will be doing considerable work in order to demean and deprecate the original station building: the necessary grade separation could easily have been carried out as an enhancement of the old station rather than a curse. On some level there are people responsible for these deliberate actions who should be sitting in jail. It is a conspiracy - part of the Freight Carrier Railroad Engineering FRA Revolving Door Cabal.

[@shahar7]

Stopping in Fresno is the dumbest most woke decision that will kill this project

[@maje9448]

navigate

[@troythomason8032]

Colossal waste of taxpayer money.

[@osmanhossain676]

Yes 100% California High-Speed Rail in California.😮

[@craigxfleming8806]

They waited to long to build it and have car centric infrastructure.

[@galaxylabs1877]

I would think it would be good to go through a few less developed areas. They could make an argument that a new city could be created like in Trump’s idea for creation of new cities, then maybe they’d receive more federal funding.