Interview with Arnulf Hartl on the F-104 Starfighter

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Arnulf Hartl is a former German Air Force F-104 and F-4F Pilot. The main focus of the interview is his time on the F-104, which includes training, front line squadrons, stories and being an instructor.
Image Credit: Günter Grondstein

[@gragrn]

Great to hear a German pilot that loves the F-104.

[@johndonaldson3619]

Plenty who knew better didn't - PLENTY!

[@johndonaldson3619]

@galaxiesaver Oberstleutnant Oberstleutnant (lieutenant colonel) Eric Hartmann of JG71 didn't - He described the 104 as " fundamentally flawed and unsafe aircraft and strongly opposed its adoption by the air force. and with 269 crashes and 116 German pilots killed on the F-104 in non-combat missions as a result - but hey what would Germany's greatest pilot know eh?

[@jonoedwards4195]

Der Rare one that survived Niggas!

[@31terikennedy]

@@johndonaldson3619 Yep and Gunther Rall loved it, Eh?

[@billgund4532]

Great interview. My dad was a 104 IP at Luke from 1964-1970. Dad absolutely loved that plane. When he flies his "final mission," I'm hoping the Luke CO will let me inter dad's ashes in the F104 & F86 static displays on base. Note: The US didn't lose the Korean war. It was a stalemate. The SA-2 didn't show up until the late 50's-Francis Gary Powers found out the hard way.

[@alseveron6558]

Fascinating interview. I was totally blown away by the F104's looks, when I first saw one. It seemed like the futuristic pinnacle of the aero-space age at the time. I always thought it looked ahead of its time, and that was born out by the way it stayed in service for so long.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thank you.

[@bret9741]

Thank you again, both to the interviewer and interviewee. I use to fly into Pensacola FL. Often we would see German F-4’s in absolute pristine condition. I was flying for Delta Connection at the time CRJ-50’s and we were told it was Germans training with the Navy?? One of my check airman (instructor) Pilots was a German F-4 Pilot. I’d have to grab my log book for spelling. But I believe it was spelled Hans Ruhl. Nice man, and good to fly with. Also flew with a mix of European pilots especially when I was a flight instructor. It’s interesting. Every pilot I know who flew the f-104 and many other aircraft said the F-104 was their favorite. There is a great documentary on KZbin of the Italian f-104’s. The Italians were/are fanatical fans of the platform.

[@TheDarwiniser]

What a top bloke. One of the best interviews.

[@Aircrewinterview]

John Smith cheers John

[@MrLuvOldies]

Thanks. Great interview. I appreciated Arnulf Hartl's Love of the F-104 Starfighter Airplane.

[@Aircrewinterview]

jay capp glad you enjoyed it. He certainly speaks with passion about the jet.

[@pasxen1744]

When he talks about his first flight and his Instructor, on the verge of tears was tough to watch... Great interview.

[@Aircrewinterview]

+Pas Xen Thanks :)

[@hfisch65]

Klasse Video!

[@beertruk2429]

Great interview. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I am ex ARA (Australian Regular Army) and my last posting was to the Aviation Support Group Workshop Oakey, which looked after the Porters, Nomads, Kiowas, Iroquois and Blackhawks.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thanks very much.

[@AvengerII]

Excellent interview! It paints a much better picture of the F-104, IMHO, which I did NOT expect. So, as much as people like to blame the equipment, it was really a matter of training and being more genteel with the hardware. (A lesson the USAF and USN had to learn with their Phantoms and other planes in Vietnam!) It's kind of a shame something like the Eurofighter Typhoon wasn't around when this gentleman was flying. I can understand his eagerness to fly the F-15! Even in the US, it was understood (after too many experiences demonstrating its limitations in Vietnam) that the F-4 wasn't the greatest dogfighter at the height of its US career. There were pilots who preferred the Northrop F-5 or the F-8 when those were available. It's not the F-4 wasn't a good fighter for its time it just wasn't a DOGFIGHTER. With a minor exception or two (and definitely NONE of the routine Mach 2+ designs), none of those supersonic capable planes that entered service in the 1950s would be considered great dogfighters today. The closest to a great dogfighter (among US supersonic-capable designs) was the F-5. The best dogfighters were still the subsonic types like the F-86, MiG-15, and MiG-17. They just weren't emphasizing the handling and overall maneuverability of aircraft among the late second-generation/third-generation planes like the F-4. I've noticed a lot of career pilots have felt that way about the "plane that got away from them" or they just didn't have the chance to sample. The B-52 story was neat! 4900 hours with J79 aircraft and hardly an incident with that engine. Wow... Sounds like a well-engineered piece of hardware.

[@michaelgrey7854]

The years soften the memory.

[@jayusn-et2231]

A true driver giving his insights on the birds he flew and loved.

[@Aircrewinterview]

He is a top man.

[@mmmriggs]

Great interview, good stories, top bloke, amazing moustache!

[@Aircrewinterview]

+Che Mikey glad you enjoyed it!

[@dalesfailssagaofasuslord783]

Che Mikey mustache made the interview

[@mickmckean7378]

Great interview Arnulf, love that photo right at the end in his flying days with the big bushy moustache.

[@AaronStuartHall]

What a lovely guy. Great interview.

[@dalesfailssagaofasuslord783]

104 is easily my favorite Cold War fighter/interceptor. Flawed but such raw power.

[@timrogers2045]

Brilliant interview, as always. Thank you very much.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thanks Timothy.

[@EdD-ym6le]

These are GREAT . A B - 52 @ 500 feet / 500 ktn's - didn't know they were capable of that and can't imagine what that would sound like going over head .

[@royhauer311]

I had the priveledge to dismantle a Norwegian F-104k, load it on a NAF C-130 and have it delivered to Montgomery, Al. Reassembled the starfighter, along with the expertise of a former Lockheed Engineer that was hired by the company that owned this 104. I did get a ride in the backset and it was aweome. Made numerous flights to Jordan to pickup and dismantle and ship to Alabama 8 more 104's that were purchased from the Jordanian AF. The intent of this company was to contract out to the US Military the aircraft for various test programs. It folded but the flying 104 and remaining aircraft were eventually sold to Cliff Robertson / Star Fighters. Our one and only pilot was formerly a UH-1 Cobra helicopter pilot. What a jump in performance from a helicopter to a Starfighter.

[@boggy8557]

Super tol! Great interview. I got total moustache envy after seeing the last pic!

[@jaimemedina6430]

What a nice guy👌🏻👌🏻 I’d love to have a beer with guys like this and chat about planes🤗💪💪

[@frankcrawford416]

What a great story and great pilot.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Glad you enjoyed the interview, Frank.

[@MemphisBelle291]

great channel, liked and subscribed, thanks for taking the effort to make those interviews

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thank you, it’s much appreciated.

[@Allinho2008]

Really good interview. Great production. I like the photos you put up at the end

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thanks very much :)

[@davidcachia1854]

Great interview as always!

[@Aircrewinterview]

David Cachia thanks David :)

[@simonrichardson5077]

Always superb work lad,thank you

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers Simon.

[@DumbledoreMcCracken]

Danke Herr Hartl.

Very intersting interview. Also good to get his perspective on the starfighter crisis. Jever is actually quite near to my hometown of Emden. Wehen I was a kid in the ealry 1990 the thunder of jets could still be heared quite often in the skies, but it got more infrequent over the years.

[@fossmarkluni]

Excellent interview! Thanks for doing these!

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thanks :)

[@quik478]

Thanks to you!

[@tomstreet4594]

fossmarkluni

[@bjonktfoisper]

Excellent interview.

[@j.b.1843]

I was stationed at Luke the same time he was as an F-4 Maintainer

[@acballen2613]

These interviews are enthralling.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thanks.

[@FujisamaProductions]

I'm stationed at Kapaun air station in kaiserslautern! Awesome stories !

[@j.wagner8639]

More german crews! Fantastic interview. Thank you so much

[@Aircrewinterview]

Thanks very much!

[@markiesmith4537]

Great Interview!

[@ArizonaCowboys]

excellent interview. thank you

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers

[@robertmackay4613]

SA-2 was never deployed during the Korean War (1950-53). The SA-2 entered service with the USSR in 1957. And the F-104 was developed to counter the Mig-15. To my knowledge; the CIA was not fully aware that the SA-2 existed until 1960 following the Gary Powers incident. But the USAF never considered the SA-2 a threat to their fighters until Vietnam started getting hot. The USAF finally responded with the Wild Wessel pilots for the sole purpose of mitigating the threat in 1965. By then the F-104 was in service for 7 years

[@AvengerII]

Iraq was using upgraded SA-2's in the first Persian Gulf War. They shot down a few planes with this SAM including a brand-new F-14B. That particular plane was lost because the electronic warning gear was not working well. The US Navy in its infinite wisdom let the electronics on the F-14 fall WAY behind. They transferred funds for upgrades and fixes to other aviation programs REPEATEDLY which is why the upgraded planes didn't enter service until 1989 and even those planes basically only had the F110 upgrade. The real optimal fix for the F-14 was the D-model (which had the desperately-needed avionics fixes in addition to the higher-thrust, far more reliable engine) and those didn't deploy until 1992 just when the F-14 production was shut down for good. (They did upgrade a few more A-models a bit later to F-14B-standard; I imagine they either had left over paid-for engines or did the modest upgrades for attrition's sake.) The A and B models had electronic warning gear dating back to the Vietnam War that didn't work well even back in the 1960s that migrated to the Tomcat! (Yes, there is half-assery and contractor decisions and mandates that don't make sense in EVERYBODY'S military services! The TF30 engine itself was mandated by contract and they knew the engine had problems before the Tomcat's first carrier deployment.) A lot of the issues with the Tomcat's electronics (in all models) were not addressed until the mid-1990s, well after the end of the first Gulf War. The plane was perfectly capable of out-maneuvering the SA-2 missile. They just didn't get the warning in time! That was the only F-14 loss of the conflict.

[@niklas2378]

a german f104 starfighter crashed near narvik (in northern norway) in 1965 i believe. the reason is unknown (some think it was suicide, the pilots father died in the battle of narvik during 1940) but its beleived that the pilot passed out during a local flight over germany due to fault in the oxygen system and the plane continued its flight on its own northward to narvik where it ran out of fuel. norwegian fighters followed the plane, but could not establish contact with the starfighter. the norwegian fighters didnt fire their weapons because it was deemed unlikely the german plane would hit populated areas and because of the international issues that would occur if they did. the starfighter crashed in a bog, burrowing itself down to bedrock and exploded 4 kilometers from narvik

[@navalhistoryhub3748]

Awesome man. Great stories to tell. Good work all round Buddy. My fave so far bar Chris Bolton on the phantom.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers Ben. Arnulf is a top bloke and from what I have heard a very good fighter pilot.

[@Yosemite-George-61]

Please, more stories about Luflwaffe F-104s !

[@Doones51]

Another great interview. When i was young i used to live near McConnell AFB in Wichita, KS. I drove my friend to the base for work and got to see F-104's landing. I was amazed that they landed in a very nose high attitude, looking like they were about to fall out of the sky in a stall. I haven't seen any land like that in videos i have seen. Does anyone know anything about that? Maybe i just saw some hot shots pushing the edge of the envelope that one day.

[@unclecolt]

Damned good interview, damned good.

[@randyhavard6084]

Possibly the best mustache ever

[@thefrecklepuny]

Once more, a very interesting interview. Well done! It answered a question for me though, namely whether a fighter could or would ever be used to transport an organ for a medical emergency as it is much, much faster than a helicopter. Now I know.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Now you have your answer :) Cheers

[@jaimemedina6430]

The howl of the j-79👌🏻🥰👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

[@freebird1118]

Another excellent video. This plane had a bad reputation, but this gentleman's enthusiasm for the 104 demonstrates a much more positive experience. He obviously did his homework, and knew the plane well. If I had to fly one I would definitely want him to be my instructor. Quick note, as some may know, even my favorite aviator Chuck Yeager lost one of these planes (Of course under extreme conditions).

[@inekeattema8462]

freebird520 I

[@jayusn-et2231]

It only has a bad reputation by those idiots with no real aircraft knowledge. People who get their information from Wikipedia and non-aviation sources. Anyone who was a competent F-104 driver thought it was the greatest bird they ever flew!!!

[@manfredmaicon9793]

Great interview. They should show it to people that continue insulting F-104 on youtube.

[@Aircrewinterview]

Hopefully it will silence a few!

[@topbanana8438]

it was a bad plane go read the history on it. Germans called it the widow maker

[@Inkompetent]

It was a good plane. A very good plane, in fact. However Germany lacked pilots experienced with jets, especially that modern jets, they had a insufficient training program both for pilots and just as importantly for mechanics. The "widow maker" status for the plane was basically because the Germans didn't know how to fly it. Once they got used to the plane and had better pilot and mechanics training the accident ratio for the plane dropped A LOT.

[@jayusn-et2231]

Rotten Banana: You are Moron who knows zero - absolutely squat about aircraft have the IQ of a banana and didn't even watch the video.

[@MichaelOZimmermannJCDECS]

Another excellent interview. Your voice is always a bit hard to understand, low volume, compared to the interviewee! Thanks!

[@BruceMcC23]

Listen to the album, Captain Lockheed and the Star Fighters! It's on utube

[@richardschneider9946]

Worked on F-104 for over 25 years love this Aircraft

[@richardschneider9946]

Training the German Air force at Luke AFB AZ. F-104G

[@UsoundsGermany]

@@richardschneider9946 Luftwaffe early 90ties here,Radar/AA/communications

[@darrenpaech1342]

Brilliant!

[@Aircrewinterview]

Cheers

[@bjjace1]

Talking about doing “ Mach 2” like it’s nothing. Easy as drinking a beer. Great Stuff.

[@shainemaine1268]

Was there ever a '104 w/a different engine type than the GEJ79?

[@snape1464]

Q: Tell me about it's weakness? A: It has none Awesome

[@user-xb6fl9ri6g]

Thanks War Thunder for bringing me here, the Starfighter is fun as hell - And thanks for this great interview :)

[@Aircrewinterview]

Great to hear you enjoyed it :)

[@64wy4x8s]

14:40 His thoughts on the nickname of 'widowmaker' and whether it's appropriate.

[@roddymoore]

nice he mentioned Gen. Steinhoff.

[@nyttag7830]

Great.

[@mohawksniper79]

Very cool 👍🏼🤠🇨🇦

[@kevinmello9149]

The U.S. lost the Korean war? Couldn't escape from SA2s? Soviet SAM2 didn't deploy until long after Korea, and the U.S. definitely did not lose the war. It is refreshing to hear some positive comments about a beautiful fighter jet.

[@jennydiazvigneault5548]

Missle man runs North Korea. USA did not win, therefore they lost.

[@kevinmello9149]

Joseph Howard. sorry Joseph, South Korea still exists because the United Nations won the war. North Korea exists because China intervened, and the US didn't want to use nukes.

[@ALSNewsNow]

Truth

[@peteconrad2077]

It was a draw at best.

[@donhammer186]

Pretty sure he was referring to Viet Nam not Korea. F-86 was still in service but was unable to out run the SA2 and subsequently, relegated to CAS and some P/R.

[@0MoTheG]

I guess it was good at flying low level but that was clearly not the intended purpose. Interesting to hear it was very stable supersonically since not all century fighters were.

[@ladygodiva9461]

Sie liebten den Witwenmacher trotzdem 👍❤️

[@g2macs]

That's rare.... a 104 pilot who made it into old age.

[@mikhailgorbachev3721]

I wonder if this man would have met my Grandfather who was an ATC from 1964 to 1994 in Canada and Germany.

[@Aircrewinterview]

It sounds very likely.

[@migmadmarine]

so he got his korean war history wrong. he made no claim of being a history professor. he got to fly zippers and rhinos,and you didnt. so who is cooler? definitely NOT you.

[@jowenjv4463]

Hehe :)

[@arthurhu2290]

F-104 best understood as half a Phantom that had 2 J-79s, like F-16 is half an F-15 eagle. Similar performance, hauls less, less range.

[@sfertonoc]

Seems like calling the F104 the widow maker a great exageration. Good pilots of course always seem to make things look so easy and simple to fly when they are not

[@thetreblerebel]

Whst is he talking about SA-2s in the Korean War, and that we lost with the F86. Pretty sure it was a 10-1 ratio favoring the F86 over the MiG15

[@nodiggity9472]

"Officer: So you want to be a fighter pilot. Recruit: A Starfighter Pilot, Sir. O: And why particularly the Starfighter? R: Because Sir, I am in love with this aircraft. This magnificent engine of steal and gleam. O: That's very poetic. Please continue. R: This aerocynamic Delilah. Its uptilted wings and sidewinder rockets. Its clear curving cockpit cover, the whirling of dials and needles. The illustrious uniform of the Federal German Airforce. The click of the heels in salute, the flare of the jacket, the wide, long-skirted hang of it, and oh, the low shiny peak of the cap. O: I think that's enough. R: But Sir, the danger, and the glory of death. A young and dashing life gone up in flames. Blonde maidens weeping. To die for one's country. To set forth in a silver lance too joust with the forces of darkness. O: They don't always crash, you know. R: It would be an honour to crash in such a plane. O: To be mangled and scorched? R: To be hideously mutilated beyond the recognition of one's own mother. O: Is that makeup you're wearing? R: Makeup, Sir? O: Makeup. Makeup. You know it's what the ladies wear. R: Not.Only.Ladies.Wear.Makeup. Sir. O: Well what's that black stuff around your eyes. Is that mascara? R: All right. I can see it`s no good lying to you, sir. I confess. It is mascara. But...only a little bit. O: What on Earth for? R: It's my mother, sir. O: Your mother? R: You see my mother was the first woman to fly the Atlantic in a (pause) Gaseo Glider. O: A Gaseo Glider? R: A machine of my father's invention. You see he was too much of a professional aeronautical inventor to actually fly it himself, so my mother took it, and tried to fly it singlehanded across the Atlantic. O: And what happened? R: She...she crashed. Spun down into the sea and was never seen again. They found only her false eyelashes, floating. And so, you see, ever since I have worn mascara in her sacred memory. O: I see. R: Well sir. Do I get a plane? O: In view of the confessions you have just made, which must have taken a great deal of courage, I consider you an ideal type for the job. There's a plane for you waiting on the runway. The sergeant will give you an instruction manual on the way out. Oh, and by the way, eh, Von Trippenhoff... R: Sir? O: Don`t let the CO catch you wearing makeup on duty. At least not in uniform, understand? R: But Sir... O: Alright then. But very subtly applied, is that clear? R: I understand, Sir. O: Right on, Von Trippenhoff. R: Righty Oh, Sir.

[@0MoTheG]

Wait, they went over the open sea and were not picked up by airborne radar? The F-4 must have a large RCS and the doppler shift is a total giveaway.

[@FLJuJitsu]

The F-4 had an RCS roughly the same as a flying barn.

[@arthurhu2290]

12:48 is the goofed up story about losing the Korean War and SAMs. Only part that was true is that USAF wanted a hot fighter that would leave the MiG-15 in the dust, not knowing that by Vietnam fast F-105 still got hammered by MiG-17 (that's MiG-15 v 2.0) mostly because with 4,000 lb of iron bombs they were sitting ducks at 450 kts and escorting F-100s had no idea where the ground controlled bandits were coming from. F-104s did not last long in Vietnam because they were vulnerable to SAMs and didn't carry the ECM packages developed for Thuds. However it was said that commie intelligence knew when the Starfighters flew, the MiGs stood down.

[@Azawakh1974]

I like Zippers !!! This is beautyfull airplane !!!!

[@Sugar_K]

dat mullet though

[@molnibalage83]

I have the Statistic of German F-104 fleet bit i cannot add link to the comments.. In short, considering the lost airframe / 100k hours F-104G was jsut sligthly worse than Hungarian MiG-21 had even 21s never flew low level strike missions. In fact some variants had much worse. F-104G during the whole career about 17 airfarme / 100k hours. MiG-21F-13 42,9 MiG-21PF 18,7 MiG-21MF 10,8 MiG-21bis A 37,4 MiG-21bis AP 18,6 MiG-23MF 18,3 (inculded post Cold War period) MiG-29B (9.12) 23,4 (!!!!)

[@jayusn-et2231]

Did you even watch the video??? The stats are totally misleading. The reason for the high initial number of F-104 crashes was poorly trained pilots, bad maintenance and a brand new GE J79 jet engine!

[@arthurhu2290]

rocket with wings... fast as a bullet and turns like one.. actually looks decent in airshow aerobatics on other youtube videos. The Thunderbirds should have tried them out instead of F-105

[@milano61]

When you put on a airshow you want to keep the envelope as small as possible. The F-104 was very small and had a bigger turn radius than the F-105 so it would have been pretty hard to see with the naked eye.

[@elifkorfali012]

auw

[@Twirlyhead]

It is a great interview as usual and he's a great guy but he really didn't answer that F-104 question.

[@andybush8180]

Are you referring to the question about relative performance? If so, he gave an excellent answer. A technically informed and real-world experienced response, exactly what would been expected from someone with his background.

[@johndonaldson3619]

Erich Hartmann, the world's top-scoring fighter ace, commanded one of Germany's first post-war jet fighter-equipped squadrons and deemed the F-104 to be an unsafe aircraft with poor handling characteristics for aerial combat. In Navy service it lacked the safety margin of a twin engine design such as the Blackburn Buccaneer. To the dismay of his superiors, Hartmann judged the fighter unfit for Luftwaffe use even before its introduction

[@molnibalage83]

Stats of F-104 fleet year by year (airframe loss)/(100k hour). The values are read from a column diagram which shows the (airfrmae loss)/(10k hour) therfore can be little inaccuracy in values but clearly shows the history and debunks some urban legends. 1961 - 85 1963 - 165 (!!) 1963 - 30 (what a statistical deviation...!) 1964 - 63 1965 - 87 1966 - 30 1967 - 27 1968 - 29 1969 - 20 1970 - 29 1971 - 31 1972 - 11 1973 - 18 1974 - 16 1975 - 15 1976 - 16 1977 - 15 1978 - 20 1979 - 17 1980 - 19 1981 - 17 1982 - 24 (after being below 20 for 10+ years) 1983 - 7 (!!) Was as good as initally F-16A or F-15A 1984 - 23 (again higher the 7 was only "anomaly) 1985 - 18 The trendline goes below 20/100k but it does not reach because of the end of service and some very early bad years. The calculated average for the whole service is 33,28/100k hours but the introduction of F-104G was a bad idea the jumping from F-86 to F-104 (as Hartmann said) especially as a low level strike fighter... Average is 20/100k hours if we delete the first 5 years which was the very painful transitional period. In case only the first 3 years is deleted 25/100k is the avarge. So comparing to an F-4 and 4th gen fighters is maybe a widowmaker but comparing to Su-9 or early MiG-21s and other Soviet fighters in the era F-104G was not so a bad as many poeple think. The Soviet figthes never flew low level strike often the stat was acceptable after the first 10 years and was better what HUN had with MiG-21s even the best version. Germany acquired 914 F-104s and lost 292 of them. As fleet loss percentage this is also not bad comparing to Soviet jets. For ex. 1/3 or Su-9s were destroyed by engine fire and 1/3 chrased and they were not used for 20+ years in massive scale... EDIT, more comp: www.mediafire.com/convkey/4200/21kvaf1zsi2uo2fzg.jpg?size_id=5 HUN MiG-21s 32 pilots died in total from 83 ejections. 65 different variants of MiG-21s were lost. 32/61 = 50% GER F-104s In German service, 292 of 916 Starfighters crashed, claiming the lives of 115 pilots. 115/292 = 39% GER F-104Gs had better pilot attrition rate than HUN MiG-21s while nobody ever called widowmaker the MiG-21...

[@Aircrewinterview]

Great info. Thanks.

[@jayusn-et2231]

Did you even watch the video??? The stats are totally misleading The reason for the high initial number of crashes was poorly trained pilots, bad maintenance and a brand new GE J79 jet engine!

[@molnibalage83]

Yes, I watched. I just added more info to see the real values. The F-104 was not the real widowmaker in general. Only in some years was horrible. HUN MiG-21s 32 pilots died in total from 83 ejections. 65 different variants of MiG-21s were lost. 32/61 = 50% GER F-104s In German service, 292 of 916 Starfighters crashed, claiming the lives of 115 pilots. 115/292 = 39% www.mediafire.com/convkey/4200/21kvaf1zsi2uo2fzg.jpg?size_id=5 GER F-104Gs had better pilot attrition rate than HUN MiG-21s while nobody ever called widowmaker the MiG-21 and they never trained low level terrain following strike missions...

[@manuwilson4695]

"What's different F16?"...A BLOODY WORLD OF DIFFERENCE!...Is this guy being paid by Lockheed? 🤨

[@terifarley4770]

Americans didn't loose the Korean war with the F-86, kill ration was higher for F-86 pilots. And no one in the world had SAMs during the time of the Korean war! The SA-2 was only in service in the early 60s, not at all in Korea! The mig-15 was the only real danger for the F-86, and the F-86 fought slightly better than the Mig-15, though the Mig-15 had altitude and climb advantage. AAA was a problem for all aircraft in Korea but not a decisive element of the war! This pilot is very knowledgible about flying and the aircraft he flew, but way off on history!!

[@user-mx1nf5rf5y]

MiG-15 stopped US bombers. MiG-15 had achieved his role as bomber interceptor. After the entry of MiG-15 into the war the US stooped flying daily bomber missions over Korea and shifted to night bombing raids. There was noting F-86 could do to prevent that. It has failed as bomber escort.

[@robertmackay4613]

Сиви Соко Sabers kill ratio was 10:1. True. The Mig-15 had good performance and was more heavily armed then the F-86. But the Saber pilots had lead computing radar gunsight, better visibility in the cockpit, better hydraulics that wouldn’t lock up under excessive G, the pilots were better trained and most had combat experience fighting in WWII.

[@user-mx1nf5rf5y]

@@robertmackay4613 Its bullshit off course. Typical Goebbels like propaganda. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to confirm an air to air kill? If aviation command bases its air kill confirmation on an "word of a pilot" it is worthless. And that is exactly what US air force and navy did and still does. And they also deliberately hide their losses. Contributing them to non combat loses. In order to truly know what was the ratio of air to air combat between Mig-15 and F-86 one would have to search trough the archives of US and USSR air forces. One would have to look at flight logs and compare them.

[@GENERATOR-924]

????????

[@waswolltihr1526]

I never understood why we bought the F4 F. I mean why buy that thing in such a downgraded version that it can't even fire radar guided missiles? It got that capability later with a big upgrade program but why not get something useful from the start?

[@Exodon2020]

Îst mir auch ein Rätsel. Vor allem weil die Beschaffung ein jahr vor Markteinführung der F15 beschlossen wurde. In der Rolle, die die F4 bei der Luftwaffe übernommen hat war ihr die F15 haushoch überlegen.

[@waswolltihr1526]

Naja, ich habe weniger ein Problem mit der F4 an sich, sondern damit, dass man die kastrierte F Variante genommen hat. Warum eine Version die, bis zu ihrer massiven Kampfwertsteigerung, nur Sidewinder Kurzstreckenraketen verschießen konnte? Die F4 war dafür entworfen worden den Gegner jenseits der Sichtgrenze mit Sparrows abzuschießen und das hat ja in den späteren Jahren des Vietnamkrieges auch funktioniert. Warum also ein paar Jahre später eine Version kaufen, die nun ausgerechnet diese Waffe nicht einsetzen kann? o_O

[@jennydiazvigneault5548]

The reason why you bought it is that the USA has lots of clout and a powerful arms industry so people can't buy what makes sense or what the can make themselves , they can buy only what the USA dictates. Someone has to pay for all their equipment and development costs.

[@exn207]

@@waswolltihr1526 1. Die Sparrow hatte nach Vietnam einen sehr bescheidenen Ruf. 2. Die F-4 mit Sparrow ist mehr was für das Abfangen auf offenem Meer (Navy-Jäger!). 3. Die deutschen Jagdgeschwader sollten das bekämpfen, was den Nike- und den Hawkgürtel, sowie die britischen und US- Jäger überlebt hat. Unsere Jagdgeschwader waren "als Ausputzer" gedacht.

[@michaelgrey7854]

Lockheed did underhanded deals to sell this lemon of an aircraft to everyone. Germany would of done better to have the TSR-2. They did the best they could with it though at great cost to man and equipment.

[@ImKinoNichtSabbeln]

F-104 in Germany caused 300+ crashed F-104s (in peacetime!), 116 dead people, a gigantous bribery scandal regarding the plane's procurement. Maybe "just" survivor's bias, but calling so many killed people just "insufficiently trained" trained is rather ruthless. Not mentioning the direct fat bribery of the German minister of defence and his party, plus the complete destruction of any advices within the defence ministry in 1962 is not exactly appropriate, too, even just it's just on the machine itself. It would e like talking about space shuttles ignoring the two disasters, and the defective failure culture back then. If asking why the funds for proper pilot training was too short, the obvious answer is the minister in charge when buying the plane? You buy a weapon system, not a single item of of it and leave the deficiencies to be cleaned up by others. Did the minister went to jail for the bribery? No. He just had to step down after some pressure the the press. Then, he continued to play a key role in West German politics until his death in 1988, including ruining many chances for humanitarian concessions by the East German Leaders (e.g. to get political prisoners to get out of East Germany) by organising a privately funded loan to the otherwise bankrupt East Germany in 1982/83 so prolonging the downfall of the Berlin wall for 6 year. Why? His ego, supposedly. The final bitter pill is that his memory continues to be treated like a saint's in his home state. They even named Munich's Airport after him. Another nasty side story - initially the German airforce wanted to buy F11F-1 Super Tigers, also equipped with J79-GE3A engines or even the more powerful Rolls-Royce Avon engines, but having much larger wings and be by far more stable in slow and medium speeds, while nearly reaching the top speed (with weaker JP79 Mach 2.04). Presumably, this F11-F1 wouldn't have costed that many lives. But then, the sales team for the F-104 was more "experienced". PS: Proudly explaining that in case of emergencies when before you intend to eject first you had to reach into your pocket and fetch for a tool, place it behind your throttle were you can not see it, and pull it, before triggering your ejection seat itself is not exactly a fast nor un-cumbersome procedure in immediate emergencies. I wonder how many of the 116 pilots kicked the bucket while trying to apply this tragic-comical routine, that reminds of a Black Adder show.

[@molnibalage83]

USAF lost Korean War...? SA-2? The pilot simply confused and mixed some issues form Korea and some from Vietnam. Was no SAM at all in Korea. Was no F-86 in Vietnam at all. An USAF did not lost Vietnam...

[@BladeRicsi]

Tévedsz, elvesztették.

[@thetreblerebel]

Americans teaching germans to fly..what a joke. They got had on the crap F104. They should of settled on the the F106 or F5.

[@leahknight1230]

did this jet get the unpleasant nick name the flying coffin ?

[@sfertonoc]

leah Knight Widow Maker

[@jayusn-et2231]

Another twit who didn't actually watch the video. :-( It was the greatest Interceptor of all time, sadly it was frequently given to unskilled pilots and untrained maintenance teams and forced to perform missions it was not designed to do!!!

[@ALSNewsNow]

The US "lost" the Korean war? Not exactly, kraut.